00:00:29 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 00:02:38 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 00:04:54 masm [~masm@bl7-193-96.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:09:06 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:10:51 -!- sladegen_ [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:11:02 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 00:13:30 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:13 mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 00:32:37 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:32:46 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:33:21 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:08 nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 00:47:54 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:51:05 -!- likebike [~900fffe3@gateway/web/freenode/x-whyyanwhaazjnocf] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:54:00 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@129-97-208-247.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 00:54:06 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:20 likebike [~900fffe3@gateway/web/freenode/x-whyyanwhaazjnocf] has joined #scheme 00:57:37 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [Mohamdu@2002:8161:f189:b:e1d2:1127:46bc:da7b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:58:06 So, you know how (in SRFI 26) (cut foo bar <>) => (lambda (x) (foo bar x)), right? Is there something that does the reverse? Basically, I'm wondering if something like (lambda (fun) (lambda (_ x) (fun x))) exists in a standardish (RnRS + SRFI*) library. 01:05:43 ijewr [~user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 01:18:57 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-229-237.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:30 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:53 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-163.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:35:00 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-171-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:40:52 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 01:42:22 meric [~Eric@124-168-162-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:43:41 FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-26.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 01:47:46 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-131.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:48:45 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:51:04 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.21] has joined #scheme 01:52:41 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:54:33 -!- fractalis [~fractalis@cpe-98-27-162-52.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:10 _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-66-65-36-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:01:14 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:01:56 <_pr0t0type_> hey guys, question. Given an anonymous function (lambda (x), etc), how do I recurse withing by name? 02:02:11 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 02:03:06 _pr0t0type_, (letrec ([fun (lambda (x) ...(fun x))]) (fun 4)) 02:03:46 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:13 <_pr0t0type_> thanks johrafkind 02:04:17 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 02:04:23 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:43 _pr0t0type_: There's also a trivial, but nice syntax for doing this without using letrec. 02:05:14 _pr0t0type_: ((rec fun (lambda x) ... (fun x))) 4). 02:05:52 (define-syntax rec (syntax-rules () [(_ name exp) (letrec ([name exp]) name)])). 02:06:19 nice job not using letrec 02:06:21 <_pr0t0type_> excellent, thanks a lot guys! 02:07:08 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:10:00 jonrafkind: that's srfi 31 02:10:27 hey look, i impleemnted adding numbers without using + !!! (define (add x y) (+ x y)), now you can just use `add' instead 02:11:18 how about (define add +)? 02:11:34 :) 02:12:09 Obfuscate: I t 02:12:12 *argh 02:12:15 my add function is growing by leaps and bounds.. already it has contributors! 02:12:17 Obfuscate: Please disregard that. 02:12:38 jonrafkind: I think what arcfide meant to say is that there's a nice syntax without having to type out the `letrec' form longhand. 02:14:10 ok one last snarky comment. heres a trivial syntax so you dont have to type rec. (define-syntax r (syntax-rules () [(_ name exp) (rec name expr)])) 02:15:58 how about not using 'letrec' at all? 02:16:54 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:07 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-193-96.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:17:22 Exercise to some reader other than me. 02:18:13 too boring? 02:19:51 ijewr: Y combinators for the win. :-P 02:20:01 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.21] has joined #scheme 02:20:23 another way than using Y? 02:21:05 No letrec, no Y...isn't that like tying up both your left and right arms, and asking you to write by telekinesis? :-P 02:21:19 :) 02:21:24 maybe 02:22:19 :-P 02:22:36 you could look at R5RS 7.3 :) 02:22:57 Isn't chapter 7 the denotational semantics chapter?! :-P 02:23:13 *checks* 02:23:16 yes 02:23:32 but gives an implementation for 'letrec' 02:24:28 *nods* 02:24:35 :) 02:25:49 Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:29:41 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-151-199-44-138.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:34:31 -!- meric [~Eric@124-168-162-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 02:34:50 meric [~Eric@124-168-164-7.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 02:38:56 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:22 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:23 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 02:42:43 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 02:43:56 -!- _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-66-65-36-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:45:33 _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-66-65-36-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:49:47 winxordie [~winxordie@n128-227-67-111.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #scheme 02:55:15 *cky* wonders if there's a way to use SRFI 43's functionality with the other kinds of vectors, like ones defined in SRFI 66 or SRFI 4.... 02:58:47 cky: since srfi 43 doesn't give implementations, you could simply rely on your scheme system, or roll your own 03:03:37 ijewr: Right, but AFAIK unless the Scheme system in question allows plain vector-* operations on those special vector types, you basically have to copy-and-paste what your Scheme system has, and adapt appropriately. 03:04:06 hmm 03:04:48 maybe you could construct an abstract implementation for any kind of vector, and build those procedures from that 03:05:08 ijewr: That still sounds like copying-and-pasting from what comes with the system. :-P 03:05:18 indeed 03:05:21 ijewr: I mean, if I have to, I will, but still. :-( 03:05:54 but your system may implement vectors very efficient, as C arrays or something like that 03:06:04 you may not want to copy such C functions 03:07:59 in fact, that's the reason for having srfi 66 or srfi 4 03:08:05 Well, I think SRFI 43 functions are quite generic and would, for the most part, work well with C-array-backed implementations. I haven't tried it, so maybe I'm wrong. :-P 03:08:22 ack 03:08:47 Like, what I mean is that I think if one ported SRFI 43 to work with SRFI 66 or SRFI 4, it would work just as well without destroying the advantages (e.g., using C arrays etc.). 03:09:02 I haven't studied the implementation in detail, though. 03:11:03 maybe you could even increase the advantages, since the homogeneous types dont't have to use pointers 03:11:51 on a gives architecture, you surely could use some awesome perfomance tricks, ask your local assembler guru 03:11:55 *given* 03:12:25 *nods* I leave such optimisations to the capable hands of the implementation's JIT compiler, but yes, I understand such is possible. :-) 03:13:02 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-26.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:33 after some thinking, i accuse srfi 43 of beeing lazy for not giving portable implementations 03:14:58 these would give a handy way to start such work 03:15:10 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.174] has joined #scheme 03:16:04 Maybe one day there will be a new SRFI based on that, but more generic. *nods* 03:16:21 I'm always reminded of the STL, and how its algorithms can work on a variety of container types. 03:16:47 And how, through type traits and stuff, you can specialise the behaviour of some types to be highly optimised. 03:17:29 Like: std::copy normally copies element by element. But it's possible (and usual) for contiguous containers of POD types to be specialised so that std::copy would use memcpy instead. 03:17:42 i don't know C++ 03:17:43 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:17:55 ijewr: Ah, okay. :-) 03:18:03 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:18:04 sorry about that 03:18:13 odds are i will never know it :) 03:18:20 Hehehehehe. 03:18:33 you know yossi kreinin's pages? 03:18:37 Nope. 03:18:52 C++ frequently questioned answers :) 03:19:06 Oh, hahahaha. 03:19:07 http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/index.html 03:19:32 the pages are more serious than one might expect 03:20:18 however, learning C++ would force me to study some aspects of type theory, it seems 03:20:21 *cky* might take a look sometime. I think many Stack Overflow commentators thought it over the top. 03:20:22 (at least *some*) 03:20:38 ijewr: If you want to study type theory, there are perhaps other languages you can use to do that. 03:20:47 that's what i hope :) 03:20:48 Even Typed Scheme will let you do that, not that I've used it. 03:21:09 i plan to have a closer look at Qi 03:21:26 they claim to have a turing complete type system 03:21:32 Wow. 03:21:50 That's a bit like C++ template metaprogramming. :-P 03:21:54 :) 03:26:29 foof: Phew, that's my Scheme WG emailing for the day. 03:27:23 arcfide: You don't have to reply to every email! :) 03:28:23 foof: Haha, I didn't. :-) 03:28:33 Just the ones I wanted to comment on. 03:32:38 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:35:45 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 03:40:11 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:53 -!- nothingHappens [~nothingha@173-31-122-80.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:46:49 xyzzy 03:49:50 ijewr: I don't think you've been teleported yet, try again! :-P 03:50:45 cky: wrong syntax. use the 'nothing happens' form instead 03:50:48 :) 03:52:28 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 03:55:38 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:56:11 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 04:01:30 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-229-237.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:38 -!- SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:04:19 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 04:11:24 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:14 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:19:06 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.174] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:20:41 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-186-238-166.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:50 -!- _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-66-65-36-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:59 -!- devslashnull [~nope@dyn-14.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [] 04:22:14 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:27:23 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 04:34:08 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 04:34:16 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 04:34:54 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:10 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 04:35:50 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:45 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: schemer999] 04:38:17 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:43 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-151-199-44-138.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 04:40:34 ijewr: :-D 04:50:37 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:52:29 I want to make sure... it isn't possible to set the car or cdr of a pair, is this right? 04:52:48 no 04:53:05 is it "no it isn't possible" 04:53:30 you can set the car of a pair with 'set-car!' 04:53:40 ok then, thanks 04:53:53 youre welcome :) 04:54:29 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:55:41 so, when list? checks if something is a list, it checks if the cdr is a pair.... 04:55:54 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 04:56:17 the pair of a proper list is a pair or the empty list 04:56:21 argh 04:56:26 the *cdr* of ... 04:56:57 ijewr: The cdr of a proper list is itself a proper list, which could be an empty list. :-P 04:57:04 indeed 04:57:06 ijewr: But not all items with a pair cdr is a proper list. :-P 04:57:08 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:57:20 hmm 04:57:23 your point 04:57:25 really? 04:57:30 '(1 2 3 . 4) is not a proper list. 04:57:32 yeah, of course 04:57:39 Even though, cdr of '(1 2 3 . 4) is a pair. 04:57:41 (cons 1 2) isn't a proper list, but it is a pair, and has a car and cdr 04:57:59 apparently "(1 2 . 3)" isn't a list 04:58:14 meric: Some would call it an improper list, but, list? only tests for proper lists. 04:58:15 so it must be checking if the last value is a () 04:58:24 yes 04:58:24 meric: Yes, that's part of what makes a proper list. 04:58:36 so it takes O(n) time to check it? 04:58:37 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:55 meric: Roughly, depending on whether the list you're checking is circular. 04:59:06 meric: I think it still comes out to about O(n) in the end. 04:59:09 R5RS on 'list?': Returns #t if obj is a list, otherwise returns #f. By definition, all lists have finite length and are terminated by the empty list. 04:59:19 ijewr: Yep. :-) 04:59:33 meric: Circular lists are not considered proper lists. 04:59:42 oh ok 04:59:45 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:59:51 that makes it simpler :) 04:59:56 Yep. 05:01:56 thus the following expression yields falsehood: (begin (define a (cons 'foo 'bar)) (set-cdr! a a) (list? a)) 05:02:09 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-71-98-246-124.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:03:23 but i wonder if 'list?' is required to terminate on circular structures 05:03:23 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-71-98-246-124.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:03:23 ahh 05:03:32 do you know that? 05:03:51 it terminates on mzscheme... 05:03:52 ijewr: R5RS does not require it to. SRFI 1 does. 05:04:02 meric: Any quality implementation will. 05:04:14 lol okay... 05:04:19 hmm, in my interpretion of R5RS, it has to terminate 05:04:29 Returns #t if obj is a list, otherwise returns #f 05:04:39 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 05:04:44 but the case that in does not return is not mentioned 05:04:46 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:04:52 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 05:05:07 *nods* 05:05:15 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:18 equal? expressly specifies that it may not terminate when given circular data structures. 05:05:28 however, gambit and scheme48 do the same as mzscheme 05:05:36 ahh ok 05:05:49 ijewr: It's not hard to check for circularity, which is why I say that any quality implementation will check. 05:06:19 but you will need about O(n) of memory 05:06:30 ijewr: No, it just uses turtle-and-hare algorithm. 05:06:40 It will be O(n) of time, but O(1) of memory. 05:06:55 cool 05:09:43 The picture accompanying that algorithm in Wikipedia cracks me up. :-P 05:10:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection 05:10:40 thats funny lol 05:14:40 it seems that cycle detection is a well studied problem 05:18:18 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gauss Eleminated] 05:21:57 leppie|work [~52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-njnzqsoxeozlesea] has joined #scheme 05:28:43 meric: i forgot to say that literal lists do not have to be mutable 05:28:56 like '(1 2)? 05:28:59 yes 05:29:30 by "do not have to be", do you mean the spec doesn't says so, but implementations allow it? 05:29:54 it is kind of like string literals in C 05:29:59 if you know C 05:30:03 ahh ok 05:30:27 implementations are allowed to share structure for literals 05:30:53 so "(set-car! (list 1 2) 3)" won't work sometimes? 05:31:02 this will work 05:31:13 but this not: (set-car! '(1) 2) 05:31:59 Not all implementations make that distinction though. 05:32:11 ok... 05:32:45 or they may provide both interpretations, like the GCC does with C 05:33:23 PLT, for instance, will happily let you set the car of the literal. 05:33:31 gambit too 05:33:35 scheme48 not 05:33:42 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:33:58 ikarus allows it too 05:34:20 And guile, gauche, chicken... 05:34:27 bigloo 05:34:43 mit-scheme 05:34:47 lol 05:34:57 Actually, Scheme48 and Chibi are the only implementations I know of which catch that error. 05:35:16 i got it with gambit once, that's how i figured it out 05:35:25 but that's years ago 05:35:51 R5RS says: (define (g) '(constant-list)) 05:35:55 (set-car! (g) 3) ===> error 05:39:46 however, SRFI 1 defines 'list-copy', which you can use to copy a literal list structure to get a list you can mutate in any case 05:41:00 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: bbl] 05:46:10 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 05:55:10 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-163.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:56:26 -!- foof [~user@FL1-125-198-249-114.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:32 foof [~user@FL1-125-198-249-114.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 05:59:01 Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 05:59:38 -!- winxordie is now known as me 05:59:50 kick me 05:59:57 -!- me is now known as thegame 06:00:13 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: schemer999] 06:00:20 -!- thegame is now known as winxordie 06:01:44 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-163.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:02:22 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@129-97-208-247.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:02:25 -!- winxordie [~winxordie@n128-227-67-111.xlate.ufl.edu] has left #scheme 06:04:20 winxordie [~winxordie@n128-227-67-111.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #scheme 06:06:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:13 -!- nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has left #scheme 06:11:01 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 06:13:20 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 06:13:27 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 06:16:07 -!- acon [~acon@81-231-127-43-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: acon] 06:22:32 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-186-238-166.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:22:55 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:27:04 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-3-197.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:27:53 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-117-169.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:27:55 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:43 ski_ [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 06:34:41 TR2N` [email@89.180.131.65] has joined #scheme 06:36:06 -!- TR2N [~email@89.180.227.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:36:48 foof: ping 06:37:14 pong 06:37:59 Did you consider the schulze thing? 06:38:55 At least on wikipedia it sounds a little better, and more popular. 06:39:37 I considered them both, but they seemed equivalent on the feature comparison. 06:40:33 There is a paragraph on the schulze page that describes the difference. 06:41:25 Under the big table -- the sentence that makes it look better is: So, in some sense, the Schulze method minimizes the strongest pairwise win that has to be overturned when determining the winner. 06:42:11 I think I went with ranked-pairs just out of general dislike of people who name algorithms after themselves, when all else seemed equal :) 06:43:17 Ah, I overlooked that paragraph. 06:43:50 (Well, RP also has a person name, and schulze has a number of non-person names... Must be because the latter is so recent.) 06:44:24 Anyway, I implemented that (not that hard), in case you want a second piece of code to verify results with as a sanity check. 06:44:48 OK 06:44:57 (I somehow guessing a number of votes in your future.) 06:45:00 I suspect it would be very rare for them to have different results. 06:45:16 That would be interesting if you get one. 06:45:33 Where is the code? 06:46:25 http://tmp.barzilay.org/schulze.ss 06:46:43 thanks 06:46:52 (Disclaimers about pltisms apply, but it looks like you have it installed.) 06:51:48 it looks like git is winning there 06:52:05 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-26.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 06:53:30 Yeah, the results with RP are (git hg monotone darcs svn) 06:54:31 drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:55:02 ... and same with Schulze. 06:56:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:56 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-26.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:59:07 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:02:26 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:09:27 What is (null), is it just (())? 07:09:41 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:30 rudybot: eval (null) 07:10:36 foof: error: with-limit: out of time 07:10:55 rudybot: eval (+ 2 2) 07:11:03 foof: error: with-limit: out of time 07:11:10 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:11:21 rudybot: init scheme 07:11:26 foof: your scheme sandbox is ready 07:11:27 (eq? `(null) `(())) -> #f 07:11:35 rudybot: eval (+ 2 2) 07:11:36 foof: ; Value: 4 07:11:38 rudybot: eval (null) 07:11:39 foof: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: () (no arguments) 07:12:07 rudybot: eval `(null) 07:12:10 meric: your sandbox is ready 07:12:10 meric: ; Value: (null) 07:12:23 rudybot: eval `(()) 07:12:23 meric: ; Value: (()) 07:12:26 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-71-98-246-124.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:12:28 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-71-98-246-124.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 07:12:28 they're different 07:12:37 I'd have thought they'dthe same 07:12:59 rudybot: eval null 07:12:59 meric: ; Value: () 07:13:08 yet null is supposed to be () 07:13:39 No it isn't, null is a symbol. 07:13:40 rudybot: (eq? null ()) 07:13:40 meric: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 07:13:49 This is Scheme, not Common Lisp. 07:13:59 ahh I see. 07:14:01 okay ty 07:14:46 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:16:09 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 07:16:40 rudybot: eval (eq? null ()) 07:16:40 meric: error: eval:1:10: #%app: missing procedure expression; probably originally (), which is an illegal empty application in: (#%app) 07:16:51 rudybot: eval (eq? null `()) 07:16:51 meric: ; Value: #t 07:18:29 nutmegmagi1 [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:18:45 -!- nutmegmagi1 [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:59 rudybot: eval (eq? 'null '()) 07:23:01 ijewr: your sandbox is ready 07:23:01 ijewr: ; Value: #f 07:23:30 ;) 07:23:34 :) 07:24:01 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:17 rudybot: eval (symbol? '()) 07:24:17 ijewr: ; Value: #f 07:24:27 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 07:24:49 rudybot: eval (set-car! '(1) 2) 07:24:49 ijewr: error: reference to undefined identifier: set-car! 07:24:53 hmm 07:25:02 rudybot: eval cons 07:25:03 ijewr: ; Value: # 07:25:09 rudybot: eval set-car! 07:25:09 ijewr: error: reference to undefined identifier: set-car! 07:25:18 : o 07:25:37 who runs that bot? 07:26:45 rudybot: eval set! 07:26:46 ijewr: error: eval:1:0: set!: bad syntax in: set! 07:26:51 argh 07:27:12 rudybot: (begin (define a 'foo) (set! a 'bar) a) 07:27:12 ijewr: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 07:27:17 rudybot: eval (begin (define a 'foo) (set! a 'bar) a) 07:27:17 ijewr: ; Value: bar 07:27:41 it knows the 'set!' form, but not the mutation procedures 07:27:52 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 07:29:51 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:29:52 maybe its old 07:30:05 dunno 07:30:24 but someone is nice enough to run it 07:30:36 yeah 07:30:42 Eric Hanchrow 07:31:19 rudybot: eval eval 07:31:19 ijewr: ; Value: # 07:31:30 rudybot: eval vector-set! 07:31:30 ijewr: ; Value: # 07:31:33 lol 07:31:48 -!- Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:32:33 rudybot: eval call-with-current-continuation 07:32:33 ijewr: ; Value: # 07:35:43 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 07:38:08 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:41:32 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:38 rudybot: eval (vector-set! '#(1) 0 42) 07:41:38 ijewr: error: vector-set!: expects type as 1st argument, given: #(1); other arguments were: 0 42 07:41:55 meric: rudybot won't let you mutate literals :) 07:42:12 its not PLT is it 07:42:19 dunno 07:42:57 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:04 ok 07:43:08 :) 07:43:16 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 07:44:54 i think it *is* mzscheme 07:44:58 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:45:25 (i guess that from the error message) 07:46:15 and, funny enough, when i start mzscheme 4.0, it does not know 'set-car!' 07:46:19 maybe its got like a --strict turned on 07:46:43 i don't use mzscheme, dunno 07:46:56 ok 07:49:41 rudybot: init r5rs 07:49:43 ski: your r5rs sandbox is ready 07:49:49 ! 07:49:49 rudybot: eval set-car! 07:49:49 ski: ; Value: # 07:49:58 ski: i love you 07:50:06 rudybot: init r5rs 07:50:06 ijewr: your r5rs sandbox is ready 07:50:57 rudybot: eval (set-car! '(1) 2) 07:51:05 seems to work 07:51:19 rudybot: eval (begin (define a '(1)) (set-car! a 2) a) 07:51:19 ijewr: ; Value: {2} 07:52:47 rudybot: eval (let () (define (f x) (cons x '(2 3))) (define l (f 1)) (set-car! (cdr l) 4) (list l (f 1) (f 2))) 07:52:48 ski: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: #; arguments were: 1 07:54:43 *ski* scratches head 07:56:14 rudybot: eval (let* ((f (lambda (x) (cons x '(2 3)))) (l (f 1))) (set-car! (cdr l) 4) (list l (f 1) (f 2))) 07:56:14 ski: ; Value: {{1 4 3} {1 4 3} {2 4 3}} 07:57:05 (.. shows that this "allowing mutation of list literals" can produce unexpected results) 07:57:36 (in other words, that's still an error, it just isn't detected) 07:59:47 good point 08:03:14 rudybot: eval (let* ((f (lambda (x) (vector x '#(2 3))) (v (f 1)))) (vector-set! (vector-ref v 1) 0 4) (vector v (f 1))) 08:03:14 ijewr: error: eval:1:7: let*: bad syntax (not an identifier and expression for a binding) at: (f (lambda (x) (vector x (quote #(2 3)))) (v (f 1))) in: (let* ((f (lambda (x) (vector x (quote #(2 3)))) (v (f 1)))) (r5rs:body (vector-set! (vector-ref v 1) 0 4) (vector v (f 1)))) 08:03:43 *ijewr* was awake for too long 08:06:19 rudybot: eval (let* ((f (lambda (x) (vector x '#(2 3)))) (v (f 1))) (vector-set! (vector-ref v 1) 0 4) (vector v (f 1))) 08:06:20 ijewr: error: vector-set!: expects type as 1st argument, given: #(2 3); other arguments were: 0 4 08:06:40 i case of vectors, mzscheme detects the 'error' 08:07:25 i would rather call it 'side effect from hell' 08:07:51 incubot: eval (let () (define (f x) x) (define y (f 0)) y) 08:07:51 0 08:08:39 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 08:08:47 *ski* was for some reason expecting `letrec*' semantics in the body .. but can only find an `letrec'-based explanation in R5RS 08:16:32 other topic: do you consider it apropriate to write a chess engine in scheme? 08:16:52 or would you go down nearer to the bare metal? 08:17:54 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:21:08 it is probably appropriate .. however, i haven't tried 08:22:07 i have started to write one, and it plays allready, but i am not sure if i should continue it 08:22:22 i think about the performance 08:22:57 at the moment, i use gambit, and it's feeling quite fast, but i have nothing to compare 08:23:28 in chess, you get to the point where you would like to have fast 64-bit-words 08:23:59 on a 64 machine, you could assume that a fixnum is enough 08:24:44 so i think about rewriting it in C, as long as that's not too much work 08:24:55 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 08:25:59 but, on the other hand, i probably should focus on patterns in the game, and hence an abstract language looks appropriate 08:26:23 but i really do not know where this project will lead to :) 08:26:34 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26:49 so, now i told you :) 08:29:25 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 08:29:56 jengle [~9598170f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ztqcbemwwgegtrou] has joined #scheme 08:32:48 -!- jengle [~9598170f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ztqcbemwwgegtrou] has quit [Client Quit] 08:33:02 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15:58:38 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 15:59:46 sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:02:40 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-60-82-254-220-250.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:04:38 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-52-82-65-119-59.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:11:58 -!- kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:12:15 luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 16:14:01 fractalis [~fractalis@cpe-98-27-162-52.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:16:15 emmy [~a59bcafe@gateway/web/flash/gateway.tiramisu.in/x-gjgjunmfepbdpiqx] has joined #scheme 16:22:04 -!- ski_ [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:39 -!- emmy [~a59bcafe@gateway/web/flash/gateway.tiramisu.in/x-gjgjunmfepbdpiqx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:54 emmmy [~a59bcafe@gateway/web/flash/gateway.tiramisu.in/x-ahitdmvnevtoroit] has joined #scheme 16:32:04 sysop_fb [~bleh@80.255.39.35] has joined #scheme 16:38:38 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:38:56 -!- emmmy [~a59bcafe@gateway/web/flash/gateway.tiramisu.in/x-ahitdmvnevtoroit] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:24 borism_ [~boris@213-35-234-36-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 16:41:39 -!- borism [~boris@213-35-234-36-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:44:45 Fufie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 16:50:41 pltscheme [~772878e2@gateway/web/freenode/x-wfkjjbmybgvhezgj] has joined #scheme 16:50:57 hello ? 16:51:23 Hello? Who's there? 16:51:32 .oO("damned telemarketers, calling me at all hours") 16:51:55 Sorry, can one help me with plt-scheme? 16:52:10 sure, ask 16:52:20 Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:52:51 like (send foo-canvas repaint) 16:52:54 I want to know how to repaint a canvas in plt-scheme 16:53:06 oh, unfortunately I don't know much about that. 16:54:05 Um, then I gotta ask on their mailing list ... 16:54:14 have you read the online documentation? http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/index.html?q=paint 16:54:55 Yeah, but I can't find how to request repaint for a canvas ... 16:54:57 yeah, the mailing list is good. (This channel is good, too, but of course sometimes, like now, you find that nobody knows) 16:55:39 BTW, I am writing a tic-tac-toe assignment in plt-scheme 16:56:23 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:06 (send your-gui-thingy refresh) 17:02:51 ĦAy, refresco! 17:04:57 pltscheme, why did you choose that irc nick? 17:05:02 it's liable to be confusing 17:05:22 this is temporary ... 17:05:22 Umm, sorry 17:05:29 I just wanna ask some questions about plt ... 17:06:48 ski_ [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 17:08:11 pltscheme, that's fine, but that nick might make people think that you're officially associated with PTL 17:08:21 Don't be silly, samth 17:09:12 Daemmerung, I don't think the worry is silly 17:09:34 Umm ... 17:09:36 Ok ... 17:09:39 I got it now ... 17:09:55 (send this on-paint) works .... 17:10:07 Thank you guys anyway .... 17:10:17 Next time, I will choose another name ... 17:10:21 You don't want to send an on-paint directly. 17:10:22 *mario-goulart* was thinking about changing his nick to FBI 17:10:26 *mario-goulart* gives up 17:10:33 *Daemmerung* had exactly the same thought 17:10:34 Umm, then? 17:12:30 -!- pltscheme [~772878e2@gateway/web/freenode/x-wfkjjbmybgvhezgj] has left #scheme 17:13:10 Poor pltscheme. 17:13:39 -!- Daemmerung is now known as OfficialFBIAcct 17:14:50 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-3-197.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:24 :-) 17:18:32 TR2N [email@89.180.192.75] has joined #scheme 17:19:55 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:22:05 -!- OfficialFBIAcct is now known as fbi_channel_log 17:24:33 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:29:45 jlongster [~user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:42 -!- fbi_channel_log [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:40:41 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 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Why do you want it? 23:05:12 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:05:47 There is SRFI-10, but I don't know anybody who either implements or uses it. 23:07:29 it would be handy for implementing swank-presentation so you can use presentations inside quote 23:07:57 guess I'll have to preprocess the expression instead. thanks guys 23:08:14 julian37: backquote? 23:09:33 nostrand, I think that's not quite the same. I'd need something that works in every context 23:09:41 ok 23:15:06 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 23:19:17 jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has joined #scheme 23:25:15 schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:25:38 -!- schemer999 [~schemer99@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:12 *jcowan* enjoys the blissful silence on s-r-wg1 while the wggers catch up. 23:29:14 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: melba] 23:29:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 23:32:56 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34:53 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 23:42:11 offby1 [~user@74.203.51.134] has joined #scheme 23:42:17 -!- offby1 [~user@74.203.51.134] has quit [Changing host] 23:42:17 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 23:46:19 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-134.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:50:51 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:52:23 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:50 mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 23:56:08 davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:23 -!- julian37 [~user@125-239-98-143.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:59:01 Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 23:59:52 -!- hotblack231 [~jh@p4FC5A7FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]