00:13:38 arcfide: samth ok thanks 00:18:09 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055954.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:24:41 -!- nothingHappens [n=nothingh@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:31 nothingHappens [n=nothingh@173-27-153-37.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 00:31:39 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:47:54 klutometis, segoe: what arcfide said -- `syntax-rules' is too often taken as a synonym of "hygienic macro system", which is false. `syntax-rules' happens to be a popular easy-to-use-but-extremely-limited macro-constructing tool, which enforces hygiene. 00:48:03 jonrafkind: and *you* should know that! 00:48:43 wait, i was complaining that you are cryptic 00:49:28 -!- flonklebonkle [n=nobody@p5B03B4F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:49:29 I'm cryptic? 00:49:42 yes sometimes 00:49:54 s/ / not /, s/\?$/!/. 00:50:16 nothing cryptic about that! Pure simple sed 00:50:19 :-p 00:51:38 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:53:26 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:04 masm [n=masm@bl9-115-164.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:58:09 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:43 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 01:09:45 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:10:08 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:13:15 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 01:33:44 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34:19 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 01:35:08 -!- masm [n=masm@bl9-115-164.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:39:24 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:54 kniu [n=kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:42:08 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:43:09 splork [n=ben@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:09 SharkBrain [n=gerard@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 01:51:43 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 01:55:30 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-iatwvjwsvcqudtfo] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:56:31 underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:02:31 -!- REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:04:00 r2q2 [n=user@acad24650.wireless.uic.edu] has joined #scheme 02:04:12 any plters around? 02:12:21 nobody here but us zombie processes. 02:12:31 *offby1* pelts r2q2 with filth 02:12:47 I use it 02:14:21 r2q2, yup 02:23:51 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:25 Runar [n=me@67-198-47-98.ip.grandenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 02:26:45 -!- Runar [n=me@67-198-47-98.ip.grandenetworks.net] has left #scheme 02:27:29 stefstefstef [n=chatzill@92.55.82.197] has joined #scheme 02:27:52 bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 02:30:36 flonklebonkle [n=nobody@p5B03A18E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 02:41:07 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:44:12 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 02:47:03 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 02:50:18 -!- segoe [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-oobishxzhsphfjyp] has quit ["Page closed"] 02:55:34 *offby1* hurls his dentures at mbishop, just to be on the safe side 03:10:23 i need recomendations on cool webblogs for programming languages in general thanks :) 03:14:57 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:15:36 -!- r2q2 [n=user@acad24650.wireless.uic.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:17:21 stefstefstef: http://gist.github.com/247850 03:21:55 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 03:27:05 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:28:20 -!- splork [n=ben@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 03:37:06 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:49:41 -!- eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:50:30 stefstefstef: this is where all the irc trolls hang out: programming.reddit.com 03:51:57 redcaptain [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 03:53:04 tjaway [n=timj@e176193205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:53:49 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176210012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:56:32 -!- stefstefstef [n=chatzill@92.55.82.197] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009033100]"] 03:57:28 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:57:52 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@99.186.238.229] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?"] 04:07:25 splork [n=ben@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 04:13:04 wgsilkie [i=wgsilkie@free-shell.eu] has joined #scheme 04:14:36 What's the difference between (4 2) and (4 . 2)? 04:15:25 the first is (cons 4 (cons 2 '()) the second is (cons 4 2) 04:15:46 or to put it another way the first is a proper list and the second is just a pair 04:17:04 helpful? 04:19:44 rudybot: eval (car (cons 4 2)) 04:19:45 *offby1: ; Value: 4 04:19:51 rudybot: eval (car '(4 2)) 04:19:51 *offby1: ; Value: 4 04:19:54 rudybot: eval (cdr '(4 2)) 04:19:54 *offby1: ; Value: (2) 04:19:59 rudybot: eval (cdr (cons 4 2)) 04:19:59 *offby1: ; Value: 2 04:20:02 see the diff? 04:24:53 -!- SharkBrain [n=gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit ["leaving"] 04:25:46 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:32:38 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:36:30 Oh darn! He left. 04:36:59 OK, so when do you want a pair, instead of a list? 04:37:19 samth_ [n=samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:39:46 heh 04:39:58 that's like asking "when do you want a milkshake instead of a burger". 04:40:16 If you just want to package two pieces of data up into one convenient thing, then it doesn't much matter. 04:40:30 But lots of functions want one or the other, so naturally if you're calling them, you gotta give 'em what they want 04:41:50 strictly speaking, all lists _are_ pairs 04:41:56 but some pairs aren't lists. 04:42:22 -!- foof` is now known as foof 04:42:27 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 04:44:18 offby1: Ah, I suspected that was the case. 04:44:51 Thanks! :) 04:45:23 actually if you just want to package two pieces of data up, "structs" might be better, since then you can give the pieces names that are more meaningful than "car" and "cdr". But structs are _slightly_ advanced 04:45:35 ... and as far as I know, not-quite-standard 04:46:18 Are Bert & Ernie a pair or a list? 04:46:34 not all lists are pairs 04:47:56 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@88-211.res.pomona.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:48:25 foof: I've long suspected they're a couple 04:48:43 bokr: true, the empty list isn't a pair. 04:48:49 rudybot: eval (pair? ' ()) 04:48:49 *offby1: ; Value: #f 04:48:55 rudybot: eval (pair? (list)) 04:48:55 *offby1: ; Value: #f 04:48:58 rudybot: eval (pair? (list 1 2 3)) 04:48:58 *offby1: ; Value: #t 05:12:38 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:14:05 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-136-80.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:15:07 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:20:05 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:20:11 -!- Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-128-210.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:39:05 -!- Armagedd1n00 is now known as Armageddon00 05:40:33 incubot: since transitioning to beethoven from bach, the extreme laconism that was this decade's companion has become somewhat alien to me 05:40:36 i'm transitioning to a new project written in java; and i might spend a couple weeks rewriting the thing in scheme 05:41:01 how feat 05:42:48 incubot: bowdlerized 05:42:56 nice 05:43:43 did I break it? Huh? 05:43:48 -!- samth_ [n=samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:43:50 *offby1* hops excitedly from foot to foot 05:47:17 offby1: partly because of that superior seattle coffee? 05:49:05 he's kinda old, and little things start to mean a lot at that age 05:57:41 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:07:20 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:11:38 -!- ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 06:12:07 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-201-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:17:03 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 06:26:05 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [No route to host] 06:41:09 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-136-80.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:44:47 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.194.245] has joined #scheme 06:49:18 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:06:05 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:06:14 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 07:06:26 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:13:48 reid02 [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 07:16:50 -!- reid02 [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:17:06 reid02 [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 07:32:43 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 07:35:17 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:36:09 -!- Penth_ [n=rachel@pool-173-59-84-11.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:20 Penth_ [n=rachel@pool-98-114-161-126.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:45:12 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 07:54:54 synx: The log file doesn't show any errors. 07:55:55 eli: well, thanks for checking. 07:56:13 ASau` [n=user@77.246.231.14] has joined #scheme 07:56:39 Can you try it again now, I restarted it just in case. 07:57:19 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:57:42 Also, your anonymizing network thing (forgot the name) might make things more fragile, no? 07:57:56 It would, if I was using it. 07:58:11 subversion sure is a piece of ....work. 07:58:55 It disables all signals, with no handlers for cleaning up anything, then says while (! done) { stuff_with_side_effects(); } 07:59:09 Anyway, did you try it again now? 07:59:37 Yeah. 07:59:51 And did it fail? 08:00:03 Not yet. 08:00:16 I can use gdb to get into the loop there, and jump to the point where it leaves the loop. Otherwise the program can only be hard killed, ruining the state of the repository. 08:00:55 But using gdb, I can cause svn to exit without ruining my repository, and then svn up again after doing so. 08:01:00 So I should be able to get it, regardless... 08:01:25 The question is whether there is some actual problem on the server. 08:01:44 And at least on the current log file, I don't see anything suspicious. 08:01:55 s/log file/error log/ 08:01:55 it's odd because I've had no problems with other SVN servers. There was a mailing list post about it a while ago that never got resolved... 08:02:35 FWIW, we're not running the latest svn -- we're on 1.5.5 08:02:59 I need to upgrade the machine, but that requires time. 08:03:14 Okay my svn has frozen again. 08:03:35 ColonelJ [n=cipherja@zone2.robinson.cam.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 08:03:43 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:04:07 Just now? 08:04:14 Yes. 08:04:19 It still has 3 connections open to your server. 08:04:23 At 03:02:29 (EST)? 08:04:46 -!- Penth_ [n=rachel@pool-98-114-161-126.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:04:50 There is an error entry, actually, 08:04:52 it says: 08:04:58 Provider encountered an error while streaming a REPORT response. [500, #0] 08:05:08 A failure occurred while driving the update report editor [500, #190004] 08:05:10 Penth_ [n=rachel@pool-173-59-84-139.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:06:11 hm... 08:06:15 http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#tiger-apr-0.9.6 08:06:37 I've seen this happen a few times, and the best link I could find that is relevant is: 08:06:42 [yes, that] 08:06:46 https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=34332 08:06:52 Hi, yesterday I came up with a new language called Starpial. Wondering if you schemers would care to have a look at a quine I made in it... http://codepad.org/aJCcZGwe. Questions welcome! 08:07:07 yeah, so more like an update of libapr is needed 08:07:10 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 08:07:29 The thing is that our libapr version is definitely well after 0.9.6 08:07:35 all that stuff is rather strongly coupled anyway. 08:08:02 Also here's a factorial function: (x 0 >), (x 1 - factorial), 1 ?: #x !factorial 08:08:07 huh? how very odd then... and subversion has no sneaky hidden ancient libapr to work with? 08:08:11 And besides, the link (the tigris.org link) talks about running apache on osx. 08:08:50 ColonelJ: looks about as fun as brainfuck. 08:09:53 heh oh dear 08:10:34 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:11:34 It's meant to be considerably more useful though 08:11:54 ColonelJ: by all means, do explain. 08:12:25 It looks vaguely Haskell-y, but I can't decipher it. 08:12:42 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:13:08 Yeah, basically the language operates as a stack machine, using reverse polish notation 08:13:32 oh, of course. The parentheses had me confused. 08:13:50 in fact all the ( ), WITH the comma, are only there for readability 08:13:59 (and assertions) 08:14:12 Yeah your factorial makes total sense now. 08:15:10 when you write a variable it starts off as free 08:15:36 Though how you defer evaluation until factorial has been defined, I'm not sure... 08:16:04 any expressions with free variables aren't evaluated in the language 08:16:10 until the variable is bound 08:16:20 there are a number of ways to bind them 08:16:32 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:16:33 # binds as a parameter to that expression 08:16:56 oh, that's an interesting way to go about it... 08:16:56 ! binds as an identifier 08:17:13 it only binds for expressions that precede the definition 08:17:32 ( ) are used for scoping 08:17:43 and basically they create a new stack inside a stack in which to do work 08:17:54 you can also pass these around as values 08:18:01 well.. objects 08:18:14 and you can use them as stacks/arrays etc 08:18:17 stack of stacks, yep. useful for procedures that take any number of values. 08:18:57 anyway, it depends on type inference for typing, not entirely sure if it will work 08:20:09 The ' operator just places everything on that stack to the stack above 08:20:26 Strings are just stacks full of characters 08:21:09 dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.91.146] has joined #scheme 08:22:38 concatenative languages have the advantage that they're the only sorts of languages I know with an even simpler syntax than lisp. 08:27:23 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:32:08 Oh a point I did make on what you said before about evaluation... It will actually evaluate parts of the function if it knows all the values, because the result is always going to be the same, and as such the function gets simplified before it is used in any applications. 08:41:25 (x 1 + /x >increment x 1 - /x >decrement 0 $x) !counter 08:42:14 those ( ) shouldn't be there, or should have a comma after them 08:42:52 wait no scratch that, they're meant to be there 08:43:58 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #scheme 08:44:23 that only defines an object not a class, haven't figure a way to do that yet 08:44:38 hm... 08:45:15 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 08:46:16 To use the object you can either do "counter .increment" or have " anyway breakfast 08:55:13 borism_ [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 08:57:14 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:57:56 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 08:58:47 -!- Penth_ [n=rachel@pool-173-59-84-139.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:59:34 -!- redcaptain [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:01:41 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-234-234-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:13 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:20:29 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:48:50 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 09:52:13 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:53:16 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:01:07 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:01:28 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:19:59 schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 10:21:18 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:22:12 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:26:08 -!- chops [n=nope@202.3.37.233] has quit [] 10:31:48 -!- Jafet is now known as aefjt 10:31:55 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:32:40 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:33:18 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:41:38 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 10:43:02 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:53:43 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:55:02 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:55:13 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 10:55:47 -!- underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [] 11:03:05 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 11:05:29 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:06:20 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 11:09:34 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:11:22 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-172-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 11:11:44 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 11:13:13 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:15:11 masm [n=masm@bl9-115-164.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:23:09 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 11:32:40 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 11:36:02 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-172-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:37:54 sladegen_ [n=nemo@78.8.136.19] has joined #scheme 11:37:54 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:43:22 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:50:04 -!- aefjt [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:50:56 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- reid02 [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- elly [n=pyxystyx@209.9.227.50] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-189-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- ASau [n=user@host186-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- tizoc [n=user@li25-112.members.linode.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- qeb`away [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- tmitt [i=seg@wizardly.us] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- tabe``` [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- klutometis [i=klutomet@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- linas [n=linas@99.153.64.179] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:01 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:01 -!- zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:01 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:01 -!- hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:01 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:01 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:02 -!- incwolf [n=phil@cpe-76-172-228-179.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:02 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- kencausey [n=ken@67.15.6.88] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- Arelius` [n=user@64.174.9.113] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- C-Keen [i=ckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- roderic [n=user@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- GodsHawk [n=Nathan@unaffiliated/nathan/x-8754142] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:03 -!- m811 [n=user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:51:47 base3 [n=base3@host81-141-232-14.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:09 tmitt [i=seg@wizardly.us] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 xwl [n=user@123.115.126.113] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 reid02 [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 elly [n=pyxystyx@209.9.227.50] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-189-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 ASau [n=user@host186-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 tizoc [n=user@li25-112.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 klutometis [i=klutomet@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 qeb`away [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 tabe``` [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 linas [n=linas@99.153.64.179] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 m811 [n=user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 Arelius` [n=user@64.174.9.113] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 kencausey [n=ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 roderic [n=user@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 incwolf [n=phil@cpe-76-172-228-179.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 C-Keen [i=ckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 11:52:39 tabe```` [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has joined #scheme 11:52:45 ski__ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 11:52:50 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- xwl [n=user@123.115.126.113] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- qeb`away [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- reid02 [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- elly [n=pyxystyx@209.9.227.50] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- tizoc [n=user@li25-112.members.linode.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- linas [n=linas@99.153.64.179] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- ASau [n=user@host186-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-189-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- klutometis [i=klutomet@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- tabe``` [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:53 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 11:52:54 -!- base3 [n=base3@host81-141-232-14.wlms-broadband.com] has left #scheme 11:52:55 elly [n=pyxystyx@fenrir.mimisbrunnr.net] has joined #scheme 11:52:59 xwl [n=user@123.115.126.113] has joined #scheme 11:53:03 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-189-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 11:53:04 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #scheme 11:53:42 reid02 [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:53:46 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 11:53:55 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 11:54:26 klutometis [i=klutomet@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 ASau [n=user@host186-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 tizoc [n=user@li25-112.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 linas [n=linas@99.153.64.179] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 tabe``` [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:55:05 hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:55:21 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:55:31 -!- tizoc [n=user@li25-112.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:55:33 -!- tabe``` [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:33 -!- klutometis is now known as Guest98690 11:58:19 tizoc [n=user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 12:00:18 ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 12:05:40 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 12:05:57 tonyg [n=tonyg@host238.lshift.net] has joined #scheme 12:08:31 Hi. Does this channel have searchable logs? I know about plaintext/sexp logs, but does anyone index them for searchability? 12:10:42 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit ["Quitting"] 12:11:21 Mr-Cat: Doesn't googling site:http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/scheme/ do the trick? 12:11:44 mario-goulart: Thanks, I'll try 12:12:24 Seems to work, thanks 12:12:31 you're welcome 12:14:02 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #scheme 12:20:59 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:21:48 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:35:31 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:36:24 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 12:45:39 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:46:46 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:49:34 -!- ski__ is now known as ski_ 12:56:59 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:57:34 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:59:40 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 13:07:21 -!- splork [n=ben@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 13:07:39 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:22:54 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:24:52 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:34:48 wingo [n=wingo@1.Red-79-151-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:35:24 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 13:40:35 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 13:44:09 -!- sladegen_ [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:54 samth_ [n=samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:51:17 -!- ASau is now known as ASau_ 13:54:16 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 13:56:27 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 14:04:06 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 14:05:56 -!- schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:07:18 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:09:25 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:09:52 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:10:36 perdix [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:12:39 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:58 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:18:02 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 14:20:48 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-68-160-40-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:23:24 Penth [n=rachel@pool-98-114-159-131.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:36:21 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:36:48 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-128-210.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 14:39:56 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:41:25 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:44:50 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:46:14 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 14:47:02 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:48:02 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:50:37 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 14:52:01 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:52:51 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 14:57:09 -!- xwl [n=user@123.115.126.113] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:57:19 xwl [n=user@123.115.126.113] has joined #scheme 15:12:26 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:17:19 -!- samth_ [n=samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:18:59 -!- Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:19:06 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 15:19:16 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:22:19 Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 15:25:06 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:46:50 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [] 15:47:16 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:48:57 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:06 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 15:56:03 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.14] has quit ["off"] 15:56:51 -!- m811 [n=user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:58:05 samth_ [n=samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:18 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:33 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:58:36 -!- samth_ is now known as samth 15:58:48 samth_ [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:02:00 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:03:19 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:25:19 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 16:25:34 ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-30.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has joined #scheme 16:27:23 -!- xwl [n=user@123.115.126.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:28 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 16:29:08 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:30:34 -!- bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:30:51 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:31:09 Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 16:31:45 So what are the use cases for proper tail calling? So far I have: tail recursion proper, state machines, CPS (as a programming technique, not an implementation technique). 16:32:27 CPS is a, erm, fairly broad use case 16:32:40 by tail recursion proper you mean looping in particular? 16:32:56 `Looping in particular'? I'd say `looping in general'... 16:33:02 Yes. Tail recursion with the emphasis on recursion. 16:34:07 IOW, what arguments would you use to convince a skeptic who says "I see why it's worth implementing tail recursion as an optimization, but not why the programmer would want to count on its availability in general." 16:34:49 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 16:34:55 It enables the programmer to generally compose procedural control structures without increasing the asymptotic space usage of programs. 16:35:30 Well, but only if he is vewy vewy careful. 16:36:13 Well, scheme forces the carefulness onto the implementor 16:36:14 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:22 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:36:32 Without it, the composability of procedural control structures is expressively limited, in the sense that it requires extra mechanism on top of the language, namely a trampoline, which requires cooperation of everything being composed to work with the trampoline. 16:37:33 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 16:37:46 jcowan: actors? it was the original purpose.. 16:37:53 Ah, good. Thanks. 16:38:25 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:38:54 Jafet: Some of it, but it's still not trivial to make sure you are using tail calls: often the most natural implementation of something is not a tail call. 16:40:25 There's also a nasty interaction between CL-style multiple values and tail calling that causes Lua to severely limit what counts as a tail call, even though it provides proper tail calling. 16:40:46 Ah. I never really understood values. 16:41:05 What is that nasty interaction? It sounds like a bug. 16:41:08 snearch [n=olaf@g225055177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 16:43:03 It's the fact that Lua, like CL, silently truncates values after the first if they are not wanted in the context, converting zero values to nil. These actions are not particularly visible. 16:43:37 OK. How does limit what counts as a tail call? 16:43:39 Thus "return g(...)" will return all the values of g, but "return (g(...)) will return only a single value, since anything in parens is an expression, and the operands of expressions are always single-valued. 16:43:48 Oh, well, that's the bug. 16:44:14 Every language has its own definition of what syntaxes count as tail calls; I don't see that that's a bug. 16:44:21 It's a design bug. 16:44:59 If I have a macro NIGEB that evaluates its operands right to left, then it's not exactly obvious that the first argument is in tail position, but it may well be. 16:45:06 Unless, that is, there is a way to do syntactic grouping without semantic implications. 16:45:26 (Round brackets apparently are not such a way, despite their prevalence in languages with silly syntax for that purpose.) 16:45:46 I know of no ()-using language in which they have no semantic significance. 16:45:48 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:45:55 You just said that they have semantic significance in Lua. 16:46:02 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:46:16 rdd` [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:46:16 ...oh, `no semantic significance'. 16:46:19 Indeed. Likewise in Fortran, C, ... 16:46:28 I missed the negation. 16:47:28 When I say `semantic significance', I mean something beyond merely affecting how the syntax is parsed when there is ambiguity due to silliness such as infix operators with different precedence. 16:47:34 In particular, compilers may not rewrite (A + B) + C into A + (B + C) unless they can prove that this change has no effect on the result. 16:47:42 Which is not easy. 16:48:01 Sure. But consider the fragment `A + B', parsed as an expression. 16:48:22 The incomplete fragment `[] + C' has a hole, denoted by [], where an expression must go. 16:48:59 If we want to fill that hole with the expression `A + B', it may be necessary to surround it in parentheses to avoid parsing ambiguity. 16:49:31 However, there is no difference (in C, for example) between `(A + B) + C' and `((A + B)) + C'. 16:49:52 Thus, the round brackets exist only for the sake of the syntax; they have no semantic significance beyond that. 16:50:02 This is not so in Lua, apparently. 16:50:43 Parenthesizing an expression in round brackets apparently changes the semantics of the expression's evaluation in Lua, setting aside any issues of syntax. 16:51:05 So it does, although this is not a design point but the consequence of a larger design point. 16:51:16 That is what I am calling a (design) bug, if there is no other form of parentheses in its syntax that lacks semantic consequences. 16:53:22 The minute you are doing syntactic grouping of any sort, you are in the domain of single-valued expressions. 16:53:50 thus a() + b(), despite the lack of grouping parens, also coerces its operands to single-valuedness. 16:54:30 No, that's because the evaluation of the expression `A + B' creates single-valued continuations. It has nothing to do with either A or B itself. 16:55:02 (unary continuations, rather) 16:55:11 I don't understand. 16:55:35 If a and b both return two values, the second value of each will be dropped before + is done. That need not have been the case, but it is. 16:55:48 The evaluation of the expression (A) should reduce to the evaluation of the expression A. 16:57:17 Evaluating `A + B' with a continuation c entails (supposing subexpression evaluation is left-to-right) creating a unary continuation to evaluate A, which takes x and proceeds to create a unary continuation to evaluate B, which takes y proceeds to pass the sum of x and y to the continuation c. 16:58:00 -!- samth [n=samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:58:10 s/which takes y proceeds/which takes y and proceeds/1 16:59:00 This has nothing to do with parentheses in `A + B'; the bug in Lua is that the evaluation of (A) does not reduce to the evaluation of A. 16:59:41 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 16:59:48 (or, that Lua has no form of parentheses for which the analogous reduction holds) 17:00:20 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:41 Arguably, however, there is never a need to wrap a function call in Lua parens (and no, there are no other kind). 17:02:15 Sure there is. Otherwise, S-expression motion commands in Emacs don't behave as I want them to. 17:02:45 Ah. 17:03:00 Perhaps in Lua mode S-expression motion commands should behave a bit differently, then. 17:03:14 No, that requires parsing Lua, which I don't want to get involved in, because they chose such an obnoxious syntax. 17:03:48 Moreover, that requires me to know much more about how Lua is parsed in order to predict how C-M-d works. 17:03:57 And I don't want that either. 17:04:08 The real bug, as I said, is that Lua does not reduce evaluating (A) to evaluating A. 17:04:20 In other words, they have made their interpreter more complex than it needs to be, for no obvious reason. 17:05:54 This in turn makes the language harder to understand and to use. 17:06:10 Fortunately, I'm sure it's easy to fix. 17:06:44 (If not, they probably have much bigger problems of a badly written interpreter or compiler.) 17:08:01 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:11:07 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 17:18:03 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:18:11 Huh. Something I didn't realize about Lua: if the final argument in a procedure call returns multiple values, all the values are passed to the function, though this is not true of non-final arguments. 17:18:19 That's very odd. 17:21:54 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:22:43 Why use Lua anyway when there's Chibi?! :) 17:23:45 How much more fragile is Lua's FFI than Chibi's? 17:25:06 I know nothing about the Chibi FFI. Lua is typically used embedded, so the C API is mostly for C/C++ to call Lua rather than the other way about. 17:25:08 I was (mostly) joking. Chibi won't be ready for even beta use until 0.3, and I've been saying that since the beginning. 17:25:37 -!- samth_ is now known as samth 17:26:10 jcowan, presumably there is a way to use C libraries from within Lua, though. 17:26:55 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:27:16 Riastradh: Possibly not, Lua doesn't much in the way of features. 17:27:33 *Riastradh* blinks. 17:27:48 Lua is implemented as a C library, isn't it? So presumably it has to use that library somehow. 17:28:12 To call C libraries from Lua would require writing glue in C for them. 17:28:22 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-234-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:28:34 OK. 17:30:26 -!- perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit ["A cow. A trampoline. Together they fight crime!"] 17:30:56 Lua can only call C functions which accept a Lua state object and return an int which is the number of Lua values being returned. Such functions must use the API to retrieve their arguments and return their values. 17:35:25 -!- tonyg [n=tonyg@host238.lshift.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:37:26 -!- rdd` [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:47 -!- wingo [n=wingo@1.Red-79-151-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:39:21 -!- ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-30.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:39:37 Lis [n=Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:39:40 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-128-210.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:40:02 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-241-252.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:11 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.91.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:57 wingo [n=wingo@207.Red-79-156-145.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:08 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.194.245] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:43:24 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:46:56 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has joined #scheme 17:47:37 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:48:47 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:19 Looks like Lua has swig support though. 17:54:44 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:57:28 Oh, dear, even worse. 18:02:21 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 18:04:53 perdix [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 18:10:55 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:11:39 -!- drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:20:27 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 18:22:46 davazp [n=user@129.Red-79-156-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:24:20 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-vivoapslnsjpulxj] has joined #scheme 18:24:26 sku [n=sk@217.175.1.199] has joined #scheme 18:28:28 shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has joined #scheme 18:33:40 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 18:34:32 -!- sku [n=sk@217.175.1.199] has quit [] 18:39:30 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 18:39:36 foot note number 57 of section 2.5 of sicp ( http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-18.html#footnote_Temp_301 ) says about coercing a number to a polynomial of zero degree. but while implementing such a coercing function, i don't get how to get the variable needed to make the polynomial. The coercion is done here to make it mixable with the other polynomial. but for that the variables to be same too. Without any serious 18:39:36 change to the general structure, is it possible to get the variable across all these barriers? 18:39:39 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ydmslv8 18:51:25 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-202-112.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:52:38 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-202-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:09 copumpkin [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-204.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 18:55:50 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 18:56:22 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 18:59:09 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:56 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 19:01:00 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:03:49 -!- davazp [n=user@129.Red-79-156-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:08 davazp [n=user@143.Red-88-1-103.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:21 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:09:55 keymoo [n=keymoo@77-56-137-139.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 19:10:31 dmoerner [n=dmr@90-164.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 19:10:34 -!- keymoo [n=keymoo@77-56-137-139.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:31 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:53 -!- wingo [n=wingo@207.Red-79-156-145.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:15:42 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 19:24:57 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has joined #scheme 19:25:50 nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-115.subnet-255.amherst.edu] has joined #scheme 19:28:31 shyam_k: sorry, man; i've read the question two or three times but can't fathom it. 19:28:46 can you distill the essence without overloading such verbs as get or nouns as variable? 19:29:04 s/get/"get"/, s/variable/"variable"/ 19:29:11 -!- Guest98690 is now known as klutometis 19:29:58 -!- nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-115.subnet-255.amherst.edu] has left #scheme 19:30:59 klutometis: sorry for that:( i'll restate it. 19:31:57 thanks ;) 19:32:59 what i want is to add x^2 + 3x+ 1 with x^2+ (y^2 + 1) x + 5 so here i want to coerce 3 to a polynomial in y. But i can't think how to do that with the things explained so far. 19:34:52 are you working in particular on 2.92? 19:35:37 nope.. i was just reading the foot note 57 and working on 2.88 19:35:48 i have a make-sparse-polynomial procedure, for instance, that takes the variable: (make-sparse-polynomial 'y (list (make-term 1 1))) 19:36:25 the make-polynomial function, then, should include the variable you're working with 19:36:55 oh, i see 19:36:57 hmm 19:37:22 may be we can say that in this case it becomes a multivariate polynomial.. 19:37:47 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@vpn74.its.manchester.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 19:37:50 that's how i solved it, i believe 19:37:51 and continue being a good boy and do what is said:) 19:37:54 heh 19:38:53 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 19:39:41 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:40:10 what is make-sparse-polynomial doing? 19:40:40 you'll get to that later; sparse and dense polynomials are just different ways of representing the same thing 19:41:07 ah ok.. that one.. 19:41:27 come to think of it, though, it looks like i implemented sub-poly in terms of add-poly; and it gives an error when the variables differ 19:41:50 that may become a problem if you extrapolate from a scalar to a 0-degree poly with a different variable 19:43:17 yeah thats the problem.. with so much barriers it seems impossible to know, which variable we should use to coerce the number 19:45:13 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 19:45:50 it looks like you're looking ahead to 2.92 19:46:17 i have a solution, but i'm not sure why it works 19:46:27 i remember this being one of the more sticky sections in the whole book 19:46:31 nope.. am sticking so much to the text.. may be i should stop thinking and proceed.. 19:47:14 yeah; you'll cross that bridge in 2.92, when they ask you to implement mul-poly and add-poly for polies of different vars 19:47:28 ah ic.. 19:47:37 keep it in the back of your mind, though, while implementing; so that you're implementation is flexible enough to accomodate it 19:49:04 ah i just thought of that. i.e to use a "unique" variable for all zero degree polynomials and make add-poly and mul-poly recognize that.. anyway i'll just wait until i reach 2.92 19:49:23 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:47 oh, nice; that might work 19:50:26 how much does it take for one to complete sicp? hehe:) 19:50:39 *shyam_k* is just a bit impatient :) 19:51:00 s/much/much months/ 19:51:56 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@90-164.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:53:35 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:02:10 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053FDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:42 dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.91.146] has joined #scheme 20:14:30 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.91.146] has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:28 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-201-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:24:46 Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:25:02 STM. Discuss! 20:25:55 *copumpkin* would start talking about it, but if anyone interjected during my monologue, I would have to start again 20:26:42 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:26:43 *Riastradh* writes copumpkin up a /me citation. 20:26:53 yeah :( I keep failing at that :( 20:33:00 Here's an interesting fact about the STM that Scheme48 and GHC provide: 20:33:58 During a transaction, the process is guaranteed not to observe changes in the state of the world: two reads from the same location always yield the same value. But this does not mean that during a transaction, the process observes a consistent snapshot of the world; in fact, it may observe the world in a state of total chaos, with all data structure invariants broken. 20:34:20 It just won't see that state change during the transaction. 20:35:46 I thought that turned out not to be the case in GHC's STM 20:36:03 But I can't say I followed too closely 20:36:50 If I recall correctly, GHC establishes a condition handler that retries the transaction on any error if it has been invalidated. 20:37:04 (Scheme48 does not.) 20:38:40 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:17 -!- Lis [n=Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 20:40:31 have you looked at clojure's implementation? it's all I ever hear about from its proponents 20:41:22 Clojure is different: it does give each process in a transaction a consistent snapshot of the world. 20:41:43 -!- alaricsp [n=alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:41:58 But at a much greater expense: reads and writes require updating a complicated tree structure, rather than editing individual word-size locations in memory. 20:42:04 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:43:19 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 20:46:19 -!- snearch [n=olaf@g225055177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:46:46 shyam_k: i took about a summer to do it; on, off. 20:47:42 (And I can't say that it impresses me to see most of Clojure's implementation in a language other than Clojure -- particularly when most of that code is in Java...) 20:47:59 would you call clojure a scheme? 20:48:04 No. 20:48:36 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 20:49:20 dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.91.146] has joined #scheme 20:51:10 copumpkin: Absolutely not. It's designed to meld the simple, clear, and well-thought-out design of Common Lisp with the powerful semantics of Java. 20:51:21 :O 20:51:27 that sounds like marketing talk 20:51:35 and sarcasm :) 20:51:37 It's merely heavy sarcasm. 20:51:52 :) 20:52:50 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.91.146] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:13 -!- perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:55:29 perdix [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:00:24 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:01:45 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@vpn74.its.manchester.ac.uk] has quit [] 21:06:57 No doubt someone has written a suite of stress tests for SRFI 18. 21:08:11 Somehow, though, Google doesn't turn it up. 21:11:16 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 21:16:29 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:46 GodsHawk [n=Nathan@unaffiliated/nathan/x-8754142] has joined #scheme 21:19:50 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:42:23 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 21:43:27 perdiy [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:53:34 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-204.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 21:55:15 eli: I'm looking at PLT's implementation of `include' ATM; is there any reason who `do-include' _has_ to be macro? 21:55:26 -!- perdiy is now known as perdix_ 21:55:49 (I'm trying to add support for preserving source locations in my version of `include' on PLT, and failing miserably so far) 21:57:05 What happens if you implement it as a procedure? 21:58:38 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [] 21:58:47 rotty: the include that includes some file textually? 21:59:29 Riastradh: I have it working as a procedure, but trying to add source locations gives me "undefined reference" errors 21:59:55 masm: yes, the one in collects/scheme/include.ss 22:00:06 awarrington_ [n=quassel@officebv.conductor.com] has joined #scheme 22:00:09 How do you do that? With eval? 22:00:24 Undefined reference errors? 22:00:30 no, using `syntax-case' 22:00:46 -!- borism_ [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:01 Riastradh: sorry, the exact error (in a simple testcase) is: /home/rotty/src/spe/r6rs-libs/plt-test/buggy.scm::1: compile: unbound identifier (and no #%top syntax transformer is bound) in: define 22:04:04 -!- perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:17 Have you read section 13.1 of the reference manual? 22:04:32 About namespaces. 22:06:01 rotty, the definition of DO-INCLUDE involves (QUOTE-SYNTAX HERE). That does not appear to be straightforwardly translatable to a procedure definition -- perhaps you should pass that in to DO-INCLUDE from its callers. 22:08:23 chops [n=nope@202.3.37.233] has joined #scheme 22:08:39 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:10:02 borism [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 22:10:08 mejja, so, what did GCTWAing break? 22:10:46 My (silly) obarray stat function... 22:10:51 hmm, so (QUOTE-SYNTAX HERE) differs in semantics from the CTX that is passed to the macro? 22:12:32 I don't know, rotty. All I know is that (QUOTE-SYNTAX HERE) looks pretty magical to me. 22:13:02 masm: would that section not apply only to `eval'? I thought namespaces are a mostly dynamic thing... 22:16:17 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:16:20 TR2N [i=email@89-180-135-135.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 22:16:21 Probably. I don't really understand what you are doing. 22:16:32 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:16:44 -!- awarrington [n=quassel@officebv.conductor.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:16:44 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:17:29 masm: you know what `include' from the scheme/include library does? I'm trying to replicate that in my own code. 22:18:49 awarrington [n=quassel@officebv.conductor.com] has joined #scheme 22:21:00 rotty: looking at the do-include code, it uses local-expand. It must be done in a macro, right? 22:21:42 The question is not whether these operations must be done in a macro, masm. The question is whether the helper routine, DO-INCLUDE, which is always used from a macro, must itself be a macro or can instead be a procedure. 22:22:38 exactly. 22:22:39 Oh, OK, OK. Sorry. 22:23:33 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 22:31:05 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:38:11 -!- awarrington_ [n=quassel@officebv.conductor.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:47:53 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:52:58 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:54:33 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:54:46 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 22:55:33 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:57:36 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:23 EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-192-206.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 23:00:54 i'm wanting to build a list containing certain pairs 23:01:32 so i'm using an unless statement to determine if the pair i'm testing should be placed into the list 23:02:03 unfortunately this fills the list with voids where i want it to ignore the void tests 23:02:28 hm 23:02:43 does anyone understand a bit of that? i'm not sure how to explain it 23:02:59 EleminoP: have you looked at SRFI-1, specifically `filter' and `filter-map'? 23:03:22 i've not learned those 23:03:35 and this is for a class, so i'm guessing there's a simpler wat 23:03:37 way* 23:03:40 EleminoP: am I assuming rightly that your input is a list? 23:03:52 it's actually a vector 23:03:56 er 23:04:00 a table 23:04:15 which is just a vector full of equal length vectors 23:04:15 what's a table? a hashtable? 23:04:25 ah, ok 23:04:35 yeah, so what i'm doing is testing a point on the table 23:04:47 and making a list of the points around it 23:05:02 but the points around it must meet a certain criteria to be included in the list 23:05:34 dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.91.146] has joined #scheme 23:05:46 the way i have it, it's working for the points that should be placed in the list 23:05:52 but for the other ones, it's putting voids in it 23:06:15 bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 23:06:18 ((4 . 3) (1 . 3) # #) is what i'm getting 23:06:20 it's hard to tell what exactly is wrong without seeing the code... 23:06:26 ((4 . 3) (1 . 3)) is what i need 23:06:31 lisppaste: url? 23:06:31 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 23:06:50 it's pretty ugly 23:07:15 EleminoP pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91556 23:07:57 the table is a maze 23:08:14 with a certain character representing a wall 23:08:16 -!- shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:26 EleminoP: have a look at `append' 23:09:01 and use it instead of `list'. you'd also need `if' instead of `unless' 23:10:46 (the idea is to append the parts of your result list together; some of those parts might turn out to be empty) 23:10:59 ah, ok 23:11:58 append doesn't work on pairs it seems 23:12:03 Error in append: (1 . 3) is not a proper list. 23:13:18 oh, i see a way to do it 23:13:28 -!- bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:13:29 it's ugly though 23:14:08 bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 23:17:15 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-68-160-40-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:17:36 rotty 23:17:44 (if (wall? (table-ref t (modulo (- r 1) total-rows) c)) '() 23:17:44 (list (cons (modulo (- r 1) total-rows) c) '())) 23:21:52 i thought that would work 23:23:01 arg, i see my mistake 23:23:25 copumpkin [n=copumpki@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:30:33 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:38:00 -!- EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-192-206.noc.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 23:43:57 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 23:52:16 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-234-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:52:26 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:58:35 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]