00:00:47 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 00:24:46 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:57 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:27:03 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:31:34 -!- nurv [nurv@62.32.135.54] has quit [] 00:37:58 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:39:51 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 00:40:01 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:48:24 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 00:57:56 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 00:58:00 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5 00:59:01 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:59:13 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 00:59:30 yeah sorry about that :( 00:59:44 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:52 not only the wrong channel, but also the wrong sequence 00:59:55 your penance is to write an R6RS compliant scheme VM 01:00:45 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:21 right now I'm tearing out my hair in frustration over a segfaulting C program already 01:02:08 gdb time! 01:02:42 bedtime I'd say 01:02:47 I'll probably only make it worse :( 01:05:57 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:06:22 daviddarais [~daviddara@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 01:06:52 -!- daviddarais [~daviddara@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has left #scheme 01:13:42 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:49 seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:33:56 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:21 -!- masm [~masm@bl5-104-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49:56 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 01:53:04 sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:59:30 MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:59:30 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:37 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:00:01 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 02:10:33 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:11:19 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:11:19 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 02:35:10 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:34 timj_ [~timj@e176195171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:55:56 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176209174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:57:43 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 03:11:31 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:16:59 phao [~phao@189.107.150.14] has joined #scheme 03:21:21 -!- MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:22:41 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:27:05 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:27:37 MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:29:25 -!- max_atreides [~max_atrei@cpe-24-168-34-229.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:34:12 _rata_: you're right, i'm hyperbolic; but python has half-ass lambdas, half-ass closures, half-ass macros (decorators), half-ass continuations (yield) 03:34:56 this sort of half-ass language design has become so endemic (q.v. php-6's and java-7's closures), that i've lost my patience 03:35:23 <_rata_> hahhhahahaaha... I agree with you, but it's better than before :) 03:35:42 <_rata_> where you had no lambdas, no closures, no macros, no continuations 03:36:05 you're probably right; and once i get into the python-groove, i can *almost* forget that it doesn't CTO; but not quite 03:36:10 TCO* 03:36:29 <_rata_> just first-order functions :P and simple data structures 03:36:33 yup 03:36:34 <_rata_> what's TCO? 03:36:41 tail-call optimizations 03:37:07 so you can recurse without growing the stack 03:37:15 <_rata_> ok :) 03:38:34 <_rata_> I think CL is not required to TCO either 03:39:03 <_rata_> I don't know about other Lisps 03:39:28 <_rata_> mmm... I think Clojure TCOs too 03:39:41 <_rata_> may TCO be used as a verb? 03:44:07 sure; "tail-call optimizeth" 03:44:16 <_rata_> :) 03:44:38 i don't think clojure does, because of limitations in the jvm that they're addressing in java 7, though 03:50:05 <_rata_> mmm... I read that clojure has a special way to tail-call optimize, but it's not as good and general as Scheme tail-call optimization 03:50:12 clojure has recur, though; which appears to be some sort of explicit TCO for self-recursion 03:50:12 <_rata_> http://clojure.org/functional_programming 03:50:18 <_rata_> yes 03:50:20 <_rata_> that 03:50:21 *offby1* waves to klutometis 03:50:42 offby1: hey, there! 03:51:05 <_rata_> well, maybe with Java 7 they will be able to do right TCO 03:51:20 <_rata_> since it's not a desing flaw, but a technical limitation 03:51:33 klutometis: it's the eeriest of coincidences that I see you here, after a long absence ... 03:51:34 <_rata_> *design 03:51:52 offby1: who had a long absence; you, i or both? 03:51:59 from my point of view, you. 03:52:10 *offby1* is at this very moment upgrading rudybot with an incubot-like function 03:52:43 offby1: oh, nice! it's funny: though i've been unintentionally absent, #scheme is never far from my mind 03:52:43 -!- MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 03:52:55 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:06 it may be the first and only magical place for me on the intarwebs 03:53:17 let's see how/if it works 03:53:26 oh poo. 03:54:10 offby1: what do you mean by "incubot-like", btw? if you encroach upon my one-trick-pony, you may force me out of my indolence! 03:54:29 crap 03:55:24 <> 03:55:38 rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 03:55:51 developed the new features against bleeding-edge PLT scheme, which I haven't yet installed on the server on which the bot runs. 03:55:57 rudybot: version 03:55:58 offby1: 04d620e 03:55:59 pity. 03:56:06 rudybot: source 03:56:07 offby1: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git 03:57:03 klutometis: I used rudybot to prod someone else out of his indolence a few months back. The bot in #emacs -- fsbot -- suddenly stopped translating phrases, because the web service on which it relied shut down the deprecated API it was using. 03:57:18 So I whipped up a translation feature in rudybot, using Google's REST API ... 03:57:34 I like to think I shamed him into fixing fsbot, but he claims he wudda anyway. 03:57:36 _rata_: i guess that's the drawback of not being in control of your VM; but dynamic invocation is supposed to be the last part of the TCO puzzle: http://blogs.sun.com/jrose/entry/dynamic_invocation_in_the_vm 03:58:20 offby1: oh, nice; does rudybot translate in here? 04:00:08 rudybot: t8 en zh does he translate 04:00:10 offby1:  04:00:35 alas, they don't seem to have provided the two-letter language code for "Elmer Fudd" 04:01:56 offby1: heh; i remember doing a google translate api in R 04:02:04 offby1: Isn't it xx-elmer? 04:02:09 Granted, not two-letter, but still. 04:02:10 i was disappointed that the esoteric language codes were undocumented 04:02:33 rudybot: t8 en xx-elmer does he translate 04:02:34 offby1: invalid translation language pair 04:02:37 :-( 04:02:58 Fail. :-( 04:03:18 klutometis: I just view source when looking at the Google preferences page. 04:03:34 rudybot: t8 en mi does he translate 04:03:35 cky: invalid translation language pair 04:03:42 What, no translation to Maori? Fail. 04:03:42 offby1: any way to do recursive translations to equilibrium a la translation party? 04:03:51 cky: good idea 04:08:01 klutometis: heh 04:08:16 klutometis: actually it'd be easy enough to write, as long as you don't mind it never terminating 04:08:34 y'know I don't believe I ever saw incubot's source; I wrote my feature based on guesswork 04:10:08 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:10:44 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:02 <_rata_> I gotta go 04:11:10 <_rata_> good bye guys :) 04:12:24 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-rmorhaixvhwxruir] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:13:02 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:41 man, it takes about a week to run a program after upgrading PLT 04:21:49 it re-renders each manual, apparently 5,000 times 04:27:24 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.150.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:30:04 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:33:05 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:46:14 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:59:54 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 05:08:41 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:09:38 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 05:11:09 -!- shrughes [~shrughes@cpe-98-155-85-124.san.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 05:14:19 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:11 -!- haesbaert [~haesbaert@c9155a20.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:24:08 -!- Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:25:52 aw, my poor bot is on an el-cheapo Xen instance with hardly any RAM; he spends all his time paging ... 05:25:57 *offby1* is wistful 05:28:34 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:30:26 brucelee [1000@c-67-180-200-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:30:38 anyone know how i can get some beginners documentation 05:30:40 something easy reading 05:30:46 on how to work scheme 05:31:37 gosh, there's lots; your biggest problem will be picking which one 05:31:49 any good ones u can recommend? :p 05:32:05 I'd start with http://docs.plt-scheme.org/quick/index.html 05:32:23 it's specific to that PLT implementation, but it might be OK 05:32:51 PLT implementation? 05:32:59 a different dialect of scheme? 05:33:53 yep 05:34:03 pretty much every implementation is its own dialect :-| 05:34:40 oh :o 05:34:41 PLT has a zillion varieties: some strictly conform to the various scheme standards; some have tons of extra features; some are really entirely different languages. 05:34:59 a lot of people seem to like "The Little Schemer", but I never did. 05:35:14 well, im trying to learn scheme for a university class 05:35:23 didnt realize theres so man ydifferent schemes 05:35:25 :P 05:35:35 presumably your class recommends a text? 05:35:43 it doesnt 05:35:49 that's strange. 05:35:53 SICP! 05:36:05 is this a programming-language survey, which only looks at Scheme for a week, or something? 05:36:12 *offby1* waves at elly 05:36:20 yeah pretty much 05:36:31 ah 05:36:50 SICP is probably overkill 05:37:04 seriously, download PLT scheme, look at that intro I pointed you at. 05:37:08 Ought to give you the flavor. 05:37:34 they use drscheme as the interpreter i think 05:37:44 ew :P 05:37:46 also, hi offby1 :) 05:38:56 brucelee: drscheme is part of PLT, so you'll be ready. 05:39:58 ok col 05:40:01 downloading as we speak 05:42:10 klutometis: hmm ... incubot seems to require the "debug" egg, but "chicken-install debug" just fails ... am I misunderstanding something? 05:43:39 -!- bipt 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[Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:32:49 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:39:21 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 09:14:36 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:27 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-orpslkrygsrpuaxq] has joined #scheme 09:24:34 <_rata_> hi 09:55:59 nurv [nurv@83.231.89.249] has joined #scheme 09:56:10 Hi. 09:59:01 -!- SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:13 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 10:07:33 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC59F3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:47 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 10:14:50 rudybot: t8 en la i went, i saw, i conquered 10:15:13 sladegen: invalid translation language pair 10:15:18 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:17:12 rudybot: t8 pl en marny ten serwis 10:17:16 sladegen: This poor service 10:18:40 offby1: i think lack of debug indicates that incubot doesn't run on shikenforou. 10:20:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:29:54 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.129.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:37 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-orpslkrygsrpuaxq] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:33:32 masm [~masm@bl7-201-26.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:34:42 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 10:50:55 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:54:21 rudybot: t8 fr en je ne parlez pas francais 10:55:05 Adamant: I do not speak french 10:56:04 rudybot: t8 pl en Ale ja mowic po polsku... 10:56:06 sladegen: But I speak Polish ... 10:56:43 phao [~phao@189.107.158.37] has joined #scheme 10:56:56 rudybot: t8 en fr crazy gibberish 10:56:57 *sladegen* i think i'll speak through rudybot from now on ;) 10:56:59 Adamant: charabia fou 10:58:02 if i only got high bit set on this terminal... 10:58:15 sladegen: t8 en gr cthulu fish 10:58:49 sladegen: just go Unicode 10:59:06 (I assume high bit is Latin-n stuffs) 10:59:23 graaah 10:59:32 rudyboy: t8 en gr cthulu fish 11:00:19 not sure how my irc client will like that... old mutt got a bit crazy and i'm too lazy to reconfigure it. 11:00:24 ah 11:00:49 UTF-8 makes everything easier 11:01:12 except for the implementators and people that have to keep bad shit out of strings 11:02:21 rudybot: t8 pl en spychologia 11:02:22 sladegen: spychologia 11:02:48 rudybot: t8 en pl pushology 11:02:49 sladegen: pushology 11:03:19 rudybot: t8 en sp Un chien andalou 11:03:22 Adamant: invalid translation language pair 11:03:51 rudybot: t8 en es Un chien andalou 11:03:53 Adamant: Un chien andalou 11:03:58 indeed 11:04:12 rudybot: t8 fr es Un chien andalou 11:04:14 sladegen: Un perro andaluz 11:04:43 rudybot: t8 es fr Un perro andaluz 11:04:45 Adamant: Un chien andalou 11:05:04 rudybot: t8 es pl Un perro andaluz 11:05:05 Adamant: Un Chien Andalou 11:05:13 rudybot: t8 es pl Un perro andaluz 11:05:15 sladegen: Un Chien Andalou 11:05:31 what? 11:05:47 rudybot: t8 es pl Un perro andaluz 11:05:49 sladegen: Un Chien Andalou 11:06:00 rudybot: t8 en fr slap rudybot upside his haid 11:06:00 xwl [~user@123.115.127.184] has joined #scheme 11:06:02 Adamant: rudybot gifle envers son Haid 11:06:15 rudybot: t8 pl en pies andaluzyjski 11:06:17 sladegen: Andalusian Dog 11:06:24 strange... 11:06:46 sladegen: the title may be the same as the French in Polish, or more likely rudyboy's creator is being goofy :P 11:06:55 or it just don't translate 11:07:24 it did translate between fr and es... 11:07:38 yeah, but it was done by a Spanish filmmaker 11:07:49 I think it had two titles originally 11:07:57 and pl en... that would be too intelligent... 11:08:03 yes 11:08:17 it does seem like more than you would expect from a lowly translation bot 11:08:34 *rudybot's creator 11:09:06 although you could have a bot named rudeboy, maybe for a Jamaican music IRC channel 11:09:59 Quaxity quuxity, TGQ's NEWIO Has many functions that No one can grok: Documentation is Incomprehensible; GLS will explain it, but Still it's a crock. 11:11:43 rudybot: t8 pl en tlumaczenie jest trudne. chodzmy na zakupy. 11:11:52 sladegen: translation is difficult. Let's go shopping. 11:12:55 rudybot: t8 en ru apres le ekranoplane, what will those wacky Slavic folks think of next? 11:12:56 Adamant:   ekranoplane,         ? 11:13:25 rudybot: t8 pl en tlumaczenie jest twarde. zakupy czekaja. 11:13:26 sladegen: translation is hard. shopping await. 11:14:10 rudybot: t8 en cz translation is hard. let's go buy Czech-made firearms! 11:14:11 Adamant: invalid translation language pair 11:14:25 bigotry, I say 11:14:26 :P 11:14:36 *Adamant* goes to look up what Czech is 11:16:57 rudybot: t8 en cs translation is hard. let's go buy Czech-made firearms! 11:16:58 Adamant: peklad je tké. Pojme nakupovat eské-made stelné zbran! 11:16:58 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 11:18:17 that doesn't seem to work for Sythnol abusers, sadly. 11:39:04 Adamant: I think that's awful. 11:39:33 ASau: sythnol is pretty awful stuff, yeah 11:40:41 I can understand Czeck translation, but I don't know Czech. 11:41:00 Russian is really awful. 11:41:14 the translation quality, you mean? 11:41:26 yes. 11:41:31 It looks dyslexic. 11:41:33 I would not be surprised 11:42:10 even the fancy-pants statistical translators are an aid to mutual understanding at best 11:42:45 the further two languages are apart from each other in origin, word borrowing, etc., the worse the translation will usually be 11:42:57 If Czech has verb modes (no idea how linguists call it, perfect v. imperfect), 11:43:02 en to fr is relatively sane 11:43:03 it may be wrong too. 11:43:28 ASau: I'm at best an amateur linguist, don't ask me :P 11:44:47 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 11:45:24 rudybot: t8 ru en        ? 11:45:44 ASau: what kind of dumb mechanical translator that? 11:46:49 Yeah, it looks like that. :) 11:46:56 rudybot: t8 en ru we should all speak Esperanto! that will definitely solve everything! 11:46:57 Adamant:     ! , , ,  ! 11:48:19 rudybot: t8 ru en     ,      . 11:48:20 ASau: We do not owe anything to anyone, and artificial languages are going to hell. 11:48:37 Ha! 11:48:41 :P 11:48:48 At least it knows archaic spelling. 11:49:35 rudybot: t8 en ru like the sages of Driving and Crying once opined, "I'm going straight to hell, just like my mamma said" 11:49:40 Adamant:      Crying   : "    ,    " 11:49:54 Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 11:50:01 oh come on, crying doesn't translate? I guess due to the 'hue and cry' usage. 11:50:43 Adamant: that was translated as "I'm going straight to hell, like I said to my mamma." 11:50:52 dzhus [~sphinx@95-27-227-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 11:50:53 lol beautiful 11:51:50 rudybot: t8 ru en       11:51:50 ASau: this translator as blunt Siberian boots 11:52:27 There's fundamental problem in grammar handling. 11:52:33 sounds like. 11:53:58 It doesn't recognize predicate. 11:54:01 rudybot: t8 en el that which sounds profound in Latin is usually just translated from the Greek, anyway 11:55:02 Adamant:             ,    11:57:20 D: 11:57:32 ? 11:57:33 my irc client broke 11:57:44 aww, sorry. do you have UTF-8 on? 11:57:47 with all those weird symbols 11:58:17 not sure I'm not on my computer atm 11:58:31 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.158.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:58:34 rapacity: cell/smartphone or other person's computer 11:59:05 I'm in a library 11:59:09 ah 11:59:17 Windows machine? 11:59:21 yep 11:59:48 I'm surprised then, I thought Windows came with some languages standard 11:59:59 for us-en 11:59:59 I'll be back. 12:00:09 ok 12:00:14 I fixed it :p 12:00:15 -!- foof [~user@lain.inunome.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:24 putty wasn't set to use utf-8 12:00:28 yeah 12:00:45 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Quit: reboot] 12:00:46 that was apparently a problem for someone else, too :P 12:01:12 lol :p 12:01:41 klutometis: also, for future reference, I think they are using the ISO 639 two-Latin-letter codes 12:01:51 or something derived from that 12:02:56 doesn't necessarily get all the obscure ones, but it's a start 12:04:02 Frq [~chatzilla@88.240.142.154] has joined #scheme 12:09:41 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #scheme 12:11:55 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 12:18:13 phao [~phao@189.107.187.63] has joined #scheme 12:23:10 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-27-227-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:49 the Windows support for languages is bizarro 12:27:59 is there any better algorithm than solving a tic tac toe game table (determininng who wins or draw) rather than useing 2 for loops and checking both rows&columns&diagonals 12:29:27 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.187.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:34:24 if it's a standard size (3x3), I'm not sure a better algorithm would get you much, unless you want it to scale up or just want to be elegant. 12:36:15 you might be able to model it as an array and just check for adjacency 12:37:24 I'm assuming you're using this after each move to check to see if someone won or drew 12:52:10 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:56 hmm ok 12:58:31 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 13:06:19 Blkt [~user@net-93-144-124-3.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 13:22:49 fschwidom [~fschwidom@p5B26C87E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:31:36 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-144-124-3.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping 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jeapostrophe] 15:10:08 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:14:10 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC59F3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:28:46 -!- Frq [~chatzilla@88.240.142.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:33:52 -!- askhader [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:58 Frq [~chatzilla@88.243.76.237] has joined #scheme 15:36:27 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 15:43:31 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #scheme 15:44:11 elderK [~zk@125-238-255-22.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 15:44:11 -!- elderK [~zk@125-238-255-22.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 15:44:49 elderK [~zk@125-238-255-22.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 15:45:02 -!- elderK [~zk@125-238-255-22.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 15:45:02 elderK [~zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 15:58:40 sladegen: Ja te cieszy si mówic "do" rudybot 16:10:50 haole [~ivan@189.34.128.18] has joined #scheme 16:11:38 hello there... i'm wondering if there is a function already implemented to take an expression, an integer - let's say n - and copies it over n times 16:12:23 like: (multiplicate 10 (some-function some-args)) ->(some-function some-args) (some-function some-args) (some-function some-args) ... 16:13:31 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:12 I think you're looking for "for-each" 16:14:17 or even "do" 16:14:21 or "named 'let'" 16:16:39 rudybot: eval (do ([x 0 (add1 x)]) ((= x 10)) (display "yep") (newline)) 16:16:43 MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:16:59 offby1, i can imagine a few ways to do it, but i educate myself to use what is already implemented so my code gets more portable 16:17:21 for-each, do, and "named let" are all already implemented. 16:17:22 but your solution is quite nice... i might use it :) 16:17:30 "do" is hideous; don't use it :) 16:17:43 took me two or three minutes, plus reading the documentation, to figure out that example 16:18:07 offby1, yeah... i'm forcing myself the functional way... until now, i've seen much more advantages than disadvantages 16:18:50 well, if I understood your original question, it was, itself, entirely _not_ functional; so i don't see that doing it the functional way makes any sense 16:19:19 if it were me, and I wanted to avoid anything non-standard, I'd do 16:19:23 rudybot: eval (let loop ([x 0]) (when (< x 10) (display "yep") (newline) (loop (add1 x)))) 16:19:30 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:31 (rudybot is thrashing so "eval" isn't workin) 16:22:26 incubot: (let loop ([x 0]) (when (< x 10) (display "yep") (newline) (loop (add1 x)))) 16:22:28 Eval 18902 timed out. 16:22:31 pff 16:24:30 incubot: (let loop ((x 0)) (when (< x 10) (display ".") (loop (add1 x)))) 16:24:32 Eval 19038 timed out. 16:24:53 Fail. :-P 16:26:08 incubot: (let loop ((x 0)) (if (< x 10) (begin (display ".") (loop (+ x 1))))) 16:26:08 ..........# 16:26:49 rudybot has been anaesthetized for a brain transplant 16:26:54 offby1, i can't make my software entirely functional... at least i think i can't, so i keep it for the important and possibly buggy parts 16:27:07 haole: good plan, actually. 16:27:23 Nobody except crazy Haskellers and MLers tries to make their software _entirely_ functional :) 16:27:50 incubot: (let ((add1 (lambda (x) (+ x 1)))) (let loop ((x 0)) (if (< x 10) (begin (display ".") (loop (add1 x))))) 16:27:50 Error: unterminated list 16:28:43 sladegen, i don't think your solution might work for my case... here is the deal 16:28:52 i have a function to create a list that must have 10 arguments 16:29:00 however, this arguments must be random (goodbye functional 16:29:23 so, i want my random parameter generator to expand into 10 arguments 16:29:26 something like that 16:29:30 rudybot [~luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:29:46 rudybot: uptime 16:29:46 offby1: I've been up for thirty-four seconds; this tcp/ip connection has been up for thirty-one seconds 16:29:52 rudybot: good morning 16:30:14 haole: your problem sounds pretty easy 16:30:40 now i feel stupid :D 16:31:00 (build-list 10 (lambda (ignored) (random 10))) 16:31:07 that's non-standard, but it gives you the idea 16:31:10 offby1: :XTL!t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi PRIVMSG #scheme :ACTION reluctantly gets up and starts his morning 16:31:21 offby1: That function is called list-tabulate in SRFI 1. 16:31:22 IIRC. 16:31:26 oh crap. 16:31:41 cky, thanks... that must be what i'm looking for 16:31:43 -!- rudybot [~luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:49 -!- haole [~ivan@189.34.128.18] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:32:17 Wow, he was off quickly. :-P 16:32:23 I'm glad he found his answer though. :-P 16:32:32 incubot: (let ((add1 (lambda (x) (+ x 1)))) (let loop ((x 0)) (if (< x 10) (begin (display ".") (loop (add1 x)))))) 16:32:32 ..........# 16:33:26 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:09 rudybot [~luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:37:35 incubot: (let loop ((x 0) (y '())) (if (< x 10) (begin (display y) (loop (+ 1 x) (kons (+ x 1) y)))))) 16:37:35 Error: unbound variable: kons 16:37:47 incubot: (let loop ((x 0) (y '())) (if (< x 10) (begin (display y) (loop (+ 1 x) (cons (+ x 1) y)))))) 16:37:47 Error: unexpected list terminator: #\) 16:39:25 incubot: (let loop ((x 0) (y '())) (if (< x 10) (begin (display y) (loop (+ 1 x) (cons (+ x 1) y))))) 16:39:25 ()(1)(2 1)(3 2 1)(4 3 2 1)(5 4 3 2 1)(6 5 4 3 2 1)(7 6 5 4 3 2 1)(8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1)(9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1)# 16:39:46 must have been while, then... 16:40:12 when, pffy... 16:44:02 incubot: (let loop ([x 0]) (when (< x 10) (begin (display "yep") (newline) (loop (add1 x))))) 16:44:04 Eval 19579 timed out. 16:45:16 rudybot: eval (let loop ([x 0]) (when (< x 10) (display "yep") (newline) (loop (add1 x)))) 16:45:18 sladegen: your sandbox is ready 16:45:19 sladegen: ; stdout: "yep\nyep\nyep\nyep\nyep\nyep\nyep\nyep\nyep\nyep\n" 16:55:16 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:23 -!- rudybot [~luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:47 rudybot [~luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 17:08:04 rudybot: eval (+ 2 3 ) 17:08:06 offby1: your sandbox is ready 17:08:06 offby1: ; Value: 5 17:08:16 rudybot: are you feeling talkative today? 17:08:32 wow, lookit him gc 17:08:59 offby1: jcowan: I hope I'm not being too talkative. 17:09:25 rudybot: no, it's fine. You've been fairly discreet. 17:09:26 offby1: Hrm, does anyone know of any libraries in Scheme for "Discreet Event Simulation?" 17:09:44 rudybot: no, but I know of an "incubuot" reverse-engineering hack. 17:09:45 offby1: try: emms-seek-minor-mode.el JoseEMarchesi MouseEvent R?glageBaseEspaceNom R?glesDeMiseEnPage ReverseEngineering SeekCriticism SimpleMiseEnPageTexte tryitandsee WhyUseEmacs http://badvista.fsf.org/blog/analysis-of-microsofts-suicide-note-part-1 17:09:57 rudybot: ok, I'll consider that. Thanks for your help. 17:09:58 offby1: cvandusen: cedet creates new frames (or windows in the traditional desktop sense). I consider this unemacsy. 17:10:17 *offby1* laughs evilly 17:10:25 klutometis: your competition is online. 17:10:56 *offby1* considers suppressing the "no replying to bots" rule for incubot 17:11:06 the two of them could have long heartfelt talks 17:19:48 more like monobotues... 17:25:33 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 17:38:28 -!- certainty [~closure@dslc-082-082-130-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:39:47 the Internet is a series of monotuboes 17:41:36 I need some coding advice 17:41:57 I'm coding a simple irc-connection module but I don't know if I'm making it right 17:43:08 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-95.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:45:35 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:49 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:59:25 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:18 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:17:36 -!- Frq [~chatzilla@88.243.76.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:54 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:51:37 -!- Blkt [~user@93.144.124.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:22 Gosh, I don't know anything about IRC 18:52:23 *offby1* whistles innocently 18:52:30 rapacity: is it complicated? 18:52:33 If it's simple, I'll take a look 18:52:47 (if it's simple, ur doin it rong :-) 18:53:47 http://repos.codealife.com:82/rapacity/irc/file/599642ce3e7f 18:54:06 naa it's not that, it's just I don't know how to design stuff 18:54:18 gaah 18:54:23 it's a ton of files!! 18:54:29 rudybot: source 18:54:30 offby1: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git 18:54:36 rapacity: that's my IRC experience 18:55:07 rapacity: if you write plenty of tests, then you'll _know_ if you've coded it right. 18:55:20 Testing a client is tricky, though, since you have to (in effect) fake up a server 18:55:22 well it works right 18:55:35 I was thinking of running 2 clients 18:55:42 and having them verify each other 18:55:59 I just don't know if the code is ok or not 18:56:15 well ... how would I know if it was OK? 18:56:24 do you have any specific question? 18:56:46 -!- MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 18:57:14 yeah, I'll paste somethnig 18:57:38 MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:59:28 I see you've got some tests; that's good. 18:59:45 (You also have documentation; I never bothered with it :-) 19:00:02 yeah I'm really forgetful 19:00:36 what's "acontrol"? 19:00:36 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:00:41 You require it, but I don't have it 19:00:48 oh some library I wrote 19:00:52 err I'll pastebin it 19:00:53 ah 19:01:02 it's just (aif (awhen (acond etc 19:01:10 some of those are already available in PLT 19:01:14 rudybot: help aif 19:01:15 offby1: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 19:01:20 rudybot: doc aif 19:01:26 offby1: not found in any library's documentation: aif 19:01:31 hm 19:01:36 must be in some PlaneT package 19:02:38 http://sfsafsadf.pastebin.com/vizzW7i4 19:02:41 that's it 19:03:00 well, there are other bits missing, too, so I'm not going to bother trying to run it. 19:03:04 So ask your quesiton 19:03:04 http://pastebin.com/wuEu7FW6 <- and this is my problem 19:03:08 ah ok 19:03:19 I wanted to add state tracking 19:03:34 you'll have to explain what you mean by that 19:03:41 tracking channels/users 19:03:54 ok, I know what channels and users are. What does "tracking" mean? 19:04:28 err mutating some struct #(channels nicks channel-nicks) 19:04:33 -!- Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Narrenschiff] 19:04:35 joins/parts/quits 19:04:35 to what end? 19:05:13 I'm pretty sure there's some actual problem you're trying to solve, but you haven't communicated it. Try saying something like "I want to provide a function that takes a nick as input, and returns the date that user was last seen" or something. 19:05:18 Then I'll know what you're trying to do. 19:05:30 yeah something like what you said 19:05:30 But so far you've just uttered terse phrases 19:05:47 sorry :p 19:05:48 OK, I can deal with that. rudybot does that. 19:05:53 let's see how I do it ... 19:06:33 nurv [nurv@83.231.81.72] has joined #scheme 19:06:42 Hi. 19:06:50 I think I use the file system: every time someone says something, I write a little struct into a file, whose name is based on the user. 19:06:57 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 19:06:58 Then every time I want to retrieve some data, I look in the file system. 19:07:10 Then I reformat the disk and accidentally erase all the accumulated data :-| 19:07:33 ah 19:07:38 so you're writing in to a file 19:09:04 yep 19:09:17 I want that info accessible even after the bot restarts, so I pretty much have to. 19:09:28 I should really use S3 or something, so that I don't risk deleting it all ... 19:09:44 what's S3 ? 19:10:00 that's a "cloud" service from Amazon.com -- it's basically a giant persistent hash table that you access over http 19:10:03 works pretty well 19:10:09 a lot of web sites use it as a datastore. 19:10:35 the benefit to me would be that it'd be hard for me to accidentally delete my data, and it'd be available from any machine on which I run the bot. 19:10:48 (I move the bot from machine to machine ) 19:11:07 oh 19:12:07 right now it's on my home box, but that's unreliable: whenever we run the vacuum, a circuit-breaker goes, so it crashes ... sometimes I have it on a cheap Xen instance, but that was super-slow because I was too cheap to buy enough RAM :) 19:12:18 (I just upgraded that, and in the next few hours will probably move the bot back there) 19:12:40 I used to use a linode, which was great, but it's $20/month, and that seems too steep for such a silly toy project 19:13:08 what can rudybot do ? 19:15:11 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 19:15:44 rudybot: help 19:15:45 offby1: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 19:15:50 rudybot: seen rapacity 19:15:51 offby1: rapacity was seen in/on #scheme four minutes ago, saying "oh", and then rapacity was seen in/on #scheme two minutes ago, saying "what can rudybot do ?" 19:15:53 rudybot: seen eli 19:15:54 offby1: No sign of eli 19:15:58 that's the feature you want 19:16:11 yeah I also wanted to store 19:16:17 unfortunately, as I implied, I nuked the database by accident, so it doesn't know about anything that anyone did more than an hour or so ago 19:16:25 data on what users are on a channel 19:16:37 and what channels a user is on 19:16:39 that data will be a bit tricky. 19:16:43 the first, that is. 19:16:48 but I wasn't sure what would be the cleanest way to store it 19:16:59 The latter you could just as easily get from the irc server, at least if it's freenode 19:17:06 I wouldn't bother implementing that myself 19:17:22 *offby1* installs plt-scheme on his xen slice as we speak 19:18:07 right now I have it as a bunch of hash tables 19:18:10 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:18:32 that's fine 19:18:36 and I'm passing the struct references around everywhere 19:18:45 what's a "struct reference"? 19:18:57 I'd just stick the hash table's name in a module, and make it accessible. 19:19:20 If you've got multiple threads, you might put the table inside a "server" -- a thread which uses channels to serve requests from other threads. 19:19:29 nick-struct(name ident host access) access(channel nick level) channel(name topic status access) 19:19:35 (an older version of rudybot used threads, but it was too complicated, so I got rid of them) 19:19:43 yeah, I've got similar structs 19:19:55 and there's lots of circular references 19:20:08 sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:16 so I thought it was messy 19:21:08 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:08 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:09 -!- sstrickl_ is now known as sstrickl 19:21:26 instead of having one struct contain another, you might have it contain just (say) a string 19:21:33 and have that string be an index into a table of nicks. 19:24:02 maybe I'll do that, :p 19:24:27 thanks, btw is there a guide to packaging libraries for planet? 19:25:26 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 19:26:30 I assume there's one in the main PLT docs 19:26:59 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/planet/ 19:27:58 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 19:29:02 thanks! 19:30:29 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:33:39 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:00 dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-89-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:38:21 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:39:50 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:29 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 19:44:44 dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 19:44:46 -!- dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45:41 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 19:46:34 askhader [~askhader@CPE001cf068222b-CM0014e825df0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:47:27 mickn [~mickn@206-248-183-235.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 19:47:40 I have a function taking user input with (read) but I want to have the option to simply enter nothing (just press enter) - do I have to alter the default read table to achieve this? 19:52:15 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:38 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:56:05 Riastradh [~riastradh@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:00:41 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:04:26 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:13 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:06:23 -!- mickn [~mickn@206-248-183-235.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:48 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:33 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:14:06 Symmetry- [~thezog@host-static-92-114-207-115.moldtelecom.md] has joined #scheme 20:14:09 hi 20:15:13 can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong 20:15:15 (define first (lambda args (car args))) 20:15:23 (first '(1 2 3)) 20:15:28 (1 2 3) 20:15:39 What you defined will take the first argument you pass to it 20:15:42 (first 1 2 3 4) => 1 20:16:00 Try (define first (lambda (arg) (car arg))) 20:16:00 that's the problem, it returns the whole list 20:16:10 just a sec 20:16:36 that worked. 20:16:54 Do you see why? 20:16:58 still unclear why though.. this one works fine (define prefix-foo (lambda args (cons 'foo args))) 20:17:11 sjamaan, no I don't 20:17:34 Why does that work fine? (prefix-foo '(1 2 3)) will return (foo (1 2 3)), won't it? 20:17:57 oh. 20:18:29 so... encasing (arg) in parens declares it to be a list? 20:19:15 Nope 20:19:39 lambda accepts a list of argument variables which will be filled in when you pass arguments to it 20:19:52 For example (lambda (a b) (+ a b)) will accept exactly two arguments 20:20:02 (lambda () 1) will accept zero arguments 20:20:36 A lambda with a variable name instead of a list of variable names will accept any number of arguments and bind a list of those to the variable 20:21:13 oh, so (first '(1 2 3)) is really passing ((1 2 3))? 20:21:13 incubot: eval ((lambda x x) 1 2 3) 20:21:13 (1 2 3) 20:21:20 yes 20:21:24 thank you 20:21:30 incubot: eval ((lambda (x) x) 1 2 3) 20:21:30 Error: bad argument count - received 3 but expected 1: # 20:21:38 See the difference? 20:21:56 I do, thanks 20:22:30 well sid 20:22:31 said 20:22:40 rudybot: give Symmetry a fish 20:22:41 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: a 20:22:45 heh 20:22:54 rudybot: to Symmetry, give a fish 20:22:55 offby1: jabot: give a man a fish, and he will be a begger the rest of his life. 20:23:12 rudybot: a) my nick isn't jabot; b) you're such a cynic 20:23:13 offby1: cynic 20:23:19 rudybot: am not 20:23:20 offby1: I am working thorough HtDP and it is great, but I am dying for an alternative to DrScheme, because my computer is underpowered. 20:23:27 rudybot: tell me about it 20:23:28 offby1: We aren't gonna lie. Emacs sucks. Some of us tolerate it, but we can't tell you if YOU'LL be able to. Try it and make up your own mind. 20:23:34 good advice. 20:25:17 what's the syntax for rudybot? 20:25:32 rudybot: help 20:25:33 offby1: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 20:25:39 those are the built in commands. 20:25:59 if what you say isn't in that list, then he comes up with something semi-random. 20:26:19 oh I see 20:26:29 this one's extremely clever: 20:26:30 rudybot: later tell sjamaan something 20:26:31 minion: memo for sjamaan: offby1 told me to tell you: something 20:26:35 *offby1* chuckles 20:26:40 that's called "outsourcing" 20:26:46 rudybot, give Symmetry- a_fish 20:26:46 Symmetry-: error: Talk to yourself much too? 20:26:54 heh 20:27:06 turns out that "give" is a special command 20:27:13 rudybot: give Symmetry- (+ 3 2 1) 20:27:14 Symmetry-: offby1 has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 20:27:32 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 20:27:39 rudybot, eval (GRAB) 20:27:39 Symmetry-: your sandbox is ready 20:27:40 Symmetry-: ; Value: 6 20:28:04 hmm what next? :) 20:29:25 oh that was all I guess. 20:30:37 to be honest, I never really saw the point of that feature. 20:30:50 it's interesting technically, but I don't think it's useful 20:30:50 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:31:09 schemer999iphone [~schemerip@cpe-76-174-45-251.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:32:11 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:18 -!- schemer999iphone [~schemerip@cpe-76-174-45-251.socal.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 20:33:56 I ran across this and trying the problems: http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/lists/ 20:34:14 it's a Scheme tutorial very thinly disguised as a text-based adventure game 20:34:31 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:34:46 heh 20:34:51 the scoundrels 20:35:35 15 years old and still running? That's kind of impressive 20:36:42 I'm currently doing "define a function sum that adds all its arguments", like + 20:36:54 and it gives me an endless loop :( 20:37:04 (define sum (lambda args (cond ((null? args) 0)(t (+ (car args)(sum (cdr args))))))) 20:37:13 is anything obviously wrong with it? 20:37:20 yep 20:37:29 just a hint? 20:37:37 I'm being snarky. Gimme a minute. 20:37:41 oh 20:38:05 I'd use "else" instead of "t" ... 20:38:32 today is my first time with Scheme... 20:38:41 I barely figured out cond yet 20:38:48 How many arguments are you passing in the recursive call to SUM, Symmetry-? 20:38:49 not bad for the first day 20:38:53 Riastradh: hey! 20:38:56 long time etc. 20:38:56 Hi. 20:39:04 e.g. (sum 1 2) loops endlessly 20:39:20 yep 20:39:30 Symmetry-: you're in good hands with Riastradh; he'll walk you through it. 20:39:37 *offby1* resumes smoking dope and loafing 20:39:38 heh ok 20:39:59 Riastradh is an honorary member of the "Socratic Method Society" 20:44:20 can you recursively call (sum (cdr args)) like that? 20:44:34 sure 20:44:36 you're doing it 20:44:45 it isn't working the way you want, but you can do it :) 20:44:47 and if you can, what is passed? a single list, or a number of arguments 20:44:55 (as per the discussion above) 20:45:03 I have a function taking user input with (read) but I want to have the option to simply enter nothing (just press enter) - do I have to alter the default read table to achieve this? 20:45:47 askhader: I wouldn't usually use read for user input 20:48:42 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:43 Symmetry-, a single argument. 20:49:04 askhader, If you have to use (read), then you could use ctrl+d (in unix anyway) and then read will return eof 20:49:16 In order to pass a list of arguments, rather than a single argument which may happen to be a list, you must use APPLY: (APPLY (LIST ...)) is equivalent to ( ...). 20:54:10 askhader: Maybe you can read a line of text, and then "read" from that. That's not quite the same, since it'll force your user to keep everything on one line; but it might be good enough. 20:55:19 Riastradh, thanks, so which procedure is that? 20:55:37 Symmetry-, in this case, you are applying the procedure SUM to one argument, but you want, I presume, to apply it to a list of arguments. 20:55:47 ah. 20:55:51 Riastradh: I've completely forgotten about those changes to octave, thanks for reminder. 20:56:21 Riastradh, so instead of (sum (cdr args)) I would write what? 20:56:25 askhader, you can use PEEK-CHAR to check whether the user has entered a newline, and if not, you can use READ. 20:56:31 -!- askhader [~askhader@CPE001cf068222b-CM0014e825df0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:56:44 ooh 20:56:48 Symmetry-, pass APPLY two arguments: the procedure you want to apply, and the list of arguments to which you want to apply it. 20:56:59 got it 20:57:01 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-25-89-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57:17 ASau, OK. I had forgotten who was responsible for it, and I couldn't find whether I had already submitted the PR, so I submitted a new one. 20:57:35 hm, "[Error: undefined atom: apply]" 20:57:44 Riastradh: I have those changes for monthes it seems. 20:58:01 Symmetry-, hmm... Perhaps what you are typing at is not actually a Scheme evaluator. 20:58:17 no, it's a javascript knock-off running in the browser 20:58:31 but the problem should be solvable using this much :/ 20:58:43 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:59:13 Well, you can implement it in a different way, but you will need another procedure. In particular, you can have one procedure that takes any number of arguments, as a list; and another procedure that takes a single argument, which is a list. The latter procedure is where you can do the actual work. 21:00:20 I see 21:00:44 actually I think I just found a chapter in the site's manual about recursion, the answer will definitely be there 21:00:53 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:00:56 sorry for the spam 21:00:57 (Splitting it up this way also has the nice consequence that the procedure's running time will be linear in the number of arguments, rather than quadratic.) 21:02:08 ASau, can you also deal with the devel/hdf5 PR? 21:02:25 No? 21:03:03 askhader [~askhader@CPE001cf068222b-CM0014e825df0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:03:21 askhader, you can use PEEK-CHAR to check whether the user has entered a newline, and if not, you can use READ. 21:04:05 Riastradh: alright, found it. 21:04:29 oh damn. the requirement was not to write +, but a function sum that takes a list, as in (sum (1 2 3)). putting (args) in parens solved that 21:04:58 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:45 nymm [~nymm@c-136-19-vas-l3.cust.mdfnet.se] has joined #scheme 21:08:14 ASau, it's a trivial fix, and necessary to build devel/hdf5 on Darwin; I have also reported it upstream. If you can't commit it or aren't comfortable with doing so, that's OK -- I just thought I'd ask while you're at it. 21:08:50 I'm looking at it. 21:09:15 (PR pkg/42757) 21:10:54 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-stcckgfdieuieufk] has joined #scheme 21:11:07 <_rata_> hi 21:11:34 Riastradh: Thank you 21:14:26 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:14:35 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/dj_jeezy.jpg] 21:23:38 -!- askhader [~askhader@CPE001cf068222b-CM0014e825df0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:12 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:46 Symmetry-: actually, (sum (1 2 3)) is likely an error. 21:29:53 rudybot: eval (define sum +) 21:30:00 rudybot: eval (sum (1 2 3)) 21:30:01 offby1: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: 2 3 21:30:06 rudybot: eval (sum (list 1 2 3)) 21:30:07 offby1: error: +: expects argument of type ; given (1 2 3) 21:30:15 rudybot: eval (apply sum (list 1 2 3)) 21:30:15 offby1: ; Value: 6 21:30:18 ya see 21:34:19 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DD7F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:38:41 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 21:39:24 offby1, sorry was afk 21:39:30 this monstrosity seemed to work 21:39:34 (define sum (lambda (args) (cond ((null? args) 0)(t (+ (car args)(sum (cdr args))))))) 21:39:47 rudybot, eval (define sum (lambda (args) (cond ((null? args) 0)(t (+ (car args)(sum (cdr args))))))) 21:39:55 rudybot, eval (sum (1 2 3)) 21:39:55 Symmetry-: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: 2 3 21:40:52 sigh, I don't know :/ never mind :) 21:41:21 Symmetry-, when you write (1 2 3), in a place where Scheme expects an expression, Scheme will grow confused because you asked it to apply the number 1, as if it were a procedure, to the arguments 2 and 3. 21:42:48 Just as evaluating (+ 1 2) entails evaluating + to obtain a procedure and then applying it to the arguments, evaluating (1 2 3) entails evaluating 1 to obtain a procedure and then applying it to the arguments -- but 1 is not a procedure, so this doesn't make sense. 21:43:05 rudybot, eval (sum '(1 2 3)) 21:43:06 Symmetry-: error: reference to undefined identifier: t 21:43:19 You can make a list with a particular sequence of elements using the LIST procedure, or you can make Scheme take (1 2 3) literally with the QUOTE special operator. 21:43:27 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-231.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:43:33 crap, I forgot about quote, right 21:45:07 ah, replacing t with #t worked (tried rudybot in PM) 21:45:25 I spammed you guys enough :) 21:46:44 Usually one writes ELSE rather than #T; ELSE is interpreted specially in the syntax of COND. The meaning would be the same, though. 21:47:44 That is, (cond (a b) (c d) (else fnord)) vs (cond (a b) (c d) (#t fnord)). 21:48:02 I see 21:51:43 yep 21:51:48 more about style than behavior 21:52:33 Actually, COND's ELSE is one of the more confusing parts of Scheme syntax... But it is more conventional than writing #T there. 21:54:20 -!- nymm [~nymm@c-136-19-vas-l3.cust.mdfnet.se] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:57:44 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-stcckgfdieuieufk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:49 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:11:16 foros [~foros@188.72.255.208] has joined #scheme 22:11:52 HG` [~HG@xdslfy157.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 22:15:14 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfy157.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:36 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:50 -!- foros is now known as nymm` 22:32:09 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:38:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:40:15 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 22:44:59 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:45:31 alistair [~alistair@host86-178-203-169.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:45:48 -!- alistair [~alistair@host86-178-203-169.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:46:46 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:57 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:33 -!- rudybot [~luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:01 -!- Symmetry- [~thezog@host-static-92-114-207-115.moldtelecom.md] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:26:25 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 23:36:09 rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has joined #scheme 23:36:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:40:58 Symmetry- [~thezog@host-static-92-114-207-115.moldtelecom.md] has joined #scheme 23:41:03 -!- rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:44:22 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:18 rudybot [~luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 23:50:58 seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme