00:01:18 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:21 Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #scheme 00:13:41 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:15:53 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 00:16:03 pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has joined #scheme 00:20:42 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:23 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.69] has joined #scheme 00:38:25 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@120.152.126.55] has joined #scheme 00:50:02 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-5-234.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:23 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 00:55:29 hey, nice: http://www.baptiste-wicht.com/2010/05/oracle-pushes-a-first-version-of-closures/ 00:55:30 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/348s7kz 00:56:06 *foof* misses closures 00:56:17 i might have to take another look at java, one of these days; they're lambda syntax is parenthesis-rich and explicit return continuations are optional: int i3 = #(int x)( x + 1 ).(3); 00:56:25 foof: in c-land for too long, now? 00:56:26 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-237.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 00:56:50 I spent a couple hours trying C++ tricks to get scandir to work with some sort of local function (not even a full closure). 00:57:00 gcc allows nested functions in C, but not C++ 00:58:24 ultimately I had to just use global variables with a TODO: write my own scandir to allow an extra "cookie" argument on the filter 00:59:20 to avoid such disappointment in the future i think i'll push for removing closures from scheme in WG1 01:00:32 huhu 01:00:56 duh? McEnroe had it right.... 01:01:12 "You cannot be serious?!!" 01:02:02 :) 01:09:14 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:09:59 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:12:39 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:16 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:13:31 ktzqbp [~ktzqbp@unaffiliated/ktzqbp] has joined #scheme 01:17:46 -!- ktzqbp [~ktzqbp@unaffiliated/ktzqbp] has quit [Client Quit] 01:19:11 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:59 shofetim [~user@97-121-217-56.blng.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:18 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:49 -!- prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has quit [Quit:   .] 01:30:31 -!- pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:57 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:38:56 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-76-124-164-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 01:43:45 it's 2010, and languages are finally catching up to 1958 01:47:36 now, we only need a new run-time that like unix manages to accidently outrun end of the world by 37 years. 01:51:14 pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has joined #scheme 01:53:55 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:54:48 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:28 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:05:38 hey ho to all 02:05:57 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:06:57 Howdy, jcowan. 02:07:00 doesn't chicken have more modules than PLT? 02:07:24 It's possible, especially if you count all the CHicken 3 ones that haven't been updated. 02:07:53 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:11:11 oh dear ... i thought we had @ least got to 1963 - I'm so disappointed ;-) 02:14:44 ;-) 02:18:22 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@120.152.126.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:20:20 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:21:29 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:35 luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has joined #scheme 02:26:42 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 02:27:40 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:22 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 02:45:02 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:45:02 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.149.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:45:48 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 02:48:46 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Client Quit] 02:51:34 prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 02:52:42 timj__ [~timj@e176196187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:14 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 02:56:02 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176193029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:56:31 -!- luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 02:56:39 jcowan, arcfide: feel free to modify the ballot page with your fixes directly 03:00:20 -!- toxygen [~toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:00:36 toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has joined #scheme 03:03:16 foof: Thanks. 03:16:42 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:31 HexRex [~hex@c-24-245-20-150.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:18:21 -!- HexRex [~hex@c-24-245-20-150.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #scheme 03:25:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:26:10 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:26:34 -!- pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:28 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:36:15 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:12 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@adsl-99-75-48-11.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:41 -!- toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:40:44 toxygen [~toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has joined #scheme 03:42:02 -!- foof [~user@lain.inunome.