00:17:53 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-205-6.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:18 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@78.13.218.209.transedge.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 00:36:29 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:57 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 00:41:02 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-138.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:41:27 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-138.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:46 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:52 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-129-44-187-133.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:56:58 winxordie [~winxordie@n128-227-67-152.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #scheme 01:01:19 -!- jao [~jao@83.50.65.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:17 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 01:04:25 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:38 -!- fabe_afk [~fabe@p54A7E2C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:52 MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:09:45 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 01:15:25 k4jd095b__ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 01:15:39 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:46 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:16:24 jao [~jao@83.57.5.8] has joined #scheme 01:22:39 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:11 Does symbolic computation have anything to do with using symbols in scheme? 01:26:19 rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 01:28:30 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:46 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:19 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:34:47 -!- eli is now known as Guest63164 01:35:25 -!- Guest63164 [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:41 elibarzilay [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:36:06 -!- elibarzilay [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36:12 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:37:22 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-127.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:39:18 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-138.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:49:05 haesbaert [~haesbaert@c9155a20.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 01:59:06 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-127.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:59:35 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:59:59 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:40 davidjimenez [~davidjime@adsl-76-254-51-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:03:08 I'm using a substitution interpreter and can figure out why the following does not work: (map (lambda (x) (first x)) '(hello)) 02:03:24 *cannot 02:06:50 which error do you get? 02:07:54 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-127.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:08:50 apply: bad procedure: (lambda (x) (first x)) 02:10:08 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:11:09 ok. 02:11:12 I guess the error 02:11:20 is hapenning because you're applying first 02:11:21 to hello 02:11:28 and it seems that hello isn't a list. 02:11:44 Sergio`_ [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 02:11:45 afaik, (first items) is the same of (list-ref items 0) 02:11:49 so, the argument must be a list. 02:11:55 hello is a list because it's surrounded by () 02:12:02 no 02:12:06 '(hello) is a list 02:12:10 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:16 map iterates trough the list 02:12:25 and for each element of the list, it's going to do something to it 02:12:42 and append the result of that into an list that will be "outputed" in the eend. 02:12:55 so, the first iteration calls your procedure 02:12:55 I meant that the hello in the function i entered is a list. 02:13:03 giving as argument, hello 02:13:06 not '(hello) 02:13:27 could you paste your whole code? 02:13:38 it just that line 02:13:44 if it's just that line 02:13:45 *it's 02:13:48 then hello isn't a list. 02:13:57 '(1) 02:14:00 is 1 a list? 02:14:25 nope.. but '(1)... sorry I hope I'm getting what you are saying 02:14:37 I meant '(1) is a list 02:15:02 yes, '(1) is a list 02:15:16 but map 02:15:24 doesn't give '(1) to the procedure you give it. 02:15:37 it'll call that procedure for each element in the list you give it 02:15:50 and pass to the procedure the current element of your list 02:16:32 k. I see what you are saying. but why does the following work: (map first '(the rain in spain)) 02:16:35 if p is the procedure you give to map, and '(1 2 3) is the list, (map p '(1 2 3)) is the same as (cons (p 1) (cons (p 2) (cons (p 3) '())))) 02:16:59 davidjimenez: are you using stklos? 02:17:08 davidjimenez, afaik, it shouldn't. 02:17:35 nope, I'm using scheme-1 02:17:49 does (first 'hello) work? 02:18:23 yep 02:18:40 what about ((lambda (x) (first x)) 'hello)? 02:18:57 davidjimenez, what does (first 'hello) outputs? 02:19:02 h 02:19:08 yep 02:19:21 first is not a standard scheme function 02:20:08 well, it is part of the scheme I'm using for a class I'm taking 02:20:12 davidjimenez, yes... for example, I don't have it here in my scheme implementation (it seems) 02:20:25 if you want to get the first element of a list 02:20:36 maybe you should try (list-ref list-of-things 0) 02:20:43 The `first' function is defined in SRFI-1. 02:20:43 davidjimenez: what about ((lambda (x) (first x)) 'hello)? 02:20:44 or (car list-of-things) 02:21:10 jao: that works 02:21:25 phao: I'm really interested in knowing why that line does not work 02:21:45 davidjimenez: and (map first '(hello))? 02:22:01 yeah that works 02:22:15 (h) 02:22:39 looks like map's implementation, in that interpreter, does not support lambda forms 02:23:17 i'm guessing you get a similar error for, say, (map (lambda (x) (+ x 1)) '(1)) 02:24:00 nope, I get (2) 02:24:57 wait, I'm wrong, you are right 02:25:05 it didn't work 02:26:10 Why is that? 02:26:12 probably, the interpreter only accepts atomic expressions as the first argument of map, and similar contexts. it's not implementing a full scheme. 02:26:38 but i'm only guessing. 02:26:42 argh. what sort of pseudo-scheme is this? 02:27:04 stay away from it, it sounds like pure evil 02:27:28 It's a partial implementation of a scheme interpreter meant to show how substitution works 02:27:34 he's learning. it's just the first stage in a series that will end in the real thing 02:28:03 yes, it's for a class. 02:28:12 ok, it's obviously missing a substitution rule or two. does it show steps in the substitution? 02:28:17 hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:59 (define (substitute exp params args bound) 02:28:59 (cond ((constant? exp) exp) 02:28:59 ((symbol? exp) 02:29:00 (if (memq exp bound) 02:29:00 exp 02:29:00 (lookup exp params args))) 02:29:01 ((quote-exp? exp) exp) 02:29:01 ((lambda-exp? exp) 02:29:02 (list 'lambda 02:29:02 (cadr exp) 02:29:02 (substitute (caddr exp) params args (append bound (cadr exp))))) 02:29:02 (else (map (lambda (subexp) (substitute subexp params args bound)) 02:29:41 :jao and phao: I really appreciate the help! 02:29:54 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:30:04 -!- Sergio`_ [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:30:48 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 02:34:31 davidjimenez: probably, you'll discover how the interpreter is failing by looking at map's implementation and following the eval/apply trail 02:36:18 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:36:24 It's actually using the default map implementation.... the interpreter is really rudimentary with no more than a couple hundred lines of code 02:37:38 can you paste the interpreter at lisppaste.org? I'm curious to see where the problem lies 02:38:45 k. give me a minute 02:39:15 paste.lisp.org, I mean :) 02:42:31 http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/sp10/library/ 02:42:39 it's scheme1.scm 02:44:50 davidjimenez: doesn't comment 1. explain your problem? 02:47:56 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-mfpuapiyhllubnro] has joined #scheme 02:51:16 davidjimenez: the problem is in the first cond clause of apply-1. i'll let you figure out why :) 02:52:19 oh, I see 02:52:24 risky business 02:52:51 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.186.191] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:02 *aspect* grumbles about holy abstractions where filling the holes would be both trivial and educational 02:55:32 *aspect* hair stands on end looking at the example at the bottom of the document 02:57:41 (first 'foo) -> 'f isn't going to confuse anyone 03:02:00 -!- k4jd095b__ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:17 k4jd095b__ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 03:04:39 -!- foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:08 joeyadams [~joey@208.96.182.115] has joined #scheme 03:07:09 I'm trying to figure out how call/cc works, so I made a test: (write (call/cc (lambda (c) (begin (c "one") (puts "two"))))) 03:07:39 oops: 03:07:47 nvm, that's correct 03:08:40 This only prints "one". Does invoking the continuation c prevent the remaining steps of the (begin ...) from being executed? 03:09:40 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-226.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:10:40 I'll try to answer with a question: what would you expect to be the value of (c "one") in that example? 03:11:53 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-112-113.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:12:10 I expect it doesn't matter, as invocation of it causes control to leave the continuation. 03:13:06 close -- (c "one") doesn't return. your first assumption is correct :) 03:14:30 Now I'm trying to figure out how to store a continuation in a variable. (call/cc (lambda (c) (define gc c))) (gives an error; keep on guessing, joey) 03:16:09 joeyadams: (define keep #f) (call/cc (lambda (c) (set! keep c))) 03:16:58 Is #f false, and used as a dummy variable so I can set! later? 03:17:09 yes 03:17:21 Why can't I use a define? 03:17:21 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 03:17:38 because define is top level. 03:17:45 -!- k4jd095b__ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:18:05 Is there a way to undefine? 03:18:12 (or something like that) 03:18:25 you can set again to #f. 03:18:59 jao: any hints as to why that's the issue 03:19:33 Or you can use your scope cleverly: (let ((keep #f)) (call/cc (lambda(k) (set! keep k))) (do-something-with-k)) 03:19:53 So in strict scheme, you can't use define in a lower scope like this?: (begin (define y 5) y) 03:20:11 joeyadams: "(gives an error; keep on guessing, joey)" 03:20:15 `begin' does not introduce a new scope. 03:20:16 What is the error? 03:20:25 (call/cc (lambda (c) (define gc c))) 03:20:25 . begin (possibly implicit): no expression after a sequence of internal definitions in: ((define gc c)) 03:20:39 a lambda expression needs a result 03:20:44 davidjimenez: just try to follow what the interpreter is doing with your original expression, and, when you hit that spot think what's going wrong. 03:21:09 joeyadams: so, it asks for an expression. 03:21:22 So it needs to be (call/cc (lambda (c) (begin (define gc c) #f))) 03:21:32 You can't have a define with nothing "after" it, except at the top level. 03:21:50 Yes. 03:21:54 except that GC only exists inside the scope of that lambda 03:22:06 davidjimenez: you can as well use the full scheme to evaluate the corresponding call, and see if it's giving you an error. i'm sure you'll see why it's an error. 03:22:11 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 03:22:11 03:22:11 -!- names: ccl-logbot k4jd095b_ sepult` joeyadams _rata_ Poeir Sergio` hosh_office hadronzoo davidjimenez haesbaert eli rudybot jao MononcQc parolang winxordie sstrickl mbishop adu mbohun bipt nickgibbon MichaelRaskin jmcphers Crito drwho sphex Checkie oconnore_ Riastradh scheibo_ jedc araujo PygoscelisPapua rotty lisppaste rup antoszka metasyntax` nowhere_man metasyntax xwl_ saccade_ timj_ csmrfx KatieHuber adzuci Mr_Awesome futilius DerGuteMoritz alexsuraci 03:22:11 -!- names: chandler elf ASau``` joast Axioplase_ Pepe_ ray fda314925 copumpkin elderK pchrist kilimanjaro virl jeapostrophe ironChicken stepnem arrummzen yosafbridge rapacity eno Daemmerung kniu offby1 emma snorble Adrinael gnomon pookleblinky gerard clog mreggen rrm3_ specbot incubot XTL tltstc dfeuer Kusanagi REPLeffect duncanm aspect sad0ur felipe Arelius shardz rmrfchik zbigniew sjamaan ski saccade samth_away gabot ecraven minion Leonidas elly cky mornfall 03:22:11 -!- names: tabe`` eldragon mhoye Khisanth qebab sloyd C-Keen ve klutometis jyujin dlouhy Obfuscate bunz ineiros z0d tizoc Armageddon00 timchen1` kencausey nicktastic 03:22:11 And is that define only available at that scope? (i.e. lexical scope) 03:22:35 joeyadams: inside a lambda, there is already a begin. 03:23:01 jao: in full scheme I don't get an error. 03:23:08 So, (lambda (c) (define gc c) #f) is enough. And gc will be known only within this lambda. 03:23:24 goody 03:23:35 davidjimenez: i mean, the expression that ends up being called by scheme-1, not the original one 03:23:56 I guess what I'm trying to do is: (call/cc (lambda (c) c)) 03:24:11 you mean (apply map (first '(hello))) ? 03:24:13 Then that can be flown around all over the place in first-class. 03:24:35 davidjimenez: in the end, apply-1 is calling the full scheme with something that's not what you passed to eval-1 03:24:36 sorry if i'm missing something terribly obvious 03:25:03 So are there cases where a continuation becomes invalid? Or, like upward funargs, do they persist? 03:25:11 davidjimenez: yes, that's what i mean 03:25:49 joeyadams: they persist. 03:26:22 (until they are garbage collected, of course. In which case you don't have access to it anyway) 03:26:29 well, I had tried figuring out if I could recreate the problem using apply... but I cannot get apply to work with anything. 03:26:44 Now I have to understand what it means to invoke a continuation after it is returned. 03:27:06 I am finally prepared to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation :) 03:27:09 davidjimenez: just run your interpreter by hand, until you reach the apply 03:27:32 joeyadams: to manipulate your continuation as a first class value, just do (call/cc (lambda (k) (whatever k)))! 03:27:46 davidjimenez: then run the apply in the full scheme. if you did the steps correctly, you'll get back your original error 03:27:58 But what if I want to leave the scope? 03:28:08 I guess that's how coroutines are done? 03:28:28 then have it stored in a variable with set! as I showed you earlier. 03:28:50 Daemmerung: great idea; how are you, btw? 03:28:58 i'm still languishing in guido-ville 03:28:58 davidjimenez: then try the same thing starting from (map first '(hello)), and you will get a call to apply that actually works 03:29:05 -!- scheibo_ [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:32:11 jao: how would your run the apply with first? This works: (apply map (list first (list 'hello))), but I don't know how to do it w/o using 'list' 03:33:14 davidjimenez: apply's second argument is a list, so you need to use a list 03:34:09 I mean, how could I do it so that it read something like this: (apply map '(first '(hello))) 03:34:13 -!- KatieHuber is now known as KatieHuber|away 03:34:37 davidjimenez: what does (apply foo bar) mean? 03:34:57 foo is the procedure and bar is a list 03:35:05 with the argument for foo 03:35:13 so you can rewrite it as? 03:35:31 Axioplase pasted "call a continuation after it returned" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96540 03:36:17 Axioplase annotated #96540 "without the typo." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96540#1 03:36:19 not sure I follow... sorry this must be painful for you 03:36:22 davidjimenez: let's say bar is the list (a b) 03:36:30 joeyadams: check this out. 03:36:35 then (apply foo '(a b)) 03:37:02 (apply foo (list a b)) -> (foo a b) 03:37:12 but if you quote 03:37:24 you're actually calling (foo 'a 'b) 03:37:43 right? 03:37:48 right, 03:41:36 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:36 03:41:36 -!- names: ccl-logbot ribbs k4jd095b_ sepult` joeyadams _rata_ Poeir Sergio` hosh_office hadronzoo davidjimenez haesbaert eli rudybot jao MononcQc parolang winxordie sstrickl mbishop adu mbohun bipt nickgibbon MichaelRaskin jmcphers Crito drwho sphex Checkie oconnore_ Riastradh jedc araujo PygoscelisPapua rotty lisppaste rup antoszka metasyntax` nowhere_man metasyntax xwl_ saccade_ timj_ csmrfx KatieHuber|away adzuci Mr_Awesome futilius DerGuteMoritz alexsuraci 03:41:36 -!- names: chandler elf ASau``` joast Axioplase_ Pepe_ ray fda314925 copumpkin elderK pchrist kilimanjaro virl jeapostrophe ironChicken stepnem arrummzen yosafbridge rapacity eno Daemmerung kniu offby1 emma snorble Adrinael gnomon pookleblinky gerard clog mreggen rrm3_ specbot incubot XTL tltstc dfeuer Kusanagi REPLeffect duncanm aspect sad0ur felipe Arelius shardz rmrfchik zbigniew sjamaan ski saccade samth_away gabot ecraven minion Leonidas elly cky mornfall 03:41:36 -!- names: nicktastic kencausey timchen1` Armageddon00 tizoc z0d ineiros bunz Obfuscate dlouhy jyujin klutometis ve C-Keen sloyd qebab Khisanth mhoye eldragon tabe`` 03:43:22 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 03:43:22 03:43:22 -!- names: ccl-logbot ribbs k4jd095b_ sepult` joeyadams _rata_ Poeir Sergio` hosh_office hadronzoo davidjimenez haesbaert eli rudybot jao MononcQc parolang winxordie sstrickl mbishop adu mbohun bipt nickgibbon MichaelRaskin jmcphers Crito drwho sphex Checkie oconnore_ Riastradh jedc araujo PygoscelisPapua rotty lisppaste rup antoszka metasyntax` nowhere_man metasyntax xwl_ saccade_ timj_ csmrfx KatieHuber|away adzuci Mr_Awesome futilius DerGuteMoritz alexsuraci 03:43:22 -!- names: chandler elf ASau``` joast Axioplase_ Pepe_ ray fda314925 copumpkin elderK pchrist kilimanjaro virl jeapostrophe ironChicken stepnem arrummzen yosafbridge rapacity eno Daemmerung kniu offby1 emma snorble Adrinael gnomon pookleblinky gerard clog mreggen rrm3_ specbot incubot XTL tltstc dfeuer Kusanagi REPLeffect duncanm aspect sad0ur felipe Arelius shardz rmrfchik zbigniew sjamaan ski saccade samth_away gabot ecraven minion Leonidas elly cky mornfall 03:43:22 -!- names: tabe`` eldragon mhoye Khisanth qebab sloyd C-Keen ve klutometis jyujin dlouhy nicktastic kencausey timchen1` Armageddon00 tizoc z0d ineiros bunz Obfuscate 03:43:32 (cons first .. 03:43:43 wait, are you saying the problem is that apply-1 is trying to execute: (apply map '(lambda (x) (first x) '(hello)) 03:43:59 yes :) 03:44:23 man, I feel so freaking dumb 03:44:36 if you give that to the full scheme, i bet you'll get exactly the same error message 03:45:33 but this works in full scheme: (map (lambda (x) (first x)) '(hello)) 03:45:35 davidjimenez: this stuff is very confusing at first. it's difficult to keep the two levels separate, because they're very similar languages 03:46:13 eliot_10gen [~anonymous@207-237-227-239.c3-0.80w-ubr2.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:46:18 davidjimenez: well, of course. (lambda (x) (first x)) evaluates to a procedure 03:46:25 which is what map expects 03:46:30 right 03:47:33 davidjimenez: an interesting exercise for you at this point would be to try to fix eval-1/apply-1, now that you know where the problem lies 03:48:37 yeah, that would be cool. I imagine that would entail adding another predicate to the cond? 03:49:57 looking at list items to determine whether they are procedures or something else 03:50:16 well, just try your hand and see how it works 03:50:23 :) 03:50:39 jao: thanks again! 03:50:43 np 03:51:02 davidjimenez: just curious, is B. Harvey your teacher? 03:51:18 jao: no. not that lucky 03:51:30 oh well 03:51:38 I'm taking the equivalent class at another college 03:51:48 ah, i see 03:51:50 are you a professor? 03:52:04 a long time ago :) 03:52:31 It shows. You must have been pretty good. 03:52:38 timj__ [~timj@e176208233.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:53:04 heh. tell that to my students! 03:53:17 :) 03:53:25 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176195054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:53:54 :) 03:56:23 jao: why does (map first '(hello))? wouldn't we run into the same problem? 03:56:37 * why does it work? 03:56:49 lol, I was trying to figure out what the strange ; operator does when reading (begin ;; no 03:57:03 That's not the first time I've been caught off-guard by a comment. 03:57:16 The first time, I was about 6 :) 03:57:24 davidjimenez: good question :) something must be different in the chain from the original expression to that call to eval, no? 03:57:27 possibly the previous time 03:58:09 I saw this in some HyperCard code: if foo is bar --  03:58:19 ( -- is a comment) 03:58:20 davidjimenez: that call to apply, i mean 03:58:41 jao:right 03:58:53 I didn't know if  had some mystical meaning. The moral: I really don't learn new syntaces much. 03:59:05 davidjimenez: so that's again for you to discover 03:59:54 (because i must really go to sleep... it's 5am by here) 04:00:20 jao: I think I have an idea. I has to do with how eval-1 is evaluating the two expressions 04:00:35 jao: Thanks again! I really owe you. 04:00:40 davidjimenez: sounds like a good idea, yeah 04:01:34 np. i hope you're enjoying your class, and scheme. it's a beautiful language. 04:02:57 it really is. I enjoy the challenge. hope you enjoy a good morning sleep. 04:03:11 i will. nite! 04:03:58 nite 04:04:28 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:06:14 -!- KatieHuber|away is now known as KatieHuber 04:08:51 skld [~skld@vpn.bangalore.geodesic.com] has joined #scheme 04:08:55 -!- skld [~skld@vpn.bangalore.geodesic.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:08:55 skld [~skld@unaffiliated/skld] has joined #scheme 04:18:22 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-226.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:21:34 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:31:00 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31:32 -!- MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:31:45 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:32:05 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 04:32:05 04:32:05 -!- names: ccl-logbot skld timj__ eliot_10gen ribbs k4jd095b_ joeyadams _rata_ Poeir Sergio` hadronzoo davidjimenez haesbaert eli rudybot jao parolang winxordie sstrickl mbishop adu mbohun bipt nickgibbon MichaelRaskin jmcphers Crito drwho sphex Checkie oconnore_ jedc araujo PygoscelisPapua rotty lisppaste rup antoszka metasyntax` nowhere_man metasyntax xwl_ saccade_ csmrfx KatieHuber adzuci Mr_Awesome futilius DerGuteMoritz alexsuraci chandler elf ASau``` joast 04:32:05 -!- names: Axioplase_ Pepe_ ray fda314925 copumpkin elderK pchrist kilimanjaro virl jeapostrophe ironChicken stepnem arrummzen yosafbridge rapacity eno Daemmerung kniu offby1 emma snorble Adrinael gnomon pookleblinky gerard clog mreggen rrm3_ specbot incubot XTL tltstc dfeuer Kusanagi REPLeffect duncanm aspect sad0ur felipe Arelius shardz rmrfchik zbigniew sjamaan ski saccade samth_away gabot ecraven minion Leonidas elly cky mornfall tabe`` eldragon mhoye Khisanth 04:32:05 -!- names: qebab sloyd C-Keen ve klutometis jyujin dlouhy Obfuscate bunz ineiros z0d tizoc Armageddon00 timchen1` kencausey nicktastic 04:41:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:47 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:53:09 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:55:20 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:02:24 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:27 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:12:50 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 05:19:21 -!- Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- ASau``` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@xvm-22-22.ghst.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- winxordie [~winxordie@n128-227-67-152.xlate.ufl.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- elly [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- tabe`` [~user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:21 -!- klutometis [klutometis@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- davidjimenez [~davidjime@adsl-76-254-51-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- rup [Rupert@deathcoil.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- saccade [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:22 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:23 -!- jedc [~jedc@c-76-105-131-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:23 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:23 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:23 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:23 -!- bunz [~bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:19:23 -!- tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:20:18 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:21:32 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-30-88-77.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:24:59 foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 05:25:30 klutometis: c'mon, NJ has everything... beaches, forests, skin bronzer. I had to learn Java, but otherwise am okay. 05:35:01 -!- eliot_10gen [~anonymous@207-237-227-239.c3-0.80w-ubr2.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: eliot_10gen] 05:42:49 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:48:18 myu2 [~myu2@KD114020035180.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:56:40 -!- myu2 [~myu2@KD114020035180.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-30-88-77.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 06:03:41 myu2 [~myu2@KD124211003116.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:05:48 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-127.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:42:00 -!- myu2 [~myu2@KD124211003116.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:44:34 -!- joeyadams [~joey@208.96.182.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:45:27 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:59:03 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:01:16 -!- nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:03:54 fabe [~fabe@p54A7E07E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:04:33 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:04 hkBst [~hkBst@41-184-82-6.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-113-63.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 winxordie [~winxordie@n128-227-67-152.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 jedc [~jedc@c-76-105-131-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 rup [Rupert@deathcoil.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 ASau``` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 Pepe_ [~ppjet@xvm-22-22.ghst.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 saccade [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 tabe`` [~user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 klutometis [klutometis@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 bunz [~bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #scheme 07:14:19 tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 07:14:21 la la la 07:14:30 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:14:41 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@41-184-82-6.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:41 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:14:44 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:15:14 -!- kar8nga is now known as Guest95837 07:16:38 elly [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 07:19:54 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:26 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 07:25:09 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-mfpuapiyhllubnro] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:30:13 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:30:23 rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 07:33:13 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:35:37 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:45:02 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7E07E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:12 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54:09 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57:05 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:56 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:17 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:11:53 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:19:37 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:25:20 savonarola [~savonarol@skript2.donet.ru] has joined #scheme 08:25:27 -!- savonarola [~savonarol@skript2.donet.ru] has left #scheme 08:30:45 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #scheme 08:36:42 michalk [~michalk@chello089073134224.chello.pl] has joined #scheme 08:39:37 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 08:43:39 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 08:48:22 masm [~masm@bl9-115-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:05:32 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 09:06:01 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 09:18:44 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:23:48 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:27 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:30:26 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 09:34:41 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 09:54:45 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:55:28 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 09:55:42 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 10:00:32 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:19 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:04:02 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 10:09:28 -!- michalk [~michalk@chello089073134224.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 10:12:32 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:46 slilo [~user@host-92-126-215-93.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has joined #scheme 10:22:35 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 10:30:37 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 10:30:43 slilo` [~user@host-92-124-182-108.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has joined #scheme 10:31:26 michalk [~michalk@chello089073134224.chello.pl] has joined #scheme 10:32:57 -!- slilo [~user@host-92-126-215-93.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:25 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-129-44-187-133.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 10:34:53 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:27 erato [~user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 10:38:26 how do i implement a 'length' procedure that works with cyclic lists, without using O(n) of space? 10:38:49 my simple algorithm would keep a reference to every pair i have visited so far 10:40:53 obvious, you store 3 items 10:41:39 item1 = beginning of list, and item2 & item3 can be iterators in a double-for loop 10:42:32 or a less obvious method is to have them moving at different speeds 10:42:38 like item2 ++ 10:42:42 item3 += 2 10:42:59 ahh 10:43:08 there are so many solutions 10:43:15 this is basic compsci 10:43:16 i heard about an algorithm with differnt speeds some time ago 10:43:26 but i cannot remember the name 10:43:33 du you know it? 10:43:37 i call it "obvious" 10:43:41 :) 10:43:45 thx anyway 10:43:52 erato: "Tortoise and hare" 10:44:05 that's what i head, thx 10:45:23 unless this is homework/exercise, you can just use length+ from srfi 1 10:46:11 it's a kind of exercise, i am trying to teach a c programmer how to write some clever algorithms 10:46:27 and due to that, i could use the names to simply give him some links :) 10:48:08 k4jd095b__ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 10:48:12 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:50:39 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:53:57 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #scheme 10:59:08 xwl [~user@114.250.48.255] has joined #scheme 11:00:15 -!- slilo` [~user@host-92-124-182-108.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:06:07 -!- ribbs [~ribbs@p024062.doubleroute.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:10:14 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:15:52 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 11:19:34 -!- k4jd095b__ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:33:24 -!- ASau``` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:05 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 11:34:08 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:46 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:41:28 sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:42:28 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42:37 alvatar [~alvatar@194.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:55:24 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 12:05:40 MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] has joined #scheme 12:07:37 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:00 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 12:37:42 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:59 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:56:37 -!- erato [~user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:17 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07:02 -!- Guest95837 [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:09 luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 13:21:32 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 13:31:48 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:33:10 hi! 13:33:51 is there any recommendation for doing things just with lists or better using records for types that you might use often? 13:35:32 the point is that I got used to do things as in SICP, but then I discovered records, which change things a bit 13:35:51 alvatar: IME one of the best things about Lisp is the ability to delay optimization until after you've got some ideas written: sometimes you can use lists in the beginning as you're exploring and then switch to records later. Most Scheme's offer some way of doing record types or even object-oriented systems. 13:36:22 There's also SRFI-9. 13:36:45 yes, that's a great thing of scheme that I have already tasted :) 13:36:54 so I'm happy I started with lists 13:37:08 but at the moment I *know* I will keep types like points, segments, etc 13:38:52 but besides some optimization, records offer also some type checking, is that right? 13:41:53 SRFI-9 provides you a way to check the type of something: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-9/srfi-9.html Their example uses pare? to find out if some value has a pare record type or not. But records also greatly enhance readability, since you can use the accessors and setters which are named for those record fields which they access or set. Much better than set-car! or set-cdr! for readability. 13:43:12 yep 13:43:57 however I just realize that using Gambit I have some kind of choice I have to clarify myself a bit: define-structure and define-record 13:45:05 define-record-type is SRFI-9, the other seems to be just Gambit's idea 13:45:21 Gambit's extension I mean 13:46:25 Yeah in Gambit before I've only used define-structure so I'm not sure if define-record-type sticks strictly to SRFI-9 or not. It seems not to be documented in the manual. 13:47:01 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 13:47:03 you know the *why* of define-structure? 13:47:32 vs define-record-type. They seem to tackle the same issue. 13:48:21 I don't. You might try the Gambit mailing list though if you're curious. 13:48:42 I think this might be the reason: "Unlike many record-defining macros or special forms, it does not create any new identifiers. Instead, the names of the record type, predicate, constructor, and so on are all listed explicitly in the source." from SRFI-9 13:49:53 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 13:51:40 Records seem to be one thing that nobody two people can quite agree on how to do "correctly." :-) 13:52:52 http://www.r6rs.org/r6rs-editors/2005-June/000664.html 13:58:38 alvatar: http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/RecordStandards 13:59:11 haptiK [~alsodongs@157.140.112.178] has joined #scheme 14:00:27 Many Scheme implementations had record-like facilities before SRFI-9 was introduced, and kept those for compatibility reasons. Some also provide name generation, which is not part of SRFI-9, though this can generally be done in syntax by a user if the underlying macro system supports it. 14:00:28 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:04:23 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 14:06:19 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 14:16:03 jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-teofzhhqchtlwblz] has joined #scheme 14:22:11 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:23 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 14:24:12 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 14:28:21 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:13 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:42:04 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:43:42 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:44:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 14:50:43 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:50:54 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:51:24 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-113-63.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 14:52:57 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:23 -!- KatieHuber is now known as KatieHuber|away 14:54:03 phao [~phao@189.107.189.167] has joined #scheme 14:54:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:02 -!- alexsuraci_ is now known as alexsuraci 14:55:04 hey metasyntax`, chandler: thanks! 14:55:09 I was having lunch 14:56:49 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@ip72-210-76-249.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:59:30 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:02:53 Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 15:08:57 -!- xwl [~user@114.250.48.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:27 -!- jao [~jao@83.57.5.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:24 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 15:50:10 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@unaffiliated/ada2358] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:51:33 adzuci [~ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:55:06 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:32 alexsuraci__ [~alexsurac@32.171.206.127] has joined #scheme 15:57:50 bweaver` [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:59:00 -!- KatieHuber|away is now known as KatieHuber 16:07:33 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:09:30 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:55 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 16:18:45 -!- alexsuraci__ [~alexsurac@32.171.206.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:02 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.168.25.225] has joined #scheme 16:28:03 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:06 gour [~gour@87.252.142.203] has joined #scheme 16:45:27 hello 16:45:36 hello 16:46:26 _Pb [~jcw@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 16:46:32 i may become involved a bit with learning scheme in order to tweak gnucash (guile), but since i'm learning haskell i'm just curios if there is some mature web framework available for scheme? 16:49:04 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@ip72-210-76-249.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:49:08 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055028045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:50:09 sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:51:13 gour: PLT-scheme has something along those lines. 16:51:24 -!- _Pb [~jcw@75.131.194.186] has left #scheme 16:51:28 masm: is it used? 16:51:33 Yes. 16:51:36 I use it. 16:51:41 -!- bweaver` [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:51:49 There is the continue server, also. 16:51:56 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:52:09 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-129-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:53:08 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f050129083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 16:53:16 Untyped guys use it. http://www.untyped.com/ 16:53:19 there are soma 'app' written for it? (i do not expect django eco-system, but something, since haskell is also not very rich) 16:53:51 I have an app written in it. 16:53:58 Internal use only, though. 16:54:31 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:32 ok. i'm not quite fan of happs and would prefer database back-end and ability to run on non-VPS 16:55:01 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:46 ziggurat [~quassel@pool-173-71-25-61.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:53 -!- KatieHuber is now known as KatieHuber|away 17:16:24 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 17:18:03 Daemmeru` [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 17:18:43 -!- sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:53 sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:22:00 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:25:06 -!- sepult`` is now known as sepult 17:27:12 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:56 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:31:06 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 17:37:48 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:27 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-232-182.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:44:23 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: elderK] 17:53:52 hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:51 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@194.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:10:19 alvatar [~alvatar@195.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 18:12:12 Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has joined #scheme 18:34:33 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-teofzhhqchtlwblz] has left #scheme 18:35:37 I just spent four and a half hours catching up on work email. I am never going on vacation again. 18:36:34 Or go on vacation forever. 18:37:06 But then I would not be able to afford the fine scotch, old cheese, and delicious life-giving kelp which keep me alive. 18:38:42 Hmmm. Maybe that's worth 4.5h or work email. :-) 18:40:05 That's what I keep telling myself! 18:40:24 Hey, are the WG1 and WG2 mailing list archives available via gmane? 18:40:45 Once I read that they are. 18:46:38 gnomon: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.scheme.reports.wg1 18:47:03 Yay! Thanks! 18:47:32 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@195.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:47:41 *gnomon* hugs gmane 18:58:46 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:07 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:04:34 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-232-182.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 19:08:04 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 19:12:22 -!- Daemmeru` [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 19:15:01 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 19:16:34 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:16 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:49 jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 19:26:36 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 19:28:26 TR2N [email@89-180-137-56.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 19:33:32 FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:37:47 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:41:31 alvatar [~alvatar@169.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 19:49:22 -!- gour [~gour@87.252.142.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:20 _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-kovufbnzflijdkrz] has joined #scheme 19:57:32 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:58:09 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 19:58:48 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 20:00:00 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:00:35 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:04:38 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:04:45 gnomon: Oh, hello! 20:06:16 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.84] has joined #scheme 20:08:18 Heya, chandler! 20:20:40 meltingw1x [~meltingwa@y.glue.umd.edu] has joined #scheme 20:21:53 -!- meltingw1x [~meltingwa@y.glue.umd.edu] has left #scheme 20:27:03 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 20:29:28 -!- MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:30:17 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:43 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:41:05 wingo [~wingo@48.Red-79-151-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:41:20 evening, schemetron 20:41:44 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-165.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:51:18 pjb [~t@241.Red-79-149-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:28 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:26 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@169.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:59:04 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:59:22 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:04:15 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: my favourite color is blue......NO, YELLOWWWWWWWWW] 21:05:17 -!- KatieHuber|away is now known as KatieHuber 21:14:31 -!- michalk [~michalk@chello089073134224.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:27 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:04 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:20 jcowan, would there be any interest in backporting the WG{1,2} archives into the gmane archives? 21:28:35 I know that it ought to be possible, but I don't know how much trouble it might be. 21:35:02 jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-qlhwlybdymzbzval] has joined #scheme 21:35:55 *jcowan* appears. 21:36:33 How wonderfully coincidental! 21:36:54 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 21:37:23 Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, 21:37:29 but three times, three times is enemy action, hey? 21:38:16 *mejja* puts on his tin foil hat 21:38:42 Anyhow, wherein lies the coincidence? 21:39:31 gnomon had addressed your nonexistent personage immediately prior: 21:39:38 17:28 < gnomon> jcowan, would there be any interest in backporting the WG{1,2} archives into the gmane archives? 21:39:41 jcowan, I was just asking your ethereal presence about the possibility of importing WG1 and WG2... 21:39:41 17:28 < gnomon> I know that it ought to be possible, but I don't know how much trouble it might be. 21:39:44 17:34 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-qlhwlybdymzbzval] has joined #scheme 21:39:48 ...curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough. 21:40:22 This round to you, elly. 21:40:34 woo. 21:40:39 *elly* won a round! \o/ 21:41:37 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:24 Sounds good to me, how is it to be done? 21:47:53 contact gmane people with an mbox? 21:48:38 I have no such mbox. 21:48:46 make one appear! 21:49:09 *wingo* rummages for ruby slippes 21:49:11 *slippers 21:49:16 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:53 *foof* has a maildir 21:52:17 foof to the rescue! 21:52:51 jcowan, the last time I checked in on gmane, it seemed that the import process was unpleasantly manual on the part of the admins on their end. That may have improved recently; I do not know. 21:53:10 However, if foof is willing to tar+bzip2 up a maildir, I would be happy to do the legwork! 21:55:26 Actually, "hato-fetch -f list-id=scheme-reports-wg1.googlegroups.com gmail mbox" should create an mbox for me. 21:55:31 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:25 adiabatic [~adiabatic@dsl-206-55-130-248.tstonramp.com] has joined #scheme 22:00:33 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:01:45 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:04:20 foof, reading the hato documentation reminded me of irregex. Have you read over Russ Cox's article about his/Google's new re2 regex engine? 22:05:12 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 22:08:12 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-165.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:39 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-165.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:08:44 fabe [~fabe@p54A7E07E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:09:09 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:09 hi 22:10:43 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.84] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 22:11:51 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:37 askhader [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 22:14:39 Does anyone know what the "maximum" string identity is in scheme?\ 22:15:09 A string, say x such that (string<=? a x) is always true where a is any string 22:15:31 gnomon: yep 22:15:48 ah ~ does it 22:15:54 A major overhaul of irregex has been on my TODO list for a while. 22:16:08 irregex! 22:16:10 <3 22:16:21 But Russ Cox is actually using the same utf-8 optimizations I had already put in irregex ;) 22:16:33 *foof* should've patented it so he could sue google 22:16:53 Well, your prior art has guaranteed the next best thing. 22:17:35 you should avoid suing google! 22:17:48 elly: Why is that? 22:17:51 (note to passers by: elly has been assimilated) 22:20:18 (yes) 22:23:39 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:07 bgs101 [~ian@h244.81.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #scheme 22:27:07 -!- bgs101 [~ian@h244.81.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:27:07 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:27:09 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:25 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:27:44 -!- jedc [~jedc@c-76-105-131-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:11 jedc [~jedc@c-76-105-131-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:28:18 askhader: First, R5RS does not propose a standard ordering for strings. 22:28:34 Second "z" < "zz" < "zzz " ..., so there can be no lexicographically greatest string. 22:29:11 but that's so negative. there are lexicographically great strings, like "ice cream" 22:29:30 *jcowan* thinks "yce cream" is far greater. 22:29:33 and who is to compare "ice cream" and "beer" 22:29:50 sure there can: (make-string (quotient total-memory 2) max-char) 22:29:55 Now R5RS *does* prescribe an answer to that; "ice cream" > "beer". 22:29:56 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f050129083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:30:12 You'll never be able to make a lexicographically larger string :) 22:30:26 foof: swapon! 22:31:30 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g230106153.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:31:46 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 22:32:09 foof: On the contrary, that is what I will always be able to make (a sort of 1/epsilon - 1/delta proof) 22:32:53 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- masm [~masm@bl9-115-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:54 -!- cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:32:55 -!- nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:33:36 jcowan: What I meant was that so long as you're holding on to that largest string, you won't have enough memory to create a lexicographically larger one (modulo adding more memory like elly suggested). 22:34:22 The next larger string exists, conceptually, you just can't allocate it :) 22:34:42 that's fine 22:34:47 transparent RPC with a proxy object 22:35:49 Or actually, so long as you have enough memory to allocate the maximum string size, then you can create the absolute largest string. 22:36:20 I could have a hidden procedural representation of certain strings, however. 22:36:28 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 masm [~masm@bl9-115-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:36:28 nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #scheme 22:37:04 e.g. make-immutable-string could return an object that just remembers the length and the initial value. 22:37:15 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-231-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:37:52 Well, as soon as I started talking about specific memory limits I was talking about specific implementations. 22:38:17 None of which have a procedural implementation of strings, to my knowledge. 22:38:22 Well, without a procedural implementation we have an upper bound of about 10^80 characters anyway. 22:39:09 Although I think there are some implementations that implement strings as lists of chars, and if they allow circular lists then you can create the true largest string. 22:40:36 anyone using geiser? and might be able to tell me how to disable company-mode by default for repls and scheme files? 22:40:39 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g230106153.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:26 i use geiser, but i haven't heard of company-mode 22:41:41 is it something you have in your .emacs? 22:41:58 well, i've tried to disable it in my .emacs! 22:42:06 it's an auto-completion ui thing 22:42:21 it's quite clever, but painfully slow 22:42:24 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7E07E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:32 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g225201035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:43:07 i would wait for jao to show up, or mail him at jao at gnu.org 22:44:14 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:44:19 ok thanks 22:44:20 ironChicken: I'd wager scheme-complete is cleverer and faster ;) 22:44:21 -!- luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 22:45:01 geiser's completion is pretty good tho 22:45:11 and you can't get more clever than asking the implementation :) 22:46:13 Yes you can. 22:46:34 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- masm [~masm@bl9-115-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:34 -!- cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:35 -!- nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:44 so geiser does completion even without company-mode enabled 22:46:50 ah, perhaps by clever you mean "often wrong"? 22:47:09 So many people think that's the best approach for some reason, but they forget the whole _purpose_ of auto-completion - editing code. 22:47:39 Which means the code is a work in progress, so it may not even parse, much less compile, much less get sensible type information from the implementation. 22:47:52 I thought the purpose of auto-completion was in *typing in* code rather than editing it proper. 22:48:09 Well, you know what I meant :) 22:48:19 sometimes you don't remember the spelling of a long function 22:48:24 and autodoc is nice :) 22:48:29 slime-style. 22:48:42 and with paredit, it almost certainly parses 22:50:22 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 masm [~masm@bl9-115-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #scheme 22:50:38 nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 22:50:40 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:51:10 Igby [~mightyfid@p50802F56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:51:11 -!- Igby [~mightyfid@p50802F56.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:11 elly_ [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 22:52:38 foof` [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 22:52:40 haesbaer1 [~haesbaert@c9155a20.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:53:15 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:23 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 22:53:44 http://www.screentoaster.com/watch/stU0lSRERIR1pYRFVdXVlRVFFV/company_mode_for_gnu_emacs 22:53:45 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/nxv4oj 22:53:50 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:50 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:50 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:50 -!- Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:51 -!- elly [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:51 -!- foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:51 -!- haesbaert [~haesbaert@c9155a20.virtua.com.br] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:51 -!- KatieHuber [~katie@cmiller.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:51 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:51 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:51 -!- Crito [~none@unaffiliated/crito] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:11 hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:54:12 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 22:56:16 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 22:56:49 -!- offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- masm [~masm@bl9-115-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:50 -!- cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:56:51 -!- nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:57:35 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g225201035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:07 -!- bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:32 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:59:23 Crito [~none@unaffiliated/crito] has joined #scheme 22:59:23 KatieHuber [~katie@cmiller.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 masm [~masm@bl9-115-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:59:26 nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #scheme 22:59:32 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:59:39 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:59:41 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g226230034.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 23:00:18 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:21 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:01:33 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 23:01:50 ironChicken: It has a prettier interface, but doesn't do much in the way of type inference or context-sensitivity. 23:02:46 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@ip72-210-76-249.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 23:03:21 -!- elly_ is now known as elly 23:07:02 -!- gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:02 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:04 Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 23:08:48 haptlK [~alsodongs@157.140.112.178] has joined #scheme 23:10:27 rrm3 [~rrm3@rrm3.org] has joined #scheme 23:10:45 rudybot_ [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 23:11:59 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-qlhwlybdymzbzval] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:13:57 sphex_ [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:14:19 -!- haptiK [~alsodongs@157.140.112.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:19 -!- rrm3_ [~rrm3@rrm3.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:19 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:20 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:20 -!- sphex [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:23 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 23:21:08 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 23:21:25 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:52 sad0ur_ [~sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 23:23:30 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:25:31 stepnem_ [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 23:25:33 Leonidas_ [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 23:25:58 mornfall_ [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 23:25:59 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:26:15 schmir [~schmir@p54A93228.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:27:03 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:27:03 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:03 -!- sad0ur [~sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:03 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:04 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:04 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:04 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 23:30:56 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A93228.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:27 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:51 pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #scheme 23:36:29 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 23:36:52 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:37:10 -!- jedc [~jedc@c-76-105-131-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:28 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:43 -!- Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:38:57 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.201] has joined #scheme 23:40:07 -!- dlouhy [~jdlouhy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:10 dlouhy [~jdlouhy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:40:35 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:41:06 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 23:43:48 Kusanagi [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:43:55 -!- Kusanagi [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:43:55 Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 23:50:05 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:52:56 foof`: what do you think of having an third parameter on sexp_read_from_string for the string length like on sexp_c_string? 23:54:06 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 23:54:27 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme