00:04:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:05:41 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 00:05:53 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:31:23 davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:43:29 TR2N [i=email@89-180-183-110.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 00:47:58 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 00:53:32 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-196-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:56:50 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:58:51 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 01:28:09 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 01:35:47 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:39:14 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-246.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:39:19 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-246.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 01:43:57 -!- dansa [i=dbastos@dhcp-077-250-091-080.chello.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 02:08:56 aputtu [n=aputsiaq@88.83.11.59] has joined #scheme 02:09:33 Yes! 02:09:49 Here comes Arctic Repository 1.2! With Sockets for Windows! 02:09:54 ocetinkaya [n=ocetinka@hopper.cs.bilgi.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 02:10:04 hey 02:10:11 I'm so glad that is done with. 02:10:19 i try to write fibonacci number with tail recursiver 02:10:21 what is my mistake 02:10:23 (define (fib-iter n m) 02:10:23 (if (<= n 0) m (fib-iter n (+ (- n 1) (- n 2))))) 02:10:28 lisppaste: url 02:10:28 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 02:10:37 *arcfide* is just preparing. 02:10:39 arcfide, sorry 02:10:48 ocetinkaya: No you're fine if it's only a couple of lines. 02:10:57 okey 02:11:07 i suppose three lines or more right 02:11:26 what is my error arcfide 02:11:30 ocetinkaya: Well, if it starts getting like that, it's easier to read and write if you just paste your code into the above web page. 02:11:51 okey wait a sec, 02:11:58 ocetinkaya: Well, I don't really want to guess at your error. :-) It's easier if you tell me what error you're getting, and then I can help you understand why you're getting it. At the moment, I think I can see at least one problem. 02:12:11 How many arguments does 'fib-iter' take? 02:12:31 two 02:12:39 one is regular parameter 02:12:49 And which one is used to determine when to stop the recursion/iteration? 02:12:54 second parameter hoolds the value tha comes fromm n 02:13:00 n 02:13:22 if <=n return m 02:13:27 Okay, so what needs to happen on each recursion/iteration in order for fib-iter to stop? 02:13:41 I should say, to stop eventually? 02:13:56 the necessary cxondition is less or equal to 0 02:14:12 (if (<= n 0) 02:14:17 ocetinkaya: Okay, so let's say that I call fib-iter with an 'n' value of 1. 02:14:19 termination condition 02:14:21 What will happen? 02:14:58 i guess (fib 1) it tries to calculate 1 02:15:20 ocetinkaya: Okay, but walk yourself through the code, what happens as it goes through the function? 02:15:21 sorry 02:15:23 -1 02:16:27 let say (fib 3) it calculate(+ (fib (- n 1) (fib (- n 2)) 02:16:36 in m 02:17:29 ocetinkaya: Where in your code does the form (+ (fib (- n 1) (fib (- n 2)) occur? 02:18:02 in parameter m 02:18:28 because in final operation when n less equal 0 it returns the value of m thought 02:18:39 Look at your code there. 02:18:49 i am looking 02:18:54 What is the recursive call to fib-iter? 02:19:25 (fib-iter (- n 1) (+ (- n 1) (- n 2))))) 02:19:46 ocetinkaya: Is that what you wrote up there? 02:19:48 this is call of function 02:20:04 I don't see that call anywhere in your code. 02:20:18 I see a call to fib-iter, but it doesn't look like that. 02:20:20 hmm 02:20:33 what is true call 02:20:42 What is the call that you have above? 02:21:19 Above there, your call looks like this: (fib-iter n (+ (- n 1) (- n 2))), but that doesn't look like what you wrote above, does it? 02:21:35 foof [n=user@FL1-118-110-60-113.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 02:21:51 i change (- n 1) 02:22:06 i guess i have decrease value of n on each calls 02:22:08 So, which is correct? (- n 1) or n? 02:22:12 Yes. 02:22:27 - n 1 i think 02:22:41 it looks like (fib-iter (- n 1) (+ (- n 1) (- n 2))))) 02:23:06 but it doesnrt work true 02:23:14 for any recursive or iterative procedure in general, you have a set of base cases, and a set of recursive cases. Ever recursive call should some how "reduce" the problem into smaller pieces that will eventually bottom out at the base cases. In the case of the fibonacci function, you must reduce the n value so that you eventually reach your base cases. 02:23:22 i call function (fib-iter 5 0) it return -1 02:23:28 That's one problem, but there is another problem. 02:23:48 What does the mathematical function for Fibonacci look like? 02:23:55 what is another problem i dont know drscheme too much 02:24:05 okey 02:24:05 ocetinkaya: This is a good problem. 02:24:10 Let's keep playing with this. 02:24:20 fib(3) = fib(2) + fib(1) 02:24:36 summation of two numbers before 02:24:47 That's an example expansion of the fib() function , but what is the formal definition? 02:24:53 sorry for my bad english 02:25:38 summation of pervious two numbers 02:25:52 So, then fib(0) = fib(-1) + fib(-2)? 02:26:00 That's the summation of the previous two numbers.... 02:26:14 starts value of fibonacci number 1 02:26:24 we accept fib(0) and fib(1) =1 02:26:35 so we have to put condition about that 02:27:06 because we dont want to calculate fib numbers with negative number thought 02:27:12 again sorry for my bad english 02:27:23 Right. 02:27:54 yes 02:28:05 so recursive program has termination condition 02:28:19 So, more formally, the definition of fib(x) = { 1 when x = 0 or x = 1, fib(x - 1) + fib(x - 2) otherwise}. 02:28:27 when the program notice termination condition. Program must exist from recursive call with result 02:28:36 yeah exactly 02:28:48 So then, how many base cases does that recursion have? 02:29:03 two 02:29:14 And how many base cases does your 'fib-iter' procedure have? 02:29:37 (if (<= n 0) 02:29:45 it is two i guess 02:29:50 less or equal to 0, 02:30:36 Alright, then what values does your base case handle? 02:30:44 It handles inputs of 0 or less, right? 02:31:07 yeah 02:31:19 And what values should your base cases handle? 02:31:45 actually 02:31:57 (if (<= n 1) 02:32:02 we can write this 02:32:14 stop 02:32:24 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:32:38 (if (< n 0) 02:32:43 you mean this arcfide 02:33:01 i mean handle with negartive number is enough 02:33:37 Your base cases should handle the same values that the base cases for the normal fib function handles. Also, I wrote the above definition of fib() assuming that the domain was nat -> nat, but you are assuming you can take negative numbers, so you need to change the definition of fib() to handle int -> int. 02:33:57 s/domain/signature. 02:34:15 int->int 02:34:22 what do you mean i dont understand 02:34:35 int is the set of integers. 02:34:49 yes 02:34:55 int -> int is the signature of a function whose domain is the set of integers, and whose range is the set of integers. 02:35:11 Or perhaps the more accurate term here is whose codomain is the set of integers. 02:35:22 yes you say input(intt) -> output(int) 02:35:37 The above fib() definition is only for the natural numbers. 02:35:49 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:36:04 yes integer doesnt have value 0 02:36:08 And you need to make sure that your base cases handle all the values that the fib() base cases handle. 02:36:20 rudybot: eval (integer? 0) 02:36:20 arcfide: your scheme sandbox is ready 02:36:21 arcfide: ; Value: #t 02:36:29 hmm 02:36:29 rudybot: (integer? -1) 02:36:30 arcfide: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 02:36:42 oh sorry 02:36:49 of course integer have 0 02:37:03 arcfide, i dont understand n is int m is int 02:37:13 mmc1 [n=mima@jarnikova.pescomnet.cz] has joined #scheme 02:37:26 What don't you understand? 02:37:43 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 02:37:53 you said domain must be int range must be int true 02:38:16 I said that this was how you were defining your procedure. 02:38:33 I was pointing out the my above definition doesn't work if fib : int -> int. It only works if fib: nat -> nat. 02:38:47 my function takes two parameter. input of fib-ter (n,m) -> output of fiib-iter (m) 02:38:56 ha 02:39:22 what is the difference in defining integer numbers and natural numbers in scheme 02:39:46 It changes how you handle them. 02:40:07 In other words, I never have to consider negative numbers in my definition, but you do, if you want to accept negative numbers as input. 02:40:26 i dont know for example 02:40:41 while i can writ fibonacci program in java 02:40:54 if numöber is negative i resutn either 1 or exception 02:41:04 Are you trying to write it iteratively, so that it uses a single call stack frame or are you trying to write it recursively? 02:41:26 So, what base cases do you have in Java? 02:41:43 i wrote like psuedo code here 02:42:33 if(x<0) throws new Exception elseif(x==1) return 1; else fib(n-1) + fib(n-2); 02:42:55 ocetinkaya: That won't work. 02:44:34 ocetinkaya: You need to look back at the definition of fib(), and then redefine fib() to have a signature int -> int (meaning you need to define how you handle negative numbers), and then you need to try to write the recursive version first ( (define (fib n) ---) ), and then you can begin to think about an iterative version that collects the result in an iteration variable. 02:44:37 i am trying 02:45:08 It helps if you think about what your base cases are. Right now you have the wrong base cases. 02:45:27 You should have a base case for each base case of the formal definition of fib(). 02:45:35 It should match the condition for that base case as well. 02:46:36 And I'm afraid that's all the help I can give you at the moment. Have a go at it again, and try to define a procedure just taking one argument first and do a natural translation of the formal fib() definition into code. 02:46:46 Your pseudo code above si close. 02:47:42 okey 02:47:53 thankl you btw i wrote recursive fib 02:48:11 (define (fib n m) 02:48:11 (if (<= n 0) 1 (+ (- n 1) (fib (- n 2))))) 02:49:29 -!- Checkie [i=12561@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:49:36 That's not going to work. 02:49:37 :-) 02:50:02 Try these values: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. 02:56:45 (define (fib n) 02:56:45 (if (<= n 0) 1 (+ (- n 1) (fib (- n 2))))) 02:56:50 this works i tried :d 02:56:58 -!- ocetinkaya [n=ocetinka@hopper.cs.bilgi.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:58:22 -!- cky [n=cky@h-166-166-115-130.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["BRB, reboot. :-P"] 02:58:23 *arcfide* sighes. 02:59:38 At least sockets are *working*. 03:00:16 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 03:06:38 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:06:45 cky [n=cky@h-166-166-115-130.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:22 copumpkin_ [n=copumpki@94.163.180.61] has joined #scheme 03:14:11 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:17:03 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@94.163.194.97] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:17:07 -!- copumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin 03:27:39 copumpkin_ [n=copumpki@94.163.180.93] has joined #scheme 03:46:07 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@94.163.180.61] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:46:07 -!- copumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin 03:49:09 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:55:09 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@user-387hdp5.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 04:03:22 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-154-149.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:59 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:08:02 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 04:16:12 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:19:10 jso [n=user@host-66-45-2-96.midco.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:14 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:24:35 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:25:51 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:26:28 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:35:16 -!- aputtu [n=aputsiaq@88.83.11.59] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:37:32 -!- jso [n=user@host-66-45-2-96.midco.net] has quit ["beer!"] 04:41:56 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 04:42:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:46:52 nutmegmagi [n=swalters@65.218.169.2] has joined #scheme 04:47:55 -!- cky [n=cky@h-166-166-115-130.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:48:10 cky [n=cky@h-166-166-119-202.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 04:51:03 cky_ [n=cky@h-166-166-119-202.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 04:51:30 -!- cky_ [n=cky@h-166-166-119-202.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:57:14 Fare [n=Fare@adsl-71-135-54-93.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:09:53 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:10:59 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:15:47 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:16:02 -!- mmc1 [n=mima@jarnikova.pescomnet.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:22:04 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:24:00 Checkie [i=21897@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 05:25:50 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@65.218.169.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:28:11 mmc1 [n=mima@jarnikova.pescomnet.cz] has joined #scheme 05:30:17 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:31:13 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 05:38:18 -!- davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:43:17 abbe [n=abbe@2001:470:f803:8000:0:0:0:1] has joined #scheme 05:43:45 -!- abbe [n=abbe@2001:470:f803:8000:0:0:0:1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:44:19 abbe [n=abbe@2001:470:f803:8000:0:0:0:1] has joined #scheme 05:45:08 shiva_ [n=shiva@vpn.bangalore.geodesic.com] has joined #scheme 05:47:39 Hi all, I want some good reference manual for "macros in scheme" . . . give me one good link 05:50:05 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 05:50:17 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 05:52:14 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 05:55:27 Hi all , I have one macro . And I also have one global variable. Now I want to substitute that global variable value with in the macro definition...how can I ? 05:55:53 -!- ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:56:00 ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:11:40 -!- mmc1 [n=mima@jarnikova.pescomnet.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:12:18 -!- Checkie [i=21897@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:12:33 Checkie [i=16547@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 06:19:56 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 06:22:20 shiva_, unquote? 06:26:59 -!- x2cast2 [n=alvaro@169.22.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:28:14 jonrafkind, : yeah I tried.... I want to place the global variable value within macro use : let me explain with some code 06:28:48 yea paste some stuff 06:29:27 jonrafkind, : (define-public-macro (menu-bind name . body) 06:29:28 (receive (opts real-body) (list-break body not-define-option?) 06:29:28 `(tm-define (,name) ,@opts ,(list 'quasiquote (menu-pre real-body))))) 06:29:58 -!- bzzbzz_ [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 06:30:00 jonrafkind, : that is macro-definition... 06:30:01 can you use lisppaste instead 06:30:03 lisppaste, url 06:30:03 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 06:30:35 bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 06:30:47 what scheme system are you using? 06:31:02 guile 06:35:16 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-246.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:36:58 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@user-387hdp5.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 06:37:08 Shiva pasted "Scheme code . . " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92710 06:37:36 http://paste.lisp.org/+1ZJA 06:38:32 jonrafkind, : I pasted... visit the site above mentioned 06:47:05 jonrafkind, : any clue ... ? 07:02:44 -!- shiva_ [n=shiva@vpn.bangalore.geodesic.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:03:05 shiva_ [n=shiva@vpn.bangalore.geodesic.com] has joined #scheme 07:03:51 jonrafkind, : Hi....do u have any clue to solve my problem ? if u have plz tell me 07:08:43 shiva_: It looks to me like you are trying to use a DEFMACRO style macro. This is a bad thing. 07:08:51 Doesn't Guile have any hygienic macro system? 07:10:47 don't overestimate guile 07:10:52 adu [n=ajr@pool-74-96-89-187.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:11:13 Fare: I thought that by now they would at least have that. 07:11:15 arcfide, : I have restriction to modify the source code only...so I cant use other style of macros 07:11:28 shiva_: Also, is ther no way to formulate your syntactic extension in 'syntax-rules'? 07:11:44 shiva_: Is this some sort of homework assignment? 07:12:16 arcfide, : yeah...assume like that only :) 07:12:17 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 07:12:20 (ice-9 syncase) module 07:12:34 looks like they do have syntax-case after all 07:13:20 arcfide: syntax-rules is powerful enough to do a whole lot of things. Not that you'd WANT to do all those things in syntax-rules, however, unless you're dan friedman 07:13:27 (or oleg k) 07:13:49 Fare: However, if you have to break out the procedural macros, going to 'define-macro' is certainly the wrong way. 07:14:03 shiva_: The best macro reference that I can point to is TSPL, 4th ed. 07:14:11 no, but if you already have a CL defmacro, define-macro is cheap 07:14:34 . 07:14:54 Fare: Cheap as in what? You mean if someone has already written the 'define-macro' version of what you want to do? 07:15:37 arcfide, : ohh.....its ok. But Is it impossible to solve the problem in this macro style ? 07:15:45 shiva_: I'm still not sure what your end goal is. 07:16:09 arcfide, : have u seen my paste ? 07:16:13 shiva_: I'm goig to go so far as to say that using 'define-macro' is a bug. On the other hand, if that's what you are stuck with, then that's what you are stuck with. 07:16:19 shiva_: I have, and I don't understand it. 07:16:30 arcfide, : oh.. 07:16:40 For example. I do not know what the procedure 'list-break' does. 07:17:13 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:17:45 I also don't know what that macro is supposed to do. 07:17:58 That is, I don't know what your end goal is. 07:18:06 I'm also suspicious of the need for a global. 07:19:28 Speaking on general principle, if one needs to have a singleton identifier type macro that expands into a constant, you use 'define-constant' which has a number of different implementations, but they are all fairly straightforward. That's a basic syntax around 'identifier-syntax' in macro systems that are either R6RS complaint or that support 'syntax-case' in their own right. 07:22:29 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:37:42 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 07:42:44 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:43:03 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:55:37 -!- foof [n=user@FL1-118-110-60-113.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:02:48 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:09:45 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 08:10:09 Moin moin! 08:13:33 Arctic Repository 1.2, released. :-) Windows sockets, bingo. 08:13:47 08:15:37 Gopher? There are people who still use that? 08:15:58 Yes. 08:16:04 Don't you? 08:16:10 -!- Fare [n=Fare@adsl-71-135-54-93.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:16:16 Silly question. 08:17:22 -!- shiva_ [n=shiva@vpn.bangalore.geodesic.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:32:46 brandelune [n=suzume@pl826.nas981.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:37:36 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 08:47:07 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 08:56:04 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:09 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-137.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has left #scheme 09:18:38 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-137.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 09:18:48 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-137.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has left #scheme 09:22:59 -!- ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:32:03 ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 09:45:34 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:45:53 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 09:46:19 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:00:02 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 10:00:45 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:02:08 schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 10:04:22 mmc [n=mima@jarnikova.pescomnet.cz] has joined #scheme 10:15:09 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-209-30-50-170.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 10:21:18 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31:40 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:20 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:36:40 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:37:00 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:41:46 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:44:07 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:45:18 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:47:13 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 10:51:44 masm [n=masm@bl7-196-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:05:45 -!- adzuci_ [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:07:04 -!- adu [n=ajr@pool-74-96-89-187.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 11:09:43 WuJiang [n=wujiang@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:09:54 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:10:21 adzuci [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:13:32 -!- abbe [n=abbe@2001:470:f803:8000:0:0:0:1] has quit [] 11:14:56 foof [n=user@FL1-118-110-60-113.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 11:16:09 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 11:19:08 m811 [n=user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 11:20:24 -!- WuJiang_ [n=wujiang@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:22:38 slilo [n=user@host-95-189-136-182.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has joined #scheme 11:28:16 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@94.163.180.93] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:28:51 hi all! does anybody here use Emacs with PLT Scheme? 11:46:10 -!- slilo [n=user@host-95-189-136-182.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:53:27 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:53:43 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:09:28 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:09:57 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:12:32 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:55 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:14:17 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:14:20 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:18:04 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 12:26:43 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-067-190-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 13:01:47 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 13:07:02 timj [n=timj@e176213029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 13:08:42 Terminus [n=justin@124.6.152.90] has joined #scheme 13:09:17 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:21 -!- mmc [n=mima@jarnikova.pescomnet.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:30:28 hmmm... mit-scheme or guile? 13:33:15 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 13:40:33 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-196-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:42:34 rotty_web [i=3e2fbc66@gateway/web/freenode/x-ydjozogarssderww] has joined #scheme 13:43:22 Terminus: for what purpose? 13:55:15 masm [n=masm@bl5-104-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 13:55:47 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057865.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:57:13 -!- rotty_web [i=3e2fbc66@gateway/web/freenode/x-ydjozogarssderww] has quit ["Page closed"] 14:05:18 -!- Terminus [n=justin@124.6.152.90] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:11:02 -!- bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:29:48 -!- partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:51 *foof* is excited to approach time 0 14:31:53 copumpkin [n=copumpki@94.162.91.219] has joined #scheme 14:35:37 shortsightedsid [n=shortsig@122.172.147.124] has joined #scheme 14:41:35 x2cast21 [n=alvaro@196.22.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 14:44:53 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 15:06:02 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-168-52.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:19:14 davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:25:59 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-168-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:27:47 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-168-52.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:28:26 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@94.162.91.219] has quit [] 15:37:43 drogue [n=drogue@cpe-66-65-126-81.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:58:06 mornfall_ [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 15:58:06 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:10:03 -!- mornfall_ is now known as mornfall 16:10:15 mmc [n=mima@jarnikova.pescomnet.cz] has joined #scheme 16:29:29 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl826.nas981.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 16:35:49 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-183-110.net.novis.pt] has left #scheme 16:42:11 partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has joined #scheme 16:43:48 Terminus [n=justin@112.200.177.148] has joined #scheme 16:46:11 cky_ [n=cky@h-166-166-124-165.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 16:46:30 -!- cky [n=cky@h-166-166-119-202.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:46:38 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 16:49:10 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-78.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:50:41 -!- partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51:55 partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has joined #scheme 17:01:53 rotty: whoops... sorry. just got to read your message. just for learning scheme. 17:02:06 can you have a plt package without version numbers? 17:03:27 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-168-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Success] 17:03:46 or more specifically, is it possible to install a (local) .plt package file when you don't know its version numbers? 17:11:49 -!- shortsightedsid [n=shortsig@122.172.147.124] has quit [] 17:11:58 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:14:51 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:17:42 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-147-159.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:22:17 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 17:25:38 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 17:29:22 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:34 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has joined #scheme 17:30:52 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-78.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:35:43 -!- Terminus [n=justin@112.200.177.148] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:09 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@user-387hdp5.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 17:43:54 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:51:12 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:59:55 -!- zeroish [n=zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:31 -!- schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:04:48 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:05:06 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-78.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:05:27 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-137.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:37 bytecolor [n=user@32.158.235.52] has joined #scheme 18:10:12 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Client Quit"] 18:18:31 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-147-159.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:30 -!- JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-067-190-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 18:19:54 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-207-98.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:20:39 TR2N [i=email@89.180.129.157] has joined #scheme 18:21:13 hey...how do you send a message through the bot ? I've found a stupid bug on MIT Scheme 18:22:21 you could just use memoserv 18:22:25 (or just mention it here) 18:22:35 but I think you say 'rudybot: tell ' 18:23:03 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:23:24 Ah that's it. Thanks elly ! :) 18:23:53 What's the bug? 18:25:22 (modulo 1 0) just traps 18:25:28 kind of tragic 18:25:35 -!- Checkie [i=16547@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:39 Lost part of some code I was testing 18:27:40 Hrm. 18:27:48 Are you using the latest CVS? 18:28:47 So, who's up for porting my sockets library to their favorite Scheme? :-) I'm curious about whether things are comprehensible to non-mes. 18:29:12 I'm using the last public version on the site. Probably not the lastest CVS version. 18:31:28 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 18:34:53 rudybot: tell Riastradh Hello Riastradh. I'm using MIT Scheme Snapshot 20090107 and it just raised a trap exception when I did (modulo 1 0). 18:34:53 TR2N: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 18:35:02 rudybot: help 18:35:02 TR2N: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 18:35:23 rudybot: later "tell" Riastradh Hello Riastradh. I'm using MIT Scheme Snapshot 20090107 and it just raised a trap exception when I did (modulo 1 0). 18:35:23 TR2N: expecting: later "tell" ... 18:37:29 rudybot: help later 18:37:29 TR2N: later "tell" ...: leave a message for someone 18:38:24 rudybot: later tell Riastradh Hello Riastradh. I'm using MIT Scheme Snapshot 20090107 and it just raised a trap exception when I did (modulo 1 0). 18:38:24 minion: memo for Riastradh: TR2N told me to tell you: Hello Riastradh. I'm using MIT Scheme Snapshot 20090107 and it just raised a trap exception when I did (modulo 1 0). 18:38:24 Remembered. I'll tell Riastradh when he/she/it next speaks. 18:43:21 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-207-98.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:44:48 oh remainder and quotient also trap 18:44:52 :S 18:45:22 rudybot: later tell Riastradh Hmm... (quotient 1 0) and (remainder 1 0) also trap. 18:45:22 minion: memo for Riastradh: TR2N told me to tell you: Hmm... (quotient 1 0) and (remainder 1 0) also trap. 18:45:22 Remembered. I'll tell Riastradh when he/she/it next speaks. 18:46:47 TR2N: This isn't just a raised exception, this is something else? 18:47:06 Normally, Scheme systems signal an error or exception with those calls. 18:59:40 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-33-184.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:59:54 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["off"] 19:00:42 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 19:00:46 X-Scale [i=email@89-180-129-157.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 19:03:44 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.129.157] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:03:49 -!- X-Scale is now known as TR2N 19:04:19 arcfide: In this case it traps, opens a trap dialog, tries to recover and looses all my code. 19:04:36 It's the 1st time it happens to me in MIT Scheme. 19:04:49 It doesn't go through the normal error process. 19:06:08 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 19:06:39 "Scheme appears to have become catatonic. OK to kill it?" 19:07:18 "Scheme cannot find the state necessary to continue" 19:13:25 Hum. 19:13:27 That's strange. 19:13:59 -!- sizur_ is now known as sizur 19:17:50 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:50 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:20:13 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 61 (Connection refused)] 19:21:33 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:23:12 -!- davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:23:24 -!- awarrington [n=quassel@officebv.conductor.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:24:10 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-242-135.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 19:25:40 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:29:57 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 19:30:23 Terminus [n=justin@112.200.177.148] has joined #scheme 19:33:39 copumpkin [n=copumpki@94.162.74.186] has joined #scheme 19:34:32 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:53 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:35:08 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-129-157.net.novis.pt] has left #scheme 19:37:30 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:37:38 alaricsp [n=alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 19:43:28 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:06 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Client Quit"] 19:49:18 How can i know if some identifier syntax is is defined as syntax (i.e. is a macro)? 20:17:55 -!- Terminus [n=justin@112.200.177.148] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:20 masm: I don't think there is a standard way to do this. Why do you need to do this? 20:29:28 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 20:32:04 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:34:55 masm: if you're desperate, you can EVAL the symbol of the same name and then return #f with an exception handler installed that returns #t if the exception is of the appropriate type (e.g. exn:fail:syntax in plt scheme) 20:35:19 but you're almost certainly on the wrong track if you need to do something like that 20:44:45 saint_cypher [n=saint_cy@24-247-74-245.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:54:42 Leonidas: how's your sbank installation attempt going? 20:56:08 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.158.235.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:42 arcfide: I'm on PLT. I'm using the fifth element of the list returned by identifier-binding. When expanding a macro, I need to know if an identifier is a syntax definition so that i can use syntax-local-value only on those, or I get an error. 21:05:58 johnnowak: I would never do that. :) 21:06:16 whew 21:09:15 -!- makmanalp [n=legato@80.76.201.55] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:11:47 visof [n=visof@41.238.235.194] has joined #scheme 21:13:20 makmanalp [n=legato@80.76.201.55] has joined #scheme 21:19:09 schmir [n=schmir@p54A93B3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:20:02 elderK [n=zk@125-238-255-127.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 21:26:06 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:22 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:28:47 peter_12 [n=peter_12@189.200.14.119] has joined #scheme 21:31:00 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@189.200.14.119] has quit [Client Quit] 21:37:44 Hey guys! 21:37:58 I was wondering if any kind souls here, have acceess to ACM? 21:38:10 and would mayhap be willing to send me W.Clinger's article on Explicit Renaming macros. 21:38:11 :) 21:38:29 That, or perhaps a couple pointers (other than Google), on where I could learn more about these Explicit-renaming macros. 21:38:48 snorble [n=none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 21:39:59 elderK: one moment 21:40:39 :) Thank you elly 21:41:01 "Hygenic Macros Through Explicit Renaming", William Clinger, 1991? 21:41:39 Yup, that's the one. 21:42:16 elderK: The various Scheme implementations sometimes reference papers on their Macro systems. Usually they will each have a comparison of their macro system to other systems. 21:42:35 Thanks, arcfide 21:42:56 elderK: If you run out of resources related directly to ER Macros, you can look at the papers written about Syntactic Closures and 'syntax-case' macros, which will also have a blurb or so about ER in there. 21:43:47 :) 21:43:54 I've heard only a little about Syntactic-Closures. 21:44:14 I'll be sure to search for informationon that, too. 21:44:22 btw, arcfide man, how was your christmas? :) 21:45:21 elderK: It was pretty good. I finally finished my port of Sockets to Windows, and with surprisingly successful results given the potential hurdles. I managed to release 1.2 of my Arctic Repository with the new sockets code in it. 21:45:32 Oh wait, you wanted to know about my real life? What real life? 21:45:36 heh 21:45:42 No, I did have a good Christmas with lots of classic food and family. 21:45:43 ;) who said digital life wasn't rela? 21:45:44 :) 21:46:00 Saw the Avatar movie, which was...interesting. 21:46:02 I'm glad to hear that, arcfide. 21:46:16 :D Man, all my friends have been highly recommending Avatar. 21:46:22 Is it interesting good? 21:46:34 REcently saw "District 9 21:46:51 That was an interesting movie too. The statement it makes about humanity... isn't quite... so bright. 21:47:27 I've never seen a movie that did these two things so well: Integrate remarkable CG and Live action, and manage to hit every cliche in the movie handbook, plot and all. 21:47:36 statements about humanity are too important to be left to art students 21:47:57 Hey there, Adamant. 21:48:14 hi 21:48:16 :D I don't think I've ever seen a bad Jame's Cameron movie before. 21:48:24 Titanic 21:48:31 Okay, I'm proven wrong. 21:48:33 :) 21:48:33 :P 21:48:40 Avatar is no exception to the statement on humanity. It's about as blatantly propaganda as you can get, You'd have to go to a "Native American Power Revival" to get more blatant. 21:48:42 I'm flying Jack! I'm flyyyinggggg. 21:48:42 :P 21:48:45 *elderK* flails 21:49:01 arcfide: yeah one of my friends called it "Dances With Smurfs" 21:49:14 The smurfs were less politically correct. 21:49:23 Still, does hte movie make an interesting point? 21:49:33 Or is it te typical "humans are greedy, corporations are evil" thing? 21:49:34 No. 21:49:52 I dunno man, there were a whole lot of dude smurfs and only one girl running around the place 21:50:21 i think that might put on the LGBT spectrum and add to the PC value 21:50:39 also they were blue 21:50:40 The tagline might as well be, "White man must die, we all must become the [insert your country's indiginous race, unless you're English, in which case insert the Spanish] and condemn our old selves. 21:51:01 that's extra PC points 21:51:17 arcfide: good art is hard, cliches are easy 21:51:30 Well, at least the visuals are amazing. 21:51:34 no matter what your affliatin 21:51:48 :) well, as long as it's enjoyable. 21:51:48 :D 21:51:49 :P 21:52:12 arcfide: basically the only reason I would see it is the Jazz Singer angle 21:52:25 at this point, at a $5 morning showing 21:53:07 If you've ever read that little book that some English teachers are fond of that has a white man basically saying how all the whites should just shoot themselves because we are so evil and the blacks need to have jobs...yeah, kinda like that. 21:53:22 uh 21:53:42 never seen that one 21:53:43 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:53:49 Adamant: It's an interesting read. :-) 21:53:59 With no literary value whatsoever. 21:54:41 He doesn't come right out and say that the whites should all die, but that's only because they should be spending the rest of their remaining evil lives atoning for the sins of all whites by serving the blacks. 21:54:55 arcfide: the closest thing I've seen to what are you are saying is some nonsense from some poli sci and literary types in a Ivy League school about "decontructing whiteness" or some junk 21:55:31 But anyways, I'll stop that rambling now. :-) 21:55:41 I'm due to watch Sherlock Holmes next. 21:55:47 :D YUS! 21:55:51 :P Go Holmes, go! 22:00:49 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:02:32 Hm, ER maacros are interesting. 22:02:45 Just wonder how much implementation-support is needed to use them. 22:05:28 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 22:07:33 elderK: You're not thinking about using them, are you? 22:07:37 :-) 22:07:53 I'm not sure yet :) 22:08:03 What concerns me about ER type macros, is... like. 22:08:06 elderK: Have you used any procedural macro system? 22:08:18 No, but I've read a lot on CL macros and why they are evil? 22:08:23 Or has your only experience with Macros been 'syntax-case?' 22:08:26 I'm open to any insights though, I'm keen to learn. 22:08:29 syntax-rules. 22:08:49 elderK: This is just personal preference, but I highly recommend 'syntax-case'. 22:09:31 :) Don't worry man, I'll check out syncase in detail too :) 22:09:32 I also don't know if this matters to you, but it is also the only macro system that exists in a Revised Report, namely, R6RS. 22:09:38 I'm really just expanding my knowlege more than anything :) 22:10:15 The reason that I recommend 'syntax-case' is because it automatically enforces hygiene, and it is easy to move from syntax-rules to syntax-case whenever you realize that syntax-rules isn't enough during the macro writing stage. 22:10:46 Yes, there is no problem with that. :-) 22:11:17 I believe that most of the other macro system make you go through hoops to get hygiene, when hygienic macros should be the default. 22:11:56 Well, aye, I support hygiene, but I also support letting the developer break hygiene whenneeded. 22:12:16 elderK: Of course, that's what SC, ER, and syntax-case do. 22:13:01 If you need to break hygiene,then syntax-case lets you do so without trouble, but it makes it explicitly clear that you are doing so in the code. 22:15:07 -!- visof [n=visof@41.238.235.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:10 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 22:41:33 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:02 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-33-184.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:58:59 So, who wants to take a shot at porting my sockets library to another Scheme? :-) 22:59:03 *arcfide* looks around. 22:59:49 Actually, what Scheme implementations implement networking out fo the box right now? I've got MIT Scheme, SCSH, PLT, . . . Chicken, . . . .? 23:07:41 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 23:07:56 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A93B3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:12:02 arcfide, Guile 23:12:57 arcfide, Ikarus has some support, butit's mostly just a tcp sockets interface. 23:17:16 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-242-135.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:18:35 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-187.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:30:18 dsmith: That's write Guile has a BSD sockets style interface. 23:30:37 I think Ikarus follows the examples of the other Scheme implementations, right? 23:30:45 That is, a high-level specialized interface to TCP. 23:31:40 brandelune [n=suzume@pl826.nas981.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:33:52 Gauche also has a BSD sockets style interface. 23:38:02 I'd be surprised if gambit didn't 23:41:36 davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:52 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 61 (Connection refused)] 23:46:20 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057865.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:46:55 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 23:50:02 sjamaan: I don't see any networking support in Gambit. 23:51:13 arcfide: http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~gambit/doc/gambit-c.html#Network-devices 23:53:49 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:55:15 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@user-387hdp5.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 23:56:32 Ah, there it is. 23:56:34 Talk about hard to find. 23:57:32 Hrm, that's definitely a higher-level client/server interface and not a general sockets interface.