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:16 foof [~user@lain.inunome.com] has joined #scheme 03:43:26 -!- jao [~jao@126.Red-88-22-186.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:19 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:18 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:50:36 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 03:52:26 offby1: A simpler alternative to a custom port is to write a simple I/O function, and run on a thread through a pipe. 04:04:49 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 04:17:55 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:09 copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.5.83] has joined #scheme 04:28:33 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-106-111.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 04:29:11 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 04:40:43 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:47:46 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:01:35 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.222] has joined #scheme 05:04:52 incubot: i'm giddy with sleeplessness and work; please regale me with tales of rome and testosterone. 05:04:55 someday you and I'll both get our drink on and regale each other with tales ;) 05:05:04 heh 05:09:16 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:11:16 -!- sepult [~user@cable-195-14-196-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:11:19 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 05:11:42 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:18:31 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:13 rome and testosterone? 05:20:19 that sounds a bit excessive, klutometis 05:23:35 do you like gladiator movies? 05:23:44 me personally? no 05:24:20 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #scheme 05:24:52 not you, i was talking to the little boy 05:25:04 oh, I see 05:25:16 klutometis: have you ever been in a... in a Turkish prison? 05:31:15 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:48 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:52 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:40:42 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 05:41:04 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 05:53:02 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-73-34.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:07:30 rmrfchik [~rmrfchik@linuxhacker.ru] has joined #scheme 06:09:23 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:09:32 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 06:16:49 HG` [~HG@xdslel052.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 06:18:32 -!- WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-40-30.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:20:24 WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-40-30.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:23:16 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@135-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:27:53 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:31:40 -!- prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has quit [Quit:   .] 06:37:29 AndroUser [~androirc@6.sub-70-221-185.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 06:38:36 huh 06:38:45 -!- AndroUser [~androirc@6.sub-70-221-185.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:21 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 06:59:01 phao [~phao@189.107.129.104] has joined #scheme 06:59:53 ktzqbp [~ktzqbp@unaffiliated/ktzqbp] has joined #scheme 07:01:29 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.129.104] has left #scheme 07:12:08 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:45 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 07:15:21 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-73-34.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:25 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:49 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:20:19 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 07:21:13 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:30:45 masm [~masm@bl15-79-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 07:36:13 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 07:40:53 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:40 how annoying - ubuntu provides an /etc/mime.types entry for .dat :/ 07:48:56 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:49:40 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:51:13 -!- ktzqbp [~ktzqbp@unaffiliated/ktzqbp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:15:34 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:19:06 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[~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:50 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 09:44:54 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:12 StucKman [~mdione@lakshmi.inria.fr] has joined #scheme 09:55:14 -!- StucKman [~mdione@lakshmi.inria.fr] has left #scheme 10:00:31 Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #scheme 10:01:24 Hello, what does (and 1 2) mean in semantically 10:05:45 in scheme there is only one way to express false in a boolead sense: #f everything else will resemble truth 10:06:51 you mean 2 means #t ? 10:06:59 or 0 10:09:06 everything other than #f means #t 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:23 thanks 10:15:54 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:18:46 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 10:25:12 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 10:25:22 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:28:19 -!- mujaheed [~user@c-98-248-43-183.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:39 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 10:38:34 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:40:08 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 10:43:39 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 10:51:52 rudybot: eval (and 1 (display 2)) 10:51:54 sladegen: your sandbox is ready 10:51:55 sladegen: ; stdout: "2" 10:52:27 rudybot: eval (and 1 (and 2)) 10:52:27 sladegen: ; Value: 2 10:52:55 rudybot: eval (or 1 (display 2)) 10:52:55 sladegen: ; Value: 1 10:53:36 incubot: where is the coffee when you need its value? 10:53:41 small question regarding the earlier discussion about the extra word for the hash-value 10:54:19 whel hash would be even better, though more confusing. 10:56:55 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 10:58:45 luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has joined #scheme 10:59:03 -!- Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Quit: It's not my problem.] 11:04:14 rbarraud [~rbarraud@60-234-227-144.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #scheme 11:07:13 jao [~jao@126.Red-88-22-186.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:10:12 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:25:51 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.121.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:12 copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.121.196] has joined #scheme 11:31:20 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:39 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:44 alvatar [~alvatar@59.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:37:19 -!- copumpkin 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16:03:51 -!- pjb [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:22 alvatar [~alvatar@64.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:07:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:46 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 16:21:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:23:07 Does MIT Scheme have some sort of finalizer or guardian mechanism? 16:25:14 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:28:15 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@64.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:26 -!- xwl [~user@123.115.125.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:13 alvatar [~alvatar@250.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:40:42 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:41:26 foof: ping 16:44:30 -!- 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left #scheme 18:58:56 incubot: Have you been missing me? 18:59:00 C structs have order? 19:09:43 alvatar [~alvatar@250.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 19:19:16 ws [wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl] has joined #scheme 19:22:58 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.79] has joined #scheme 19:24:36 incubot: what no order has exists not. 19:24:39 BTW, in case there exists at least one other person out there using Larceny (which is my fav), I have some code (a pile of crap at this time) here. Focusing on Threads, Sockets, SXML, SXPath, SSAX. http://squire.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/squire/trunk/src/scheme/io/net/sockets.sls?revision=105&view=markup 19:24:39 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/35jbj4 19:25:01 crap 19:26:10 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:22 arcfide [~arcfide@99.75.51.152] has joined #scheme 19:33:22 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:36:40 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:55 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:45:00 Any chicken users around here? 19:45:49 i ate a good portion of one yesterday 19:49:08 grilled? 19:49:15 o/ 19:49:18 baked 19:49:33 Mmm, baked chicken user?! :) 19:49:53 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 19:50:29 *mejja* prepares a small fire 19:51:03 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #scheme 19:51:33 arcfide: Did you have a question for chicken users? 19:52:38 merimus [~makin@office.vivisimo.com] has joined #scheme 19:54:02 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 19:57:50 langmart` [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 19:57:54 FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-33-95.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:57:54 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:24 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 20:00:56 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-95.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-249-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:45 sjamaan: Hehe, actually, for a lot of Scheme implementations. I'm trying to get a feel for feature support for Hashtables, Key and value weak hashtables, Weak Pairs, and guardians. 20:03:16 Basically, I'm trying to figure out what implementations support which features and how. 20:03:40 I have no idea what those are, except hashtables :) 20:03:54 Chicken has something in its documentation but it says that the weak option is ignored? 20:03:55 Chicken supports srfi-69 for hashtables, in core 20:04:14 Hashtables are the standard hashtables. Key-weak hashtables are hashtables whose keys are held weakly. 20:04:26 A Weak reference is a reference that doesn't prevent the GC from collecting an object. 20:04:37 I see 20:04:38 So if an object is referenced only by weak references, a GC could collect that object. 20:04:48 I think Chicken doesn't support that 20:04:54 Weak pairs have a weak reference in their CAR, usually. 20:05:14 I gathered that much from your description of weak hashtables 20:05:16 And Guardians/finalizers/ephemerons, and so forth are another sort of control or hook into the way the GC deals with objects. 20:05:28 Chicken does have finalizers 20:05:50 Never heard the term "guardians" before 20:06:20 ephemerons sound way kooler anyway! 20:06:22 Guardians are a another way of doing something similar to finalizers. You can implement one in terms of the other. 20:06:39 sladegen: They are not widely implemented at all, I think. From my understanding, only PLT has them. 20:06:50 What do they do 20:06:51 ? 20:06:54 I don't know. :-) 20:06:55 Heheh. 20:06:58 :) 20:06:58 I only use guardians. 20:07:36 Right now I went through the chicken manual and I think that chicken supports weak boxes, finalizers, and regular hashtables, but I don't see any support for weak hashtables of any sort. 20:07:36 i think they have something to do with concurrency/threads... /me noticed them in Riastradth /tmp 20:07:58 sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-249-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:08:21 hi! 20:08:33 arcfide: Where did you read about weak boxes? 20:08:42 sjamaan: Um, somewhere..... 20:08:47 Hehe, I did a search for the term weak. 20:08:49 ah ok 20:09:24 I think strictly speaking, with guardians (or the like), weak pairs or boxes, and tables, you can implement weak hashtables. 20:11:04 I've been doing all the time until now all my algorithms avoiding mutation. But now I have one that I really don't know how to do without mutations, and is easy with mutations 20:11:31 but my question is: what happens in scheme when you set! one of the args? 20:11:38 instant death 20:11:49 is it modifying the value outside the function? or is it a local copy? 20:11:57 it's a local copy 20:12:31 turbofail: ô_o what do you mean by instant death? 20:12:35 er... well, maybe "local copy" isn't the best way of putting it 20:12:37 turbofail: a local copy... 20:12:38 If it's a pair and you use set-car!/set-cdr! it will set the actual value, not the copy 20:12:42 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 20:13:09 sjamaan: it's a list, but which values are copied and which aren't? 20:13:26 i've tested and it doesn't seem to change it, but I'd like to know the "general rule" for this 20:13:32 alvatar: It's a value that refers to a cons cell 20:13:47 If you set! the value, it will just change the value (which is local to the function) 20:14:09 But if you set! the cell's contents it will change the actual cell, to which multiple variables can point 20:14:27 ssshhh! don't mention mutable conses! 20:15:09 alvatar: It is similar to how pointers work in C; if you pass a pointer to a function you can change the value of the pointer and it won't change the caller's version of that value. If you dereference and change the contents of the memory pointed to, it will be seen by the caller too 20:15:12 paste! 20:15:18 !paste 20:15:21 -!- merimus [~makin@office.vivisimo.com] has left #scheme 20:15:22 lisppaste: url? 20:15:23 !"·$!"·$ 20:15:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 20:17:40 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:18:40 alvatar pasted "set! the args" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/111045 20:19:16 well, the idea is made up, but hopefully you've seen something like this before and you can even show me how to do this functionally 20:19:17 alvatar what is the output? 20:19:35 '(a ((b c d (e f))) g) 20:19:44 ooh that's clever! 20:19:45 alvatar: E isn't a very descriptive name for a function 20:20:05 the idea is to take a skeleton and apply to any flattened list 20:20:10 sjamaan: yes, you are right 20:20:22 I've been playing with Haskell and I see a way to do this using monadics 20:20:25 sjamaan: but as they are inner functions, I tend to name them like that :S 20:20:28 but I think your way is simpler 20:20:44 alvatar: Don't do that :) 20:20:48 except that you should get rid of 'next' 20:20:49 soupdragon: interesting, and is there a name for this kind of operation? 20:21:05 there is a reasonable function on it's own which takes a list and procdues a procedure that returns its elements one by one 20:21:30 alvatar: I'm not sure, but I think you can just recur on itself. You wouldn't need E 20:22:03 (define (ticker tape) (lambda () (prog1 (car tape) (set! tape (cdr tape))))) 20:22:04 sjamaan: actually, in this version of the code I think so too 20:22:08 you might have to define prog1 for this to work 20:22:19 but the idea is that you go say, (define x (ticker '(a b c))) 20:22:24 soupdragon: prog1 is like begin? 20:22:25 then (x) ;=> a, (x) ;=> b 20:22:41 yes 20:22:48 I think this could be done with continuations also 20:23:00 (prog1 a b c) should execute the same as (begin a b c) but it should return the value of a 20:23:14 soupdragon: ah, yes, I have a macro for that ;) 20:23:17 begin0 20:23:32 alvatar, what would the value of writing this using say FOR-EACH and CWCC be? 20:24:39 soupdragon: oh, I mean that the NEXT function could be done with call/cc I think 20:24:56 well I sort of think NEXT should be erased and replaced with TICKER 20:25:02 because TICKER can be defined on its own 20:25:19 soupdragon: that's nice 20:25:20 but you are right in that both procedures could be defined using CWCC, I am just curious if there are reasons to do it that way 20:25:43 soupdragon: I don't know... I just try to avoid mutation as a constant exercise :) 20:25:57 ah that's a disease a lot of scheme programmers get at some point 20:26:22 soupdragon: hehehe :D 20:26:47 sjamaan: then, is it ok to use this set!? 20:26:48 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #scheme 20:27:07 alvatar: It is okay if you're okay with it 20:27:11 soupdragon: I've taken your code, and I'll test it 20:27:17 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.79] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:27 Of course set! is generally Frowned Upon :) 20:27:37 sjamaan: oh, I mean in which situation I'm going to change something from outside the function 20:27:46 But if it means your code is more readable with set!, by all means use it 20:27:53 soupdragon: the ticker :) 20:28:21 sjamaan: how you call the structure of a list? is it "shape"? 20:28:32 I've come up with the name skeleton, but just because I don't know the real name 20:28:56 I think skeleton is a great way to describe it 20:29:04 when I looked at your code I knew exactly what you meant by skeleton 20:29:08 skeleton is good 20:29:14 gtg 20:29:19 good! :) 20:29:24 sjamaan: thanks sjamaan 20:29:36 soupdragon: I also have the expand-skeleton procedure ;) 20:30:00 makes it all based on #t values where there should be anything 20:30:48 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 20:32:19 soupdragon: hey! your ticker function is nice, I'll definitely use it ;) 20:32:25 okay 20:33:40 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-249-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:33:55 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-105-214.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:34:02 you might also define a BATCH-TICKER which takes a number as input 20:34:06 -!- langmart` [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:07 and returns that many elements 20:34:39 soupdragon: yes I see this could be used in many ways! 20:34:40 (but then there is the question of optmization -- should it also take a cds to cons onto?) 20:34:48 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 20:34:53 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 20:34:59 (maybe that is a side track to ignore) 20:35:26 for now, I'm ignoring optimization issues in scheme, just avoiding pessimizations 20:37:11 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 20:37:59 hhe 20:38:02 soupdragon: thanks for your time! I must go now 20:38:04 o/ 20:38:05 bye 20:38:08 bye 20:38:12 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@250.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:39:57 that skeleton thing is a perfect example of a good usage for delimited continuations 20:40:16 -!- toxygen [~toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:40:30 now if only i had mentioned that a little earlier 20:42:16 toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has joined #scheme 20:44:05 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:52 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:00:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:14:39 alvatar [~alvatar@59.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 21:16:48 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/2010031700]] 21:34:18 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-105-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:40:38 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 21:44:05 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 21:45:17 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:44 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:04 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-105-214.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:52:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-105-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:00 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:54:33 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-105-214.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:55:48 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@99.75.51.152] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:38 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:57:04 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:17 arcfide [~arcfide@adsl-99-75-51-152.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:58:33 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:04:58 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@dsl081-240-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:06:37 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:06:42 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@dsl081-240-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 22:06:49 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: i want to be formal but i'm here to party] 22:10:11 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:24 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:57 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-105-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:15:20 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-105-214.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:17:38 -!- karljoh [fooki@h-73-135.A165.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:12 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-79-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:42:20 -!- ws [wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:50:17 MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:55:09 saint_cypher_ [~saint_cyp@dsl081-240-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 22:55:22 rbarraud [~rbarraud@60-234-227-144.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #scheme 22:57:36 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@dsl081-240-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:58:34 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:00:16 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-222-57.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 23:12:00 r2q2 [~motodroid@207.sub-97-40-8.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 23:12:09 hey 23:14:31 Howdy. 23:16:32 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-222-57.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:35 fine day today chandler 23:16:57 -!- r2q2 [~motodroid@207.sub-97-40-8.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:24:16 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@59.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:37:11 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@214-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:39:41 mdmkolbe-laptop [~mdmkolbe-@140-182-224-32.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 23:46:56 -!- mdmkolbe-laptop [~mdmkolbe-@140-182-224-32.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 23:53:57 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-222-57.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 23:55:05 _danb_ [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme