00:00:58 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-54-4.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:06:27 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.147.79] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:43 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 00:11:07 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:12:56 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-128-47.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:18 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:33 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:23:25 -!- doelie [~tom@173.111-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:39 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-vtwwoopyqtbgwefb] has joined #scheme 00:43:56 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:59 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:55:14 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-98.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00:34 marcob [~marco@host151-3-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 01:15:14 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-195-130.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:55 -!- borism [~boris@213-35-233-202-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [K-Lined] 01:17:26 wingo [~wingo@81.38.185.122] has joined #scheme 01:29:31 -!- wingo [~wingo@81.38.185.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:31:54 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:33:30 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:41:45 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.194.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:03 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 01:50:46 -!- marcob [~marco@host151-3-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: marcob] 01:53:52 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:25 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme 01:57:22 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:26 -!- Siriso [~user1@chello087207251048.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:28 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-vtwwoopyqtbgwefb] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:14:47 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:34:39 mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 02:34:49 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@wsip-70-184-255-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 02:35:58 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-253.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:55:12 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip68-0-123-16.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:56:33 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-193-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:25 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:00 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:08 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 03:10:27 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:15 -!- Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:51:54 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56:30 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176201039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:09:47 timj__ [~timj@e176218166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:37:09 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:39 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:47:25 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:55:33 jcowan: Your wiki page describes (rnrs records procedural 6) twice, slightly differently. 04:57:14 Oops. 05:02:29 Fixed. 05:04:14 *Fare* is looking for a speaker for March 29th or so at the Boston Lisp Meeting 05:05:59 The definition of "opaque" that someone added contradicts the sense in which it's used on the page, so I'm removing it. All these records are opaque in that sense. 05:07:46 Fare: Will you cover travel expenses? 05:07:59 From Japan?? 05:08:07 ^_^ 05:10:11 I don't like how the pros/cons for every aspect of every record design are split into separate pages. 05:10:24 eventually: "you win a million dollar... a dollar a century" 05:11:14 There's an add-on [[Include(Page)]] macro that would let me fix it easily, but for now I guess I'll just refactor it manually. 05:17:59 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 05:18:42 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:21:46 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:27:16 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 05:31:24 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:37:21 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 05:39:23 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:55:50 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: elderK] 05:56:16 elderK [~elderK@125-236-161-142.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:56:16 -!- elderK [~elderK@125-236-161-142.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 05:56:16 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 06:02:53 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip68-0-123-16.tu.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 06:31:33 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-98.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:33:27 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-108-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 06:46:55 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:48:18 elderK [~elderK@125-236-161-142.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:48:18 -!- elderK [~elderK@125-236-161-142.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 06:48:18 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 06:59:07 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:00:28 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:42 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:05:48 Lajla [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 07:08:04 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: elderK] 07:17:18 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.128.198] has left #scheme 07:39:03 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 08:13:33 -!- foof [~user@FL1-118-110-11-244.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:15:01 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-98.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:25:26 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:46:57 phao [~phao@189.107.128.44] has joined #scheme 09:19:51 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:26:35 -!- pjb [~t@214.Red-88-30-99.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:10 frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #scheme 09:40:27 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.194.233] has joined #scheme 09:55:13 wingo [~wingo@81.38.185.122] has joined #scheme 09:56:19 Slom [~a@pD9EB733F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:56:31 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 10:02:05 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055127193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:37 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055018120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:04:55 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:21 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 10:34:45 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 10:35:18 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:39:15 adiabatic [~adiabatic@dsl-206-55-130-248.tstonramp.com] has joined #scheme 10:43:19 foof [~user@FL1-118-110-11-244.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 10:44:37 -!- wingo [~wingo@81.38.185.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:49:39 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:42 -!- ray [ray@drong.notacat.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:06:42 -!- XTL [t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:07:31 XTL [t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 11:07:40 ray [ray@drong.notacat.org] has joined #scheme 11:23:58 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 11:27:44 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:56 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-91-64.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:30:56 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 11:31:09 -!- adiabatic [~adiabatic@dsl-206-55-130-248.tstonramp.com] has quit [Quit: Rockin music will set you free.] 11:43:21 pjb [~t@80.29.251.247] has joined #scheme 11:44:11 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-91-64.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:22:27 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-26-97.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:29:34 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:18 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 12:50:56 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 12:51:24 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5B5D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:53:36 -!- noam [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:50 noam [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #scheme 12:54:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-26-97.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55:16 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:02:13 xwl [~user@123.115.125.69] has joined #scheme 13:06:18 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-8-4.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 13:17:54 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:21 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:23:21 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:30:18 marcob [~marco@host76-71-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 13:31:45 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-109-248.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:32:52 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-8-4.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:13 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-8-4.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 13:34:27 -!- KatieHuber is now known as KatieHuber|away 13:35:44 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-86.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:40:34 -!- marcob [~marco@host76-71-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 13:41:08 alvatar [~alvatar@98.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 13:43:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-109-248.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:48:54 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 14:03:20 wingo [~wingo@81.38.185.122] has joined #scheme 14:05:54 -!- pjb [~t@80.29.251.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:59 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-30-12.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:35:00 haole [~ivan@187.23.80.198] has joined #scheme 14:36:20 hello there... i want to create procedures that can define other procedures like this: let's say i call (make-my-type type)... then, i would get a procedure called (make-type ...)... where do i start looking to be able to do that? :) 14:39:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-30-12.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:45:36 mickn [~mickn@75-119-253-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 14:51:05 haole: in your Scheme's documentation, look for syntax case, explicit renaming or syntactic closure macros 14:51:45 or... defmacros :) 14:51:55 *sjamaan* shudders 14:54:48 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:59:09 -!- xwl [~user@123.115.125.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:25 -!- Slom [~a@pD9EB733F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 15:00:47 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 15:13:21 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:13:57 hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:20:21 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:23:08 doelie [~tom@173.111-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #scheme 15:34:17 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:34:24 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-8-4.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:46:31 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:46:33 -!- doelie [~tom@173.111-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:47:25 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:52:08 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-128-47.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:36 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5B5D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:06:23 algokick [~algokick@100.133.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:16:50 is there a function to find an element in a list and return its position? i'm looking for it for the past 10 minutes and can't find it 16:17:38 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@98.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:23 alvatar [~alvatar@98.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:19:59 haole: SRFI-1 has a LIST-INDEX procedure 16:21:50 sjamaan, thanks, i was looking at r5rs 16:22:16 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:03 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-sglglygrnsdxahqc] has joined #scheme 16:25:13 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-128-47.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:33 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 16:25:37 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:26:25 -!- mickn [~mickn@75-119-253-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:55 Sergio`_ [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 16:27:55 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:32 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 16:41:11 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:43:20 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 16:43:37 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:10 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:15 -!- algokick [~algokick@100.133.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:51:33 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 16:51:34 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:15 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 16:58:07 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 16:59:52 -!- Sergio`_ [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:19 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 17:01:18 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:02:34 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 17:02:55 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:24 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-119.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 17:08:22 _Pb [~jcw@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 17:11:27 <_Pb> I'm running dreamscheme, which comes with no debugger. Is there some kind of portable debugger out there that I could run my files through? 17:11:33 <_Pb> the error messages are awful 17:15:02 i had never heard of dream scheme. sounds like fun :) 17:15:33 personally i do not know of a portable debugger, no. 17:15:58 <_Pb> it's written in asm 17:16:07 <_Pb> ah 17:20:29 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 17:24:10 -!- _Pb [~jcw@75.131.194.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:24 _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 17:28:00 pjb [~t@80.29.251.247] has joined #scheme 17:33:45 -!- haole [~ivan@187.23.80.198] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:34:27 _Pb: there is psd (portable scheme debugger) for use with emacs, but it is old and unmaintained: ftp://ftp.cs.tut.fi/pub/src/languages/schemes/ 17:35:59 <_Pb> sloyd: thanks, I saw that, maybe I should try it out 17:36:22 <_Pb> I should probably just use a pretty-printer to check my programs, I seem to be making a lot of paren balancing mistakes 17:36:56 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-24-188.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 17:38:51 which editor do you use? most should be able to match parens and some, like emacs and drscheme, will indent for you 17:41:38 <_Pb> vim, but I'm sometimes forget to add all the parens in forms like let 17:42:05 <_Pb> which is more than a simple balancing issue, i guess 17:46:11 pjb` [~t@95.124.37.67] has joined #scheme 17:48:34 -!- pjb [~t@80.29.251.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:51:52 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:52:29 _Pb: I think that the time and effort to learn Emacs with paredit is worth it. paredit turns Emacs into an editor that's tailor-made for editing Scheme (and other Lisp-like languages). You'll never make an unbalanced paren mistake with it. 17:53:02 I second that 17:54:23 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 17:54:52 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 17:57:25 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:01:39 <_Pb> it's even able to detect problems with forms like let? 18:01:55 <_Pb> like, if I do (let (x 5) '()) rather than (let ((x 5)) '()) 18:03:55 don't think so, no 18:03:56 No, it doesn't do that 18:04:19 <_Pb> well, I plan on using emacs anyway, I've dabbled in it and its REPL support is enough to make one want to switch from vim 18:04:19 It allows you to write your code more or less in terms of tree operations 18:04:23 <_Pb> ah 18:04:27 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:19 <_Pb> maybe I should just use a scheme that prints out better errors, but there aren't many with decent graphics lib support 18:05:54 heh 18:05:57 That's true enough :) 18:06:43 <_Pb> I want to use scheme and SDL, so I may as well move over to gambit, which has a very nice FFI 18:07:42 Chicken's FFI is very nice too 18:08:06 It has an sdl egg, but I don't know how good it is 18:08:41 <_Pb> it's very old, the gambit sdl lib works pretty well though 18:09:36 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:58 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-98.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:09 TR2N [email@89-180-137-177.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 18:26:45 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-24-188.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29:06 -!- foof [~user@FL1-118-110-11-244.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:32:25 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:39:07 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:17 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:47 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: my favourite color is blue......NO, YELLOWWWWWWWWW] 18:44:24 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:15 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 18:56:22 mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 18:59:26 toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:59:35 -!- toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:21 masm [~masm@bl7-36-176.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:03:23 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-98.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:09:20 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:17:00 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 19:18:26 schemer999_ [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:19:28 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:35 jjjj2_ [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:39 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:38 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:24:37 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-sglglygrnsdxahqc] has quit [] 19:26:07 -!- jjjj2_ [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:26:27 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:27:08 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-209-188.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:28:49 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-182-168.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:29:40 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35:33 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-86.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:35:49 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-86.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:37:26 HG` [~HG@xdslec201.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 19:37:32 -!- KatieHuber|away is now known as KatieHuber 19:43:47 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@98.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:45:09 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:48 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-182-168.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:57:44 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-194-69-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 20:01:22 saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-68-179.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:13:00 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-108-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 20:25:59 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:31:27 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-194-69-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:34:11 SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 20:35:19 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 20:39:21 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:56 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:34 Nanakhiel [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 20:47:12 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:49:24 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:56:36 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 21:00:00 will (eq? a b) produce ALWAYS the same result (= a b) will produce if a and b are valid arguments for both procedures? 21:00:31 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:01:40 phao, looks like not: (eq? 1.1 1.1) => #f 21:01:48 but they are eqv? 21:02:13 yeah... here its false too 21:07:42 I don't understand... if eq? is to compare symbols 21:07:53 why does it accepts things like 1 and 3 as arguments? 21:08:10 eq? is to compare arbitrary objects for exact equality 21:08:40 In most schemes that will return #t only for immediate objects and equal pointers to the same object 21:09:04 You can only reliably and portably use it to compare symbols, () and (iirc) characters 21:09:04 what is "immediate objects"? 21:09:17 Objects that are represented in memory directly 21:09:21 ie, not pointers 21:09:56 hmm ok. 21:10:18 (well, symbols are probably pointers, but those are "special" in that all equal symbols always share the same memory) 21:10:19 I'm going to make my symbol-eq? then 21:10:37 What will symbol-eq? do? 21:10:56 like eq? but will return some kind of erro 21:11:02 error* 21:11:02 if its arguments are not symbols 21:12:15 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 21:13:56 http://pastie.org/869480 21:14:23 and pairs 21:14:37 wingo, ? 21:14:49 things useful to compare with eq? 21:14:58 any heap object really.. 21:15:18 yes, but (eq? (list 1 2) (list 1 2)) => #f 21:15:23 here too... 21:15:25 It's only useful if you want to know if it's the same pair 21:15:37 > (eq? (cons 1 2) (cons 1 2)) 21:15:37 #f 21:15:43 (let ((x (list 1 2)) (y (list 1 2))) (eq? x y)) => #t 21:16:11 > (define a (cons 1 2)) 21:16:11 > (define b (cons 1 2)) 21:16:11 > (eq? a b) 21:16:11 #f 21:16:22 argh 21:16:35 (let* ((x (list 1 2)) (y x)) (eq? x y)) => #t 21:16:38 My mistake 21:16:40 (it's late) 21:16:51 Well 21:16:54 I'll stick with symbols. 21:17:39 *sjamaan* grabs another beer and goes AFK before making any further embarrasments 21:19:57 agreed, but identity is important sometimes :) 21:20:03 *wingo* should also grab another beer 21:20:35 -!- ray [ray@drong.notacat.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:18 phao: The behavior of `eq?' on numbers (and characters) is a twenty-five year mistake, nothing else. There's essentially no use to `eq?' returning #f on `eqv?' numbers. 21:25:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-209-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:10 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 21:26:13 chandler has an opinion! 21:26:49 there is no use, true. 21:27:03 I have several, in fact. 21:27:29 one would not want to complicate what is essentially a pointer comparison operation, tho. 21:28:39 sorry but 21:28:49 do I have to worry about pointers in scheme? 21:28:57 it looks really unnecessary to talk about pointers here 21:30:56 wingo: But *why* is it a pointer comparison? 21:31:13 for implementations of course 21:31:34 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-209-188.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:32:13 But what semantic advantage does it have? Does it allow me to express something that would be otherwise inexpressible? 21:32:33 not for numbers, of course 21:32:40 For characters? 21:33:18 possibly? :) 21:33:29 I sincerely doubt it. 21:33:55 there are loads of places when you're compiling and you can't inline something because an operation must create a new object 21:34:00 for purposes of eq 21:36:09 There's no such situation for characters or numbers, as there's no guarantees made about this at all. An implementation in which `eqv?' and `eq?' behave identically is perfectly allowable by the RnRS. 21:36:11 there's a spectrum of equality operators, and scheme just has three 21:36:27 indeed, and it would be a slow implementation :) 21:36:34 It would? 21:37:05 having to check for type when checking identity? yes 21:37:17 On non-numbers and characters, it's a constant amount of overhead. 21:37:22 eq? is not about value, it is about identity. 21:37:42 *wingo* makes stuff up 21:37:57 :) 21:38:32 But eq? could just as easily always return #f on numbers and characters, whilst still complying to the letter of the RnRS. 21:38:48 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:39:10 *chandler* vanishes to search for food. 21:39:27 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:27 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 21:40:18 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:09 as I read the old rnrs mailing list, basically there are two views: 1) objects have locations/identities and you can check whether two are the same, 2) objects can be equivalent and you can check for that 21:54:00 eq? is the first and eqv? is the second, except they got messed up and R5RS even contradicts itself 21:55:33 on the one hand it says (eqv? (lambda (x) x) (lambda (x) x)) => unspecified, on the other hand it says it returns #t if obj1 and obj2 are procedures whose location tags are equal 21:55:42 and each procedure created as the result of evaluating a lambda expression is (conceptually) tagged with a storage location, in order to make eqv? and eq? work on procedures 21:57:39 oh, nevermind, apparently it doesn't return #f if the location tags are unequal 21:57:43 *sloyd* grmbls 22:00:35 -!- SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:37 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:03:19 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslec201.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:06 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:03 elderK [~elderK@125-236-161-142.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:08:03 -!- elderK [~elderK@125-236-161-142.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 22:08:03 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 22:35:42 doelie [~tom@cust-212-62-109-94.dyn.as47377.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:47 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 22:46:08 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.128.44] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:21 -!- KatieHuber is now known as KatieHuber|away 22:50:22 phao [~phao@189.107.128.44] has joined #scheme 22:54:22 -!- KatieHuber|away is now known as KatieHuber 23:06:34 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-68-179.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:10:48 bohunm [~mbohun@202.124.74.39] has joined #scheme 23:12:15 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:21 -!- doelie [~tom@cust-212-62-109-94.dyn.as47377.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:20:52 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:21:45 -!- wingo [~wingo@81.38.185.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:22:53 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: elderK] 23:28:11 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:23 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 23:34:39 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:39:04 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:46 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59:52 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]