00:02:26 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:04:26 masm [~masm@bl5-104-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:07:27 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-199.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:38 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-199.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:09:57 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-89-61.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-61.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:12:55 -!- Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:50 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 00:18:11 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.41.23] has joined #scheme 00:19:18 foof: could be anemia from the ticks 00:25:23 kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 00:40:07 Dang it, I ordered my ticks anemia-free! 00:42:58 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5B44B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:46:43 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b0a.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:02 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:55:49 Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 00:55:49 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:57:35 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:00:42 -!- leppie|work [~52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-lfvtyngxseqqyvgv] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:01:39 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:04:44 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:31:29 -!- kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:36:16 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:39:03 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:47:12 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:49:12 *Daemmerung* curses his state Liquor Control Board 02:00:41 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:55 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 02:01:47 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:06:05 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:18:42 drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:19:01 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:23 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 02:24:49 Daemmerung: say what you will, but Scotch seems to be cheaper here than in (say) Ontario 02:24:55 or so my Ontarian contacts tell me 02:25:19 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:26:37 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.41.23] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 02:28:43 'Tis, sir. 02:30:22 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:59 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:29 The notion that some tax-fattened leech in Olympia dictates what I may purchase in this state offends me to my core. Next time I cross a state line, I'm bringing a shopping list. 02:34:52 -!- masm [~masm@bl5-104-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:35:52 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:38 masm [~masm@bl5-104-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 02:37:12 emma [~em@cpe-72-225-241-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:37:13 -!- emma [~em@cpe-72-225-241-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:37:13 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:38:39 -!- masm [~masm@bl5-104-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 02:39:09 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:39:16 -!- djanatyn [~djanatyn@pool-74-98-199-53.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:39:30 djanatyn [~djanatyn@pool-74-98-199-53.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:54 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:51:04 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:49 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:23:04 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:35 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 03:27:54 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gauss Eleminated] 03:38:29 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:44 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 03:39:05 WG2 is up and running. Anyone who wants to suggest a topic for us to discuss should feel free to send me email at cowan@ccil.org, and I'll put it on my list. 03:54:48 arcfide [arcfide@140-182-146-235.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 03:55:08 arcfide: ping 03:59:36 jcowan: Yo. 03:59:39 What's up? 03:59:56 jcowan: I just got your message about the servers. I'm not sure I'm happy about it, but... :-) 04:00:28 I actually wanted to find out why you were using the -private list; I didn't mean to slap you down hard publicly. 04:00:41 jcowan: Hahah! Oh, no, I'm not unhappy about that. ;-) 04:00:52 jcowan: you're bookmarked. Godspeed to all of you. 04:00:58 I think we'll have a lot of heated discussion, and the more yelling I'm allowed to do, the better. :-) 04:01:34 jcowan, apparently reddit wants to discuss , despite my having done nothing with that document but to write it and to upload it to mumble.net. 04:01:39 jcowan: I was using the private list because I figured that a non-scheme related issue about how we want to run our internal infrastructure for the time being would be better kept private rather than flood the public list with potentially irrelevant junk. 04:09:44 Ephemeron sounds like it could be the name of a car 04:10:21 Or a satellite 04:11:45 jcowan: release roderick 04:11:58 If I didn't want something discussed, I wouldn't publish it to a publicly accessible server. 04:13:04 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:22 incubot: several seditious scribes from Caesarea 04:13:25 http://scribes.sf.net/ needs gnome-python though 04:14:09 Daemmerung, it is not that I don't want it discussed; I was just surprised when someone asked me about it, and I don't want URIs in we have no "wodewick" 04:14:48 xwl_` [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 04:14:55 How about Woger? Welease Woger! 04:14:56 incubot: There was a young man from Nebraska 04:14:58 I only stopped overnight in Nebraska, Chicago, and Indiana 04:14:59 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:15:37 man, I've spent the last couple of days debugging a memory leak in Python. I'm pretty sure this sort of thing doesn't happen in the better Schemes :-| 04:15:47 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-71-98-246-124.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:15:52 (not in the Python interpreter; rather, in some Python code) 04:15:59 That's what ephemerons are designed to help, offby1! 04:16:05 probably. 04:16:26 if I shoot a stream of ephemerons at my program, I'll hear a gentle "ssss" sound, and the memory usage will decline. 04:16:35 Exactly. 04:16:35 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:43 I say blame the interpreter anyway. 04:16:45 That's why it is important that they be standardized and implemented. 04:17:37 Daemmerung: back in Ye Olde Days, I used to blame the compiler. 04:18:23 offby1: one of the charming things about These Modern Times is that we have so many more compilers on which to foist blame. 04:18:37 zbigniew: You mean Roderick Frederick Ronald Arnold William MacArthur McBan CLI? 04:18:46 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-71-98-246-124.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:52 No, jcowan. He means Sassoon David Sassoon. 04:19:12 *Daemmerung* never noticed before the digital nature of "CLI" 04:19:27 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:19 I don't think Cordwainer Smith did either. 04:21:53 Cordwainer Bird, maybe. 04:22:18 jcowan: Your chops are choppier than mine. 04:22:25 *Daemmerung* leaves to Google a bit 04:25:05 I did have to look up some of Rod McBan's names, I admit. Getting senile. 04:26:17 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:26:20 jengle [~9598170f@gateway/web/freenode/x-alvvcklfegnyxppo] has joined #scheme 04:29:14 gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.249.11] has joined #scheme 04:29:51 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 04:29:52 I meant, leave to Google a bit 04:29:57 Please don't sue me 04:30:15 I have a wife and two lovely cats to feed 04:32:03 Google, FWIU, doesn't object to the verb "google" as long as you use Google to do your googling. 04:32:13 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32:14 It's used constantly internally. 04:33:35 I'm Cuiler than that. 04:34:05 Bing-o. 04:34:41 Too late, I've switched to the Fresh New Taste of Bing! the Berciless. 04:34:48 Also, jinx, dammit. 04:36:08 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has left #scheme 04:36:11 Whereas when I was taking a course at Xerox and asked for a "xerox machine", I got glowers all around. "You mean a *copier*." 04:36:51 And see where they are today. 04:38:25 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-61.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:39:41 Somewhere in Palo Alto? 04:39:49 Hey, at one time I was the only Mesa programmer in industry anywhere between Boston and Baltimore. 04:39:50 .oO("what's digital about 151?") 04:40:24 (...or, well, the PARC is; does any of the rest of Xerox matter?) 04:40:30 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:41:04 -!- xwl_` [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:41:24 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 04:43:21 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:44:40 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:45:34 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 04:46:24 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@129-97-208-214.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 04:47:59 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:38 They were significant Schemers, back in the day. Or was Pavel Curtis a force of one? 04:49:03 offby1: gimme some digits, baby 04:49:41 *jcowan* is a force of 0.1 04:50:02 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-175.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:50:28 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 04:50:45 ews [~ews@c-76-102-249-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:51:19 -!- ews is now known as EwS 04:52:56 *offby1* gives Daemmerung the finger 04:53:57 *jcowan* intercepts the finger before Daemmerung can devour it and superglues it back on. 04:54:13 Damn it! I was going to use that finger to loosen my collar. 04:54:52 this is getting too creepy 04:55:22 *Daemmerung* glances around nervously 04:56:42 So *you* say. But I happen to know you haven't eaten anything today. That finger would never have been seen again. 04:57:02 Two words: "transit time" 04:57:09 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@129-97-208-214.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:57:27 *Riastradh* bounces Daemmerung around nervously 04:57:42 Two words: "Include me out" 04:58:00 Is that like commenting you out? 05:00:14 *jcowan* winds up Riastradh's "Think" gear. 05:01:14 Sorry, I'm still in neutral; my gear has a shift to shift, not a crank to wind. 05:01:44 *jcowan* shifts the shift until significant bits start to appear. 05:01:50 *Riastradh* resets. 05:02:00 This is just to say // I have eaten the index finger that was in my ERC buffer // and which you were probably saving to loosen your collar // Forgive me, it was delicious, and I was starving 05:02:12 Awww. What a sweet valentine. 05:02:23 *offby1* high-fives William Carlos Daemmerung 05:02:24 My bloody Valentine 05:03:14 Also, so much depends, etc., etc. 05:04:07 So now we know why that wheelbarrow is red. 05:04:28 that little finger ... so much blood 05:04:31 hey, that's MY finger. 05:04:31 I typically use the rain water to wash away evidence. 05:04:33 *offby1* counts 05:06:19 Down to CL, now. 05:06:53 ooh, I always wanted a Minolta CL 05:08:00 CL? That is a #lisp Worship Word. You will not speak it! 05:08:15 Beware of Nikolta cameras. They do not have warning labels on the back advising against photographic psychotic Hollywood celebrities barfing in dark alleys. 05:08:30 s/photographic/photography of/1 05:09:45 jcowan: Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am 05:09:59 White noise, I presume. 05:10:00 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:10:30 Riastradh: I think before you said that you had overcome you initial . . . troubles, with Git? Are you still limiting the number of features you use in Git? 05:10:41 *jcowan* 's new book arrivres: a history of American archaeology. 05:10:50 Try using Na; that will violently react with the rainwater, and combine with the Cl you've already used to yield table salt, which is completely innocent-looking, especially in an area with lots of snow. 05:12:04 arcfide, I don't know; mostly I use git clone, pull, log, show, push, commit, and annotate, very minimally. 05:12:11 Unfortunately, we appear to have sent all of our snow East this year. Otherwise, good idea. 05:12:36 Hope all you E coast types are enjoying it. 05:12:47 You must have misaddressed it, Daemmerung. The post office sent it all down further south in Virginia and such, I hear. It has been pretty paltry further north. 05:12:51 About like my view of 'vi': I know h, j, k, l, x, i, and the most important command, Q. 05:13:07 jcowan, surely you know :q!. 05:13:19 even I know that much vi 05:13:27 that rhymes, y'know 05:13:29 Ahhhhhhh more digits 05:13:41 *Daemmerung* hungers 05:14:34 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 05:15:22 Riastradh: I know it exists, but I'd rather type Q, which puts me back in the Real World. 05:15:31 -!- arcfide [arcfide@140-182-146-235.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 05:15:48 Of course, my view of Emacs is even more limited: C-g, C-x C-c, and M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead. 05:17:09 What's C-x C-c supposed to do? 05:17:28 print an exhortation from RMS 05:17:38 actually, that's true of every key sequence 05:18:13 It gets me the hell out of Emacs, should I happen to fall in. 05:18:44 Gee, my Emacs says that C-x C-c is undefined. 05:19:06 No doubt. 05:19:37 "You can check out any time you like ... but you can never leave" 05:19:39 "C-x C-x runs the command save-buffers-kill emacs" 05:19:58 Yikes. I type C-x C-x all the time, but it doesn't run that command for me. Are yo sure your Emacs is OK? 05:20:13 Or C-x C-x. Hard to type with only one elbow. 05:20:20 C-X C-c 05:20:22 `you' 05:20:35 (Apparently it's hard to type with all ten digits, too.) 05:21:09 Not easy with all 20, either. 05:22:15 I might as well recruit the toes, god knows. Not having much luck with the fingers at present. 05:23:11 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.249.11] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:24:00 When I type C-x C-x into my vanilla emacs, it says "No mark set in this buffer". 05:24:35 That's because you didn't type C-SPC to set a mark. 05:26:09 Yeah. And now C-x C-c doesn't work any more. 05:26:12 But I am not deceived. 05:26:17 I closed it from the window manager! 05:26:25 And "killall emacs" would have worked too. 05:26:34 The way to exit Emacs, anyway, is M-x save-buffers-kill-emacs RET (or M-x save-buffers-kill-scheme RET). 05:29:07 Well, M-x kill-emacs works nicely. 05:29:19 If you don't mind losing data, sure. 05:29:35 Except if you have your right hand one key to the left, in which case you find yourself typing M-x kill-rms .... 05:30:08 In related news, Paul is dead. 05:30:32 No no no! It's John who's dead. Get it right, fergawdssake. 05:31:06 You silly buffoons, he's both dead, and it's now that chap Ratzinger who's pope. 05:31:19 I calls him "Benny da Rat" 05:31:31 Because popin' ain't easy 05:32:08 *jcowan* reads the Pope Poop 05:32:36 or in full 05:32:39 The Greater Metropolitan Yorba Linda Herald-News-Tribune-Journal-Dispatch- Post and San Francisco Discordian Society Cabal Bulletin and Intergalactic Report and Pope Poop 05:32:45 "This is not a Pope" 05:33:00 "Ceci n'est pas un pape" 05:33:32 C'est une Chateauneuf-de-Pape 05:33:55 (probably boogered the gosh-darned declension there) 05:34:25 To be precise, Daemmerung, you declined to decline correctly. 05:34:49 Screwing up the gender is a traditional privilege of anglophones, as in "Le Morte Darthur". 05:34:59 That's my usual declination, if not my inclination. 05:35:05 *Riastradh* twitches. 05:35:07 If I had a nickel for every time I've written "une systeme", I'd be ferromagnetic. 05:35:23 *Daemmerung* checks his compass 05:35:48 Then again, my hispanophone friend can't see why we don't say "this dog", "these dogs", "this big dog", "these bigs dogs" 05:36:03 *Riastradh* disturbs Daemmerung's comp�s. 05:36:44 As I feared. I have to recalc its declination. 05:36:58 jcowan, obviously, the reason is that English has too many words already, and adding plurals of all the adjectives would make it utterly unmanageable. 05:37:16 In any case, English is pluralistic enough as is. 05:37:40 And then let's add mass/count nouns. As seen in the Chinglish "stuffs." 05:38:34 All Chinese nouns are mass nouns. 05:38:42 I did not know that. 05:38:45 ... 05:38:50 Hey, it's jcowan! O_o 05:38:52 \o/ 05:39:05 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-199.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:40:04 *Riastradh* raises several eyebrows. 05:40:35 *djanatyn* lowers Riastradh's eyebrows. 05:40:37 *Daemmerung* calls. 05:41:01 Daemmerung: That's why they have to have classifiers when counted, just like we have to say "two ears of corn", not "two corns", though you'd think nothing was more countable than an ear of maize. 05:41:23 Riastradh: djanatyn and I have met before. 05:41:38 jcowan: Oh, cool. Thai works the same way. I never generalized that to the Chinglish pattern, though. 05:42:01 *djanatyn* is also *very* new to Scheme. 05:42:03 Like, starting today. 05:42:18 jcowan, well, naturally, because two corns are very different beasts from two ears of corn, one of which sits on the feet and the other of which in the teeth. 05:42:19 I also have a question. 05:42:38 *Daemmerung* gets on-topic with a quickness 05:43:04 I tried earlier to make a really, really, *really* simple counting program, but for some reason, it failed. 05:43:08 Scheme is not like other langauges. 05:43:18 it's 4 lines - can I post it? 05:43:30 djanatyn, sure, use lisppaste: 05:43:31 kilimanj4ro [~kilimanja@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:43:31 lisppaste: url 05:43:31 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 05:43:38 -!- kilimanj4ro [~kilimanja@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:46 "corn" in BrE means "the grain of the country": wheat in England, oats in Scotland, rice in China, maize in North America. 05:43:50 excellent. 05:44:19 djanatyn pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94615 05:44:33 Ooh. 05:44:35 That's pretty cool. 05:44:51 IRC integration in a pastebin is definitely a good idea. 05:45:02 As I said, I just started learning Scheme today. :) 05:45:22 There's XML-RPC integration, too; in Emacs (or at least, in Edwin), I just type M-x lisppaste-region. 05:45:48 *offby1* does M-x gist-region, but that requires (don't tell anyone!) ruby. 05:46:05 djanatyn: So what are you observing, and what are you inspecting instead? 05:46:10 s/inspecting/expecting 05:46:10 What does that do, summarize the ideas in the region for you so that you don't have to go to all the trouble to figure them out for yourself, offby1? 05:46:38 ... 05:46:44 *djanatyn* does not understand your vocabulary. 05:46:58 djanatyn: Your problem is that you are treating "define" as an expression, but it isn't. 05:47:00 Are those scheme syntax magic words? 05:47:02 djanatyn: You say that the program does not work. What do you want it to do? 05:47:07 :) 05:47:26 djanatyn: No, it's Emacs magic words. Most Scheme weenies are Emacs weenies too (but not me) 05:47:31 I want to increment the variable a and print it, until it reaches 11. 05:47:44 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:47:57 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.224] has joined #scheme 05:48:04 So, define is not an expression? 05:48:12 Is there an equivalent expression? 05:48:40 Well, there is nothing resembling a loop. 05:48:45 Do I need to use set! ? 05:48:47 Okay. 05:48:48 Neither is DEFINE an expression, nor is a definition, i.e. something of the form (DEFINE ...), an expression. But first, where does the variable A come from? You never told Scheme to create a variable named A. 05:49:08 Oh. 05:49:17 *djanatyn* was being lazy. Stupid Haskell. 05:49:29 Heh. 05:49:39 For example, you could introduce a variable with LET, and then do something with it: (let ((a 5)) (+ a 1)) That is an expression, which expresses the value 6. 05:49:49 Okay, I see. 05:49:57 Scheme does things *very* differently. 05:50:08 It seems more mathematical than other languages. 05:50:17 I was also wondering...what can Scheme be *used* for? 05:50:25 I mean, other programming languages had very broad applications. 05:50:31 So does Scheme. 05:50:33 In many languages, you must request that variables be created in particular ways. 05:50:41 You can use some for web programming, you can use some to create GUIs, and you can use some for networking... 05:50:56 That's about libraries. Scheme is rather short of standard libraries right now. 05:51:04 I can do all of those in COBOL. 05:51:12 Scheme is a common core around which implementers can add their own extensions. 05:51:13 For example, in Haskell, you cannot simply start using a variable in expressions; you must introduce it either at the top level with a definition, or in the parameters of a lambda, or in a pattern. 05:51:16 Scheme is very broad. PLT's girth is renown. 05:51:38 *Daemmerung* prefers to think of PLT as Falstaffian 05:51:43 For another example, in C, you must declare all variables before their use. 05:52:23 -!- djanatyn [~djanatyn@pool-74-98-199-53.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:52:29 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:52:39 djanatyn [~djanatyn@pool-74-98-199-53.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:52:44 Ah. disconnected. 05:52:54 I was also wondering...what is a good compiler for Scheme? 05:53:00 I'm on Debian, and I'm currently using Guile. 05:53:07 My friend reccommended chicken... 05:53:10 (You can find a log of the conversation at , by the way, in case you missed any of it.) 05:53:43 First learn Scheme, then worry about good compiles. 05:53:44 compilers. 05:53:51 Different Schemes have different strengths. 05:54:10 djanatyn: I tend to point to PLT Scheme as the first port of call. It's a "broad" (or as others would say, "batteries-included") implementation with good documentation. 05:54:12 Wow, that log file updates quickly. :) 05:55:28 IRC integration in the file system. 05:56:11 jcowan: There are implementations I would not encourage a new Scheme user to learn with, and there are implementations I would encourage a new Scheme user not to learn with. Guile (not counting the 2.x betas that I honestly haven't had much opportunity to look at) belongs to the latter category, so it's good that djanatyn asked the question. 05:56:53 I don't disagree. I was focusing on the word "compiler", perhaps inappropriately. 05:57:14 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:57:32 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 05:58:56 arcfide [arcfide@99.14.210.134] has joined #scheme 05:59:02 Hmm. 05:59:15 I think I'm definitely using let wrong. 05:59:23 (let ((a 10)))? 05:59:27 or, as we like to say: UR DOIN IT RONG 05:59:35 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10))) 05:59:41 *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 05:59:46 A LET expression always has a body. The scope of the variables created by LET is limited to the body of the LET. 05:59:48 *sigh* 05:59:51 *Daemmerung* thwaps rudybot 05:59:59 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10))) 06:00:00 *offby1: error: eval:1:0: let: bad syntax in: (let ((a 10))) 06:00:06 Hmm. 06:00:08 sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't 06:00:12 I'm baaaaack.... 06:00:14 djanatyn: are you working through a book? There are some very good ones. 06:00:21 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10)) (cons 'a (cons 'is a))) 06:00:22 *offby1: ; Value: (a is . 10) 06:00:36 Specifically, the rule for evaluatin the expression (LET (( )) ) is to evaluate , and then to evaluate with bound to the value of . is not bound outside the LET, however. 06:00:43 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10)) (list 'a 'is a))) 06:00:43 *offby1: error: eval:1:30: read: unexpected `)' 06:00:46 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10)) (list 'a 'is a)) 06:00:46 *offby1: ; Value: (a is 10) 06:01:03 http://www.cs.hut.fi/Studies/T-93.210/schemetutorial/node4.html <-- my current tutorial. 06:01:11 This one seems pretty good - not too complicated. 06:01:16 *offby1* ph33rs the random tutorial 06:01:19 I looked at a common lisp tutorial, and it was...difficult. 06:01:35 that's because CLrs want you to think they're smarter than you 06:02:50 So, what would I need to type? I'm a little confused as to (let). 06:03:01 I'm trying to say, a = 10. 06:03:07 int a = 10; :) 06:03:38 well, let ((a 10)) is the idea. But "let" wants you to -do something- with a 06:03:49 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10)) 'something-gotta-go-here) 06:03:50 *offby1: ; Value: something-gotta-go-here 06:03:56 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10)) 'doesnt-matter-what) 06:03:57 *offby1: ; Value: doesnt-matter-what 06:04:00 rudybot: eval (let ((a 10)) ) 06:04:00 I would recommend finding a different tutorial. The #scheme tutorial starts off friendly and helpful, but quickly becomes cranky. 06:04:01 *offby1: error: eval:1:0: let: bad syntax in: (let ((a 10))) 06:04:14 *Daemmerung* resembles that remark 06:04:16 eval (let ((a 109)) a) 06:04:16 Heh heh. 06:04:21 chandler: don't call me cranky, you old anarchist 06:04:26 For your whole program? Then put (define a 10) outside of any expressions, at the top level. For only a part of the program, like for a block in C? Then use (let ((a 10)) ...) where ... is the part of the program where you want to do something with A. 06:04:30 rudybot: eval (let ((a 100)) a) 06:04:30 *offby1: ; Value: 100 06:04:32 eval (let ((a 109)) print a) 06:04:42 Ohhhh. 06:04:46 What Riastradh said made sense. 06:04:47 :) 06:04:59 many #schemers make confused newbie 06:05:10 Hmm. 06:05:13 In this case confused == good. 06:05:15 Now I'm back to my original program. 06:05:24 (Or plain wrong or incomprehensible, depending on who's around to answer questions. I sometimes think that some users in this channel have had essential communication-related brain functions eaten by aliens.) 06:05:36 no! 06:05:39 Oh. 06:05:42 I just realized something. 06:05:51 I forgot to paste the first line of my original program >_> 06:05:54 more like, alternate communication-related brain functions replaced by aliens 06:06:05 chandler: A more conservative hypothesis is that they are (a) not paying attention or (b) trolling. 06:06:07 s/replaced/supplied/ 06:06:17 (c) really pedantic 06:06:19 *offby1* ducks 06:06:22 djanatyn annotated #94615 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94615#1 06:06:28 Graah. 06:06:33 djanatyn: Catherin's tutorial doesn't seem to be working for you. There exists a better structured document called "Teach yourself Scheme in fixnum days" -- you might try seeking that. If you're not allergic to printed documentation, I highly recommend buying a paper bopk called "The Little Schemer." 06:06:35 That was not complte >_> 06:06:40 sepult neatly demonstrated the "plain wrong" part of that as I was typing, it seems. 06:07:01 Pedantic? Who here is pedantic? 06:07:18 rudybot: eval (begin (define a 10) (if (< a 11) (+ a 1))) 06:07:18 You, me, anyone. 06:07:19 *offby1: error: eval:1:21: if: bad syntax (must have an "else" expression) in: (if (< a 11) (+ a 1)) 06:07:20 djanatyn annotated #94615 "try again!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94615#2 06:07:26 There we go. 06:07:28 rudybot: init r5rs 06:07:29 *offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready 06:07:32 rudybot: eval (begin (define a 10) (if (< a 11) (+ a 1))) 06:07:33 *offby1: ; Value: 11 06:07:35 Pedantry is a subspecies of trolling, when dealing with newbies. 06:07:40 eval (let ((a 109)) (print a)) 06:07:41 offby1: It's not the pedants who bother me. 06:07:52 eval (let ((a 109)) '(print a)) 06:07:58 eval (let ((a 109)) 'print a) 06:08:01 sepult: say "rudybot:" first 06:08:06 oh 06:08:08 rudybot: eval (let ((a 109)) 'print a) 06:08:08 lol 06:08:09 *offby1: ; Value: 109 06:08:11 jcowan: So how's life as a WG Chair? 06:08:13 Pederants? In MY #scheme?? 06:08:24 rudybot: eval (let ((a 109)) 'print a) 06:08:26 sepult: your sandbox is ready 06:08:26 sepult: ; Value: 109 06:08:27 pedants 06:08:30 not pederants 06:08:34 puissants 06:08:34 Correctness is a virtue. In fact, it's the only one known to be recognizable by computers. 06:08:44 clarity is also a virtua 06:08:46 e 06:08:51 i never knew that in r5rs scheme you can use if without an else clause 06:08:53 iou 06:08:57 oddly, the two are sometimes in conflict 06:08:57 rudybot: eval (let ((a 109)) (print a)) 06:08:58 sepult: ; stdout: "109" 06:09:15 rudybot: eval (print print) 06:09:15 sepult, consider doing your personal experimentation in private -- perhaps even on your own machine, rather than going to the trouble of using IRC to evaluate expressions. 06:09:16 rudybot: eval (let ((a 109)) print a) 06:09:16 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: print in module: 'program 06:09:16 sepult: ; Value: 109 06:09:26 rudybot: init scheme 06:09:30 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 06:09:32 rudybot: eval (print print) 06:09:32 *offby1: ; stdout: "#" 06:09:51 Riastradh: hmph, I was having fun playing along 06:09:58 Len_: If you're very smart, you will now forget about this to spare yourself much future trouble. 06:10:06 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 06:10:28 rudybot: (while (true) (print 11111)) 06:10:29 sepult: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 06:10:40 heheh 06:10:40 Len_: consider the value of (if #f 12). 06:10:57 i don't think that has a value 06:10:57 rudybot: help 06:10:58 sepult: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 06:11:08 rudybot: help while 06:11:09 sepult: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 06:11:12 rudybot: eval (if #f 12) 06:11:15 chandler: your scheme sandbox is ready 06:11:15 chandler: error: eval:1:0: if: bad syntax (must have an "else" expression) in: (if #f 12) 06:11:23 he is in r6rs mode 06:11:23 rudybot: help apropos while 06:11:24 sepult: expecting: help [] 06:11:36 rudybot: init r5rs 06:11:37 Daemmerung: your r5rs sandbox is ready 06:11:38 Len_: No, it's in "scheme" mode. 06:11:43 rudybot: help 'while 06:11:44 sepult: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 06:11:45 sepult, please consider interacting privately with rudybot. 06:11:50 i somehow assumed it uses mzscheme 06:11:52 rudybot: eval (if #f 'yomomma) 06:11:52 sepult: Please don't do that here. 06:11:56 and that "scheme mode" means #lang scheme 06:12:06