00:13:27 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:23:15 -!- osaka [~fkn@pool-71-100-37-50.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:26:21 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:29:14 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 00:31:01 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:35:45 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:35:46 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:07 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:12 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:47:28 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-251-171.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:11 annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-202-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:49:11 -!- annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-202-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:49:11 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 00:55:11 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:58 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:59:09 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-11-232.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 01:01:38 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-72-95-154-184.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:14:38 foof: does chibi have byte-vectors, or something alike, or does one just use strings? 01:16:28 steele^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has joined #scheme 01:17:13 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:31 hi people. I use GUILE: I take a string "c' d'' e," tokenize it to a list, manipulate the string to sth like this (d e' f,,) and in the end I want to have string again. Everything works great except the last step. 01:18:51 Obviouly (list->string (d e' f,,)) does not work 01:19:46 what is the right way to get a simple string again? It must be something really trivial 01:25:24 I'd go with SRFI 13's STRING-JOIN 01:25:51 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:36 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-189.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:29:34 sloyd: thanks. 01:30:37 sloyd: sometimes its just too late in the night to get this all done. Worked so many hours on the real function and in the end its something little that drives me mad 01:31:20 :) 01:36:50 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 01:43:44 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 01:43:49 -!- masm1 [~masm@bl8-56-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:44:39 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-243-7.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:28 lusory [~bart@bb121-6-159-253.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 01:48:43 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-72-95-154-184.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:55:02 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 01:56:46 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:19 Mr_Awesome [~eric@pool-98-108-6-104.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:13 annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-202-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:13 -!- annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-202-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:00:14 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 02:05:10 *elly* is trying to convince herself that she doesn't actually want dynamic scoping here, but kinda does... 02:05:17 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 02:05:20 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:06:13 I can emulate it, anyway 02:07:16 kuitang [~kuitang@173-30-220-7.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 02:08:04 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-11-232.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:44 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 02:10:40 -!- steele^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has left #scheme 02:13:53 -!- kuitang is now known as kuitang_ 02:15:18 -!- kuitang_ is now known as kuitang 02:19:01 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g230107131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:20:44 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g227015199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:23:38 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:23:39 perdiy [~perdix@dslb-088-071-199-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 02:23:39 -!- perdiy [~perdix@dslb-088-071-199-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:23:39 perdiy [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has joined #scheme 02:25:06 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:03 -!- funkenblatt [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:20 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:35:36 -!- perdiy is now known as perdix 02:36:40 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:37:23 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:42:52 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Quit: A cow. A trampoline. Together they fight crime!] 02:47:26 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 02:50:18 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-204-185.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:39 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@dhcp-212-183.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 02:56:59 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:37 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:59:05 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 03:04:10 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 03:08:16 dmoerner [~dmr@90-84.