00:00:17 (and sbank should work on PLT now) 00:00:29 -!- repeteke [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:00:31 rotty: huh, never looked at that. Some kind of interface definition thing? 00:00:49 synx: yep 00:01:28 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:01:28 http://rotty.yi.org/software/sbank/tutorial.html 00:01:31 Wow sbank looks pretty cool. 00:01:31 promising at least. 00:05:30 the "build process" is a bit rough on PLT now, that's why there's no mention of PLT on the webpages yet 00:07:31 that's partly due to PLT having slightly different R6RS library mapping rules than Ikarus and Ypsilon -- hopefully via SRFI-103 this will eventually be settled 00:09:09 synx: but it *is* possible to get it running without too much hassle -- let me know if you want to give it a try 00:10:43 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DCC25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:16:38 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:16:56 buttons840 [n=buttons8@c-76-27-4-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:29 bytecolor [n=user@32.153.22.157] has joined #scheme 00:21:01 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:21:27 dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:22:10 -!- davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:10 -!- awarrington____ [n=quassel@officebv.conductor.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:32:34 -!- hotblack231 [n=jh@p4FC5A7F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:34:36 say I have a list (#t '()) how do I append elements to '()? Do I have to create a new list at each append, or can I use something like set-cdr! ? 00:36:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:36:43 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:37:42 -!- thermal_ [n=thermal_@c-24-18-249-200.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:39:15 so If I added '(foo) => (#t ((foo))), then add #\x => (#t ((foo) #\x)), etc. 00:39:23 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:41:34 I do want to give it a try rotty. There is a lot of GTK stuff I made that I haven't been able to work with since it's still stuck in python (with bad db support (and segfaults)). 00:41:37 I've also been interested in Ypsilon itself, though I heard it was frozen in development. 00:41:37 don't recall Ikarus... 00:41:50 Isn't Ikarus 32-bit only? 00:41:51 bytecolor: generally you want to create a new list at each append. cons does that. 00:42:28 rudybot: eval (define thing '()) 00:42:29 synx: your scheme/base sandbox is ready 00:42:49 synx: nod, I need the most efficient method 00:42:53 rudybot: eval (cons thing 'foo) 00:42:53 synx: ; Value: (() . foo) 00:43:36 cons is the most efficient method. If you really think you need set-cdr, use vectors. 00:44:01 hrm, had not thought about vectors 00:44:04 set-cdr! sorry 00:44:26 or make a mutable struct 00:47:15 synx: sorry, unnoticed disconnect from IRC proxy 00:47:24 -!- buttons840 [n=buttons8@c-76-27-4-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #scheme 00:47:42 no problem rotty 00:47:48 synx: Ikarus from bzr has been 64bit-capable for quite a while now 00:48:12 oh, hm... 00:48:27 I'll be sure to check it out then. Not that 32 bit emulation is bad, necessarily, but... 00:48:55 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 00:50:18 synx: I'd suggest you first install Ypsilon or Ikarus (from SVN/bzr), and then follow the installation instructions on http://rotty.yi.org/software/sbank/. If that worked, running it using mzscheme should be just a few commands away 00:52:14 in a scheme that allows something like (string-fill! (symbol->string (string->symbol "abc")) #\x), should eqv? 'xxx and the previous be true or false ? 00:53:33 (the idea is to use Ikarus/Ypsilon for the build (i.e. file generation) and then run the result on PLT) 00:53:49 assuming i keep the (string->symbol "abc") somewhere, ofc 00:55:22 bytecolor: if you're repeatedly appending values to a list--e.g. (1) (1 2) (1 2 3)--normally you will want to cons the list up in reverse order, then reverse the list 00:58:26 zbigniew: nod, I do that when building lists in recursive procedures sometimes, just looking for the most efficient way. This is happening a lot in the core of my parser. 00:58:54 cmatei: you're asking if (eqv? "xxx" 'xxx)? 01:00:19 wait... no you aren't 01:00:20 no, i'am asking if I'm overwriting the symbol-string of a symbol to "xxx", should it become eqv? to 'xxx 01:00:48 bytecolor: There exist data structures with effective `append' (e.g. vectors in clojure) 01:01:03 You may want to implement one 01:01:15 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 01:01:34 oh symbol->string makes a new string 01:01:56 rotty: working on it. Unfortunately apt got its PGP sigs confused again so I can't install bazaar at the moment. :/ 01:02:37 Mr-Cat: nod, I haven't used vectors yet in scheme, I think it's because I got the idea in my head from R5RS that they are of fixed size, not like a std::vector in C++ 01:03:11 synx: does "apt-key update" help? 01:03:15 cmatei: anyways, symbols are immutable 01:03:45 rotty: nope. 01:04:03 bytecolor: why do you need to do repeated appends to a list? 01:04:52 synx: I don't use apt much (I use mostly aptitude), but doesn't it allow to install untrusted packages (after confirmation) as well? I'm pretty sure aptitude does... 01:05:06 SharkBrain: symbols yes, I was wondering about the string behind them. I guess you're right about the copy in symbol->string 01:05:26 bytecolor: Yes, in scheme `vector' has fixed length. In clojure one can add elements to vector's tail. 01:05:38 zbigniew: each parser returns a cons (did it succeed, what was matched) 01:06:13 Mr-Cat: I was just reading srfi-43 which has an append, but it creates a new vector 01:06:14 bytecolor: Without mutating the vector of course. 01:06:20 nod 01:06:41 bytecolor: so, your "what was matched" is just a list of things that were matched in the order that they were matched? 01:07:06 it does rotty, but if I can't verify their signatures how do I know they aren't corrupted? 01:07:25 zbigniew: yes, kleene start returns a possibly empty list of sub-parser matches 01:08:09 (* #\x #\y) => (), (x y), (x y x y), etc. 01:08:11 bytecolor: Clojure's vector's are immutable and are not cloned completely when appending. 01:08:22 s/vector's/vectors 01:09:05 bytecolor: cons in a tail-recursive loop followed by reverse is standard and efficient 01:09:35 zbigniew: nod, I was considering that first 01:10:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:12:04 synx: by trusting your DNS ;-)? but sure, you have a point. I guess "apt-get update" doesn't help either? 01:12:20 synx: anyways, gotta go to sleep now -- good night 01:12:34 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:13:13 *bytecolor* needs #xf00d 01:13:24 thanks for the suggestions people, I'll think on it 01:23:02 -!- alvatar [n=alvatar@227.232.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["leaving"] 01:23:46 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:26:28 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:30:48 happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has joined #scheme 01:44:29 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:48:04 -!- saint_cypher_ [n=saint_cy@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:58:48 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-245.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 01:58:48 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-245.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:01:24 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:03:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-crltwahbshmibtdo] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:03:46 *eli* starts another full git-svn round 02:04:10 offby1: I just discovered `--authors-file' 02:19:45 offby1: ping 02:26:35 *Daemmerung* tinkers idly with swank-gambit 02:33:28 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit ["Smoove out."] 02:34:51 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 02:35:43 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 02:38:18 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:41:13 eli: pong 02:41:33 --authors-file ... izzat a mapping from email addresses to full names? 02:41:37 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-180-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:41:43 yes 02:41:56 Do you know how hard it is to ask them for more space? 02:42:03 for i in '[alias]' 'pissing-contest = shortlog -s -n'; do echo $i >> ~/.gitconfig; done 02:42:13 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Client Quit] 02:42:20 github? No, but I imagine it's like "I want more space; here's $40" 02:42:26 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 02:42:34 $40 is much more than $40... 02:42:41 no, actually: 02:42:43 Supposed to be free for FOSS 02:42:45 rudybot: eval (< 40 40) 02:42:52 oh, maybe it is. 02:42:56 *offby1* kicks rudybot 02:42:56 Daemmerung: indeed 02:43:09 rudybot wouldn't know about academic bureaucracy etc... 02:43:19 offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 02:43:29 Ho. ho. ho. 02:43:30 Anyway, they say that the limit is 300mb, and the thing that I made is already at 280mb. 02:43:38 rudybot: eval (< 40 40) 02:43:40 (After that stupid gc thing.) 02:43:44 offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 02:43:50 *offby1* fumes 02:45:47 eli: "The 300MB is a soft limit setup to prevent abuse of the service. If your open source project needs more space, email us, we're happy to provide it." 02:45:55 from github.com 02:46:56 SharkBrain: Yes, I saw that -- the question is whether anyone has experience doing that. One extreme is that they'll go through some long procedure and give me another 50mb, another extreme is that they'll say "no problems" and double it. 02:47:27 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 02:47:28 ah, sorry. I misunderstood 02:48:01 At least with google things, they were pretty close to the latter. 02:49:31 eli: So how big is it? 02:49:35 I would assume the latter is far more likely 02:49:48 Import a Subversion Repository: The import process could take as little as 5 minutes to as long as 5 days depending on the size of your repository. This has everything to do with how slow subversion is, but we're working on speeding up the process. 02:50:11 This whole git thing is like a giant stupid anti subversion cult thing. 02:50:16 now now 02:50:26 -!- Len_ [n=Len@IGLD-84-228-254-219.inter.net.il] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:50:42 eli: I know at least one other very smart person who feels the same way 02:50:54 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-180-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:56 I suspect that doing the equivalent of svn dump over 5 days would be bigger than any existing project. 02:51:14 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.166.125] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:51:36 So what's slow might be their setup, git's import thing, or any number of things, but it's ridiculous to say that it's svn's speed that can make it take up to 5 days. 02:51:47 mejja: 280mb for the repository that I created. 02:52:52 offby1: BTW, did you use a "rudybot" account to get a better url? 02:53:15 eli: Can I pull it from some place? 02:54:02 mejja: I don't know what needs to be done for pulling, but I put the complet repository at http://tmp.barzilay.org/plt-git.tar 02:54:51 I'm just playing with creating the thing, I'll go over the making it public thing when that's done. 02:59:09 Another git web page: By the way, if you screwed up committing, there's not much you can do with Subversion, except using some enigmatic svnadmin subcommands. 02:59:29 If svn commands are enigmatic, then what's are git commands? 02:59:54 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.153.22.157] has left #scheme 03:00:14 eli: I don't understand your question 03:00:56 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 03:01:16 offby1: Wrong question. I somehow remembered that you had an "offby1"-less url for your repository. 03:01:35 I do? 03:01:45 http://github.com/offby1/rudybot is the only one I know of 03:01:55 s/remembered/MISremembered/ 03:01:59 jinx! 03:02:08 I was about to say EXACTLY that, except for the capitalization 03:02:17 :) 03:02:26 Is there a way to get a username-less url? 03:02:53 It would look a little odd that the plt repository is http://...elibarzilay/plt-scheme. 03:03:03 You could ask for PLT. 03:03:27 Is there actually a good reason for git-izing PLT, or is it just the hip thing to do? 03:03:54 git is fast. fast is good. 03:04:00 Daemmerung: You mean as a username? I doubt that it's available, but even if so, plt/plt-scheme also looks weird. 03:04:29 chandler: Yes, people wanted to work more conveniently on it. I think it came up about 3 times now. 03:04:32 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-245.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:05:08 eli: git://github.com/plt/scheme.git 03:05:25 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 03:05:36 mejja: However fast it may be, svn is not slow enough to need 5 days for a complete repository scan... (IOW, this sounds like some obligatory FUD.) 03:06:12 Daemmerung: Ugh... That also doesn't seem right. 03:06:25 I was unaware that SVN's speed was a problem. 03:06:57 Me too. 03:07:02 I know that "git svn clone" is quite slow, although I've heard rumors that it's sped up some in the last couple weeks 03:07:36 At least on the F12 box I'm doing it on, it took about 8 hours of 100% cpu use. 03:07:38 on a decent, OS (i.e., *nix, not Windows) svn is delightfully fast; git is even faster 03:14:15 eli: So I just downloaded & unpacked your tarball, edited the .git/config to fix the URL, did "git svn fetch", and after spewing a bunch of warnings I've never seen before, it appeared to work fine. 03:16:43 Ah, so `git svn fetch' is for updating it? 03:16:48 yes. 03:17:10 weird. The .git/objects directory is only 65M; usually that's (by far) the largest part of the .git directory. But .git/svn is almost 200M 03:17:25 vlowther [n=vlowther@99.69.149.25] has joined #scheme 03:17:26 "git svn fetch" updates the objects, but doesn't touch the working tree. 03:17:29 And why isn't the --rewrite-root working? 03:17:37 because I disabled it :) 03:17:49 I didn't want "git svn fetch" to poke around in my local file system, as that would make no sense 03:17:53 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:18:38 Isn't it bogus to allow such a command-line and then make it possible to ignore it? 03:18:52 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:18:55 er? 03:18:57 say what? 03:19:26 I thought that the whole point of that flag is to make the repository appear to come from http://... 03:20:02 but instead, it just records a polite request to make whoever uses it to use the http:// url. 03:20:43 well, all I know is: the stuff in .git/config looked very much like it expected a svn repository to be on my local disk, so I changed it 03:20:54 I didn't actually try anything before I changed it; I just done did it. 03:21:08 Yes, that's exactly what I thought it wouldn't have, when I use that flag... 03:21:57 Were there any warnings that look like stuff is broken? 03:22:04 nope 03:22:22 there were warnings to the effect that it was rebuilding a cache. If I still have those in my scrollback, I'll paste 'em so you can look at 'em 03:22:39 nope, truncated 'em 03:22:47 ok 03:23:15 More FUD: Subversion marks certain checkpoints in history through copies, the copy is usually placed in a directory named tags. Git tags are much more powerful. 03:23:27 So what are you waiting for? Take the pill and get rid of svn. 03:24:00 eli: when I first heard about it, and even after having used it for a while, I liked the way svn does branching and tagging; it seemed so clean. 03:24:19 But after doing merges in the Real World, and being bitten in the ass time after time, I became less enamored. 03:24:56 On the other hand, I have never found anything resembling a bug in git (with the notable exception of a couple of bugs in, alas, git-svn; the first had been fixed by the time I reported it, and the second one is still pending) 03:25:43 mejja: I think that the very uniform approach to tags and branches in svn is one of it's best features, and I view the symbolic git thing as a step back into cvs land. Therefore saying that "Git tags are much more powerful" is highly bogus. 03:26:35 offby1: I think that we had a few (very few) cases where people did some bad merges, but the flexibility that you get as a result is great. 03:26:58 That is, the ability to branch any part you want, to have your own in-branch branches and tags, etc. 03:28:07 *shrug* 03:28:27 git is perhaps less wonderful than its most ardent admirers claim, but probably better than you think 03:29:01 I'm pretty conservative, and I don't generally jump on the bandwagon of the latest cool thing 03:30:16 Says the man in the text-only IRC channel dedicated to a 35 year old programming language. 03:30:46 Isn't irc cool? 03:31:11 Needs more flashing toolbar buttons. 03:31:25 And avatars. 03:31:35 I asked in class today if anyone knows what a newsgroup is. Looks like more students know that, due to its revival as a way to download movies. 03:32:00 s/know that/know what it is/ 03:32:40 eli: quit talking like that 03:32:47 i.e., making me feel old 03:32:55 arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-139.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:32:56 Daemmerung: Don't make me fire up MS Comic Chat! 03:33:08 *Daemmerung* twitches 03:33:38 *chandler* hurls offby1's dentures at Daemmerung 03:33:48 I'm afraid I don't have any of my own to hurl, but it seemed like a good thing to do nonetheless. 03:33:54 *Daemmerung* fails his saving throw 03:34:03 Euw. 03:34:15 chandler: those are meant for mbishop. See I've written his name on them, right there? 03:34:24 Double euw. 03:34:40 offby1: That's the next hop. Daemmerung seems to be a bit of a lossy router, though. 03:34:59 soft head 03:35:01 inelastic 03:35:21 Medic! 03:36:13 *arcfide* tosses Daemmerung a scalpel and an accompanying man page. 03:37:07 incubot: man 7 spleen 03:37:10 you had your spleen removed? 03:37:43 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:38:49 srp [n=srp@115.118.212.168] has joined #scheme 03:40:29 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@pool-71-101-160-3.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:47:35 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 03:48:52 -!- srp [n=srp@115.118.212.168] has quit [] 03:49:02 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 03:51:56 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:55 tjafk [n=timj@e176209006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:54:30 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:57:19 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-180-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:57:22 joelmccracken_ [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-180-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:14 incubot: In epic upset, GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate race 04:02:17 i wouldnt be upset if scheme didnt have VALUES 04:02:37 The git manual: This tree is available to Andrew for pulling into -mm whenever he wants. 04:03:06 you read manuals? O_O 04:03:10 *mejja* laughs 04:03:15 Who is the moron who thought that this is a manual? 04:03:51 Am I expected to look for who "Andrew" and "-mm" might be to read this thing? 04:03:58 *eli* sighs 04:05:26 They certainly are extremely full of themselves, for people who keep saying how git is great because there's no central group, and no decisions for who is in and who is out. 04:06:35 Perhaps that's why git is so popular in those circles -- this amount of pompousness with a central repository would make people's ego inflate so much that you'll see developers pop up all over the web. 04:07:06 The best thing about finally groking git is that one can stop reading the endless freetard love sonnets to it. 04:07:47 I'm not faulting the manuals, but the thousand of fanboy pages that supplement same. 04:08:03 Yes, it's certainly overwhelming. 04:08:21 -!- timj [n=timj@e176220071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:09:02 "Apologies that this tutorial kind of slipped into becoming an advocacy article, " <-- rare example of self awareness 04:09:16 Hahaha. 04:09:42 eli: Are you trying to use Git for something useful? 04:10:49 Daemmerung: I certainly didn't see anything yet that didn't have some "git is great" parts. 04:11:08 arcfide: Not really, just trying to figure out how to mirror the svn repository in git. 04:12:35 bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 04:12:57 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:14:13 there is no git but git 04:17:37 git r done!!! 04:19:18 git-bizzy-yall 04:27:23 So, I think i've heard this somewhere before, but what's the distribution of version control systems here? Lots of darcs folks, right? 04:28:06 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 04:35:33 I use whatever I am told to use. 04:36:12 Does Ria (whoa. autocomplete didn't work. he's not here) still use darcs? He's the only one I know. 04:36:44 Daemmerung: Yeah, he uses Darcs. I've seen a few others here using Darcs. 04:37:03 I like to use OpenCVS when I am on OpenBSD, but I'm using Monotone right now. 04:43:17 Riastradh does seem to have taken a leave of absence quite often from IRC, it seems. :-) 04:44:08 people disconnecting from IRC weirds me out 04:46:20 I like darcs, but at least when I used it it was actually too slow (and with my usage patterns it's hard for a DVCS to be slow). 04:46:41 (It's of course easy for a VCS to be slow, and they always are.) 04:47:05 we use darcs (at CMU) for some largeish projects without much trouble 04:48:28 I've also heard 2.x is much faster. 04:48:33 -!- foof` is now known as foof 04:48:38 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:48:43 we're using 2.2.0 04:48:54 while not *blazing*, it's at least useable 04:51:58 I'm happy with xmonad, though, so still make use of haskell on a daily basis :) 05:09:22 nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:29:01 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:30:30 saint_cypher [n=saint_cy@24.130.33.243] has joined #scheme 05:43:38 I still didn't manage to get both the list of tab/virtual desktops and the date in my dzen bar, with xmonad 05:46:13 And I use mercurial instead of git/darcs, but that was a random choice. 05:46:38 Axioplase_: Nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine 05:50:09 mejja: that's the thing about random You're never sure 05:51:06 *mejja* loves dilbert 05:53:33 But I meant "the three have to be equivalent, according to the amount of noise/flame/trolling in any discussion target one or the other. So I just threw a coin and decided to use whichever of the three one corresponding to the face pointing upwards" 05:54:05 And yeah, I use fair coins with a prob of 1/3 per side. 05:54:32 *Axioplase_* vanishes 06:01:32 Osaka [n=Drone@fl-71-3-64-110.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 06:07:10 -!- bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:37:54 -!- vlowther [n=vlowther@99.69.149.25] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:41:11 -!- devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-151.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:42:38 devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-151.greentreefrog.net.au] has joined #scheme 06:42:56 jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.203] has joined #scheme 06:44:59 vaasu [n=user@123.176.20.39] has joined #scheme 06:46:06 hi, can anyone translate page 6, fandcons function in scheme, of http://www.md.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Papers/whyfp.pdf 06:46:39 little hard to grasp under given notation 06:47:21 chylli [n=lchangyi@60.211.210.142] has joined #scheme 06:48:57 bytecolor [n=user@32.153.213.63] has joined #scheme 06:52:30 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:54:37 it probably calls f on some value and cons's it onto a list 06:54:40 but let me see the paper.. 06:55:12 yep, thats exactly what it is 06:59:42 -!- foof [n=user@FL1-119-239-27-41.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:07:10 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:12:35 foof [n=user@FL1-119-239-27-41.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 07:13:13 -!- Osaka [n=Drone@fl-71-3-64-110.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["leaving"] 07:13:50 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:24:13 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 07:33:04 -!- parolang 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[n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:03:33 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06:10 incubot: i used to be feline-sceptical until i experienced the joy of coding with a warm mammal on your lap 10:06:14 yes, but I repeat - this was authored by all the big names in the area. Some of them being professional testers, others being academics, doctors, etc. - and some of them are sceptical. 10:06:18 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A91F8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:06:28 :) 10:07:14 sjamaan: is that a sympathetic smile? 10:09:33 -!- elderK [n=zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:11:14 -!- StucKman [n=mdione@lakshmi.inria.fr] has left #scheme 10:14:57 _nofear [n=maxwell@189.115.8.227] has joined #scheme 10:16:53 yeah 10:21:44 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:22:49 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:24:10 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:25:37 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-139.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 10:28:00 -!- nutmegmagi 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[n=zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 18:17:40 -!- jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.203] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:20:33 -!- alaricsp [n=alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:23:51 arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-224-178.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:25:21 saint_cypher [n=saint_cy@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:05 choas [n=lars@p5B0DCB59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:28:36 rotty: thanks for helping me with getting ikarus started. I can't seem to get it to work with "spe". The error says it can't find the library "(spells fmt)" 18:28:52 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:30:28 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 18:30:35 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:31:52 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 18:32:38 what does ls -l r6rs-libs/spells say? 18:34:57 (I've been hacking on the dorodango package manager lately, and it might be that I accidentially checked in a pkg-list.scm for spells that's not understood by the launch script) 18:35:41 synx: you work around that by doing "ln -s systems/spells/spells r6rs-libs/spells" 18:36:04 s/you work/you could work/ 18:36:19 r6rs-libs/spells -> ../systems/spells 18:36:24 so... r6rs-libs/spells -> ../systems/spells/spells ? 18:36:39 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has joined #scheme 18:38:13 yep, the former is wrong -- my hypothesis above is probably correct 18:38:23 rotty: I do see the fmt.sls stuff in systems/spells/spells 18:38:52 It's also interesting to see your work in progress. :) 18:39:33 synx: glad you find it interesting instead of annoying :-) 18:40:08 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bpdeqlqlaapronil] has joined #scheme 18:40:15 {scripts/launch ikarus build} actually re-links spells to the wrong location. 18:40:17 eventually, sbank should be installable via the dorodango package manager, and all that SPE business will go away 18:40:33 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:40:38 should be interesting 18:41:10 I still want to see scheme package archives that can be mirrored or even torrented. Cross-scheme compatibility isn't as much a big deal to me. 18:41:28 synx: correct it manually, and run "ikarus --r6rs-script scripts/build.sps" instead of "./scripts/launch ikarus build" 18:41:52 sure... 18:42:12 oh, and you'd need to set IKARUS_LIBRARY_PATH to include $PWD/r6rs-libs 18:42:31 Yeah that's totally in the ikarus documentation e_e 18:43:12 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bpdeqlqlaapronil] has quit [Client Quit] 18:43:23 Yo, people! 18:43:43 rotty: actually, scripts/launch seems to set that environment variable correctly, when in ikarus mode. 18:44:01 synx: the package archive I've in mind for dorodango can surely be mirrored, it's similiar in structure to the Debian archive 18:44:21 oh cool, that'll be great then. signed and everything? 18:44:44 synx: yes, the launch script is supposed to take care of that implementation-specific stuff like setting the library path 18:45:06 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-66-37.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:46:00 synx: signing will not be in the first release, but Göran Weinholt has crypto algorithms in his industria library collection, so it should not be too hard to implement 18:46:37 Do you know something like doxygen for scheme? 18:46:41 -!- Arelius` [n=user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:52 signed package files means that even Hitler can mirror it and you don't have to worry. 18:47:21 A thing that'd extract documentation from code comments and infer something from the actual code. 18:47:33 I *would* be worried if he raised from the dead and started mirrorin my scheme code ;-) 18:47:53 mario-goulart: I've done such a beast, but there quite a few others as well 18:48:02 mario-goulart: interestingly someone here was showing how they write documentation, and extract their actual code from it. I don't recall the details though... 18:48:22 Any pointers? 18:48:27 mario-goulart: the probably most advanced is PLTs scribble, but I think it's a bit different from what you described 18:48:29 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-224-178.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 18:48:40 rotty: you know he's chillin it up with Elvis out on Orion's Belt. 18:48:50 I want something that doesn't make me type too much. 18:49:15 I just write self-documenting code. 18:49:17 Lazy bum! :) 18:49:25 That's another way of saying: figure it out yourself hahahahaha 18:49:37 I love ridiculing my future self. 18:49:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-rtnosrerojnieork] has joined #scheme 18:49:42 That is, that doesn't pollute my code more than the strictly necessary (my code is already too polluted by itself). 18:49:56 mario-goulart: my stuff is partly specific to R6RS code. Here's example output: http://rotty.yi.org/software/spells/manual/foreign/index.html 18:50:13 rotty: thanks 18:50:53 I forgot to mention that customizable output is a plus. :-) 18:51:01 mario-goulart: that's what the input looks like (syntax is pretty much texinfo): http://github.com/rotty/spells/blob/master/spells/foreign.sls 18:51:22 rotty: yours is very cool, but I'd like to configure the output format to, say, wiki syntax. 18:52:13 mario-goulart: then you'd have to write a serializer from stexi (texinfo as s-expressions) to wiki syntax 18:53:31 texinfo is nice because it is a semantic markup, as opposed to, say HTML 18:55:04 That looks interesting, rotty. 18:56:20 Hey people! Anyone know of some enlightening papers on Virtual machines? 18:56:26 like, for interpreters and the like? 18:56:49 Actually I was looking for something that could, besides reading comments, finding out that (define (foo arg1 arg2) ...) is a procedure named "foo" which takes two arguments (arg1 and arg2). I'd like not to have to add that information to the comments. 18:57:08 But I also understand the complications of this. 18:57:53 Not for the simple case of (define (foo args) ...), but for other definition styles. 19:02:05 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:56 -!- _nofear [n=maxwell@189.115.8.227] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:04:25 mario-goulart: stexidoc does that, and you can add "extractors" to detect custom syntax 19:05:10 Hmmm. Interesting. 19:05:20 Does it handle cases like 19:05:24 (define foo #f) 19:05:31 (set! foo (lambda () ...)) 19:05:33 ? 19:05:53 *mario-goulart* wants too much... 19:05:54 no, just the simple things 19:05:59 alaricsp [n=alaric@79.135.115.242] has joined #scheme 19:06:56 it also handles a form at a time, so you couldn't even write an extractor for that 19:08:12 Ok. I know I'm too picky now. :-) Thanks for the pointers. 19:09:00 rotty: Scribble doesn't have much to do with documentation from in-source comments, although it could be used for a better syntax (better than some home-cooked half-assed markup), and for a better documentation library functions. 19:12:46 eli: I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last part. documentation library functions = functions that generate documentation? 19:14:21 rotty: There are two parts to scribble, the first is the syntax itself, which makes it convenient to use as a markup language that is still read as scheme code, so you can use a better language than tex; the second part is the actual bindings that are getting used, together with a framework that will actually produce the documentation. 19:14:24 -!- Pepe__ [n=ppjet@82.225.76.148] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:15:02 Belaf [n=campedel@194.209.131.192] has joined #scheme 19:15:37 -!- alaricsp [n=alaric@79.135.115.242] has quit 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0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 22:00:10 -!- dfeuer_ [n=David@pool-71-178-171-65.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:27 -!- oddmunds [n=oddmunds@cm-84.208.85.19.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 22:03:01 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:06:41 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-33-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:09 Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@rn--vse-1-1-a29.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 22:12:47 zoke [n=zoke@rn--vna-1-1-b07.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 22:13:47 I'm having trouble creating a function that takes a list, removes a certain element and then returns the new list 22:16:52 filter? 22:17:17 rember surely 22:17:51 zoke: are you working through a textbook or summat? 22:18:45 zoke: there are only three cases: either the list is empty, or the first element is the element to be removed, or the first element is not the element to be removed. What should you return in each of these cases? 22:20:21 -!- masm [n=masm@bl5-104-169.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:21:45 thanks pjb! 22:21:50 I figured it out 22:22:15 it turns out I was completely forgetting to use cons to add together the elements that I ignored and the elements that were left in the list 22:22:16 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:22:20 -!- snearch [n=olaf@g225056187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:26:49 -!- ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:29:27 masm [n=masm@bl5-104-169.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:33:05 ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 22:35:04 Nass [n=nass@lan31-3-82-226-100-241.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:16 -!- Nass [n=nass@lan31-3-82-226-100-241.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 22:37:42 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:41:07 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:46:40 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-66-37.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:46:48 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 22:52:04 schmir [n=schmir@p54A90104.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:52:25 -!- tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:23 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:37 is there a built in function in scheme such that I can append one list to another ? 23:01:28 zoke: Yes. 23:01:50 But you will be better off writing it yourself, at this point. 23:02:37 Daemmerung: Indeed, everyone needs to implement it correctly at least once. It makes them aware of why you generally want to avoid using it for many cases. 23:03:20 Exactly. 23:04:02 r5rs append 23:04:03 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_420 23:04:12 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5ccsel 23:04:29 Read that carefully. 23:10:41 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A90104.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:17 drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:18:13 thanks guys, but it's not what I was looking for 23:18:25 well it was 23:18:48 but I need something that takes in (x y) and (z x) and returns ((x y) (z x)) 23:20:52 That's list. 23:21:24 Or two calls to `cons'. 23:29:31 nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:29:49 -!- nowhereman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:08 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:34:26 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 23:35:40 jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.203] has joined #scheme 23:38:27 -!- jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.203] has quit [Client Quit] 23:45:10 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:51:10 ventonegro [n=alex@189.100.194.111] has joined #scheme 23:57:01 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]