00:03:44 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:03:44 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04:00 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 00:05:03 rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 00:05:59 When I try using the "symbol=?" operation, I receive an error about it being an unbound variable. 00:06:19 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:06:22 MIT/GNU Scheme Release 7.7.90.+ || Microcode 15.1 || Runtime 15.7 || SF 4.41 LIAR/C 4.118 || Edwin 3.116 00:06:34 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 00:07:42 Also, when I try to use a cond expression, I receive several errors, the last of which is: ";Unbalanced close parenthesis: #\]" 00:10:22 -!- gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:24 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-36-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:15:03 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:15:11 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 00:17:39 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:20:31 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:20:50 Use eq? for comparing symbols 00:20:50 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 00:24:03 Balance your parentheses, and maybe avoid [ ] as they are not 100% portable (I'm not sure how MIT Scheme handles it) 00:26:02 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:30:35 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:30:58 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 00:36:07 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:38:04 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 00:38:49 minion: memo for jcowan: The `tmp' directory is not (just) for unfinished work; rather, it is an indicator that the URI is not permanent, possibly because the work is unfinished, possibly because it is just a temporary test case that doesn't need to last, possibly because it is not even my work but I needed to transmit it to someone, &c. 00:38:49 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:38:49 Remembered. I'll tell jcowan when he/she/it next speaks. 00:38:50 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:39:04 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 00:39:22 rouslan, SYMBOL=? is not defined in MIT Scheme; EQ? works on symbols, however. 00:39:40 rouslan, as for the parse error, you'll have to show the code on which MIT Scheme choked. 00:51:21 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:51:39 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 00:58:32 dnm [n=dnm@68.49.47.248] has joined #scheme 00:58:49 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-38-67.vinet.ba] has quit [Operation timed out] 01:01:13 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:03:47 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 01:07:33 -!- dnm [n=dnm@68.49.47.248] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:07:55 dnm [n=dnm@68.49.47.248] has joined #scheme 01:08:35 -!- Summermute66 [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:09:55 -!- seamus_android [n=alistair@212.183.140.20] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:11:40 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:11:54 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 01:12:23 -!- jedc [n=jedc@c-67-171-246-227.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:12:47 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:12:54 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 01:15:35 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:16:12 ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has joined #scheme 01:16:59 -!- dnm [n=dnm@68.49.47.248] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:07 pumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:18:17 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:18:32 -!- pumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29:51 pumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:56 -!- ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:31:24 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 01:31:40 peter_13 [n=peter_13@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:44 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:33:51 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 01:39:41 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:39:42 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:40:32 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 01:45:10 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:47:50 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 01:51:30 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:54:55 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:36 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:48 -!- rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 01:57:01 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:57:20 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:28 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 01:59:01 kupad_ [n=kupad@209-166-22-96.client.dsl.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:41 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:01:04 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 02:10:13 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:10:44 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 02:13:11 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:13:42 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 02:21:20 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:21:33 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 02:24:24 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 02:35:41 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-167-76.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:40:36 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:40:44 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 02:46:09 *offby1* is hunting down #scheme denizens, one by one. Who shall be next? 02:46:09 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:24 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 02:47:34 offby1: huh? 02:47:43 offby1, my vote is for ASau` 02:47:48 *offby1* rubs hands together evilly 02:47:52 *Elly* casts Mind Blank on herself 02:47:57 schemer999: I've met three of 'em in person. 02:48:21 wow. that puts you in cambridge or bay area then :) 02:49:06 schemer999: not at all. I live in Seattle and am in NYC at the moment 02:49:08 There is a bay in his area, I suppose... 02:49:29 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:49:50 Gee, I didn't expect this exchange could be so embarrassing for schemer999. 02:52:19 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:30 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 02:52:47 tjaway [n=timj@e176212207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:54:34 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:03 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:08:26 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176205075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:26 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:08:43 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:09:22 -!- tjaway [n=timj@e176212207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:28 tjaway [n=timj@e176212225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:12:05 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:16:48 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:17:16 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:19:38 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 03:34:24 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:19 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:35:53 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:39:11 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:39:35 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:39:38 cky [n=cky@166.165.236.43] has joined #scheme 03:44:04 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 03:48:06 Does anybody use foof-loop's IN-FILE iterator? I just noticed that it has an undocumented, non-obvious, and ill-considered constraint, that the loop always continue to the end so that the final bindings be made. Otherwise, the input port for the file will never be closed. 03:48:06 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:48:32 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 03:48:45 ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has joined #scheme 03:53:02 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:53:09 Google Code Search doesn't turn up anyone using it. 03:54:24 schemer999 [n=schemer9@76.90.137.46] has joined #scheme 03:54:24 -!- ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:54:56 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:57:59 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:58:37 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:02:28 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:02:46 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:05:37 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:05:54 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:10:33 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:11:04 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:12:30 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:12:41 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:25:34 Foofie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #scheme 04:25:34 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:25:51 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:28:50 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:29:24 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:29:35 -!- peter_13 [n=peter_13@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 04:32:22 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32:32 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:33:58 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:34:04 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@76.90.137.46] has quit [] 04:39:35 -!- kniu [n=kniu@ELMUNDO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:39:36 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:40:16 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:40:28 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 04:43:03 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:43:24 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:44:43 -!- ada2358 [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:44:47 ada2358 [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 04:52:32 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 04:52:32 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:53:05 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:56:44 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:56:46 minion: memo for jcowan: Your proposed `inexact' module should be called `transcendental' unless it is meant to do more than provide a few procedures for transcendental functions, which may well have exact definitions (for example, using continued fractions). 04:56:46 Remembered. I'll tell jcowan when he/she/it next speaks. 04:58:11 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:58:11 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:58:47 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:04:42 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:04:56 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:10:51 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:11:06 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:14:14 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:39 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:16:09 -!- cky [n=cky@166.165.236.43] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 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it refers to when the function is evaluated 12:20:19 (define lazyfunc (arg1 . arg2) 12:20:19 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:20:46 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:21:04 hmm 12:21:33 well.. 12:22:07 morphir: lazy is like wrapping an extra lambda around an expression; this delays execution of the expression till you actually call the lambda 12:22:11 Scheme uses strict evaluation 12:22:42 sometimes parts of the function may only be evaluated if the second argument is provided. So that is why I see the connection between them 12:23:42 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:24:02 ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has joined #scheme 12:24:32 morphir: You don't need extra arguments for that. You can also decide to evaluate parts of the function based on the value of its only argument 12:25:00 -!- ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:05 (lambda (x) (if (> x 1) "ok" (error "This is not evaluated unless you pass x <= 1"))) 12:25:11 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:27:02 sjamaan: I thought dotted pairs within a function arguement ment optional arguments 12:27:10 but I see your point there 12:27:11 yes, they do 12:27:33 I'm just saying the presence of optional args has nothing to do with laziness 12:28:18 I digress :) 12:28:18 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:28:50 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:29:38 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:30:28 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 12:31:34 for reference; Im reading this article http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~sinclair/blog/a_functional_game_loop_for_glut_in_scheme_using_continuations 12:31:35 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:36 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yhguyup 12:31:56 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:32:56 Laziness is purely a property of how evaluation is done 12:33:33 for a guy that is working on the little schemer, that article is a bit too advanced 12:33:56 morphir: Come back to it after the seasoned schemer 12:33:56 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:33:58 yet, I want a repl with glut/opengl 12:34:16 ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has joined #scheme 12:35:10 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 12:35:24 heh. I got the reasoned schemer here too. But I dont know if my keyboard got the "triple-equal-char" 12:35:27 :P 12:35:58 reasoned schemer reminds me more of formal math than scheme 12:36:20 You can download the code for minikanren 12:36:21 Proper programming is mostly applied math 12:36:22 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 12:36:25 -!- ASau` [n=user@91.76.59.232] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:36:28 I think it uses different symbols in code 12:36:48 The book just uses the triple-= for aesthetic reasons 12:37:03 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:37:33 -!- msg is now known as thesnowdog 12:37:40 +2261 identical to 12:37:50 php uses a == b; 12:37:54  12:37:59 and even a === b; 12:38:23 So does javascript 12:38:24 That's because PHP is sloppy like perl 12:38:38 The triple= is really the only comparison you ought to use 12:38:56 The double= causes implicit type conversion and is a source of weird bugs 12:38:58 if you want to be pedantic yes :) 12:39:03 What's , though, equals? 12:39:07 Not if you want to be pedantic 12:39:13 If you want to stay sane 12:39:40 If code correctness is pedantry... 12:39:41 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39:43 Because in PHP null == false == 0 == "" (and == "0", in some cases) 12:39:58 The meaning of == depends on the order of its arguments, too 12:40:08 It's a can of worms, trust me 12:40:28 Non-commutativity is awesome 12:41:45 (IIRC it coerces the type of the RHS argument to that of the LHS, so 0 == "" but "" != 0) 12:42:13 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:44:04 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:44:21 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:44:50 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:46:23 -!- ASau` 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16:14:45 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.160.122] has joined #scheme 16:17:14 Consider an object associated with a scarce resource, such as an object representing a file descriptor. There is a finalization procedure for this object, so that if it ceases to be referenced, the file descriptor will be released. Now consider an operation on the file descriptor's number: for the dynamic extent of this operation, the object must remain referenced so that the file descriptor is not released. 16:18:34 One might define a procedure (CALL-WITH-FILE-DESCRIPTOR-NUMBER ), which applies to 's number, and furthermore guarantees that as long as control can ever be in , will remain referenced and its finalization procedure not be called. 16:18:40 morphir [n=morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 16:20:30 One definition of C-W-F-D-N requires a construct that the implementation guarantees will not be `optimized away', such as a procedure NO-OP that does nothing with its argument, but will not be eliminated by the compiler. Then (dynamic-wind (lambda () (no-op fd)) (lambda () (procedure (fd-number fd))) (lambda () (no-op fd))) is an expression for a call to C-W-F-D-N. 16:21:38 Raising this up a little, one could define a general procedure to guarantee that an object be referenced for a dynamic extent, and one might name it WITH-OBJECT-REFERENCED. 16:22:38 Should WITH-OBJECT-REFERENCED be called like (WITH-OBJECT-REFERENCED ), and apply to the argument ; or should W-O-R be given an extra selector procedure, and evaluate ( ( )), since every use of W-O-R will always use some part of the object, not the whole object, anyway? 16:23:27 Then one could define C-W-F-D-N by: (define (c-w-f-d-n fd procedure) (w-o-r fd fd-number procedure)) 16:29:18 Obviously, the binary W-O-R is simpler, but I think the ternary W-O-R is more often useful. Each can be defined in terms of the other, of course. 16:30:18 That sounds like a job for an optional argument 16:31:03 That's more complicated than either. 16:31:26 It also gives the benefit of both 16:31:41 The only question is whether the extra complexity of a ternary W-O-R is worth the convenience. If it is, then there is no need to make the argument optional; pass VALUES if you want the original object. 16:32:03 It doesn't give any benefit of both. It gives the extra complexity of the ternary version without any added convenience. 16:32:39 Convenience for the implementor or the user? 16:32:57 joolean [n=julian@cpe-24-90-212-117.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:32:59 Either. 16:34:38 Excuse me: the binary W-O-R may as well apply to zero arguments. 16:35:58 If I've got a syntax-case macro that expands (x expr ...) to some other arbitrary form, is there away to prevent appearances of x that occur in subforms from being expanded? 16:36:17 I.e., I want to disable my macro during expansion of my macro 16:36:30 How are those forms suposed to be evaluated, then, joolean? 16:37:25 What *do* you want `x' to refer to inside the expansion of the macro? 16:38:02 Well, let me phrase that slightly differently 16:38:17 Let's say I've got a macro that expands (x expr ...) to (y expr ...) 16:38:58 I'd like to make it so that expanding (x (x foo)) produces (y (x foo)) 16:39:12 does that make any sense? 16:39:34 Now suppose Y is bound to a variable, so that the resulting form, (y (x foo)), follows the usual expansion and evaluation rules for procedure calls. How do you evaluate (x foo)? 16:39:42 That's how it normally works. If you (define-syntax x (syntax-rules () ((_ args ...) (y args ...)))) then (x (x foo)) -> (y (x foo)) 16:39:47 But what does `y' do? 16:40:32 rudybot: eval (define-syntax x (syntax-rules ((_ args ...) (y args ...)))) 16:40:33 chandler: error: eval:1:17: syntax-rules: bad syntax in: (syntax-rules ((_ args ...) (y args ...))) 16:40:39 rudybot: eval (define-syntax x (syntax-rules () ((_ args ...) (y args ...)))) 16:40:42 Not sure I understand what you're getting at -- my inclination is that's not my problem, it's up to the evaluator 16:40:54 rudybot: eval (define-syntax y (syntax-rules () ((_ arg) (quote arg)))) 16:41:00 rudybot: eval (x (x foo)) 16:41:00 chandler: ; Value: (x foo) 16:41:10 huh 16:41:12 okay 16:41:19 weird -- maybe my implementation is doing something weird, then 16:41:29 joolean, OK, so in that case, the evaluator will expand (x foo) into (y foo), and thus the whole form (x (x foo)) will become (y (y foo)). Of course, Y might not be bound to a variable; if it is bound to a macro, as chandler just demonstrated, you can get other effects. 16:41:35 If this *doesn't* work in your implementation, then something is seriously wrong. 16:41:43 Perhaps we could take a step back, and you could explain what problem you are trying to solve here? 16:42:12 Sure. And I'm a relative newcomer to syntax-case, so it's quite possible I'm misunderstanding things. 16:42:24 Leave `syntax-case' out of it. 16:42:55 But I'm trying to write a macro that expands the R6RS `library' form into a module definition for my Scheme interpreter 16:42:56 So far everything we have discussed is common to all Lisp macro systems. 16:43:00 fair enough 16:44:14 The problem that (I think) I'm having is that I'm defining a macro called `library' that expands forms that look like (library library-name (export . export-specs) (import . import-specs) library-body ...) 16:44:28 OK, and I suppose the issue is that you'd like occurrences of `library' inside the body to be bound to something from the library imports, or to be bound to nothing at all. 16:44:39 to nothing at all, actually 16:44:53 What if one of the imports binds `library'? 16:44:58 that's okay 16:45:09 then it can be bound to that variable during expansion of the body 16:45:27 I think the way you will have to solve this depends very much on the target module system, joolean. 16:45:33 certainly 16:45:36 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:45:38 but the immediate problem that I'm having 16:45:39 There is no standard way of binding an identifier to nothing at all. 16:46:02 is that `import-specs' can include forms that look like (library (library-name)) 16:46:07 You can bind it to a syntax that signals a `syntax-violation' if it is expanded. 16:46:21 Why is that a problem, joolean? 16:46:25 Why are you expanding inside the `import-specs'? 16:47:42 I'm only explicitly expanding the outer form -- but I'm getting matching errors about subforms 16:47:56 What does the expanded form of your macro look like? 16:47:58 lisppaste: url? 16:47:59 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 16:48:03 (If you need it.) 16:49:51 When I expand (library (foo) (export) (import (library (bar)))), syntax-case is complaining that `(library (bar))' is a syntax error because it doesn't fully match the pattern for `library' 16:50:42 You need to go step by step. Can you lisppaste either a single step of the expansion of that library form, before the expander has descended into subforms of its output; or the definition of your LIBRARY macro in the first place? 16:51:12 I'm not sure that I can. Let me poke around in my implementation. 16:51:17 *Riastradh* blinks. 16:51:29 Surely you can at least show the definition of your LIBRARY macro! 16:51:33 Oh, sure 16:52:14 Sorry -- I'm using a prelease of Guile 2.0, which has some debugging warts, though, so it's tricky to get detailed output of things like macro expansion 16:52:16 One sec. 16:54:32 joolean pasted "Syncase library form" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88839 16:55:11 At the very least, even if you can't straightforwardly ask for a single expansion step, you can redefine your macro so that its output is surrounded in QUOTE. 16:55:23 Yes, fair enough 16:55:27 I'll do that. 16:55:47 Well, your macro is trying to evaluate IMPORT-SPECS as if it were an expression. 16:56:32 Sorry, how's that? 16:56:56 It is not clear to me why you are using a macro at all here, rather than writing a front end to the compiler or loader that constructs the module. 16:57:07 Oh, I think I see 16:57:11 Your macro puts IMPORT-SPECS into the operand position of a procedure call. 16:57:41 Argh. *face-palm* 16:57:53 I must have changed that recently 16:57:55 Alright, thanks 16:58:24 Sorry, I've been working on this a little too long -- I've got tunnel vision 16:58:39 chandler, do you have any opinion on the signature of WITH-OBJECT-REFERENCED? 16:58:52 -!- joolean [n=julian@cpe-24-90-212-117.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 17:15:00 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:17:44 Riastradh: I'm not sure I understood what the three-argument form was for. Also, I'm concerned that any effort at this is doomed in the face of a Sufficiently Smart Compiler, and thus this probably needs to be a primitive exported by all implementations that also provide finalizers. 17:18:45 To your concern: of course. That's why I mentioned that the definition with NO-OP requires that the implementation guarantee that it not be `optimized away'. 17:18:45 The ternary form might have the following definition: 17:19:04 (define (w-o-r object selector procedure) (d-w (lambda () (no-op object)) (lambda () (procedure (selector object))) (lambda () (no-op object] 17:19:51 The reason is that generally the procedure is interested in dealing not with the object itself (if it were, the object would of course continue to be referenced), but with some part of the object that does not lead to a reference to the object, such as a file descriptor's number. 17:21:02 It doesn't seem to me that the selector is worth putting in the w-o-r procedure itself. In the case of file descriptors, it's just a structure field accessor, but it might be something more complicated or conditional, in which case I'll just write (w-o-r object (lambda () (procedure (if foo ...)))) anyway. 17:21:36 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.160.122] has left #scheme 17:22:13 Do you have any more concrete examples in mind? 17:22:23 Even in the simple accessor case, it seems less clear to me to write (w-o-r my-fd fd-number my-procedure) instead of (w-o-r my-fd (lambda () (my-procedure (fd-number my-fd)))) 17:23:14 No, I'm afraid I don't. 17:23:18 Often, the representation of resources will be split into a garbage-collectable object and a possibly not collectable descriptor, which contains enough information to release the resource, and usually contains the information needed to operate on the resource too. 17:23:21 I'm sure I could create one with some effort. 17:23:53 In the latter `usually' cases, the ternary W-O-R is most convenient. 17:24:12 But if the binary W-O-R is clearer, then I'll stick with that. 17:24:22 Also, it might be the case that the procedure I'm calling actually uses the "whole" object, but that I'm trying to inhibit some optimization that might cause it become unreferenced during the extent of the call to the procedure. 17:25:52 arquebus [n=shintaro@201.139.156.133] has joined #scheme 17:26:10 Is the name WITH-OBJECT-REFERENCED clear enough, by the way? 17:27:31 For the two-argument form where the second argument takes no arguments, yes. The three-argument form you proposed seems more like a CALL-WITH-OBJECT-REFERENCED to me. 17:27:43 Other options might include WITH-REFERENCE, WITHOUT-FINALIZATION, WITH-OBJECT-NOT-FINALIZED, and WITHOUT-OBJECT-FINALIZED. 17:28:55 I don't think any of those are preferable. WITH-OBJECT-REFERENCED is much more accurate than the first two, and I prefer it to the negative naming of the second two. 17:29:36 OK. 17:30:43 seamus_ [n=alistair@212.183.134.130] has joined #scheme 17:31:35 -!- seamus_ [n=alistair@212.183.134.130] has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:08 -!- gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:24 Nshag [i=user@193.248.203.163] has joined #scheme 17:41:23 chturne [n=chturne@host86-147-134-60.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:43:40 -!- slom [n=ibook@pD9EB7BD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 17:46:25 -!- seamus_android [n=alistair@212.183.140.17] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:50:05 -!- arquebus [n=shintaro@201.139.156.133] has left #scheme 18:21:55 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 18:22:03 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 18:39:03 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:42:48 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has quit ["so long.."] 18:43:13 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:29 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:06:39 meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:57 Hi 19:07:09 I was wondering how i could parse a list in scheme 19:07:23 for a specific index number 19:11:01 list-ref clist i -> value 19:11:02 [R5RS] Returns the ith element of clist. (This is the same as the car of (drop clist i).) It is an error if i >= n, where n is the length of clist. 19:11:04 srfi-1 19:11:23 (list-ref '(a b c d) 2) => c 19:12:04 so i have a list ("Dave Matthews" "CLAS" 2000000) 19:12:29 that is basically entries for a database 19:12:41 how can i parse the list to get the second entry 19:12:49 in this case "CLAS" 19:13:04 rudybot: (eval (cadr '("Dave Matthews" "CLAS" 2000000))) 19:13:04 C-Keen: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 19:13:19 metasyntax` [n=taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:13:31 rudybot: eval (cadr '("Dave Matthews" "CLAS" 2000000)) 19:13:32 C-Keen: your sandbox is ready 19:13:32 C-Keen: ; Value: "CLAS" 19:14:02 rudybot: eval (list-ref '("Dave Matthews" "CLAS" 2000000) 2) 19:14:02 C-Keen: ; Value: 2000000 19:14:07 rudybot: eval (list-ref '("Dave Matthews" "CLAS" 2000000) 1) 19:14:07 C-Keen: ; Value: "CLAS" 19:14:12 ah zero based 19:14:43 meme_: does that help? 19:15:12 meme_: you can also use first, second, third and so on 19:15:25 rudybot: eval (second '("Dave Matthews" "CLAS" 2000000)) 19:15:25 C-Keen: ; Value: "CLAS" 19:18:12 C-Keen: What exactly is cadr 19:19:02 r5rs cadr 19:19:02 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_404 19:19:04 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yhgfets 19:19:06 meme_, see that. 19:19:30 aack 19:19:39 thanks 19:19:43 why does rudybot trigger a notification 19:20:32 Clients are not supposed to automatically reply to notifications, but they may automatically reply to messages. 19:21:44 So by sending a notice, rather than a message, rudybot is following IRC's protocol for avoiding loops. 19:26:15 there are some nice lectures on youtube on scheme from MIT if i remember well 19:27:32 also the abelson, sussman lectures at archive.org 19:34:18 schmir [n=schmir@p54A90F76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:34:41 -!- gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 19:36:30 jonnay [n=user@d173-183-142-146.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 19:40:48 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:42:49 syntropy|desktop: Yeah, irssi apparently is set by default to beep on notifications. 19:43:12 Took me a while to figure out where the spurious system bells were coming from. 19:46:58 TimMc: Yeah same thing here. 19:50:18 -!- chturne [n=chturne@host86-147-134-60.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:50:41 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:54:45 syntropy|desktop: The setting you want to change is beep_msg_level in fe-common/core. Mine is set to "MSGS DCC DCCMSGS HILIGHT" 19:55:32 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:55:51 ve_ [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:58:40 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 20:12:18 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:12:19 -!- ve_ is now known as ve 20:18:40 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A90F76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:23:54 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 20:24:34 -!- untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:51 -!- meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:27:26 meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:47 -!- meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:28:11 meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:29:27 -!- meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:46 meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:33:22 -!- meme_ [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:45 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["-"] 20:44:41 lolcow [n=lolcow@dsl-243-13-101.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:59:06 -!- morphir [n=morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit ["leaving"] 21:04:26 meme_ [n=meme@137.54.22.197] has joined #scheme 21:04:35 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:08:40 untouchable [i=untoucha@129.64.166.32] has joined #scheme 21:42:07 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 21:52:41 -!- meme_ [n=meme@137.54.22.197] has quit [] 21:54:33 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-67-112-204-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:55:44 meme_ [n=meme@137.54.24.228] has joined #scheme 21:59:44 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:00:35 kupad_ [n=kupad@dsl254-079-179.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 22:00:46 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-134-4-48.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 22:01:04 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-4-204.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:01:10 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 22:07:05 -!- optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 22:10:04 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:49 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-38-159.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:18:02 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:19:34 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 22:22:42 Baconizer [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has joined #scheme 22:31:38 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-50.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:51 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:40:16 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-67-112-204-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:40:59 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 22:46:47 schemer999 [n=schemer9@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:04:00 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-199-147.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:07:12 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053EA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:07:32 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 23:10:00 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 23:10:10 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:52 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 23:26:26 sobber [n=sobber@ip24727.lbinternet.se] has joined #scheme 23:27:23 nickgibbon [n=nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 23:27:36 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:28:24 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 23:34:09 -!- jonnay [n=user@d173-183-142-146.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:35:23 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:36:39 -!- sobber [n=sobber@ip24727.lbinternet.se] has left #scheme 23:40:43 jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@cpe-69-205-162-163.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:50:15 -!- jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@cpe-69-205-162-163.stny.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 23:52:23 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 23:59:08 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit []