00:01:48 jcowan: Did err5rs get absorbed by small scheme? What ever became of err5rs? 00:03:12 "...there is no portable way for R6RS programs to import libraries other than those specified by the R6RS documents themselves." Not so horrid, actually. 00:03:31 From the Larceny nods 00:03:33 docs 00:11:12 Nothing happened to it. It may well be mined for either small or large Scheme. 00:11:34 I'd be happy to see some backward incompatibilities with R5RS 00:11:40 In particular, I'd like to see characters go. 00:12:55 The notion that strings are a sequence type over characters, and that string functions are natural lifts of character functions, just doesn't fit any more. 00:16:56 -!- MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@92.36.156.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:18:36 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:19:00 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:21:56 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:31:03 haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has joined #scheme 00:32:03 hello there.. i have a doubt... if i make my program with many threads, will this affect performance significantly or just memory usage? 00:43:05 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:48:03 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:48:23 ofthelesser [n=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:48:26 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 00:52:05 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:57:47 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:58:11 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 01:01:58 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 01:19:01 -!- haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:23:26 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-55-207-173.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:37:39 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:45:22 -!- Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:58 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:55:36 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:56:10 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:12 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 02:16:47 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:16:51 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:23:35 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:31:10 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:31:50 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:38:15 -!- mbishop_ is now known as mbishop 02:45:35 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:48:00 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:48:25 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 02:51:27 Wow, the R6RS ratification vote page is quite an interesting read. 02:52:32 I wasn't yet paying attention to Scheme at the time, so I'm sort of reconstructing how this all went down. :-P 02:53:08 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176200155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:55:02 Thren [n=Thren@c-75-67-111-180.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:05:12 jonrafkind [n=jon@pool-70-22-235-25.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:22 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176193053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:51 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 03:13:12 there is a really good tutorial on functional reactive programming, on some webpage with lots of animated gifs ... I lost the link and can't find it; anyone have it? 03:44:47 -!- jao [n=jao@31.Red-83-33-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:04 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 04:21:35 -!- Thren [n=Thren@c-75-67-111-180.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:25:15 Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:26:23 -!- zeroish` [n=zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:26:59 mmc [n=mima@cs137104.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 04:28:35 -!- drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-211-78.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:31:44 lowlycoder: google for "father time" 04:31:47 or "frtime" 04:55:03 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:56:15 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:21:01 thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@122.110.28.31] has joined #scheme 05:32:10 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:32:36 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 05:40:12 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:33 -!- Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:40 hm 05:55:47 I wonder if there exist FUSE bindings for plt-scheme 06:03:26 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:06:33 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@122.110.28.31] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:12:40 -!- Nshag [i=user@193.248.206.147] has quit ["Quitte"] 06:22:51 haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has joined #scheme 06:23:06 does plt-scheme mzc compiles only to bytecode or it compiles to machine code too? 06:24:05 DESCRIPTION mzc performs various tasks such as compiling Scheme source to bytecode, packaging exe‐ cutables, and packaging installable archives. 06:24:12 only to bytecode haole. There's no good machine code representation of what that bytecode does. has to be decided at runtime. 06:25:12 Elly: that was what i read, so i was in doubt 06:25:15 synx: i see... 06:25:57 synx: what about those options to generate C code from scheme files? 06:26:21 I dunno about those options. Never used 'em 07:39:07 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 07:47:23 can someone give me a hint to profile my code? i'm reading about the profile library, but i don't know if it has what i want... i have a thread that keeps itself in an infinite loop and i need to know how much time does it spend in each call, and not the sum of all the calls 07:49:59 sorry, i'm using the plt scheme 07:52:05 wahjava [n=abbe@opennic/abbe] has joined #scheme 07:52:12 hi all 07:52:57 I'm running mzscheme. Is there anyway to change the default browser used for 'help' function ? 08:00:56 *haole* is sad because he found out that channels in plt are quite slow 08:02:32 -!- haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:03:12 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:06:00 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:06:25 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 08:12:06 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:15:44 ooo, common larceny has been updated :) 08:25:58 -!- poucet [n=poucet@li23-146.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:28:20 poucet [n=poucet@li23-146.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 08:36:06 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:39:44 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:39:47 -!- wahjava [n=abbe@opennic/abbe] has quit [""going to study center, be back later.""] 08:44:17 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:48:51 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:49:19 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:56:45 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:59:37 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:03:59 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:06:36 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:10:54 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 09:54:17 -!- etoxam_ is now known as etoxam 09:56:02 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:54 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 10:06:30 CL SUCKS 10:06:36 Er, hi. 10:07:36 rdd [n=user@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 10:15:10 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:27:29 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 10:37:31 jao [n=jao@31.Red-83-33-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:38:39 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 10:45:59 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:47:24 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@84.42.251.245] has joined #scheme 10:50:43 I'm using the command line interface to mit-scheme; is there some nicer interface? Eg. one that actually uses line-buffering, instead of pretending to be line-buffered... 10:55:28 edwin? 11:08:44 ...that isn't emacs. 11:08:57 Ok, guile decides to use line-buffering to implement line-buffering. 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#scheme 15:30:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@129.10.201.78] has joined #scheme 15:32:51 Most chicken people use make. No real scheme-ish build tools... be rather easy to make though. 15:33:22 cool, thanks 15:33:54 I was just thinking of Ocaml, where they have a Makefile which will automatically determine dependencies, etc... 15:34:57 just a list of either dest, (dest source), or (dest source handlers) for the various handlers for file types 15:35:16 chicken doesn't really *have* dependencies. 15:35:42 Make a .scm file that uses (include) to include the various modules in whatever order makes sense. Then just compile that one file. 15:42:05 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:43:02 twobitsprite: I use make. 15:43:35 I've written inference rules to make it automagic. 15:44:36 -!- Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:43 edwardk [i=4bec2004@gateway/web/freenode/x-mqrvcxiymbiajzzo] has joined #scheme 15:50:37 synx, what do you mean `Chicken doesn't really have dependencies'? 15:50:42 If you include a file, that's a dependency! 15:56:46 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:22 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:01:12 Yeah, but you never do anything to that file you included. You just compile the including file every time. 16:01:45 If you change the included file, that will affect the compilation of the including file. 16:02:23 That's a dependency: the output of compiling the including file depends on the state of the included file. 16:04:29 hm... 16:04:42 You do know what the word `depend' means, right? 16:18:52 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-75.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:32:23 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 16:41:38 Pacopito [n=Pacopito@209.Red-88-18-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:47:10 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@129.10.201.78] has quit [Success] 16:48:32 Digan [n=digan14@ACaen-251-1-27-6.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:51:05 -!- Digan [n=digan14@ACaen-251-1-27-6.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #scheme 16:58:02 -!- Pacopito [n=Pacopito@209.Red-88-18-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Adios adios!"] 17:00:46 -!- RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.166.243] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:01:04 RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.166.243] has joined #scheme 17:24:33 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:27:32 -!- Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 17:29:00 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:33:24 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:32 jonrafkind [n=jon@129.10.201.78] has joined #scheme 17:50:53 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@129.10.201.78] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@129.10.201.78] has joined #scheme 17:52:42 Repentinus [n=Repentin@209.163.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 17:59:56 karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:09:00 -!- HG`` [n=HG@xdslek254.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:09:26 dharmatech [n=root@c-75-72-202-174.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:09:36 Anybody here go to the workshop yesterday? 18:10:39 I'm too poor. 18:11:09 I'm guessing alot of the folks who did go are now at MitchFest. 18:11:30 Just curious about how the scheme-reports discussion went. 18:12:57 R7RS needs to have an R5RS/R6RS compatible module system in some form or another. 18:14:07 (With a required library-definition facility, hopefully). 18:15:25 Gotta run... latar 18:15:29 -!- dharmatech [n=root@c-75-72-202-174.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:16:57 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 18:20:45 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 18:21:24 You could implement an R(n-k)RS interpreter in RnRS and use that to load older modules 18:22:04 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:16 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 18:48:38 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:49:45 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 18:55:03 arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has joined #scheme 18:55:05 hi 18:55:17 how can I make a procedure with optional parameters? 18:56:06 . not sufficient? 18:56:22 rudybot:eval ((lambda (a . rest) (display rest)) '(1 2 3 4)) 18:56:23 leppie: your sandbox is ready 18:56:23 leppie: ; stdout: "()" 18:56:48 rudybot:eval ((lambda (a . rest) (display rest)) 1 2 3 4) 18:56:49 leppie: ; stdout: "(2 3 4)" 18:56:52 oops ... :p 18:58:11 leppie and Jafet: thanks 18:58:40 for finer tuning, you could use case-lambda 18:59:17 hi 18:59:32 can someone understand this exercise: 18:59:35 Write a procedure phone-unspell that takes a spelled version of a phone number, such as POPCORN, and returns the real phone number, in this case 7672676. You will need to write a helper procedure that uses an 8-way cond expression to translate a single letter into a digit. 18:59:38 ? 19:00:03 look at your telephone 19:00:22 then type POPCORN 19:00:34 Bonus credit: write the inverse relation 19:00:40 thanks leppie 19:00:59 Jafet: triple bonus score, print all permutations 19:01:06 so there are the letters of the keyboard 19:02:18 the 8 way cond could be something like: (case c 19:02:45 (case c [(a b c) 2] ...) 19:03:03 or with characters 19:03:10 that's the easy part 19:03:57 I must make it with high order functions and after that with recursion 19:03:58 what is the hard part? 19:04:31 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:41 I was not understood what letters to associate with the digits 19:04:45 well first write the basic version, then refactor into higher order procs where you can 19:04:51 recursion is a guven 19:05:05 given 19:05:16 (unless looping does not count) 19:05:57 till now just I advanced till recursion 19:06:32 at the moment I'm at the recursion 19:08:41 so at each step you need am index, and something to collect the results 19:10:25 leppie, I have some functions that does easy such things 19:11:15 there are provided in this book (that I actualy read it) 19:11:22 http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/ss-toc2.html 19:19:32 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:59 monsier [n=monsier@fw-fw-226.c-able.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:25:16 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:25:21 -!- monsier [n=monsier@fw-fw-226.c-able.ne.jp] has left #scheme 19:34:15 guys, does (include ...) evaluates any code? 19:34:15 a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has joined #scheme 19:35:30 hmm... WRITE doesn't like "\n" 19:41:28 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:43:22 is PRINT not part of the r5rs? I don't see it in the I/O section, but chicken has it 19:45:36 It is not. 19:45:51 Nor is any `\n' syntax in strings. 19:54:16 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:54:24 Bagarn [n=mikl@h179n5-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #scheme 19:54:49 haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has joined #scheme 19:55:32 hello there... my plt installation came without the profile module (dunno if it comes by default)! i'm trying to find out how to manually install it, but can't find the info anywhere... does anybody knows how to do it? 20:05:22 good news. 20:05:32 installing modules under PLT is trivial 20:05:56 just put: (require ) in your code, and it will be automatically installed for you. 20:06:09 haole: should have sent the above to you specifically 20:06:42 you can read up on require in the Guide and the Reference (http://docs.plt-scheme.org/) 20:06:55 r2q2 [n=user@acad245101.eastdorm.uic.edu] has joined #scheme 20:07:13 thanks 20:08:26 does it mater what kind of scheme engine you run? 20:09:00 Bagarn: Do you mean implementation? 20:09:38 well yes, I guess. I'm new to scheme and plt so I can be wrong here 20:10:15 Bagarn: Well what do you want to do with scheme? 20:12:05 "PLT collects unused symbols" ... and returns them for the deposit? 20:12:29 dstorrs: but the profile collection is not available in planet plt... require will only install collection that resides there, right? 20:12:38 heh, right now I'm just following the "how to design programs" that plt scheme linked to, I havent realy decided what I want to learn yet :) 20:13:28 Bagarn: Well if you are following htdp you should probably use plt scheme. 20:13:45 Bagarn: If you decide to learn of course. 20:14:46 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:14:57 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 20:15:30 well I thought that I will start of with plt schemes resources first and then move on to sicp or another "legendary" lisp book/course 20:17:35 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs137104.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:17:59 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 20:18:24 haole: ah. well, that would be the case. 20:18:41 Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:19:03 dstorrs: i think i know what's wrong... the version of plt in fedora 11 is 4.1.2 20:19:16 dstorrs: the lastest stable release is 4.2.1 20:19:18 dstorrs: :( 20:20:10 why don't you just download the source? 20:20:37 if it's available 20:23:30 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-163-86.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:25:06 heh, I guess that the source isn't available but you can still download the binaries from their site 20:28:56 Bagarn: The source is available 20:29:42 http://svn.plt-scheme.org/ 20:30:10 Bagarn: Although, he is talking about the packaged plt in fedora. 20:30:24 *he /halole 20:31:33 but what I meant was that he could have downloaded the source instead of the binary to get the latest realese 20:32:16 (but I accedentaly forgot that plt was realesed as source) 20:32:44 *accidentally 20:33:53 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:38:58 Bagarn: i'm making a fedora package for it... gotta contribute too :) 20:39:20 heh :) sounds nice 20:39:46 usually i am more lazy to post the version bump bug than to make the package... go figure 20:41:21 :P 20:46:17 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 20:49:05 *mejja* sings: en sockerbagare hr bor i staden han bakar kakor mest hela dagen 20:49:22 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 20:49:56 tyvrr kan jag inte reste av texten, annars hade jag fortsatt :P 20:50:14 ;-) 20:50:43 swedes unite! 20:51:10 You have nothing to lose but your turnips. 20:51:47 it's interesting that all good and not so common programming languages makes a lot of success in europe 20:51:56 scheme, common lisp, prolog, haskelll 20:52:02 and so on... 20:52:35 we europeans like "obscure" things(obscure to you americans) 20:52:40 like prolog :) 20:53:37 go Norway! beat Sweden! :P 20:53:58 in what I am not sure 20:54:06 what do you guys compete over 20:54:36 ventonegro [n=alex@189.62.124.149] has joined #scheme 20:54:38 we have things like... socialistik taxes! hah! try to beat that norway! 20:55:09 you and your oil money... 20:55:13 :P 20:55:13 Norway has duck guns and elk rifles, makes passing those harder 20:55:35 also Sweden did it 20:55:42 so now Norway has to not do it 20:55:53 (actually I'm just making this up as I go along) 20:56:12 (I do have Norwegian ancestors though) 20:56:19 The programming language of choice for American gun nuts is Scheme. 20:56:34 heh :) 20:56:36 only because of Shivers 20:56:44 Well, whatever. 20:56:57 so like, one prominent gun nut :P 20:57:14 ESR, too. 20:57:24 he likes CL I thought 20:57:44 Well, his Lisp days were Maclisp, but he gets call/cc. 20:57:56 I'm a gun nut but I have two favorites, Scheme and Haskell 20:58:09 :) 20:58:18 Thuryago. 20:58:34 My wife is a pro-registration/regulation gun nut, but she doesn't program at all. 20:58:36 GET 'R DONE 20:58:53 I think I've become too stupid to grasp Haskell. 20:59:04 jcowan: it's not that hard 20:59:16 I know. That's why I think I've become stupid. 20:59:17 some of the really fancy stuff is hard 20:59:37 Ive never realy tried haskel, I have a book about it but I never read it 20:59:41 jcowan: you just have to temporarily burn your bridges and just do Haskell for a little while 20:59:49 you will get it 20:59:53 I participated in a Practical H reading group for a while, but some things just baffled me. I'm not used to that feeling. 21:00:09 you will wish ghc had a nicer REPL 21:00:12 but you will get it 21:01:18 jcowan: what's baffling? 21:01:24 monads? 21:01:52 No. 21:02:07 how was the learning curve for you at scheme? I just started programming in scheme and I love it, but I havent seen any deeper librarys for networking and so on for real world uses yet(but again, I'm new to the language) 21:02:13 type system? 21:02:15 Those I get, thanks to "sh as monad" and "monads in Forth are just not popping all your args from the stack." 21:02:24 Type system, annoying but fine. 21:02:39 Laziness, I guess. 21:02:43 yes 21:02:49 There was a specific example I got blocked on, but I can't remember it now. 21:02:55 that can be a problem until you really truly get used to it 21:03:01 Dammit, statements in programming languages should *do* things. 21:03:09 and it has practically screw up your programs 21:03:42 usually via inefficiency where you are expecting more eager behavior 21:03:57 I'm still not totally used to it 21:04:58 karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:01 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-75.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:05:19 sometimes i try to fake a global variable in scheme lol 21:05:21 Bagarn: for me Scheme was harder, but it was also my first language in this general class 21:05:40 my interpreter gets embarassed with me 21:05:56 Haskell took a long time of just nibbling away at it until I started to get stuff 21:06:19 Bagarn: networking, and other real-world things, aren't standardized. So it depends on which scheme you're using. 21:06:26 Lisp was very hard for me, but I learned it from a reference manual with no Lisp to play with. Scheme as a dialect of Lisp wasn't a big deal, though I still can't say I'm intuitive about call/cc and the idioms around it. 21:06:35 but they it was like, hey, monads are sorta abstract algebraicy 21:06:44 *then it was 21:07:07 Bagarn: Scheme isn't a language, it's a family of languages with a common core. Instead of portability *between* implementations, the Scheme world focuses on portability *of* whole implementations. 21:07:18 offby1: so there aren't any standard librarys for those things? 21:07:19 or universal algebraicy or category theory-y if you know that stuff already, which I don't 21:07:23 Bagarn: nope 21:07:40 PLT is the biggest implementation 21:07:45 jcowan: yea, I think I have gotten the core of that 21:08:00 Where did Xah Lee come from and why does he still post... 21:08:14 just ignore 21:08:20 Because he can. And if you mention his name, he may well appear. 21:08:40 *karlw* stfu's 21:08:41 Adamant, in terms of file size? 21:08:41 -!- zeroish` [n=zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:53 Jafet: most everything 21:08:59 In terms of features and libraries. 21:09:03 yes. 21:09:10 and stuff like DrEd 21:09:19 zeroish` [n=zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:09:37 and even MzScheme is not small compared to other similar Scheme translators 21:10:10 now here comes Eli to tell me my memory is wrong :P 21:10:14 I'm building tinyscheme at the moment, about 130k 21:10:27 Chibi-scheme is smaller and more compliant, if you care. 21:10:29 it's not a real Scheme 21:10:33 tinyschem 21:11:03 tinyscheme is used in a few things though 21:11:26 one of which I can't remember if I can talk about yet or not so I won't 21:12:24 Hrm, it doesn't seem to be missing a lot of scheme 21:12:40 (How hard are hygienic macros to implement?) 21:13:14 Not very. Chibi-scheme does them entirely in Scheme. 21:13:18 As do most systems. 21:14:50 Does a duck gun quack when you fire it? 21:16:19 Only when you think it's a real gun. 21:17:57 tinyscheme is used for some special configs in OS X. 21:18:42 And in the Gimp 21:21:38 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:22:30 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 21:24:27 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:26:15 Chibi is also probably faster, because it's a bytecode interpreter, not a codewalker. 21:27:21 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 21:27:25 karlw` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:27:36 -!- karlw` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 21:28:19 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:30 karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:26 -!- haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:34:27 rudybot: eval (let* ((a 1)) (set! a 2) a) 21:34:28 arthurmaciel: your sandbox is ready 21:34:28 arthurmaciel: ; Value: 2 21:34:37 rudybot: eval (let ((a 1)) (set! a 2) a) 21:34:37 arthurmaciel: ; Value: 2 21:35:28 I don't think let* differs from let, if you only bind one variable. 21:37:41 rudybot: eval ((lambda (a) (set! a 1) a) 2) 21:37:41 arthurmaciel: ; Value: 1 21:40:01 I guess I'm only really bothered by how PLT seems to strongly encourage using macros. 21:45:38 you mean, their own macros; or one you're supposed to write? 21:45:42 I almost never write macros 21:47:47 offby1: I mean: Why use something like for/list when you have for-each, map, and fold? 21:50:03 I suppose ``Only when a higher-order function would make code significantly less readable than an iteration macro.'' 21:50:49 karlw: I can't answer that, although I do find myself using for/list and friends a lot. It feels easier. 21:51:07 I've replaced a lot of named lets with for/list and for/fold. 21:51:54 I feel confortable with `fold' I suppose. 21:52:37 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:52:53 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 21:53:55 -!- a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:54:07 a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has joined #scheme 21:54:26 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:58:18 http://dev.gentoo.gr.jp/~hiyuh/misc/chibi-scheme-0.2-test08-callcc-segv.txt 21:58:20 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/lw8dva 21:59:01 and chibi-scheme's Makefile doesn't handle dso well. 22:00:42 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:03 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 22:01:05 http://dev.gentoo.gr.jp/~hiyuh/misc/chibi-scheme-0.2-ld-DT_TEXTREL.txt 22:02:04 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@129.10.201.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:35 -!- r2q2 [n=user@acad245101.eastdorm.uic.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:44 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:08:13 -!- easy4 [n=easy4@c-68-45-192-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:08:54 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:29 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:26:39 I figure each project ought to have a couple of really critical macros 22:28:14 exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.161.116] has joined #scheme 22:28:35 -!- a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:46 a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has joined #scheme 22:37:57 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:46:14 -!- ventonegro [n=alex@189.62.124.149] has quit [] 23:00:49 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:03:47 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:15:08 I'm trying to follow this tutorial: http://chicken.wiki.br/man/4/Using%20the%20compiler 23:15:26 in the example with multiple files, it doesn't work for me 23:16:54 nevermind... 23:16:58 stupid mistake 23:17:45 sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:18:26 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:06 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:22:44 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:25:32 Tell us what the mistake was, and we can put in a warning against it. 23:26:15 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:11 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:00 -!- sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:39 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:39:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:44:55 Ringo48 [n=Ringo48@97-122-180-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:48:45 -!- RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.166.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:53:19 -!- Repentinus [n=Repentin@209.163.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:57:31 -!- a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:57:33 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:57:43 a-s [n=user@89.122.144.197] has joined #scheme 23:58:51 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-212.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:58:52 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50808050.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme