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02:59:41 It's very good. 03:04:18 duoc0rn [n=34613234@heyah20909nc-2.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #scheme 03:04:51 -!- duoc0rn [n=34613234@heyah20909nc-2.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has left #scheme 03:07:17 -!- nasloc__ [n=vzloct_2@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 03:07:25 timchen1` [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #scheme 03:09:26 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176201233.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:54 -!- samth [n=samth@c-67-186-134-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:00 whose post where now, TimMc? 03:14:34 synx: It was linked from the URL you posted: http://ejohn.org/blog/eulogy-to-_why/ 03:14:44 John Resig, head honcho of jQuery 03:16:11 *sigh* I assume there are enough people who actually know _why in person or have reliable contact information 03:16:38 that if something is actually wrong, someone will be in a position to notice. 03:24:34 drybowser6 [n=drybowse@adsl-70-226-232-35.dsl.spfdil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:31:17 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:31:58 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:46:43 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 03:48:18 amttc [n=alex@adsl-190-179-96.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 03:48:47 -!- amttc [n=alex@adsl-190-179-96.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 03:50:45 emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-mgyjppfioizkulwo] has joined #scheme 03:50:57 eli: are you here? 03:51:31 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:04 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:53:26 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:53:33 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:54:07 emma: Better to just ask your question or leave a memo. "Here" is a relative term when it comes to IRC, since people may walk away from the computer at any time, or be present but paying attention to something else. 03:59:33 Then again, I see people "ping" each other all the time, so they must be getting something out of it. :-P 03:59:40 Yeah by 'here' i mean, is your attention with us, as of the moment I am posting this. :) 04:01:38 I wonder how amenable IRC is to layering in arbitrary metadata. 04:11:38 emma: Yes? 04:13:41 eli: ohhai! 04:14:44 eli: I just wanted to tell you, you must be one of the coolest people I have met on IRC. I wish I could be knowledgeable about the things you are an expert about. 04:14:44 emma: shalom. 04:15:05 *eli* blushes... 04:15:29 (That, I didn't expect...) 04:18:50 -!- drybowser6 [n=drybowse@adsl-70-226-232-35.dsl.spfdil.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:24:22 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 04:24:44 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:27:36 eli: You have a fan club! 04:28:39 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:29:37 TimMc: Well, in you're case I hope that it justifies the 4 credit price. 04:33:07 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:39:40 incubot: Hey, where's *your* fan club? 04:39:43 i d'no, I read something somewhere about a lisp club in baltimore having monthly meetings and entertained the idea of attending... 04:40:51 incubot: Don't you think you should respond with the first message *after* a random message with a same word? 04:40:53 so yesterday I had a question; I wondered if you'd have an opinion. I have a random number generator that generates _pairs_ of random numbers: call it (generate-pair). I'd like to write a wrapper, call it (just-one), that calls generate-pair as needed, but returns just one at a time. It's easy to do this using assignment: just-one maintains a cache, and updates it as needed. But I was wondering if there's a simple way to 04:42:03 incubot, yeah, your pattern is too predictable. 04:42:05 that doesn't really happen, since it changes in a predictable way 04:42:53 *TimMc* 's head explodes slightly at that 04:43:20 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 04:43:31 incubot: Do you ever suffer from Gödelian Input Syndrome? 04:43:34 they need to put strlcpy in glibc, but IIRC the maintainer has a severe case of NIH syndrome 04:44:05 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 04:47:28 minion: Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 04:47:29 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 04:48:33 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 04:49:00 Wow, minion has flood control. It stopped talking to me in /msg after I asked it a few nonsense questions. 04:49:23 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit ["off"] 04:58:00 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 05:02:19 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 05:07:25 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 05:08:24 Ringo48 [n=Ringo48@97-122-156-185.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:18:50 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:18:58 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:20:48 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 05:40:06 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 05:46:59 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:55:01 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:57:12 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:02:32 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:03:02 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 06:12:41 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:15:53 xrt [n=xrt@adsl-99-50-120-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:20:32 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:24:13 rmrfchik [n=rmrfchik@linuxhacker.ru] has joined #scheme 06:24:16 hi 06:24:19 hi 06:27:51 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:31:53 -!- emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-mgyjppfioizkulwo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:33:56 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@80.65.72.29] has joined #scheme 06:36:03 HG` [n=HG@xdslgr010.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 06:37:25 ASau [n=user@host167-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:40:53 -!- xrt [n=xrt@adsl-99-50-120-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 06:45:19 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:46:38 I can't find the page where chicken compilation steps are described 06:55:30 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:00:53 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:03:36 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-kwgmycxbhtqqbatt] has joined #scheme 07:09:29 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:32:11 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:34:15 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 07:50:01 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 07:50:28 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 08:00:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:09:07 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:09:35 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:11:19 fun to watch the mit-scheme mailing list's discussion about git.. makes me not want to use it ;) 08:21:27 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 08:38:48 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-55-207-173.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:40:02 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@131.173.18.185] has joined #scheme 08:45:17 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-218-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:16:08 ecraven: why? 09:28:43 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:31 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 09:31:16 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 09:34:42 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:38:13 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 09:40:20 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:40:58 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:41:50 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:56:22 they have lots and lots of problems 09:56:29 migrating from cvs to git 09:58:06 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:00:15 ah, perhaps they shouldn't have used cvs in the first place =) 10:06:24 indeed :) 10:06:53 (Unless that was a very old repo, then there probably wasn't anything better working around) 10:08:44 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:08:48 the repository has been around for several decades ;) 10:18:32 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:25:19 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@131.173.18.185] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:33:35 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-130-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:54:26 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:06:14 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 11:06:29 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 11:07:29 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-204-209.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:14:10 TJarl [n=Jarl@awbaukom.nfit.au.dk] has joined #scheme 11:17:15 and` [n=hufs4@ti0035a340-0444.bb.online.no] has joined #scheme 11:19:01 haesbaert [n=haesbaer@c925a8c5.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:47:03 -!- haesbaert [n=haesbaer@c925a8c5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:51:40 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:55:15 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:58:00 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 11:59:26 danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-226.autorev.intellispace.net] has joined #scheme 11:59:49 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-151-199-60-39.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 12:06:00 samth [n=samth@c-67-186-134-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:06:43 defrg [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 12:07:17 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:07:20 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 12:07:49 -!- defrg [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:08:03 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:08:07 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 12:08:16 mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has joined #scheme 12:12:06 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Client Quit] 12:20:40 -!- underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [] 12:22:06 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-196.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:25:12 zachb [n=zachb@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:25:21 Hello everyone. 12:25:25 Good morning. 12:25:45 Hi Dr. Nick! 12:26:14 I kind of forgot how to open another .exe from PLT Scheme. I know it uses (require scheme/system), but I don't remember the actual command. 12:26:18 Any help? 12:31:19 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 12:35:35 zachb: `system' or `process' or one of their variants. 12:35:48 (or `subprocess' if you want the more primitive form.) 12:36:31 masm [n=masm@bl7-196-61.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:40:39 -!- danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-226.autorev.intellispace.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:43:04 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-204-209.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:44:11 http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.abs.php#58508 12:44:21 *foof* is glad he doesn't have to deal with the PHP community 12:46:19 $a = $a * (-1); ? 12:46:24 *sjamaan* facepalms 12:46:41 :) 12:46:43 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 12:50:09 -!- zachb [n=zachb@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has quit ["http://irc2go.com/"] 12:50:45 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 12:51:34 You're reading the comments backwards -- that seems to be a suggestion for making a variable toggle between two values. 13:00:20 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 13:02:05 sjamaan: what about: $a = - $a; ? 13:04:20 eli: I thought he was suggesting an alternative for nabs 13:04:22 eggrer [i=5db68431@gateway/web/freenode/x-onmppfywmkdxwnyp] has joined #scheme 13:04:42 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 13:05:23 foof: Actually, function call overhead in PHP is kinda high 13:06:04 (well, mostly method invocation. Not sure about plain old functions) 13:06:28 -!- edwardk [n=edwardkm@209-6-103-127.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:06:52 edwardk1 [n=edwardkm@209.6.103.127] has joined #scheme 13:11:08 Does scheme (PLT scheme) has function to print internal state of argument of any type(like (repr 'x)->"(symbol x)", (repr '(1 2))->"(list 1 2)"? Or what should I use to print tons of debugging info? 13:12:49 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:13:10 eggrer: The external representation of most values is pretty easy to read. 13:14:59 eggrer: Oh, I misunderstood your question, I think. 13:15:08 Ok, so how can I get representation(especially of objects) in printable form? 13:16:21 annodomini [n=lambda@64.222.189.25] has joined #scheme 13:16:25 (display (new frame% [label "example"])) doesn't print anything besides type =( 13:16:35 cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.162.86.164] has joined #scheme 13:16:37 eggrer: Off the top of my head, (format "~a" mumble) will turn anything into a string. 13:17:26 Oh, GUI objects? No idea how good the external rep of those is gonna be. 13:17:29 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:33 Try it out! 13:17:47 eggrer: Would (display (format "~a" YOURSTUFF)) work? 13:18:45 No better than (display): it displays "#(struct:object:frame% ...)" for (format "~a" (new frame% [label "example"])) 13:19:21 Whta exactly are you looking for here? 13:19:30 "What", even. 13:19:56 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has joined #scheme 13:21:45 -!- eggrer [i=5db68431@gateway/web/freenode/x-onmppfywmkdxwnyp] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 13:21:53 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 13:24:02 TimMc pasted "Debug macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86122 13:24:28 Hey, where'd eggrer go? 13:26:02 ... Aren't you missing a `call-with-values' there? 13:27:17 chandler: I suppose so. 13:30:39 Hm. Consolas 10 looks remarkably ugly in DrScheme. 13:31:15 -!- cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.162.86.164] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:31:38 finalprefix [n=finalpre@59.162.86.164] has joined #scheme 13:32:21 -!- finalprefix [n=finalpre@59.162.86.164] has quit [Client Quit] 13:36:18 chandler: I'm using Inconsolata 11, which looks lovely. 13:36:37 On which OS? 13:36:40 This is on Windows 7. 13:36:51 On OS X, I prefer DejaVu Sans Mono. 13:37:03 chandler: PLT has issues with rendering anti-aliased fonts on Windows 13:37:09 Ubuntu Intrepid. 13:37:23 Hm. I don't often use DrScheme on Windows; how do I get Emacs-like keybindings? I was rather surprised at what C-a did. 13:37:38 I have no idea :) 13:39:00 chandler: I suppose it had the normal behavior of "Select &All"? 13:39:18 Yes. Which is normal for Windows, but not for my expectations. 13:39:30 On OS X, it does what I'd expect it to. 13:39:41 Maybe that's just a result of the NSTextView keybindings, though? 13:39:50 On OS X it was [Apple]+[A]? 13:40:05 Yeah. C-a does beginning-of-line. 13:40:12 C-k does kill-line, etc. 13:40:30 leppie annotated #86122 "syntax-trace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86122#1 13:41:17 TimMc: I found that quite handy for tracing syntax-case expansion 13:41:48 leppie|work: That's cool, but I'm not sure why you're telling me. 13:42:25 lol ok 13:43:07 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 13:43:13 I still haven't used syntax-case. I'm comfortable with syntax-rules and x-rename and haven't yet explored the middle ground. 13:43:22 -!- ponzao___ [n=vesam@xdsl-83-150-86-25.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:43:59 RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.192.112] has joined #scheme 13:44:22 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@80.65.72.29] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:45:08 Aha! Preferences -> Editing -> General -> Enable keybindings in menu 13:46:07 TimMc: once you get used to syntax-case, you never need anything else :) 13:46:22 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-92.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:47:03 leppie|work: Yikes. I can't seem to read that definition. 13:47:34 read what? 13:47:42 `syntax-trace'. 13:47:56 does it not work in your scheme? 13:47:58 Perhaps it's because *all* of the variables are one letter long. 13:48:14 I haven't tried it, because I can't understand what it does. 13:48:19 finalprefix [n=finalpre@59.162.86.164] has joined #scheme 13:48:20 oh lol 13:48:23 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 13:48:28 chandler: I just compared Consolas 10 on DrScheme and on Emacs (23), and it has the same screwups (eg, in "a" the left edge is thicker). 13:48:51 I honestly haven't tried it in Emacs; I'm just comparing it to a regular application (e.g. Notepad) 13:48:58 -!- finalprefix [n=finalpre@59.162.86.164] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:05 It's virtually unreadable at 10pt in DrScheme. 13:49:10 finalprefix [n=finalpre@59.162.86.164] has joined #scheme 13:49:14 I use 9pt Consolas 13:49:30 leppie|work: That's news to me (anialias problems) -- on Windows there's not much choice for rendering fonts, so it should be the same as other applications. 13:49:58 e = expression, i = id, c = clause, p = pattern, t = test, r = result 13:49:59 There's nothing like Liberation Mono in the morning. 13:50:17 Isn't that the metric-compatible Courier New clone? 13:50:19 If so, yech. 13:50:27 -!- finalprefix [n=finalpre@59.162.86.164] has quit [Client Quit] 13:50:39 chandler: And to get the more Emacs-like bindings, there's a switch somewhere to turn off menu shortcuts. (I don't know where it is -- personally, I moved to `cua-mode' on Emacs, and I'm happy with it.) 13:50:58 eli: I'll check tonite, i renders ok, the first time, then it seems to double render, like a backbuffer that has not been cleared between repaints 13:51:31 chandler: I like Courier. 13:52:05 leppie|work: This sounds like some kind of bug -- if you can reproduce it, that would be very helpful. Especially since it sounds like it can make rendering characters slower, which is the biggest cause of slowdowns in DrScheme. 13:52:40 *eli* throws up at the general direction of danking's serifs 13:52:53 =] 13:52:56 -!- TJarl [n=Jarl@awbaukom.nfit.au.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:53:19 eli: I found that shortcut. 13:53:30 Here's what Consolas 10 looks like in DrScheme, versus Notepad: 13:53:31 http://brian.mastenbrook.net/content/images/DrSchemeConsolas.png 13:53:48 That shows it in the Preferences window, but it does look that bad in the editor window too 13:53:48 chandler: Yes, I just saw in the logs. 13:54:42 I just pasted that screenshot, so you couldn't have seen it before now :-) 13:55:38 chandler: change the font smoothing, to not be system-wide, IIRC 13:55:46 chandler: I've seen that you found the keyboard thing. 13:55:55 Ah. 13:55:59 eh, I don't like aliasing, I like my fonts painfully sharp edged 13:56:19 eeeek 13:56:20 leppie|work: Ah! That did it. 13:56:26 higepon601 [n=taro@FL1-122-133-108-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:56:33 chandler: yes, one thing to try is to change the smoothing; but if it persists, then a screenshot with the same text can be more helpful. 13:56:49 *sigh* 13:56:53 chandler: it's not fixed, open the editor, now paste some text, then click a few times in the editor, you might see the 'bleeding' effect 13:56:59 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:57:02 Changing the "font smoothing" setting to "All" fixed the text. 13:57:09 Do you still want a same-text screenshot, eli? 13:57:54 chandler: No, if that solved it, then my guess is that there is nothing to do -- I'll mail Matthew in any case, but I don't expect some problem in there. 13:58:12 ("there" = the code that chooses the anialiasing.) 13:58:33 any aliasing :) 13:58:38 Oh, and... 13:58:40 *eli* throws up at the general direction of danking's visible pixels 13:59:17 the only font that looks good in non-aliased is that fixed system one 14:00:29 downloading PLT @ a whopping 6KB/sec 14:01:28 leppie|work: IIRC, my modem was faster than that. 14:01:46 I can call you and read the bits out loud faster than that. 14:02:01 Smoke signals are faster than that. 14:02:24 leppie|work: I disagree; Codec Terminal Text looks quite good in non-aliased, but most people have never heard of it. 14:02:35 *chandler* downloaded PLT this morning at 2MB/s. 14:02:37 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-92.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:02:48 http://www.all-day-breakfast.com/cannam/codec.html 14:02:55 You might recognize that as the font in the lisppaste captcha. 14:03:13 eli: =P 14:03:15 -!- RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.192.112] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:26 I just can't get used to the feeling that everything is fuzzy 14:04:34 danking: Use big fonts. Don't listen to the 10-11 point freaks. 14:05:10 chandler: I don't see why a captcha is necessary for lisppaste. Just check for large numbers of parens! 14:05:24 Heh! Well, it's not used *only* for lisp. 14:05:37 http://paste.lisp.org/list/webkit 14:05:48 (among others) 14:05:49 -!- samth [n=samth@c-67-186-134-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:06:39 eli: Perhaps I'll give that a try later 14:07:41 chandler: Why did you got to the effort of rendering the graphics in html tables? 14:08:14 It's a group of divs, actually, and it was fun to do. 14:09:19 For the plt bugs page I just drew words with the mouse, then saved it at an extremely low jpeg quality -- the result looks crappy enough. 14:09:50 Heh. Well, there have been cases of spammers using OCR tools, but I doubt anything that's not a high-profile target would get hit with that. 14:10:21 The lisppaste captcha *never changes*, and it works fine. I think it has mostly to do with the fact that there's a token sent with the form which must be sent back by the client. 14:10:25 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 14:10:27 MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@92.36.191.83] has joined #scheme 14:11:46 You can see the captcha-making code here, if you're interested: http://paste.lisp.org/system-server/show/webutils/simple-captcha (Warning! Contains CL and LOOP!) 14:12:04 chandler: Well, I think it can be pretty diffcult to OCR the text, but in any case we didn't have any problems since. (And the captcha is a random one out of three, which changes every night, so it's not really high on the random department.) 14:12:46 (Phew -- that's a lot of code.) 14:13:59 chandler: Other techniques: Reverse captcha (hidden field that must remain empty), minimum time before post, and silly names for fields ("zipcode" for a URL field, for example). 14:14:39 That last trick is *great* for certain types of spambots. 14:14:49 I'd actually really like a version of "denyhosts" for spambots. 14:14:55 I'm not sure why it hasn't been done already. 14:15:00 It's terrible for debugging and code readability, of course. 14:15:50 12 minutes remaining... 14:15:59 Well, readability's not an issue: just use an XML->XML rewriting rule in the last step to frob your forms! It should be fast; after all, everyone's got natively-compiled XML rewriting at hand, right? 14:16:35 Well, at least those of us who can extend our language to do that have it. :-) 14:16:55 chandler: There is http://www.projecthoneypot.org/ <-- I've donated an MX record or two to them. 14:17:19 That's for email, right? I was thinking about form spammers. 14:18:54 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:19:17 I wouldn't be surprised if the form spammers and email harvesters are coming from the same machines. 14:19:19 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:25 It seems like a botnet issue. 14:25:51 jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has joined #scheme 14:26:04 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-218-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:26:57 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-218-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:30:35 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:32:41 -!- ASau [n=user@host167-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:34:16 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 14:37:42 eli: it fonoshed downloading. I dont seem to be able to recreate the issue I saw in the editor, but it is very present in the Macro Stepper. 14:38:56 else everything looks good :) 14:39:51 thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@122.110.4.231] has joined #scheme 14:44:19 -!- higepon601 [n=taro@FL1-122-133-108-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:46 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:50:42 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:51:53 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 15:00:54 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslgr010.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:10 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:09:28 HG` [n=HG@xdslgr010.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 15:13:03 ejs [n=eugen@116-109-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 15:18:25 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@116-109-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:27:10 -!- and` [n=hufs4@ti0035a340-0444.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:29:01 leppie|work: Can you describe what exactly you do to see the problem, and how the problems looks? 15:29:40 ponzao___ [n=vesam@xdsl-83-150-86-25.nebulazone.fi] has joined #scheme 15:30:14 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslgr010.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:57 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-37.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 15:38:02 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:41:17 -!- MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@92.36.191.83] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:42:46 yes eli, back at home now 15:43:33 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-muoklpgeawsrymyf] has joined #scheme 15:43:33 Sveklo [n=sveklo@gw0.stadinetti.fi] has joined #scheme 15:47:49 hi 15:48:16 rudybot, eval (/ 22222 3600) 15:48:17 Edico: your sandbox is ready 15:48:18 Edico: ; Value: 11111/1800 15:48:45 rudybot, eval (/ 22222 3600.0) 15:48:46 Edico: ; Value: 6.172777777777778 15:49:21 eli: http://imgur.com/7dU58.png , it got it tyo go to the 'bottom' look, when I clicked on 'page' (after 'module') 15:49:51 how do I round up a floating point value to an integer? 15:50:25 Round up, as in round toward positive infinity? Use the CEILING procedure. 15:50:27 rudybot: eval (exact (round 1.1)) 15:50:27 leppie: error: reference to undefined identifier: exact 15:50:41 rudybot: eval (inexact->exact (round 1.1)) 15:50:42 leppie: ; Value: 1 15:51:43 rudybot, eval (inexact->exact (/ 22222 3600)) 15:51:44 Edico: ; Value: 11111/1800 15:51:57 ejs [n=eugen@211-51-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 15:52:04 you have to round ceiling floor or truncate it 15:52:25 rudybot, eval (inexact->exact (round (/ 22222 3600))) 15:52:25 Edico: ; Value: 6 15:54:03 rudybot, eval (round (/ 22222 3600)) 15:54:04 Edico: ; Value: 6 15:54:31 it works without inexact->exact 15:54:37 that will probably be better, as you wont loose precision 15:54:58 yes, you did ask how to convert a floating point number :p 15:56:49 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@gw0.stadinetti.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:24 Sveklo [n=sveklo@gw0.stadinetti.fi] has joined #scheme 15:57:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@211-51-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:08:12 lisppaste 16:08:19 lisppaste, url 16:08:19 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 16:09:17 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-218-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:37 kenpp [n=kenpp@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 16:15:41 leppie pasted "best way to handle this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86132 16:17:08 feel free to comment at your own time, for the above 16:17:19 open question to #scheme 16:19:31 leppie annotated #86132 "implementation links" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86132#1 16:29:23 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslfj023.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 16:34:00 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:47:20 dg_ [n=chatzill@host86-168-170-173.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:48:23 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:49:07 p1d annotated #86132 "how about..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86132#2 16:49:29 leppie: ^^ 16:51:13 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has quit [] 16:54:52 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 16:56:45 p1dzkl: thats nice, but it wont match correctly :) 16:57:12 (test 1 's 1) would fail 16:57:36 I made that mistake a few days back 17:00:02 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 17:00:20 http://www.google.com/˙ 17:00:58 ? 17:02:38 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.122] has left #scheme 17:04:17 Yikes. 17:04:30 Sorry. 17:04:47 google is sorry too, apparently 17:05:17 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 17:06:25 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:01 HG` [n=HG@xdsler073.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 17:10:51 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdsler073.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:10:56 jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has joined #scheme 17:11:59 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 17:12:57 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@gw0.stadinetti.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:13:10 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176209087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:30:06 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176222160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:33 -!- dg_ [n=chatzill@host86-168-170-173.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729211433]"] 17:39:50 sepulte [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-36.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:41:03 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:41:08 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:41:11 -!- sepulte is now known as sepult 17:58:22 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has quit [] 17:59:21 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:00:50 rjack [n=rjack@93-42-55-113.ip85.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 18:06:31 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-55-207-173.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:09:09 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:09:38 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-196-61.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:15:22 -!- rjack [n=rjack@93-42-55-113.ip85.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:46 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:18:54 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:17 acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:54 Oh dear. The workers took the back door out, and *then* they realized that the new door won't fit. >_< 18:21:13 pemleco [n=sveklo@cs27002244.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:21:49 I guess I'll have to sleep in the hallway with a machete. 18:22:46 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 18:23:03 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 18:25:15 lol 18:30:12 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.14.211.8] has joined #scheme 18:30:21 Good afternoon, everyone. 18:30:25 karme [n=user@static.179.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 18:31:02 I finally have virtual machines, so now I can do lots and lots of testing of my code on various platforms. Oh joy. :-| 18:31:03 Hello, arcfide. 18:31:32 On the plus side, Vista is actually responsive in this VM. More so than when installed natively. I must have stripped it down or something. 18:31:56 On the minus side, apparently you don't have access to Windows 7 yet. 18:32:04 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-197.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 18:32:36 chandler: Hahaha....when it is successfully released and all that junk, I'll take a look at it. But I'm going to need to test on lots of platforms, so i'll still need Vista around. 18:33:45 chandler: I'm never really excited about running any version of Windows. 18:33:53 It is bad enough that I am running Linux at the moment. 18:34:46 I don't think there's any operating system I would be *excited* about, but so far I've not seen anything in Windows 7 that isn't an improvement over Vista. 18:35:04 Well, I take that back - they rendered UAC worthless because people complained about these funny little prompt things showing up. 18:35:16 mmc [n=mima@cs137104.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:35:22 chandler: Well, it was worthless to begin with, methinks. 18:35:50 Why do you say that? 18:37:19 chandler: Well, it's always popping up, and it doesn't really help people who are used to not thinking about security. You get used to it and just always click it. It pops up enough to make the uninformed user not know whether it should be popping up or not. They either disable it because it is annoying, or they ignore it and click away. 18:37:25 That's my experience. 18:37:40 And the users who know enough to read and understand what they are dong, don't need it to begin with. 18:38:24 I'd disagree with that last assertion. Before UAC was implemented, there was no consistent approach to privilege escalation in the Windows platform, which meant that most people who knew what they were doing ran as Administrator all the time. 18:39:09 I think the frequency of the prompts is an issue, but the way that Microsoft went about "solving" that in Windows 7 renders the whole feature worthless, since you can programmatically set it to "always elevate". 18:40:13 UAC brought two substantial improvements to the security situation - one, I can have a computer with just one user account, and it runs with dropped privs most of the time, without having to worry about some nasty zero-click malware getting to the Administrator level without any user intervention. 18:40:28 *arcfide* shrugs. 18:40:42 Two, I can set up computers for relatives and set their account to be a regular User account, but still make settings changes by entering the administrator credentials at the prompt. 18:40:48 That is useful, but you didn't have to have this whole interface to do it. 18:41:26 How else are you going to manage elevation? In OS X, it pops up and asks me for a username and password in many of those situations. 18:41:51 Yes, which is fine, since you have to enter the username and password. But it doesn't pop up much at all. 18:42:04 The primary situation where I see a prompt in Windows but not in OS X is for software installation - and in many cases, the software vendor *could* make the program installable as a regular user if they wanted to. 18:44:00 -!- pemleco [n=sveklo@cs27002244.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:49:27 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 18:58:55 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:02:18 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-kwgmycxbhtqqbatt] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 19:03:45 HG` [n=HG@xdslfa007.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 19:09:51 masm [n=masm@bl11-77-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:15:27 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 19:18:56 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-81.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:21:45 jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has joined #scheme 19:33:59 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:34:39 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:36:32 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A3C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:44:47 jao [n=jao@199.Red-79-144-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:28 xwl_` [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 19:48:54 mornfall_ [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 19:49:18 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:49:18 -!- TimMc [n=timmc@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:49:18 -!- jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:49:18 -!- xwl_ [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:49:18 -!- weinholt [i=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:50:53 mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 19:50:53 TimMc [n=timmc@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 19:50:53 xwl_ [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 19:50:57 weinholt [i=weinholt@gula.csbnet.se] has joined #scheme 19:51:05 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Operation timed out] 19:51:20 TimMc_ [n=timmc@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 19:51:38 -!- TimMc [n=timmc@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:52:39 jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 19:53:05 -!- xwl_ [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Operation timed out] 19:57:41 -!- mornfall_ is now known as mornfall 19:59:20 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-36.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:59:30 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslfa007.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:31 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 20:06:17 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:08:22 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 20:10:14 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0577E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:16:01 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has quit [] 20:22:54 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:56 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:28:13 bzzbzz [n=franco@207.236.146.245] has joined #scheme 20:28:41 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:28:47 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@207.236.146.245] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:23 samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 20:31:27 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A3C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 20:34:00 wingo [n=wingo@83.37.98.58] has joined #scheme 20:34:43 perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has joined #scheme 20:35:08 evening 20:36:47 bzzbzz [n=franco@207.236.146.245] has joined #scheme 20:36:55 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@207.236.146.245] has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:48 Hallo wingo. 20:37:50 MononcQc [i=MononcQc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:38:14 greets, chandler. 20:38:39 Hello wingo, I am Dr. SBAITSO. I am here to help you. Tell me about your problems. 20:38:51 oh i miss dr sbaistso 20:39:02 s/st/t/ 20:39:53 sound blaster pro, those were the days. some of them, anyway. 20:41:39 i am privileged to meet another sbaitsoite 20:41:44 I wonder if that would run under DOSBox? I still have the floppies around someplace... 20:41:51 sbaitsketeer 20:42:28 Hey, I remember Dr. Sbaitso! 20:42:34 gnomon, I feel sure it would 20:43:28 ... given that you can run esoteric software like edlib, an adlib tracker 20:43:35 minion: Did you ever meet Dr. Sbaitso? 20:43:35 yes, i ever meet dr sbaitso 20:43:52 minion: Your grammar needs work. Your hygiene does, too. 20:43:52 what's up? 20:44:41 minion was merely making a wry observation about the good doctor 20:46:37 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:46:54 Baconize1 [n=Baconize@17-173-223-66.gci.net] has joined #scheme 20:47:04 *jcowan* unvanishes cautiously. 20:47:53 *Riastradh* sneaks up behind jcowan during his unvanishment. 20:47:55 zbigniew: holy shit; i can't believe your sbaitso neurons are still active 20:52:02 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs137104.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:52:36 Hullo, jcowan! 20:53:38 klutometis: I don't know, man, it's one of those weird things that flashes through my brain once in a while 20:54:18 If only I could do that for useful stuff. 20:54:57 popo1 [n=popo@95-28-92-204.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:55:45 Gee, I just spent a good chunk of today and yesterday struggling with GCC, OS X's malloc, valgrind, and gdb, to find and work around the source of a malloc failure and possibly related GCC miscompilation of some of the code. Now, having rewritten the code in a similar, and as far as I can tell equivalent, way has made both problems vanish... 20:55:46 -!- popo1 [n=popo@95-28-92-204.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #scheme 20:56:08 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:56:24 Riastradh, perhaps you should stop examining the code so closely. Then perhaps the problem may reappear. 20:56:28 I'm not sure whether to be happy or reeeeeally uneasy about the problems' apparent vanishment. 20:56:41 If it does, that's a significant observation to note! Or perhaps not, as that case may be. 20:56:55 gnomon, good idea. Maybe I'll try demoing it on someone else's machine, too, which is where I first observed a similar problem. 20:57:16 `Yep, all this code wor---erm. Worked, anyway.' 20:57:45 -!- Baconizer [n=Baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:57 Other people's machines are so troublesome. 20:58:08 flyfish [n=anonymou@pixout.appriss.com] has joined #scheme 20:58:15 jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has joined #scheme 20:59:07 Hey ho, gnomon. 20:59:08 *gnomon* brandishes a WorksForMe(tm), +3 against bug report trolls 20:59:45 "My enemies must think me very uneasy, which, indeed, makes me very uneasy." --Therem Harth rem ir Estraven 21:00:27 dysinger [n=dysinger@71-20-35-99.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #scheme 21:00:28 hehe 21:01:48 *zbigniew* dons a cloak of anecdotal evidence 21:02:05 *gnomon* quaffs a Potion of Rational Analysis 21:02:36 -!- flyfish [n=anonymou@pixout.appriss.com] has left #scheme 21:10:59 *zbigniew* performs Runge-Kutta on you 21:11:30 OH NOES 21:11:36 NOT RUNGE-KUTTA AGAIN! 21:11:46 *Fare* magnifies numerical errors on zbigniew 21:11:50 We so must restore that example to R7RS 21:12:19 I mean, 50 years of tradition! 21:15:05 It was eliminated from the R6RS?! 21:15:56 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:04 No, runge-kutta's still there, and it's a library now... 21:16:10 No, it wasn't. It's Appendix D. 21:18:19 Oh, okay, I missed it then 21:19:40 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:25:04 -!- karme [n=user@static.179.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has left #scheme 21:33:39 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has quit [] 21:34:31 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 21:35:13 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A3C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:36:52 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:38:11 FunkyDrummer [n=RageOfTh@users-42-53.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:42:46 zbigniew: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZXT1goELA 21:42:59 caution, though; it might rape your childhood, or eat your dog 21:44:49 Hehe. 21:47:15 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:52:40 arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has joined #scheme 21:52:42 hi 21:52:57 is there any way to implement dynamic scope in scheme? 21:53:07 Yes. 21:53:15 chandler: how can I do that? 21:53:24 chandler: I mean, how can I use it. 21:54:22 The typical implementation of this concept is called "fluids"; your implementation may provide this already. 21:54:24 Use dynamic-wind, and be vewy, vewy careful! 21:54:44 I think parameters are more common than fluids now? 21:55:01 Ah, probably true. And they've been blessed with the holiness of a SRFI, have they not? 21:55:06 I would say parameters are the usual way to go, and they're nice. 21:55:13 chandler: Yes. 21:55:21 Trivial though. 21:56:00 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-37.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:57:42 do you know if it is srfi-12? 21:57:51 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0577E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:58:00 I had never heard of "fluids". It sounds like something I... wouldn't want to touch. 21:58:51 Squeamish about preciousssss ... 21:58:53 ? 22:01:03 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-134-5-102.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 22:02:34 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:04:07 jcowan: of the bodily sort? 22:04:41 attila: are you also a CL transfuge? 22:06:13 Well, your wording did suggest that. 22:06:29 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 22:07:12 *masm* kinda is a CL transfuge 22:09:05 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:14:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-81.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:33 masm: are you a turbo assembler transfuge? 22:15:57 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@71-20-35-99.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:16:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-197.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:16:32 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 22:17:58 No. Never used masm. And used asm from inside turbo pascal and turbo c. 22:18:54 -!- MononcQc [i=MononcQc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING NEXT VERSION OF INTERNET"] 22:19:55 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A3C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 22:19:55 But I did write some hundreds of lines of tasm, now that I think of it. 22:20:02 But not thousands. 22:20:05 -!- TimMc_ is now known as TimMc 22:21:21 Fare: well, i'm lurking here ever since we made the decision of building our startup on CL instead of a scheme... that means 3.5 years of lurking... :) 22:21:44 are you satisfied with the choice? 22:22:01 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:23 jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has joined #scheme 22:24:24 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:24:59 I'm using DrScheme for 1 month. I miss the recompile on the fly and Emacs/SLIME. Don't miss anything about the language itself. 22:25:19 That may also be because I still use CL almost daily... :) 22:25:19 well, yes and no. to be honest, i still don't know enough of the scheme impls... but if there was something that you have on your mind, and it would even support CLOS and its MOP... then i would seriously look into moving... :) 22:26:10 s/of/about/ 22:27:45 Fare: although MOP is not crucial, if there's some equivalently powerful... something that would make it possible to port computed-class 22:28:53 Hum... now that I think of it... I'm using PLT web server. My application takes about 10 seconds to start, in DrScheme. Is there anything I can do about it? I am under the impression that developing outside DrScheme is not supported... 22:29:16 haole [n=haole@189.35.188.83] has joined #scheme 22:29:32 -!- haole [n=haole@189.35.188.83] has left #scheme 22:29:34 haole [n=haole@189.35.188.83] has joined #scheme 22:30:06 -!- haole [n=haole@189.35.188.83] has left #scheme 22:30:11 attila_lendvai: There is swindle, but you have to use the old mzscheme language. 22:30:42 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:30:49 Maybe I miss CLOS and MOP a little, after all. 22:32:42 *TimMc* considers billing Comcast for time spent arguing with them over their mistakes 22:33:23 *attila_lendvai* needs to sleep... 22:33:36 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-5-102.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 22:36:17 samth [n=samth@c-67-186-134-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:31 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:02 CLOS...never did use it. 22:43:18 I always found Modules were much better for my development style. 22:43:49 masm: What do you miss about them? 22:44:16 masm: Also, there are many ways of running PLT Scheme in one fashion or another. DrScheme is only one of many. 22:45:43 About CLOS? Generic functions. 22:46:26 The problem is that I must restart the application every time. 22:46:48 It would not be a problem if it took 1 second. 22:47:00 arcfide: What is Modules? 22:47:18 -!- jao [n=jao@199.Red-79-144-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:47:40 But 5 seconds and up it starts to be problematic. Mainly because I am used to CL with Slime. 22:48:01 -!- copumpkin is now known as AdmiralAckbar 22:48:08 -!- AdmiralAckbar is now known as copumpkin 22:50:20 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 22:51:54 Interestingly enough, I still use CL daily to maintain/use a Scheme compiler. :) 22:53:29 Which one? 22:54:33 A Scheme to JavaScript compiler embedded in Common Lisp that I wrote. 22:56:26 Cool. 22:56:38 Is it released? 22:56:41 I'm in the process of deciding if I use a Scheme to JavaScript compiler that some of the PLT Scheme crowd is working on or if I port mine to PLT Scheme. 22:56:42 No. 22:56:51 It is unusable by anyone but me. 22:57:17 And it is dog slow. It compiles to CPS + trampolining. 22:57:38 -!- FunkyDrummer [n=RageOfTh@users-42-53.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:57:53 Well, the generated code is dog slow. The compiler itself is not. 22:57:55 Sure, what else could it do? 22:58:04 Have you tried running it on a fast JS implementation? 22:58:08 (the generated code?) 22:58:17 It is slow. 22:58:43 It is about 50 times slower than the "equivalent" JS code. 22:58:49 Fifty! 22:59:14 Why unusable by anyone but you? Legal restrictions? 22:59:26 Sounds like the kind of toy I'd like to play with. 23:00:40 doesn't FrTime bring you all the benefits of computed-class ? 23:00:41 Well... I have a hacked SBCL implementation that is case sensitive. That is the major obstacle. 23:02:22 Then, you would need to obtain just the right version of some libraries. I don't update my libraries for some 2 years. My hacked SBCL is 1.0.14. I changed so many thing that now I don't have the courage to port my changes to a newer SBCL. 23:03:39 jcowan: Here I'm willing to accept a variety of definitions of modules, but I would feel more comfortable defending syntactic modules that can be used to micro manage visibility of bindings inside other blocks of code. 23:03:40 jcowan: You already have pretty good a Scheme to JS compiler from the guys from Bigloo. 23:03:53 masm: What about generic functions do you need? 23:04:26 Everything about them, including the multiple dispatch. 23:05:51 jcowan: And it generates good code. 23:08:07 -!- samth [n=samth@c-67-186-134-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:30 masm: why make SBCL case sensitive at all? 23:13:01 masm: If I am understanding you, I usually use a type hierarchy with embedded procedures for each subtype to handle a given operation. Then the "generic" function just grabs the given procedure from the record and applies it. 23:13:45 masm: you could "just" have used some reader macro-character to lexically toggle case-conversion or such 23:14:47 Fare: At the time it sounded like a good idea. 23:16:03 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:16:36 arcfide: Multiple dispatch as in multimethods. 23:16:57 masm: I actually did something like this when I implemented the core of my Sockets library, since definition new types of sockets requires that the old functions be able to handle the new types of data and operations on new socket types without knowing in advance what they will be. 23:16:58 Dispatch on the type of more than one argument. 23:17:51 arcfide: Have you ever used CLOS? 23:18:08 masm: Read a little about it, and read about multimethods, but I never found an use for it. 23:18:19 It creates too much overhead for me. 23:18:59 overhead? speed? mental? 23:19:10 chandler: Mental and code overhead. Not speed. 23:19:37 Mostly mental, I would guess, since I can imagine places where CLOS might result in smaller and less code overhead. 23:20:39 I tried to use swindle, but found it not very usable; it needs to be updated to the new scheme language. 23:22:19 Gauche has a pretty good CLOS-alike, though I've not delved into its MOP at all. 23:22:50 But I would use it instead of the default classes and objects system of PLT Scheme. I think it is a mess, overcomplicated. But that can be because I have not read that part of the reference manual. 23:25:03 CL's MOP is very nice, yes. But generic functions would be enough for now. Maybe I'll try to fix Swindle, if I find some time, next year. 23:27:26 The PLT object system seems like it was designed by someone who was a Java expert and had a vague idea of what this whole CLOS thing was all about. I don't understand why it would be preferable to a CLOS-like system, a pure Smalltalk-like system, or a prototype-based object system. 23:28:24 The MOP is an interesting tool. The foundations it provides obviously need to be there, but when I feel tempted to use it, it feels a bit like being tempted to write a `syntax-rules' syntax for the right-hand side of `define-syntax'. Almost always, a left shift is preferable. 23:29:01 In the case of the MOP, that means from a use of the MOP to `defclass/my-extension'; in the case of `syntax-rules', that means something like `define-syntax/my-extension'. 23:29:10 I dunno, the whole notion of generics just kind of weirds me out, chandler. I don't know of any good tutorial about the various tricks and implications of CLOSes. 23:30:20 defining objects not as objects, but as something with an identifier that obeys certain properties... of which I'm not sure what are. CLOS objects are first class, right? 23:30:44 I think you have to pass the generic and the object as separate arguments though... dunno really. 23:30:44 I didn't understand any of your last statement. 23:31:25 http://gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 23:31:27 Every time I start experimenting with CLOS style systems, I always find it's just a bunch of administrative stuff around normal procedure calls with simple data structures. 23:31:58 That's probably the most reductionistic explanation of any object-oriented system. 23:32:21 CLOS is not about objects; it's about methods, and in particular method combination. It's about deciding what methods to apply when to solve the problem at hand. 23:33:05 -!- kenpp [n=kenpp@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:37:04 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:41:13 CLOS in scheme is usually called TinyCLOS I think. 23:41:52 TinyCLOS is one (tree) of implementations. 23:43:36 I don't really get the benefit of generic functions. I just pass stuff to procedures and use contracts if I'm worried about what is being passed. 23:43:51 How do you decide *what* procedure to invoke? 23:43:57 Jebus, the SLIB implementation of FORMAT sure is... uh... imposing. 23:46:14 gnomon: Does SLIB even implement most of FORMAT? 23:46:34 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-yrrritthvfjczdzt] has joined #scheme 23:46:44 gnomon: I have to admit that while FORMAT is a hair beast, it sure is nice to use in many ways. 23:46:59 But that's only if it actually supports most of the useful features like iteration and the like. 23:47:08 arcfide, it implements much more than SRFI-{2,4}8, that's for sure: http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/slib_4.html#SEC57 23:47:24 Not all of Common Lisp's format, but almost all of it. 23:48:05 Honestly, all I really want is the ability to trivially print octets as binary numbers, zero padded out to eight digits. 23:48:29 Huh, it looks like a good start. 23:48:56 Hey, what do you say about a hundred lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? 23:49:03 gnomon: Oh, well, you don't need FORMAT for that. :-) 23:49:06 Wait. Blast. Stupid sequencing bugs. 23:50:05 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@66.29.164.142.static.utahbroadband.com] has quit [] 23:50:25 chandler: I only have one procedure for any given task. :p 23:50:49 (format "~8,'0b" n) in FORMAT, and ... (let ([s (number->string n 2)]) (string-append (make-string (- 8 (string-length s)) #\0) s)) if not. 23:50:54 *gnomon* looks around for foof 23:51:06 Oi, foof! fmt doesn't support binary output. 23:51:12 If there are two different things that have to have the exact same thing done to them, I start looking for an error in my reasoning. 23:51:20 synx: I think you're resisting understanding. I can't provide enlightenment on my own. 23:51:34 arcfide, well, yes, of course it's trivial to pad it oneself. I was just trying to avoid reinventing yet another square wheel. 23:51:57 Well, don't worry about it chandler. If I ever make something that CLOS is suited for, I'm sure I'll use it. 23:53:03 I don't think you understand what it is suited for. 23:53:04 Alright! It's about time that stinkin' bug got fixed. 23:55:21 haesbaert [n=haesbaer@201.54.129.16] has joined #scheme 23:57:58 elias` [n=c@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme