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[n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:07:27 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:07:52 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:14:18 zbigniew: Possibly not the same cause. It's just the first I've ever heard of a computer not being compatible with a monitor. 03:15:45 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 03:17:55 http://www.ist.rit.edu/~jxs/jargon/html/C/connector-conspiracy.html 03:20:41 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:54 jcowan: A little different, since the MBP is _supposed_ to work with DVI devices (with the proper adapter). 03:23:16 jcowan: A friend and I today were just pondering the Torx. 03:24:25 *jcowan* has in the past pondered the Robertson 03:24:42 (like a Torx but square) 03:25:47 Of course, Americans are stuck with the two worst designs, slotted and Philips 03:35:03 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:03 03:35:03 -!- names: ccl-logbot jonrafkind MononcQc gnomon_ copumpkin saccade_ peddie_ schemer999 ASau mabes_ jcowan thesnowdog Mr_Awesome sepult tjaway annodomini gpaci CaptainMorgan hosh dmoerner mornfall jyujin Chris michaelw ponzao__ roderic Kusanagi mbishop cornbread Pepe_ offby1 lowlycoder _Jordan_ sjamaan ski ecraven metasyntax joast ray REPLeffect_ leppie synx emma snorble zbigniew hadronzo` kniu tltstc jao araujo jay-mccarthy sladegen kilimanjaro rdd 03:35:03 -!- names: tabe`` klutometis erg charleyb nickgibbon bohanlon dfeuer Adrinael rmrfchik duncanm rstandy incwolf_ dysinger m811 ejs saccade Fare nicktastique TR2N apgwoz nasloc__ dlouhy pookey Summermute foof leppie|work eno felipe xwl_ Poeir ada2358 lisppaste borism_ zeroish` mreggen nowhere_man untouchable tessier Elly EwS StucKman antoszka XTL thermal_ clog Axioplase elf aking yosafbridge stepnem incubot zeroish elmex rudybot tizoc Arelius cipher 03:35:03 -!- names: nothere chandler z0d acieroid ineiros samth_away rotty Khisanth eli makmanalp j0ni specbot minion rapacity Riastradh Leonidas p1dzkl r0bby brx poucet Armageddon00 guenthr linas C-Keen kazzmir TimMc certainty 03:42:59 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:46:55 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:38 tjafk [n=timj@e176193254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:58:28 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:00 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:08:18 -!- tjaway [n=timj@e176204185.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:09:34 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-54.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:30 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 04:34:17 -!- mabes_ [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:37:06 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@122.110.26.51] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:54:16 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 04:54:16 04:54:16 -!- names: ccl-logbot xwl_` ASau tjafk jonrafkind gnomon_ copumpkin saccade_ peddie_ schemer999 jcowan Mr_Awesome annodomini gpaci CaptainMorgan hosh dmoerner mornfall jyujin Chris michaelw ponzao__ roderic Kusanagi mbishop cornbread Pepe_ offby1 lowlycoder _Jordan_ sjamaan ski ecraven metasyntax joast ray REPLeffect_ leppie synx emma snorble zbigniew hadronzo` kniu tltstc jao araujo jay-mccarthy sladegen rdd tabe`` klutometis erg charleyb nickgibbon 04:54:16 -!- names: bohanlon dfeuer Adrinael rmrfchik duncanm rstandy incwolf_ dysinger m811 ejs saccade Fare nicktastique TR2N apgwoz nasloc__ dlouhy pookey Summermute foof leppie|work eno felipe Poeir ada2358 lisppaste borism_ zeroish` mreggen nowhere_man untouchable tessier Elly EwS StucKman antoszka XTL thermal_ clog Axioplase elf aking yosafbridge stepnem incubot zeroish elmex rudybot tizoc Arelius cipher nothere chandler z0d acieroid ineiros samth_away 04:54:16 -!- names: rotty Khisanth eli makmanalp j0ni specbot minion rapacity Riastradh Leonidas p1dzkl r0bby brx poucet Armageddon00 guenthr certainty TimMc kazzmir C-Keen linas 04:54:17 Hey everyone, MIT Scheme works! 04:54:24 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 04:55:55 omg 04:56:05 stop the presses 05:05:58 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.168.253] has left #scheme 05:07:01 Base 640? 05:07:01 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:09:36 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:16:20 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:25:19 How in Git can I say `git annotate foo.scm' with the proviso that I want to see the state of foo.scm prior to commit #xdeadbeef? 05:26:14 I think this bug has actually been sitting in MIT Scheme for about twenty years. 05:26:36 ... 05:27:06 How can constant-folding addition of two integers not been noticed? 05:28:11 Well, when I type it at the REPL, it's just the interpreter that runs what I typed, which doesn't do any constant-folding. 05:28:47 But that's even weirder. 05:28:53 KMASTR3 [n=Remote@199.103.54.216] has joined #scheme 05:29:11 What is different is that * is not open-coded here. 05:29:25 Whereas it has always previously been open-coded, because that's the obvious thing to do. 05:29:33 So some out-of-line code that was probably never run has a bug. 05:29:37 *foof* sees no *'s 05:29:46 Oh, sorry, the * happens inside STRING->NUMBER. 05:29:49 (* 1 2) yields 640. 05:29:52 ...excuse me, 128. 05:29:59 (which is correct, except for a factor of 2^6) 05:30:06 (I mean: `modulo 2^6') 05:30:25 (Gee, a technically correct use of the idiomatic `modulo', and I go and botch it by substituting a different idiom.) 05:32:30 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 05:35:49 stupid git diff always uses the pager, even when piped to cat :/ 05:36:40 s/\(stupid git\).*/\1/ 05:37:13 maybe 'PAGER= git blah' would fix that? 05:37:25 Yikes! 05:37:28 PAGER isn't set 05:37:36 ...oh, there's a space there. 05:37:47 I read: PAGER='git blah' 05:38:35 That would indeed be terrifying. 05:40:33 oh, it's just in eshell that git commands don't work 05:40:47 and there's no command-line option to disable the paging :/ 05:46:44 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:48:17 the solution appears to be magit 05:49:06 oh yay, gambit is using 3GB RAM :/ 05:49:22 ... well, gcc on the gambit generated code 05:53:41 No surprise there. 05:55:55 *sigh* 05:56:03 software is such crap 05:57:30 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:58:07 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 05:58:38 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 06:04:24 -!- KMASTR3 [n=Remote@199.103.54.216] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:05:53 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:09:48 mejja, you'll like this: 06:09:51 1 ]=> microcode-id/compiled-code-type 06:09:51 ;Value: x86-64 06:09:51 1 ]=> (+ 1.0 2.0) 06:09:51 ;Value: #[floating-vector 3 3.] 06:09:51 1 ]=> (flo:vector-length (+ 1.0 2.0)) 06:09:54 ;Value: #x-63ffffff 06:10:41 Yes, I like: "1 ]=> microcode-id/compiled-code-type ;Value: x86-64" 06:11:31 Earlier I had (+ 3 4) ;Value: 7, (+ 3 10) ;Value: 643 06:11:46 Turns out that bug is actually in the i386 back end, but in code that nobody ever runs. 06:12:10 Aha...! 06:12:15 *mejja* needs coffee 06:12:22 (You can tickle it by binding COMPILER:OPEN-CODE-PRIMITIVES? to #F while compiling something that calls *; e.g., you can get (* 1 2) to yield 128 that way, which is actually the right value, modulo 2^6.) 06:14:22 This floating-point bug is, bizarrely enough, due to the stupidity of m4 whereby `eval' computes 32-bit signed integer arithmetic. 06:14:40 I'll let those of you who aren't familiar with the system boggle furiously over that. 06:15:01 You use m4? 06:17:39 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-yavolcwasvazypgz] has quit ["Page closed"] 06:28:46 gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #scheme 06:29:53 -!- nickgibbon [n=nring@210.8.201.244] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:32:25 blowmage [n=blowmage@63-248-12-62.static.sdyl0420.digis.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:41 -!- blowmage [n=blowmage@63-248-12-62.static.sdyl0420.digis.net] has left #scheme 06:33:45 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-qlxpqifmkslvluro] has joined #scheme 06:37:17 proq` [n=user@71-20-201-84.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #scheme 06:37:31 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:37:49 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- tizoc [n=user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- nothere [n=nothere4@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-241-241.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- TimMc [n=TimMc@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- certainty [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- C-Keen [i=ckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- kazzmir [n=kazzmir@98.202.86.149] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:38:09 untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has joined #scheme 06:38:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:39:24 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:39:53 C-Keen [i=ckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #scheme 06:40:00 certainty [n=david@hades.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 06:40:45 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-241-241.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:40:48 elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has joined #scheme 06:40:49 aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has joined #scheme 06:40:51 acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #scheme 06:40:51 TimMc [n=TimMc@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 06:40:56 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:40:56 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 06:41:30 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:41:56 kazzmir [n=kazzmir@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 06:42:27 -!- proq` is now known as proq 06:42:58 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 06:43:19 nothere [n=nothere4@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:43:52 tizoc [n=user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 06:44:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 06:57:44 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:58:57 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:59:48 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #scheme 07:01:29 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 07:30:26 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:30:57 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 07:31:16 wingo [n=wingo@94.Red-81-39-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 07:46:53 sleepydog [n=user@136.244.234.71] has joined #scheme 07:47:03 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 07:52:12 I'm wondering if anyone can help me. I'm trying to write a depth-first-search algorithm to generate a maze, but the results aren't what I expected. 07:52:26 The offending function is here http://paste.lisp.org/display/89542 07:52:37 and the output looks like this http://imgur.com/2xzVT 07:58:37 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 07:58:43 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 08:05:55 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@91-89.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:14:43 schmir [n=schmir@p54A921AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 08:15:06 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 08:15:36 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 08:17:47 -!- xwl_` is now known as xwl_ 08:20:10 ASau [n=user@77.246.230.247] has joined #scheme 08:26:35 -!- wingo [n=wingo@94.Red-81-39-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:26:47 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:28:58 -!- proq 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[n=masm@bl7-37-137.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 13:41:46 xwl [n=user@123.115.119.166] has joined #scheme 13:42:27 BlueHotDog [n=none@94.230.81.35] has joined #scheme 13:42:35 hi 13:43:50 any one mind helping me in the following problem, i need to write a function which gets some list, for example: (a (b c) d) and should ouput the following: 13:44:00 (push d) 13:44:03 (push c) 13:44:07 (push b) 13:44:11 (apply 1) 13:44:15 (push a) 13:44:18 (apply 3) 13:44:41 any clues would be helpful.. 13:44:51 BlueHotDog, 1- make it a recursive function. 2- examine the base case 13:45:01 BlueHotDog, I recommend HtDP.org 13:45:13 try reversing the list first also. 13:45:33 the last one should probably be apply 2, unless b is a function that returns 2 values 13:46:10 you are right, its apply 2.. 13:46:51 (good luck to handle multiple return values with such a compiler) 13:47:25 i thought doing this as follows, my base case is (if my cdr is not a list, then i should return 'push (my car)) 13:47:49 but i'm unable to figure out the full recursion.. 13:48:06 ...what does apply do? 13:49:01 nothing, just a syntext, it's some abstraction of some programming language.. 13:49:38 Obviously if it does nothing, it isn't necessary 13:49:41 So it must do something 13:49:54 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 13:50:42 its an abstract question, the input list should be transformed to the result list. 13:50:56 apply represent application of previously pushed arguments 13:51:34 BlueHotDog, first, you need a collector 13:51:39 Obviously it's a stack language, and (apply n) does something to the stack, and I don't know what it does. 13:51:48 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 13:52:01 Blue: some closure that accumulates results that subroutines output 13:52:41 Jafet, it takes the head of the stack as a procedure, calls it with n arguments. 13:53:00 Ok, so the input is a lisp expression 13:53:27 Jafet: a Lisp-1 language with no multiple-value returns 13:53:33 (apparently) 13:53:59 FareWell, i already tried that.. got no where.. 13:54:00 There are more salient things left unspecified than multiple value returns 13:54:07 BlueHotDog, I'd say talk to your TA 13:54:22 BlueHotDog, you need help 13:54:39 No, he just needs to think hard. With some pencil and paper. 13:54:51 he needs to rewind his HtDP and start earlier 13:55:44 mmm 13:55:56 push appends to the innermost list. apply turns some elements into an inner list. 13:56:37 BlueHotDog, what text book are you using? where do you study? 13:57:16 I'm mostly using the info provided in class.. 13:57:42 Jafet, you mean i should use some accumulator? 13:57:56 Jafet, because i think its solvable without one. 13:57:56 you seem to have skipped some of the important information / insight from previous classes 13:58:25 Playing at a handicap? I don't recommend such things 13:58:39 BlueHotDog, my solution of a "collector" is just a way to have an implicit accumulator 13:58:44 You can of course just do the recursion directly with implicit accumulation 13:59:28 maybe you can write the answer in COBOL, then tuck in a COBOL interpreter and hand the result as a solution... 13:59:31 FareWell, thats exactly what i'm trying to do.. 14:00:04 lol, no.. i want to figure this out.. 14:00:10 You paint a very happy PICTURE there 14:01:23 i have the sulution idea, the only problem is to trunsfer it to code.. 14:02:11 if (list? (car item)) run with car item 14:02:30 if(list? (cdr item) run with cdr item 14:02:37 else return push item 14:02:47 something like that, no? 14:03:21 cdr is always a list 14:03:49 mm, you're right, then if (not (null? (cdr list))) 14:05:32 maybe now that mit has switched to python, other channels can enjoy homework questions 14:06:24 I thought it switched to java 14:06:36 -!- FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:07:24 i'm not an MIT student.. 14:08:26 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #scheme 14:09:17 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:09:39 thats it? no-one willing to discuss this with me? 14:09:57 You're not discussing anything 14:10:30 no, you're right, i'm asking for guidance.. 14:12:20 and ignoring it. 14:12:24 FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:12:59 Heh, plt calls itself a language construction kit or something 14:17:44 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:21:39 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-245.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 14:24:11 mrm` [n=mmourato@94.41.76.198.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #scheme 14:26:04 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 14:28:06 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:28:29 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #scheme 14:30:02 chupish [i=182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-qqynsbxhmpkljfvf] has joined #scheme 14:31:05 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 14:34:36 BlueHotDog: Maybe the TA will discuss this with you. 14:39:04 I'm wondering if anyone can help me. I'm trying to write a depth-first-search algorithm to generate a maze, but the results aren't what I expected. 14:39:07 The offending function is here http://paste.lisp.org/display/89542 14:39:11 and the output looks like this http://imgur.com/2xzVT 14:40:00 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."] 14:40:09 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #scheme 14:40:24 what does push! do? 14:40:45 and disconnect! 14:41:17 push! pushes an element onto a list, like lisp pushf 14:41:37 disconnect! removes the edge between elements in the graph data structure 14:41:51 do you really want to push to the argument of the lambda? 14:42:09 the whole file is here http://github.com/sleepydog/plt-gridsearch/blob/master/graph.scm 14:42:11 i would suspect not. 14:42:33 bweaver [n=user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:42:54 I'm trying to collect visited vertices in a list as I go along with my recursion 14:43:04 try expanding out push! and seeing if you see it :) 14:43:12 ok 14:43:57 *offby1* has (somewhere) a maze generator in PLT, if that would be of interest 14:44:44 plt should get its own channel. 14:45:03 offby1: it would. I wrote a grap visualization/search program for my professor to use for his class, and the more graph generation functions the better :) 14:45:24 I'm surprised it doesn't have its own channel 14:45:32 *offby1* searches 14:45:38 how many people would be left? 14:46:40 at least 40 or so. 14:46:44 that would be ok. 14:47:05 hmm, not as bad as I thought 14:49:15 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 14:49:20 -!- xwl [n=user@123.115.119.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:59 sleepydog: I've found it, but it's more than one file ... and I don't know how to conveniently publish that :-| 14:50:03 I can tar it up, but then it's binary 14:50:15 I could email it 14:50:50 offby1: I just need the core algorithm. What do you use? depth-firstt-search? Kruskals? 14:50:56 hell, I dunno 14:50:58 lemme see 14:51:10 offby1: tar it & use drop.io? 14:51:31 lisppaste first file, put the rest in annotations? 14:51:43 don't you have a github thingy anyway? 14:52:20 chupish: "drop.io", eh? I shall investigate 14:53:18 offby1: well, it's simple for one-off things such as this 14:53:27 sleepydog: http://drop.io/srtcfnb 14:53:33 chupish: so it seems! Thanks for the suggestion. 14:53:46 no problem 14:56:01 thanks! 14:56:35 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 15:01:20 -!- FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:07:23 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 15:11:00 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:36 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:32:10 mheld [n=mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:32:40 -!- mheld [n=mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 15:33:17 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 15:38:24 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:39:38 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 15:39:49 -!- sleepydog [n=user@136.244.234.71] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:42:57 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:51:01 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 16:05:08 jeapostrophe [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:15:14 Axioplas1_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 16:26:11 webframp [n=webframp@unaffiliated/webframp] has joined #scheme 16:30:53 gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #scheme 16:33:13 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:33:52 -!- chupish [i=182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-qqynsbxhmpkljfvf] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 16:34:57 gribozavr [n=grib@2001:470:d4b6:1:215:f2ff:fe65:2d39] has joined #scheme 16:50:41 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:54:06 m_ondkalb [n=walking_@80-218-163-77.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme 16:54:16 -!- m_ondkalb [n=walking_@80-218-163-77.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #scheme 16:54:19 -!- ejs [n=eugen@170-4-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:57:02 -!- bweaver [n=user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:57:06 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 16:57:51 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 16:58:09 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:21 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:03:32 -!- hadronzo` [n=user@ppp-70-251-67-83.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:07:27 ejs [n=eugen@241-36-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:53 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:12:45 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.230.247] has quit ["off"] 17:19:01 ratelle [n=jeremie@dsl.speedline209.250.electronicbox.net] has joined #scheme 17:22:03 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:23:44 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bovsjsdddpzffios] has joined #scheme 17:26:23 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:29:07 -!- mrm` [n=mmourato@94.41.76.198.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has left #scheme 17:29:40 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:40:27 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:41:20 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:41:25 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:46:19 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:49:35 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fhnqcsnhnhalnqsi] has joined #scheme 17:57:20 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bovsjsdddpzffios] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:58:53 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:00:04 zbigniew, oh dear. It is a crime against humanity, as the reporter so aptly puts it: . 18:03:05 Note: Although that is merely a link to a Register article, you do *NOT* want to view either video to which it refers. 18:03:36 Can you provide an adequate description of the video to remove the temptation of curiousity? 18:03:39 I'd say NSFW, but it's more like NSFCMS (Not Safe for Continued Mental Stability). 18:03:58 Well, you can follow the link; there's no harm in that. 18:04:08 As I said, just a Register article. 18:04:12 I did so, in elinks, and my curiousity was not satisfied. 18:04:41 try lynx or wget 18:04:48 Let me put it this way: It will bing your brain. 18:04:55 Riastradh: holy God 18:05:28 You're not helping, zbigniew. 18:05:50 I think you mean `Holy elder mother of Cthulhu!', zbigniew, but even that hardly approaches the heinousness of this. 18:05:53 (Riastradh, for what it's worth, I've managed to never see more than the first 15 seconds of "bing goes your sanity", or whatever that's called) 18:06:12 the Register has basically degenerate to trolling as a strategy for ad dollars 18:06:51 Adamant, I believe you could probably say the same thing about a discouraging majority of online "publications". 18:07:03 It has ads? 18:07:05 gnomon: bloggers are one thing 18:07:19 incubot: what rough bing, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Microsoft to be born? 18:07:22 Hmm, I guess far on the right-hand column halfway down the page there's a `Sponsored links' section. 18:07:23 now if bing is Big and your main code, and bar is just a small parameter 18:07:39 The Register is probably the worst in the IT press at least 18:07:45 -!- wingo [n=wingo@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:16 I suppose Slashdot doesn't count as `press', then. 18:14:16 no 18:14:33 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:14:33 it's sort of a proto-blog weird thing along the lines of Digg or Reddit 18:16:00 goto [n=goto@p54A772B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:01 proq [n=user@71-20-201-84.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #scheme 18:24:05 Why is (list 'A (cons 'I empty)) and (cons 'A (cons 'I empty)) not the same? :/ 18:24:21 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:24:40 CONS and LIST are not the same. 18:26:46 goto: you are considered harmful 18:26:49 (cons 'A empty) and (list 'A) is the same. or has the same evaluation 18:29:08 goto, yes, but (cons A 'empty) and (list 'A empty) don't. 18:29:26 More generally, (list x y ...) = (cons x (list y ...)), and (list) = empty. 18:29:49 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:30:33 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-173.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:43 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-173.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:36:33 mngbd [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 18:41:11 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:48:20 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 18:50:04 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:02:26 -!- mngbd [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit ["no reason"] 19:10:03 arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-226-104.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:45 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:11:33 1 ]=> (* -1 2) 19:11:34 ;Value: 4503599627370494 19:11:48 ? 19:12:12 Well, it's almost the right value. 19:12:22 Did I miss something? 19:12:45 It's just got about fifty-six bits that are set when they shouldn't be, and the remaining couple are flipped. 19:13:01 (sort of) 19:13:24 (Obviously, that would mean that they're all flipped, but that's not quite right either.) 19:13:25 Riastradh: Is this a new, Dr. Seuss Scheme you are making? 19:14:31 No, it's not a new Scheme at all. 19:14:40 What you missed, I suppose, is 19:14:41 1 ]=> microcode-id/compiled-code-type 19:14:41 ;Value: x86-64 19:16:51 This is MIT Scheme, right? 19:17:03 Yes. 19:17:07 Is that a native compiled code type or for the C Back End? 19:17:19 For the C back end, that value would be the symbol `C'. 19:17:30 Oh....well... 19:17:42 MIT Scheme is going 64-bit, then? 19:17:56 Oh, it has already run on plenty of 64-bit platforms. 19:18:16 For about fifteen years, in fact, with a brief hiatus of about ten. 19:18:32 I mean: since about fifteen years ago, with a brief hiatus during that time of about ten. 19:19:17 Well, yes, but... 19:19:18 The current C back end has run on 64-bit machines for about three years now. 19:19:37 But yes, I'm writing a native x86-64 back end. 19:19:40 when are we going to see nice native code compilation for x86_64? 19:19:58 Will it be fast? 19:20:01 :-P 19:20:11 Of course it will be fast -- faster than the C back end, certainly. 19:20:32 I could start pushing this today, but it is probably still full of bugs, and it doesn't open-code any primitives yet. 19:20:44 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 19:23:00 Indeed. Actually, I've been tempted with an offer to write inter-module optimization in Chez Scheme, but I'm not sure I want to get into all that compilation stuff. Are you doing this out of necessity or for enjoyment? 19:24:22 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #scheme 19:32:41 wingo [n=wingo@94.Red-81-39-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:39:40 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:40:37 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 19:40:50 TR2N [i=email@89.180.164.218] has joined #scheme 19:41:07 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:42:11 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:43:20 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:45:13 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 19:46:37 -!- ratelle [n=jeremie@dsl.speedline209.250.electronicbox.net] has left #scheme 19:49:06 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:52:14 saccade_ [n=saccade@18.188.73.161] has joined #scheme 19:56:11 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:11:14 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:08 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #scheme 20:19:25 jar286 [n=jar@30-16-246.dynamic.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:21:15 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:24:41 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 20:29:23 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-226-104.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 20:34:14 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:34:21 Riastradh: push it! 20:34:30 -!- BlueHotDog [n=none@94.230.81.35] has quit [] 20:35:41 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:36:27 Soon, mejja. 20:39:18 foof: ping 20:39:28 mejja: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4onJ7Z2MLI 20:40:04 jar286_ [n=jar@31-34-38.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:40:45 -!- goto [n=goto@p54A772B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 20:41:23 -!- jar286 [n=jar@30-16-246.dynamic.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:41:24 -!- jar286_ is now known as jar286 20:41:26 Given LET-VALUES, is there any reason not to consider RECEIVE obsolete? 20:41:58 Adding two pairs of parentheses (easily done by a syntax-rules macro) will get it back in SRFI-8 but not SRFI-11 environments. 20:41:59 Yes. RECEIVE is more convenient for human use. 20:42:36 I very seldom encounter cases where I should like to use LET-VALUES in hand-written code (i.e., not in the expansion of hairy macros). 20:43:42 Even though (RECEIVE formals expr . body) is exactly (LET-VALUES ((formals expr)) . body)? 20:43:46 Yes. 20:44:05 Please elucidate. 20:44:11 RECEIVE is less cluttered. 20:44:18 *mejja* sneezes at MV 20:45:20 And do you also defend old-style DO on the same grounds? 20:46:24 let-values is much more of a pita for the user to implement herself than receive 20:46:52 not sure how that bears on the discussion tho 20:46:54 I've had the multiple-value feature at my fingertips since 1984 and always feel filthy when i use it 20:46:55 DO, even the old-style DO, has more parts anyway than RECEIVE, so it is not as defensible. 20:47:24 i love multiple values. i feel dirty sometimes but maybe love is like that sometimes? 20:47:28 poderables, these 20:47:32 *ponderables 20:48:08 I like it in principle & have implemented it & lobbied for it... still don't like it in practice 20:48:28 heh. 20:49:04 A case could be made for the structure of MIT Scheme's old TRANSMIT-VALUES `procedure', in which LAMBDA is still syntactically the binding construct, unlike RECEIVE. 20:49:27 Aside from that, though, I like RECEIVE as is, and use it all the time. 20:49:54 Riastradh: i find myself just using call-with-values when i earlier would have used receive -- dunno why tho 20:50:24 In recent memory I can remember one case for which I wanted to use LET-VALUES rather than RECEIVE, but I don't remember what that case was. 20:51:05 -!- yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 20:51:08 call-with-values and friends would read better if lambda was written with fewer characters, like quote... (did i say that?) 20:51:31 careful jar286 or you'll standardize something by accident ;) 20:51:52 yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 20:52:27 i guess i will have to invent a new irc name for myself if i want to say things like that. 20:53:26 *wingo* just kidding of course. it's good to see you around, jar286. 20:54:05 i know who two of you are, but i don't know who wingo is. so i'm at a disadvantage. 20:54:38 jar286: my name's andy wingo. i co-maintain guile. 20:55:03 i came up to you at the ilc earlier this year to introduce myself in a rush and then ran out, so you might have forgotten. 20:55:07 mejja, Edwin's running now. Let's see whether *parser and the XML parser work. If they do, I'll start committing rather than playing further with fate and open-coding more primitives. 20:55:14 you know i don't attend conferences & workshops & don't know many people who are active now 20:55:28 at least i thought that was you (?) 20:55:57 i didn't got to ilc but i was at the scheme workshop. i have awful memory for names 20:56:26 What? You went to the ILC this year, jar286, or I didn't either. 20:56:29 oh yes i was at ilc! 20:56:33 it was here! i forgot 20:56:44 While the lack of syntax in Scheme is being put forward as one of its strengths, I'm sure many have noticed that the same lack of syntax can make a program harder to read (harder to distinguish various elements -- for example, what is a function application and what is a macro/special form?). I've always been interested in what one could do with richer typography in the source code editor, but most of all, what one could do with colorisat 20:56:46 ion of code. 20:56:53 i forgot that it was called that. 20:57:08 I suppose walking down a flight of stairs might not seem much like attending a conference! 20:57:16 right 20:59:01 well anyhow wingo sorry i didn't remember. 20:59:16 np, it was very brief. 20:59:57 so quite understandable :) 21:00:54 Riastradh pasted "Edwin seems happy on native x86-64" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89572 21:01:11 Riastradh, congrats 21:01:31 yeah congrats! 21:01:40 so you can edit really big files... 21:02:05 Well, that has been the case for a while, since Guillermo Rozas revived the C back end. 21:02:22 bigger than 4G? 21:02:36 On 64-bit machines, yes. 21:02:45 ever done it? 21:03:23 I suppose I haven't directly tested it, but that's mainly because I don't have any 64-bit machines with more than 4 GB of RAM. 21:03:28 For that matter, I don't have any 64-bit machines period. 21:04:25 If you have that much RAM, though, I don't think there's any reason for buffers exceeding four gigabytes to trouble Edwin. 21:04:52 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1"] 21:05:07 (GC time shouldn't be affected; the contents of buffers are not moved by the Scheme GC.) 21:05:14 in emacs anything bigger than 50m takes a noticeable amount of time to load... but that's only 2 orders of magnitude away... hmm 21:05:57 Yes, it will take some time to read in the file, since Edwin doesn't do any mmapping. 21:06:16 does emacs mmap? i thought not. 21:06:24 race conditions with truncation, etc. 21:08:16 Race conditions with truncation? 21:08:54 if you truncate a file on disk, the kernel gives you a SIGSEGV when you access previously-valid pages 21:09:15 That's no good. Is that a bug on, say, Linux, or is that standard behaviour? 21:09:18 (i think.) 21:09:19 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@89.190.42.46] has joined #scheme 21:09:21 i think that's standard. 21:09:38 but there are linux truncation-related bugs. 21:09:45 as well. 21:10:22 That's pretty brain-damaged. Where is this documented? 21:11:08 POSIX says `It is unspecified whether modifications to the underlying object done after the MAP_PRIVATE mapping is established are visible through the MAP_PRIVATE mapping.' 21:11:49 (are the posix specs themselves online?) 21:12:20 21:12:38 Riastradh: you seem to be right (as usual :) 21:13:59 wow... sometimes there is progress... too bad it's all rights reserved with no license given 21:14:04 About what? That such behaviour is brain-damaged? I don't think I claimed any particular semantics, and it looks like POSIX leaves this territory full of nasal demons. 21:16:27 it seems emacs enables mmap or not based on system type, and on linux it does not appear to be enabled. 21:17:05 ubuntu-nathan [n=Nathan@200.142.160.182] has joined #scheme 21:17:29 i could be misinterpreting of course.. 21:17:38 Hi for all! 21:17:44 *ubuntu-nathan* is back! 21:18:10 this irc thing is quite a scene... had no idea 21:18:27 first time here 21:19:06 -!- jar286 [n=jar@31-34-38.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [] 21:19:08 -!- peddie_ [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:12 :) 21:19:12 peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:22 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:41 wingo: If by "implement RECEIVE/LET-VALUES for yourself" you mean "reinvent the SRFI implementation(s)", then I agree. 21:20:46 Riastradh: I don't understand what you mean by saying that RECEIVE doesn't lambda-bind. 21:21:00 jar286 [n=jar@30-16-246.dynamic.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 21:21:07 For RECEIVE you don't write LAMBDA. For TRANSMIT-VALUES you do, but only for the purpose of binding, not twice as in CALL-WITH-VALUES. 21:21:34 Oh, I see. 21:22:46 jcowan: yes, that is what i mean. perhaps you want better error reporting, for example. the srfi-11 implementation uses that nasty string trick with syntax-rules. 21:23:08 LET-VALUES should certainly be built-in syntax. 21:23:10 but my syntax-case code is much nastier, so... 21:23:46 Riastradh: built-in, as in "in the stock standard" ? 21:23:48 It has no definition that preserves the unspecified order of evaluation. 21:24:00 That is, no definition in terms of other constructs such as CALL-WITH-VALUES, RECEIVE, &c. 21:25:08 indeed. 21:25:11 I think of the "nasty string trick" as standard, but perhaps that's because I am merely eccentric (in part). 21:25:50 well it's either the string trick, or helper macros, or syntax-case -- and none of them are nice all of the time. 21:25:59 or other systems of course. 21:26:16 Helper macros plus some sort of module system for information-hiding would be my choice. 21:26:19 The `string trick' is pretty silly. There is no legitimate reason to use it. 21:26:28 jcowan: it is a nice choice, yes. 21:26:57 *wingo* uses "nice" too much. 21:27:01 -!- peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:27:02 Regardless of which, I have copied the SRFI implementation directly into the (very tiny) fork of chibi I am currently maintaining. 21:27:30 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-183.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:38 (I would like to fix Chibi so that when there's a syntax-rules expansion error it tells you what it couldn't expand.) 21:29:57 peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:18 Unfortunately, the syntax-rules implementation appears to be rather brittle. 21:33:35 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:36:26 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:37:25 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:58 jar286: Welcome! 21:40:14 (somewhat belated, but I just noticed you said you've never been here before) 21:43:21 SvekloB_ [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 21:45:40 -!- ubuntu-nathan [n=Nathan@200.142.160.182] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:49:51 -!- SvekloB_ [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:38 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:51:02 X[z]X [n=none@94.230.81.35] has joined #scheme 21:51:27 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [] 21:51:56 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:52:11 hi guys, i'm having a problem with some scheme code, could someone help me out? 21:53:12 (define ass3 21:53:12 (lambda (list) 21:53:12 (cons 21:53:12 (begin 21:53:12 (if (null? list) null) 21:53:12 (if (pair? list) (ass3 (cdr list))) 21:53:14 (and (pair? list) (list? (car list)) (ass3 (car list))) 21:53:16 ) 21:53:18 (cons 'push (if (pair? list) 21:53:20 (car list) 21:53:22 null))))) 21:53:24 this is the function 21:54:01 wich should return for the input '(a (b c) d) ((push d) (push c) (push b) (push a)) 21:54:08 but it doesnt.. 21:55:35 lisppaste: url 21:55:35 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 21:55:42 Please use lisppaste to paste more than four lines here, X[z]X. 21:55:55 will do.. 21:56:07 should i re-pase? or is it o.k for now? 21:56:33 paste in the bot so people can add annotations. 21:57:16 x[z]x pasted "push code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89574 22:00:11 projections [n=projecti@85.101.60.152] has joined #scheme 22:00:40 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 22:01:00 bohanlon_ [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:01:23 anyone? 22:01:55 -!- projections [n=projecti@85.101.60.152] has left #scheme 22:02:46 X[z]X, when you evaluate (begin (if (null? list) null) ...), that doesn't have any effects, and doesn't affect the value of the program. (BEGIN ) evaluates and ignores its value, and then proceeds to evaluate . 22:03:16 Since (if (null? list) null) has no side effects, it's a useless expression -- you could just take it out of the program. 22:04:02 ohh, darn it, so if i cant use begin, how should i do it? 22:04:05 More to the point, your begin...if construct is clearly meant to be a COND, but it doesn't work like one. 22:04:40 but cond will only evaluate on expr, i need them to be evaluated one by one.. 22:06:27 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:11 dmoerner [n=dmr@91-89.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 22:07:39 maybe i should replace it by 'and'? 22:08:11 If you want to build a complex list out of appending several of them, you can use the following idiom: `(,@(if (foo? bar) '(an-element another-element) '()) ,@(if (baz? quux) ...)) 22:08:45 mmm, just a sec, will give it a try.. 22:13:17 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:35 Riastradh, i just cant seem to figure out how to make this simple thing work.. 22:18:37 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:24 damn, it just wont work.. 22:24:27 any other ideas? 22:24:41 Break it into smaller problems and solve them individually. 22:24:55 Or, be more specific about what `won't work' means. 22:25:06 lol, already did.. the only problem is to accumulate the result. i cant print it just fine.. 22:25:22 If you've changed the code, please annotate your lisppaste so that we can see the most recent edition. 22:25:38 mmm, just a sec... 22:25:56 x[z]x annotated #89574 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89574#1 22:26:35 First, break the line and reindent, so that we can actually read the code. 22:26:39 That is, rather than: 22:26:40 proper indentation will help you think. 22:26:45 `(,@(foo),@(bar),@(baz)) 22:26:46 write 22:26:48 `(,@(foo) 22:26:50 ,@(bar) 22:26:52 ,@(baz)) 22:27:03 yeah, your right.. sorry 22:27:07 ...um, excuse me: put one more space before each of the last two lines. 22:27:19 Or, just do what Emacs does. 22:28:40 x[z]x annotated #89574 "some progress" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89574#2 22:31:27 And what happens when you try to use it? 22:31:47 for the input: '(a (b c) d) the result is: 22:31:53 Generally, when you have a problem like this, you must specify (1) exactly what you typed, (2) exactly what you saw, and (3) exactly what you expected to see. 22:31:54 ((push . #) (push . d) (push . #) (push . c) (push . b) (push b c) (push . a)) 22:32:12 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 22:32:24 What should happen if LIST is not a pair? 22:33:23 mmm, if its not a pair? nothing i guess, that means i've reached the end, dousnt it? 22:34:35 Well, in the code (cons 'push (if (pair? list) (car list))), you haven't told Scheme what value the IF expression should yield, which is the argument that will be passed to CONS. 22:35:03 If the condition is false, then Scheme will choose some random value. In your case, Scheme chose a value that looks like #. 22:35:05 ohh, so i guess i should put the entire cons inside the if 22:35:19 just a sec.. 22:35:25 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:35:34 In general, an IF with only one branch, sometimes called a one-armed IF, should be used only when its solitary branch is used only for effect, not for value. 22:36:38 peddie_ [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:57 wow, thanks for all the tips Riastradh 22:38:05 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:29 -!- jar286 [n=jar@30-16-246.dynamic.csail.mit.edu] has left #scheme 22:40:03 i've put the cons inside the if.. but now i recive an error, just a sec, will paste the most recent version.. 22:41:11 x[z]x annotated #89574 "err" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89574#3 22:41:17 the error is: 22:41:25 unquote-splicing: expected argument of type ; given ("push" . c) 22:42:11 Well, you can't use APPEND (which is what ` and ,@ do) on an improper list. 22:42:26 ("push" . C) is an example of an improper list. 22:42:46 but when do i generate an improper list? 22:43:26 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 22:43:38 Well, where does "push" occur in your code? 22:44:25 only on one place, but how come the fact i've moved the cons inside the if couses this error? 22:45:55 never mind.. 22:45:58 fixed it.. 22:46:10 seems like a good prograss.. 22:46:17 now i'm getting: 22:46:22 (push d push c push b push (b c) push a) 22:47:13 the code is: 22:47:30 gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #scheme 22:47:35 x[z]x annotated #89574 "almost good.." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89574#4 22:48:13 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:48:53 x[z]x annotated #89574 "done!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89574#5 22:49:02 If (pair? list) is true, then the IF reduces to `(push ,(car list)). Now `(... ,@`(push ,(car list)) ...) is just like `(... push ,(car list) ...) -- that's what the `splicing' of UNQUOTE-SPLICING refers to. 22:49:21 Also, ,` is redundant. 22:49:49 Riastradh,its almost done.. 22:50:08 now i need to add an apply.. but i think i will manage this on on my own.. 22:50:26 thanks for the help Riastradh! 22:50:44 and even more, thanks for the information! 22:50:52 good night.. 22:53:01 -!- X[z]X [n=none@94.230.81.35] has quit [] 22:53:07 -!- gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has quit [] 22:54:05 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:54:56 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:03:38 -!- peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:09:45 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:10:55 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:12:46 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 23:22:35 schmir [n=schmir@p54A905BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:23:41 gpaci [n=gpaci@gpaci-02.dsllan.toad.net] has joined #scheme 23:28:10 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:29:06 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 23:29:28 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-169-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:32:52 mongooseWA [n=mongoose@c-67-161-84-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:33:08 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:33:11 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 23:33:21 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-169-28.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:34:58 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A905BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:50 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:48:52 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:52:25 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 23:54:57 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:55:54 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme