00:03:20 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DDF8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:06:00 crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #scheme 00:07:32 what is this symbol -> #; it's from Campbell's BNF 00:07:54 it's in the production 00:08:44 -!- Paraselene__ [n=None@79-67-188-149.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:26 bytecolor: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-62/ 00:09:27 Paraselene__ [n=None@79-67-188-149.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:12:31 mejja: ahh, thanks 00:13:27 -!- davazp [n=user@218.Red-83-37-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:54 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D89.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:21:18 schmir [n=schmir@p54A90C1A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:24:04 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:24:33 -!- rgrau` [n=user@171.Red-88-16-67.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:05 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:44:48 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A90C1A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:49:23 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 00:50:05 -!- Penth [n=rachel@pool-173-62-231-230.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:50:58 Penth [n=rachel@pool-173-62-230-197.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:51:33 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.153.89.247] has left #scheme 01:01:36 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:38 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:34 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:26:52 -!- flonklebonkle [n=nobody@Wa137.w.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:28:36 sysop_fb [i=fb@cpe-075-184-018-184.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:34:31 -!- ada2358 [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 01:34:47 ada2358 [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:39:47 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 01:40:51 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110] has joined #scheme 01:51:14 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110] has quit [] 01:54:47 aryaeskan [n=aryaeska@ip98-169-65-4.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:57:26 I'm trying to learn scheme on os x, what compiler should I download? 02:00:36 plt 02:00:44 http://plt-scheme.org 02:01:04 thanks, that one looked nice 02:01:35 is it better than gnu/mit scheme? 02:03:07 hardly... 02:05:06 -!- xwl_` is now known as xwl_ 02:10:09 its exactly 39235.435 times better 02:22:40 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110] has joined #scheme 02:22:46 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110] has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:13 Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 02:24:48 foof, earlier you asked: `Which Scheme FFIs allow distinguishing pointers returned from C which should be automatically freed when the Scheme reference is GCed?' This question suggests that it is motivated by considering a design that is very fragile, where Scheme takes responsibility for a resource only after control has returned from C into Scheme. 02:26:02 foof, first, there are many more resources than just malloc'd memory; any mechanism you implement should admit more general resources. Consider, for example, file descriptors, or database handles. I presume you already had that in mind, but I thought I'd mention because you spoke of automatic freeing. 02:28:12 foof, that said, it is very fragile for Scheme to take responsibility for resources only after C has successfully returned them, unless you have some very strong additional constraints that most Scheme systems do not provide. In particular, if you allow ^C, thread switching, &c., to interrupt Scheme between the allocation of the resource (in C) and the taking of its responsibility (in Scheme), then you can leak. 02:30:24 This is worse than interrupting edits of a mutable data structure, which would put the data structure into an inconsistent state, because often you can just throw away the data structure at the REPL and create a new one, but you can't do that with scarce resources such as file descriptors or malloc'd memory without exiting the process. 02:33:24 One way to avoid this problem is to block interrupts during that window, but that's not very desirable; for example, it might cause thread starvation. It also requires a mechanism for blocking interrupts in Scheme, which you may not have and which you may not want to have either. 02:33:34 -!- aryaeskan [n=aryaeska@ip98-169-65-4.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #scheme 02:37:31 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:38:50 Instead, if you allocate a location for a C object representing a scarce resource (e.g., to hold the pointer to malloc'd memory, or the integral value of a file descriptor), and if the *location* is represented by a collectable object in Scheme, then you can associate a finalization procedure with that object *before* Scheme ever takes responsibility for the scarce resource, and then in C fill the location with the scarce resource, assuming some 02:39:00 I was probably truncated there: 02:39:39 ...then you can associate a finalization procedure with that object before Scheme ever takes responsibility for the scarce resource, and then in C you can fill the location with a descriptor for the scarce resource, assuming some notion of atomicity in C (which you can have, e.g., with signal masks). 02:40:04 That eliminates any window during which Scheme is supposed to take responsibility for the resource but may be interrupted before it actually has done so. 02:41:29 And eliminating the window is altogether more robust than trying to ensure that every step of the path from C back into Scheme (which is often a very complicated path -- especially if you ever want to consider sharing this code between multiple Scheme systems) is protected against interruption. 02:43:37 See for an example of an interface to a system of scarce resources in C (file descriptors) that I believe is free of race conditions and interruption windows, given that contiguous sequences of C code are interruptwise atomic, and so are (in some sense) finalization procedures (the first argument to MAKE-DEFAULT-FINALIZER). 02:43:45 Riastradh: Thanks for the detailed respomse! 02:45:30 (Finalization procedures do not exactly need to be protected against interrupts -- you just need to make sure that if they are interrupted, then they are restarted. That puts some difficult constraints on finalization procedures, which I haven't fully formulated, but most of them are pretty easy: they will just immediately pass control to C to release the resource.) 02:45:57 (I mean: most of the finalization procedures are pretty easy and thus readily satisfy the constraints.) 02:46:45 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 02:46:59 (Also, small note about that code, which is commented in the original paste but not in the first annotation (which is a substantial revision of the original paste to enable an important abstraction for file descriptors): FILE-DESCRIPTOR-MAP-MUTEX need not be a recursive mutex; that's just a vestige of a very old edition of the code.) 02:48:09 Hmmm. It occurs to me that the finalization procedure should really pass the alien, not the integer stored in the alien, to close(2). I think the only reason that I passed the integer was that it made the definition of %CLOSE-FILE-DESCRIPTOR smaller. 02:49:13 I'm having trouble seeing how you can atomically allocate a resource and assign it to a Scheme object without a chance for interrupts in between, even if you pre-allocate the Scheme object. 02:51:03 Allocate a location that is visible to C. For example, if you can guarantee that objects will not move during (the kernel of) the call to C, then you can allocate an int-sized byte vector in the Scheme heap and pass the pointer to its bytes into C. 02:51:52 Then C calls open(2), and if open(2) is successful (here the sequence from when open(2) returns to the following action must be interruptwise atomic), C writes the new file descriptor to the location you allocated. 02:52:40 What if the interrupt occurs between C calling open(2) and writing the file descriptor? 02:52:49 (See the definition of %OPEN-PIPE for example -- open(2) itself is not wrapped in there because it additionally has to do with the file system, which involves passing pathnames to C, which is hair irrelevant to the ideas that code is intended to demonstrate.) 02:53:15 As I said: the sequence from when open(2) returns, to the writing of the file descriptor to the previously allocated location, must be interruptwise atomic. 02:53:34 You can do this, for example, with the process signal mask, or by making sure that your signal handlers never do anything interesting. 02:56:08 OK 03:00:37 Please let me know if you have any questions about the file descriptor code -- it is very hairy, because handling scarce resources carefully is not easy. As I said, I believe it is free of race conditions and interruption windows, but I could be wrong; I have successfully thrown some stress tests at it, but not many. 03:01:29 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:02:33 By "interesting" you mean like abandon the current computation, e.g. aborting to the repl on C-c? Otherwise a typical interrupt handler will resume and pass the resource to the Scheme object afterwards. 03:02:47 Oh, and there is some scanty documentation about the C interface abstraction that it uses; let me see where I put it. 03:03:33 I mean any non-local control transfers or any editing of any data structures other than flags or queues that indicate that an interrupt has arrived. 03:04:09 For example, this signal handler doesn't do anything interesting: void handle_sigint (int sig) { received_sigint = 1; } 03:04:22 right 03:04:41 This signal handler does something very interesting: void handle_sigint (int sig) { int *sig_ptr = (malloc (sizeof (sig))); (*sig_ptr) = sig; last_sig_ptr = sig_ptr; } 03:04:54 geckosenator [n=sean@69.226.133.43] has joined #scheme 03:05:02 (If you write that, well, may you live in interesting times.) 03:05:26 Here's the (scanty draft of) documentation: 03:05:54 Or rather, scanty draft of an introduction to still unwritten documentation. 03:06:30 OK, I don't see how that handler can introduce an interrupt window. 03:06:42 flonklebonkle [n=nobody@89.58.152.243] has joined #scheme 03:06:44 Calling malloc is very interesting. 03:06:58 You had better be pretty sure that *every* place you call malloc in your program, you have blocked SIGINT. 03:08:56 maybe you could just wrap malloc 03:08:57 This signal handler is not very interesting, unless signal_fd is blocking: int handler (int sig) { (void) write (signal_fd, (&sig), (sizeof sig)); } 03:09:08 OK, normally you call "pipe(fds); set_car(res, fds[0]);" 03:09:38 What can go wrong if a malloc() happens between the pipe and the set_car? 03:10:06 Nothing. I'm using `interesting' about signal handlers in a general sense here -- not all interesting signal handlers will cause problems with the scarce resources under discussion. 03:10:53 If a signal handler calls longjmp, it would be interesting in a way that may cause problems with the protocol for taking responsibility for resources. 03:11:09 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 03:11:11 Thanks for the stubber manual, btw, I just started writing my own. 03:14:23 "Warning: DO NOT FORGET TO (END-C-STUB)" 03:14:34 Why not just make C-STUB a wrapping form? 03:15:25 That is an artefact of the Scheme48 implementation (which is at present the only working implementation). I believe there is a technical reason for it, but I don't remember the reason off the top of my head. 03:17:20 Actually, on second thought, it may instead be an artefact of the MIT Scheme implementation (which does not yet work). The two have slightly different macro expansion processes; it is in the macro expansion process that the issue arises. 03:18:08 In any case, there is no particularly linguistic justification for it; that just reflects how I was able to make it work expediently. It would probably be better to integrate BEGIN-C-STUB and END-C-STUB into the module system. 03:22:15 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:34:40 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-146-194.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 03:48:47 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@69.226.133.43] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:53:23 -!- xwl_ [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:58:02 dmoerner [n=dmr@63.250.234.126] has joined #scheme 04:09:35 tjafk [n=timj@e176222178.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:09:46 -!- tjaway [n=timj@e176216016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:58 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 04:14:16 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 04:15:27 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["graphics hardware wedged, sigh"] 04:19:31 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:16 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 04:23:31 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:24:07 xwl_ [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 04:26:40 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:30:24 ada2358_ [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 04:33:09 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:36:16 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:40:36 -!- ada2358 [n=ada2358@unaffiliated/ada2358] has quit [Success] 04:45:02 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 04:49:58 -!- sysop_fb [i=fb@cpe-075-184-018-184.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:59:32 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:02:40 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 05:17:41 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 05:19:08 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:19:12 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:19:16 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@63.250.234.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:20:15 Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:20:42 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 05:24:26 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 05:25:09 -!- samth [n=samth@c-76-24-220-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:50 -!- Modius [n=Modius@70.123.130.159] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:57 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 05:32:46 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.15.105] has joined #scheme 05:36:15 drwho [n=d@98.225.211.78] has joined #scheme 05:51:09 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:02:29 -!- ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:04:13 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 06:04:19 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.15.105] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:12:48 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-124-156.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:13:42 bytecolor [n=user@32.153.90.236] has joined #scheme 06:18:02 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 06:22:02 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:30:24 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:34:04 ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:35:04 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 06:35:58 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 06:39:44 snearch [n=olaf@g225048013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 06:42:55 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:52:48 blAckEn3d [i=alex@79.117.153.27] has joined #scheme 06:56:30 does entering the continuation saved in return (here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/90935 ) grow the stack? 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08:58:51 eni_ [n=eni@83.204.255.110] has joined #scheme 09:01:25 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:09:20 C-Keen: it affects all code; but only between 0:00 and 1:00 an certain days 09:11:15 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 09:11:34 schmir [n=schmir@p54A9247F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:23:27 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme 09:29:36 klutometis: what exactly? (local-timezone) is not defined in unit posix (local-timezone-abbreviation) is 09:42:32 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 09:45:34 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 09:48:33 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:54:42 ejs1 [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has joined #scheme 09:54:43 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 09:58:28 germ13 [n=germ13@cpe-75-83-42-140.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:03:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:01 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 10:20:11 beautiful [n=beauty@83.231.83.177] has joined #scheme 10:39:55 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A9247F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:43:35 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:44:50 flonklebonkle [n=nobody@W86e3.w.pppool.de] has joined #scheme 10:54:09 -!- germ13 [n=germ13@cpe-75-83-42-140.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:56:08 -!- beautiful [n=beauty@83.231.83.177] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:10:02 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:16:04 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme 11:19:38 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.153.90.236] has left #scheme 11:19:44 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@129.10.110.45] has joined #scheme 11:21:08 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 11:21:57 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-146-194.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:45:51 so, if i would like to do some scheme scripting on a 64 bit linux (so, no scsh)... what would you recommend? 11:59:30 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 12:01:03 *attila_lendvai* is checking out gosh 12:06:27 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 12:10:10 snearch [n=olaf@g225048013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 12:21:07 beautiful [n=beauty@83.231.17.38] has joined #scheme 12:24:13 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 12:24:15 perdix [n=perdix@f055103016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 12:50:48 attila_lendvai: gosh is a good bet for scripting 12:51:08 oh my gosh! 12:51:48 -!- drwho [n=d@98.225.211.78] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:51:54 metasyntax [n=taylor@75.149.208.121] has joined #scheme 12:52:53 scripting with scheme is much easier than with common lisp because of the infrastructure issues... and even if it's my first time writing real lines of scheme code 12:53:11 schmir [n=schmir@84.169.36.127] has joined #scheme 12:58:18 davazp [n=user@83.37.233.218] has joined #scheme 12:58:24 samth [n=samth@76.24.220.74] has joined #scheme 13:01:12 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:05:16 drwho [n=d@98.225.211.78] has joined #scheme 13:11:27 i'm using slib for scripting and i have a hard time finding examples... am i on the wrong path? 13:12:56 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-182-40.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 13:13:46 Just use the gosh libs - slib isn't terribly useful. 13:14:49 -!- perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit ["A cow. A trampoline. Together they fight crime!"] 13:20:45 foof, ah, right, progress in that direction seems to come easier... thanks! 13:21:03 s/come/be/ 13:24:31 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:25:50 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 13:35:00 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.12.27] has joined #scheme 13:35:20 ejs2 [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has joined #scheme 13:40:07 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 13:43:41 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:52:13 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:52:29 xwl [n=user@125.34.168.46] has joined #scheme 13:52:34 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 14:04:35 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110] has joined #scheme 14:07:49 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 14:08:05 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:55 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 14:11:17 -!- beautiful is now known as beauty 14:13:14 -!- schmir [n=schmir@84.169.36.127] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:15:02 -!- beauty [n=beauty@83.231.17.38] has quit [] 14:18:37 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 14:20:15 leppie|work_ [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-bbtslqwpvqifkgjr] has joined #scheme 14:21:43 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-uihkaxdnpiikbjch] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 14:23:59 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:25:46 -!- samth [n=samth@76.24.220.74] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:26:57 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:29:32 nan8 [n=user@kallisto.karme.de] has joined #scheme 14:43:25 ejs [n=eugen@85.238.112.35] has joined #scheme 14:47:15 hi 14:50:41 is there a procedure that takes a structured list as argument and returns a list whose elements are the sublists' elements of the structured list? ex. (explode '(((a b) ((c d) e)) (f g)) h)) gives the result (a b c d e f g h) 14:50:54 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:55:32 langmartin [n=user@152.85.133.62] has joined #scheme 14:57:31 seanmcl [n=sean@98.236.31.247] has joined #scheme 14:58:41 I'm a scheme novice. I know the usual let, let*, letrec forms, but I'm puzzled by this code I read 14:58:44 (define (hefty-computation do-other-stuff) 14:58:45 (let loop ((n 5)) 14:58:45 (display "Hefty computation: ") 14:58:45 (display n) 14:58:45 (newline) 14:59:06 What does (let id (binds) exp) do? 14:59:32 It appears from the definition that the syntax is (let (binds) exp) 15:00:19 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:00:52 seanmcl: it's a "named let" 15:01:12 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_sec_4.2.4 15:01:15 it looks like the user is using it like a function 15:01:15 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5wvqr7 15:01:49 thanks! 15:02:05 np 15:05:58 -!- eni_ is now known as albacker 15:09:26 Edico: flatten 15:13:57 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 15:16:26 Edico: it is non standard but most scheme implementation provide a function like this 15:18:15 *nan8* has searched for flatten multiple times in the past ;-) 15:21:29 join #prolog 15:21:36 oops 15:27:33 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-204.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 15:32:53 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@COBALT.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:34:27 Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 15:39:53 -!- ejs [n=eugen@85.238.112.35] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 15:40:24 -!- drwho [n=d@98.225.211.78] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:50 ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-35.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has joined #scheme 15:44:36 :) 15:44:47 As a professor of me wrote: If we compare McCarthy's proposals, his design, and the current state of LISP, then it is remarkable how much was established so early. LISP would look like 3-LISP (without reflection, maybe) if McCarthy had studied Church's paper more closely. As things stand, he must prefer SCHEME to CommonLISP -- a clear, understandable small diamond, to a messy, incomprehensible clump. 15:45:07 s,me,mine, 15:46:09 -!- nan8 [n=user@kallisto.karme.de] has left #scheme 15:47:13 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:49:23 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:51:52 -!- seanmcl [n=sean@98.236.31.247] has quit [] 15:54:59 seanmcl [n=sean@c-98-236-31-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:55:57 what would be the point of 3-lisp without reflection? 15:56:41 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.230.130] has quit ["off"] 16:08:22 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.146.247] has quit [] 16:09:59 -!- aehrisch [n=knauel@vhost.knauel.org] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:09:59 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:10:20 aehrisch [n=knauel@vhost.knauel.org] has joined #scheme 16:11:04 -!- ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-35.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 16:13:13 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-124-156.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:13:28 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 16:13:41 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:08 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-247-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:25:57 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 16:27:50 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has quit ["Leaving..."] 16:35:56 -!- seanmcl [n=sean@c-98-236-31-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:41:47 seanmcl [n=sean@c-98-236-31-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:41:56 -!- seanmcl [n=sean@c-98-236-31-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 16:43:25 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:16 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 16:54:36 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-146-194.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 16:57:48 Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #scheme 17:08:12 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 17:09:25 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:09:53 jeapostrophe [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:09:58 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:33 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:15:35 zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #scheme 17:22:20 ejs [n=eugen@135-63-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 17:24:43 -!- xwl [n=user@125.34.168.46] has quit [Success] 17:29:09 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:46:17 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@mo-rsmitha21.op.umist.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 17:47:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@135-63-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:58:46 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@mo-rsmitha21.op.umist.ac.uk] has quit [] 17:58:52 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-247-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:00:42 C-Keen: here are the eggs the application loads: (require-extension syntax-case fastcgi sxml-templates cgi-util lazy-ffi utils http-client regex (srfi 1 9 11 13 19 26 69)) 18:00:57 could be any one of the, i suppose; i thought i had it narrowed down at some point, though 18:03:53 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-247-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:15:42 -!- kniu [n=kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:14 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:18:21 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 18:20:45 -!- jar286 [n=jar@30-16-246.dynamic.csail.mit.edu] has quit [] 18:22:06 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:22:34 jar286 [n=jar@31-34-38.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:28:46 -!- snearch [n=olaf@g225048013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:29:54 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:30:34 -!- jar286 [n=jar@31-34-38.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [] 18:38:51 jar286 [n=jar@31-34-38.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:47:43 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-204.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:52:52 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bebkdsrdmnpxiamx] has joined #scheme 18:54:26 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-247-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:54:56 -!- jar286 [n=jar@31-34-38.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has left #scheme 18:58:44 awarrington [n=quassel@officebv.conductor.com] has joined #scheme 18:59:13 -!- awarrington is now known as awarring 18:59:15 ejs [n=eugen@85.238.112.99] has joined #scheme 19:06:35 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-247-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:10:17 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-154-178.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:23:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@85.238.112.99] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:23:14 Fnord! 19:25:09 *gnomon* doesn't see the fnord 19:25:15 *gnomon* DOESN'T SEE THE FNORD 19:25:21 Don't eat me. 19:28:42 om nom gnomon 19:31:04 beauty [n=beauty@83.231.83.67] has joined #scheme 19:31:15 night 19:31:36 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:31:38 Day? 19:32:37 not here! 19:33:14 it's dark and cold outside so it must be night 19:34:05 kniu [n=kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:34:10 It could be an eclipse! 19:34:27 Or you could be blind. Your mum always said that might happen. 19:35:07 no bloated eclipses here 19:37:15 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 19:37:44 Why doesn't sun shine at night? 19:37:59 it does 19:38:03 Because it took a nap somewhere in Arizona. 19:38:15 but it just does it anywhere else 19:38:16 beauty: not here! 19:38:21 It must be hard work generating those bajillions of joules of energy all the time. 19:38:36 I imagine you'd want an occasional nap, too, if you did that. 19:38:43 #t 19:39:13 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 19:39:19 I couldn't even make a led blink with my current energy. 19:43:04 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:43:34 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:53:30 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:54:39 -!- jewel 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as eternal_learner 20:43:11 hello everybody 20:45:47 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:45:56 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 20:48:38 -!- aintme [n=Miranda@247.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["/* */"] 20:53:13 -!- eternal_learner [n=anthony@85-170-203-125.rev.numericable.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:00:25 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:02:23 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-182-40.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:05:43 masm [n=masm@bl9-112-125.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:05:51 -!- albacker is now known as edon 21:06:29 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 21:08:15 -!- edon [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:41 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 21:11:38 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11:43 -!- jeapostrophe 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has quit [Connection timed out] 22:08:03 Paraselene__ [n=None@79-67-188-149.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 22:16:21 -!- beauty [n=beauty@83.231.83.67] has quit [] 22:17:39 incubot: Engineers operating the Large Hadron Collider have smashed together proton beams in the machine for the very first time. 22:17:43 collider data 22:18:04 something about protons 22:25:09 oh my god mejja really 22:25:31 I thought the protons were still only being shunted around in the structure. 22:30:14 snearch_ [n=olaf@g225048013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:34:55 seanmcl [n=sean@c-98-236-31-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:38:51 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:42:27 -!- seanmcl [n=sean@c-98-236-31-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:44:36 i can smash protons together, simple 22:44:39 *jonrafkind* claps his hands 22:52:04 har har 22:57:47 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@173.172.99.25] has joined #scheme 23:02:26 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