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sleep"] 03:49:45 nothere [n=nothere4@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:50:53 -!- nothere [n=nothere4@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:58 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 03:52:03 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:52:48 tjaway [n=timj@e176204001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:57:23 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:58:21 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:58:27 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:45 h4k3r [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-163-97.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:01:01 hi 04:02:27 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:07:33 Greetings h4k3r 04:07:39 eno [n=eno@70.137.162.184] has joined #scheme 04:07:43 hi 04:07:55 im just switching from imperative to functional language 04:07:59 so frustrated 04:08:00 :( 04:08:23 so im looking for help :( 04:08:26 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176193254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:09:17 :| 04:09:35 oh i've fixed my program 04:09:38 :) 04:11:10 No problem at all. Come back any time. 04:12:41 :) 04:12:58 thank you 04:14:00 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:05 incubot: are we not generous? 04:14:09 (that's least generous for the reader, of course) 04:14:15 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:14:43 well jcowan didn't stick around long... 04:15:39 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:19:22 ? 04:22:29 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:28:21 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 04:34:29 -!- hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:41:14 hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:45:13 incwolf [n=phil@cpe-76-172-228-179.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:46:46 how can I write 2 consecutive statements in a block? 04:46:50 like { 04:47:11 { 04:47:13 statement1; 04:47:15 statement2; 04:47:17 } 04:47:19 in Scheme 04:49:21 (begin (expression1) (expression2)) 04:49:33 Scheme doesn't distinguish between statements and expressions. 04:51:12 I always see Scheme program written in Recursive style 04:51:33 mabes_ [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:51:38 can I write it in iterative style like C++ ? 04:51:49 sorry for my noob question ":| 04:52:03 -!- mabes_ [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:23 (begin (display "Hello") (display "World!")) 04:53:10 h4k3r: You can write macros for iterative loops. Many Scheme implementations have while and until loops. 04:53:46 Im using DrScheme 04:53:57 thank you for ur help :) 04:53:59 However, these idioms force you to use mutation, which is generally slower than tail-recursive loops in Scheme, so you're better off learning the Scheme idioms. 04:54:18 yeah I know 04:54:26 fold and map! 04:54:30 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:54:56 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:55:18 but switching from imperative language's thinking to functional language's thinking seems not an easy task 04:55:28 it takes practice 04:55:38 you won't get practice if you keep using imperative idioms 04:56:37 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:56:37 -!- incwolf_ [n=phil@cpe-76-172-228-179.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:57:12 yeah :) 04:58:35 I'm practicing 04:59:02 writing a procedure to return a distinct list 04:59:31 proc '(1 2 1 3 4 2) => return (1 2 3 4) 05:00:07 any hint? 05:01:38 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-14-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 05:02:28 evanmeagher [n=mongoose@c-67-161-84-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:02:52 -!- evanmeagher [n=mongoose@c-67-161-84-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 05:03:31 first, sort the list. There's a built-in function for that 05:03:44 rudybot: eval (sort '(1 2 1 3 4 2) <) 05:03:44 *offby1: ; Value: (1 1 2 2 3 4) 05:03:56 then write a function that "uniqifies" the result 05:06:34 rudybot: eval (define (uniq seq) (cond ((null? seq) seq) ((null? (cdr seq)) seq) ((equal? (car seq) (cadr seq)) (uniq (cdr seq))) (else (cons (car seq) (uniq (cdr seq)))))) 05:06:42 :| 05:06:43 rudybot: eval (uniq (sort '(1 2 1 3 4 2) <)) 05:06:43 *offby1: ; Value: (1 2 3 4) 05:07:01 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195.50.197.221] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:12 thank you . Im looking into ur code 05:07:19 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:30 don't be killin my doodz 05:07:47 sry 05:09:25 that code will make a lot more sense if you indent it properly: http://gist.github.com/222918 05:09:51 thanks man, I appreciate it 05:10:54 when you get into graduate school, you'll rewrite that to be "tail-recursive" 05:11:47 what are benefits of Scheme 05:12:15 I mean, isnt code written in scheme hard to read? 05:12:21 compare to other languages 05:12:32 I find it much easier. 05:12:38 because it uses extensively recursion 05:16:02 I'm not sure it has "benefits" in the business sense (some will disagree with me, I know); I just like it 05:16:36 here's the same thing, but in a PLT-specific idiom: http://gist.github.com/222923 05:16:47 (as far as I know, only PLT has "for/fold") 05:17:08 interesting 05:17:27 mongooseWA [n=mongoose@c-67-161-84-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:17:34 actually I should have wrapped the whole thing inside a call to "reverse"; oh well 05:17:46 :) 05:18:13 -!- mongooseWA [n=mongoose@c-67-161-84-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 05:19:04 -!- Axioplas1_ is now known as Axioplase 05:19:21 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:23 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 05:20:26 :) 05:20:28 yeah 05:21:11 its just like looking at the problem from a totally different view 05:21:27 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 05:21:33 ayup 05:21:56 it's probably not a bad language to learn, as your first (kind of) functional language -- it's not THAT weird. Not like Haskell. 05:21:59 Haskell is _weird_. 05:22:00 *offby1* nods gravely 05:22:15 I always looked at problems in "linear view" before 05:22:21 oh 05:22:25 as far as I know, in Haskell, you _cannot_ write imperative code. In scheme, you _can_; it's just that we'll mock you. 05:22:37 But it'll be for your own good, you see. 05:22:48 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-150-239.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:23:14 yup ;) 05:23:17 :) 05:23:32 I really appreciate it 05:24:09 *rudybot* will mock you as well 05:24:47 dont just mock :D 05:24:59 but also show me the proper way 05:25:45 *offby1* pulls on his mocking gloves 05:26:51 where do I find the list built-in function in Scheme? 05:27:17 the documentation, naturally 05:27:20 depends on which flavor of scheme you're using, of course 05:27:58 oh I thought Scheme is only 1 thing 05:28:04 like Perl or python 05:28:14 rudybot: doc help 05:28:14 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/Interactive_Help.html#(form._((lib._scheme%2Fhelp..ss)._help)) 05:28:26 never knew that has flavors like linux 05:28:30 h4k3r: bad examples -- both Perl and Python have multiple implementations. But I take your point; and Scheme has _way_ more 05:29:00 offby1: perl doesn't really have multiple implementations 05:29:07 (and in practice, each of Perl and Python have one implementation that is clearly the official one ) 05:29:16 Elly: we may be saying the same thing. 05:29:30 It certainly doesn't have more than one that any sane person would use in production. (Some would put that number at zero :-) 05:29:48 I mean, there is no perl implementation anywhere near as complete as, say, IronPython/Jython/PyPy 05:29:52 h4k3r: But there really are a pile of serious Schemes. 05:30:00 serious business! 05:30:09 Elly: I heard a story once about Perl 6. It sounded shiny. 05:30:17 *offby1* heard this a long, long time ago 05:30:18 I'll do some research :) 05:30:28 rudybot: eval (banner) 05:30:29 *offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to MzScheme v4.2.2 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2009 PLT Scheme Inc.\n" 05:30:29 offby1: that is not a perl 5 implementation :O 05:30:39 Elly: dint say it was. 05:30:53 offby1: why must you hate :( 05:30:59 It's how I be 05:32:04 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 05:32:11 I see... 05:32:33 I have interviewed with half a dozen companies and none of them use scheme for anything 05:32:40 it is rather disappointing 05:32:46 If you interviewed with a hundred more, you'd find the same answer. 05:34:03 :( 05:34:08 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:16 what about other functional languages? 05:34:29 OCaml is gaining a bit of ground 05:35:47 *offby1* chckles 05:36:05 actually, I know a guy who is rumored to use, or have used, OCaml at work; I can't say the same for Scheme 05:36:24 I *will* use scheme at work :P 05:37:06 Secretly write important system utilities in scheme, thereby creating new job opportunities for future scheme programmers 05:37:35 Elly: you sound like Bart Simpson writing on the blackboard 100 times 05:38:02 :D 05:38:14 offby1: sort of! 05:38:31 Jafet: yeah, about that... 05:38:35 *Elly* looks around furtively 05:53:04 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:53:34 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 05:57:39 -!- gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:59:08 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:15:38 mngbd [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 06:16:49 -!- h4k3r [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-163-97.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:18:41 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:19:10 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 06:25:09 -!- mngbd [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit ["no reason"] 06:41:55 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:42:29 h4k3r [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-163-97.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:44:43 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:45:34 http://pastebin.com/m6f591e8f 06:46:05 im having problem with this code. I wrote the question there. 06:46:09 ..need help 06:46:40 i've debugged but couldnt find anything wrong :( 06:48:21 nvm 06:48:23 :) 06:48:25 i got it 06:48:41 forgot to add ( ) in else clause 06:48:52 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:49:00 wonder why the compiler didnt tell me syntax error ? 06:51:23 because it wasn't, probably 06:51:49 yep 06:52:20 your syntax is perfectly valid, you just called else as a function with those arguments 06:53:38 Elly, no 06:53:51 else is not called as a function. 06:54:27 the syntax used for else there is the function call syntax 06:54:39 "you just..." is me explaining the parser's point of view 06:55:28 Procedures don't get called out of syntax. 06:55:39 I know 06:56:03 You are forgetting that the cond form introduces syntax. 06:56:12 I am not forgetting that 06:56:30 I am trying to explain why the parser did not raise an error about missing parentheses 06:56:38 You said that "else is called as a function". It isn't. 06:57:00 02:54 < Elly> "you just..." is me explaining the parser's point of view 06:57:30 (x y z ...) is the syntax for "apply x to y z ..." 06:57:54 We have already established that it is not the case here. 06:58:38 the piece of code h4k3r is expecting an error from runs before macro expansion 06:59:07 so yes, it is - as far as the piece of code responsible for raising "unmatched parentheses" and similar doesn't care that COND introduces ELSE as syntax 06:59:25 The code did not have unmatched parentheses. 06:59:35 Whatever you're smoking now, I'd like some 06:59:49 :-s 06:59:56 totally lost 07:00:10 Each clause of a cond form can contain multiple expressions; the last one is returned. 07:00:25 The last such expression happened to be (new-symbol (cdr list)). 07:00:28 Work it out. 07:00:32 so why that else doesnt need ( ) 07:01:12 :) 07:01:21 thank you both for your help 07:01:23 :) 07:01:39 i'll come back to this channel tomorrow 07:01:41 :) 07:01:49 its 2:00 AM already 07:01:53 cya then 07:02:02 -!- h4k3r [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-163-97.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.15/2009101601]"] 07:02:12 ugh 07:02:18 it seems like I should go to bed as well 07:03:00 it is 0300 where my body thinks it is >.< 07:03:50 markharman [n=markharm@67.134.133.175] has joined #scheme 07:04:02 Hmm, I've read that sleep deprivation can lead to highs 07:04:18 only after way too long 07:08:11 aha! 07:08:15 Murphy has intervened! 07:08:21 -!- markharman is now known as markharm2009 07:11:27 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #scheme 07:12:45 -!- markharm2009 [n=markharm@67.134.133.175] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:15:58 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:18:56 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:39:50 d5r [n=d5r@77.35.230.64] has joined #scheme 07:44:09 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:44:50 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:45:43 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:59:23 -!- d5r [n=d5r@77.35.230.64] has quit [] 08:09:58 -!- Summermute [n=scott@98.204.67.114] has quit [] 08:24:16 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 08:31:37 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:31:48 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 08:42:26 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 08:50:37 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:51:04 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 08:52:01 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:59:51 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 09:03:08 -!- gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:07:50 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:19:09 wingo [n=wingo@94.Red-81-39-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:45:03 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 09:48:38 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 09:48:56 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:06:15 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 10:08:51 qu86elon [n=qu86elon@p4FFF21AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:09:03 hi all 10:09:48 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:12:34 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 10:17:00 -!- qu86elon [n=qu86elon@p4FFF21AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:40:33 penthief [n=matt@87-194-57-101.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 10:43:26 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:44:13 masm [n=masm@bl7-204-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:45:16 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:51:52 arnor [n=arnor@p4FFF21AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:52:02 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 10:52:46 hi 10:53:58 -!- arnor [n=arnor@p4FFF21AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:56:03 I've not used Scheme since my dissertation 2.5 years ago -- did R6RS ever take off or did the new standard just split the community? 10:56:41 it took off fairly well, and it split the community 10:59:17 Sod the traditionalists. Good to hear it got implemented. 11:11:53 -!- penthief [n=matt@87-194-57-101.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:18:59 Summermute [n=scott@98.204.67.114] has joined #scheme 11:27:40 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:28:09 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 11:29:00 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-204-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:40:01 -!- yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 11:40:10 yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 11:41:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@241-36-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:48:17 mngbd [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 11:55:27 -!- mngbd [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit ["no reason"] 12:00:16 ejs [n=eugen@250-110-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 12:11:16 jao [n=jao@80.31.223.187] has joined #scheme 12:15:11 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-62.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:22:01 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 12:22:04 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:27:01 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 12:28:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:31:08 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 12:35:12 samth_ [n=samth@c-76-24-220-170.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:35:42 -!- samth_ is now known as samth_home 12:36:26 -!- samth_home [n=samth@c-76-24-220-170.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:42:31 -!- Summermute [n=scott@98.204.67.114] has quit [] 12:43:24 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 12:43:48 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:32 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 12:48:00 clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 12:49:43 From: http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.5/changes.html 12:49:54 "If a header named in a #include directive is not found, the compiler exits immediately. This avoids a cascade of errors arising from declarations expected to be found in that header being missing." 12:50:05 It only took, what, 30 years to fix that? 12:50:48 Well, the usual thing for a compiler to do is to keep going as far as it can 12:52:06 "Compilation time for code that uses templates should now scale linearly with the number of instantiations rather than quadratically, as template instantiations are now looked up using hash tables." Time to tell the ocaml devs 13:00:32 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:02:36 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26:27 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:26:54 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-124.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:43:02 -!- wingo [n=wingo@94.Red-81-39-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:49:18 lol foof 13:49:45 i agree that is a stupid continuing error 13:50:00 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 13:51:27 now it'z time to tell the MSVC team it's ok to do the same... 13:56:43 tabbot [n=tabbot@202.83.42.67] has joined #scheme 14:02:10 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 14:03:55 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:09:53 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 14:17:25 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:21:03 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:30:22 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:30:51 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 14:33:57 masm [n=masm@bl7-204-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 14:35:17 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 14:37:03 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 14:45:53 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 14:48:29 SvekloB_ [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 14:50:57 -!- tabbot [n=tabbot@202.83.42.67] has left #scheme 14:55:36 SvekloB__ [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 15:06:31 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:07:02 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 15:13:40 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:18:13 -!- SvekloB_ [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:28:25 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 15:31:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.4/20091016092926]"] 15:46:27 -!- gribozavr [n=grib@2001:470:d4b6:1:215:f2ff:fe65:2d39] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:30 gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:18 -!- SvekloB__ [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:06:38 gribozavr [n=grib@2001:470:d4b6:1:215:f2ff:fe65:2d39] has joined #scheme 16:07:14 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 16:13:41 wow, people still use C? 16:14:46 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 16:15:18 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 16:21:32 I don't see many device drivers, kernels, numerical software or major scheme interpreters written in scheme 16:25:55 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-215-148-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 16:29:30 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:30:59 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-14-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:03 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:32:30 *offby1* squints 16:32:30 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-150-239.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:36:37 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:46:30 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 16:47:44 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:47:47 sladegen_ [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:50:36 -!- gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has quit [] 16:57:27 gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has joined #scheme 17:05:01 -!- gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has quit [] 17:09:33 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:03 Adrinael [i=adrinael@rib4.kyla.fi] has joined #scheme 17:14:43 -!- Adrinael [i=adrinael@rib4.kyla.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 17:19:49 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 17:27:17 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:47 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 17:30:13 Jafet: Most serious Scheme compilers are written in Scheme. 17:35:14 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 17:39:57 Since when does ls(1) ignore case and punctuation prefixes? 17:43:05 foof: your locale affects that 17:43:12 look at LANG 17:43:33 believe it or not, I've come to prefer that behavior 17:43:35 *offby1* ducks 17:43:38 huh 17:44:08 If I'm looking through a long list of files, trying to find a single particular file, I hate having to remember whether the first letter in that file's name is capitalized 17:44:30 zsh spellcorrects 17:44:40 so does bash 17:44:44 I've come to prefer that behaviour 17:44:46 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 17:44:51 It totally f*cks with the unix tradition of capitalizing special files. 17:44:52 in fact, both shells might simply be deferring to readline 17:45:03 foof: it does indeed. As I said, I've come to prefer that. 17:46:34 I could maybe get used to that, but mixing in dot-files is just broken. 17:46:56 foof, what about interpreters? 17:47:25 Scheme48, and the Chicken and Gambit interpreters are written in Scheme. 17:47:43 One Windows-ism that I have _not_ gotten used to is: sorting "folders" (i.e., directories) before files. 17:47:47 Ok, I guess that's mainstream enough 17:49:04 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:52:14 offby1: Actually, I prefer that behavior. Directories go in a different bucket in my brain than files; I rarely want to see the folder named "bar" and the document named "baz.txt" next to each other. Of course, OS X messes up my expectations on this issue no matter what I do, thanks to directories-which-are-files. 17:55:58 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:56:26 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 18:03:13 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 18:04:18 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:15 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:38 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:13:25 -!- sladegen_ is now known as sladegen 18:16:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-62.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:19:09 mrm [n=mmourato@94.41.17.72.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #scheme 18:21:29 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-78.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:28:01 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 18:29:08 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 18:29:55 eni_ [n=eni@ASt-Lambert-153-1-56-110.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:30:06 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:30:16 -!- eni_ is now known as albacker 18:31:06 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 18:34:52 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:35:04 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:36:36 yf-is-fyf [i=c66cc528@gateway/web/freenode/x-hngaoiebociogfes] has joined #scheme 18:44:00 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:35 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-204.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:52:18 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:17 Revenger [i=4ad387b7@gateway/web/freenode/x-snafcvnscywdcktk] has joined #scheme 19:01:20 hi 19:01:46 how to set a initial value for a parameter of a procedure 19:02:20 like function hahah(int a, int optional_param = 23) in C 19:02:21 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@65.243.31.107] has joined #scheme 19:02:35 how to do it in Scheme ? 19:02:46 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 19:02:55 c allows that? I thought only c++ did 19:03:06 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-155-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:03:12 yeah C++ 19:03:44 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:03:45 but thats not important, the important thing is how to do it in Scheme :) 19:04:50 any suggestion? >< 19:04:52 Revenger: Some schemes allow DSSSL syntax: (define (foo a #!optional (optional-param 23)) ...) 19:05:09 It's not standard, although pretty trivial to do yourself 19:05:10 Im using DrScheme 19:05:23 I couldnt do it 19:05:27 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:05:36 like I want to use hahaha(1) 19:05:39 only 19:05:54 All schemes support dotted tail notation: (define (foo a . rest) ...) where all rest args are put into a list in REST 19:05:59 Have you ever programmed before? 19:06:22 just known scheme for few days 19:06:28 jar__ [n=jar@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:06:49 Well, better learn to spell, at least 19:06:49 -!- jar__ [n=jar@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #scheme 19:07:02 Oh, you mentioned C++ 19:07:30 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 19:07:32 sjamaan: can you explain a bit more sjamaan 19:07:41 Revenger: What would you like to know? 19:07:42 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 19:07:50 . rest 19:08:06 it would be great if you provide a full example :) 19:08:07 You can write a wrapper that deals purely with putting arguments in the correct place 19:08:10 thank you 19:08:12 If you call foo like (foo 1 2 3 4), a is bound to 1 and rest is bound to the list (2 3 4) 19:08:20 towodo [n=jar@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:08:22 oh ok 19:08:28 :) 19:08:29 You can use any name you like, not just rest 19:09:09 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:09:28 rudybot: eval ((lambda (a . r) r) 1 2 3) 19:09:30 sjamaan: your sandbox is ready 19:09:30 sjamaan: ; Value: (2 3) 19:09:33 see? 19:09:56 yeah 19:10:15 i tested #!optional 19:10:20 Did it work? 19:10:36 reader epxressions not currently enabled 19:10:44 rudybot: eval ((lambda (a #!optional (r 5)) r) 1) 19:10:44 sjamaan: error: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: # in any of: (#) 19:10:48 heh 19:10:56 incubot: eval ((lambda (a #!optional (r 5)) r) 1) 19:10:57 Error: unbound variable: :optional 19:11:17 im using DrScheme 19:11:22 A good advanced exercise is to implement it yourself 19:11:26 rudybot is running the same software 19:11:31 (more or less) 19:12:05 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:09 Jafet: if i could, I would have not been here to ask for help 19:12:25 Revenger: With the knowledge of dotted rest notation you can now implement it yourself 19:12:43 yup I'mma give it a try :) 19:12:44 ty 19:12:47 yw 19:20:30 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-77.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:14 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 19:24:49 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:26:51 i got an problem 19:27:19 if I : (define ( function firstarg . rest)) .... 19:27:39 when i called (function 1 2) , it worked fine 19:28:04 but when I called (function 1) , it didnt work :( 19:28:26 nope, you are mistaken, try again 19:28:26 Revenger: What do you think the value of REST will be when you call it like that? 19:28:33 heh leppie 19:28:36 () 19:28:42 Right 19:28:50 Can your code handle that situation? 19:29:03 so (null? rest ) 19:29:22 :| sorry Im not sure if I got it right 19:29:31 lol, to me as an implementer it only has to work past applying the procedure :p 19:29:41 :) 19:30:47 man, this week has been busy for IronScheme, traffic wise, seems InfoQ.com brings in lots of traffic 19:31:06 IronScheme for .NET? 19:31:14 yes Revenger 19:31:22 :) 19:31:28 that's my little baby 19:31:37 so it can take advantage of .NET framework right? 19:32:05 no, it is built on the CLR, and uses parts of the framework 19:32:20 and it natively supports any .NET construct 19:32:54 Jafet, `I don't see many...major Scheme interpreters written in Scheme.' Can you name a `major Scheme interpreter' *not* written mainly in Scheme? Of course the core of any interpreter will be written in some other language, in order for it to be executable independently of a prior Scheme system -- but that is the case whether the interpreter be a Scheme-specific evaluator, or whether the `interpreter' be your physical x86 mach 19:33:05 if only I could make .NET play nice with a native Scheme, I would problem stop right there with IronScheme :] 19:33:18 s/problem/probably/ 19:33:51 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:33:52 but it is all fun and learning at the same time 19:34:04 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:13 Riastradh, bytecode translators, optimizers, program loaders, debuggers 19:34:16 compiler vs interpreter 19:34:22 which one is harder to build? 19:34:36 Jafet, sorry, what? 19:34:55 i think the two of you don't agree on what a 'scheme interpreter' is 19:35:15 Are those part of "the core" you speak of? 19:35:49 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:50 Jafet, no, the core is the part that actually interprets a language, not the libraries that the language uses or the utilities operating on the language. For example, in a Scheme implementation running on the physical x86 machine on your desk (or PowerPC, or whatever) with a native-code compiler, the core of the interpreter is the stuff on silicon that executes the x86 ISA. 19:37:50 Naturally there must be something there written in a language other than Scheme; it's not turtles all the way down. (But similarly, although a C compiler may be written in C, the interpreter that executes its output won't always be -- generally that interpreter will be a physical machine.) 19:38:05 those little 1's and 0's 19:38:09 What the hell are you talking about 19:38:35 :| 19:38:43 scheme-interpreter scheme-compiler.scm -i scheme-compiler.scm -o scheme-compiler 19:38:50 There, a scheme compiler completely in scheme 19:38:57 You can do the same for an interpreter. 19:39:12 But I get the feeling you're trying to brush me off, so I'll stop. 19:39:17 Well, no. An interpreter can't be circularly hosting. 19:39:39 Deep down, Maxwell's equations govern the interpreter that makes the silicon interpreting your x86 ISA work. 19:40:43 But in any case, you claimed that you didn't see any `major Scheme interpreters' written in Scheme, and unless you mean `interpreter' in this sense (in which case it tautologically won't be written in Scheme), I wondered what major Scheme systems you had in mind that were not written mainly in Scheme. 19:41:52 how many pure Schemes actually exist? 19:42:11 most active ones need some kind of glue 19:42:14 What's a `pure Scheme'? 19:42:25 completely written in Scheme 19:42:37 needs a Scheme to compile itself 19:42:51 Most Scheme systems need an existing Scheme system to build. 19:42:52 But who will compile the compilers? 19:43:02 no C stubs etc 19:43:20 I mean like raw 19:43:21 Well, are you talking about something that doesn't interact with C APIs at all? If so, that's a little silly. 19:43:50 just asking, im sure it would be a fruitless effort given what needs to be done 19:44:09 In that case, either it's tied to a particular operating system's notion of system calls (or a set of operating systems' notion of system calls), or it can't interact with the outside world. 19:44:40 ok, in that case, are there any that qualify? 19:44:42 But whether a Scheme system has any C (or Pascal, or whatnot) code in it at all is very different from whether its computational aspects are written mainly in Scheme. 19:45:09 ok I understand 19:45:22 big 'depends' :p 19:45:42 There is an R4RS Scheme interpreter whose core is written in x86 assembly and which runs as the language runtime for a proof-of-concept Operating System. 19:45:44 T, for example, has a little bit of C (or Pascal, on the Apollo) -- a couple dozen lines of C to call the operating system and linker and so on --, and a good deal of assembly code (mostly in-line in the T code), but most of it is written in T (i.e. Scheme). 19:45:55 T3, to be precise. 19:46:11 that rings a bell 19:46:57 *arcfide* goes poof. 19:48:05 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 19:54:12 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 19:57:14 eni_ [n=eni@ASt-Lambert-153-1-108-215.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:57:45 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:57:50 -!- eni_ is now known as albacker 19:59:25 T2 interpreter and gc were also written in T, I think 20:02:54 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:05:25 And T3, yes. 20:05:32 ...oh, hi. 20:05:38 You fooled me. 20:10:20 I mentioned T3 not to distinguish it from T2, but to distinguish it from later projects such as Sting and T on the Connection Machine, which ran as independent operating systems. 20:11:40 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:30 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:14:08 -!- yf-is-fyf [i=c66cc528@gateway/web/freenode/x-hngaoiebociogfes] has quit ["Page closed"] 20:20:34 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-42-90.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:26:53 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27:37 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 20:28:12 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:32:03 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 20:39:36 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:43:58 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:47:45 rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 20:48:20 -!- rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:48:35 rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 20:48:48 I cannot create the following list (HTDP example): (cons 'Mercury empty) 20:49:07 Probably MIT/GNU Scheme uses a different syntax for lists. 20:49:55 replace empty with '() 20:50:21 Thanks! 20:50:33 -!- rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:12 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 21:01:28 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 21:02:55 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:02 -!- dudleyf [n=dudleyf@65.243.31.107] has quit [] 21:07:33 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:09:14 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:13 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-124.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:22:00 gaze [n=gaze@c-67-170-217-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:28:02 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 21:36:31 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-77.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36:47 rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:10 Is car and cdr deprecated? 21:37:15 No. 21:37:54 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-77.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:54 I thought first/rest supersedes it (in some Scheme implementations). 21:38:16 Those are non-standard, and not many people use them as far as I know. 21:38:25 Ok, thanks 21:38:31 -!- rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:26 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-77.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has left #scheme 21:39:36 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-77.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:35 car/cdr seem to be a favourite to pick on for people who don't actually use the language 21:41:55 though first/second/... is kind of appealing in some cases 21:44:37 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@93.37.245.240] has joined #scheme 21:46:10 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 21:46:15 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:54:12 How do you express cadr then? 21:54:30 firest 21:54:32 :) 21:54:35 cadr 21:54:43 (actually, "second") 21:54:56 cdadr is more interesting 21:55:24 sjamaan: Well if that is second, what is cdr? 21:55:33 rest 21:55:35 rest 21:56:26 Either way 21:56:32 you can't compose those 21:56:42 true 21:58:27 chturne [n=chturne@host86-128-230-231.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:58:30 gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has joined #scheme 22:01:00 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:01:57 I've just done an exercise in the SICP in 4 different ways with 'null' representations, nil (how sicp does it), null, empty and '() ( () also works sometimes). Under DrScheme, some of the languages will accept some of the idioms, and other not. What's a 'best practise'? Cheers 22:02:56 Just '() and use the NULL? predicate. Those are standard 22:03:39 Ok, I guess these other variations are the teaching languages infestations. 22:04:28 Yeah, and some are historical 22:05:02 Are there still competing standards in Scheme? I've heard of R5RS and R6RS, I led myself to assume these are the main ones, whats the Scheme community views on standardisation as a concept? Because it doesn't on the face of it seem at all standard. 22:05:28 Suppose it's the Lisp heritage. 22:06:05 An R7RS is underway 22:06:51 There's also an IEEE standard that was recently renewed 22:07:39 I don't know what "the scheme community" thinks about standards 22:08:20 I see, thanks for your time sjamaan. 22:08:24 I think within the community there's a bit of a rift between people who think it's just fine that scheme systems implement their own incompatible stuff, and people who want an Enterprise Scheme that has many useful things to build apps with 22:08:45 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:09:19 As a newbie, I considered it a challenge to standardise a language like Scheme due to it's extensibility anyway :P 22:11:58 Note: Generally it is better to test whether a list is non-empty with PAIR? before taking its car and cdr, than to test whether it is empty with NULL? before deciding not to take its car and cdr. 22:12:02 -!- gaze [n=gaze@c-67-170-217-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:12:40 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-77.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has left #scheme 22:13:21 Hm, isn't that like saying (null? (cdr list)) ? 22:13:33 No. 22:14:23 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-149-77.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:10 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@93.37.245.240] has quit [] 22:15:48 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 22:16:46 Checking my reference documentation, I don't think I've come across a case where pair? would return false, it seems anything CONStructed is a pair 22:16:56 rudybot: eval (pair? '()) 22:16:57 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 22:16:57 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 22:17:14 rudybot: eval (pair? (cdr (list "fnord"))) 22:17:14 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 22:17:20 rudybot: eval (pair? (car (list "fnord"))) 22:17:20 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 22:17:35 The last one is the important one. Note that NULL? answers true for the first two questions, but false for the last one. 22:17:58 Oh, sorry Riastradh, I see why thats useful now :) 22:18:29 Thank you for the tip 22:19:32 It is better still to use SRFI 1's NULL-LIST? (which signals an error if the argument is neither a pair nor a list, which is helpful to expose mistakes). 22:23:55 -!- Revenger [i=4ad387b7@gateway/web/freenode/x-snafcvnscywdcktk] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 22:24:10 this SRFI is a standard for Scheme list librarys then? 22:25:18 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:31:22 So, thermodynamics makes time travel impossible. 22:31:22 Let's say I have a battery. 2 minutes later I put it in my time machine and beam it back 2 minutes. 2 minutes ago, I have a battery, and another appears. 22:31:31 Now I have 2 batteries. I put them in my time machine and beam them back 2 minutes. 3 batteries. It's an infinite energy generator. 22:31:53 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:32:03 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 22:32:12 So that... applies to continuations somehow, but I completely lost my train of thought. 22:32:33 Not if the battery's energy drains faster than you copy it. 22:33:52 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:36:57 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 22:38:06 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:38:15 *offby1* sadly sets fire to his time-machine blueprints 22:45:04 -!- chturne [n=chturne@host86-128-230-231.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45:25 gaze [n=gaze@c-67-170-217-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:47:35 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:19 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:49:59 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-124.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:50:40 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@98.222.133.165] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:51:05 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:52:40 Oops: constant-folding the operation that tags and returns the current heap pointer is not a good idea. 23:02:19 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:15 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-204.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:22 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-204.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:12:30 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:24:31 -!- albacker [n=eni@ASt-Lambert-153-1-108-215.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:27:38 nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 23:32:50 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:53 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:23 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 23:34:50 twopoint718 [n=chris@76.210.76.232] has joined #scheme 23:37:50 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 23:38:52 -!- twopoint718 [n=chris@76.210.76.232] has quit ["leaving"] 23:40:21 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 23:45:02 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 23:45:34 twopoint718 [n=chris@76.210.76.232] has joined #scheme 23:51:01 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:56:51 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:34 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-124.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme