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Do you do this often yourself, as just the regular day-to-day use of Git? 01:31:49 `Oops, the Git registry got screwed up. Time to reformat my hard disk and reinstall Windows!' 01:32:48 Riastradh: I don't pretend to understand how you got INTO this situation, but this is likely the way OUT. 01:33:21 Here's the sum total of the destructive commands that I have run in the clean repository: git pull, git remote prune origin 01:33:47 Oh, and `git clone', of course, at the very beginning. 01:34:12 Unless I have a wrong mental model of what is a `destructive command' (e.g., I presume that `git log' and `git diff' are nondestructive), I am *sure* of this. 01:34:46 I ran `git remote prune origin' only because `git pull' told me to, by the way, and I was told by a human to run it. I still don't know what it did, or why I was supposed to run it. 01:35:28 (That is, I was assured by a human (who, I presume, is more experienced with Git than I) that running it as `git pull' recommended was the right thing to do.) 01:36:06 And if there were changes that I cared about in the repository, what should I do? 01:36:25 Toast [n=Toast@69.9.120.58] has joined #scheme 01:36:39 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:36:41 My first instinct would be to save a patch using `git diff' -- but it's `git diff' that's broken here! 01:38:09 Riastradh: you can branch, commit, reset master to see if it helps and then worry about restoring your changes 01:38:27 Riastradh: "git help reset" explains this 01:38:48 Riastradh: git diff does show your changes right, just also some other stuff? 01:40:17 (Please let me know if I appear to be being unreasonably negative toward Git. I am trying, trying hard, to like it and to use it as it is intended to be used, but even my exceedingly minimal use of it has been an exceedingly negative experience for me, with random incantations to fix problems that were not my doing in the Git repository, with random incantations necesasry just to look at the complete history on files, not to men 01:40:35 commiserate with eli 01:40:39 I begin to understand why I'm often told that I'm nuts to continue using svn instead of switching to git. Once this process seems normal, svn must look very crazy indeed! 01:40:48 Also, you got cut off at "not to men". 01:40:49 on files, not to men... 01:41:04 *arcfide* is enjoying his use of Monotone so far. 01:41:14 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:41:20 ...not to mention that someone else (who I also think is much more experienced with Git than I) has accidentally overwritten the entire repository on Savannah when trying to push some of his changes, &c.) 01:41:38 Riastradh: Are you using Another's Git repository, or is this something you're doing for your own code repositories? 01:41:52 chandler: merge much? 01:41:55 I'm guessing "no" 01:41:57 No. 01:42:05 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:42:15 then svn is fine 01:42:25 The Git repository in question is MIT Scheme's. I am working on my several checkouts of that repository, of which one may have local changes (I don't know, and I don't trust `git diff' now), and of which one is *completely* clean, having had only `git pull' and `git remote prune origin' run in it. 01:42:38 *arcfide* gasps. 01:42:44 It thought MIT Scheme used CVS? 01:42:46 *offby1* gapes 01:42:54 We switched to Git a couple of months ago. 01:42:54 It thinks! 01:43:04 *arcfide* throws in the towel. 01:43:04 *chandler* grapes 01:43:16 *offby1* fishes out the towel and returns it for the deposit 01:43:32 *chandler* suspects offby1 no longer knows where his towel is 01:43:38 Hehe, while CVS has all manner of issue, at least one can say that these issues are well known, and well known workarounds and workflows exist to deal with them. 01:43:39 Riastradh: I think what happened is that you pulled in a commit which changed the $id$ line but your working copy was still the same... Thus it now shows up as another change. Does that make sense? 01:43:52 chandler: you don't know where it's been, either 01:44:24 hkBst, no, that doesn't make sense. Why didn't the $Id$ line get changed by pulling in the commit? 01:44:56 Riastradh: possibly because that particular file had changes. Speculating here. 01:45:00 Different files in different local copies of the repository are affected, by the way. 01:45:03 No, absolutely not. 01:45:10 Once again, this problem turned up even in the totally clean repository. 01:45:11 Riastradh: ok 01:45:50 Riastradh: you should probably still try to not work in master directly, but only work in your own branch 01:45:53 arcfide: For the most part, those workarounds are now `use svn'. I don't think there are any remaining cases where cvs would be preferable to svn. 01:45:55 Riastradh, Wow. You must be cursed. Or maybe it's a conspiracy. 01:46:14 hkBst, huh? What's `master'? 01:47:06 conventional name for the default branch 01:47:06 Riastradh: master the canonical name of the default branch 01:47:11 roughly analogous to "trunk" in svn 01:48:00 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:48:02 Please understand that I am a novice user of Git, and that there are basically four operations that I want to perform: pull changes from the, well, what I'd have called `master repository', but I guess that's wrong -- the repository on Savannah, anyway --; view the commit messages on files; view the changes made to files; and commit changes to files. 01:48:15 More along the lines of HEAD in CVS in that git imbues it with some special meaning, if I understand correctly. 01:48:24 I knew how to perform these operations in CVS: `cvs update', `cvs log', `cvs diff', `cvs commit'. 01:49:08 same in git, but you will also need to either "push", or tell someone to "pull" form you. 01:49:12 s/form/from/ 01:49:27 I thought I knew how to perform these operations in Git -- `git pull', `git log', `git diff', and `git add' followed by `git commit' and `git push' --, but three out of the four have failed in some way or another for reasons beyond my comprehension. I begin to suspect that the only reason that `git add', `git commit', and `git push', haven't failed yet is that I've only done them about twice. 01:50:29 In CVS I used branches for provisional changes that did not warrant immediate commission to the repository. Am I supposed to use branches in Git for every change or something? 01:50:39 naw 01:51:15 (and in CVS I used branches for, well, branches -- releases, for instance, that warranted some, but not all, changes from HEAD) 01:53:55 I recommend the videos on http://git-scm.com/documentation 01:56:08 Videos?? Last year I watched Linus being an arsehole and telling me what I already knew about distributed version control systems, at least for fifteen or twenty minutes or so of his talk before I got sick of it, but that didn't help me to use Git. Will the other ones help me to know what I have done wrong by running `git pull' in a clean repository? 01:56:46 Riastradh: although I guess its possible that something IS wrong. Have you tried "git fsck"? 01:57:07 % git fsck 01:57:07 dangling commit 778a3ca4d0896dae04ff8370d96f61e67b2c78bb 01:57:07 dangling commit 4c0c4b1a477b2703e5583a70adf1c1ed281985cf 01:57:07 dangling commit 944e6001e2266d9e1f2b960fe9e9edee4b1fde3e 01:57:11 What's that supposed to mean? 01:57:20 Riastradh: :) the other ones are more informative 01:57:25 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:58:11 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:29 I'm not sure but I think "dangling commit" is benign 01:58:32 The git-fsck(1) man page says that it might mean that the commit is simply a root node. If there are, say, three branches, including `master', does this probably mean that nothing is wrong with the repository? 01:59:12 (aside, that is, from all the grief it is causing me!) 02:00:01 I never run git-fsck so I don't know what it's about. 02:00:12 I thought Git's `master' was like CVS's `HEAD', by the way, but I just ran `git pull' twice in a row, and got two different lines (although in both cases it said `Already up-to-date' at the end): 02:00:16 + 944e600...a996c47 HEAD -> origin/HEAD (forced update) 02:00:18 a996c47..944e600 master -> origin/master 02:00:29 Shouldn't `git pull' be idempotent if there are no new changes? 02:00:44 you'd think :-| 02:00:48 And what's this `HEAD'? 02:01:43 (Earlier, before I was told that Git's `master' is CVS's `HEAD', I might have guessed that Git's `HEAD' and CVS's `HEAD' were analogous concepts, but now that guess has been called into doubt.) 02:02:07 Riastradh: HEAD is the last commit on the current branch I think 02:02:48 Riastradh, There is nothing special about "master", it's just another branch. It happens to be there by default, so most people use it. 02:03:26 Use it like "trunk" in svn. 02:06:31 Riastradh: do like any distributed source code managers? 02:06:43 Did you mean `do _you_ like...'? 02:06:55 offby1: FWIW, there is nothing wrong with svn and merging, except for that ridiculous bug they still didn't fix. 02:06:58 yeah, it's 4 at night here :) 02:07:08 Yes, I like Darcs. 02:07:11 apparently it shows in my typing 02:07:29 And in general, episodes like the ones Riastradh's having now are very good at arguing against switching to git. 02:07:43 I have not really tried to use Bazaar or Mercurial for anything except checking out the occasional project that I am not involved with. 02:07:45 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:08:17 As well as the fact that I keep seeing "git experts" being baffled by what git is doing and/or supposed to be doing. (offby1: that includes you, with that whole deal with generating a patch set...) 02:08:20 eli: without knowing the cause it could be one of a number of things... 02:08:50 hehe :) 02:08:55 My experience with Darcs has been exceedingly positive. I don't even remember `trying to learn' Darcs. Maybe that's because I first used it five years ago, but my recollection is that it just did what I wanted: recorded changes, moved changes from one repository to another, and showed me the changes. 02:08:57 hkBst: If there's *anything* that a repository should be doing *extremely* well is not lose your data -- which makes it a very sensitive piece of software. 02:09:37 hkBst: IOW, Riastradh's problem (and assuming he's intelligent enough to do some shallow level of reading) is totally unacceptable. 02:09:44 (On git's side, not on Riastradh's.) 02:10:08 It's unacceptable to assume that Riastradh is intelligent enough to do some shallow level of reading? 02:10:36 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:10:58 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 02:11:03 Unacceptable to have such problems with your repository and its tools; in case that wasn't clear. 02:11:08 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:11:29 I've heard many advocates of Git remark that while its default `porcelain' may not be great, its `plumbing' is this cool system that does this or that neat operation and exhibits this or that neat property. My reaction is that the plumbing can be as cool as it wants, but it won't matter unless I can use it without thinking about it, because when I'm working on software under revision control, my mind is on the *software*, not on 02:11:44 That's exactly the approach that made svn win big over cvs at the time, and an approach that I didn't see in any distributed tool yet. 02:12:45 Riastradh: You got cut off at "not on"; but that sounds like another way to phrase "the" problem with git. 02:12:56 BTW, what/where are the Linus videos? 02:13:00 ...not on the revision control, and I have next to zero mental capacity to devote to the revision control. 02:13:16 I'm not sure I care for the porcelain/plumbing analogy, when it comes to my software. 02:13:17 eli, there are links to videos at . 02:13:48 Riastradh: The google visit video? 02:13:52 Yes, eli. 02:14:00 Thanks. 02:14:20 That's one of the videos on that page, anyway, and the only one I've watched (any of). 02:14:22 For what it's worth, I learned how to use darcs in about the same amount of time it took me to conclude that I'm happy to ignore git for now. 02:14:43 eli: well Riastradh's situation does resemble that one guy with the Japanese windows version's one a bit :) 02:14:59 *Riastradh* blinks. 02:15:36 Riastradh: apparently PLT has a bug on only that Windows and only on his system 02:15:44 I see. 02:19:36 Yeah, that thing starts in a pretty arrogantly-stupid kind of way. 02:19:53 Riastradh: anyway, if you create your own branch in which you do not merge (which pull does do) then you should be able to mostly forget git is there 02:20:06 hkBst: No, that's not the same -- because the main problem is in the interface, and that has so far proven to be *consistently* bad, not just for Riastradh. 02:20:36 hkBst: In any case, the problem itself is more like DrScheme crashing and taking down the system with it, which is far from that guy's problem. 02:20:58 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 02:21:02 eli: maybe I haven't been listening in the right places then. 02:23:31 hkBst: The bottom line is the severity. A repository breaking is probably the worst thing that can happen in a project. 02:23:40 s/probably// 02:23:45 s/is/*is*/ 02:24:17 :) but I don't believe that that has happened 02:25:43 (a) IIUC, Riastradh has some changes that are in danger of being lost now, (b) regardless, it sounds like he has spent some good amount of time trying to fix it -- when (like he said) he should be hacking! 02:27:53 Riastradh: did these changes in the $id$ line magically appear one day after you pulled and then you edited them out again yourself? 02:28:57 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:32:18 Riastradh: do you have these issues with other git repos or only with the MIT one? 02:35:12 I missed the intro to the git topic. Did this start in a mailing list? 02:36:39 TimMc: yes, mit-scheme-devel 02:37:05 zbigniew: ping 02:39:13 -!- Poeir_ [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:43:09 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-106-16-199.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:44:35 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 02:45:55 I just read about expansion passing style: http://www.brics.dk/~hosc/local/LaSC-1-1-pp53-75.pdf 02:46:27 I wonder why I never heard about that before 02:48:20 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:48:52 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 02:53:04 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:55:18 hkBst, only with MIT Scheme's -- I have never tried committing changes to other repositories, except simple test repositories in which I first experimented with Git. 02:57:20 eli, to be fair to Git, I think that I actually don't have any changes in the repository. This whole kerfuffle began because I suspected that I might have had changes and wanted to confirm or discofirm my suspicion; then Git gave me what is as far as I can tell bogus information. 02:57:30 hkBst, I am pretty sure that I have never touched the $Id$ lines myself. 02:58:19 Riastradh: In any case, (b) was the important point. 02:58:23 At the very least, I am certain that I have never touched the $Id$ lines of some of the files, because I have never touched those files. 02:58:40 Even more important to me in the context of PLT since I'm the one who will be doing the time spendage. 03:00:33 eli, right. I just wanted to make sure that any complaint that should get made about Git contain no uncertain information about the situation. 03:02:31 Oh, I remember now. 03:02:41 I wanted to fix something in MIT Scheme. 03:03:02 Good thing I still had the debugger open, or else this Git kerfuffle would have put it completely out of my mind. 03:07:33 Either he's a *really* bad speaker, or an extremely arrogant one, or he doesn't know what he's talking about when he's talking about the highlevel view and/or other systems. 03:07:46 Or more likely a combination of all of these. 03:07:59 (With a lot of intentional ignorance for the last part.) 03:08:02 Linus? Yes, all three, I think. 03:08:23 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176210186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:35 Why are you watching that? 03:08:59 To get the point of the bad git "spirit" that I've heard about. 03:09:22 eli: What are you watching? 03:09:44 r2q2: Linus blabbering about git revision control, and not really saying anything. 03:10:13 git -and- revision control. 03:11:50 From what I recall, he did state a couple of facts about the general concept of distributed revision control systems that are true, and, it seems to me at least, self-evident. And for the rest of the talk he was a blabbering arsehole (of which he was very well aware). I think he even stated at the beginning that he was going to be an arsehole and that he was bad at giving talks. 03:12:19 Yes, for all of that. 03:12:37 Including the self-evident, which makes this a mostly pointless watch. 03:13:05 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:13:35 But it's amusing to see him twitch when after raving about "truly distributed" and "everyone's equal", he says that it doesn't really matter since nobody cares about any branch except for *his* branch. 03:14:41 Anyway, I gave up any hope for useful information after the first fifteen minutes. I'm not sure why I let the video run for that long, to be honest. 03:14:49 We've improved things -- everybody is allowed to talk, no restriction. (Oh yeah, instead of forbidding speaking, we just won't listen.) 03:15:20 That's the traditional approach in, say, Hyde Park. 03:16:32 Sort of interesting also that github pretty much centralizes git repositories also. 03:17:32 Of course, the whole concept of promoting distributed repositories with an "everybody's equal" motto is bogus. 03:18:57 To make this more concrete, he's talking about how great it is that there is no need for "giving people write access" and stuff like that -- and how it removes this whole chunk of politics. 03:19:05 The merit of a distributed revision control system is not that every user is equal, or even that there is no central repository (a state of affairs that would be hard to deal with for most projects), but that users are not *tethered* to a central repository and can do revision control independently of it. 03:19:25 But the bottom line is that github or wherever the software's *main* repository is, *will* have access rights in exactly the same way. 03:20:11 Riastradh: Yes. 03:20:39 *eli* chokes. 03:20:58 He just referred to some people being "my lieutenants". 03:21:31 *eli* imagines subgroups being called "squads" next. 03:22:29 So hm... conceptualizing a pipeline as a series of procedures, each of which has the next procedure as an argument, CPS style. 03:22:56 "Dukes" would be a more accurate word. The kernel community is a feudal system. 03:23:15 You read some bytes from a file or something, then pass it to the next procedure, which modifies or decodes the bytes, then passes them onto the next procedure after that. 03:23:18 Futile indeed. 03:23:39 Luckily, it doesn't matter unless you want to be a kernel developer. 03:24:27 One procedure could call the next one multiple times for each its own call, possibly with a generated header, and then decoded data and stuff. 03:25:27 A step in this pipeline would have to take the next step as an argument, then return a closure procedure that consumes bytes... 03:26:34 Riastradh: for me, feudal and futile don't even vaguely rhyme 03:26:48 s/rhyme/sound alike 03:28:16 Context has undoubtedly biased me, but I think that I pronounce them one way or the other depending on the situation: at the end of a clause, `fuTILE', but preceding a noun, `FUtle'. 03:28:31 Write access to a trusted server is a similar form of authentication to someone signing your commit. It's just the latter has the technological advantage that it can be distributed by untrusted parties. 03:29:17 No, sorry, those approximations of approximations of phonetics were not quite right either; the stress is always on the first syllable, but the difference is whether the second syllable has a vowel at all (or at least a long vowel versus a short vowel). 03:29:23 And verified by untrusting parties, synx 03:29:44 The word you want is "(un)reduced" 03:37:02 Anyway, time for bed. 03:39:32 -!- of_the_lesser [i=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 03:39:36 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:30 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:41:44 of_the_lesser [i=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:43:30 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 03:44:37 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:45:14 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:58 Wow, all this trouble over a little piece of revision control. 03:51:21 that's cause my awesome revision control software has not been written yet 03:51:33 when it's done, it'll blow all competition away 03:51:45 even the old professors will switch from RCS or CVS 03:51:54 copumpkin: Hehehe, I'd like to see that. 03:52:00 it will also delete useless code, right? 03:52:04 :] 03:52:17 I just recently decided to give Monotone a shot. I have to admit that I do find myself somewhat impressed. 03:52:18 leppie: and fix your bugs before you commit broken code 03:53:13 Clippy: It's seems your code is a mess. Would you like me to fix it for you? Delete all. [OK|Confirm] 03:53:31 copumpkin: i thought that's what error-correcting modems were supposed to do back in the day 03:53:40 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:57:08 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:28 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:11:47 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:13:16 synx pasted "contract..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/84964 04:13:42 :( 04:14:05 When I try to use run it errors out, saying "two of the clauses in the or/c might both match" 04:14:31 That is, (-> passable/c passable/c) and (-> passable/c (not/c passable/c)) might match. 04:15:04 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 04:15:26 I'll just make everything into any like it ought to be, but seemed kind of weird to say that passable/c and (not/c passable/c) might both match. 04:15:29 -!- gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:42 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:26:22 Yay it's work 04:26:26 https://synx.us.to/code/filter/filter.ss 04:26:41 ... 04:26:45 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/filter/filter.ss 04:26:46 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/filter/test-filter.ss 04:27:37 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 04:28:42 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Client Quit] 04:29:01 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 04:33:15 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.14.210.197] has left #scheme 04:33:32 I hope to use that instead of making a thread and a pipe for each processing stage... 04:53:27 -!- delopart [n=sfv@85.96.144.220] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:54:01 delopart [n=sfv@88.235.222.247] has joined #scheme 04:57:24 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:57:47 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:04:07 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:04:32 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:09:05 -!- Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:09:44 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 05:12:41 abbe [n=abbe@61.246.140.245] has joined #scheme 05:12:57 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:13:00 -!- abbe is now known as Guest5123 05:13:37 -!- Guest5123 [n=abbe@61.246.140.245] has left #scheme 05:22:11 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:28:02 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:29:37 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 05:33:33 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 05:52:47 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 06:10:58 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:20:55 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #scheme 06:21:46 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:14 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:25:26 kinks_ [n=kinks@wnklmb01dc1-185-33.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #scheme 06:30:59 -!- delopart [n=sfv@88.235.222.247] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:31:57 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:35:33 so frustrating... feels like I've got it all figured out but when I think about implementing it... 06:36:44 -!- kinks [n=kinks@wnklmb01dc1-185-33.dynamic.mts.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:38:55 (let ((mode 'start)) (lambda (bytes) (case mode (('start) (set! mode (bytes-ref bytes 0)) (restart (subbytes bytes 1))) ((0) (list-parse bytes)) ((1) (key-parse bytes)) ((2) (signature-parse bytes)) (else bytes)))) 06:39:01 ...it just gets ugly. 06:42:13 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:43:40 your second 'start should be start 06:47:24 incubot: does music have to mean something, why can't it just be sound? 06:47:28 are you sure you didn't also mean to do (BEGIN (CONVERT-FILE (GET-FILES-IN-DIR (CAR FILELIST))) (CONVERT-FILES (CDR FILELIST)))? 06:50:09 oops, yeah zbigniew. 06:51:43 I just don't know a good clean way to write filters or parsers. 06:51:48 I do 06:52:32 soupdragon: magic does not count 06:54:14 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:56:05 I read a piece file, right. It might be encrypted first off. So I have to read another piece file, decoding it into the key to decrypt with. After decryption, it might be the signature of another piece, so I have to start over and read that other piece file. After decryption it's not a signature, it might be a piece-list, so I have to decode it into the pieces, and for each piece, start over and read that piece. 06:57:28 But what if when I request a key, for instance it turns out to be a signature of a piece-list of a key? You could go on forever. It's recursively dependent. Just coordinating all that isn't making me a happy synx. 06:58:33 What if you inserted a key as an encrypted piece? What key would you encrypt it with? That key could have been inserted encrypted too. So you'd request a key to decrypt a key to decrypt a key. 07:17:37 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 07:19:01 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056D7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:53:28 -!- kinks_ is now known as kinks 08:06:29 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:19 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056D7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:07:37 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:12:56 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:14:34 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 08:14:36 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 08:16:02 -!- poe_ [n=poe@adsl-ull-165-125.48-151.net24.it] has quit [] 08:35:24 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 08:45:24 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:30 -!- makmanalp [n=legato@80.76.201.55] has left #scheme 09:14:41 thesnowdog_ [i=thesnowd@114.73.16.145] has joined #scheme 09:18:38 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-106-16-199.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:19:11 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-222-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:19:39 nicholasw [n=nw@c-76-21-11-106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:31:50 schmir [n=schmir@p54A92B8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:32:18 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@114.73.16.145] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:51 HG` [n=wells@xdsleq092.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 09:42:03 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:49:00 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:53:03 -!- nicholasw [n=nw@c-76-21-11-106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 10:00:33 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:02:26 Steele [i=steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has joined #scheme 10:03:21 greetings! I'm from Denemo, the Music Notation Editor. http://www.denemo.org We use GUILE as Scriptinterpreter. 10:03:59 I'm fairly new to scheme and we have written a function now that returns a complete HTTP POST header including some web-generated xml data. 10:04:08 its all in one string and I have to read out certain parameters. 10:04:18 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:04:21 Can you suggest a way whats the best way to do this? 10:05:16 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:12:14 Steele: could you give an example? 10:12:39 yes of course 10:13:16 http://pastebin.com/m7cca34b6 10:13:25 this is a return value and saved as a string 10:14:15 now, for example, I need to have line seven's denemo_mw_UserName=Rolf; in a seperate string 10:14:34 or lguserid=21 from line 17 10:18:06 Steele: generally what you want to do is use nested lists as long as you are working with them, not strings. 10:19:39 hkBst: ok 10:19:49 Steele: unless you want to do some simple regex-like string manipulation, you'll need a parser. Best to not use strings until you're done. 10:20:20 .oO( someone named Steele is new to Scheme? ) 10:21:08 foof: I read this morning that there is a famous steele in the scheme scene :) 10:21:20 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 10:21:59 so your function returns #t 10:22:02 Steele: can you give as somewhat higher-level view of what you are trying to do? 10:22:08 hkBst: of course. 10:22:33 what function returns #t ? 10:22:56 hkBst: I need to extract the data do send it back to the server. Bascially the underlying C is to send POST messages to our server and receive the return values 10:23:28 hkBst: So I log in to our Server-API and I get this in return. Now I need to save the values to include them in the next call. 10:23:41 ( someone named Steele is new to Scheme? ) > #t 10:27:00 Steele: alright. Is there not already a function to parse strings from your server-API? 10:27:36 hkBst: you mean in C? 10:27:51 no, its very simple 10:28:09 ok, can you describe which parts you want then? 10:28:41 ie, skip until you have read 4 spaces, then blah blah, or what? 10:29:17 or search for "blah" replace with "foo"? 10:29:40 if I want to make it simple I only need the values from the search for "foo", read an int from the rest of the string 10:34:04 hkBst: sorry... I think I'm just too new. You are talking about lists, right? 10:34:06 nested lists. 10:34:50 Steele: unless you want to do some really simple-minded things you prolly need to parse the xml 10:35:35 hkBst: it is really simple. 10:35:50 and should be. Its just for exact one purpose. 10:35:51 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 10:36:01 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A92B8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:36:34 an xml parser would be too much. Unless I can do it in scheme 10:36:40 Steele: isn't the C side already using libxml? 10:36:49 Steele: simple would be newlines and spaces 10:37:09 nah use sexps 10:37:44 Just in case it wasn't obvious: parsing XML is non-trivial. 10:38:01 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38:04 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 10:38:19 ...oops, you folks knew that already. Too early in the morning for me to enter conversations. 10:39:58 I will choose the simple way. 10:42:13 If I can figure it out :) 10:44:43 soupdragon: what do you mean? 10:51:30 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:53:20 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 10:59:36 hkBst: thanks for you help but I think I'm not able to do it. But I don't want to bother you any further. 10:59:57 you can do it 11:00:41 soupdragon: what was your way with "sexps" ? 11:02:23 cracki [n=cracki@44-116.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 11:07:50 FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 11:09:00 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:19:40 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 11:20:14 schmir [n=schmir@p54A92B8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 11:20:54 use scheme syntax 11:21:04 there's already a parser for that 11:21:42 soupdragon: can you show me where to look in the manual or a tutorial? 11:21:53 r5rs read 11:21:54 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_612 11:21:56 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/58gpe2 11:22:04 that is the most important one 11:22:36 you can use with-input-from-file or similar to read from the XML source 11:22:42 well 11:22:46 SEXP source 11:22:47 not XML 11:24:43 soupdragon: thanks, I will have a look. 11:32:44 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:37:52 -!- fadein [i=fadein@static-ip-62-75-255-124.inaddr.server4you.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:46:16 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:50:19 -!- ski__ [n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:50:35 mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:51:10 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:53:17 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 11:54:26 masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:03:59 forcer [n=forcer@e177145236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 12:04:00 fnord123 [n=fnord123@host86-154-37-244.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 12:35:38 bzzbzz_ [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 12:35:38 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:51:43 Swords2 [n=kohii@pool-71-112-25-59.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 12:53:11 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 12:54:53 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsleq092.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:56:13 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A92B8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:57:17 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:59:49 -!- Swordsman [n=kohii@pool-71-112-25-59.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:09 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-222-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:05:16 Swordsman [n=kohii@pool-71-112-25-59.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:14:18 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-222-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 13:15:24 HG` [n=wells@xdsleq092.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:18:50 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:20:06 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:26:01 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has joined #scheme 13:30:22 -!- bzzbzz_ [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:02 -!- Swords2 [n=kohii@pool-71-112-25-59.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:36:54 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:42:36 -!- cracki [n=cracki@44-116.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 13:42:38 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:52 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 13:49:55 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 13:50:00 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:00:41 jeapostrophe [n=jay@eng-4-34.hotspot.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 14:03:26 delopart [n=sfv@212.174.74.11] has joined #scheme 14:15:25 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 14:17:38 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:18:28 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 14:22:32 _p54342 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has joined #scheme 14:22:57 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:31:45 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:35:59 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-246-37.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:42:22 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-179.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 14:44:29 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-246-37.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:50:50 Toast_ [n=Toast@69.9.89.47] has joined #scheme 14:59:30 hey 14:59:39 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:59:48 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:00:16 i read plai chapter 6 and there are some subject called callbacks is it interested with programming concept in plai directly 15:00:48 -!- Toast [n=Toast@69.9.120.58] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:01:19 jonrafkind [n=jon@204.99.164.30] has joined #scheme 15:03:56 -!- _p54342 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has left #scheme 15:07:50 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:12:00 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 15:15:26 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:15:54 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@174-154-7-61.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 15:17:07 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 15:19:15 haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has joined #scheme 15:19:23 how do i transform an identifier into a string? 15:19:39 like, if i type (car (one two)), i get one 15:19:45 and i want to turn one into #"one" 15:29:22 haole: Not sure what you're asking, exactly. 15:29:26 in chapter 6 page 45 on plai interp function i have two question . (fun-body fun-val) 15:29:26 (aSub (fun-param fun-val) 15:29:26 means body from fun-val ? But we dont have fun as datatype and (interp arg-expr ds) this is eager if i do "Lazy" must i write arg-expr 15:29:40 -!- Steele [i=steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has left #scheme 15:29:41 TimMc: i think i found what i need... it's symbol->string 15:29:45 still testing though 15:30:01 haole: Oh, you want to turn *symbols* into strings, not identifiers. 15:30:57 TimMc: yes! i'm just catching up while reading the documentation... a few concepts are still unclear 15:32:01 haole: Word of warning: In some Schemes symbols can be case-sensitive, sort of. 15:32:41 *TimMc* does not approve of case-insensitivity... 15:33:22 thanks... i was not aware of that... i'm starting with pltscheme and intend to migrate to some other when i get some experience and find myself in a demand for greater perfomance 15:33:41 however, i've heard that pltscheme's compiler can build very fast binaries 15:33:47 nowadays 15:35:55 eli: How come I didn't hear about Mitchapalooza until now? 15:36:25 what does difinition-time repository mean 15:36:42 it is chapter 6 plai page 46 15:39:04 jlongster [n=user@c-71-226-180-91.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:14 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has joined #scheme 15:43:58 hotblack23 [n=jh@91.5.109.124] has joined #scheme 15:44:26 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsleq092.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:31 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:47:25 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-29-224.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:49:21 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:50:43 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-64-222-181-252.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 15:57:31 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 16:08:49 -!- masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:09:01 -!- haole [n=ivan@189.35.188.83] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:10:16 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 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[n=eric@155.69.195.87] has quit [Client Quit] 16:39:53 underspecified [n=eric@155.69.195.87] has joined #scheme 16:40:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:42:04 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:42:13 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:43:53 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 16:50:21 flyfish [n=flyfish@pixout.appriss.com] has joined #scheme 16:50:39 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:00:20 jlongster [n=user@c-71-226-180-91.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:10:48 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@174-154-7-61.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:06 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@host86-154-37-244.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- ToxicFrog [n=ToxicFro@69-165-140-82.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- chandler [n=n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- klutometis [i=klutomet@pdpc/supporter/active/klutometis] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:06 -!- certainty [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:12:46 fnord123 [n=fnord123@host86-154-37-244.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 ToxicFrog [n=ToxicFro@69-165-140-82.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 certainty [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 klutometis [i=klutomet@pdpc/supporter/active/klutometis] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 chandler [n=n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 17:13:41 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_426 17:13:42 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/nkr6s5 17:14:09 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-106-16-199.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:14:16 ^ Seems that "It is an error if list has fewer than k elements." is a bit wrong. Shouldn't it be s/less than/less than or equal to/? 17:16:06 That's a pretty simple error... What happens when there are seriously wrong statements in the specification? 17:18:59 hey 17:19:05 can i ask a question about plai 17:19:11 are there someone who knows plai 17:19:15 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 17:23:50 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has joined #scheme 17:24:01 delopart, just ask.. 17:24:28 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:00 When the interpreter encounters a function application, it must ensure that the function’s pending substi- 17:27:01 tutions aren’t forgotten. It must, however, ignore the substitutions pending at the location of the invocation, 17:27:01 for that is precisely what led us to dynamic instead of static scope. It must instead use the substitutions of the 17:27:01 6.4. IMPLEMENTING FUNCTIONS USING DEFERRED SUBSTITUTIONS invocation location to convert the function and argument into values, hope that the function expression evaluated to a closure, then proceed with evaluating the body employing the repository of deferred substitutions stored in the closure. 17:27:12 this tells me the dynamic scope right ? 17:28:03 I dont understand somethig we throw lots of identifier and its value.And we make subst only one timeThe other in ds is waiting one subs finished right ? why we igore that 17:28:16 i dont know may be i understand wrong 17:29:39 dharmatech [n=root@portal1.uofm-guest.wireless.umn.edu] has joined #scheme 17:29:54 ping jao 17:31:47 -!- dharmatech [n=root@portal1.uofm-guest.wireless.umn.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:24 and one more question in fig 5.2 we finish app in interp with mtSub and book said this is because just a special case if function cannot be nested but in fig 6.2 app in interp we finish app with closure line.We hold env in closure right ? Why both of them are different 17:35:49 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-71-226-180-91.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:38:19 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-coakviubogosyuhz] has joined #scheme 17:42:23 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@204.99.164.30] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:42:29 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@host86-154-37-244.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["leaving"] 17:48:46 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-245.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 17:51:52 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:14 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 18:07:40 what is the aim of cons? in scheme 18:11:00 underspecified_ [n=eric@155.69.195.87] has joined #scheme 18:11:25 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:11:32 -!- underspecified [n=eric@155.69.195.87] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:16:05 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-246-37.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:20:12 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:23:30 bytecolor [n=user@32.152.57.50] has joined #scheme 18:26:48 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:28:22 underspecified [n=eric@155.69.195.87] has joined #scheme 18:29:07 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@155.69.195.87] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:31:10 -!- underspecified [n=eric@155.69.195.87] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:39 xwl [n=user@222.130.130.172] has joined #scheme 18:40:11 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-241-164.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:27 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs162149.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:43:26 curtisw [n=cw@c-71-194-80-68.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:43:30 'lo 18:44:03 does anybody know if there is an outward-facing hash function in plt scheme? 18:44:22 I'd like to be able to do (hash val) and get a mostly unique integer 18:47:36 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:50:56 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:51:04 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@63.118.139.182] has joined #scheme 18:51:14 -!- delopart [n=sfv@212.174.74.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:52:06 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 18:53:06 -!- gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 18:57:12 jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-21.hotspot.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:00:39 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-155.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:01:36 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:01:55 EnglishGentv2 [n=pumpkin@32.130.5.198] has joined #scheme 19:02:16 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:07:58 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-106-16-199.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:41 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-106-16-199.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:15:31 -!- of_the_lesser [i=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:18:07 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@63.118.139.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:07 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.152.57.50] has left #scheme 19:25:17 ofthelesser [i=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:30:36 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-222-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:48:32 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:53:09 akiross [n=akiross@host-78-12-234-127.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 19:53:17 hi 19:54:07 i've a quick question: reading SICP (chapter 3.4.2) i read about the collect special form, but in scheme48 it isn't present and i can't find it anywhere 19:55:17 can someone tell me more about it, please? 20:00:01 -!- EnglishGentv2 [n=pumpkin@32.130.5.198] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:30 Elly [n=pyxystyx@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 20:01:44 does there exist a scheme database layer? 20:02:09 "SQL Scheme" is an unfortunately useless google search :P 20:02:19 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-106-16-199.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:02:23 -!- curtisw [n=cw@c-71-194-80-68.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:04:11 Elly: http://practical-scheme.net/gauche/man/gauche-refe_121.html#SEC363 20:09:50 ankou [n=quassel@p57A6C027.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:01 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]"] 20:10:24 akiross: i can't seem to find a reference to collect; where exactly did you see it? 20:12:38 -!- jao [n=jao@21.Red-83-43-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 20:17:17 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:17:27 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-106-16-199.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:59 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-21.hotspot.utah.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:18:06 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 20:18:26 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:26:55 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@91.5.109.124] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:26:55 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:26:55 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:26:55 -!- etoxam [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:26:55 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:26:55 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-72-95-78-181.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:28:11 hotblack23 [n=jh@91.5.109.124] has joined #scheme 20:28:11 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 20:28:11 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:11 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-72-95-78-181.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:11 etoxam [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 20:28:11 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #scheme 20:28:46 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:31:27 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@91.5.109.124] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:31:27 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:31:27 -!- etoxam [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:31:27 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:31:27 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-72-95-78-181.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:31:27 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:34:47 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:35:32 TimMc: Don't ask me, I have no role in that. 20:41:45 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-72-95-78-181.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:11 akiross: can you refresh my memory about what collect does? 20:46:16 etoxam [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 20:46:55 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056D7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:47:06 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #scheme 20:51:08 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-241-164.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:52 tewk [n=tewk@katan.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:10:57 masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:11:34 -!- masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #scheme 21:20:24 eli: Actually, I don't know if I'm the intended audience for that event 21:22:41 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:30:01 -!- ofthelesser [i=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:31:52 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has quit [] 21:31:56 Madars [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has joined #scheme 21:37:50 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:41:17 ofthelesser [i=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:50:59 masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:52:37 -!- Cytrick [n=Thren@c-75-67-111-180.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:53:16 aleix [n=aleix@97.Red-83-61-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:54:20 -!- aleix [n=aleix@97.Red-83-61-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:24 aleix [n=aleix@97.Red-83-61-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:56:24 -!- masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:56:36 masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:00:33 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 22:01:12 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:10 -!- masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #scheme 22:03:42 masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:17:28 -!- flyfish [n=flyfish@pixout.appriss.com] has left #scheme 22:21:36 mmc [n=mima@cs162149.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 22:27:19 -!- aleix [n=aleix@97.Red-83-61-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 22:31:08 Madars- [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has joined #scheme 22:33:43 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056D7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:36:42 -!- Madars [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:37:26 -!- masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #scheme 22:39:58 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 22:40:18 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 22:49:18 curtisw [n=cw@c-71-194-80-68.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:51:40 TimMc, remember that list indices are zero-based. 23:04:18 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:07:41 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:15:15 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:16:20 masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 23:23:08 -!- masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #scheme 23:24:18 rntz [n=rntz@pool-96-235-185-65.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:25:19 does anyone know whether there's an option equivalent to --mute-banner for mzscheme v4? 23:26:48 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:29:08 I suspect so ... 23:29:41 ... and yet I cannot think of it. 23:29:52 rntz: the way to get that question answered is to invoke the magic name of eli. 23:30:07 Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani 23:30:12 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:30:14 *offby1* nods gravely 23:30:27 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 23:36:11 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:06 masm [n=masm@bl5-107-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 23:43:13 Quadrescence [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #scheme 23:44:50 -!- xwl [n=user@222.130.130.172] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:51:16 klutometis, collect is used in the stream processing chapter, as special form which make easier to write nested mapping. 23:51:59 I guess it doesn't exist (e.g. is purely defined as example), but as the book uses it and call it a special form, so i was asking. 23:52:55 this is the form of collect found in the book: (collect (( ) ... ( )) )