00:01:49 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-235-15-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:03:39 -!- samth [~samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:04:33 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-146-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:04:45 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-146-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:10:14 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:12:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:16:29 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 00:17:30 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:17:37 -!- marcob [~marco@host162-93-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 00:24:11 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:28:12 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.92.1] 00:36:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:37:02 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-235-15-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:01 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:41:33 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: melba] 00:41:55 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-235-15-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:43:36 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 00:48:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:49:56 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:50:13 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-221.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:52:16 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:52:22 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:54:09 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 00:55:33 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:56:03 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 01:01:09 "Safe when used as directed" 01:10:07 sicp talks about some primitive called "runtime" that is a procedure that returns the amount of time the program kept running so far 01:10:14 that doesn't seem to be present on plt scheme 01:10:23 is there anything similar there? 01:11:43 rudybot: doc time-apply 01:11:49 chandler: your scheme sandbox is ready 01:11:51 chandler: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/time.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._time-apply)) 01:12:04 See also `time': 01:13:06 rudybot: eval (time (for ((i (in-range 1 10000))) i)) 01:13:07 chandler: ; stdout: "cpu time: 0 real time: 0 gc time: 0\n" 01:13:13 (Well, duh.) 01:17:36 -!- mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:04 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:17 phao: (define runtime (let ((epoch (current-milliseconds))) (lambda () (- (current-milliseconds) epoch)))) 01:21:18 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:47 rudybot: init scheme 01:21:50 Daemmerung: your scheme sandbox is ready 01:21:56 rudybot: eval (define runtime (let ((epoch (current-milliseconds))) (lambda () (- (current-milliseconds) 01:21:56 epoch)))) 01:21:57 Daemmerung: error: eval:1:65: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 01:22:19 no cut and paste here... 01:22:53 rudybot: eval (define runtime (let ((epoch (current-milliseconds))) (lambda () (- (current-milliseconds) epoch)))) 01:23:04 rudybot: eval (runtime) 01:23:04 Daemmerung: ; Value: 11128 01:23:10 rudybot: eval (runtime) 01:23:10 Daemmerung: ; Value: 17120 01:23:13 etc.,etc. 01:24:34 -!- masm [~masm@bl5-106-117.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #scheme 01:25:18 karme [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-001-160.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 01:26:38 foof: ping 01:33:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:00 masm [~masm@bl5-106-117.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 01:35:32 -!- masm [~masm@bl5-106-117.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36:01 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:41 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:39:11 pong 01:43:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 01:48:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:48:58 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 01:58:35 Is there any book out there explaining how things worked in the old days, how it works now and why the changes were made? (in terms of software engineering) 01:59:21 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:03:25 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:03:59 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 02:08:35 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:13:17 That's kind of vague. 02:14:07 Heh. I kinda knew, but I realy don't know to be more specific. 02:14:10 Or meaningful 02:14:30 People don't write software the same way they did some decades ago 02:14:31 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:43 I'd like to see how they did before so I can compare to how it's done how 02:14:50 and I'd like to kind of reasons why it changed 02:14:55 because not everything changed afaik 02:15:00 Well, we have more memory and speed to play with. 02:15:22 That's the obvious point. Old-style programs had to do everything a little at a time, and couldn't afford to just throw resources at problems. 02:16:19 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:22:26 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:15 When the GNU project started, programmers were told to try to avoid using the same algorithms as Unix programs: in particular, they could assume the presence of at least 1 MB of memory. Most Unix programs in those days assumed 64K at most. 02:25:21 old programs would also assume their INPUTS were small 02:25:26 Indeed. 02:25:57 A famous study fed random bytes to various versions of classical Unix utilities. The GNU versions held up the best, because they didn't die if a line was more than 512 characters and things like that. 02:25:58 they would also assume the world is a nice place where nobody tries to abuse software. 02:25:59 jcowan: Hey there, how's it going? 02:26:10 Hey ho, arcfide. Been hoping to see you. 02:26:43 I have remarkably little to contribute to R7RS and feel ashamed as a committee member. 02:26:58 jcowan: Oh? 02:27:10 Nothing has really started yet. 02:27:16 Indeed, Fare. 02:27:28 There's not much going on at the moment. Just a lot of talking. :-) 02:27:41 I would not worry too much about it. 02:27:53 If your modules-as-syntax is to double as a Scheme48-style packaging standard, it needs to mark exported syntax keywords specially. 02:28:22 jcowan: Please note the edit I made to that proposal. There are a number things I'm going to change about that proposal soon. 02:28:34 Which version, the one on the wiki? 02:28:39 It does already have the concept of explicitly marked syntax keywords, however. 02:28:41 jcowan: Yes. 02:29:14 jcowan: I've actually been going over some of the past work a lot in this area, and I've been in discussions with Kent Dybvig which have been very enlightening about some particular questions I had. 02:29:22 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:30:03 Fortunately, there are many papers to read on modules. I've also been refactoring things in an attempt to reduce and simplify as much as necessary. 02:30:29 Good. 02:31:00 Samth raised the objection that if module Alice exports syntax, and Bob imports and re-exports it, Bob shouldn't have to know it's syntax -- specifically in the case of idetifier syntax. 02:31:02 I've got something shaping up, but there are some things I want to figure out first. 02:31:13 *jcowan* offers himself as a sounding-board 02:32:13 Yes, that's a good point, and that is compatible with what I have been thinking. 02:36:24 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:42:09 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:21 arcfide, you've seen the readscheme.org bibliography on modules? 02:47:50 -!- Len_ is now known as shinki_ 02:49:47 samth [~samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:53 Fare: I haven't read all of them yet. :-) 02:50:57 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 02:51:05 Fare: I don't see Aziz's Dissertation on there. 02:51:33 arcfide, the bibliography might not have been maintained recently 02:52:25 arcfide, if you read all of them and produce something, you might get a phd for it... except that they don't give a phd for making something useful, only for making something "novel" 02:57:39 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:58:00 Could making something that is useful be novel enough? 02:59:27 Oh, burn. 03:00:59 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:01:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:02:49 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-221.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:03:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 03:09:18 rotty: The debugging option SEXP_USE_DEBUG_GC assumes the stack grows downwards, otherwise no. 03:09:22 Fare, what bibliography were you pointing people to? 03:09:41 jcowan: pong 03:09:54 http://readscheme.org/modules/index.html 03:10:19 ah yes, that's pretty old 03:10:30 you have better? 03:10:35 you can update it? 03:10:56 who's in charge of that page? 03:11:02 i could send them some papers to add 03:11:42 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-001-160.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:05 whois says the owner of readscheme.org is James Bender 03:12:17 editor@readscheme.org 03:12:56 just from plt, there are at least 5 papers that should be there 03:12:57 foof: I've been talking in #lua with the Lua folks about a possible Lua/Chibi symbiosis 03:13:15 What would that mean? 03:13:21 on the lua vm? 03:13:45 samth: can you denounce a colleague as a potential speaker for the BLM? :) 03:13:51 With both VMs. It would be straightforward to translate Lua to Scheme (but not vice versa), but probably the translation would run more slowly. 03:13:55 "Denounce"? 03:13:55 samth: that would be a great goodness. Assuming that Bender actually reads the mailbox. 03:14:24 Fare, everyone has already spoken 03:14:29 jcowan, isn't that the word for putting someone in the hands of the Boston Lisp Police? 03:14:36 well, you could try stevie strickland 03:14:38 I guess. 03:14:54 What does the M stand for anyhow? 03:14:58 Meeting 03:15:17 I was thinking about providing hooks for alternate languages in the next release, with JavaScript syntax as a standard option. 03:15:46 But that would be just translating JavaScript to Scheme on the fly and using a different standard environment. 03:16:18 one thing I'd be interested for a module system is the ability to declare your language without specifying a unique language processor. 03:16:20 e.g. loading foo.js would interpret the file as JavaScript. 03:16:51 Fare, samth: I don't mind doing it for April, but I'd prefer not to for March, given deadlines. 03:16:57 So you could (at least in theory) have a program that can be manipulated in many ways, the semantics of which has been declared. 03:17:12 samth, you summoned him, too! 03:17:25 sstrickl, you're in for April! 03:17:32 The Lua VM can be quite fast because it only supports coroutines, not full continuations, among other things. 03:17:41 Also fewer datatypes and other reasons. 03:17:46 sstrickl, can you send me by email a title, 1-para blurb about the talk, 1-para blurb about yourself? 03:17:56 In the Chibi design you don't pay for continuations unless you use them. 03:18:00 yesterday, I had no speakers, today I have two. Woohoo! 03:18:14 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 03:18:23 foof, have you looked at the javascript package for PLT? 03:18:28 Fare: I can do that -- how far in advance do you want it? Need to decide exactly what I'll be talking about :) 03:18:36 (and when is the April meeting approximately, anyway?) 03:18:38 samth: Didn't know there was one, I'll take a look. 03:18:54 http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=javascript.plt&owner=dherman 03:18:58 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yuf3m3 03:18:59 I've written a Scheme->JS compiler already, but not the other way around yet, 03:19:01 sstrickl, if you can send before March 26, it would be great -- then I can announce it at next BLM 03:19:32 Fare: Will do -- if I haven't by the day before, send me a ping. 03:19:38 I will 03:19:44 -!- shinki_ is now known as Len_ 03:20:26 On the Chibi side, things are fairly easy. Lua has only one mutable data structure, the table (a combination of vector, hashtable, and dynamic environment). 03:21:18 sstrickl, thanks! 03:21:40 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: schemer999] 03:21:51 So if Chibi can create a Lua "state" (interpreter object, in C) and get at its root environment, then it could use (from Lua's C api) the constructor, mutator, and accessor. 03:21:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:22:45 Checkie [3903@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 03:23:29 (wow, js has a lot of syntax) 03:23:31 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:23:54 Lua's only other datatypes are immutable strings, doubles, functions, coroutines, nil, and blobs (which Lua cannot manipulate, only pass to C) 03:25:05 So tables can be shared, and it's easy to wrap Lua functions and coroutines as Scheme functions. 03:25:45 I don't know what one can do to Chibi from C, though. Is there an API for 03:25:51 manipulating individual Chibi objects? 03:26:04 Sort of, it's just not documented. 03:26:21 jengle [~45002463@gateway/web/freenode/x-ktqzhttffajwzkfv] has joined #scheme 03:26:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:26:44 sexp.h provides accessors for all the standard object slots, which are also valid as lvalues. 03:26:58 Is there an apply-equivalent, or do you have to construct code and call eval? 03:27:13 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 03:27:36 There's sexp_apply, you wouldn't need to call eval from the Lua side. 03:27:46 *jcowan* nods. 03:28:34 jcowan, with you in March, we'll be celebrating 2 years of BLM. 03:30:46 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-253-135.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:31:23 But I think for selling Chibi as an extension language, the primary obstacle is parenphobia. 03:32:04 And since Lua has a somewhat odd syntax as well, my best bet is to support something like EcmaScript syntax. 03:32:12 I love the names used in scheme 03:32:18 Louis calls his friend Eva Lu Ator 03:32:22 Alyssa P. Hacker 03:32:31 Eva Lu Ator is the best 03:32:35 ops 03:32:37 in SICP 03:32:48 Louis Reasoner 03:32:55 Ben Bitdiddler 03:33:03 Lua's not so odd. 03:33:24 lua isn't 03:33:34 It's *very* widely used as an extension language, much more so than JavaScript. 03:33:38 I was just going to say. It is very vanilla. 03:33:43 ops 03:33:46 sorry jcowan 03:33:48 wrong message 03:33:49 And it will not make you tear your hair out, as implementing JS will. 03:33:49 The great taste of BASIC. 03:33:55 ignore that "lua isn't" 03:33:56 what? lua? 03:34:13 Hardly Basic. Lexical scope, coroutines, closures, .... 03:34:19 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:24 I meant in terms of non-frightening-ness. 03:34:33 I like Lua. A lot. 03:34:37 Ah, syntactically. Yes. 03:35:07 Because I can recommend it to somebody, and not have them flee immediately from scary S-expressions, and still have left them with a language that Doesn't Suck. 03:35:49 *jcowan* nods. 03:35:54 Talking with LHF on #lua now 03:36:23 Well, Lua has an `end' keyword instead of braces, and newlines are meaningful. 03:37:30 True. But most people who write it are not C weenies, or even think of themselves as programmers at all. 03:37:30 Although, actually, newlines are meaningful in EcmaScript too :( 03:37:35 Alas. 03:37:53 Everybody knows that braces are for teh fast code. Aerodynamic and all. 03:38:19 What, putting those little bumps into the airstream? Nah. 03:38:20 So why is Fortran faster than C? :) 03:38:27 jcowan: just like a golf ball 03:38:28 Noalias. 03:38:37 (Seriously.) 03:38:43 wm4 [~luser@p5080B1CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:26 I meant aerodynamically ;) 03:39:36 *jcowan* nods. 03:39:58 20 more years of free-falling toward terminal velocity. 03:43:49 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:54 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 03:46:01 foof: Though if you aren't worried about browser compatibility, you could implement JavaScript: The Good Parts, which is much less messy. 03:46:33 jcowan: Long term, a browser is on my TODO list. 03:47:48 Very long term, I hope 03:48:41 Well, basically I think my Emacs replacement should have browser functionality. 03:49:11 Intrigued by ideas, wish to subscribe to newsletter, etc 03:49:43 -!- jengle [~45002463@gateway/web/freenode/x-ktqzhttffajwzkfv] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:50:27 Which is not the same as saying it will play in the Firefox/Chrome/Safari league. 03:50:57 it depends on what you use the web for 03:51:00 I guess 03:51:45 For watching cats jump into boxes you need one of those, for reading text, any browser will do :P 03:51:49 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-221.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:15 -!- wm4 [~luser@p5080B1CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 03:53:18 The only thing difficult about a browser is the rendering, taking into account the DOM and CSS. 03:53:44 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53:53 which is pretty difficult :P 03:55:54 foof: are you florian loitsch? 03:55:58 Well, it is the _long_ term plan. 03:57:16 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57:33 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:58:05 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:58:05 Maybe 5 years before there's anything usable on the browser front. 03:58:24 That is indeed a long-term plan. 03:58:55 I have an Emacs clone for Chicken that supports Unicode and vertical writing, but I want to rewrite it. 04:00:00 -!- samth [~samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:02:37 SharkBrain [~gerard@118-93-23-48.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 04:02:46 ... and this margin is too small 04:03:01 Note to self: get foof interested in something that I need 04:08:34 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: schemer999] 04:09:25 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:19:18 sundaymorning: nope 04:20:07 I didn't even realize that was a name at first, I was about to retaliate "Your mother's a florian loitsch!" 04:20:21 foof: are you Mary, Queen of Scots? 04:20:27 hehe 04:20:39 seems like the author of a programa called scheme2js 04:20:47 I fear he fails at least two of three eligibility criteria 04:21:05 No /true/ Scheme hacker.... 04:21:50 Not being female and not being Scottish, I mean. 04:22:15 *foof* is 1/8 Scottish 04:22:52 You need not be a Scot to rule over the Scots, and you need not be female to be a great Queen. Nevertheless, okay. 04:23:01 But born in London. 04:23:10 *copumpkin* was too! 04:25:30 I don't think any non-Scot has ever been King/Queen of Scots (not so in England, of course) 04:27:19 bloody Sassenach 04:31:34 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:34:34 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:50 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:36:22 Who, me? 04:36:24 I'm Irish/German. 04:38:18 German potato farmer on one side, "Scots-Irish" chicken farmer on the other. (Funny that all the True Scotsmen I know are Canucks.) 04:38:38 Bloody Prod. 04:38:57 *jcowan* is half Prod, half Papist. 04:39:54 All Prod here until my father for some reason converted 04:39:54 you guys certainly know a lot of words I never heard of 04:40:36 See, if you read more comic books that wouldn't be a problem. 04:41:44 I really like SICP, but it's a real issue... sometimes I just cannot understand what they're asking for in the exercise. 04:43:29 phao: if in doubt, answer with: 42 04:43:41 I have that problem with books other than SICP. I think it's endemic to anything written in human language. 04:44:09 mornfall, ? 04:44:43 the problem with sicp the way I see it, is that sicp uses too much math as examples of building programs 04:44:49 it seems that, sometimes, the people who wrote SICP wanted to "write beautifully" 04:44:51 and it backfired. 04:44:56 it could be more initutive 04:45:15 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 04:45:59 but that is minor complaints from my end 04:46:14 well 04:46:16 all in all, its something of a gem with CS 04:46:33 I think the opposite 04:46:57 If you start "doing math" 04:47:12 and you don't finish it, you'll confuse the "target person" 04:47:20 because they won't know where you are being intuitive 04:47:22 and where you aren't. 04:48:02 -!- sundaymorning [~roo1@189.107.184.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:55:43 Hmm...I like SICP. 04:56:02 I've been following it on and off, but it shouldn't be your only resource. 04:56:49 Eh...night. 04:56:59 I'm not using it as an 'resource' as in reference 04:57:02 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:04 I'm reading it to learn what is in it. 04:59:30 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:06:23 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-235-15-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:10:11 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:10:28 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:12:48 nullpo [~nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:17:23 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:30:21 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: schemer999] 05:52:07 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:09:04 metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:13:14 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:16:14 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 06:19:37 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:22:58 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.93.1] 06:26:56 chandler: Do you happen to have that example of the chicken hygiene bug? 06:44:52 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 06:50:06 -!- SharkBrain [~gerard@118-93-23-48.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:03:20 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 07:07:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:09:01 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 07:12:11 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:26 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 07:13:14 foof: ping 07:28:29 -!- Sergio`_ [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:29 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:47 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:29:43 *arcfide* yodels through the network in search of foof. 07:30:30 Gonna grab him and make him fix Chibi, huh? 07:31:16 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:33:36 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:37:36 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.169.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:38:02 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 07:57:54 :O 08:01:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:02:06 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 08:04:40 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:50 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:10 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 08:19:50 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23:16 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.142.81] has left #scheme 08:32:26 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 08:37:38 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:44:00 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:44:38 wingo [~wingo@83.44.189.229] has joined #scheme 08:48:22 hey 08:54:12 -!- kilimanjaro 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[~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 11:00:27 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:12:52 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 11:22:37 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:51 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:37 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:10:45 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:12:37 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 12:48:55 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 12:48:59 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 12:50:36 mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 12:53:22 incubot: All electrons are not created equal. Only Bloom Energy delivers electrons that are clean and reliable and affordable all at the same time and just for you. That makes them better electrons. 12:53:25 You could use bloom filters too. 12:53:55 incubot: Bloom manages and maintains the system 24/7/365. All you see are the benefits from better electrons. 12:53:58 let 1,000 flowers bloom 12:55:17 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-5-139.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 12:55:22 incubot: From humble beginnings on Mars, Bloom Energy is now changing the Earth for the better. 12:55:25 Well, I'm currently cranking out a bunch of Lamb and Underworld tunes from the stereo, pondering exactly what kind of food I'm going to prepare, and working on finishing my JavaScript Bloom filter implementation. It's quite rough around the edges right now, but I'm so close to finishing it that I can see the finish line just over the next hill. 12:55:40 reynard [~alan@n11211829114.netvigator.com] has joined #scheme 12:58:15 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:01:57 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 13:09:35 -!- mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 13:11:51 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:12:49 -!- reynard [~alan@n11211829114.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:13:45 alvatar [~alvatar@158.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 13:23:19 choas [~lars@p5B0DD64B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:25:06 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-235-15-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:40:41 Blkt [~user@net-93-145-61-8.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 13:43:46 I think the goal to use currently produced biogas is a good one, but I would have less of a problem with them if they admitted they're using dino natural gas right now 13:44:17 Adamant: too bad biogas means less food for humans. 13:44:38 pjb: not necessarily, if it's done from animal or plant waste 13:44:53 of which there is a fair amount, but not enough to solve the problem 13:44:56 -!- nullpo [~nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:45:03 but it would make a good start. 13:45:39 IIRC I thought a lot of biogas came from agricultural waste and animal manure 13:46:19 I should clarify, I mean propane or natural gas like stuff with "biogas" 13:46:32 not ethanol from corn or similar stuff 13:47:24 Well there have also been cases where they displaced food cultures for biogas plants... 13:48:16 good point 13:49:55 I'm not sure taking over cropland to use for a biogas plant is a real problem in the US, but I could definitely see it being one in some places that are more land-constrained. 13:51:54 and I could be off in my estimation for the US, you'd have to factor in a bunch of things. 13:57:05 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:59:11 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 14:04:56 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:52 metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:15:42 rickardg [~user@c213-89-196-180.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 14:15:48 karme [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-001-160.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 14:15:48 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:16:02 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16:14 samth [~samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:22:22 sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 14:22:22 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 14:22:22 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 14:30:04 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BDC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:33:07 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-146-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: "That's our secret... we kill you with kindness. What's your secret?"] 14:44:45 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-235-15-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:51:00 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 14:52:09 Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 14:54:58 hi! 14:55:16 how can I select one of the values returned by (value) 14:55:25 ? 14:56:08 I'm trying to use SRFI-1's (span) and it returns two lists. I need to take one, append something, and append the second one 14:56:45 (append the second one's tail, but that's not the problem here) 14:57:12 for instance, (span even? '(2 18 3 10 22 9)) produces two lists. How do I take one? 14:57:32 specbot: r5rs call-with-values 14:57:33 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_574 14:57:34 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5pbxgd 14:57:50 There are also RECEIVE and LET-VALUES 14:57:54 But those are SRFIs 14:59:04 I see 14:59:13 thanks sjamaan 14:59:31 yw 15:00:17 It seems to me that i'm doing something wrong, because finding an element in a list, removing it and inserting one or more elements in place seems as an easy task, but using continuations is not :) 15:00:43 continuations? 15:00:47 Where do those come in? 15:01:36 oh, the description in R5RS mentions them 15:01:45 Well, it's simple. Just ignore the mention of continuations ;) 15:01:46 ah, call with values is just close to call/cc, nothing to do with ti 15:02:03 yep :) 15:02:05 -!- foof [~user@FL1-118-110-51-236.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:08 foof [~user@FL1-118-110-51-236.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 15:02:14 luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 15:04:05 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:09:17 sundaymorning [~roo1@189.107.184.230] has joined #scheme 15:09:32 alvatar: Gambit natively supports SRFI 8, which is a lot easier to use than `call-with-values'. 15:09:51 Naturally, though, this fact cannot be discovered in the documentation. 15:09:57 heh 15:11:57 *karme* wants values->list 15:11:57 :) 15:12:11 karme: (call-with-values (lambda () ...) list) 15:12:16 Daemmerung: thanks! I'll look into srfi-8 now 15:12:24 Or just (receive the-list ...) 15:12:33 yeah sure, something like that works, or receive all ... 15:12:49 but i looked that up already quite often 15:13:11 it seems that things can be worked out with call-with-values 15:14:22 *karme* doesn't like values anyway 15:14:35 oh, nice, even the srfi-8 example looks just similar to the kind of operation I wanted to do 15:14:50 I might not be too far away in my approach 15:25:21 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:25:41 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:26:47 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BDC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:26:58 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-5-139.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:28:27 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-168-251.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:34 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:22 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@89-178-76-169.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:53 -!- samth [~samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:07:21 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-145-61-8.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:06 TR2N [email@89.180.136.193] has joined #scheme 16:09:18 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@158.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:31 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:42 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 16:39:31 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.136.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:39:41 triyo [~triyo@dsl-245-176-193.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:42:47 I've been reading the "Infinite Streams" section of SICP book. Example: (define integers (integers-starting-from 1)) just hangs. From what I can see, the reason is because its actually evaluating integers-starting-from which is a non-conditional self-recursive call. 16:43:28 the recusive call should be DELAYed 16:43:49 sloyd: thats what I thought....let me give it a quick try 16:45:44 hmm not to sure if I have it right. Where should I place the delay? (define (integers-starting-from n) (cons-stream n (integers-starting-from (+ n 1)))) 16:46:12 cons-stream -> (define (cons-stream first rest) (cons first (delay rest))) 16:47:32 CONS-STREAM can't work, because REST is evaluated before it is DELAYed 16:48:23 you could make it a macro, but for now I think you should just write (CONS first (DELAY rest)) instead of making it a procedure 16:48:38 sloyd: I see, thanks 16:52:43 TR2N [email@89-180-134-25.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 16:53:44 samth [~samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:57:33 alvatar [~alvatar@38.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:59:17 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:58 -!- pjb [~t@160.Red-88-30-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:03:06 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:19 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 17:12:09 pjb [~t@95.124.64.51] has joined #scheme 17:18:21 -!- triyo [~triyo@dsl-245-176-193.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: triyo] 17:18:42 are there different terms for alists consting of proper lists vs "real pairs" - ((a . 1) (b . 1) ...) vs ((a 1) (b 1) ...) ? 17:19:36 and a term for "real pairs" ? 17:19:46 phao [~phao@189.107.177.241] has joined #scheme 17:22:40 and maybe there are also names reflecting handling of duplicates? and common names for transforming between those representations? ((a . 1) (b . 2) (a . 3)) vs ((a 1 2) (b 2)) 17:23:07 ~s/a 1 2/a 1 3 17:24:55 karme: try "dotted pair." R5RS 6.3.2 17:27:40 Daemmerung: i don't think dotted pair implies that the cdr is not a pair 17:28:06 rudybot: eval '(a . (b . (c . (d . (e . ()))))) 17:28:07 "Improper list," then. 17:28:12 karme: your r5rs sandbox is ready 17:28:12 karme: ; Value: {a b c d e} 17:28:31 rudybot: eval '(1 2 3) 17:28:31 karme: ; Value: {1 2 3} 17:29:15 but improper list also inlcudes '(a b . c) 17:29:58 rudybot: eval '(a . (b . c)) 17:29:59 karme: ; Value: {a b . c} 17:30:21 I use dotted pair. You can call it whatever you like. 17:30:27 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:30:58 Daemmerung: for you dotted pair means: a pair whose cdr is not a pair? is that common usage? 17:31:21 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:31 Yes, because no printer will choose to render (list 1 2 3) as (1 . (2 . (3 . ()))). 17:32:22 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 17:32:27 ah - i see 17:33:00 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-159-161.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:34:35 Besides, you might want a key in your alist to reference more than one element. In that case, you'll want the cdr of the element to contain a pair, or a list, or a vector... why constrain yourself? 17:45:32 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:40 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 17:52:57 sure, but that is exactly the reason why i look for good names here 17:55:01 If I call a pair a dotted pair, I'm not saying that the cdr won't be another pair. Just that I'm considering that pair as a 2-tuple rather than as the first element of a proper list. 17:56:59 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:05:02 I never remember if (car (cdr.. is cadr or cdar 18:05:04 :< 18:12:50 reynard [~alan@n11211829114.netvigator.com] has joined #scheme 18:13:57 -!- reynard [~alan@n11211829114.netvigator.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:05 I have a very similar problem with the arguments to `compose' - probably for the same reason. 18:16:13 Yeah 18:18:14 The way I memorize it is just (CAr (cDR.. := cadr 18:18:43 The way I memorize it is just (CAr (cDr (cDR.. := caddr 18:18:45 And so on 18:21:06 So much more straightforward in CPS, at least for native left-to-right readers 18:21:40 gtab2 [~gtab@h-149-70.A256.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #scheme 18:22:29 (Do Arabic Lispers reverse all their sexps? How does that work?) 18:27:18 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 18:28:06 Good question, Daemmerung... most non-English programmers I know write/comment all their code in English - except the French. 18:28:18 I'd be interested in knowing if that holds outside of my tiny sample group, though. 18:28:36 alaricsp: Novices tend to write in their native language, too 18:28:44 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 18:28:58 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 18:29:23 Only when they realise they can potentially reach a wider public than just themselves or their team they will change their comment language 18:29:56 free software developers tend to write it in english, but in companies you see a lot of code in the native language of the developers 18:30:22 That's probably true too 18:30:46 The French are fiercely defending their native tongue. 18:31:10 *Daemmerung* tries to remember the name of the Francophone functional-programming journal 18:31:27 How close-minded can you be? :) 18:31:47 To quote a great American thrash band, Speak English Or Die. 18:32:07 :) 18:32:28 I rather see code in my native language than in badly written english. But some people here in brazil will code in english even if they don't really speak any english 18:32:57 I am certainly grateful that Lua is commented in English! 18:32:59 You have a point there. Of course the developer in question should just learn proper English 18:33:35 s/Lua/the source to Lua/ 18:34:05 I always feel somewhat guilty that I was raised with English as my first language, when everyone else has to learn it at school... 18:34:09 I'm sorry, guys :-( 18:34:26 alaricsp: That's alright, I think the world is a better place because of it 18:34:40 Remember, Babel was considered a Bad Thing :) 18:34:53 Well, yes, if I had been raised with English as a second language I'd probably be even more annoying to talk to, it's true ;-) 18:35:02 hehe 18:38:59 Found it! "Journées Francophones des Langages Applicatifs" aka JFLA 18:39:11 *sjamaan* facepalms 18:39:18 haha 18:39:26 *Daemmerung* taunts sjamaan a second time 18:50:01 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:57:35 Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 18:58:35 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-159-161.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:59:42 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 19:01:00 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@38.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:10 Talk people, keep me awake. :< 19:09:07 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:11 okay, help me brainstorm an idea for a game 19:09:57 kill -ALARM Quadrescence 19:10:00 I was thinking something kind of like a 2d-platform game, 19:10:29 I always wanted a game that the computer learns how you play and how defeat you specifically, forcing you to create new strategies 19:10:31 *Daemmerung* plays a soothing lullaby. 19:10:36 Daemmerung: >:( 19:10:45 but with some more advanced AI stuff 19:10:53 I was trying to do that when I learning about neural networks and genetic algorithms 19:11:05 but I couldn't figure out nice rules 19:11:18 that would allow for the neural network work well 19:11:22 *Daemmerung* reads aloud from Barendregt in a droning voice 19:11:39 Daemmerung: What does your nick mean, by the way? 19:11:49 first person roguelike mud in the style of dwarf fortress with animals from polyworld... 19:11:56 :D 19:12:10 incubot: YES YES YEZ! 19:12:16 Quadrescence: "dawn," "dusk," or more generally "gloaming" 19:12:38 wait! I've got it! A curling game... 19:12:38 In which language? My guess is German, but I don't know. 19:13:00 You guess correctly. 19:13:16 Great, I must be a linguistic genius then. 19:13:37 curling has to be the ultimate sport really, it has everything: the strategy, presicion and teamwork. Like chess on ice :) 19:13:50 boooo! 19:13:57 The umlaut is a dead giveaway. Though apparently it appears Korean to some. 19:14:21 Daemmerung: I see no umlaut. 19:14:33 "ae" 19:14:50 Can't put ä in a nick. 19:15:43 Dæmmerung 19:15:44 ;) 19:15:56 A curling game where monsters lurk on the ice. Also, all the players are naked. 19:16:11 we have something here 19:16:33 winter owlimpics is so passe. 19:17:32 I have to agree 19:18:09 every sport in it is so boring to watch 19:18:13 -!- Len_ [~Len@87.70.4.31] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:18:58 they should include snowballwars instead 19:19:14 that would be worth watching 19:20:07 Quadrescence: play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YlbXtZ02gA over watch?v=JYZ62RX_g0M 19:20:21 for a nice de-synchro... 19:20:57 *sladegen* was just doing it, nothing rocket science. 19:22:24 *morphir* is a cross country skiier 19:22:25 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:22:56 *Daemmerung* is too, but hasn't skiied this year, damn El Niño 19:22:59 xc skiing is the ultimate 19:25:23 I'm watching the 50km now.. 19:25:29 go northug! 19:26:55 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:31 this should wake-up anybody: watch?v=6yT3lxPryJE 19:27:38 *sladegen* hides in a cave. 19:27:56 incubot: where is your cave? 19:27:59 foof: Where are you; c'mere please. 19:27:59 "batman" featured a '64 Cadillac that lived in a Bat Cave. I win. 19:31:39 mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:33:48 *sundaymorning* has seen snow only a couple times in his lifetime. 19:34:09 transcript-on is pretty much the best procedure ever 19:35:44 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:28 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 19:51:16 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:51:35 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:55:24 *Daemmerung* wonders what is "bouncy" about Bouncy Castle 19:58:27 Daemmerung: It's a play on the name "Fortress" which is also a crypto library 19:59:56 Also, I didn't know what a "bouncy castle" was (apparently, a Commonwealth usage). Thanks. 20:01:58 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:06:01 *jcowan* unvanishes 20:07:45 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:21 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 20:10:15 saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-68-179.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:15:39 jcowan: you are inescapable. Found your name inside my debugger this morning. Apparently Android aggregates tagsoup. 20:16:49 *jcowan* nods. 20:16:54 Not surprising. 20:17:03 Google was using it even before I got there, it turns out. 20:17:27 And a colleague helped me extensively in debugging 1.2 20:17:31 (the current release) 20:17:43 I did a picture-perfect double-take. 20:17:43 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:53 I hope you didn't get whiplash. 20:19:52 jewel [~jewel@41.29.8.110] has joined #scheme 20:21:25 So did I, just now, when I figured out why you use that nick. 20:21:38 Obvious in hindsight, as always. 20:22:15 I'm not a nick sort of d00d, but somebody had already claimed my surname when I first visited freenode. 20:22:31 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:23:29 Now it lets me masquerade as a 14-year-old girl from Nidderau, which is always useful. 20:23:53 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 20:29:10 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.29.8.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:32 I'll bet. 20:31:31 Depending on what's already in use, I take "cowan", "jcowan", "johnwcowan", and in extremis "johnwoldemarcowan", which last is always unique 20:32:22 Unfortunately on some IM services I have to clip the latter to "johnwoldemarcowa", which is Just Annoying. 20:32:42 SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 20:32:45 .oO("Nidderau"?) 20:32:56 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:33:06 ("Twilight" joke.) 20:33:14 A town in Hesse, Germany. "Lower Water", literally. 20:36:44 -!- samth [~samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:13 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:41:30 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:45:33 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:38 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:49:26 jewel [~jewel@41.26.93.225] has joined #scheme 20:55:06 kn7 [~volkan_ya@88.224.117.171] has joined #scheme 20:55:54 Would it be possible to Clojure like Java interoperability with dot notation to SISC? 20:56:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.26.93.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:56:25 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-108-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:58:14 kn7: SISC already that, albeit with a different notation 20:58:57 Yup, I know SISC's Java interop, I just wonder what would it take to bring dot notation ala Clojure. 20:59:23 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-33-192.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 21:00:35 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:03:45 -!- gtab2 [~gtab@h-149-70.A256.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 21:04:37 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-141-157-183-82.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:05:15 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:11:18 schmir [~schmir@p54A93A0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:11:44 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.192.207] has joined #scheme 21:13:02 Happy trails, y'all. 21:13:08 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 21:13:20 -!- pjb [~t@95.124.64.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:13:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:14:32 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A93A0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:11 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-59-14.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:25 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:17:09 pjb [~t@95.124.64.51] has joined #scheme 21:17:19 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-141-157-183-82.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:23:22 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:52 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 21:25:35 -!- kn7 [~volkan_ya@88.224.117.171] has left #scheme 21:29:26 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:30:18 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:52 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-001-160.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:54 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@pool-141-157-183-82.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:23 -!- sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@pool-141-157-183-82.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:43:37 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-141-157-183-82.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:44:06 mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 21:51:39 -!- rickardg [~user@c213-89-196-180.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:48 schmir [~schmir@p54A93A0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:53:57 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:03:09 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:28 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:36 Hey all, is there a tutorial (hopefully for gambit, but chicken or bigloo would be ok too) on how to setup scheme<->c interactions. That includines writing the c-declares (in gambit's case), compiling the static objects, and then finally (and most importantly) interacting with them from the repl? 22:17:55 I'm really struggling with understanding the workflow 22:18:28 I have a working bare-minimum C opengl program that I'd like to convert to scheme, but I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start 22:19:40 I don't know anything about Gambit's FFI. It's one of the least standardized things among Schemes. 22:19:55 Chicken's is fairly straightforward. 22:20:14 If you look through the source code of various eggs, you should get an idea. 22:21:18 Checking out "An extended FFI example" now.. 22:22:40 seangrove: The manual is useful too 22:22:48 Look into foreign-lambda 22:23:28 If you have specific questions, feel free to join #chicken 22:23:53 Thank sjamaan, I appreciate that 22:27:14 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-172-119.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:34:05 chicken also has an opengl egg, iirc 22:34:29 It does, but it's not very good, AFAIK 22:42:51 sphex_ [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:44:33 -!- sphex [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:48:07 kssreeram [~kssreeram@122.174.70.187] has joined #scheme 22:50:02 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A93A0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:32 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 23:00:05 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-229-176.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 23:01:03 Len_ [~Len@87.70.4.31] has joined #scheme 23:01:49 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-wvjoneoojncirwif] has joined #scheme 23:05:50 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-141-157-183-82.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:38 -!- Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:13:55 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:42 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DD64B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:22:55 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:55 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-221.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 23:35:34 Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 23:48:57 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-wvjoneoojncirwif] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:50:05 arcfide [arcfide@140-182-144-227.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 23:50:25 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-108-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:53:07 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-108-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 23:57:31 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme