00:04:17 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:18 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 00:10:54 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 00:11:16 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:15:09 emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has joined #scheme 00:16:51 incubot: speaking of jwz and tabs, how apropos 00:16:54 Apropos CAS. Have anyone tried to use tail recusive functions in Mathematica? 00:17:15 incubot: no, but i've successfully used tail reclusive functions 00:17:18 I don't think my friend was even outdoors - he just got bit by a not-so-reclusive brown recluse. 00:17:28 is there any good tutorial or documentation on how to get scheme to 'interface' with the 'outside world' ? 00:17:36 -!- emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has left #scheme 00:17:41 emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has joined #scheme 00:17:44 TEST 00:17:48 crap 00:17:56 No, sorry. I'm no good at tests. 00:17:56 no one say anythin to me, i can't see anything. 00:17:59 -!- emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has left #scheme 00:18:17 *That's* not right. 00:18:22 emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has joined #scheme 00:18:26 emma: I see you! 00:18:27 test 00:18:32 emma: can you hear me though? 00:18:32 weird. i can't see anything. 00:18:34 -!- emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has left #scheme 00:19:11 emma: smash the mirror 00:19:14 emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has joined #scheme 00:19:17 test. 00:19:27 gnomon: I look forward to the day when I can simply ask incubot for conversation number fourteen, and it will proceed to banter with rudybot for a quarter hour about the merits of not providing at least bignums and ratnums in an implementation's numeric tower. 00:19:28 something in the topic message is breaking eris. 00:19:36 nothing is rendering to the screen. 00:19:44 emma: Well, I'm not breaking the topic message to fix your client. 00:19:59 I only see up to: *** Topic for #scheme is: (map surf-to '(" 00:20:02 werid! 00:20:04 -!- emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has left #scheme 00:22:33 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:26:02 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.122] has joined #scheme 00:26:43 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:26:45 unic0rn [i=unic0rn@unaffiliated/unic0rn] has joined #scheme 00:27:48 emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has joined #scheme 00:27:53 test 00:28:00 i think that might have done it! 00:28:03 is anyone else here? 00:28:08 emma: no 00:28:08 ;] 00:28:18 hehe 00:28:34 there's something about what's written in the topic that makes it stop. 00:28:55 there's a bug in url parser. 00:29:25 oh okay cool! 00:30:02 -!- unic0rn [i=unic0rn@unaffiliated/unic0rn] has left #scheme 00:30:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:30:33 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:05 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:37:41 Does anyone here know if there is any tutorial or documentation on how to get scheme to 'interface/interact' with the 'outside world' ? Like with files, device drivers, other programing languages, or what have you? 00:37:59 Which Scheme? This tends to be an implementation-specific area. 00:39:14 I guess PLT or mzscheme, hopefully they are the same thing right? 00:41:06 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:41:32 There's plenty of documentation for that! Have you had a look over http://docs.plt-scheme.org/ ? 00:41:53 If there's some different scheme which is particularly good at actually interacting with the 'outside' world. I would probably like to use that one instead. Because I feel I can learn scheme basics, and write 'project euler' type programs, but I am confused how do you ever make scheme interface/interact with the 'outside world' 00:43:01 <_Pb> you mean a scheme that has dlopen so you can write C bindings on the fly? 00:43:01 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:43:12 PLT Scheme is a really good implementation to use for that. 00:43:36 _Pb: no i have no idea what that even means. 00:44:15 _Pb: Many Scheme implementations, including PLT, provide a foreign function interface. 00:45:03 emma: As far as I'm aware, mzscheme is just the name for the core Scheme implementation provided by PLT, whereas the complete package includes a number of modules and libraries. 00:45:30 I've no idea where the division properly lies, so I just speak of the PLT implementation as a whole. 00:46:17 i see 00:46:25 chandler: what kind of scheme do you like best 00:46:28 ? 00:47:15 Clearly written. Ideally, it should be written as if the language was designed just to solve that problem. 00:47:20 I think you're asking about implementation, though. 00:47:36 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809DD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 00:47:41 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 00:48:19 PLT is a very good implementation. I use it frequently. I also use Gauche frequently as a systems programming swiss army knife. 00:48:38 I see. 00:48:53 By systems programing is that like using scheme the way most people use bash? 00:50:23 <_Pb> systems programming, from what i understand, is very low level, as in talking with hardware directly 00:51:07 It's a vague term. If you search on `UNIX systems programming', you'll find a lot of people using the term as I'm using it. 00:51:29 emma: I'd say using Scheme the way most people use C; that is, for writing little sockets-based programs and such. 00:53:16 imo, chicken excels at systems programming and interfacing with unix; i have even used it for debugging pure C programs/libs 00:53:55 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 00:54:24 Ah, but I'm a - what was the word? - Unicadet. :-) 00:55:19 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:55:39 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:56:05 well, there is the utf8 egg if you need to address utf8 strings in a character-based manner, of course 00:56:23 I'm sure Chicken is good for that sort of thing, too; I just haven't really gotten into it. I think the Python folks would call Gauche a "batteries included" implementation by contrast, as there's a good selection of bindings and a CLOS-like object system in the base language. 00:56:34 zbigniew: Yes, yes... 00:57:13 just sayin' ;) 00:57:14 chandler: I've been toying with the idea of doing shell/file system oriented libraries once my work on sockets is done. 00:58:19 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:22 emma: Grab PLT Scheme and play with the DrScheme program. It's quite approachable. 01:02:09 emma: haven't you been toying with learning scheme for like a year+? what happened to that 01:03:33 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:06:34 Riastradh: ping 01:07:52 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:08:21 Hello again, jcowan. 01:09:05 Hey there. 01:09:37 Hopefully the post I just made to r6rs-discuss will be a useful intuition pump for the characters-as-strings model. 01:10:17 Ah! There it is. 01:11:01 Hm. Would you mind replying to the post I just made? I'd like to hear your comments on that. 01:12:13 jcowan: poing 01:12:24 I mean: SYN/ACK 01:13:33 I reread your TEXT design, and what now strikes me is the insistence on external iterators (well, their functional equivalents) rather than internal iteration. 01:15:10 What you call external iterators compose readily; what you call internal iterators do not. 01:16:09 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:16:18 haesbaert [n=haesbaer@201.54.129.16] has joined #scheme 01:20:25 Fair enough. 01:20:29 -!- syntropy_ [n=who@unaffiliated/syntropy] has left #scheme 01:21:28 ads` [n=user@128.237.229.203] has joined #scheme 01:23:03 -!- ads` [n=user@128.237.229.203] has left #scheme 01:29:43 jcowan: I thought about the strings-as-integers model for a few minutes, and I realized that there *is* a disjoint type predicate for the logically indivisible components of an integer. 01:31:26 Enlighten us. 01:31:34 It's `boolean?'. 01:31:58 Gee, I thought it would be PRIME?. 01:32:35 Sorry, but I can't see that changing the base from 10 to 2 affects the argument. 01:32:37 Heh. In all seriousness, I think the boolean : integer :: code point : string analogy actually holds water. 01:33:20 jcowan: It's not a matter of base; it's a matter of the smallest logically indivisible unit of the whole on which operations on the whole can be logically defined. 01:33:30 -!- blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:34:00 To an algebraist, bist are pretty arbirary; prime numbers are the interesting indivisible components of the structure of integers. 01:34:03 Arbitrary, even. 01:35:49 I don't think representing integers as a sequence of primes is actually a worthwhile model when discussing programming languages. 01:36:02 -!- haesbaert [n=haesbaer@201.54.129.16] has quit ["leaving"] 01:41:40 jcowan: Stated a little more seriously, I don't think that it's possible to bury the code point any more than it's possible to bury the bit. I'm all for encouraging programmers working with strings to do so at a level which is most likely to preserve the meaning of the text, but at some level, somebody's got to deal with the nuts and bolts. 01:42:16 Bits, even 01:43:38 I wrote the reply you ask for. I agree with you and Riastradh that codepoints are fundamental. However, I continue to believe that char as a subtype of string is perfectly fine. 01:43:39 I think asking the author of a decoder or of a glyph renderer to decompose a string containing a single grapheme cluster into a number of other strings each containing just one code point is a bother for bother's sake. I would not disagree that functions like `char-ci=?' should be obsoleted for any number of reasons. 01:44:04 *jcowan* scratches his head. 01:44:05 -!- qebab [i=finnrobi@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:44:29 Are you scratching your head at what I wrote, jcowan? 01:44:34 The author etc. etc. (call him Fred) would do that iff he would today decode a string into characters. 01:44:45 Yes. 01:47:43 That's exactly what it 01:47:45 Argh. 01:47:57 Thwa 01:47:58 Sorry, that was supposed to be deleted (C-k), not sent (C-j). 01:47:59 ...p! 01:48:12 ...oh, so it wasn 01:48:19 't an apostrophical difficulty. 01:48:31 No, just a finger-placement error. 01:49:11 C-u and C-k are too close to C-j. 01:49:43 *jcowan* doesn't have placement problems, but does occasionally have ordering problems which leave the final punctuation mark on the wrong side of Enter. 01:51:00 dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:51:04 chandler: In any case, I simply do not understand your objection "I think asking ... bother's sake" 01:51:22 Yes, that's what I'm trying to re-articulate right now. 01:51:30 *jcowan* nods. 01:52:17 qebab [i=finnrobi@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 01:52:18 I might get some of the nuances of language wrong here, so please bear with me. 01:52:23 Fred is writing a text renderer. At some point, to render a single character, he must take the string representing the character and look at each of the component code points to compose the glyphs necessary to render that character. Is that correct? 01:54:14 The source might be an OpenType font, which maps code points to instructions on how to render the glyph using that font. 01:56:13 -!- uman_boring is now known as uman 01:56:42 Ringo48 [n=Ringo48@97-122-156-185.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:44 At this point, it seems to me that I want a thing which is a code point, which is *not* a string. I started with a string representing a character, but that must be decomposed in order to accomplish the task at hand. 01:57:17 Char-to-glyph mapping is a fallback. High-quality fonts map characters to arbitrary glyph indexes, and then strings of glyph indexes to actual images. 01:57:43 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-vjdyipmewitjmovz] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:57:52 Rendering is precisely the place where codepoints do *not* suffice. 01:57:58 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 01:58:44 jcowan: I'm not sure I follow. The font can't possibly have an image for every possible character, can it? 01:59:07 No. 01:59:18 But it can and does have images that represent *sequences of characters*. 01:59:41 where by characters I mean codepoints. 01:59:57 Right. I definitely understand that, and this is of course true even in the pre-Unicode world. 02:00:39 -!- dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["no reason"] 02:01:07 So yes, the individual codepoints must be inspected, but only at the level of string=. 02:01:20 Just as fixnum= inspects individual bits. 02:01:28 (fx= or whatever it is called) 02:01:59 Yikes. Hold off on that fx= analogy, as the whole fixnum thing causes me to sweat. 02:03:20 I finally received your reply; greylisting is not good for real-time conversations. 02:03:28 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:03:48 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 02:05:08 jcowan: I think the notion is beginning to settle in to my brain. I'll sleep on it and see what happens. 02:06:00 *jcowan* unicodizes the world, one brain at a time. 02:06:18 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:06:19 At some level, I still find the idea of a type representing a sequence-of-things without a disjoint type for the thing to be a bit odd; I'm not sure if that's just a matter of incorrect expectations. 02:06:28 dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 02:06:45 Sure. The purpose of my intuition pumps is to undermine the long-held belief that strings are *naturally* sequences. 02:06:47 And strings are at some level a sequence of code points in my mind, simply because I've had to stare at the implementation level where that's unavoidable. 02:08:10 -!- dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:08:27 jcowan: I'm still not exactly sure that I would want an encoder/decoder to be non-idempotent, as your example of an "intelligent" latin-1 encoder suggests. 02:09:13 At the implementation level, bignums are sequences too, but nobody except implementers cares. 02:10:26 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:36 jcowan, I think you (and I too) have dwelt a little too much on changing the way that people think about text, independently of whether that helps to solve problems in programs. It would be disingenuous to deny that code points occur in many problems that programmers must solve or at least interact with. Comparing text to integers may help to change the way we think about text, but while there are not many interchange formats d 02:10:48 "many interchange formats d" 02:10:54 jonrafkind [n=jon@pool-70-22-235-25.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:55 I didn't even get the d 02:11:03 You must be on a different IRC server. 02:11:18 ...but while there are not many interchange formats defined in terms of the bigits of a bignum, programs interchanging textual data must often interact with code points. 02:11:41 ... "bigits"? 02:12:12 Bignum digits. 02:12:39 Probably best to pronounce with a soft g. 02:13:02 I think the hard-g usage applies to me, when discussing implementations like Chicken. 02:13:15 *jcowan* laughs. 02:14:41 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:17:11 "chandler, chandler, Chicken bigit, had a scheme that made him fidget, He put it in a DLL, and then it served him very well." 02:17:21 No international mathematics standard normatively identifies the structure of an integer; nor does any international computing standard normatively identify the structure of a bignum for interchange between programs. But there is an international Unicode standard that defines terms such as `coded character sequence'. (I was surprised just now to learn, incidentally, that it defines `Unicode string' to be a code unit sequence in 02:17:41 "a code unit sequence in" 02:17:41 "sequence i" 02:17:51 Huh, you consistently get one more char than I do. 02:17:53 ...to be a code unit sequence in a particular encoding form.) 02:17:56 Riastradh needs a new client 02:18:07 No, IRC needs a new protocol. 02:18:08 dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 02:18:11 I think that is the result of C influence. 02:18:16 Riastradh will probably now issue rant number 27. 02:18:19 And it defines these terms usefully, in that there are many useful operations on them. 02:18:22 We can probably ask incubot for that one. 02:18:27 incubot: IRC? 02:19:22 jcowan: basically, there's no way to determine how many characters you can send in an IRC message, since the server-to-server protocol may chop down a certain number of bytes for server names, and you can't tell in advance. 02:20:21 I've installed a script that chops apart long messages at a length that usually works, but the heuristic makes Riastradh itchy. 02:21:00 It's like eighty-character-line mail transfer agents that prefix each line by a new hop on a UUCP bang path. 02:21:25 The issue of character limits is an interesting one to discuss. It does come up, even if only to define a minimum in a standards document. 02:21:36 I don't think that the 80-char (byte!) limit ever applied to headers, only to bodies. 02:22:02 Excuse me: eighty-septet lines. 02:22:12 -!- tmilford [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has left #scheme 02:25:32 (I was speaking of such beasts, which would prefix the bang paths to the lines of the body, as hypothetical absurdities, by the way.) 02:28:30 For what it's worth, in a just and proper world, I think a script such as the one I mentioned should chop apart my message at the grapheme cluster level, but if the server feels the need to limit the length of my messages, that limitation should be done at the code point level. Does this seem sensible? 02:29:16 No. I think it would make more sense for the server to transmit octets. 02:32:55 Do I care what encoding the server<->server protocol is using, and does it have to be the same encoding I am using to interact with the server? 02:34:36 -!- dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0b1/20090718072636]"] 02:34:48 Oh, "each line". I missed that. 02:37:39 So I think that the code point is an important unit to address, but that it should be treated little differently from other units such as default grapheme clusters. 02:38:04 For example, perhaps TEXT-FORWARD should be called TEXT-FORWARD-CP rather than TEXT-FORWARD. 02:38:15 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:38:24 ...and be joined by TEXT-FORWARD-DGC. 02:38:29 BTW, my answer to your TEXT-REF question is to use TEXT-AHEAD and TEXT-BEHIND 02:39:42 How about TEXT-CP-BEFORE and TEXT-CP-AFTER? 02:40:16 Okay, although chandler persuades me that CP should be implicit 02:40:39 TEXT-AHEAD sounds to me like a synonym for TEXT-SUFFIX. 02:41:25 If I did, I didn't mean to. I would rather it be spelled out so that the programmer knows exactly what he or she is doing, and is not looking at code points when grapheme clusters should be warranted. 02:42:10 Okahy. 02:42:10 And, per usual, I'd suggest actually spelling out -code-point- instead of -cp-, but my arguments for very-long-symbol-names-using-full-english-words don't usually convince anyone to do things differently. 02:42:11 (Ordinarily I'd suggest TEXT-CODE-POINT-BEFORE and TEXT-CODE-POINT-AFTER, but I think that if CP and DGC are lexemes consistently used throughout the names of the API, their concision is preferable.) 02:42:39 *jcowan* remembers the symbol EXTREMELYVERYLONGSTRINGOFLETTERSANDSTUFF from the examples in the first Lisp manual he ever read. 02:43:17 That was DTSS Lisp 1.5, and I learned Lisp by reading the manual about a hundred times over, without ever being able to use it. 02:43:38 In any event, I'm off to see the wizard. 02:43:43 Good night. 02:43:45 (One could argue that forcing programmers to write out CODE-POINT would help to deter them from using it unjudiciously, but the same argument would have programmers deterred from using default grapheme clusters!) 02:48:29 Particularly since "default grapheme cluster" is a non-compositional name. 02:48:39 Better to think of them as DGCs and have done. 02:52:45 Gee, what a helpful message. 02:52:53 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:46:43 -0700 02:52:53 From: MAILER-DAEMON 02:52:53 To: undisclosed-recipients:; 02:52:58 (empty body) 02:53:32 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176211059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:58:58 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:01:44 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:02:01 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@howler.blatero.com] has joined #scheme 03:02:03 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@howler.blatero.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:03:39 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@howler.blatero.com] has joined #scheme 03:05:36 Humph. Why can't I do ->= in C? 03:06:56 underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 03:07:54 because minus is never greater than equals 03:08:35 Well, fine, then! How about .= instead? 03:09:21 -!- timj [n=timj@e176219200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:26 try =>=, a guy who just woke up after only two hours sleep 03:09:49 Where's his mouth? Has it been devoured by his tea cup or something? 03:10:03 A likely story. 03:10:40 Hmm. 03:11:28 == 03:11:49  03:12:32 Riastradh: If you want Algol 68, you know where to find it. 03:12:39 My Unicode terminal fonts are screwed up ever since I upgraded to Leopard. :( 03:13:18 maybe snow leopard will fix them again :) 03:13:42 In a parallel universe very close to here, A68 and its successors are the dominant programming language of Unix. 03:14:56 copumpkin: Well, I am using Tiger's terminal because Leopard's is simply broken, so by that measure Snow Leopard's will be like xterm circa 1986. 03:15:55 zbigniew: how is it broken? 03:17:52 copumpkin: primarily, the refresh rate is significantly lower than tiger's, resulting in intermittent lag, so typing on it is like talking to a server 200ms away. also, it has some problems with inter-line spacing 03:18:02 wow 03:19:17 it's like using an old iterm or a terminal.app before accelerated compositing.. stupid lag 03:23:44 .oO("accelerated composting"?) 03:23:54 my garbage turns into mulch in a mere four hours! 03:23:56 A GOod Thing, accelerated composting. 03:24:41 Does anyone remember that fella who announced a new Lisp with first-class macros? I reviewed his R-1RS. 03:25:04 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:25:06 It was a few years ago, and had some unheard-of name. 03:26:42 offby1: oh, you 03:29:30 karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:30:37 *offby1* blushes 03:32:32 Skribilo looks neat. 03:34:27 -!- zeroish` [n=zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:58 patmaddox [n=patmaddo@190.sub-70-194-83.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:06 It would work well to have procedure-based typesetting commands in an Org-mode like markup language. 03:36:37 Where the user may define custom commands in either Scheme or JS syntax. 03:37:35 Like Lout, sort of. 03:37:53 jcowan: yes, and I am having a bitch of a time remembering the name 03:39:14 I can't find the review 03:39:20 wait 03:39:21 it may have been in 2005, when my records are sadly incomplete 03:39:27 *karlw* opens another LaTeX file and proceeds to bang his head against the wall. 03:39:40 jcowan: prob. http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html 03:41:16 Thanks so much 03:42:54 what has the world come to, i am now terribly annoyed when it takes 10 minutes to search for something 03:43:57 that's human nature! 03:44:10 "The only acceptable response time is the fastest response time ever received." 03:44:11 I'm annoyed when I turn on the light and the bulb is burnt out 03:44:22 or when there aren't any leftovers in the fridge, etc. 03:44:29 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@howler.blatero.com] has quit [] 03:44:34 why, why does he do me that way 03:44:46 That's how I do. 03:44:57 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:44:59 He do the Police in different voices. 03:46:04 How hard is it to extend Scribble? 03:48:23 karlw: I would hope it's easy. No actual experience, though. 03:49:25 skribilo sounds esperantish 03:50:51 or in lojban, it's skrbobli 03:51:20 karlw: What extension do you need? 03:52:18 synx: 23 skidoo 03:53:22 voom boom broom 23 skidoom 03:53:28 emma: Did you see the top 4 entries in docs.plt-scheme.org? 03:53:57 let me make sure -- http://docs.plt-scheme.org 03:54:05 emma: Yes. 03:54:12 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 03:54:26 eli: the 'quick' 'continue' 'more' and 'guide' ? 03:54:38 The top 4 entries are "guides", and the "More" guide is intended as a tutorial for how you do "real world" stuff with PLT. 03:54:49 I see! 03:54:50 (Yes, these four.) 03:55:01 ha, skribilo is esperanto after all 03:55:01 well that seems very good! 03:55:03 "Continue" is a tutorial for using the web server 03:55:21 And "Guide" is a more extensive guide for most things in the language. 03:59:22 -!- MononcQc [i=MononcQc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING NEXT VERSION OF INTERNET"] 04:01:10 It was from that dear old manual that I was initiated into the mysteries of funargs and "a-list dummies" 04:01:54 now, hold on a second. 04:02:03 mornin' 04:02:06 Just because I and my friends are famous doesn't mean we're dummies. 04:02:24 Granted, Angelina isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer 04:09:55 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:09:57 I made a network model, with nodes exchanging pieces. Trying to speed up searching by getting the "closest" pieces and nodes together. 04:10:51 I made some nodes drop pieces, to see how the others could handle it. Predictably if 1/3 of the nodes are bad, 1/3 of the pieces become unavailable. 04:11:58 offby1: you are friends with angelina jolie? 04:12:08 Then I had nodes remember who had sent them pieces before. Presumably the good nodes would be remembered, and considered a closer distance for the purposes of who to send a piece to. 04:12:21 emma: oh the very best of friends. 04:12:30 cool. 04:12:34 I overlook her dumbness and she overlooks the fact that I only imagine we're friends. 04:12:36 End result is if 1/3 of the nodes are bad, 1/3 of the pieces still become unavailable. The network doesn't ignore the bad nodes at all ever. 04:12:36 maybe she will adopt you. 04:12:39 She's gracious that way. 04:12:40 T_T 04:13:07 I don't really know what angelina jolies 'thing' is but I think she's intelligent in a fashion. 04:13:10 offby1: now don't exaggerate, I know you mean anjulie 04:13:18 She does a lot for the UN and such. 04:13:24 And she is articulate. 04:13:27 you're strictly a b- and c-list kind of guy 04:13:34 (ok, maybe she's not dumb; I know very little about her) 04:13:50 ((I do know my wife is in love with her, but this is a family channel, so I will say no more)) 04:13:54 I thikn someone like britney spears is actually not very bright. 04:14:05 offby1: please, go on 04:14:07 emma: no!! 04:14:20 LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE 04:14:23 zbigniew: wants to look like her, be her, be married to Brad Pitt, you know. The usual. 04:14:45 oh yeah, me too 04:14:49 Im impressed you have a wife 04:14:55 hahaha 04:15:28 incbot: ahaha 04:15:31 incubot: ahaha 04:15:34 And lisp is too much for me to learn right now. ahaha 04:15:45 -!- guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:15:48 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #scheme 04:15:49 It's no offense. It's actually a compliment of sorts, if you know how much I admire true computer geeks. 04:16:54 offby1, you're not as unhygienic, unsociable and unlikeable as i thought 04:17:22 ... although you are still really old. 04:17:35 *jcowan* is old too, don't forget 04:17:45 what's that sonny 04:17:53 *offby1* barely refrains from slapping emma upside the haid 04:18:41 I'm impressed with people who don't have a wife. Any average guy can have a wife it's easy. 04:18:43 master of the backhanded compliment 04:18:52 synx: just keep telling yourself that 04:19:00 offby1: you're pretty fly for a white guy 04:19:10 seriously zbigniew most guys are married. 04:19:34 though more women are married than guys. 04:19:39 I guess. 04:19:40 I dunno. 04:19:43 ... 04:19:51 I'm just gonna . . . leave now. 04:19:53 polygamy? 04:19:57 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 04:20:12 polygyny is when it's just multiple women 04:21:21 gosh but polyandry is terribly rare. just another aspect of our society that doesn't make a damn bit of sense. 04:21:57 well synx, i'm gonna guess the number of married women is approximately equal to the number of married men. just a thought 04:22:10 polytics is when you get married to many blood sucking insects? 04:22:39 offby1: I just mean you are a really cool guy. You know lisp and scheme and emacs really well. You have your own IRC bot and also a wife. Some people would say you have an embarasment of riches. 04:22:45 synx: makes a lot of sense if you understand evolutionary pressures 04:22:52 You'd think so zbigniew, but if you look at any personals site or singles club anywhere, you could see a very distinct gender bias. 04:23:18 Fare: the birth ratio of male to female in humans has been 50:50 for quite some time now. 04:23:39 actually It's a little bit skewed toward females, I think. 04:23:56 there's some evolutionary explanation that I cant remember. 04:24:15 synx: do you understand the defining difference between male and female? 04:24:16 offby1 was officially declared cool at 21:21:57 CDT 04:24:44 I think it might be females more likely to survive to maturity...but I don't remember the details. 04:24:48 a female is by definition whichever sex has higher sunk investment in offsprings. 04:25:00 Fare: well sure. eyelashes! 04:25:11 no it's definitely the eyelashes. 04:25:16 that's not the definition of female :) 04:25:20 this is the part where i follow arcfide off stage right 04:25:26 emma: ask a biologist 04:25:39 that would be the most ridiculous definition of female ever. 04:25:57 You think it has nothing to do with which animal produces eggs or something like that? 04:26:01 emma: in any species, that's how you determine the female 04:26:06 that's not true. 04:26:08 Excuse me, Dr. Biologist? Are female frogs not female? Okay. Okay thanks. I'll remember that. 04:26:26 What was that about male seahorses? 04:26:26 emma: well, eggs is the primary way that females invest more 04:26:54 synx: according to fare 'male' seahorses are by definition female.... 04:26:56 garden slugs? well you just blew my mind right there, Dr. Biologist. 04:27:01 *zbigniew* smells the distinct burnt-spinach odor of pot wafting by, man 04:27:23 zbigniew: dude 04:27:30 i wish burnt spinach smelled that good 04:27:33 synx: applies to eggs first -- but yes, in a way, male seahorses have female characteristics 04:28:08 I literally consider this channel to have the highest raw intelligence density of any channel I lurk or chat in. 04:28:20 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:28:32 the typical inteligence in here (intelligence of a certain raw analytical kind ) is frightening. 04:29:05 emma: can you cook the intelligence? 04:29:14 I don't eat raw 04:29:19 :) 04:29:43 birds have W/Z sex chromosomes. The females have WZ and the males have ZZ. 04:30:08 *zbigniew* has ZZZZZZ soon 04:30:13 this will be the last offtopic thing I say in here for tonight --- do any of you ever smoke pot? 04:30:15 I used to major in Biology, but then I learned I can't memorize names worth beans. 04:30:32 I normally inject it. 04:30:40 I just kind of wonder if any of the uber scheme type people ever smoke pot. 04:30:50 emma: all of those riches are trumped, however, by my cat, whose coolness cannot be expressed in numbers 04:30:57 I never smoked pot. Nothing wrong with it though. 04:30:59 offby1: hehe 04:31:06 emma: ask Sussman. Could be why he's on about the tuna 04:31:21 offby1: 3 04:31:26 sussman should come in here. 04:31:31 pot is like gerbils. 04:31:41 I bet sussman has come in here at least once. 04:31:48 friendly, exotic, fun, loving, and horribly illegal in most places 04:32:10 *zbigniew* was awaiting a richard gere joke and is disappointed 04:32:34 (1) Sussman invented scheme. (2) Susman surely knows IRC exists (right?) (3) This channel is the defacto official scheme channel on the internet. 04:32:41 How could Susman not have come in here. 04:32:51 On all the internets, even. 04:32:52 I can't believe people abide by Social Security Numbers, but then go toke up on pot against the law. It's like... wtf 04:33:03 if you're gonna pick a law to break... why that one... 04:33:05 emma, zbigniew: are you talking about http://blog.red-bean.com/sussman/?cat=7 04:33:13 offby1: yeah dude 04:33:14 Riastradh might be Sussman 04:33:21 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:33:39 or he could be an XML tag in disguise 04:33:43 naw, Riastradh is http://wizzyswandrings.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/sanders.jpg 04:34:28 emma: pot is bad for your brain connections 04:34:30 at least, I've always believed that 04:34:35 offby1: http://www.district19.ca/images/sanders_h.jpg 04:34:42 it also fosters paranoia 04:34:42 Fare: Carl Segan didn't think so 04:34:54 zbigniew: aw, that's not the same, guy, I don't think. 04:35:05 emma: he wasn't all that clear in his mind anymore 04:35:11 Fare: only when you are using it, and that's inbetween good feelings. 04:35:16 I used to like him a lot when I was a kid -- I outgrew that 04:35:42 Who? 04:35:53 Carl Segan 04:36:00 Sagan, perhaps? 04:36:00 he was an avid pot smoker 04:36:05 *gasp* 04:36:06 my hero 04:36:07 Yeah 04:36:11 with feet of clay 04:36:33 Pot is harmless to brain connections. In some people, rarely, specifically those prone to paranoid schizophrenia, it makes them feel uncomfortable and paranoid, so they stop. 04:36:34 colonel sanders? 04:36:44 and the placebo bias is heavy in that too 04:37:44 Once you get the hang of it, it gives you hours of good feelings and relaxation, and Im not saying it's healthy but I do believe it is less bad for you than drinking alcohol. 04:37:46 *eli* looks around for that intelligence that was supposed to be high here. 04:38:50 I met someone who had an adverse reaction to pot once. Crazy mofo, always on the edge. Loved conservative talk radio to death. 04:39:40 Must put grandson to sleep. 04:39:41 *offby1* had that adverse reaction too, but is no fan of talk radio 04:39:44 of either flavor 04:39:45 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:39:51 I always assumed Riastradh looked like http://i32.tinypic.com/6hp5s4.jpg 04:40:03 also Steve Martin freaked out from pot in his young days, and as far as I know never used any sort of recreational drug since 04:40:07 I listen to antiwar radio sometimes, but that's it. 04:40:21 zbigniew: that too. 04:40:29 And you wrote rudybot offby1 so that's just about crazy enough! 04:40:32 offby1: or possibly http://i19.tinypic.com/8gewxw0.jpg ... 04:41:09 *offby1* preferred Sir Ian's photo 04:41:22 nice thing about adverse reactions to pot is they make people stop wanting to do it, end of story. Compare that with someone crashing off of meth, and it makes them want to do it more. 04:41:29 emma: Are you high? :) 04:42:20 foof hehe, nope. :) I just have been a few times. I think it's kind of interesting. I was hoping lots of people here would say they do it all the time so I would be even more sure it is okay to do it. :) 04:42:58 I am getting a contact high just from being in here 04:43:13 eli: how was the end of mitchfest? 04:43:14 It's like the summer of love all over again. 04:43:20 I missed that :( 04:43:43 Google Summer of Love 04:44:03 *offby1* <-- bed 04:44:15 emma: I might be going on Prozac soon, if that's any consolation? 04:44:29 synx: consider us consoled. 04:44:42 What is the drive behind wanting two new scheme standards? 04:44:46 meh 04:45:00 I still want to know why my node selection strategy isn't working. 04:45:47 Fare: It was interesting, though we spent considerable time today doing PLT meetings. 04:46:05 Fare: Overall, it was an exhasting weekend+1. 04:46:15 (exhausting in a good way.) 04:46:23 offby1: Steve Martin also used laughing gas in Little Shop of Horrors. 04:46:39 eli: you are a PLT official? 04:47:02 emma: he carries his party card everywhere 04:47:13 emma: he's entitled to arrest stray processes 04:47:14 One thing is certain: none of the big guys, sussman, friedman, wand, felleisen, shivers, clinger, or anyone else were smoking any pot. 04:47:20 what does PLT stand for? 04:47:31 pork, lettuce and tomato 04:47:45 emma: Yes, I'm part of the PLT team. 04:47:50 no, i kid 04:47:57 I can arrest people if they break plt laws. 04:48:02 minion: what does PLT stand for? 04:48:02 Perishable Liveness Toponymist 04:48:04 eli: i can't see why that would be for certain. 04:48:28 PLT doesn't stand for anything significant -- it came up on the list a few times. 04:48:47 emma: What certainty are you talking about? 04:48:59 it came up on the list to decide what PLT stands for? 04:49:19 eli: your certainty that none of the big guys in computer science smoke pot 04:49:24 emma: No, there have been a few times when people brought up the question. 04:50:18 emma: My certainty was in reference to *this* evening, and I *know* they didn't because they were all in the same room, and I would definitely notice any smoke that would be present. 04:50:24 eli: Was it answered? 04:50:35 oh haha 04:50:44 wow that's super cool you were there and met them! 04:50:49 The answer was that the name is coincidental, and that it doesn't mean anything significant. 04:50:58 no i don't expect they did at a meeting. I thought you meant 'ever'. 04:51:24 Today was the last day of "Mitchfest" -- which was a celebration in honor of Mitch Wand, so "everyone" was there. 04:51:37 ("There" = "Northeastern") 04:51:38 eli: why not name it something awesome then, like name it after something poisonous. 04:51:55 I think she -is- high. 04:51:59 Like 'Viper" 04:52:06 emma: You mean invent a meaning for "PLT", or a completely new name? 04:52:36 Well, I think it's pretty clear rms smoked, and then Guido is Dutch, that goes without saying. So smoking pot gives you the likes of Emacs and Python. 04:52:45 Look, I have some experience with marketing. I want lots of people to discover the goodness of scheme. I'm just saying, a name can mean more than you think. If no one has their heart on PLT, and it means nothing, name it after an awesome snake! 04:53:25 *synx* starts working on Viper Scheme 04:53:29 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:53:44 emma: Yes, I can see the logic in that -- but there's a bunch of technical issues -- like the domain name, the mailing list name, etc etc. 04:53:47 emma: So it's implemented in python, right? :| 04:53:51 By extension we can assume Larry Wall was on crystal meth, and the Java authors were clearly smoking crack. 04:54:01 emma: You're also talking about voiding a number of shirts and cups that I have! 04:54:15 yeah there are some issues there. 04:54:31 foof: that explains why Wall is unable to complete Perl 6, too. Burned out. 04:54:37 :) 04:54:38 Your PLT consortium could talk about it, secure the domain names, and then make it public. 04:54:59 ... and the PHP authors were without a doubt sniffing glue. 04:55:08 emma: The chances of having "viper.org" available are less than zero. 04:55:35 incubot: Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. 04:55:38 almost. The only main obstacle is the mutable pairs thing. The plan is to have an R6RS "variant" language that has immutable pairs by default, and that means that you do need a certain "glue" code to translate mutable pairs back and forth. 04:56:17 And BTW, a poisonous snake is going to be taken as some kind of Python-envy. 04:56:51 Hmmpf. Anyway, I prefer Schemes named after foods, like Chicken, PLT, and Scheme48. 04:57:31 zbigniew: That would make PLT non-kosher. 04:57:35 eli: plus, the whole viper-mode thing in Emacs. That could get confusing. 04:57:45 Yeah. 04:57:50 eli: Poultry, lettuce and tomato, then. 04:57:52 We should make Bowrll the mascot of Viper Scheme 04:57:53 And the alarm thing too. 04:58:01 i dont have my heart set on viper. it was just brain storming. 04:58:10 often something poisonous will seem like a cool name though. 04:58:18 Like "Arsenic" 04:58:47 For some reason these names remind me of DB interfaces. 04:59:37 emma: Mercurial 04:59:38 PLT means Perl-Like Transcripts 04:59:58 zbigniew: that's a good one 05:00:25 *eli* slaps Fare 05:00:36 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:02:11 Cheeba Scheme 05:02:41 chibi scheme's cool older brother 05:03:32 oh right, that was PHP Lite Typer 05:03:55 Would Cheetah Scheme infringe on Apple trademarks? 05:04:52 http://d.furaffinity.net/art/bowrll/1242885312.bowrll_cutebowrllie.png 05:05:14 System 7 Scheme 05:06:27 cutest Saharan horned viper ever 05:07:17 There is a Cheetah templating system for Python. 05:07:35 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit ["off"] 05:09:20 cunning scheme 05:09:33 clever scheme 05:09:51 plotand scheme 05:09:58 ooh..DREAM SCHEME 05:10:19 unstoppable scheme 05:10:30 emma: http://www.stripedgazelle.org/joey/dream.html 05:10:33 Mike Tyson's Scheme 05:10:41 Scheme-out 05:10:55 (no wait, that's CL) 05:11:09 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@c-76-119-235-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:11:11 call-with-soda-popinski 05:11:52 zbigniew: ahhh already taken :) 05:12:10 Transfer Scheme 05:12:24 Evil Scheme 05:12:27 scheme attic 05:12:54 where Cubans put their grandparents 05:12:58 get it? 05:13:01 (only Cubans will get their joke) 05:13:03 scheme names are like women, the ones you like are already taken, or cost $20/year (bulk discounts available) 05:13:08 schematic... 05:13:14 emma: I got it :P 05:13:23 or scheme adic 05:13:35 emma: that's very attic of you 05:13:43 zbigniew: You buy women for $20/year? 05:13:46 she's Greek? 05:13:54 *moan*... attic 05:13:54 who knew 05:13:58 that was very dram - attic of you! 05:14:12 foof: I can't afford $20/year. 05:15:04 back to work 05:15:10 (me) 05:15:34 Off to bed. The fumes sting my eyes. 05:15:35 meme scheme 05:16:09 gooodnight! 05:16:43 cream scheme 05:17:01 cream is kind of a cool name for a language. 05:17:10 implies that it is smooth and rich 05:18:41 and gives you bad cholesterol 05:19:14 tastes like it's got butter inside 05:21:40 gottasleep,tomorrow i will try to learn something! 05:21:49 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 05:22:08 synx: chicken kiev scheme 05:23:13 It's all about Vindaloo Scheme 05:25:06 dmoerner [n=dmr@134.173.87.189] has joined #scheme 05:25:12 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 05:26:08 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:28:57 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 05:33:14 -!- Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:10 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:39:05 What are good questions to ask an interviewer? 05:39:23 I remember seeing a list somewhere and can't find it. 05:39:55 -!- emma [n=d09db278@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-ojlfybnnginzfrjt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:45:07 Screme was an implementation for a Motorolla chip years back, but it would still make a good name for Scheme 7/Big 05:45:21 Especially depending upon the nature of their "Big" ambition 05:46:48 Personally, I'd love to see something like PLT's optional typed scheme included in Scheme 7. 05:46:56 which language level are you using, R7RS Student or R7 Pretty Big? 05:47:16 Using / R7 ? 05:47:44 But I'm referring to the future "Big" Scheme 7 05:48:33 from __adolescence__ import braces, pimples 05:49:02 ? 05:49:08 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.122] has left #scheme 05:49:13 I'm 43 and feeling old 05:49:21 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.122] has joined #scheme 05:51:55 My dream feaures would be : 1) implement all SRFI's where no conflict with R6 libs; 2) standard TCP lib; Standard FFI; central library of R7 libraries that pass a basic compatibity test against a reference R7 implementation. 05:53:10 1) it works 2) it works well 05:54:31 i want progv and boole in r7 05:54:43 incubot: progv? 05:54:47 More serriously, progv binds dynamic variables. 05:54:59 don't for CL's prog1 06:04:36 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:04:45 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 06:13:40 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:21:10 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #scheme 06:21:17 hi 06:21:41 which is the most used and well documented scheme implementation out there ? 06:22:52 PLT is the most documented. Well documented? Matter of opinion. No idea what's the most used. 06:24:22 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@80.65.72.29] has joined #scheme 06:31:31 danfowler1 [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-205.autorev.intellispace.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:24 -!- xwl_ [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:35:31 -!- ponzao___ [n=vesam@xdsl-83-150-86-25.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:36:19 oldest registered .com: ; comes with a "MACSYMA UPGRADE SPECIAL OFFER" 06:36:24 oldest registered .com: ; comes with a "MACSYMA UPGRADE SPECIAL OFFER" 06:36:31 whoops 06:39:36 HG` [n=HG@xdsleh221.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 06:39:59 http://symbolics.com/Genera-1.htm <-- lol 06:40:07 thanks synx 06:40:16 does plt scheme have also a repl ? 06:40:26 don't remember to saw one of these 06:40:37 yes it does alinp 06:41:11 dcooper8 [n=dcooper8@c-71-205-172-135.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:41:50 can't find it on ubuntu package 06:41:54 that's why I asked :) 06:42:42 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:46:09 I'm not even sure I know a Scheme without an REPL. Stalin maybe. 06:47:08 Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #scheme 06:47:44 -!- danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-226.autorev.intellispace.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:12 mzscheme is related to plt-scheme ? 06:50:29 mzscheme - PLT Scheme Interpreter - transitional package 06:50:34 to me, it seems so 06:51:28 it may seem that you are right 06:54:55 -!- underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:55:15 ok, thanks 06:56:57 ASau [n=user@host71-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:58:39 xwl_ [n=user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:00:52 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-rnljulnwgjxnaubx] has joined #scheme 07:08:26 danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-203.autorev.intellispace.net] has joined #scheme 07:11:45 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:12:35 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 07:17:37 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:18:00 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-225.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:18:04 danfowler2 [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-205.autorev.intellispace.net] has joined #scheme 07:18:15 -!- danfowler1 [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-205.autorev.intellispace.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:19:01 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 07:31:54 ponzao___ [n=vesam@xdsl-83-150-86-25.nebulazone.fi] has joined #scheme 07:32:20 -!- patmaddox [n=patmaddo@190.sub-70-194-83.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:59 Is there a bot aware of last version of (most) schemes out there? 07:37:25 ,version chicken 07:38:00 would answer 3.4.0 (though I doubt the port is up-to date on my freebsd) 07:38:30 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:38:52 -!- danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-203.autorev.intellispace.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:54 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 07:48:01 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-55-207-173.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:51:14 Axioplase: http://synthcode.com/scheme/detect-scheme.scm 07:51:24 (somewhat dated) 07:56:30 Oh, wait, I think I misunderstood. 07:58:02 Axioplase: use pkgsrc to be more up-to-date :) 07:58:40 Axioplase: it's one of the most important points, why I don't use ports on FreeBSD anymore. 07:59:08 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:17 ASau: Last time I checked, pkgsrc was *very* bad at handling dependencies. 08:00:21 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 08:00:43 (begin (go-to 16:41) (regexp-replace "last" "latest" (current-sentence))) 08:01:49 In my experience ports always had worse dependency handling. 08:02:56 I disagree on that, but it's not the matter here anyway 08:02:57 You could end (unintentionally!) deinstalling package that was pulled as a dependency. 08:03:13 That never happened to me 08:03:49 That happened to me last year, when I had to update FreeBSD 6.2 installation. 08:05:43 Another reason to use pkgsrc is that one of Chicken developers use it :) 08:06:19 (And one of pkgsrc developers uses Chicken.) 08:06:29 (Another one uses Guile.) 08:07:21 Well, I use the FreeBSD ports since I maintain the ports'Gambit-C ^^ 08:07:52 Weird reasoning. 08:08:14 I just mailed the fbsd maintainer of chicken for an update (though the port seems fairly straightforward, I don't have time to take over all scheme ports) 08:08:22 Yes, I know that "since" made no sense. 08:08:27 I'd say that I maintain pkgsrc Chicken package because I use Chicken and pkgsrc. 08:09:01 SCM is the worst one. 08:09:22 It has crippled build system. 08:09:28 (on the other hand, it'd be weird too to maintain the port and not to use it) 08:09:43 Was it scm that had *hardcoded* lib paths in it? 08:09:44 It isn't. 08:10:45 I am afraid that only a small minority of people developing software think in terms of portability. 08:10:47 It generates makefiles on the web, even thought they are pretty straightforward. 08:11:16 This isn't the question of portability. 08:11:24 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:11:28 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #scheme 08:11:33 It is hard to maintain. 08:12:00 When new release happens, you can't change version in your script (makefile), 08:12:13 Most free software is made to run on "ubuntu", contains unportable code, makefiles, installing procedures, etc. Sometimes, it may install too on some other linux without too much hassle. But when it comes to porting to a BSD or something else it's a real pain in the neck 08:12:16 and go with fetch-build-test-install. 08:12:50 If the software is written by their own rules, as dictated by gnu, 08:13:04 it is easy to pass all necessary variables. 08:13:38 Problems arise only at low level, and you usually know what's wrong. 08:14:54 Don't you want to yell at people programming software with Alsa? 08:14:56 I do 08:15:16 They don't usually. :) 08:15:38 And I'd say it is almost always a waste of time. 08:15:49 You have enough audio i/o libraries. 08:31:57 -!- a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:32:47 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:08 a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has joined #scheme 08:34:29 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:34:39 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-225.naist.jp] has quit [] 08:35:07 -!- ASau 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underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:17 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 13:38:43 minion: memo for alinp: The Ubuntu repositories do *not* have recent packages for PLT. You'll have to download from the PLT site instead. 13:38:43 Remembered. I'll tell alinp when he/she/it next speaks. 13:39:56 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-179.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:43:54 RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.216.207] has joined #scheme 13:46:58 sjamaan: (a) your reply has very little to do with *my* post. 13:47:38 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@80.65.72.29] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:47:48 sjamaan: (b) both things you've mention are *directly* following the r5rs spirit: only `syntax-rules' in the "core" (whatever that is), and low level macros in a library. 13:48:24 I think he's arguing for a change, where only `define-macro' style macros are present in the core. 13:48:45 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-179.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 13:48:48 Not define-macro style 13:49:50 Anyway, I think that syntax-rules do _not_ follow the spirit of r5rs, because they make additional features necessary; with syntax-rules only you cannot break hygiene 13:50:08 But if you have low-level macros you can build syntax-rules or syntax-case on top of it 13:50:15 It's a bit odd to say that part of the R5RS does not follow the spirit of the R5RS, isn't it? 13:50:50 I assumed by 'spirit' he was referring to the famous opening remarks 13:50:51 sjamaan: Let me rephrase s/spirit// 13:50:59 ah, ok 13:51:01 It is *explicit*. 13:51:26 What is explicit? 13:52:02 sjamaan: I'm still not understanding what you mean by "low-level macros". 13:52:24 Macros that are implemented as regular Scheme code 13:52:30 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.122] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:52:37 (as opposed to some pattern matching language that is not scheme) 13:52:48 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:53:05 sjamaan: Such as transformer lambdas, yes? 13:53:08 sjamaan: High-level macros being part of the document and low-level macros being left as an exercise for the reader. 13:53:09 aye 13:53:33 Pattern matching is not the interesting part of the `syntax-case' system; what part of that system do you think *isn't* low-level, and what would you propose as an alternative for standardization? 13:53:56 The pattern matching isn't low-level 13:55:17 chandler: The usual terminology has little to do with the common definitions of "high-" and "low-level": the high level is the hygienic side, and the low-level is the system that allows you to break it. 13:55:55 eli: That's the usage I was keeping with, which is why I was a bit confused at sjamaan's statement that the `syntax-case' macro system is not a low-level system. 13:56:31 And because I'm confused about that, I don't know what sjamaan *does* want. 13:57:24 chandler: You're right, I should have started started that with "sjamaan:"... 13:57:34 s/started started/started/ 13:57:52 Perhaps you should get started started on another cup of coffee. :-) 13:57:56 And now I multiplied the number of "started" by four^H^H^H^Hfive to fix the error. 13:58:32 I does not dreenk kofi. 13:58:57 That's good; I'm not sure Kofi would appreciate being dreenked (whatever that means). 13:59:22 Sorry about the confusion re: low-level/high-level 13:59:25 I always wondered whether he suffered these jokes in school too. 14:00:15 re kofi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxTUf5V4Wjw 14:00:23 incubot: My milk has yet again been transformed to yoghurt. :-( 14:00:26 What is yoghurt jus? 14:01:14 incubot: Yoghurt is what happens when refrigerators aren't cold enough. 14:01:17 you mean, like yoghurt jus? 14:01:41 *TimMc* has no idea 14:02:04 eli: Hee hee. 14:03:15 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 14:14:54 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:15:20 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 14:16:29 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 14:16:40 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:29:57 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 14:31:37 dg_ [n=dg@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:31:54 -!- dg_ [n=dg@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:33 poe [n=poe@unaffiliated/poe] has joined #scheme 14:35:06 *gnomon* peeks in 14:35:09 *gnomon* looks aruond 14:35:26 *gnomon* sees that it is a bad day for spelling and disappears. Six more weeks of winter! 14:35:47 I type just as poorly in the summer as I do in the winter. 14:36:12 swinter flu, xD 14:36:41 don't go to Hospital due to swine flu from people, xD 14:39:10 .oO( Who is xD? ) 14:44:37 sepulte [n=user@xdsl-87-78-129-99.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:45:57 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-31-54.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:46:10 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:13 -!- sepulte is now known as sepult 14:46:17 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:46:30 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 14:47:12 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:47:47 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:48:09 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:55 incubot: Where is fancy bread? Or in the hearth, or in the Herd? 14:49:58 that's actually hanging above my hearth 14:50:03 ok 14:51:39 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 14:52:15 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:52:22 -!- ASau [n=user@host71-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 14:54:52 -!- karme [n=user@static.179.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has left #scheme 14:58:57 zachb [n=zachb@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:59:21 Good morning everyone. 15:00:10 I am new to scheme, and am looking for someone that knows about scheme. 15:00:29 Anyone here know what they are talking about when it comes to scheme? 15:00:50 Yes. Plenty of people here do. 15:00:54 Just ask your question. 15:01:07 I need to do the following: 15:01:28 Get the text data from a text-field and write it to a textfile 15:01:38 open another .exe file using scheme. 15:01:48 Which implementation are you using? 15:01:55 Dr. Scheme 15:03:07 OK. The first part of that sounds trivial; where are you stuck? 15:03:34 I've no idea what interface should be used for the second part, but it seems to me that whatever it is, it'll be documented at http://docs.plt-scheme.org/ . 15:03:38 well, I am new to scheme and still learning. I am pretty much stuck at the beginning. :) 15:05:21 Do you know how to create a text field? 15:05:45 jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:06:26 Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 15:07:11 -!- jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:29 Yes, I do know how to do that. 15:07:31 jay-mccarthy [n=jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:08:08 -!- karlw` [n=user@99.157.202.134] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:14 OK. Do you know how to get the text from a text field? 15:10:08 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:10:14 No, that I do not. 15:10:49 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/text-field_.html 15:11:23 (send a-text-field get-value) ? string? 15:11:23 Returns the text currently in the text field. 15:11:41 patmaddox [n=patmaddo@187.sub-70-194-120.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 15:12:01 That is cool! 15:12:11 OK, now how do I write that to a textfile? 15:12:19 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:13:53 You'll need to open a port for the file. 15:14:17 See http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/file-ports.html 15:16:32 Sorry I I sound like an idiot, but the docs are just confusing me. 15:16:52 Could you provide me with some smaple code? 15:17:40 (with-output-to-file name (lambda () (display (send a-text-field get-value)))) 15:17:42 There's some embedded sample code in the documentation at this anchor: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/file-ports.html#(def._((lib._scheme/base..ss)._call-with-output-file)) 15:17:56 Mmmm... smaple... 15:18:17 OOPs , sorry. 15:18:19 Smaple's OK, but I prefer sbutter specan. 15:18:26 Mmmm. 15:18:40 Let's see if I can get this right on the first try for once: 15:18:44 rudybot: init http://paste.lisp.org/display/86014/raw 15:18:46 chandler: your "http://paste.lisp.org/display/86014/raw" sandbox is ready 15:18:54 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-55-207-173.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:18:55 rudybot: eval (aif 42 it #f) 15:18:56 chandler: ; Value: 42 15:18:57 chandler: ; stdout: "2" 15:19:10 Yikes. I still need to put together a patch to fix that delayed output thing. 15:19:30 what's that chandler? 15:19:31 rudybot: eval (let-cons (a (cons 1 2)) a-car) 15:19:31 chandler: ; Value: 1 15:20:04 synx: A quick proposal for a means of introducing bindings without having to standardize a complete low-level macro system. 15:20:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/86014 15:20:29 o.o 15:20:37 that's pretty clever! 15:20:41 The `define-syntax/identifier-context' thing is only there because syntax-rules does not bind the first part of a template as a pattern variable even if it does look like one. 15:21:16 Also, it's infinitely annoying that `-cdr' isn't an identifier. 15:21:33 making non-hygenic macros, to use in otherwise hygenic macros that behave in certain well defined ways yet allow for name mangling of identifiers... 15:21:57 ERRRRRRR! Why does it keep saying: reference to an identifier before its definition: C:/Test.txt 15:21:59 ?? 15:22:06 zachb: I think you're missing some quotes around a string. 15:22:55 (begin "anything goes here" only-variables-here) 15:24:15 Chandler: Thank you, it was the quotes! 15:25:11 good quoting is essential for any decent language 15:26:28 some of scheme is easier than Python, but some is harder. 15:27:37 now how do I close the file? 15:28:08 It closes all by itself! 15:28:20 If you're using call-with-output-file or with-output-to-file, the port will be closed when your thunk returns. 15:28:35 SWEET! 15:28:57 you can also (close-output-port port) if you like. Avoid (open-*-port) procedures though. 15:29:03 You can tell that your thunk has returned because it will tromp mud across your carpet, sit in your favourite easy chair, heave a sigh of relief and help itself to your best brandy. 15:29:18 They're a bit overly dramatic, you see. 15:29:57 Some of scheme seems harder than python, but once you get into python Deferreds, scheme is clearly the winner. 15:30:14 Sveklo [n=sveklo@gw0.stadinetti.fi] has joined #scheme 15:31:18 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:33:20 I have to agree there, anything should be easier! 15:39:31 -!- samth [n=samth@c-67-186-134-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:48:06 How do I change the background color of the window? 15:48:25 and how do I make a button to close the window? 15:50:52 (send frame show #f) will close the window. Have the button's callback procedure do that. 15:52:27 Cool, thanks 15:54:40 OK, in the text entry field, how can I make sure there is text? 15:54:46 In python it would be: 15:54:56 if feild == '': 15:54:59 pass 15:55:01 etc 15:55:25 and if no text is found, I need to tell the user to put some text in. 15:55:48 well (equal? string "") works... 15:56:11 There's also (string-null?) in srfi/13 15:57:04 so if the field is say Q then... 15:57:15 (equal? Q "") 15:57:47 be sure you use the text of the field not just the field (send field get-value) and such 15:58:33 But I am trying to see if the user put text into the field. If there is no text, won't it be comparing it to no text? 15:59:22 If the text field is empty, then (send field get-value) will return "" 15:59:58 OK, so if the text filed is empty, can I get a pop up box to say "Hey put some text in!"? 16:00:38 Sure, just create a new frame% and fill it with pop up box widgets. 16:01:26 You might also want to search for message-box and message-box/custom which are shortcuts for that. 16:01:44 OK 16:01:51 bunch of shortcuts actually... but they're on the same page. 16:02:23 I am still not understanding how I get it to do one thing if it has text, and another if it doe snot. 16:02:36 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/Windowing_Functions.html#(def._((lib._mred/main..ss)._message-box)) 16:03:05 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-64-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:03:19 (let ((text (send field get-value))) (if (equal? text "") (pester-user) (do-something text))) 16:05:33 COOL! 16:05:40 I gues I was over thinking it! 16:05:52 It happens to everyone. 16:06:50 scheme is great for curing that nasty over-thinking 16:11:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:13:39 lvh [n=lvh@83.101.78.7] has joined #scheme 16:13:42 hello :-) 16:14:07 OK, so how do I, under windows, launch another application from my scheme script 16:15:01 (subprocess) 16:18:42 -!- patmaddox [n=patmaddo@187.sub-70-194-120.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:19:34 Hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.212] has joined #scheme 16:20:39 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:24:03 what do you mean by (subprocess)? 16:24:20 would it be (subprocess "C:/ZB.exe") 16:31:44 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 16:34:36 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 16:35:57 How do I change the font on the text field? 16:38:56 CSS 16:39:18 oops, you are not on the web :) 16:40:39 zachb: if you're using PLT scheme ... 16:40:44 rudybot: doc subprocess 16:40:44 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/subprocess.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._subprocess)) 16:41:04 zachb: Did you look at the list of initialization arguments to a text-field%? http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/text-field_.html 16:41:15 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 16:41:37 zachb: You'll probably also want to look at http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/font_.html 16:42:47 *offby1* 's head spins 16:43:09 Are you sure it's not the rest of your body? 16:43:22 nope, it could also be the entire planet 16:45:36 chandler: (introduce-identifiers k ((car-part name - car)) ...) 16:46:01 Riastradh: Aha. If I had been thinking, that's what I would have done. 16:46:49 In any event, I think Al* by way of jcowan just suggested that I'm spreading AIDS with this macro, so I won't bother spending any more time on it. :-) 16:47:27 This discussion is too complicated. Can you please digest it and summarize it in, oh, about eighty bits for me? 16:48:15 There's actually no discussion. 16:49:26 "There's ac"? 16:49:44 It's cooler inside than outside, so yes. 16:49:50 No, no, no, copumpkin. 16:49:55 oh :( 16:50:03 5470abc0d249ffadbf0 16:50:08 lol 16:50:17 now I see 16:50:19 I think that was about half of the SHA-1 digest, if my approximate copying and pasting was accurate. 16:50:47 *alaricsp* immediately runs off and writes a git-based IRC client 16:51:55 :) 16:52:08 Sorry, I missed a hexit: 16:52:09 0 16:59:02 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:59:40 rdd [n=user@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:59:57 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 17:01:16 silence is golden :) 17:03:50 I can't figure out how to change the icon of the window. 17:04:01 I am reading the docs, but they are not making sense! 17:04:18 perhaps you are reading incorrectly :) 17:04:43 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:05:36 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 17:06:32 well I try (send frame set-icon "C:/locationoficon.ico") 17:06:36 it does not work 17:07:16 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 17:08:38 mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has joined #scheme 17:08:51 any ideas? please help 17:10:51 jlongster2 [n=user@69-196-152-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 17:11:29 what does not work? did it give you an error? was a message included with that error? 17:12:31 anyways I got to go 17:12:55 It says: set-icon in frame%: expected argument of type ; given "C:/ZBrownTechnology/VirtualClassroom/logo.ico" 17:13:03 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@gw0.stadinetti.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:13:34 so there is the problem 17:13:39 you cant give it a string 17:13:46 you need give it a bitmap 17:13:57 now figure out how to make a bitmap from a string 17:17:13 scheme convention says there there should be a make-bitmap function, that should at least send you to the correct place in the docs 17:19:25 found it, and it works! 17:19:32 :-) 17:19:38 now, since you are on a roll, how do I change the style? 17:19:42 of the frame 17:19:46 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@114.73.136.198] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:27:04 I try [style 'metal] and it says initialization for frame%: expected argument of type ; given 'metal 17:27:42 -!- Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:28:43 zachb: What does that error message tell you? 17:29:00 I think it says it wants a list of symbols 17:29:09 And you gave it only one. 17:29:19 OH, so I need to give it more? 17:29:27 No, try giving it a list containing just that symbol. 17:30:20 Like, (list 'metal), or '(metal) for short. 17:30:21 How do I do that? 17:30:28 OH, OK 17:30:58 It works, thanks! 17:31:38 -!- uman is now known as uman_readingmaps 17:32:09 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:34:03 -!- jlongster2 [n=user@69-196-152-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:44:27 Know how I would compile the .ss file to .exe? 17:45:10 Quadrescence [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #scheme 17:45:42 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has joined #scheme 17:47:09 Is that even possible? 17:49:51 Yes, it is possible. 17:50:06 It's in the documentation (as usual). 17:50:09 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/mzc/exe.html 17:53:05 A good tutorial on building a stand-alone GUI application from scratch would probably be useful... 17:58:11 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:59:58 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809DFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:01:57 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 18:08:03 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:14:00 exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.2.79] has joined #scheme 18:18:59 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 18:20:06 ofthelesser [n=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:24 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:01 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 18:24:33 I'd like to write a sorting function that can sort lists of arbitrary and mixed primitive data types...e.g. (sort cmp `(1 "foo" bar 1.0)) 18:24:53 is there a straightforward way to do this that I'm missing? 18:25:59 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:26:18 dstorrs: (sort cmp data) already exists. 18:26:39 (Hmm, probably depends on what Scheme you have...) 18:26:45 PLT 18:26:53 It requires that you provide a comparator of your own, of course. 18:26:54 I checked the docs. Maybe I missed it. 18:26:57 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 18:27:05 well, right. 18:27:29 I knew about sort. I'm asking if there is a standard comparator. or a way to convert arbitrary types to a single type 18:27:52 dstorrs: (format "~a" YOURARBITRARYDATA) ? 18:28:06 Then use string or any of the other string comparing procedures. 18:29:14 format "~a" converts anything? oh, cool. 18:29:37 format ~a converts anything? neat. 18:29:54 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdsleh221.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:30:12 danking: thanks. 18:31:12 dstorrs: No problem, the way that format works is described in PLT's docs under 12.5 Writing. That'll give you a better idea of exactly what it is that you'll be given based on your data 18:31:42 You have to be careful with things like structures and procedures because you'll probably be unable to sort those the way you might expect because their string representations are less than informative. 18:31:57 arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has joined #scheme 18:31:59 hi 18:32:03 Greetings. 18:32:14 does string-tokenize belong to which srfi, guys? 18:32:17 will do, thanks. 18:32:42 arthurmaciel, srfi-13. 18:32:51 gnomon: thanks 18:32:53 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-13/srfi-13.html#string-tokenize 18:32:56 No problem. 18:33:39 arthurmaciel, see also http://practical-scheme.net/wiliki/schemexref.cgi for the general-case answer to that question. 18:35:13 mmc [n=mima@cs137104.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:35:15 gnomon: thanks, again 18:38:49 dstorrs, there is no standard total order on the set of Scheme objects; nor is there a remotely sensible way to define one that agrees with EQ? or EQV? or even EQUAL? in the sense that (AND (OBJECT<= a b) (OBJECT<= b a)) if and only if (EQ{,V,UAL}? a b). 18:39:07 dstorrs, what do you want this for? 18:39:18 Riastradh: understood. but, for this purpose, it shouldn't matter. 18:39:18 Dark-Side [n=dark-sai@ip-155.net-82-216-217.roubaix.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 18:39:22 hi! 18:39:30 I'm writing a "pretty-string" function for a struct that involves a hash 18:39:49 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:40:06 I want the pretty string to come out with the hash shown in an easily-referenced order, and I want to allow the maximum (reasonable) flexibility as to what is used for keys. 18:40:38 if you are using objects or structs or other complex objects for your keys, all bets are off. 18:40:59 i'm having issues using files with scheme. my problem is: if i try open-output-file on an existing file, the procedure fail 'cause the file exists 18:41:01 but if your keys are numeric, string, symbol, etc. it should sort in an order that (at least) isn't totally random. 18:41:10 isn't it possible to write in an existing file ? 18:42:03 Dark-Side: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/file-ports.html#%28def._%28%28lib._scheme/base..ss%29._open-output-file%29%29 18:42:07 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/m5yu5c 18:42:07 check on the "exists-flag" 18:42:16 thank you :] 18:43:01 hm 18:43:01 Riastradh: is that sensible, or should I just not worry about it? 18:43:06 ok thank you 18:43:18 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-woxcuowhqmvexlrh] has joined #scheme 18:43:52 -!- Hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.212] has left #scheme 18:44:00 and hm. how do I had this flag? 18:44:06 (when calling the function i mean) 18:44:28 dstorrs, sorry, what do you mean by a hash shown in an `easily referenced' order? What are these keys? 18:44:33 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809DFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 18:44:41 ...Oh! By `hash' you mean `hash map' or `hash table', not `hash value'. 18:44:50 right 18:45:07 oh, ok found. 18:45:18 Are the keys homogeneous for any particular instance of this structure? 18:45:52 Sveklo_ [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:46:27 up to the user. 18:46:53 most likely, they will be symbols, but I can easily imagine some people prefering strings. 18:46:57 I'm writing a patch for the LeftParen web framework. Specifically, the "record" structure (record as in "the foo record" not as in "go record something"). 18:47:06 So you coul ask the user to pass a comparator procedure expressing a total order. 18:47:28 seems a bit heavyweight for a pretty-print function. 18:47:55 also, wouldn't be accepted by the original authord...it would require a change to the API 18:48:05 -!- Sveklo_ [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:48:34 really, I'm trying to do this because if I don't, I can't write unit tests that demonstrate that pretty-print is working. 18:48:50 (because I need the string to come out in a stable order for purposes of comparison) 18:49:00 so, beyond a certain point, it's not worth the trouble. 18:49:05 OK. Well, then I suppose it makes sense to use an ad hoc partial order that is total on a the subset of your data that you test with. 18:49:11 s/on a the/on the/1 18:49:24 SRFI 67 has a default-compare 18:49:46 hum, i've another question 18:50:04 when i use (open-output-file some-file 'append ... 18:50:09 every thing works fine 18:50:12 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-64-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:13 but when i do: 18:50:27 (call-with-output-file some-file 'append ... 18:50:29 it fails :s 18:51:22 why is that ? 18:51:23 Dark-Side: go read the documentation that I pointed you out. Note what the arguments to open-output-file are and how they are structured 18:51:37 s/pointed you out./pointed you to./ 18:51:46 ok 18:52:19 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:53:29 ok dstorrs, with call-with-output-port i must set the flag after the lambda 18:53:30 :) 18:53:33 thank you again :) 18:53:49 Dark-Side: specifically, it's a keyword arg. 18:54:27 so: (open-output-file path #:exists 'append) 18:55:47 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 18:56:50 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:57:18 Dark-Side: actually, I should ask--what Scheme are you using? 18:57:35 PLT (with drscheme) 18:57:53 (and from times to times I use mzscheme) 18:57:58 ok, good, so this is the relevant docco. 18:58:04 yeah :) 18:58:11 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:58:26 Anyway, keyword arguments can be freely intermixed with positional arguments. 18:58:40 so it doesn't matter if you put them first, third, second, whatever. 18:58:51 but they do have to have their keyword 18:59:42 oh, ok 18:59:42 so, (call-with-output-file #:exists 'append "some path") should be perfectly legit 18:59:48 ok 18:59:59 but (call-with-output-file "some path" 'append ) is not 19:00:02 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:06 hm. 19:00:30 Hmm. SRFI 67 is rather loose with its specification. It doesn't acknowledge until halfway through the document that the comparison procedures implement total orders on sets of equivalence classes of Scheme objects, rather than on the set of Scheme objects, and Section 2 `Introduction' even claims either misleadingly or erroneously `This SRFI defines a mechanism for comparing Scheme values with respect to a total order.' 19:01:15 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:01:45 fschwidom [n=fschwido@p5B26A61A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:02:54 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-rnljulnwgjxnaubx] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 19:03:31 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 19:06:58 in a format string, is there any difference between ~A and ~a ? 19:07:17 Depends on what your notion of `format string' is. 19:07:26 There are some `format string' systems in which those behave differently. 19:08:20 dstorrs: PLT Docs, 12.5: "~a or ~A displays the next argument among the vs" 19:08:24 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:08:31 In PLT #lang scheme or #lang scheme/base is there any difference between (format "~a" some-val) and (format "~A" some-val) ? 19:08:41 danking: yeah, that's why I was asking. 19:09:03 It would seem to me that, according to that statement in the docs, there is no difference in usage between the two statements you previously posted. 19:09:03 on the one hand, the not-case-sensitive thing is nice. 19:09:39 OTOH, giving up have your command space for future formatting controls seems...bold. 19:09:46 s/have/half/ 19:10:02 Half of Unicode is pretty big. 19:10:36 hoo boy 19:10:49 danking: Most of unicode is unsuitable for formatting flags. 19:11:06 -!- arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:11:16 Also, case sensitivity is only well-defined on certain subsets. 19:12:42 Eh. 19:12:45 The image of the case-folding map on the set of Unicode coded character sequences covers coded character sequence with most Unicode code points, so case-folding does not eliminate most code points. 19:13:10 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:13:33 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 19:14:35 Riastradh: Oh yeah, well, your mom does too! 19:14:50 (aka, I have no idea what you just said.) 19:15:35 danking: Have some complexity: http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Case_folding 19:16:10 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 19:17:07 My understanding is that there are very, very few questions for which case-folding is the right answer. 19:17:35 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 19:18:36 Let CCS be the set of all Unicode coded character sequences. (A coded character sequence is tantamount to a sequence of code points -- what you might call a `string'.) Let F : CCS -> CCS be the case-folding map. Consider its image, { F(c) \in CCS : c \in \CCS }. The set of Unicode code points that occur in some coded character sequence in that image is not much smaller than the set of Unicode code points. 19:23:18 Ah, right. Because the majority of code points don't have "case" in the first place: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/223f/index.htm 19:23:18 -!- ofthelesser [n=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:24:35 (And when I say `the case-folding map', I mean `Unicode's locale-independent full case-folding map', described in the Unicode Standard Chapter 5 `Implementation Guidelines', Section 5.18 `Case Mappings', Subsection `Caseless Matching', with data at .) 19:26:49 That is a pretty small set, compared to All Of Unicode. 19:27:42 (That's not a sine wave! How silly.) 19:27:46 dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:31:50 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:33:25 karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:20 Sveklo_ [n=sveklo@gprs-prointernet-ffcf6a00-155.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 19:38:30 Sveklo__ [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:39:24 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:41:29 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:44:16 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:45:49 -!- Sveklo_ [n=sveklo@gprs-prointernet-ffcf6a00-155.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:50:43 syntropy_ [n=who@unaffiliated/syntropy] has joined #scheme 19:50:55 Does anyone know of a DHT implementation done in Scheme? 19:55:01 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs137104.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:57:21 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-129-99.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:59:40 -!- zachb [n=zachb@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has quit ["http://irc2go.com/"] 20:01:00 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:05:14 nicoca [n=nicoca@mon76-1-88-168-192-93.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:05:17 -!- nicoca [n=nicoca@mon76-1-88-168-192-93.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:58 alaricsp1 [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-179.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 20:20:02 -!- alaricsp1 [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-179.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:11 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 20:25:15 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 20:31:50 Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 20:35:37 -!- Sveklo__ [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:37:22 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-179.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:38:47 danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-205.autorev.intellispace.net] has joined #scheme 20:41:54 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@p5B26A61A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:43:29 MononcQc [i=MononcQc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:43:55 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:44:17 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:31 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:48 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:45:07 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809DFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:53:38 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 20:57:07 -!- dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["no reason"] 21:00:37 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 21:05:37 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 21:21:18 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:57 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:46 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 21:25:06 i need a scheme implementation that is readable (not gambit), has recursive repls on exceptions (not chicken), and a decent C FFI 21:25:09 suggestions? 21:27:13 Ikarus looks like it's well maintained 21:27:59 can they pick any worse name, like oedipus or something? 21:28:09 Stalin ? 21:29:25 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 21:30:29 -!- danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-205.autorev.intellispace.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:30:35 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:53 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:06 edwardk1 [n=edwardkm@209-6-103-127.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:35:55 :D 21:36:40 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 21:39:45 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:40:18 -!- edwardk1 is now known as edwardk 21:45:02 exexex_ [n=chatzill@85.97.2.79] has joined #scheme 21:48:12 Zach [n=Zach@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:12 -!- exexex_ [n=chatzill@85.97.2.79] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:39 -!- Zach is now known as Guest88827 21:48:45 I need to check a text field to see if it is empty, if it is, I need to display a notification. I am using Dr Scheme. 21:50:12 Guest88827: What part of that is confusing you? 21:50:22 this sounds like a web programming issue, yes? 21:50:47 I have no idea how, and no, it is not a web issue. 21:51:46 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 21:51:51 My program has several text fields, I need to check to make sure the user put some text in. If not, I need to tell the user to put some text in. 21:52:10 I googled, and could not find anything. 21:52:34 Guest88827, can you link to the assignment description? Does it contain more details about the task? 21:53:26 It is not an assignment, but I can give you more details. 21:54:27 It has 6 text fields, the user needs to put text into the fields, then click continue. It will then write the information to certain text files. I can do all that, but I need to make sure I am not writing nothing to the files. 21:57:20 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 21:59:03 Someone had given me an answer earlier, but I forgot to save it. 21:59:09 Any help will do. 22:02:22 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:03:04 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.2.79] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729211433]"] 22:03:36 Guest88827: Were you here as "zachb"? 22:04:01 If you check the topic, you'll find the public logs of this chat, where you can recover the answer. 22:04:16 Oh? 22:04:55 how do I do that? 22:05:32 -!- uman_readingmaps is now known as uman 22:06:00 Try "/topic". 22:06:35 it didn't work! 22:06:45 or did I do something wrong? 22:06:45 *TimMc* sighs 22:06:53 :( 22:07:27 It works in my client. Maybe it isn't a universal IRC client command. Anyway, here's the link: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/scheme/ 22:11:40 Guest88827: You might want to change your IRC nick, too 22:12:10 OK, what log is it? 22:14:46 Chandler, wasn't it you that gave me the code example earlier, zachb? 22:15:04 I gave you a bit of example code, as did synx. 22:15:10 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:15:25 You should change your nick back to zachb. Try sending "/nick zachb". 22:15:41 OK, would you be willing to give it again? 22:15:47 -!- Guest88827 is now known as zachb 22:16:05 OK 22:16:38 No, but I'll give you the direct link to the log: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/scheme/2009-08/scheme-2009.08.25.txt 22:16:56 Are you a teacher? 22:17:04 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:17:25 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 22:18:06 I think the answer is "yes", given the way you've asked it. I do teach people. It's not my vocation, however. 22:18:24 kniu [n=kniu@ELMUNDO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:18:46 Oh, well, you do a good job. 22:19:05 Making me look it up seemed like something a teacher would do :) 22:20:19 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 22:20:57 Well, I'm not going to repeat myself when you can re-read the entire conversation from the logs. 22:22:35 OK 22:23:03 I found it and used the example, but it says that I am missing an else. 22:23:15 It says: if: bad syntax (must have an "else" expression) 22:23:34 The code it's complaining about should be highlighted in the editor. 22:24:01 It is, it highlighted: (if (equal? text "") (do-something "Put in your last nem!")) 22:24:01 You've got an `if' with one leg, where two are required in PLT (almost) Scheme. 22:24:49 How do I give it another leg? 22:25:16 I say, chandler. How terribly rude of you to call them `legs' without being sure that they are in fact legs. Some consider themselves to be branches, others arms, and they generally prefer to be collectively called `nondenominational syntactic appendages'. 22:25:17 What do you want it to do in the case that the test returns #f? 22:25:53 zachb: Scheme generally requires (if ), but some implementations allow you to drop the argument. 22:26:21 OK, so how do I fix this code: (let ((text (send fn get-value))) (if (equal? text "") (do-something text))) 22:26:25 r5rs if 22:26:25 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_98 22:26:28 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/4xlwxg 22:26:44 TimMc: That's not true. The R5RS allows (if test conseq). 22:26:47 See above. 22:27:09 chandler: Wait... so why does PLT *not* allow it? (Sometimes.) 22:27:41 Is it the Module #lang scheme language that does that? 22:27:47 It doesn't allow it in the Module language, which they also (confusingly) call Scheme. I don't know what their justification is; probably something about unspecified values being ugly. 22:28:11 zachb: Put something after the (do-something text) for the `else' case. If you don't know what to put, `#f' is a good choice. 22:29:20 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 22:30:46 OK, that worked, but now it says: expand: unbound identifier in module 22:31:00 and has (do-something highlighted 22:31:17 Is `do-something' defined? 22:31:34 OH, I understand it now! :)) 22:31:38 I think the intention was for you to replace it with whatever you want done. 22:32:04 I agree. 22:32:06 Thanks 22:34:46 is there a popup dialog for scheme? 22:35:03 I would like something like that, or I would like it to open a floating window. 22:35:10 To avoid confusion, you should probably use the term `PLT' instead of `Scheme' as the questions you're asking are all specific to PLT. 22:35:27 (Well, not *all*, but it'll give people an idea of how to respond.) 22:35:56 OK 22:35:56 zachb: Where did you look in the documentation for this? 22:36:26 I found the answer in less than 10 seconds in the documentation, just by opening up the table of contents for the GUI documentation and looking for "dialog". 22:36:45 well, I tried searching the documentation and found nothing. I know how to create a floating window, but how do I tell it to open the window if there is no text in the field. 22:37:20 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/search/index.html?q=dialog doesn't seem like nothing to me. 22:37:50 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/Windowing_Functions.html#(def._((lib._mred/main..ss)._message-box)) is a direct link to the function you probably want to use. 22:38:46 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]"] 22:40:18 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 22:44:42 It keeps giving me errors. 22:44:48 I am getting frustrated now. 22:44:56 Compilers do that. 22:45:32 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:46:20 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:20 Perhaps if you'd like to share your code, and describe the errors, I could help. 22:46:23 lisppaste: url? 22:46:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 22:46:24 zachb: It is important to build your application in small pieces so you can test as you go, rather than writing everything and then trying to debug at the end. 22:46:31 zachb: Go to that URL ^^, and paste your code. 22:47:21 zachb pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86041 22:47:48 TimMc, that only works if you understand what kind of pieces you need. 22:48:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/86041 22:48:24 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:48:28 Fare: How do you write a program all at once without understanding the pieces you need? Building things in small steps is actually much better, since you can always backtrack if you run into an issue. 22:48:35 zachb: Notice that the lisppaste bot pasted the URL already. 22:49:02 That's some wiiide code. You might want to insert some additional newlines. 22:49:06 Yeah, that is cool. 22:49:09 In any event, what's the error you're getting? 22:49:12 chandler, how can you understand the program without having written it? 22:49:45 rather, I write the whole program in a limited version, then add features. 22:50:23 zachb annotated #86041 "HELP!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86041#1 22:50:45 zachb: Did the code change between those two pastes? 22:50:51 What is the error message you're getting? 22:51:22 ON about line 20, llok for this line: (let ((text (send fn get-value))) (if (equal? text "") ((((do-something text)(#f))))) 22:51:40 I am trying to get a message-box to work where it says do-something 22:51:46 how do I do this? 22:51:58 Whoa. What's with all the parens there? 22:52:15 I don't know!? 22:52:24 I am lost! 22:52:27 Didn't you put them there? 22:52:33 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-196-186.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:33 yes, but when I take them out. It gives an error. Don't you have to have them to close all in the middle??? 22:54:05 It's giving you an error because `do-something' is not defined. And it's the opening parens around ((((do-something ... that I'm referring to. 22:54:19 I gave you a link a few minutes ago to a function you can use to invoke a message box. 22:54:33 maybe do-something is a function returning a function.... 22:54:40 syntropy_: It's not. 22:54:44 :) 22:54:48 It isn't defined, and he's lost. 22:55:25 masm [n=masm@bl7-197-242.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:55:43 zachb: I'd like you to find an interaction pane and evaluate the following line of code: 22:55:46 (message-box "Title" "Message" #f '(ok caution)) 22:57:37 so, can I go (define do-something (message-box "my title" "my message" [parent frame]))? 22:57:37 -!- Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 22:58:00 Not quite. That defines the variable `do-something' as the result of actually running that message box. 22:58:04 You probably want that to be a function. 22:58:10 I put that code in an interactive ane at the bottum of Dr Scheme, and it said: reference to an identifier before its definition: message-box 22:58:11 You should give it a better name, too. 22:58:23 That interactive pane probably didn't have the GUI module loaded. 22:58:30 OH 22:59:00 zachb: I saw this in your code: (#f) <-- what is your intent there? 23:01:45 TimMc: It was to give it an else expression. But it doesn't work. 23:02:28 zachb: Putting parens around generally means "Run this function" 23:03:14 -!- Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:03:14 Scheme does not use parens to group stuff to enforce order of operations the way C++ or Java do. Parens have a very specific meaning. 23:03:27 now my code looks like this: (let ((text (send fn get-value))) (if (equal? text "") (alert1 text ))) 23:03:43 and it still gives me the error: if: bad syntax (must have an "else" expression) 23:03:58 There are places where parens do *not* indicate a procedure call, such as in the argument list of a lambda. 23:04:58 zachb: Do you see that you are only giving `if` two things? It needs three. Do you know what those three things are needed for? 23:05:20 no 23:05:53 Then you need to go back to the documentation for `if` and learn what arguments it requires, then provide them. 23:06:22 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/if.html#(form._((quote._~23~25kernel)._if)) 23:06:53 I don't know what those *three* things are needed for either, TimMc. 23:07:18 But it's the way that it is, and so there are a lot of useless `#f's in my code. 23:07:21 chandler: I don't get the snark. Please be more explicit. 23:07:37 Ah, the two-arm vs. one-arm issue. 23:07:55 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:08:37 chandler: You could define a procedure called do-nothing and call it instead of using #f. :-P 23:12:44 OK, fixed that, but now it says: new: expected name and value binding 23:12:52 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:13:55 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #scheme 23:13:59 zachb: On what part of the code? 23:14:14 chandler: Or perhaps you could call it `meh`. That's nice and short. 23:14:41 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:15:26 That is where it is complaining and giving me the error 23:18:11 "That"? 23:18:51 This code, http://paste.lisp.org/display/86042 is what it highlights when it says: new: expected name and value binding 23:19:01 The *whole* thing? 23:19:38 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:19:40 yes 23:20:06 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 23:21:27 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:46 I am not sure what it means. 23:23:07 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:14 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:46 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 23:31:28 zachb: I don't even see `new' in the link you gave. 23:31:29 -!- RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.216.207] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:31:40 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:32 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:37 It is not there. 23:32:43 That is why I am confused. 23:39:38 OK, I think it had something to do with all the parens. 23:40:11 now it says let: bad syntax (not an identifier and expression for a binding) and highlights the word text in (let (text (send fn get-value)) (if (equal? text "") (alert1) fn1)) 23:41:00 Yeah zachb you have your parentheses wrong. Look closely at the syntax of let, to see what you're doing wrong. 23:41:47 What, I have looked over and over. 23:41:52 Can't figure it out. 23:42:34 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 23:47:58 -!- lvh [n=lvh@83.101.78.7] has quit ["leaving"] 23:53:55 zachb: (let ([foo bar] [qux mumble]) body) 23:54:22 You misssed `baz', TimMc. Also, `quux' has two `u's. 23:55:03 Riastradh: Hey, this is PLT's module language. Some things aren't quite canonical. 23:55:38 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:55:52 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:36 zachb: PLT allows you to use square brackets in place of parentheses, and it can be visually helpful in some places.