00:02:49 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:16 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:52 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:20:21 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:37:53 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:38:05 charmless [n=charmles@207.47.213.196] has joined #scheme 00:40:46 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:44:34 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 00:47:31 -!- charmless [n=charmles@207.47.213.196] has quit [] 00:48:15 charmless [n=charmles@207.47.213.196] has joined #scheme 00:48:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:51:16 -!- charmless [n=charmles@207.47.213.196] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:53:23 -!- pfo_ [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Success] 01:01:01 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:03:27 araujo [n=moz@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 01:09:10 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:10:33 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:12:02 meme [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:12:25 hi playing around with scheme 01:21:04 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ilxapddgsuhlaity] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:25:09 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 01:28:06 BACOON [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has joined #scheme 01:29:12 charmless [n=charmles@207.47.213.196] has joined #scheme 01:35:52 -!- masm1 [n=masm@bl10-244-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:36:01 -!- Baconizer [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:36:17 -!- BACOON is now known as Baconizer 01:52:30 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 01:59:17 zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:58 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:14:47 -!- arcfide [i=1000@140-182-224-144.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 02:17:08 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:19:47 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 02:27:50 rbf_ [n=robby@c-68-51-72-31.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:19 MononcQc [n=mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:28:59 -!- charmless [n=charmles@207.47.213.196] has quit [] 02:35:07 c0c0b0ng0 [i=hk@190.75.203.188] has joined #scheme 02:35:17 I've heard scheme is hella fun! 02:36:39 Scheme is a pretty cool guy, eh gets his thunder stolen by Clojure and Haskell and doesn't afraid of anything 02:38:04 I like languages that doesn't afraid of anything! 02:38:11 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:38:45 But seriously, the even teach in programming classes at the MIT 02:38:52 So is hella useful 02:38:57 At least must be 02:39:09 you shopping around? 02:40:24 What do you mean? 02:40:41 #haskell and #scheme :) 02:40:58 all the cool kids know both 02:41:19 Darki [i=Darkstar@87.181.90.180] has joined #scheme 02:42:37 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 02:43:24 I'm just asking questions dude :D 02:43:36 wasn't criticizing :) 02:50:20 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:52:35 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176198237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:52:55 -!- Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B5597A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:57:24 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:04:16 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 03:08:12 -!- Baconizer [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:08:18 Baconizer [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has joined #scheme 03:09:27 -!- Baconizer [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:09:34 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176209191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:37 Baconizer [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has joined #scheme 03:13:08 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 03:23:07 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:24:22 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 03:26:15 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.89.65] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:28:13 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 03:30:58 -!- MononcQc [n=mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING NEXT VERSION OF INTERNET"] 03:35:17 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:35:32 -!- Baconizer [n=baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:39:12 seanstickle [n=seanstic@c-68-33-221-168.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:44 Does every system just deliberately ignore the "please don't spam me" checkboxes they provide? 03:40:06 Yes. Any other questions? 03:40:19 -!- seanstickle [n=seanstic@c-68-33-221-168.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:43:21 Hmmm.... I wonder if I can make money by complaining about it, getting some apology that it was a bug which is now fixed, then providing documented proof of a new user getting the same bug and sueing them? 03:45:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:53:23 -!- Guest38526 [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:54:33 -!- ray [i=ray@drong.notacat.org] has quit [Operation timed out] 03:57:43 incubot [i=incubot@72.51.35.14] has joined #scheme 03:58:16 ray [i=ray@drong.notacat.org] has joined #scheme 04:12:48 -!- c0c0b0ng0 [i=hk@190.75.203.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:09 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:15:42 twobitsp1ite [n=isaac@li24-165.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 04:21:04 optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 04:26:22 -!- twobitsprite [n=isaac@li24-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection 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07:59:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:59:59 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme 08:06:44 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 08:14:40 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:15:29 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:17:32 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 08:23:38 -!- optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:23:49 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:24:25 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:25:31 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-tonuenvfrmjyfilu] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 08:34:14 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-rcahngooclqsyush] has joined #scheme 08:46:01 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:46:35 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:54:37 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:55:13 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-157.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 09:04:32 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:04:59 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-65.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:21 incubot: i've missed you all terribly; quotidian life has not yet extinguished the faustian flame scheme-olatry, though it presents an array of bedazzling sirens 09:06:26 I wonder whether there are any more Pizza Hut in Wellington. They may have all been extinguished by Hell. 09:09:34 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-157.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:13:18 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 09:26:22 -!- slxix [n=randy@203.205.117.57] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:26:58 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:33:56 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 09:59:24 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 10:01:36 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:04:35 masm [n=masm@bl10-244-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:11:30 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:11:50 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:13:15 -!- acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:13:20 acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #scheme 10:16:25 c0c0b0ng0 [i=hk@190.75.203.188] has joined #scheme 10:25:29 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:31:30 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:31:34 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054A76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:34:04 jao [n=jao@80.24.4.74] has joined #scheme 10:36:25 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:50:33 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:03:30 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-15-87.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:24:08 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 11:30:02 Alice_I_W [i=stepnem@server1.bshellz.net] has joined #scheme 11:33:06 ASau` [n=user@host17-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 11:38:12 -!- c0c0b0ng0 [i=hk@190.75.203.188] has quit [] 11:38:35 -!- ASau [n=user@host17-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:47:00 aLeSD [n=alex@ppp-220-240.21-151.libero.it] has joined #scheme 11:47:07 hi all 11:47:07 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 11:48:50 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-164.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:54:53 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:56:27 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:02:14 -!- emmy [n=em@cpe-98-14-154-71.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:28 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 12:16:09 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:21:00 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:21:12 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 12:23:41 -!- rbf_ [n=robby@c-68-51-72-31.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:04 swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has joined #scheme 12:28:51 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:29:03 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 12:29:42 *swathanthran* just started reading sicp 12:33:25 i can't understand exercise 1-6(http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-10.html#call_footnote_Temp_36).. the solution on a site(http://community.schemewiki.org/?sicp-ex-1.6) says its because the new-if does it in applicative order and old if does it in normal order... is that a difference between cond and if or what? 12:33:27 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ybatbw2 12:36:02 swathanthran: no, the difference is that one evaluate it's arguments and the other does not. 12:36:06 *its 12:39:14 swathanthran: take this example: 12:39:34 rudybot: eval (define (new-if predicate then-clause else-clause) 12:39:34 (cond (predicate then-clause) 12:39:35 Leonidas: your sandbox is ready 12:39:35 (else else-clause))) 12:39:36 Leonidas: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 12:39:57 rudybot: eval (define (new-if predicate then-clause else-clause) (cond (predicate then-clause) (else else-clause))) 12:40:19 rudybot: eval (new-if #f 10 42) 12:40:20 Leonidas: ; Value: 42 12:40:39 rudybot: eval (new-if #f (sleep 10) 42) 12:40:42 Leonidas: error: with-limit: out of time 12:40:50 rudybot: eval (if #f (sleep 10) 42) 12:40:51 Leonidas: ; Value: 42 12:41:24 so yeah, that is the difference 12:42:10 swathanthran: you *could* create your own, fully working new-if, but not using define. 12:43:48 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:44:04 rdd [n=rdd@83.250.145.223] has joined #scheme 12:44:28 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:20 m811 [n=user@84-50-207-42-dsl.est.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 13:00:42 -!- araujo [n=moz@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:02:59 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:04:00 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:09:40 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:12:46 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-104.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:16:36 -!- Sveklo2 [n=sveklo1@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit ["Leaving..."] 13:17:38 rudybot: uptime 13:17:39 Leonidas: I've been up for seven weeks, one day; this tcp/ip connection has been up for five days, twenty hours 13:17:55 rudybot: version 13:17:55 Leonidas: 4c4cd42 13:18:01 rudybot: eval 1 13:18:01 Leonidas: ; Value: 1 13:19:18 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:19:34 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme 13:21:21 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.94.82.158] has joined #scheme 13:32:15 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:41:18 rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has joined #scheme 13:44:44 Leonidas: oh yeah now it's clear.. thanks.. 13:45:13 langmartin [n=user@152.85.133.62] has joined #scheme 13:52:28 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 13:53:03 rudybot: eval (define-syntax nw-if (syntax-rules ([_ predicate then-clause else-clause] (cond (predicate then-clause) (else else-clause))]))) 13:53:04 Leonidas: error: eval:1:123: read: expected `)' to close preceding `(', found instead `]' 13:53:13 rudybot: eval (define-syntax nw-if (syntax-rules ([_ predicate then-clause else-clause] (cond (predicate then-clause) (else else-clause)))]))) 13:53:14 Leonidas: error: eval:1:124: read: expected `)' to close preceding `(', found instead `]' 13:53:28 rudybot: eval (define-syntax nw-if (syntax-rules () ([_ predicate then-clause else-clause] (cond (predicate then-clause) (else else-clause))))]))) 13:53:28 Leonidas: error: eval:1:128: read: expected `)' to close preceding `(', found instead `]' 13:53:37 rudybot: eval (define-syntax nw-if (syntax-rules () ([_ predicate then-clause else-clause] (cond (predicate then-clause) (else else-clause)))))])) 13:53:37 Leonidas: error: eval:1:129: read: unexpected `]' 13:53:55 ah, damn, I hate such 1-liners 13:54:45 yome [n=username@70.25.29.83] has joined #scheme 13:55:51 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:56:01 rudybot: eval (define-syntax nw-if (syntax-rules () [(_ predicate then-clause else-clause) (cond (predicate then-clause) (else else-clause))])) 13:56:29 swathanthran: this is how a working new-if would look like 13:56:51 rudybot: eval (nw-if #f (sleep 10) 42) 13:56:51 Leonidas: ; Value: 42 13:57:05 rudybot: eval (if #f (sleep 10) 42) 13:57:05 Leonidas: ; Value: 42 13:57:29 *Leonidas* <3 syntax-rules 13:58:24 pattern based macros are responsible that I chose Scheme over Common Lisp, when deciding on a Lisp :) 14:02:00 -!- rdd [n=rdd@83.250.145.223] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:46 Hi all. We'll be releasing our game (QuantZ, written in Scheme) on Linux, and would like some feedback from people willing to try out the demo. So, if anybody wants to try it please /msg me. 14:04:58 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-225.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 14:05:44 hi all 14:06:07 could you tell me a good manual to learn scheme ? 14:06:24 yome: Which Scheme? 14:06:30 fluxus 14:06:41 sjamaan, Gambit-C 14:06:57 yome: I saw the screenshots. It looks absolutely stunning 14:07:08 Great job 14:07:50 sjamaan, which OS are you running? 14:07:55 NetBSD 14:08:14 Will there be a version for OpenBSD as well :) 14:08:22 And Windows? 14:08:31 Oh, come on leppie 14:08:33 Be realistic 14:08:37 A version for Windows?! 14:08:39 :D 14:09:04 gambit + gcc + opengl sounds quite portable 14:09:09 leppie, it's on Windows and OSX already. 14:09:13 aLeSD: I like this one: http://www.cs.hut.fi/Studies/T-93.210/schemetutorial/schemetutorial.html 14:09:25 thanks 14:09:33 yome: you have a link? 14:09:37 leppie, we use OpenGL on OSX and Linux, but DirectX 8 and 9 on Windows. 14:09:42 leppie, for the Linux version? 14:09:52 does the linux version run on Windows? 14:09:54 :p 14:10:00 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:10:01 no, I mean the windows one 14:10:07 It is regarded as one of the most elegant programming languages in the world thanks to its smallness, beauty and expressive power. 14:10:18 leppie, it's on Steam, but you can also get it here: http://www.quantzgame.com 14:10:40 closed source? 14:11:38 leppie, yes, mostly. 14:11:43 my GF would like this type of game 14:13:24 -!- yome [n=username@70.25.29.83] has quit ["rebooting, brb"] 14:15:12 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:16:05 samth [n=samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:20:36 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:21:03 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 14:24:13 aLeSD: also try the PLT guide as well as TSPL 14:24:44 ok 14:27:13 hmm, I see a file called Quantz.exe, is this some kind of archive files for operating systems that don't have tar? ;) 14:28:07 did you see the system requirements link? 14:28:26 but judging from the screenshots, I wouldn't pay $13 14:29:05 leppie: yep, no mention of a version for common operating systems, just some niche stuff ^^ 14:29:12 i dont play games anymore 14:29:50 most games suck, and are barely worth $10 in entertainment value 14:30:12 leppie: That's what reviews are for ;) 14:30:15 neither do I. Except a bit of 2d side-shooters :) 14:30:32 im looking forward to that space MMORPGPSG from CodeMasters 14:30:50 should give the repaired xbox a try, maybe it is more fun. 14:31:25 *Leonidas* can't concentrate for more than 5 minutes anyway 14:31:32 i want a game that is like star control 2 was 14:32:44 leppie: try nethack. free, you can hack it yourself, and effectively infinite replay value. 14:32:46 hotblack231 [n=jh@p5B0562E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:34:07 web server question: is there a straightforward way to do run-time templates, as opposed to the compile-time version provided by webserver/templates ? constantly restarting the server is irksome. 14:34:10 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:34:44 there is ALWAYS a way. 14:34:44 lol 14:34:52 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:35:01 He did ask for a straightforward way ;) 14:35:04 wont it recompile the file if you touch it? 14:35:17 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:35:42 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:35:59 leppie: I didn't think so, but possibly I was making an invalid assumption. hang on. 14:36:09 dstorrs: nethack looks too complicated with all that ASCII 14:36:33 It's infinite replay value until you win 14:36:44 Nethack is basically the grandfather of Diablo 14:36:59 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Success] 14:37:20 i want a free will space game with action 14:37:27 leppie: nope, it doesn't recompile on touch 14:37:31 Turn-based instead of real-time, and with a bit less Satan 14:37:34 like WoW 40000 years in the future 14:37:46 Jafet: nah, plenty of replay after you win. 14:38:11 what, 14 classes? multiple challenges? 14:38:31 14 identical classes and 12 trivial challenges 14:38:49 we apparently aren't discussing the same Nethack 14:39:10 believe me, wizards and barbarians require a very different play style. 14:40:02 So it's more like halo, marginally interesting at the beginning, then towards the end you have five hundred miles of the same room over and over 14:40:02 and if you think "pacifist" (i.e., 'won the game without killing ANYTHING') is a trivial challenge... 14:40:12 Uh, it is 14:40:18 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:41:06 addamgc_ [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:41:06 *shrug* de gustibus non est disputandum 14:41:18 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 14:41:53 OOC though, which class(es) have you won with, Jafet? 14:42:40 mprvw then bored 14:43:28 ?, priest, rogue, ?, ? 14:44:58 hum. Can I use syntax-case to achieve the equivalent of a keyword macro? 14:45:06 uh, compile-macro ? 14:45:27 i.e. if in head position, it's a macro, if in variable position, it's a function that has same semantics 14:45:43 define-integrable 14:45:51 -!- duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:45:55 duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 14:46:15 -!- twobitsp1ite [n=isaac@li24-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:46:22 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:26 twobitsprite [n=isaac@li24-165.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 14:46:59 leppie, uh, that's for MIT Scheme only, isn't it? And it won't let me define my own optimizations, will it? 14:47:06 Fare: http://www.scheme.com/csug8/syntax.html#./syntax:h1 14:47:09 or is the partial evaluator clever enough? 14:47:12 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054A76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:47:14 it depends on what scheme you got 14:47:15 -!- addamgc_ [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:47:45 you need fluid-let-syntax if you need it to work recursively 14:47:51 else you can use let-syntax 14:48:06 search for define-inline in Ypsilon's source code 14:48:38 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 14:49:28 what Scheme are you using Fare? 14:51:25 mostly PLT these days 14:51:52 Fare: yes, you can do that 14:51:58 I think that have some other names for that, syntax parameters 14:52:05 samth, which technique can I use? 14:52:41 and are there libraries that make it easier? 14:53:10 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/pattern-macros.html#(part._.Identifier_.Macros) 14:53:25 that should tell you everything you want to know 14:55:32 thanks a lot! 14:56:43 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-220-226.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:57:01 samth: does that match anything? eg (1 2 swap) ? 14:57:29 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:57:30 where swap is the macro in the above pattern 14:58:41 or does it just handle the set! case? 14:59:57 no, the swap macro won't match that 15:00:20 although, which pattern are you referring to? 15:00:47 (foo bar swap) 15:02:19 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:05:38 leppie: that doesn't appear in the manual 15:06:53 i know identifier-syntax from R6RS only works for the set! case, but I guess it would be expensive to implement a general version 15:08:29 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:20:07 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:21:08 -!- ASau [n=user@host17-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 15:29:14 rstandy` [n=rastandy@212.189.140.32] has joined #scheme 15:29:21 kunjan [n=chatzill@216-15-124-174.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:28 -!- kunjan [n=chatzill@216-15-124-174.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 15:42:51 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:21 ejs [n=eugen@95.135.11.75] has joined #scheme 15:46:18 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:46:48 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:49:06 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-151-199-30-68.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:49:06 leppie: no, identifier-syntax from r6rs allows you to expand (foo bar swap) into (foo bar whatever-you-want) 15:49:17 but you can't get control of the whole form 15:49:46 I meant the whole form :) 15:50:26 I guess it cant be hard to do for specific cases if you need that 15:53:01 in plt you don't get the whole form either 15:53:24 it would violate outside-in macro expansion 15:53:32 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE009.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:55:42 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:57:09 -!- jao [n=jao@80.24.4.74] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:10 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:38 -!- rstandy` [n=rastandy@212.189.140.32] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:01:25 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:02:06 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:04:06 -!- kniu [n=kniu@ELMUNDO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:57 -!- mabes is now known as mabes|away 16:06:41 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.242.193] has joined #scheme 16:08:34 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:53 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17:01 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 16:23:11 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:24:17 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 16:26:02 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-177-105-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:26:03 lolcow [n=lolcow@196-210-177-105-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:29:11 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 16:30:30 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.242.193] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:38:57 I'm re-reading the Reference re:continuations (http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/eval-model.html#%28part._cont-model%29) , and the third paragraph under 1.1.5 seems wonky. 16:38:59 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ydwr4zy 16:40:25 it says "...a value is a reference to an object." That seems to imply that in (define x 7), 7 is an object referenced by the value x. I would expect it to be the other way around...7 is a value, x an object. 16:40:42 No, dstorrs, X is a variable, not a value or an object. 16:41:35 The expression X has a value, which is, in the terminology of that text, a reference to the number 7. 16:43:34 hm. ok, so (vector 7) produces a vector (object) where the first slot contains a value which references the number 7? 16:43:55 and (vector 7) is an expression. Yes? 16:44:51 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:45:53 Yes. 16:46:44 so numbers, strings, characters, etc -- those aren't values? 16:46:53 kniu [n=kniu@128.2.16.211] has joined #scheme 16:47:26 Well, in the language of that text, a value can be a reference to a number, a string, or a character, which are all objects. 16:48:07 *whimper* 16:48:31 That text seems mostly like a feeble attempt at justifying the use of the terms `call-by-value' and `call-by-reference' by saying that every value is a reference to an object. However, I have never heard anyone seriously try to convey ideas using that language. 16:48:46 oh thank god. 16:48:48 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 16:48:56 If you call a vector a value, nobody will try to sue you. 16:51:01 well that's a relief. For purposes of understanding the document, though, let me see if I have it straight: "fundamental things" (numbers, strings, etc) are what it calls objects. 16:51:50 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-itfcjwkfpypcyypd] has joined #scheme 16:52:23 "values" are references to objects. objects are either bools, (void), or "containers" like vectors. 16:52:33 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:52:53 The part about `booleans, (void), and small exact integers' is an implementation detail leaking into the description of semantics. 16:52:59 I suggest that you disregard that part. 16:53:20 ok. but aside from that, am I generally in line? 16:53:37 Yes. 16:54:08 hm, actually no. values = "results of expressions". not necessarily a fundamental thing, I suppose. 16:54:36 since a continuation could be a value under that definition. 16:55:23 ok, great. thanks for the clarification. 16:59:18 -!- ebzzry_ [n=ebzzry@124.217.64.76] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:59:48 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S0106000f66bc42b9.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 17:00:47 Is it possible to do random access reads and writes in a text file with Scheme ports? 17:01:25 Not with the standard operations on ports. What Scheme system are you using? 17:01:45 Riastradh: PLT for now 17:02:04 In that case, there is almost certainly an operation to find and set a port's octet position. 17:02:29 I was interested if I missed something about standard Scheme that would allow it. Thanks for your answer. 17:03:54 PLT has (file-position port pos) to set the port position 17:05:30 xmonader [n=ahmed@41.196.170.165] has joined #scheme 17:05:44 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:07:07 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ccrxhddssrkpelpm] has joined #scheme 17:10:05 schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:10:20 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:10:30 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:14:06 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S0106000f66bc42b9.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [] 17:15:12 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-itfcjwkfpypcyypd] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:02 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-220-226.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:23:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@95.135.11.75] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:27:59 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-244-138.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 17:28:18 Riastradh & dstorrs: that paragraph in the docs is actually important to understand the semantics 17:28:39 at least at the level that that section is describing 17:29:33 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:31:38 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 17:32:22 No, it's not. Perhaps if it used `value' strictly as a relation (as in, ` has value '), that repurposing of the term would be useful. The subsequent pseudo-Scheme objects/defined/evaluate sequence is pretty confusing, too; DEFINE has two different meanings there. 17:33:29 no, that paragraph is talking about immediate values vs references, not value as in a valuation function 17:33:43 that's why the fixnum distinction is important 17:33:50 Immediate values versus references is an implementation detail. 17:33:56 It does not belong in a description of semantics. 17:34:30 no, it isn't 17:34:39 see the discussion of eq? in the next section 17:35:41 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.129] has joined #scheme 17:35:43 also, see the discussion of weak references 17:35:45 I see that discussion. That doesn't make it any less of an implementation detail, which EQ? partially exposes, although that could have been stated as `Numbers may be represented by multiple different objects distinguishable by EQ?.' 17:36:25 PLT's evaluation model is specified more tightly than that 17:36:38 OK: so PLT Scheme has an overspecified evaluation model. 17:37:09 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE009.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Changing server"] 17:37:12 in some places, maybe 17:37:32 but i don't think the fact that (eq? 1 1) => #t is overspecification 17:38:41 At what numbers does that cease to hold? That is very much an implementation detail. For example, in SISC, (EQ? 1 1) usually yields #F. 17:39:12 Programs shouldn't rely on (EQ? 1 1). If you want to compare numbers, you should be using EQV? or =. 17:40:59 I could imagine wanting to do that if I were doing something like (eq? (func_1) (func_2)), which are two separate searching algorithms against the same store 17:41:43 if the objects in the store are numbers, it would be useful if (eq? 1 1) 17:43:03 Are you storing *numbers*, dstorrs, or are you storing objects? If you're storing numbers, then EQ? is wrong -- it does not tell you whether two objects represent a common number. If you are storing objects, then you must be willing to store two distinct objects that represent a common number, and EQ? will distinguish them. 17:44:00 It happens that some numbers behave like interned symbols, so that two representations of them are always the same object, but that's an implementation detail -- unlike internment of symbols. 17:44:03 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:44:31 Similarly, it could happen that two strings sharing common text might be EQ?, even if you wrote them in different places in a program -- they too might be interned. But that's still an implementation detail. 17:45:15 In some Scheme systems, (EQ? "foo" "foo") yields true; in some it yields false. I could imagine a Scheme system in which (STRING=? X Y) implies (EQ? X Y), although I'm not aware of any. 17:45:46 Riastradh: I'm just offering this as a hypothetical that points out why specifying this behavior to be true could be useful. It frees you from knowing what kind of data is in the store--no matter what hashing / searching algorithm you use, you should get the same element back from the store. 17:46:23 I'm not actually doing it. 17:46:23 ..and yep, I understand your point about 17:46:32 it being an implementation detail. 17:47:40 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:59:10 Riastradh: That assertion could only be valid for immutable strings. 18:01:22 foof, oh, yes, you're right. 18:01:55 It's something I'm tempted to implement in chibi-scheme though. 18:02:28 ... for immediate strings, anyway, it would probably be too expensive to intern all strings. 18:03:11 Most Scheme compilers do that anyway, within a single unit of code. 18:03:22 In Scheme48, for instance, (EQ? "foo" foo") yields true. 18:04:04 Oh, I meant for all strings, assuming a compiler setting for immutable strings. 18:04:49 so that (eq? (string #\a #\b #\c) (list->string '(#\a #\b #\c))) => #t 18:07:51 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:34 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:09:42 -!- zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:14:01 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-104.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 18:19:21 macdice [n=user@78.86.162.220] has joined #scheme 18:19:40 I'd like to look at a simple but non-trivial example of stateful servlets being used in the PLT web server. Does anyone have suggestions? 18:21:48 (something other than the http://doc.plt-scheme.org/web-server/templates.html#%28part._.Conversion_.Example%29) 18:21:50 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ybbay2s 18:22:15 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 18:23:55 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:55 -!- samth [n=samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:55 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-225.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:55 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:55 -!- troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:55 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-255-249.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- TimMc [n=TimMc@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- certainty [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- C-Keen [i=ckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- kazzmir [n=kazzmir@98.202.86.149] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:23:56 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 18:27:00 samth [n=samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:29:21 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 18:35:12 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:35:36 -!- mabes|away [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:56 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@129.170.212.225] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 nowhere_man [n=pierre@nsg93-7-88-164-172-1.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-255-249.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 C-Keen [i=ckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 kazzmir [n=kazzmir@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 TimMc [n=TimMc@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 certainty [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 18:42:53 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 18:48:51 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:50:58 -!- xmonader [n=ahmed@41.196.170.165] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:56:08 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:03 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:17 jao [n=jao@57.Red-88-6-163.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:02:31 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:03:19 eli: how does one disable building/installing the docs in the PLT build? (and are there other tricks to speed up the build?) 19:03:21 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:04:11 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 19:05:45 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@nsg93-7-88-164-172-1.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:43 pierre_thierry [n=Pierre@nsg93-7-88-164-172-1.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:27 schemer999 [n=tmilford@170.170.59.133] has joined #scheme 19:08:46 rotty: i think you want make plain-install 19:08:52 and then 'setup-plt -D' 19:09:44 samth: thanks 19:10:58 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@170.170.59.133] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:11:31 Well, that's pretty frustrating. Since I got a new battery for this MacBook to replace one with very little life left in it, the MacBook has consistently failed to go to sleep when it runs out of battery juice; instead it just shuts off. It caught Emacs in the middle of auto-saving a file! Fortunately I had the tail of the file that got truncated, but this is pretty infuriating. 19:12:39 rotty: ... and if you want this in a fresh compilation, then after the `make plain-install', you need to use `mzscheme -l- setup ...setup-flags...' because you won't have setup-plt at that point. 19:19:44 -!- [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.94.82.158] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:20:19 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:26 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:20:54 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.90.130] has joined #scheme 19:21:42 foof` [n=user@FLH1Ahf049.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 19:21:52 schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:23:38 to try the bug of "capturing a free variable" i tried this (define (good-enough? abs x) (< (delta-guess abs x) (abs (/ abs 1000000)))) and got the error "The object 1. is not applicable." whats that actually saying? where is object 1 is not applicable ? 19:23:38 19:24:05 swathanthran, let me guess: you tried to pass 1.0 as the first argument to GOOD-ENOUGH? ? 19:24:12 yeah 19:24:30 Well, your definition of GOOD-ENOUGH? tries to use its first argument both as a number and as a procedure. 19:25:06 Numbers aren't procedures, and hence cannot be applied, i.e. are not applicable. 19:25:36 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:25:44 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:25:55 oh.. ic.. so abs representing a procedure can be applied with another procedure.. hmm.. now it makes sense.;-) 19:26:38 but still thats not saying about "capturing abs" it should actually seg-fault or something for that right? 19:26:52 Segfault?? 19:26:55 No, it should never segfault. 19:27:21 If you make Scheme segfault, you have either found a bug or you are being naughty (much naughtier than this code). 19:28:07 i mean this error that "object 1. cannot be applied" has nothing to do with the bug of "capturing free variable" right.. i was actually trying to see how it comes out. 19:28:49 The bug is not that you shadowed, or captured, a free variable. The bug is that you tried to use the object 1.0 as if it were a procedure. 19:29:37 Capturing free variables happens all the time (you captured the free variables <, DELTA-GUESS, and /); shadowing variables happens sometimes, but is often intended. 19:29:39 sure.. what if i give a legal object to abs? if i give a procedure to abs then ? 19:30:14 If you supplied a procedure for the first argument to GOOD-ENOUGH?, then you would encounter a different error. Try it: (good-enough? abs 123) 19:30:33 (Here ABS refers to its standard binding -- to a variable whose value is a procedure that computes absolute values of real numbers.) 19:36:43 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 19:37:49 -!- foof [n=user@FL1-118-110-11-115.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:42:22 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:29 got it to an extend, (define (good-enough? cos x) (< (delta-guess cos x) (abs (/ cos 1000000)))) shows no error, and uses cos as a number carrying variable though there is another cos representing procedure for cosine.. so there i captured cos .. but did i capture < or /? i am still using its "original" definition right? sicp says like this.. "In the definition of good-enough? above, guess and x are bound variables but <, -, abs, and 19:42:29 square are free." and what i do for cos is shadowing? 19:42:37 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:57 swathanthran, it doesn't matter that the name COS has a binding outside your definition of GOOD-ENOUGH?. Inside your definition, it has only the binding that you gave it. 19:44:23 The two bindings -- the standard one and the one inside your definition of GOOD-ENOUGH? -- are totally unrelated. 19:44:53 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-240.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:44:58 hmm.. 19:45:10 *swathanthran* starts to <3 lisping.. 19:46:10 Your variable named COS shadows the standard binding. But your (new) definition doesn't shadow <, /, ABS, or DELTA-GUESS; in fact, it remembers their bindings -- it captures their bindings. If you later write (LET ((/ *)) (GOOD-ENOUGH? ...)), what was called / in GOOD-ENOUGH? will still be the standard binding for the division procedure. 19:48:15 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:17 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-240.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:51:38 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-172-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:51:42 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 19:52:16 Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #scheme 19:55:27 ah now i get it. shadowing a variable means we are re-defining the variable on our function and capturing it means just using a variable that it copies the variables value from outside as we don't ourself re-define it.. 19:55:40 damnn who placed single quote near 19:55:59 Shadowing isn't redefining; the old definition stays. It just isn't visible within a certain lexical scope. 19:56:17 yeah.. 20:09:05 ponzao___ [n=vesam@xdsl-83-150-86-25.nebulazone.fi] has joined #scheme 20:17:28 eli: If I use the Windows DrScheme installer to install scheme to a flash drive do you know if that install work from any arbitrary computer or does the installer modify the registry/etc. somehow? 20:18:16 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:18:54 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-65.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 20:19:20 abbyz [n=adkulkar@unaffiliated/abbyz] has joined #scheme 20:21:07 danking: The installer adds two things to the registry -- associates the file extensions with drscheme, and the "instructions" on how to uninstall plt (so it appears in the add/remove software dialog) 20:21:19 So it should be fine to run from a usb. 20:21:31 eli: Thanks, eli. This is good news. 20:31:55 emmy [n=em@cpe-98-14-154-71.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:36:51 -!- copumpkin is now known as macweenie 20:37:37 -!- danking is now known as Armageddon00 20:38:35 -!- macweenie is now known as copumpkin 20:40:43 zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:11 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 20:44:08 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-240.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:46:11 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-240.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:46:30 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-32.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:52:39 -!- macdice [n=user@78.86.162.220] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:53:49 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 20:54:49 anyone with a car coming to the BLM tonight at NEU WVG 108 ? 20:56:43 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:58:11 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:02:47 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["*bork bork*"] 21:06:06 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 21:07:37 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:08:17 -!- langmartin [n=user@152.85.133.62] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:11:28 -!- copumpkin is now known as TheHunter 21:11:42 -!- TheHunter is now known as copumpkin 21:12:03 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:12:49 Sveklo [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 21:13:56 MononcQc [n=mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:14:07 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 21:15:09 schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:18:57 Can a PLT PLaneT package install commands (to be invoked from the command line), the same way that Ruby Gems can? 21:21:14 Sveklo: yes 21:21:24 there's a 'planet' command line utility 21:22:09 samth: I meant, can a PLaneT package itself install a new command? Does the package specification provide for that? 21:22:40 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:44 Sveklo: no, it can't at the moment 21:24:46 That would be a good feature - download and install immediately executable real scheme programs, not just libraries of code 21:25:33 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:26:16 Actually even for code libraries of a certain type or size, it would also be useful to package up runnable demonstration executables 21:27:59 Sveklo1 [n=sveklo@213.243.181.131] has joined #scheme 21:34:44 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:59 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:42:35 jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-64.hotspot.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:52:17 -!- addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:54:55 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-64.hotspot.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:55:14 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:13 mmc [n=mima@89.27.122.78] has joined #scheme 22:11:09 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:11:26 -!- samth [n=samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:15:12 jonrafkind [n=jon@155.98.68.48] has joined #scheme 22:16:13 hmm, strange: In drscheme and mzscheme, I get errors for an R6RS library's `rename' clause (in the export list), but with plt-r6rs it works... 22:17:24 export: not an identifier or `rename' clause at: (rename ...) 22:18:55 did you set the languaeg as r6rs? 22:18:59 #lang r6rs 22:20:09 jonrafkind: I get the error with both #!r6rs and #lang scheme 22:20:24 (and the library has #!r6rs as first datum) 22:20:53 I also seem to remember that I was able to import that library at least once in DrScheme 22:26:34 jrtayloriv pasted "Shoul I be getting this error about no #%app syntax transformer? Just yes or no, I'd like to find the answer myself ..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87976 22:27:54 It's just weird because I'm getting this from several code examples from "The Scheme Programming Language", which I think are supposed to work. 22:31:29 jrtayloriv, probably need to require (for-syntax scheme/base) 22:31:36 -!- Sveklo1 [n=sveklo@213.243.181.131] has quit [] 22:31:52 oh you wanted to discover it for yourself.. sorry 22:31:57 are you masochistic or something? 22:32:20 jonrafkind, No -- it just makes things stick in my head better. 22:32:52 well you can discover why you need that require I guess 22:32:56 have fun... 22:33:02 jonrafkind, Will do, thanks. 22:33:57 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:34:50 *rotty* suspects he has f'upped is PLT installation 22:36:51 that would be an even more exciting debugging adventure 22:37:07 *rotty* reinstalls 22:37:40 does someone know what exactly the purpose of $COLLECT_DIR/info-domain/compiled/cache.ss is? 22:37:47 -!- hotblack231 [n=jh@p5B0562E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:39:54 schoppenhauer [n=christop@host159.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #scheme 22:44:11 addamgc [n=addamgc@ip72-203-154-146.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:37 -!- aLeSD [n=alex@ppp-220-240.21-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:05 ASau [n=user@ppp91-77-59-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 22:52:20 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.129] has quit ["so long.."] 22:53:42 -!- pierre_thierry [n=Pierre@nsg93-7-88-164-172-1.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:55:14 -!- ada2358 [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:17 ada2358 [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:04:06 Do most interpreters actually implement let in terms of lambda, or is that something that is usually just done in introductory books to show that it can be done? 23:04:35 interpreters/compilers not written in scheme, that is 23:05:33 EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-192-167.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 23:06:12 i need help changing some code that uses several if statements to one that uses ands and ors 23:06:48 I mentioned to someone that let could be defined in terms of lambda the other day, and they said "but I doubt any production-worthy Scheme compiler actually does it that way" 23:09:43 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-93.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:23 If the interpreter/compiler optimizes away ((lambda ....) args), then it would make no difference at all whether or not let was treated as a special form derived from lambda. 23:13:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-77-59-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:42 ASau [n=user@ppp91-77-59-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 23:15:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-77-59-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:15:54 ASau [n=user@ppp91-77-59-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 23:16:27 -!- EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-192-167.noc.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 23:18:12 Does anyone here use Authorize.net? 23:18:27 is anyone else going to the Cleveland Schemers meetup tomorrow? 23:18:28 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-77-59-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:19:03 ASau [n=user@ppp91-77-59-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 23:19:42 apparently it's bring-your-own hot lunch 23:20:44 Has anyone heard of Gunpowder Green Tea? 23:24:30 ok, now I get that `rename' error consistently, both with plt-r6rs and DrScheme 23:25:04 i'm looking forward to Dr. T. Sanchez' talk 23:27:24 looking at the corresponding code in collects/r6rs/main.ss, I can't tell what could be wrong... 23:28:11 Summermute, Sorry, I was afk -- So basically, that person didn't know what they were talking about in this case? 23:31:32 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:23 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:41:45 Summermute66 [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:42:04 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:46:09 jrtayloriv, any `production-worthy' Scheme compiler will not distinguish (LET ...) from ((LAMBDA ...) ...). Whoever suggested otherwise hasn't a clue. 23:47:22 arcfide, yes, it's a pretty common kind of tea. 23:49:04 Riastradh, OK, thanks. I know that this person does know far more about programming in general than I ever expect to learn, so my original instinct was to just take their word for it. But I've seen it mentioned in too many different places to believe it. Seems like they don't know as much about Scheme as they think they do. Thanks. 23:49:43 I was originally going to try to implement define-syntax and lambda and do 'let' in terms of those, but was told it was "stupid", essentially. 23:50:02 Yes, whoever told you that hasn't a clue. 23:51:30 The primary job of a Scheme compiler is to figure out what to do with lambda. If it can't figure out what to do with a lambda in the operator position of a combination, then it's not doing its job very well. 23:52:27 araujo [n=moz@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 23:55:23 wow, apparently loading `(srfi :14 char-sets)' with my recent modifications breaks `rename' clauses in R6RS libraries 23:55:44 s/loading/importing/ 23:55:49 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-32.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:05 -!- zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:59:23 OK, I think I solved it: there slipped a `rename' into the `(srfi :14) export list -- doh!