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02:20:47 foof` [~user@lain.inunome.com] has joined #scheme 02:27:24 Checkie [5394@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 02:28:33 hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has joined #scheme 02:30:09 -!- paint [~paint@unaffiliated/paint] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:30:47 paint [~paint@unaffiliated/paint] has joined #scheme 02:40:22 xwl [~user@123.115.121.112] has joined #scheme 02:47:17 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 02:52:29 timj [~timj@e176193245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:18 -!- timja [~timj@e176194052.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:57:16 -!- timj [~timj@e176193245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:00:39 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:06:22 -!- luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:09:10 timj [~timj@e176194175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:13:13 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-244.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:17:05 acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has joined #scheme 03:17:49 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:42 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 03:23:53 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:00 acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has joined #scheme 04:06:55 eldragon: still here? 04:07:25 I found EoPL very helpful in understanding CPS transformations 04:07:36 then i could do them by hand 04:07:43 (to create my own examples) 04:10:59 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE001a70766360-CM0011aea1b818.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:11:00 Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE001a70766360-CM0011aea1b818.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:11:22 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:52 -!- Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE001a70766360-CM0011aea1b818.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:15:33 -!- cpr420 [~quassel@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:15:48 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@96-42-84-114.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 04:26:22 cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 04:30:02 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE001a70766360-CM0011aea1b818.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:36 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:38:19 what's EoPL? 04:44:48 essence of programming languages 04:44:53 essentials* 04:49:44 i find it ironic that the entire book implements in scheme, but does not implement scheme preferring some ML-like language 04:49:56 only to entirely omit how to parse the thing :-) 05:02:55 -!- _rata_ [~rata@pc-159-139-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:08:07 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 05:11:02 kar8nga [~kar8nga@91-114-236-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 05:25:40 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 05:30:04 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@91-114-236-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:28 -!- dz0004455 [~Adium@c-98-198-92-3.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:52:24 minion: memo for kercyr: see "What is a Purely Functional Language?" at by Amr Sabry, 1998 05:52:25 Remembered. I'll tell kercyr when he/she/it next speaks. 06:00:19 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@58.20.81.194] has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 06:07:15 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:57 Jafet [~Jafet@190.90.48.60.kmr02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #scheme 06:19:00 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@190.90.48.60.kmr02-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Changing host] 06:19:00 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 06:19:29 -!- xwl [~user@123.115.121.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:32 xwl [~user@123.115.121.112] has joined #scheme 06:25:56 nicktick [~nick@58.20.81.194] has joined #scheme 06:27:14 |nicktick| [~nick@58.20.84.117] has joined #scheme 06:30:12 -!- nicktick [~nick@58.20.81.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:30:23 -!- |nicktick| is now known as nicktick 06:30:32 ski: i see that you, too, are a fan of the angle-bracket-uri meme; is to avoid contamination with following punctuation? 06:47:36 -!- nicktick [~nick@58.20.84.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-254-163.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:00:22 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:17:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:26:38 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 07:48:14 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:50:31 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-254-163.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:15:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-58.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:23:55 hhomar [~hhomar@92.27.32.25] has joined #scheme 08:27:26 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 08:32:11 masm [~masm@bl15-234-14.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:34:42 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-8-138.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:35:20 I am wrapping mzscheme in rlwrap to give me command histroy. is there anything I can wrap an interpreter in to give me syntax highlighting? 08:38:04 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 08:38:31 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 08:38:55 lewis1711: Are you aware of this: http://docs.racket-lang.org/readline/ 08:40:24 eli: yes, i already have the readline issue sorted with rlwrap. would just be nice if I could get syntax highlighting 08:41:00 What's the advantage of using rlwrap? 08:41:25 (And I don't know what kind of syntax highlighting you expect to get implemented on a terminal.) 08:41:35 don't know, it's just the first solution I tried and it worked 08:41:41 up scrolls up my message history. sorted 08:42:09 well, bpython does a nice job for python, of syntax highlighting 08:43:45 If you use what I pointed at, you also get completion based on existing bindings. 08:44:53 As for that syntax highlighting, that's unrelated to readline (or rlwrap), and I don't think that there's an implementation of something similar (in racket, at least, but probably in other implementations too). 08:45:45 hmmm. maybe in emacs? 08:46:05 Emacs certainly has that. 08:46:08 In many forms. 08:46:35 DrRacket too. 08:47:38 I might try out emacs then. have used vim a bit but I generally use 'new style' editors 08:48:26 In that case you should use DrRacket; as much as I like Emacs, I wouldn't call it "new style". 08:49:39 I think it's downloading. doing a system upgrade 08:50:04 "racket-5.0-2" that looks like it 08:50:28 DrRacket is part of it. You'd just run "drracket". 08:50:53 and eh, emacs has a vi keybindings mode doesn't it? should ease transition 08:52:27 I don't know how good it is, but my impression is that the vi emulation modes for Emacs (there are several of them) are not really popular. 08:52:53 But I never used them, so that's just second hand rumors. 08:53:54 You can use Limp with Vi, by the way 08:54:00 With Vim 09:02:43 ah, I've heard of that, but I may try out this whole emacs thing:) right now I'm just using gedit and a terminal 09:28:07 alvatar [~alvatar@221.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 09:28:22 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@124-197-5-216.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:40 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:33:45 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:21 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:47:49 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@221.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:50:42 -!- Checkie [5394@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:46 Dark-Star|away [~michael@HSI-KBW-109-192-121-077.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 10:03:54 -!- Dark-Star|away [~michael@HSI-KBW-109-192-121-077.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #scheme 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:06 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:01 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:21:10 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 10:31:50 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-8-138.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:17 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:59:49 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 11:00:25 HG` [~HG@85.8.71.96] has joined #scheme 11:00:51 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #scheme 11:06:54 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.71.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:08:28 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:08 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-234-14.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:20:22 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@109-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 11:27:00 alvatar [~alvatar@106.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:37:00 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-8-138.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:37:45 say I wanted to add all the numbers from 0 to 20 up, without explicitly writing them all in a list. is there a way to "fill in the gaps? 11:38:39 something like '(1 2 .. 20) 11:38:45 lewis1711: srfi-1 has iota 11:39:06 #;2> (iota 20 1) 11:39:06 (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20) 11:39:16 nice 11:39:21 thanks 11:41:43 elderK [~kae@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 11:44:10 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-8-138.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 12:07:33 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-170-209-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:41 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-123.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:14:08 -!- qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:14:08 qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 12:20:04 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:42 greyhame [~jao@83.43.34.249] has joined #scheme 12:26:00 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 12:26:00 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:26:00 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:26:00 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 12:26:20 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:28:05 -!- qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:28:05 qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 12:28:24 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 12:29:22 chandler: ping 12:31:16 -!- greyhame [~jao@83.43.34.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:46:50 nicktick [~nick@58.20.84.117] has joined #scheme 12:47:20 Jafet1 [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:48:26 saccade_: what's srfi-1? 12:49:25 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:49:27 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 12:55:34 -!- tao| is now known as tao 12:56:07 -!- tao is now known as tao- 13:16:53 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-123.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:23:19 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:25:30 dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 13:27:26 uhh 13:27:34 in SICP they use `nil' 13:27:42 but i dont have it in mzscheme :O 13:27:52 what should i do? 13:28:19 I believe SICP should tell you the definition of nil 13:28:35 well, maybe they'll do it later 13:28:37 If it somehow doesn't, it's (define nil '()) 13:29:19 thanks 13:29:28 they havent said anything about (quote) yet 13:38:35 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@106.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:40:19 alvatar [~alvatar@106.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 13:41:32 tao-: then: (define nil (list)) 13:42:00 tao-: but sicp is not a book to teach you scheme, so it's not a big deal if they or you use something in scheme that has not been presented yet. 13:42:10 Never thought of that, but then this is all pedagogical nonsense 13:42:34 If you're a purist type, I'm not sure if it uses (list) by that point anyway 13:43:02 Jafet: again, SICP is not a book to teach you Scheme! 13:43:13 SICP teaches you the Structure and the Interpretation of Computer Programs. 13:43:28 (Or at least, it purports to) 13:43:31 It may assume you're grown up enough to be learning scheme by yourself (using scheme teaching books). 13:43:46 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@106.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43:59 Do you consider it a "scheme teaching book"? 13:44:06 Not at all. 13:44:11 Ok. 13:44:15 -!- alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:23 alvatar [~alvatar@106.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 13:44:27 The proof is that there are several sites such as: http://www.codepoetics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Topics:SICP_in_other_languages 13:44:28 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yvqsht 13:44:35 ;-) 13:44:49 SICP teaches general principles. 13:45:14 It uses scheme because with it they don't have to spend half the semester to teach a programming language, just to present general principles. 13:45:35 I would call it a constructive proof, but for the fact that most of them aren't constructed yet 13:45:44 Hah, there's one for C++. 13:46:06 pjb: i agree 13:46:12 C++?? 13:46:18 Of course, for most languages, the limitations of the languages prevent them to be complete, notably toward the end of the book :-) 13:46:20 code must look really ugly 13:46:43 That would be a very long chapter 5, at least. 13:47:02 masm [~masm@2.80.159.127] has joined #scheme 13:47:02 hah 13:47:18 well 13:47:26 once you've got it in scheme 13:47:33 it's not that hard to make it in perl 13:47:36 .. so far 13:48:11 Unfortunately, you have little precedent; there isn't a perl written in perl. 13:48:35 Acme::Perl 13:48:51 http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/Acme-Perl-VM-0.006/ 13:48:57 not sure about the status of that 13:49:00 but 13:49:19 well, perl's syntax is "harder" than S-expressions 13:49:48 There is no effective algorithm to parse perl. 13:50:03 umm 13:50:06 So yes, that's true in a fairly strong sense. 13:50:22 what do you mean "effective" 13:50:36 algorithms can be compared by effectiveness 13:50:48 but you cant say "this algorithm is effective" 13:50:50 In the sense established by Turing, 1929. 13:50:59 it might be more effective than others 13:51:43 There is no algorithm that runs in a finite time and accurately determines whether any perl program would parse or not. 13:52:15 Oh 13:52:22 yeah, there was a study 13:52:38 but since perl is a scripting language i dont think it's that bad 13:55:17 alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:57:32 acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has joined #scheme 13:57:36 -!- elderK [~kae@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:00:32 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-144.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:01:41 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:55 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:17:00 davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has joined #scheme 14:24:00 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:25:55 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:36 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-144.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:41 dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:35:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:32 Hmm 14:35:42 why Racket is doing this? 14:35:42 > (cons 3 (list 1 2 3)) 14:35:42 (3 1 2 3) 14:35:42 > (cons (list 1 2 3) 3) 14:35:43 ((1 2 3) . 3) 14:35:58 i want to get (1 2 3 3) :/ 14:36:13 Because it's what lists are 14:36:46 (1 2 3) is equivalent to (1 . (2 . (3 . nil))). Work out the rest 14:36:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 14:37:06 umm 14:37:20 but why the output is visually different 14:37:21 ? 14:37:37 oh 14:37:38 I don't understand the question. 14:37:39 nvm 14:37:45 sorry, i got it 14:39:15 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:32 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:59:01 -!- aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:59:03 acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has joined #scheme 14:59:53 Can someone tell me please what's wrong with this code: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=26573#a26573 ? 15:01:11 sjamaan: Pong! 15:01:41 tao-: Have a look at the line that begins `((cons'. 15:02:02 That's a rather strange zipper. 15:03:02 chandler: oh 15:03:03 thanks 15:03:15 for some reason i thought that i had to do this because of (if 15:03:18 chandler: I think there's a small bug in the python parser of lisppaste. If you move the :normal transition to below all the others, it starts highlighting things like "def" which it doesn't otherwise 15:03:32 chandler: See http://anonymous:@chicken.wiki.br/svn/chicken-eggs/release/4/colorize/coloring-types.scm 15:03:33 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/24dv6kw 15:03:59 tao-, consider what happens when b is empty 15:04:04 Jafet: well, it's not optimised 15:04:07 and yeah 15:04:12 |a| == |b| 15:04:15 That's not optimisation, that's correctness. 15:04:40 That's because :normal first matches alphanumerics (*c-begin-word*) and that matches, so it doesn't fall through to "def" 15:04:48 Yes, I understand, but I imply that (length a) == (length b) 15:05:05 chandler: Search for "Bugfix" in that file and you'll see 15:07:29 sjamaan: Ah. I see. (I can't believe you ported this mess to Scheme!) 15:07:35 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-54-82-251-111-19.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:07:37 :) 15:07:56 I'm happy since now I can do syntax highlighting on a shitload of languages for free! 15:08:06 Also, please feel free to rewrite all of lisppaste in Chicken. Really! 15:08:21 I had a look at the slatex/tex2page highlighting code and it was much, much worse! 15:08:48 (plus it could only do Scheme) 15:09:13 hm, I don't think I'll rewrite all of lisppaste; my immediate goal is to get highlighting for qwiki ;) 15:10:04 OK, the bug fix should be integrated in lisppaste now. 15:10:26 cool 15:11:36 I don't actually know Python, so this colorize definition obviously came from someone else. That's probably why I didn't notice the bug. 15:11:52 I see 15:12:33 I noticed you're using a few more descriptive classnames like "function" and "variable" in Haskell and Erlang. Maybe it's good to move those to the Lisps too 15:12:50 Those are also from other people :-) 15:12:58 (dunno how hard that would be, I just noticed the inconsistency) 15:14:00 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:19:36 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@24.149.57.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:11 chandler: BTW, would you like me to update the copyright year to 2003-2010? Right now it says just 2003 (from your LICENSE file) 15:28:55 Oh, yes, that's probably more accurate. 15:29:18 I couldn't care less about that stuff as long as nobody sues me, honestly. 15:31:27 Sure, but since I'm using your code I'd like to give proper credit 15:43:22 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:06 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 15:50:24 -!- nicktick [~nick@58.20.84.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:52 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:12:20 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:08 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5A4EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:31:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:39:32 thanks toast` 16:49:32 aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has joined #scheme 16:55:23 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.159.127] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:00:10 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:01:15 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:56 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:44 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:11:23 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:13:03 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 17:15:10 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:46 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:44 dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:02:58 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:19 somnium [~user@adsl-65-188-109.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:22 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 18:06:13 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:08:43 given a procedure like (lambda (t k) (if (symbol? t) t (context (k t)))), is there a way to remove the explicit k and use call-cc to embed the result? 18:09:52 tsk, should be (if ... (k t) ...) 18:19:02 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #scheme 18:20:14 somnium: Notice that call/cc takes a function with an explicit k parameter. 18:20:23 somnium: so how do you imagine removing it? 18:31:46 pjb: f t k -> if (pred t) (k t) (embed-in-context k t) 18:31:55 is there a function like 18:32:23 f t -> if (pred t) t (call-cc (/k -> ... (embed-context ...))) that is equivalent? 18:33:09 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:33 -!- hhomar [~hhomar@92.27.32.25] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 18:34:35 dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:35:59 I thought it would be simple to convert some cps style code to use call/cc but Ive really confused myself, though I guess its academic since the cps version works fine 18:40:39 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:41:50 Matrox [~Matrox@h26n2fls32o895.telia.com] has joined #scheme 18:43:51 somnium: notice again that the continuation given as k to f is not the same as the one built by this call-cc call... 18:43:59 -!- cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:44:37 somnium: so the answer could be, that no, there is no function like call-cc that would take a continuation from a different call point. 18:49:56 -!- Matrox [~Matrox@h26n2fls32o895.telia.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:49:56 Matrox [~Matrox@unaffiliated/matrox] has joined #scheme 18:50:13 pjb: ok, I think that makes sense. Thanks for helping. 18:50:47 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 18:51:06 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:02:49 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.184] has joined #scheme 19:04:34 cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 19:06:39 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:25:21 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:25:54 *jcowan* appears and all that jazz 19:29:05 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-54-82-251-111-19.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:14 mathk [~mathk@83.158.144.38] has joined #scheme 19:30:04 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:44 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:24 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:57:42 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.184] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 20:00:05 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 20:07:06 how many registers does the abstract machine of Scheme have them? 20:08:10 program-counter, return-to, stack-top, etc. 20:08:18 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:45 which abstract machine? 20:08:46 *offby1* glances around nervously. 20:09:08 r6rs's semantics appendix? 20:09:09 toast`, from Scheme for interpretation of the bytecodes of Scheme. 20:09:30 bytecodes of scheme? 20:09:43 ... mitscheme specifically? 20:09:59 the one used in SICP 20:10:04 ah, gotcha 20:11:40 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:13:10 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:31:47 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-202.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:34:19 jcowan_ [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:37:40 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:38:40 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:38:43 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:22 dz0004455 [~Adium@c-98-198-92-3.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:45 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 20:57:47 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:57:47 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 20:59:09 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 21:00:25 hello. is anybody familiar with mscheme in r5rs-mode? i am currently trying to debug my code. and I need to know the stack-frames of a special function everytime its called. is there some instruction that can do that? 21:00:47 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:14:37 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-116-121.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:14:41 -!- jcowan_ [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:28 certainly not in R5RS 21:16:49 meh. 21:17:06 but i am using racket, offby1, just in the compatibility-mode for r5rs 21:18:41 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@106.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:18:54 and when I am producing an error I can get one 21:20:39 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:21:43 if I am throwing an error using (error ...), can I get its continuation somehow? 21:22:33 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-96-214.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:23:03 you could redefine "error", I suppose 21:23:38 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-96-214.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:31 you might be able to do something sneaky with one of #%app #%datum #%top #%top-interaction #%require #%provide 21:25:44 #%require is good for doing sneaky stuff in the R5RS language. 21:25:51 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-116-121.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 21:26:01 Just watch out for those mutable pairs! 21:26:04 yeah, you could e.g. import an "error" procedure :-| 21:27:13 -!- Matrox [~Matrox@unaffiliated/matrox] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:36 Matrox [~Matrox@h26n2fls32o895.telia.com] has joined #scheme 21:28:58 offby1, chandler: is this #%-stuff documented anywhere. i just have some "mzscheme reference manual" and cant find it there. 21:29:57 http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/require.html?q=%23%25require#(form._((quote._~23~25kernel)._~23~25require)) 21:30:09 *offby1* kicks rudybot 21:30:21 rudybot: doc #%require 21:30:29 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/require.html#(form._((quote._~23~25kernel)._~23~25require)) 21:31:11 rudybot: doc #%app 21:31:12 schoppenhauer: your sandbox is ready 21:31:12 schoppenhauer: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/application.html#(form._((lib._scheme%2Fbase..ss)._~23~25app)) 21:31:23 rudybot: doc Holiday 21:31:23 *offby1: not found in any library's documentation: Holiday 21:31:35 rudybot: Reese Witherspoon 21:31:35 *offby1: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 21:31:44 rudybot: Don't you know anything? 21:31:45 *offby1: thus why i mentioned the mirrors, solar furnaces are easy to build, simple to control temperature and hot enough for pretty much anything 21:32:16 *eli* slaps rudybot's brain 21:32:37 *offby1* suspects Mr Eli could answer Mr schoppenhauer's question 21:34:43 *eli* follows mister offby1's hint and reads back. 21:35:39 schoppenhauer: here's how you can get a working "error" procedure in R5RS: http://gist.github.com/454359 21:35:50 you can probably smuggle in anything you like that way. 21:36:08 mr schoppenhauer: see this for a description of `#%require' http://docs.racket-lang.org/r5rs/r5rs-mod.html#(part._.Non-.R5.R.S_.Bindings_from_r5rs) 21:36:37 mr schoppenhauer: this is because racket's r5rs language is very strictly r5rs. 21:37:19 eli: actually I have an "error"-procedure ... 21:37:44 I hereby suggest that all nick mentions in this channel be prefixed with "mr". This will make #scheme feel like star trek, and schemers will immediately become much more popular. 21:37:58 I concur, Doctor 21:38:17 Space Cadet keyboards for all! 21:38:20 schoppenhauer: mzscheme might have a "what's my call stack" function that you could smuggle in, too. 21:38:22 That's Doctor Doctor to you. 21:38:26 mr eli: what I dont have (and what I need) is some sort of possibility to jump back into the code after that error. i.e. to get stack-dumps without having to stop my program. 21:38:36 Aye-aye, Major Major 21:39:06 schoppenhauer: that sounds doable ... 21:39:38 mr schoppenhauer: Look at the racket logs, there was some recent thread that talked about how to view a stack dump without throwing an error. But that will be well outside of r5rs. 21:40:00 mr eli: something like call/cc inside error? that does the actual error? maybe? 21:40:17 *eli* looks 21:41:00 mr rudybot: eval (continuation-mark-set->context (current-continuation-marks)) 21:41:07 *eli* slaps mr rudybot 21:41:17 I don't think that's going to work, eli. 21:41:20 rudybot: eval (continuation-mark-set->context (current-continuation-marks)), mister 21:41:21 eli: your sandbox is ready 21:41:21 eli: error: eval:1:61: unquote: not in quasiquote in: (unquote mister) 21:41:30 rudybot: eval (continuation-mark-set->context (current-continuation-marks)) -- 'mister 21:41:31 eli: error: reference to undefined identifier: -- 21:41:34 rudybot: eval (continuation-mark-set->context (current-continuation-marks)) - 'mister 21:41:35 eli: ; Value: mister 21:41:41 rudybot: eval (continuation-mark-set->context (current-continuation-marks)) 21:41:42 eli: ; Value: ((call-with-limits . #(struct:srcloc # 329 0 13226 1825)) (call-with-custodian-shutdown . #(struct:srcloc # 379 0 15219 326)) (call-with-break-parameterization . #(struct:srcloc # 158 2 5093 519)) (loop . #(struct:srcloc # There. 21:42:22 Just need some code to beautify it. See the docs for what's in there. 21:46:55 see http://gist.github.com/454359 for a totally gross way of writing racket inside R5Rs (namely, by smuggling in every identifier you need, via #%require, as chandler suggested {don't blame me, he made me do it}) 21:48:25 I did what now? 21:48:33 The devil made him do it 21:52:27 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-98-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:31 so, racket-5.0-src-unix.tgz expands to plt-5.0, does that qualify as a bug? 21:56:46 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:00:20 eli: well thanks. I think this already helps me (though mzscheme just crashed -.- but i saw a bit) 22:04:05 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:42 somnium: Yes. But if you can just mail me directly, it will be easier. 22:09:07 hotblack231 [~jh@p4FC5BFCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:10:53 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5A4EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:01 eli: roger wilco 22:12:49 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 22:19:39 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 22:19:40 -!- dz0004455 [~Adium@c-98-198-92-3.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:06 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-60-82-254-245-34.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:04 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-254-163.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:30 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 22:35:06 -!- hotblack231 [~jh@p4FC5BFCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:14 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-244-249.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:56 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:11 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:22 edlinde [~edlinde@cpc2-sgyl9-0-0-cust659.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 22:51:17 hi, I am trying to get the hang of recursion and I was recommended the little schemer to read but the very first chapter starts talking about some lisp concepts like atom etc? 22:51:32 was wondering if someone else has read this book and how I can go about reading it? 22:52:43 any suggestions how I can get started? 22:53:09 go for mccarthys 22:53:12 lol 22:53:46 sepult: whats that? 22:53:53 you'll feel like in dream scene where lot's of beatiful ('s and )'s rushing by 22:53:58 lol 22:54:14 hmm 22:54:21 edlinde: What is it that troubles you? 22:54:39 or read curch's alma mater 22:54:52 Riviera: how the book dives straight into a whole bunch of examples without explaining what atom means for example? 22:55:01 edlinde: That's how it works. 22:55:11 edlinde: Do you know web comics? 22:55:24 nope 22:55:27 edlinde: Cartoons? That could be funny? If the idiotic author just had left out the last panel? 22:55:30 edlinde: okay. 22:55:40 I haven't done any functional programming before 22:55:44 :) 22:55:57 edlinde: I meant .. comics, funny things, not really related to programming ;-) 22:56:05 edlinde: Or jokes, how jokes are ruined by too verbose explanations :) 22:56:06 ok yeah what about comics? 22:56:23 edlinde: Just said it: How cartoons often are ruined by too verbose explanations. 22:56:29 edlinde: Anyway, nevermind that. 22:56:31 denotational logic, it begins with 22:56:32 Riviera: do you know the book I am referring to? 22:56:40 with some history background 22:56:42 edlinde: :) 22:56:52 edlinde: I'll say what I have to say about it. 22:57:16 edlinde: The idea that's used in the book is that your mind makes the explanations 22:57:18 yeah but you still don't seem to be answering my question 22:57:27 and at the end you'll know what it means to be well formed 22:57:33 edlinde: that the relations between concepts are not to be read, but to be understood. 22:57:37 err well-formed 22:57:38 which was do i need some prior understanding of scheme before reading this book? 22:57:39 lol 22:57:46 edlinde: No, you don't. 22:57:52 ^^ 22:57:57 k 22:58:00 edlinde: Welcome. 22:58:25 But it might very well be that you and the book are not compatible. 22:58:25 doesn't look very welcoming at all 22:58:42 Which I strongly get the feeling. 22:58:57 and the footnote design is very erm yes interesting 22:58:59 I tried to explain things, you did not appear to want to listen. 22:59:35 I might be wrong, of course, but the basic idea here is that you also don't really want to sink into the book. 22:59:59 I would love to if I understood what he was trying to say 23:00:12 edlinde: It's like: 23:00:18 edlinde: What's 2 + 1? 23:00:21 edlinde: What's 4 + 1? 23:00:24 edlinde: What's 10 + 1? 23:00:30 edlinde: What's x + 1? 23:00:48 edlinde: The book uses questions and more questions again to sharpen the idea of what e. g. an atom is 23:01:01 ok 23:01:19 so what about that code in the preface secion 23:01:25 edlinde: it's normal that you cannot answer the questions when they first appear 23:01:27 defining the atom in scheme 23:01:39 ah ok 23:01:46 Which book are we talking about here? 23:01:52 edlinde: but it will become more clear when you just read on 23:01:57 askhader: The Little Schemer 23:02:15 coz the very first question is "is it true that this is an atom?" 23:02:39 edlinde: yes, read on, it should take less than 1 more page to understand what they mean by that 23:02:43 ok let me give it a shot... I just assumed that you need to know what an atom is in scheme 23:02:52 k cool 23:02:52 no no, you don't 23:02:54 :) 23:03:01 phew :) 23:03:02 Is this book available for free? 23:03:07 the will happen over and over again 23:03:12 they always introduce new concepts like that 23:03:19 just ... allow it to happen ;) 23:08:59 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-116-121.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:11:39 what are S-expressions? 23:11:54 Riviera: yeah its getting clearer how you build from an atom to list etc 23:12:03 its not that hard :) 23:12:56 hehe 23:13:06 ? 23:13:12 S-expressions? 23:13:16 edlinde: it's explained ... just read on ;) 23:13:18 can they be an atom or a list? 23:13:26 ah the mystery 23:13:28 :) 23:13:43 -!- mmc [~michal@cs181176076.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:06 mmc [~michal@cs181176076.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 23:18:45 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:20:19 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 23:21:50 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:26 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:32:03 -!- timj is now known as timja 23:36:04 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:43 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-200-215.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:38:34 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 23:39:03 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:24 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:43:41 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:18 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 23:44:44 -!- Matrox [~Matrox@h26n2fls32o895.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54:43 ktzqbp [~ktzqbp@unaffiliated/ktzqbp] has joined #scheme