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 03:11:44 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #scheme 03:15:44 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:15:55 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:21:12 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:21:43 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-141-157-183-82.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:24:18 TR2N [email@89-180-183-231.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 03:25:32 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:26:30 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:04 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:32:06 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 03:33:31 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-183-231.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:34:17 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 03:34:35 TR2N [email@89.180.230.255] has joined #scheme 03:35:38 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:20 Iteration can be tricky. 03:36:34 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:52:34 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:01 jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has joined #scheme 04:06:58 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:12:49 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 04:17:08 incubot: Dynamic scoping can be a form of the good. 04:17:12 next on the list is dynamic scoping :) 04:17:58 Daemmerung, I don't know if Plato would agree... 04:18:13 jengle: Fortunately for me, incubot does. 04:18:24 :) 04:18:38 *Daemmerung* goes searching for another yes-bot 04:19:12 jailtus [~jailtus@189.116.219.220] has joined #scheme 04:23:38 jengle: :) 04:28:33 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 04:29:20 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:32:18 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:28 rotty: Currently you just use strings. I want to clean that up and separate strings from byte-vectors though. 04:36:41 Baughn: mingw support was never completed, however I just got my mac/win/linux triple boot working yesterday and should be able to support it when I get a little more time. 04:38:16 And FWIW, Chibi uses the intersection of C99 and Plan9 C, which is very close to the original C. 04:39:45 And there isn't a single place where it uses "int foo; foo = 2; int bar;" 04:40:32 foof: Maybe I'll change it to be strictly c89 compliant 04:43:05 Quadrescence: For what purpose? I'm not interested in the standards, I'm interested in actual implementations, and the ultra-minimal Plan9 works, and reportedly mingw works as well. 04:43:53 There are in fact C89 constructs that Plan9 doesn't support. 04:44:07 Sad 04:44:44 That the standard diverged from what the original authors wanted? Indeed, which is why we need to pay more attention to Sussman!:) 04:45:14 foof foof foof 04:45:16 what a cool name 04:50:44 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 05:23:13 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:26:24 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 05:27:22 Hastur Hastur Hastur 05:29:15 Daemmerung Daemmerung Daemmerung is a pretty weird name 05:37:58 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:55:43 IIRC, Sussman claimed that Scheme was discovered, not invented. 05:56:11 So who invented Scheme? Plato? 05:57:47 My guess is that the analogy is to discovering something that exists in nature, not something that was invented and then lost. 05:58:59 It sounds like a pretty strange claim to make 06:09:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 06:10:56 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-12-53.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:11:37 (I was referring to the wedgie-one comment from foof.) 06:13:11 -!- foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:13:24 eli: You pinged a day or two ago, on #git. 06:13:37 Something to do with your post to the PLT list, I'm guessing 06:13:50 offby1: It was another failed attempt to get an answer there. 06:13:55 aw 06:14:09 I was trying to see if there is any way to override a git command. 06:14:24 Looks like it's not possible. 06:14:50 (This was an attempt to address the "git revert" concerns that were voiced.) 06:15:07 I didn't read any of that; I just noticed my nick. 06:15:14 (My clipping service alerted me) 06:16:46 Well, I don't think it's impossible, but it took some digging. If you know of a way to do that I'll be happy. 06:20:39 *Daemmerung* awakens from its eldrich sleep of millenia 06:22:26 Ph'nglui... ah, fuck it. Still no Scheme standard? 06:23:00 theres 6 scheme standards 06:25:04 *Daemmerung* eats ten FBI operatives for style's sake, then sinks back beneath the waves 06:27:55 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:35:09 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 06:52:57 foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 07:13:14 http://www.forth.org.ru/~dssp/msdos_e/papers/daf.txt "DSSP was not invented. It was found. That is why DSSP has not versions, but only extensions." 07:14:56 -!- jailtus [~jailtus@189.116.219.220] has left #scheme 07:22:54 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 07:25:18 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:25:33 -!- copumpkin is now known as JokeExplainer 07:26:10 -!- JokeExplainer is now known as copumpkin 07:27:26 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:44 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:51 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-12-53.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 07:40:35 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 07:46:39 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:47:12 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:59:46 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:02:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 08:15:26 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 08:27:36 -!- jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has quit [Quit: return EXIT_SUCCESS;] 08:30:53 -!- kuitang [~kuitang@173-30-220-7.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:55:38 Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has joined #scheme 09:03:10 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-31-101.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:05:29 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:58 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 09:14:53 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 09:30:56 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:36:23 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:48 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-30-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:08 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 09:55:16 mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 09:56:09 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 09:56:28 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:06 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:12:15 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 10:17:20 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:22:33 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has joined #scheme 10:23:06 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:27:43 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-31-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:32:54 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:33:51 sphex [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 10:35:29 -!- sphex_ [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:59:25 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-30-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:05:09 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip68-0-123-16.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 11:05:18 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-91-88.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 11:08:59 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-31-101.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:20:27 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 11:25:23 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 11:42:10 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 11:52:32 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5ABE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:04:15 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 12:11:50 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:25:15 mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 12:26:58 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:27:07 hello 12:27:28 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-213.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:37:31 why the fez hat ? 13:02:25 masm [~masm@bl8-56-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 13:02:48 -!- masm [~masm@bl8-56-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 13:04:07 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:04:20 we're getting real close to the spirit in the computer at this point, so he has to show a certain amount of reverence and respect 13:04:49 yes, but why does the fez allows him to show respect ? 13:06:58 i guess that is because it's fun 13:26:26 perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has joined #scheme 13:27:59 nullpo [~nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:34:27 foof: That would be great. Chibi is your project/ 13:34:28 ? 13:34:58 foof: I'm trying to set up a cross-compiler so I can at least get it to compile, but I don't really have access to a windows development platform to properly test it on 13:44:26 Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:54:38 Baughn: Yes, chibi's my project. 13:56:49 You seem to like #defines a lot. :/ 13:58:04 I hide the union type accessors behind #defines, which accounts for about 90% of the uses. 13:58:51 Makes it somewhat harder to unravel, but mostly I'm getting stuck on not knowing how the heck DLLs are supposed to work 13:58:58 Which isn't your fault. Ah well. 13:59:29 When using gcc, compiling with -g3 (the default in the Makefile) makes all the macros available in gdb. 14:00:21 But I can't help you on DLLs, since I've only just installed Windows and haven't started programming on it yet. The initial mingw work was done by someone else, and I don't know how complete it is. 14:00:31 kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:00:49 Not very. The core compiles, very few of the SRFIs do, and dll building seems broken. 14:01:22 And naturally, there is very little documentation out there on how DLLs work, much less readable documentation. My kingdom for an elf. 14:01:23 Well, all of the libraries were added after the mingw work. 14:02:17 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-61-82-250-66-98.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:34 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-91-88.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:08:07 foof: For the time being, I think I'll get rid of the makefile and use scons instead; it at least knows how to deal with windows, plus it's what we already use for the rest of DF 14:08:49 DF? 14:09:11 Everyone keeps asking that. Eheh.. 14:09:18 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DwarfFortress <-- This 14:10:27 cool 14:10:42 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Quit: A cow. A trampoline. Together they fight crime!] 14:11:17 foof: I was looking for a scheme interpreter for it, and got pointed at yours, so.. 14:11:40 Well, that's just the sort of thing chibi was built for :) 14:13:15 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 14:14:18 ubuntu-nathan [~ubuntu-na@200.142.160.182] has joined #scheme 14:14:45 Hi all! 14:14:53 *ubuntu-nathan* is back 14:15:10 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-31-145.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 14:15:25 Did we have gz library for scheme? 14:15:35 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:16:42 -!- mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:58 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 14:18:15 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 14:28:43 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:32:23 davazp` [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:33:19 -!- davazp` [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:29 -!- davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:33:36 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:34:07 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 14:34:52 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 14:36:07 when there is a general pattern I should put it in a higher-order function or macro 14:36:36 but how do I know when to use the macro instead of a higher-order function? 14:45:22 -!- nullpo [~nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:45:23 -!- pjb [~t@194.Red-79-149-143.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:31 pjb [~t@194.Red-79-149-143.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:58 morphir: only use a macro if you can't do it otherwise. 14:47:28 or as a convenience syntax for a HOF that you also make available 14:48:01 It is always possible to do otherwise. We could all program with cable patches. 14:48:38 Use macro when they're more expressive than the alternatives. 14:48:59 If 80% of your calls to map involves a lambda, you've got a problem. Use a dolist macro for them! 14:49:11 so macros are sorta a last resort? 14:49:22 No, they serve a different purpose. 14:49:34 function <-> function abstraction. macro <-> syntactic abstraction. 14:49:42 ah. 14:51:16 They're also useful to integrate the meta-linguistic abstractions as a dsl into the current programming language level. Which is just a complex way to say syntactic abstraction. 14:53:09 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 14:53:19 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 14:54:03 *morphir* nods 14:54:30 I have not gottan to that chapter in sicp yet. 14:54:34 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 14:54:36 looking forward to it 14:55:01 I haven't gotten... 14:55:37 but you can build a dsl using (define.. anyways. 14:56:32 I mean by building function interfaces 14:57:01 *morphir* scratches head 14:57:18 maybe thats just called an api 15:02:39 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 15:18:28 annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-202-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:18:29 -!- annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-202-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:18:29 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 15:19:55 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:21:01 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:21:28 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:25:28 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:37 masm [~masm@bl8-56-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 15:26:12 -!- masm [~masm@bl8-56-236.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 15:26:58 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has joined #scheme 15:30:18 Hah. I gave some money to Bay 12, once upon a time. Did I pay for Baughn to tinker with Chibi? 15:34:58 Daemmerung: Nope. I'm not toady. 15:36:27 lol 15:39:00 _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-66-65-36-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:45:05 -!- ubuntu-nathan [~ubuntu-na@200.142.160.182] has quit [Quit: IrcCE] 15:56:09 luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 15:57:19 Owner_ [~chatzilla@cpe-174-102-221-128.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:57:24 hello! 16:06:45 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:08:51 foof: (char->integer (integer->char 255)) ; --> 255 16:09:05 (char->integer (string-ref (string (integer->char 255)) 0)) ; --> -1 16:09:56 (in chibi, that is) Is this a bug or to be expected? 16:12:35 (integer->char -1) 16:12:49 oops, disregard that last line 16:20:49 certainty [~closure@dslc-082-082-130-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:24:56 -!- certainty [~closure@dslc-082-082-130-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:29:15 foof: '#include "gc.c"'? 16:45:23 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:37 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 16:51:05 mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 16:57:29 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:02:34 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 17:03:25 <_pr0t0type_> Hi everyone. Have any of you read the SICP book? Or rather, just the first chapter. In it there an exercise regarding the 'if' function. I'm having trouble understanding how replacing the 'if' special-form with your own definition (using (cond)) causes a program crash. If anyone can clarify this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks. 17:05:28 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:24 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:09:16 hi _pr0t0type_ 17:09:30 <_pr0t0type_> hello 17:09:52 which exercise? 17:10:12 <_pr0t0type_> oh, its Exercise 1.6 17:10:14 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:11:37 _pr0t0type_: what is the difference between a function and the if form? -> (if a b c) and (foo a b c) 17:11:47 where foo is a function 17:12:55 <_pr0t0type_> well, there are differences with the special forms, and how they are handled, but I'm not sure. I read special-forms are not evaluated? 17:13:56 yes, only 1 input to 'if' is evaluated 17:14:06 ell, 2 out of 3 are :) 17:14:08 well 17:14:37 <_pr0t0type_> hmm 17:16:40 <_pr0t0type_> so wait, the new-if function would evaluate all arguments, in applicative-order, as per SICP. And that causes a hang because it tries to evaluate the recursive function indefinitely? Could that be it? 17:16:51 i think so :P 17:16:58 <_pr0t0type_> ahh 17:17:02 <_pr0t0type_> makes sense then 17:17:04 try printing something in sqrt-iter 17:17:10 as the first line of it 17:17:29 then you'll see how many times it's called 17:17:40 <_pr0t0type_> excellent, let me try. 17:19:43 <_pr0t0type_> hmm, its not printing anything. 17:19:55 <_pr0t0type_> let me test some more 17:20:36 jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has joined #scheme 17:21:05 <_pr0t0type_> Wait, is there like a 'echo' or 'print' function is scheme, aside from the read-eval-print loop? 17:21:17 <_pr0t0type_> just in case 17:21:56 there are at least DISPLAY and NEWLINE 17:22:35 <_pr0t0type_> DISPLAY 17:22:39 display ftw 17:22:40 <_pr0t0type_> okay, I'll try 17:22:51 display is so full of win 17:23:55 <_pr0t0type_> Yup! 17:23:57 <_pr0t0type_> hahah 17:24:00 <_pr0t0type_> that did the trick 17:24:09 <_pr0t0type_> I did a quick (display 'x) 17:24:19 <_pr0t0type_> in the sqrt-iter 17:24:23 nice 17:24:32 <_pr0t0type_> and a series of x's printed 17:24:38 an infinite series? 17:24:42 <_pr0t0type_> thanks a million Owner_! 17:24:45 np 17:25:09 <_pr0t0type_> oh and sloyd of course, for the display! 17:25:10 may the schwartz be with you 17:25:16 <_pr0t0type_> lol 17:25:27 <_pr0t0type_> Alright guys, back to reading SICP :D 17:28:23 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 17:40:51 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:52 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 17:47:46 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:50:21 reynard [~alan@n112118222118.netvigator.com] has joined #scheme 17:50:23 -!- _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-66-65-36-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 17:50:51 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 17:54:33 offby1: The new version does do the git-svn clone much faster -- about 1.5 hours instead of ~8. 17:58:36 new version of what -- git? 17:59:28 Yes. 17:59:34 huh 17:59:43 I'd assumed that the bottleneck was subversion, not git 17:59:56 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 17:59:58 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 18:00:21 (I think that you told me at some point that you heard that it's faster...) 18:01:57 maybe; don't remember 18:06:29 fnord123 [~fnord123@94-194-63-222.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:10:11 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #scheme 18:26:01 -!- Owner_ [~chatzilla@cpe-174-102-221-128.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:27:29 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-39.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:31:06 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-213.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:57 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:36:41 perdix [~perdix@dslb-088-071-199-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:36:41 -!- perdix [~perdix@dslb-088-071-199-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:36:41 perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has joined #scheme 18:38:02 -!- jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has quit [Quit: return EXIT_SUCCESS;] 18:38:42 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:39:19 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip68-0-123-16.tu.ok.cox.net] has left #scheme 18:45:35 -!- reynard [~alan@n112118222118.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:30 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:53:44 dudleyf [~dudleyf@ip70-178-36-159.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:00:16 mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:12 -!- Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 19:04:10 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has left #scheme 19:14:46 ubuntu-nathan [~Nathan@200.142.160.182] has joined #scheme 19:14:56 Hi all! 19:14:58 *ubuntu-nathan* is back 19:15:04 :) 19:16:28 welcome back, then 19:16:35 thanks mije 19:16:36 :) 19:17:33 you're welcome (back, again) 19:17:58 thanks 19:18:48 mije: You know if there is any gzip lib for Scheme? 19:20:35 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:28:49 ubuntu-nathan: some schemes might have one built in. 19:28:55 I seem to recall PLT might have one ... lemme look 19:29:04 ok 19:29:23 ... PLT scheme will soon be renamed "Racket" 19:29:29 hmm 19:29:34 thanks offby1 19:29:35 :) 19:29:52 ubuntu-nathan: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/file/index.html 19:29:54 mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:30:09 thanks 19:30:17 *ubuntu-nathan* only uses PLT Scheme 19:30:18 :) 19:30:53 soon you will use only Racket 19:31:06 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:14 hmm 19:34:38 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-39.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:38:34 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:39:27 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:40:02 Zuu [zuu@unaffiliated/zuu] has joined #scheme 19:40:19 Racket... no, that can't be, the name doesn't end in "bit" 19:40:26 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:41:47 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:44:46 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:46:20 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:46:29 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:59 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:49:13 I'm using PLT Scheme. I have a list of filepath strings that I need to run over and read some data from. The paths are relative to the source file reading them (designate this file A). I have another file in a different directory (designate this file B) which `require`s file A and asks it to do the data reading. It seems that when B calls A, A's relative paths are relative to B's calling location. Anyone have bright ideas on making the path 19:49:20 Did that all go through? 19:49:34 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5ABE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:00 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:54:25 A probably needs to remember its path somewhere 19:54:36 so that when B invokes A, A can pull its own path 19:54:59 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:23 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:56:48 where did you see that it will be renamed as racket? 19:58:07 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:22 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:59:27 sssh.. http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-dev/2010-February/002233.html 20:00:38 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:01:15 im gonna rage in a minute. i somehow lost my ability to use mouse1+mouse2 to paste from terminals >:-O 20:05:19 fnord123, edit your xorg.conf to add back the Emulate3Buttons option 20:06:06 so their Scheme is a Racket? 20:06:26 I suppose that's a valid answer to the RnRS fiasco 20:07:07 -!- davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:31 Someone here uses R4RS standard? 20:08:34 r7rs: (racket?) 20:09:05 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11:35 because I'm trying Pocket Scheme on my PPC 20:11:45 cool this is what i thought plt should do. fork the language and make their own which they can make however they like and not worry about the spec. then any people looking for a scheme impl wont be confused by which scheme to use as racket will be distinct 20:11:49 so my next implementation shall be named Ponzi ? 20:11:54 to develop in Scheme where I go 20:12:05 or Social Security ? 20:12:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 20:13:03 scheme for mathematicians and scientists should be called plot 20:14:21 hmm 20:14:24 of course 20:14:36 but for me I call it: The best language ever 20:14:36 :) 20:15:18 I've know C/C++, Java(all variations, EE and ME), Ruby, Python, Perl, Assembly 8086 and MIPS, Pascal... 20:15:28 but Scheme is the best for mw 20:15:30 me* 20:15:32 :) 20:15:42 *ubuntu-nathan* love Scheme 20:17:28 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:49 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:25:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:55 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:31:24 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:41 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:32:39 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:58 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:34:03 -!- d3z [~davidb@arch.davidb.org] has left #scheme 20:34:55 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:26 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:42:06 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 20:43:38 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-aqaubifxvmftctfu] has joined #scheme 20:45:59 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:07 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 20:51:23 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:43 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:00:30 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:05:07 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 21:09:32 ubuntu-nathan: what about common lisp ? 21:12:08 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:18 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:50 -!- dudleyf [~dudleyf@ip70-178-36-159.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: dudleyf] 21:19:58 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet237.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #scheme 21:21:16 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:22:42 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:23:02 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:23 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet237.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:47 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-aqaubifxvmftctfu] has left #scheme 21:27:50 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:13 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-31-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:42 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-130-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:32:28 COMMON LISP IS A MESS 21:32:33 hmm 21:32:42 I agree with QS 21:33:06 QS = Quadrescence 21:33:30 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip68-0-123-16.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:33:31 But then again, the language is hard enough to not allow every damn person roll out their own variant. 21:33:50 (as such, there is a spectacular few compilers) 21:34:02 (or rather, few spectacular compilers) 21:34:48 I agree 21:35:21 Whereas with scheme... ... 21:35:57 yeah 21:36:38 (hey scheme implementors, I'm not trashing your implementations, but I don't see an implementation that is just incredibly great) 21:37:00 Also " New since last time: 554 messages " 21:37:01 god damnit 21:37:16 how about Clojure? 21:37:23 it's a good implementation 21:37:24 ;) 21:37:25 no 21:38:32 Scheme is good enough. There are good implementations, it'd just be nice if these billion people worked together for one incredible portable implementation. Ikarus, Chibi, (a while ago) S45, and maybe a couple others have taken positive steps. 21:39:10 yeah 21:39:38 *elly* uses PLT 21:39:53 *ubuntu-nathan* uses PLT 21:40:14 I looked at the PLT source code and it was just not ideal. I don't even think I could correctly compile it. 21:40:28 But that was a long time ago, so I don't quite remember. 21:40:48 The problem is that what is ideal for one person may not be for another. 21:41:25 Arelius: Okay, I say we need one great compiler, one portable compiler, and one embeddable compiler. 21:41:43 just like SBCL, CLISP, and ECL 21:42:03 And I say we need one fast compiler, and powerful optimizing compiler. 21:42:17 Sure, the portable one is the fast one 21:42:36 Then I also need in interpreter. 21:42:55 Scheme by default should give an interpreter anyway 21:43:03 hmm 21:43:07 if by interp you mean repl 21:43:11 No 21:43:28 Then I don't know what you mean 21:43:30 sbcl clisp and ecl contain all an interpreter. 21:43:30 I mean uncompiled. 21:43:43 What is "uncompiled" 21:43:54 I don't want to change the discussion, but there is any place that I can find the differences betwen R4RS and R5RS? 21:44:04 clisp interprets until you compile. in sbcl you have to activate it. 21:44:27 ubuntu-nathan: diff /usr/share/scheme/r4rs.txt /usr/share/scheme/r5rs.txt 21:44:34 What is "compiling" in this sense? Is compiling to bytecodes "interpreting"? 21:44:34 hmm 21:44:40 thanks pjb 21:44:41 :) 21:44:46 Quadrescence: That's compiling. 21:44:56 ubuntu-nathan: just fetch the standards from schemers.org 21:45:04 Arelius: Okay, and why would you want a plain old tree walker? 21:45:14 ok 21:45:14 Also, I need one that compiles to C, and how about one that compiles to JVM bytecode 21:45:24 Quadrescence: indeed. clisp compiles to a bytecode VM. ecl can compile to either a bytecode or to native thru gcc. 21:45:41 Arelius: A well designed compiler should support multiple backends 21:46:36 But as the compiler gets larger it becomes more difficult to add more features. 21:46:43 Also, I argue there is absolutely no need for tree-walking interpretation. Compiling to a naive set of bytecodes is better than just raw interpretation in probably every way 21:46:52 Arelius: That is definitely not true. 21:46:56 Also, I need those compilers in a BSD style license. 21:46:58 hmm 21:47:14 Arelius: When people poorly design compilers, it gets harder. 21:47:23 agree 21:47:34 *ubuntu-nathan* will take a bath 21:47:54 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 21:48:29 Arelius: I agree that users need their needs met, but I don't think the solution is to have 1000 implementations. 21:48:57 And the likelyhood of being able to create a single project that can meet the needs of everyone is very low. 21:49:22 Why is that? 21:49:47 Because some needs are conflicting. 21:49:54 For example? 21:50:08 (Also, I hope you don't see this discussion as me attacking you in any way) 21:50:20 Well let us start with the big one, licensing terms. 21:50:35 Okay, I agree, that is usually a big issue. 21:50:53 HG` [~HG@xdslau181.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 21:50:59 Ideally it'd be all public domain, but you know. ;) 21:51:01 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:31 Ideally for you and me perhaps. But there are many developers that won't have that for their code. 21:51:39 Which is why the GPL has such strong support. 21:51:44 I know, those are the not-ideal people. ;D 21:52:01 And already, we have multiple implementations. 21:52:33 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslau181.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:19 And we haven't even gotten to any code or features yet. 21:54:37 an important question would be : what do scheme implementors want scheme to be good for ? 21:54:48 hy do you need a compiler in a bsd style license? 21:55:56 fnord123: I feel that might be a good question if we weren't talking about a lisp, which is already all about compiling code on the target platform. 21:56:23 with eval and the like being such a core language feature. 21:57:30 I dont see the issue 21:58:27 youre either coding for in house servers which wont be distributed and gpl wont affect you as you dont distribute. or you are distributing code. so it should be gpl 21:58:32 Is it absurd to want to embed a full optimizing compiler in an application? 21:58:46 fnord123: I disagree. 21:58:55 no but if youre shipping code it should be gpl 21:59:18 Why? 21:59:49 If *I'm* shipping code, I steer clear of GPL ;) 22:00:08 Agreed 22:01:14 because youre either trying to make money or share your code. if youre trying to share the program then this insistance for the program to have a bsd license is based on your taste and i cant really discuss that. if you are shipping code to sell then you will have a market of either consumers or businesses. if you want a compiler in it i guess youre targeting business users and they will want the code and a support contract. 22:01:14 BSD or "less" 22:01:49 if youre shipping to consumers then it's best to ship code as well to let the community help fix bugs 22:02:21 or you are shipping something which you know will have bugs and youre refusing to let anyone help you. its kind of a jerk thing to do 22:02:53 id love to hear more use cases where it makes sense to have a non gpl license 22:02:58 fnord123: Well, while I disagree with most of that statement in general. I'm going to ignore it and point out the fact that some times external factors prevent code from being released as GPL. 22:03:23 such as 22:03:36 Take for instance, releasing for a platform that has an NDA that prevents the code from being released. 22:03:54 such as 22:04:14 Any Video Game console. 22:04:52 that's it's own bag of reasons to not use 22:05:07 Hmm? 22:06:45 many games today wont distribute server code and dont allow straight p2p game hosting so when they take the servers down, you can no longer play on the net. dreamcast did this with pso, xbox live is going/gone. virgin interactive is a counter point. they released the server to subspace and it's still running as a community 22:07:32 s/dreamcast/sega/ 22:07:59 -!- ubuntu-nathan [~Nathan@200.142.160.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:06 I fail to see how that's relevant to the discussion at hand. 22:08:32 well if you want relevance, contact a scheme implementation maintainer and request a non gpl license for money 22:08:34 This discussion has sort of branched far from the trunk anyway 22:09:51 fnord123: That implies that one group holds the whole copyright to the hypthothetical scheme implementation. 22:10:00 Which the GPL makes difficult. 22:11:48 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:05 Quadrescence: Anyways, I think the discussion between me and fnord123 has strongly illustrated why we can't have a single super scheme implementation. 22:12:39 Arelius: I never intended a single super. I meant not 1000 22:13:04 There is certinally not 100 relevant scheme implementations. 22:13:14 Especially in regards to whatever it is you are looking for. 22:13:33 What is he looking for? 22:13:57 *shrugs* an easier time choosing a scheme implementation I suspect. 22:14:42 No, increasing the quality and consistency of implementations 22:14:43 Truly, a quest fraught with peril most perilous. 22:15:06 So pick one and start hacking. 22:15:52 Arelius, how so? 22:17:34 ? 22:28:24 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:49 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 22:32:13 annodomini [~lambda@2002:97cb:cadc:2:21c:b3ff:febc:c615] has joined #scheme 22:32:14 -!- annodomini [~lambda@2002:97cb:cadc:2:21c:b3ff:febc:c615] has quit [Changing host] 22:32:14 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 22:33:36 Arelius: one group does hold the whole copyright to gpl'd works. fsf 22:34:57 fnord123: this is false. 22:35:08 I hold the copyright of my own GPL works. 22:36:20 My mistake. FSF requires copyright of FSF projects to be assigned to FSF 22:37:36 - In order for a contribution to make it back into mainline 22:37:44 aye 22:38:49 So, a large for could have irregular copyright 22:42:41 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:58:24 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Quit: A cow. A trampoline. Together they fight crime!] 23:11:19 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 23:16:47 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-107.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:20:12 I just got a copy of the Felleisen/Friedman Java book. It's like an artifact from a horrible Bizarro-universe where Scheme was never discovered. 23:21:05 Also, there are Bibby drawings, but no elephants. Only little anthropomorphic teacups. 23:21:15 yeah i got this one 23:21:36 but as java is the language that pays my rent, i'm not in a hurry to read it 23:21:49 (i don't know if my previous sentence makes sense) 23:22:01 (but i know what i mean) 23:22:11 No, I understand you. So I know what you mean, too. 23:22:44 great :) 23:23:52 the reasoned schemer is much more fun to read (as "fun" like "sometimes my head hurts") 23:24:02 the only real kind of fun :P 23:25:09 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:26:35 Well, I couldn't bear the idea of slogging through "Java for Complete Fucking Idiots" or whatever the go-to book might be. Here's hoping that the Bibby drawings distract me from what I'm actually doing. (That, and the promise that I can get back to Scheme after this.) 23:28:32 Daemmerung: don't get any on you. We'll be praying for you. 23:29:12 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 23:30:01 What do you do with Java? I work with some colleagues who have Java backgrounds and we don't see eye to eye on many design choices. (Where I do see eye to eye with my other C++ colleagues) 23:31:08 Java be all IS THIS FAST ENOUGH DAEMMERUNG IS THIS FAST ENOUGH and I'm all NO 23:32:31 i'm working on a software tracking response time and productivity of machines on production lines, it must be fast, and it's not 23:32:50 we went too far in the DDD stuff, i'm afraid 23:32:53 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-12-53.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:33:48 (DDD as in domain driven design, not data driven development) 23:40:29 Owner_ [~chatzilla@cpe-174-102-221-128.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:40:52 hi 23:43:32 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 23:49:56 yeah yeah 23:50:23 ooh, small caps 23:50:24 kewl 23:51:05 ENOUGH DAMN DAMN DAEMMERUNG 23:52:28 gezuntheight 23:53:09 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 23:53:48 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:30 wenn ich ein Vögel wäre, flöge ich zu dir 23:54:47 (how cute) 23:55:00 Java hacking macht frei durch den schornstein 23:55:50 Java is the blue pill 23:56:13 Java makes you free from the church of the acorn. 23:58:39 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:59:01 didn't the 'if' form not used to require an else branch?? 23:59:35 Somebody is using PLT, I see.