00:00:07 #; comments out the immediately following expression. It was standardized in SRFI 62: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-62/srfi-62.html 00:00:34 This was also included in the R6RS. 00:01:19 rudybot: eval #;(define lambda 1) ((lambda () 42)) 00:01:19 chandler: ; Value: 42 00:01:43 chandler, Thank you. 00:10:19 -!- patmaddo_ [n=patmaddo@ip68-111-70-47.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:15:11 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 00:26:45 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-192-76.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:31:03 kercyr [n=kercyr@pawan.cs.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 00:32:32 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-151.res.pomona.edu] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:32:32 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:32:32 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:32:32 -!- jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:32:32 -!- Riastradh 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I'd be interested in learning some more scheme through extending some existing project... 00:33:23 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:39 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 jedc [n=jedc@c-67-171-246-227.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-151.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 bweaver [n=user@24-247-129-155.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 male_terran [n=Male_Ter@ip98-162-159-132.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 jao [n=jao@75.Red-88-6-168.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-127-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 ineiros [n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-48-189.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 rcassidy [n=rcassidy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 nasloc__ [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 erg [n=erg@69.93.127.154] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 snurble [n=none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 kazzmir [n=kazzmir@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 tltstc [n=tltstc@76.90.95.39] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 linas [n=linas@gnucash.org] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@124.214.245.222] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 Elly [n=pyxystyx@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 chandler [n=n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 roderic [n=user@bubbles.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 tizoc [n=user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 dlouhy [n=jdlouhy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 Adrinael [i=adrinael@rib4.kyla.fi] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 TimMc [n=TimMc@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 makmanalp [n=legato@80.76.201.55] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 certainty [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 00:33:39 michaelw [i=michaelw@88.198.49.16] has joined #scheme 00:33:47 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 00:33:49 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:33:57 -!- male_terran [n=Male_Ter@ip98-162-159-132.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:35:06 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 00:40:06 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:43:44 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-146.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:47:06 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.6.48] has joined #scheme 00:51:14 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:24 schemer999 [n=schemer9@76.89.231.7] has joined #scheme 00:51:30 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:53:21 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-151.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:55:14 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:59:22 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-96.netcologne.de] has quit [No route to host] 01:00:52 why are parameters named parameters? 01:02:57 Because they act as implicit parameters to every procedure call for a dynamic extent. 01:03:14 -!- bweaver [n=user@24-247-129-155.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:05:32 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bxbutpkmofsmullq] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:07:03 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:07:04 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 01:10:45 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:17:12 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 01:20:12 Riastradh: I didn't get a response to the exports issue for 'maybe-resume' and such. 01:20:16 Did I miss it? 01:20:39 There was a netsplit. 01:20:50 Just before I saw the netsplit, I said 01:20:54 arcfide, it's true that MAYBE-RESUME and WITH-SUSPENSION-CLAIMED are defined in primitive.scm, but they belong in a separate interface. They are used separately from primitive rendezvous: using primitive rendezvous doesn't mean that you must use them, and using them doesn't mean that you must use primitive rendezvous. Indeed, most users of them don't need to know about primitive rendezvous. 01:21:05 After that, I saw nothing from you until a moment ago. 01:29:33 patmaddox [n=patmaddo@ip68-111-70-47.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:04 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:46 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 01:32:01 Riastradh: Alright, I'm heading home, but I should have a little time to figure this out tonight and make things better. 01:32:27 -!- arcfide [i=1000@140-182-146-200.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 01:36:06 steiger_ [n=steiger@189.105.114.204] has joined #scheme 01:38:56 -!- Lemurian is now known as lemurian 01:39:12 -!- lemurian is now known as lmr 01:40:50 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:47:16 xmonader [n=ahmed@196.205.141.2] has joined #scheme 01:48:26 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:55:19 -!- jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@cpe-24-24-93-226.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:46 jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@69.205.162.163] has joined #scheme 01:56:06 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:59:12 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-131.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:59:50 -!- steiger [n=steiger@189.105.114.204] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:03:48 male_terran [n=Male_Ter@ip98-162-159-132.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:03 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:12:47 mdg_ [n=mdg@unaffiliated/mgroman] has joined #scheme 02:15:06 -!- lmr [n=lemurian@unaffiliated/lemurian] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:19:35 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@static-71-250-255-82.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:22:13 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:23:25 mabes [n=mabes@166.70.220.118] has joined #scheme 02:23:52 hrm.. silly question (just learning).. but I can't seem to figure this out. If I have (define a 4) and (define b 10).. how do I put those two in a list? 02:24:13 I can say `(12 34) to create a list of numbers.. but doing `(a b) doesn't create a list of numbers it seems to create a list of symbols or something 02:24:21 (list a b) 02:24:27 ahh 02:24:31 ok, that was too easy 02:24:52 interesting.. 02:25:18 so what is different between the list function and the ` operator/macro? 02:25:47 the ` seems to return symbols or refs to the values.. not the values themselves... 02:26:08 camio [n=d@cpe-72-226-208-34.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:31:15 -!- mdg_ is now known as mdg 02:31:18 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@76.89.231.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:34:45 -!- mabes is now known as mabes|away 02:35:01 frankmcauley___ [n=frankmca@cpe-24-95-61-75.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:35:03 mabes|away: ` is to do this: 02:35:11 incubot: (let ((a 4)) `(a ,a)) 02:35:11 (a 4) 02:35:33 usually in a context of a macro... 02:35:51 -!- mabes|away is now known as mabes 02:36:55 sladegen: ok, I just stated using Scheme so I haven't even ran across let yet.. but am I correct is guessing that it is used for binding variables to values? 02:38:05 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:38:07 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:38:10 -!- mabes is now known as mabes|away 02:38:45 Perceptron [n=chatzill@S0106002129b81fbd.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 02:38:49 it's to stop scheme's evaluator from evaluating whatever after it 02:39:00 hey guys 02:39:08 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 02:40:14 mabes|away: ` is like ' i.e. quote, except for ability to escape back to eval with , and ,@ 02:41:16 ok, thanks for the explanation 02:41:25 now, I must really go away :) 02:41:47 r5rs quasiquote 02:41:47 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_150 02:41:50 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3rjrss 02:42:00 there... for later. 02:43:46 hey guys quick question if im tryign to write a function part? that takes 2 arguments and returns #t if argument B contains A so forexample (A B) and (C (A B) (C)) would reutrn true but (A B) and (((B) A (B)) C returns #f 02:44:23 i tried using memq but it returns false for the first one which it should be true 02:44:36 how shoudl i go about this? (im jsut learning scheme ) 02:45:58 is there another function or something i missed? 02:47:09 Leonidas: I'd _love_ it if you hacked on rudybot; he's been feeling neglected recently 02:47:13 rudybot: source 02:47:40 incubot: (memq '(a b) '(c (a b) (c))) 02:47:40 #f 02:47:40 -!- mdg [n=mdg@unaffiliated/mgroman] has quit [] 02:47:41 *offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot/tree/4c4cd42ccc90a799e1873ecacfc6f0ca3da8510c 02:47:41 Perceptron: yeah, memq won't work in general 02:47:51 incubot: (memv '(a b) '(c (a b) (c))) 02:47:51 #f 02:47:59 incubot: (member '(a b) '(c (a b) (c))) 02:47:59 ((a b) (c)) 02:48:00 blowmage [n=blowmage@sdyl0420.digis.net] has joined #scheme 02:48:04 Perceptron: I don't know how I'd do it; it sounds a little like string searching 02:48:35 but if it's homework using library function is cheating. 02:48:38 Perceptron: here's a way that will get you an F, and the undying hostility of your TA: convert both A and B to strings, and then see if one string is contained in the other :) 02:48:53 s/homework/assignment/ 02:49:23 sladegen: I assumed he wanted something even more general, like (perceptrons-member '(a b) '(c (hidden (a b)) (c))) => #t 02:49:42 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has left #scheme 02:49:59 offby1: i thought of that which i can do and it would still give me the same grade but i wanted to see what the proper way in shcneme would be if any 02:50:03 offby1: of course... i'm just making "sure" he tried member. 02:50:18 i actually did not try member im looking at that righ tnow 02:50:22 I suppose you could walk depth-first through the haystack, and for each node, see if it's eqv to needle. 02:50:55 -!- frankmcauley___ [n=frankmca@cpe-24-95-61-75.columbus.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 02:50:59 see thats what i originally thought of but coming from other programming languages to me that seemed the wrong way to go about it sort of 02:51:14 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@static-71-250-255-82.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:51:53 Perceptron: do you know the difference between eq? eqv? and equal? and why only member works in this case? 02:52:06 members only 02:52:28 no i cant say i do this is the second day of the course im reading this http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/projects/scheme/documentation/scheme_8.html to try and understand everything 02:52:29 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/n3bg28 02:52:50 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176196186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:54:16 it's 404 here... 02:54:23 if there is any other sites you recommend i will read it 02:55:03 what about your class notes? 02:55:24 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 02:55:28 the class notes arnt alot about scheme this is an AI course 02:55:40 people still teach AI? 02:55:50 sadly 02:56:25 he talked for 20 minutes about scheme syntax, then he said this is the assigment and moved on .... 02:56:42 he expects us to learn and know scheme because of this and for this so we can use it on other assignments 02:57:32 well, there is /topic ... i can't recomment anything because i learned scheme randomly mostly by reading r5rs, most rigorously. 02:58:54 ok thank you i will go read up on eq? eqv? equal? and look at member 02:59:41 Perceptron: the intro sections of http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/index.html are helpful 02:59:53 s/are/might be/ :-) 03:00:26 thank you offby1 im sure it will help considering im just starting with scheme 03:00:53 i have to admit it is a huge change in thinking form C++/C# 03:02:11 ayup 03:02:14 this wuz nice thought unfinished... http://icem.folkwang-hochschule.de/~finnendahl/cm_kurse/doc/schintro/schintro_toc.html 03:02:16 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/mbbom5 03:02:18 at least C# is garbage-collected 03:02:32 thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@114.73.2.213] has joined #scheme 03:02:35 it is but ther eare times i hate the GC 03:03:13 aw, gc is good 03:04:26 it is good but there are times id rather be able to control it i work with alot of unmanged code mainly c/C++ but for the frontend C# is alot more cleaner. thats when trouble happens lol 03:06:43 ah, when mixing in C, I guess it'd be good to have control, sure. I never do that. 03:07:36 Could anyone tell me what the difference between letrec and letrec* are? I took a look at the docs but couldn't figure it out. 03:09:10 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176194179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:18 minion: schintro? 03:09:18 schintro: http://google.com/search?q=%22Scheme%3A+A+Small+But+Powerful+Language%22 03:10:02 camio, LETREC evaluates all the expressions before initializing any of the new bindings. Thus, evaluating the expressions cannot require using the values of any of the bindings (although it can use the bindings themselves, by closing over them with LAMBDA). LETREC* evaluates each expression and initializes its binding, in sequence, so that later expressions can use the values of earlier bindings. 03:10:33 camio: letrec works as if every binded binding was bound. 03:10:38 For example, (letrec* ((x 5) (y (+ x 3))) ...) is valid, whereas substituting LETREC would not. On the other hand, (letrec ((x 5) (y (lambda () (+ x 3)))) ...) is valid with both. 03:10:47 s/letrec/letrec*/ 03:10:52 *sladegen* dohs. 03:12:07 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-245.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 03:12:23 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-245.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:12:47 got it. Thanks guys 03:14:05 -!- jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@69.205.162.163] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:04 jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@cpe-69-205-162-163.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:32:28 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-245.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 03:33:30 -!- meme [n=meme@137.54.9.206] has quit [] 03:39:51 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:43:47 Regarding this: http://pastebin.com/d25dd76c5 ... which is a section from this: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/scm-syntax.text ... why did he use instead of on line 8? I should be implementing , , and as well, correct? 03:44:04 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 03:44:32 And what would be meant by 4f.1c or 010101.1110101, for example? 03:44:55 (for the latter question, I don't expect anyone to explain that to me, but a term I could search for would be helpful) 03:45:41 meme [n=meme@137.54.9.206] has joined #scheme 03:45:45 Searching for "hex decimal" or "binary decimal" only gives me bin<-->dec hex<-->dec conversion stuff ... 03:45:46 -!- meme [n=meme@137.54.9.206] has quit [Client Quit] 03:46:37 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:46:48 jrtayloriv: might's well ask the man himself; he was here half an hour ago 03:47:28 offby1, Was he? Must have been while I was disconnected then -- intermittent interwebz tonight ... thanks. 03:47:41 Riastradh, if you have a moment ^^ 03:48:14 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:49:26 rudybot: seen Riastradh 03:49:26 *offby1: Riastradh was seen in/on #scheme thirty-nine minutes, twenty-four seconds ago, saying "camio, LETREC evaluates all the expressions before initializing any of the new bindings. Thus, evaluating the expressions cannot require using the values of any of the bindings (although it can use the bindings themselves, by closing over them with LAMBDA). LETREC* evaluates each expression and initializes its binding, in sequence, so that later exp 03:49:44 He does go on ... 03:50:40 dmoerner_ [n=dmr@134.173.91.222] has joined #scheme 03:55:32 Riastradh, Ahh, never mind -- found the search term ("hexadecimal floating point") I needed, and answered my question in the process. 03:59:56 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:01:52 -!- mabes|away is now known as mabes 04:02:12 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-245.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:12:25 -!- rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-183-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:13:13 camior [n=d@cpe-72-226-208-34.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:14:49 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:15:23 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:15:28 -!- blowmage [n=blowmage@sdyl0420.digis.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:19:52 -!- Perceptron [n=chatzill@S0106002129b81fbd.vn.shawcable.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 04:20:40 rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-183-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:09 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:28:51 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 04:29:04 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-131.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 04:30:31 -!- camio [n=d@cpe-72-226-208-34.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:34:49 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:36:38 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:46:12 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 04:46:42 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:47:22 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:52:06 -!- dmoerner_ [n=dmr@134.173.91.222] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:53:41 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-himilrmvvemwoqjx] has joined #scheme 04:55:34 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 05:02:39 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 05:05:15 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:06:16 -!- male_terran [n=Male_Ter@ip98-162-159-132.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:06:35 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 05:06:39 jrtayloriv, read the comment above all the radix-parametrized production rules -- the decimal rules apply only for a radix of 10 (hence the name `decimal', although here it really refers more to `decimal point', which is a rather silly term). 05:09:55 Riastradh, Ok, then I misunderstood. Why, then, is in , if is the only decimal rule? (and sorry for not reading the comments) 05:12:34 It's just a notational convenience for the grammar, as are all the radix-parametrized production rules. 05:14:17 Pretend that they're all replicated for all the valid radices, except for the production rules. 05:17:02 Riastradh, Sorry if I'm being dense, but does that mean that I should do a like this: http://pastebin.com/d5e1f133c ... or that I should not have any rule at all for any n other than 10 (i.e. no hex/oct/bin floating point)? 05:18:12 You shouldn't have any rule at all for R other than 10. 05:19:37 Riastradh, So http://pastebin.com/d46bea517, correct? 05:19:50 sorry --> http://pastebin.com/d46bea517 05:20:52 Yes. 05:23:21 Thank you. 05:28:09 -!- mabes [n=mabes@166.70.220.118] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:29:22 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 05:33:17 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 05:35:20 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 60 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06:42:21 (exit) 06:42:35 or CTRL-D 06:45:03 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.180.181] has joined #scheme 06:45:26 -!- kenjin is now known as Guest38192 06:45:35 -!- Guest38192 is now known as kenjin2 06:48:07 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-151.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 06:50:36 jrtayloriv: you can see the full R6RS expansion of the syntax for numbers here: https://ironscheme.svn.codeplex.com/svn/IronScheme/IronScheme/Compiler/NumberParser.y 06:50:38 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/8rrq26 06:53:09 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 06:54:31 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 06:55:20 lolcow [n=lolcow@dsl-243-31-144.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:04:55 -!- dstorrs [n=user@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:04:58 dstorrs` [n=user@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:07:48 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-194.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:45 -!- meme [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #scheme 07:12:45 -!- dstorrs` [n=user@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:17:47 Sveklo1 [n=sveklo1@a88-115-8-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 07:19:50 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 07:28:13 alright, sorry, now running MIT scheme -- how do i run files the way I would a ruby file (ruby blah.rb) and what do scheme files end in (blah.x+) 07:29:38 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 07:29:45 Fufie [n=poff@80.203.160.34] has joined #scheme 07:31:46 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 07:32:14 usually blah.scm 07:38:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:20 lowlycod1r [n=x@redemption.Stanford.EDU] has joined #scheme 07:40:51 -!- lowlycod1r [n=x@redemption.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:59 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 07:41:19 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 07:41:51 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:42:49 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 07:43:50 ASau [n=user@host207-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 07:45:48 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has left #scheme 07:47:28 -!- jedc [n=jedc@c-67-171-246-227.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:47:49 jedc [n=jedc@c-67-171-246-227.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:48:56 kmurph79: It's usually a good idea to at least have a look at the first chapters of your implementation's manual or manpage and see how it's run 07:49:24 XTL: i did 07:49:38 And it doesn't tell you how to run a script? 07:50:08 not that i found 07:50:26 Nice. :) 08:02:34 -!- patmaddox [n=patmaddo@ip68-111-70-47.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:05:30 optimizer 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#scheme 13:03:45 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@shunat236-8.shu.edu] has joined #scheme 13:07:00 sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:10:20 -!- jao [n=jao@75.Red-88-6-168.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:11:33 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@shunat236-8.shu.edu] has quit [] 13:12:40 offby1: cool, I'll play with it for a bit, expect stupid questions from me ;) 13:15:14 -!- Fufie [n=poff@80.203.160.34] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:17:25 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-146.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:18:22 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@41.243.31.144] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:20:37 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:22:40 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-31-144.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:24:01 jao [n=jao@88.6.168.75] has joined #scheme 13:28:38 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-himilrmvvemwoqjx] has quit ["Page 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If you must run it from a shell or another external program, use: mit-scheme --load foo.scm --eval '(%exit)' 15:30:47 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 15:35:28 nowhereman [n=PierreTH@193.251.63.232] has joined #scheme 15:39:48 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 15:43:43 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:49:59 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:53:06 ejs [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has joined #scheme 16:04:09 -!- masm [n=masm@bl10-5-22.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:04:14 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 16:04:41 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 16:04:56 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:12:35 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:55 -!- nowhereman [n=PierreTH@193.251.63.232] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:17:05 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:20:55 ejs2 [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has joined #scheme 16:27:32 xmonader [n=ahmed@196.205.141.2] has joined #scheme 16:29:50 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:52:32 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@shunat236-8.shu.edu] has quit [] 16:53:18 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:01 saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:00:07 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:01:34 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 17:06:02 -!- outworlder [n=stephen@187-27-60-93.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:07:10 outworlder [n=stephen@187.26.150.103] has joined #scheme 17:09:26 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 17:12:13 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:12:15 -!- outworlder [n=stephen@187.26.150.103] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:20 outworlder [n=stephen@187.27.29.86] has joined #scheme 17:14:39 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["leaving"] 17:14:42 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 17:15:06 Just a quick question - What comes out of the box with the commercial Chez Scheme product? Tools, libraries, OS/GUI bindings, IDE, debugger, other compiler features, project/library management tools, FFI oriented tools.....??? I know, say, what Harlequin CL looks(ed) like out of the box, but I have no idea what you get with a commercial Chez Scheme compiler. 17:15:11 offby1: ok, fine. 17:15:26 I imagine, Summermute66, that it looks like what the manual documents. 17:16:10 Any personal experiences here with commercial Chez? 17:17:20 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:18:30 arcfide has. 17:19:03 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-120-83.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 17:22:27 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:24:27 jed_c [n=jed@dyna6-216.cs.uoregon.edu] has joined #scheme 17:25:45 -!- camior [n=d@cpe-72-226-208-34.rochester.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 17:26:22 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 17:33:08 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.6.48] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:37:36 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-207.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:16 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-176-54.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:43:05 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-176-54.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #scheme 17:45:35 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 17:47:19 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:47:28 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 17:49:59 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:29 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 17:51:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:52:14 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Success] 17:55:20 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #scheme 17:57:51 Good grief! 17:58:49 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 18:01:13 french fries with sriracha <--- good .... grief <----bad 18:01:27 No? That sounds like a good idea to me. 18:01:44 It couldn't be more revolting than putting catsup on them, anyway. 18:02:41 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@shunat236-8.shu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:02:52 I hate ketchup. And if they're cooked properly, then they are *delicious* with (high-quality) sriracha on them. 18:02:54 Personally I like them with mayonnaise. 18:03:00 mayo++ 18:06:37 Riastradh, Speaking of grief -- thanks again for your help with the Scheme grammar, by the way. You saved me a lot of grief by pointing me to that grammar you wrote. I've got it where I can at least parse the Scheme now (although none of the semantic actions have been implemented yet, which is the actual difficult part). 18:07:06 Mayonnaise? Jiminy cricket, sir, that's disturbing. 18:07:12 What prompted me to interject `good grief', by the way, was SRFIs 103 and 104, which have just been put up. 18:07:16 semantics is the fun part :) 18:07:39 gnomon, mayonnaise is delicious -- it's how they do it in Belgium! 18:07:39 o lol Riastradh, I thought you were looking at my code again! 18:08:47 Riastradh, I'll grant Belgium chocolate and beer, but I'm afraid that they are Doing Fries Wrong(tm). 18:09:19 Riastradh: I know at least Derrick has been working on his SRFI for ages now 18:09:45 On this issue, gnomon, I am afraid it is you who is wrong, even if you have Vince and, whatsisname on a plane, to back you. 18:10:45 Have you ever tried it, anyway, gnomon? 18:10:52 mmm, those library names looks a bit batty to me 18:11:28 -!- xmonader [n=ahmed@196.205.141.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:14:11 Riastradh, I have tried it, yes, a few months ago. The discussion came up when my brother and I were talking about Inglourious Basterds, then Tarantino, then burgers with mayo, then *anything* with mayo. 18:14:44 The sriracha idea strikes me as an excellent one, though. 18:17:21 Hm. Now I'm all hungry. 18:19:59 Did you try it with good mayonnaise, at least? Most mayonnaise that one gets from a typical grocery store is pretty terrible, with sugar or other sweeteners and such nonsense. 18:21:23 leppie, I can believe that it took a long time to write so much verbiage. 18:22:34 Riastradh, no, I can't say that I've ever had particularly good mayonnaise. 18:22:56 `A Scheme system implementing this SRFI maintains a list of directory pathnames, relative to which it searches in order for libraries by transforming their component names into file names by mapping alphanumerics and hyphens to alphanumerics and hyphens, and mapping all others by percent-encoding.' 18:23:09 It could have been that simple. 18:23:10 But it wasn't. 18:24:19 `^main^'? What is that nonsense? 18:25:25 batty :) 18:25:36 at least it works on windows 18:25:37 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:26:33 It makes an exception for CON, COM, etc? :) 18:26:46 i still dont see the point of the 'main' library thing 18:27:06 he and aziz been debating on the like forever 18:27:08 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:23 s/the/that/ 18:28:46 i came to the conclusion that scheme still does not like being treating like java in 100's of little files with less than a handful of exports 18:29:01 s/treating/treated/ 18:29:52 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:23 at least java can handle circular references, psyntax (dunno about others) does not 18:30:31 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has left #scheme 18:32:09 Cycles in the library dependency graph, you mean? 18:32:24 yeah 18:32:52 Isn't that a bug? 18:33:12 im confused 18:33:26 That's hard with macros and top-level forms -- both for designers to specify and implement its semantics, and for programmers to understand and use whatever semantics is specified. 18:33:31 A cycle in the dependency graph seems like a bug, I mean 18:33:44 -!- kenjin2 [n=kenjin@163.152.180.181] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:56 obviously it is not required, but it could be handy 18:34:46 Some programmers take the position that cycles in the dependency graph are generally bugs, or at least generally indicative of badly organized programs. (I am one of these.) Some programmers take quite the opposite position. 18:34:53 perhaps I just really dislike INCLUDE 18:35:05 What does INCLUDE have to do with cycles in the dependency graph? 18:36:07 the ability to define inter-dependent libraries, vs having each in it's own file, and 'including' both to the same lexical location 18:42:39 in the most general case, cycles in the macro-dependecy graph just don't make sense 18:44:50 that makes sense :) 18:48:15 optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 18:48:41 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 18:49:20 could it not work at phase 0 (that's if I understand it at least a little correctly) ? 18:51:15 no, it can't 18:51:42 ok 18:51:46 if the code that implements macro a is defined in terms of macro b, and the same in reverse, you haven't defined anything at all 18:51:58 mutual recursion! 18:52:29 Elly: not really 18:52:44 mutual recursion among macros is fine 18:53:21 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-31-144.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:55 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-31-144.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:53:55 consider: 18:54:27 (define-syntax (m stx) (n stx)) 18:54:36 *leppie* stops thinking before something goes wrong (well I try again now, 1st time I disconnected...) 18:54:38 (define-syntax (n stx) (m stx)) 18:54:53 -!- rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-230-91.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:10 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-230-91.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 18:59:31 -!- kmurph79 [n=kmurph79@ip98-185-213-35.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 19:05:25 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-142-159.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:10:30 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-151.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@shunat236-8.shu.edu] has quit [] 19:13:16 -!- sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:15:18 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:16:27 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:17:18 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95.24.86.72] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:18:01 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:19:47 foof` [n=user@FL1-122-131-151-157.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 19:28:30 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:32:02 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:33:06 Which implementations of Scheme that purport to implement the R5RS without restrictions or limitations *don't* provide bignums? 19:33:20 Chicken, and what else? 19:34:40 chibi? 19:34:40 rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:34:47 Chibi provides bignums. 19:34:55 They might be optional, though. 19:37:20 -!- foof [n=user@FLH1Ahz107.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:49 So far in the "yes" category I have (in no particular order): Scheme48, MIT, Gambit, Gauche, PLT, Larceny, Chibi, Chez, SISC 19:37:58 (I need a table of R5RS implementations that I have installed.) 19:38:28 I have not tried Kawa. I don't think Bigloo counts as implementing the R5RS. What else? 19:38:36 guile? 19:38:49 Oh. I don't have it installed. Memory says it does, but I might be misremembering. 19:39:35 Yes, it does. 19:39:39 ok 19:40:56 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@shunat236-8.shu.edu] has joined #scheme 19:41:49 chandler, small note: MIT Scheme does not fully implement the R5RS. (In particular, the environment specifiers are missing, and multiple return values are broken.) 19:41:56 kmurph79 [n=kmurph79@ip98-185-210-202.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:39 Fair enough. 19:44:40 Kawa provides bignums. 19:44:53 I should imagine all the Java-based Schemes do. 19:44:57 Is there a list of implementations that purport to implement the R5RS? 19:45:15 Doubtful. Scheme48's the only one that comes to mind. 19:46:53 ... a list, or the only implementation? 19:46:59 The latter. 19:47:11 Perhaps Chibi does, too. 19:47:26 I think several implementations *purport* to implement the R5RS, even if there are bugs or issues. 19:47:33 Oh, and probably SISC, too. 19:48:11 I would say that Chez does, at least until it goes R6RS, does it not? And I haven't run into any obvious issues in the PLT R5RS language. 19:48:46 Could be. 19:49:01 Gambit in hygienic mode seems to work; I haven't run into any obvious issues there. Have you? 19:49:42 Chicken purports to implement the R5RS, and I think that its hygiene implementation choices are probably allowed, though not desirable. 19:49:45 Oh, that's right, Gambit was changed to support that by default. 19:50:09 Axioplase [n=Pied@AOrleans-253-1-37-109.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:51:57 Larceny's hygiene in R5RS mode is broken, but I believe it's just a bug and I'll at least accept that it *purports* to implement the R5RS. 19:52:56 I could look at Gauche as just being buggy; I wonder if Shiro would be open to the idea of replacing its implementation of hygiene with something that works. 20:00:46 -!- optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:01:19 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:04:05 Have I broken anything lately, mejja? 20:05:09 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@AOrleans-253-1-37-109.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["leaving"] 20:07:21 *mejja* flips a coin 20:07:37 I broke the random number generator?? I didn't touch that code! 20:08:09 On four evaluations of (RANDOM-INTEGER 2), I got 1 1 0 0. That distribution looks even enough to me. 20:10:29 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:10:42 There's only a one in sixteen chance of that particular distribution occurring by chance. I think you fixed the results! 20:13:11 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-131.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:15:09 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:50 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:23:48 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:24:32 *rotty* got ikarus.el to work with Ikarus' debugger backtraces :-) 20:26:43 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-48-189.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:31:49 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:35:52 rotty: You're crazy man. 20:39:50 Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:40:17 What have you done with me? I've vanished from the face of the intertube! 20:40:29 arcfide: 'cause I'm living in emacs? 20:40:35 it wasn't me. It was Riastrad1. 20:40:56 Where's that lousy loser, then, gnomon? 20:40:59 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:41:59 Jules! That's what his name was. 20:42:37 I officially have no idea what's going on in this conversation anymore. 20:43:10 Vince and whatsisname on a plane -- isname was Jules. 20:43:29 I didn't remember until a moment ago. 20:45:28 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43855.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 20:48:09 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:48:11 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:45 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:49:34 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:50:49 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-181.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 20:53:02 Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@87.181.70.239] has joined #scheme 20:55:33 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["_"] 20:58:28 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:59:37 Mr-Cat pasted "what am I doing wrong?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87592 20:59:56 I'm trying to define a set of mutually recursive instances of records 21:00:10 So that they reference each other 21:00:16 Is it possible for plt? 21:02:22 You must either use the SHARED form or mutation. LETREC isn't magic. 21:02:43 You can expand the LETREC to LET & SET!. 21:02:58 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:03:31 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:03:40 Aha 21:03:52 And setting record fileds is not just set! 21:03:56 Yes? 21:04:53 -!- jed_c [n=jed@dyna6-216.cs.uoregon.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:09:47 Aha 21:10:25 The whole struct should be mutable for `shared', not just the fields. Thanks. 21:11:17 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-151.res.pomona.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:12:38 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:14:03 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:24 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:08 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:19:48 -!- rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-183-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:21:03 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:21:20 Gah. Whoever thought that fire alarms should be designed to be so loud as to be physically painful to the ears of everyone nearby was a loonie. 21:22:07 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:56 outworlder_ [n=stephen@187-26-165-92.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #scheme 21:27:15 steiger__ [n=steiger@189.105.114.204] has joined #scheme 21:28:11 -!- outworlder [n=stephen@187.27.29.86] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:28:11 -!- outworlder_ is now known as outworlder 21:28:53 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@shunat236-8.shu.edu] has quit [] 21:31:06 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 21:39:10 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-181.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 21:39:16 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 21:39:58 -!- steiger [n=steiger@189.105.114.204] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:40:10 laurus [n=laurus@adsl-71-156-15-164.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:40:19 -!- laurus [n=laurus@adsl-71-156-15-164.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 21:46:50 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:53:44 Oh no! Riastradh's house is on fire! 21:54:09 No, it was just a fire drill in this building. 21:54:50 *foof`* douses Riastradh in water just to be safe 22:00:12 Mr-Cat pasted "A memory leak?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87599 22:00:54 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:08 If `to' also calls something with `switch' in the code above (and so forth recursively) - will it lead to a memory leak? 22:01:22 What memory are you concerned about leaking? 22:02:13 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:03:16 Riastradh: Hm... It might be the continuation of the call `(to)'... but now when you ask that... I dunno 22:04:12 There are three continuations here: that of the call to SWITCH, that of the call to PRINTF, and that of the call to STORE. The continuation with which you call TO is (approximately) identical to that with which SWITCH was called in the first place. 22:05:41 Riastradh: That "approximately" is what I'm worried about. 22:05:43 (I say `approximately' because the truth is a little more complicated, since it has to do with the aggregate of all tail calls, not just individual ones; there is no bound on the number of active tail calls, even if some of them (a bounded number of them) might use storage. For example, an interpreter might remember an execution history of the last k tail calls, for some constant k.) 22:05:43 Riastradh: I think the theory is that the alarm should be loud enough to wake those who are hard of hearing. 22:06:22 (Or, tail calls might cons frame objects that are garbage collected.) 22:06:45 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-31-144.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:07:18 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-31-144.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:07:19 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 22:07:32 Riastradh: What I'm trying to do with `switch' is to replace the continuation of the code which calls `switch' with some arbitrary function. 22:07:53 So, the call to `switch' is not going to return. 22:08:16 If it won't return, why did you store its continuation somewhere? 22:08:36 Because I may call them with `switch' later 22:08:48 -!- samth [n=samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:08:50 So it may return later after all. 22:09:42 Well yes 22:10:31 Anyway, if it never returns - won't that cause a leak? 22:10:57 Sure, unless you dispose of the reference to its continuation that you stored somewhere. 22:11:01 A small one 22:11:09 Ok 22:12:01 So, only that stored continuation will consume space? 22:12:29 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:12:48 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:12:52 Yes...? 22:13:02 I'm still not sure what you're concerned about. 22:13:32 Well... I'm still not sure myself 22:14:30 I'm not quite good with continuations so far. 22:14:48 And it is 2 am here 22:15:06 Think of it by CPS transformation. 22:15:28 Yeah, thanks... I think that'll help. 22:16:37 I know what cps transformation does and how call/cc is defined in transformed code, but when It comes to applying this knowledge to real code, I often get confused. 22:21:11 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@static-71-250-255-82.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:26:43 schoppen1auer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 22:26:55 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@static-71-250-255-82.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:27:02 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:30:43 -!- schoppen1auer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:07 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@static-71-250-255-82.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:48 Can I safely assume that (foo bar baz) is always a procedure application, if foo is bound to a procedure in the current environment? Or is it possible to change the syntax rules so that this is no longer the case? 22:37:50 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 22:38:35 If you know the binding of FOO, then you know the meaning of (FOO BAR BAZ). 22:40:19 unless bar or baz = omega 22:40:57 No, that doesn't affect the *meaning* of the expression (FOO BAR BAZ). 22:41:11 Moreover, if BAR and BAZ are as literally written, then they are variable references. 22:41:37 As such, they can't cause non-termination. 22:41:49 OK, thanks. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't some wierd way to alter that, that I didn't know about. 22:42:06 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 22:42:08 doesn't syntax-id-rules expand identifiers in arbitrary position 22:42:48 That is a non-standard extension with which I am not familiar (although I can guess at what it might do). 22:43:11 If it does what I guess it does, then it violates the property I just described. 22:43:45 However, you will still know that (FOO BAR BAZ) is a procedure call, even if its operand expressions may be evaluated counterintuitively. 22:43:47 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:44:04 Provided, as before, that you know the binding of FOO. 22:44:25 right 22:45:05 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:59:43 -!- yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@ludios.net] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 22:59:52 yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@ludios.net] has joined #scheme 23:05:13 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054339.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:13:06 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:11 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:56 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:18:19 Okay, okay, it's time for one a dem crazy Thing One suggestion-fests? 23:18:21 s/?/! 23:18:36 Some people don't like the name "binary port", considering that we are stuck with "port" for textual port. 23:19:01 But if we just use another generic name like "channel", newbies will find it painful to memorize which are ports and which are channels. 23:19:03 `Port' itself was chosen as an alternative to another term, `stream'. 23:19:07 *jcowan* nods. 23:19:17 Because streams are lazy data structures. 23:19:23 (Ports are too, but less obviously.) 23:19:42 So we need a word that connotes binary, or u8, or blob, or something of the sort. 23:19:44 Well, because Gerry had used the word `stream' in his book and didn't want students to be confused. So they changed it to `port'. 23:19:55 *jcowan* nods. 23:21:13 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:22:25 By the way, I'll fix the bug that you identified in MIT Scheme on r6rs-discuss. 23:22:31 I figure any terminology that gets picked here should serve pretty well. 23:22:31 About EXPT, that is. 23:22:37 Any port in a storm, after all. 23:22:40 *gnomon* ducks and runs 23:23:45 Other terms: channel, line, tube, conduit, culvert. 23:24:05 Source/sink! 23:24:08 When I take over the world, I'll use two separate objects, sources and sinks, but...hey! 23:24:12 I want those terms! 23:24:16 Mine! 23:24:18 I was there first! 23:24:25 THE LOGS SAY OTHERWISE SIR 23:24:45 Vwee hee hee hee! 23:24:52 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-120-83.vinet.ba] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:25:24 jcowan, on a serious note: do you consider binary ports to be inherently very different from textual ports? 23:25:37 If so, is that difference significant enough that they merit an entirely different term? 23:28:05 My current proposal does not distinguish, but it doesn't allow mixed operations either: it's implementation-dependent what happens if you do read-char on a port and then read-u8. 23:28:07 MononcQc [n=mononcqc@96.20.225.62] has joined #scheme 23:29:03 How about binary-source, binary-sink, code-point-source, and code-point-sink? 23:29:37 The first two sound good to me. 23:29:43 or perhaps just source/sink 23:29:44 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:29:57 Sorry, I meant `octet', not `binary'. 23:30:12 I like binary! 23:30:20 Wait, let me expand on that. 23:30:35 I'd like to be able to pull in an arbitrary number of bits from a source rather than bytes! 23:30:46 Well, "rather" - perhaps "as well as". 23:30:52 Octets, not bytes. 23:31:03 True, true. 23:31:15 I think that efficient bit-level binary parsing is too hairy to be worthy of consideration here. 23:31:18 Oh, and should code-point really be hyphenated? 23:31:19 Ben Goetter would rather add file-based constructors and predicates so that binary and text ports would be disjoint. 23:31:29 gnomon: no. 23:31:36 gnomon, yes. 23:31:43 nrgh 23:32:04 The alternative is to spacinate it, but we can't do that in Scheme, unless we sneak in high-numbered code points for non-breaking spaces that don't act as delimiters. 23:32:09 There are no rules for what should be hyphenated (except that multi-word compounds are hyphenated when used as modifiers). 23:32:38 Failure to hyphenate appropriately leads to silly constructions such as `hashtable' and `bytevector'. 23:32:40 Historically we have moved from base ball to base-ball to baseball, and now the first two are archaic. 23:33:01 Riastradh is spouting essentialist propaganda. 23:33:12 What is this `base[-]ball' thing of which you speak? 23:33:15 lazy1 [n=tebeka@76.91.167.182] has joined #scheme 23:33:25 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:34:32 Maybe when hash tables and byte/octet vectors have aged a century, we'll omit the separator. Until then, I maintain that `hashtable', `bytevector', and `codepoint' all look silly, even if I have been guilty of the last one on one occasion or another. 23:35:37 Unicode makes it "code point" officially, but codepoint is quite common. 23:35:41 I have not seen code-point. 23:35:50 Code unit, otoh, remains open. 23:36:04 UNICODE-CODE-POINT? is a procedure built-in to MIT Scheme. 23:40:22 Riastrad1 [n=rias@pool-151-203-199-97.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:40:30 dzog [n=dzog@denali.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:40:30 Uh oh. 23:41:23 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 23:42:10 *poof* 23:42:17 No, that didn't work. 23:47:02 Riastrad1: So...regarding MAYBE-RESUME and WITH-SUSPENSION-CLAIMED or whatever it is. Could you possibly move those out into their own file if they deserve their own space? 23:48:19 -!- dzog [n=dzog@denali.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 23:49:22 No. Their implementation is tied to the implementation of primitive rendezvous. 23:49:37 The implementations are tied; the interfaces are not. 23:50:31 The R6RS may have no nice way to express this, but that's a problem of the R6RS, not a problem of what is being expressed. 23:51:55 Riastradh: I fail to see how their implementations are tied to primitive rendezvous. 23:52:38 The implementation of primitive rendezvous does not appear to depend on MAYBE-RESUME, for example. 23:53:28 It doesn't call MAYBE-RESUME, but the structure of suspensions is tied to the way that they are used in the primitive rendezvous layer. 23:54:08 Are you saying that they both rely on the same datastructure? 23:55:21 Riastradh: I guess I am failing to see what would fundamentally prevent them from being separate library interfaces. 23:55:24 ada2358_ [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:55:24 I'm saying that they are to be understood jointly, not separately. 23:55:37 Well, okay, but they are still separate interfaces. 23:56:01 That's right, because the interfaces MAYBE-RESUME and WITH-SUSPENSION-CLAIMED are independent of how they are implemented at the primitive rendezvous layer, and of the primitive rendezvous layer itself. 23:56:01 -!- lazy1 [n=tebeka@76.91.167.182] has left #scheme 23:56:42 One could imagine implementing them at the rendezvous layer, which is how it would have worked had I made a separate suspender abstraction in scm-rendezvous which didn't have a separate primitive rendezvous layer. 23:58:13 Riastradh: All I'm saying is that if you want them treated like separate interfaces it makes sense to separate them into separate files, even if you want to understand them together, which I'm not sure I get. Since they are two different libraries, they shouldn't be "understood" as a single piece of contiguous code. 23:58:27 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:58:46 The *implementations* are tied. The way that suspensions are structured is designed only because the primitive rendezvous layer needs them structured that way. 23:58:51 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:59:02 Okay, that's fine. 23:59:18 So the implementations belong together. 23:59:31 If the R6RS has no nice way to organize this, then you'll have to use a way that is not nice, such as several intermediate libraries. 23:59:34 I don't get that part.