00:04:02 -!- Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:24 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:14:22 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:15:22 -!- antoszka_ [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:17:30 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:19:26 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 00:24:14 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-jlxopjpmzlktpwvl] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:25:10 asorbus [n=shawn930@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:25:44 -!- asorbus is now known as sps 00:26:17 -!- sps is now known as shawnps 00:27:39 -!- vandemar [i=holy@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:28:23 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:28:59 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:14 tabe [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has joined #scheme 00:33:46 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:35:51 vandemar [i=bella@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #scheme 00:39:17 jao [n=jao@21.Red-83-43-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:24 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #scheme 00:55:03 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:56:48 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:00:58 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:01:32 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has joined #scheme 01:09:33 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:10:26 dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet03.porta.net] has joined #scheme 01:11:45 lowlycoder [n=x@DNab43887f.Stanford.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:11:58 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #scheme 01:16:08 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit] 01:19:43 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 01:22:54 *dysinger* is trying out geiser 01:25:39 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:26:23 minion: chant 01:26:23 MORE EVIL 01:31:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:34:26 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36:18 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 01:36:20 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-24-171.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:47:33 [bjoern] [n=bjoern@dslb-094-223-219-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 01:48:50 <[bjoern]> Hi. DrScheme is telling me "draw-bitmap in dc<%>: expected argument of type ; given #f -- === context === -- ...\collects\drscheme\private\drscheme-normal.ss:208:15" and refusing to launch. The file in question appears unchanged; removing the config files has not helped. any ideas? 01:49:58 without knowing any other details, it sounds like some other file (perhaps a bitmap file) has been removed, hence the #f instead of a bitmap object 01:52:40 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@200-203-57-143.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:54:26 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 01:56:30 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-24-171.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 01:57:30 <[bjoern]> hmm it does try to open a recycle.gif (filemon tells me) and fails; converting recycle.png to recycle.gif in the right place does not help though. It's been a while since I used it, but I should not really have changed anything... 01:57:32 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 02:03:18 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-24-171.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:03:29 Adamant [n=Adamant@66.213.192.210] has joined #scheme 02:11:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:11:56 ofthelesser [n=steve@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:15:51 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 02:16:41 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:16:53 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:21:17 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:21:22 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 02:23:27 -!- blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:26:18 -!- RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-6439.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:22 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet03.porta.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:29:24 -!- [bjoern] [n=bjoern@dslb-094-223-219-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #scheme 02:33:39 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:33:42 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:34:29 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #scheme 02:50:25 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:53:03 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176215099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:24 antoszka_ [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 02:57:18 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:00:07 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:02:24 -!- ofthelesser [n=steve@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:06:11 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:08:41 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176211195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:41 socialite [n=piespy@78.8.138.56] has joined #scheme 03:31:50 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 03:34:00 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 03:40:17 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-172-237.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:44:59 -!- prael [n=martin@72.159.59.202] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:49:00 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 03:51:12 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:58:05 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:02:00 incubot: don't you love the law of cartoon gravitation; such that bodies don't fall until they realize they're suspended? 04:02:04 Yup. And as capitalism, gravitation has a few interesting effects on how humans behave. I do think capitalism has more problematic effects, and is easier to abolish, than gravitation. 04:02:55 klutometis: Capitalism only takes effect once you notice it? 04:03:02 heh 04:03:24 surveillance, i think, belongs to that class of phenomena, too 04:05:06 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-175-89.net.novis.pt] has left #scheme 04:10:06 Toast [n=Toast@69.9.124.161] has joined #scheme 04:10:33 Hey 04:10:56 ToxicFrog [n=ben@76-10-167-236.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 04:11:18 Oh hey there 04:12:30 Hey 04:12:40 Normally I'm in here and #lua and a lot more besides, but, power outages 04:12:51 Ah, I see 04:14:42 -!- antoszka_ [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:14:45 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 04:16:40 I'm checking out scheme and this is weird. 04:17:12 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:17:54 Quadrescence [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #scheme 04:19:40 The syntax does take a bit of getting used to, yes 04:20:42 What kind of things are you looking at doing with scheme, Toast? 04:21:06 Lua, lol 04:21:25 Not sure really 04:21:57 I originally wanted to learn more about lua, and then ToxicFrog told me about scheme 04:21:59 synx: he's a new programmer, we (#lua) pointed him at SICP as a good introductory programming text 04:22:56 Oh okay. 04:23:18 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 04:23:21 Since Lua is long on resources for programmers new to lua, but short on resources for people who are just starting to program 04:23:38 And the languages have a lot of conceptual similarities. 04:24:38 I don't know much about Lua. 04:24:44 Looks Javascriptey. 04:25:22 Kind of. 04:25:40 I can't really recommend SICP as an introductory programming text. But if you want your mind blown then picking that first is a good way to do it. 04:25:54 SICP is a fine introductory text 04:26:16 Put Javascript, Scheme, and Python in a blender. Mix well. Strain out non-C89-portable libraries and glaze with a convenient C API. 04:28:52 My minds already blown 04:29:15 SICP was already over my head to begin with. 04:29:44 rmathews [n=rm@61.247.251.10] has joined #scheme 04:29:51 I was hoping for something that would spoon feed me 04:30:17 Seeing as how even this universty entry level book is too much for me 04:30:26 synx: what's up with you cats hating on SICP as an introductory text? 04:30:41 Hmm... 04:30:43 I kind of learned programming by trial and error, but I'm sure there are some fun and nice ways to get started. 04:30:44 rocketman: seconded 04:31:02 Hi, my DrScheme installation on Windows (Vista) stopped working, I reinstalled it (seemed faster than finding a solution), but it's still there ... it starts up and goes into this "Standard Output" window with this message: http://scheme.pastebin.com/m23c180be 04:31:06 I don't hate SICP, It's that the reading level is above mine 04:31:27 klutometis: Just because a book starts out with no assumptions doesn't mean it's good for beginners! 04:31:32 Any idea on how to fix this? Or on what data it is leaving behind to make this problem occur even after re-installing? 04:31:52 you could try Little Schemer: A is for Assoclist, B is for bang!, C is for Cons 04:32:15 (I'm not really recommending that book) 04:32:51 "Computational processes are abstract beings that inhabit computers." sentence #2 and SICP is already in lala land. 04:33:03 I think one problem is people are used to reading sci-fi -- where you turn the pages at a steady rate 04:33:44 so they feel like "Oh this is too hard" if they take an hour to read one page of a textbook, even though that's the normal rate 04:34:04 It's not that it's taking too long 04:34:45 It's just a university entry level book 04:34:58 I don't really think it's the time it takes to view SICP. It's that it gets into really really weird and not very comfortable notions early on. I mean two sentences in and it's already assuming that computer programs are equivalent to beings like you and I> 04:35:00 And I'm not really exactly too familiar with all these words 04:35:00 I. 04:37:55 Alright, I 04:38:14 I'm done for the night, I'l see you. 04:38:20 synx: I don't see how you make the jump from "We are about to study the idea of a computational process. Computational processes are abstract beings that inhabit computers." to "computer programs are sentient beings" 04:38:22 guys later 04:38:30 later 04:38:36 rmathews: that message looks familiar. Check the PLT Scheme mailing list; there may have been a discussion about it 04:40:23 I didn't specify sentient, ToxicFrog. 04:40:32 Considering them beings at all is a bit of a stretch. 04:40:33 You said "equivalent to beings like you and I" 04:40:40 And while I don't know if you're sentient, I'm pretty sure I am 04:40:57 I don't really know either... 04:41:13 offby1: alright, thanks 04:42:16 But putting that aside, I would call processes processes. Like baking a cake or writing a novel. They're things to do, not little barely intelligent byte elves floating in our cpus. 04:42:43 You seem to have an irrational hatred of SICP based entirely on one turn of phrase you don't like in the first paragraph. 04:42:46 synx: what is that earlier comment suppose to mean? enforcing your ignorant behavior, or have you just been locked up a bit too long? 04:42:52 My point is that the SICP has already, after two sentences, completely derailed my thought process. And I think it would do the same for most other people too. 04:43:12 Personally, I found it both informative and fun to read 04:43:23 Which is a damn sight better than most textbooks manage 04:44:13 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 04:44:16 Oh that's just one example. I found SICP somewhat useful, especially in the way it separates the meaning of a program from the mechanism behind it. I just wouldn't recommend it for beginners. 04:45:00 jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.235] has joined #scheme 04:45:11 hi 04:45:32 is it just me or does the SICP book seem a little bit... dense? 04:46:02 dense as in packed with info, or stupid? 04:46:11 leppie, the former 04:46:20 i have trouble with the mathematics 04:46:33 do you have a complaint? :) 04:46:34 I dunno, it's available online so surely that can't weigh all too much. 04:46:34 synx: SICP requires its readers to have the capacity to comprehend Standard American English written in a precise, clear manner that introduces some level of wit and dry humor in a subtle manner. However, I suspect that anyone who wishes to program ought to bring themselves to this level of English competency as a prerequesite to programming or at least, a parallel requirement or goal thereof. 04:46:35 It's definitely the former, and we're having a bit of an argument about the latter right now~ 04:46:49 i've been teaching myself from the book and the video lectures, but i got lost at the derivatives 04:46:59 jengle: It is concise, and doesn't waste words or time. 04:47:35 jengle: It helps there to not try to understand the mathematics, but just think of the process they describe. 04:47:58 arcfide: The very notion that English could be described as any sort of standard is exactly the attitude that prompts people to recommend SICP to poor unwitting newbies! 04:48:18 \o/ derivatives! 04:48:45 /o\ integrals? 04:48:48 What then, synx, do you suggest as a proper view of the English language? 04:48:52 leppie: yeah, pretty much 04:48:57 unfortunately i've only studied "up to" trig 04:49:14 i'm also trying to teach myself calculus so i can better under SICP 04:49:27 synx: I reject utterly the argument that a book should be disregarded because some people lack a basic level of reading comprehension. The solution is to improve literacy education, not throw out the book. 04:49:34 jengle: When I went through SICP, I found that I didn't need much math at all to go through it. However, it uses some Mathy terms, which would require some research, at least, if one did not understand them. 04:49:35 synx, arcfide: Take it to #NLP, please. :-P 04:49:43 #nlp ? 04:49:46 I tend to view the English language as a seriously sketchy approximation. Been trying to learn other languages just so I can describe myself clearly. 04:49:53 ToxicFrog: Natural Language Processing 04:50:05 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 04:50:14 Aah 04:50:45 ToxicFrog: Yes, I do too! That's a silly reason to reject a book. That said, SICP is bad for newbies. :| 04:50:56 Trying to define "Standard" American English is... a tarpit. 04:51:10 is there any sort of SICP companion book? 04:51:16 god I wouldn't even try to process English. That's a work cut out for geniuses greater than I. 04:51:21 jengle: There are additional resources at the SICP website. 04:51:41 HtDP was not bad. 04:52:13 It was the textbook for a course, though, so I have no idea how it is standalone. 04:52:13 synx: The only argument I have heard that really attacks SICP as an introductory text is that it encourages cleverness over clarity. 04:52:45 TimMc: HtDP is not bad for programmers, or for people who are just starting out? I tried it long back, and seemed a lil slow ... yet lots of smart people recommend the book ... 04:52:54 synx: Sorry, I meant to say, the only argument I can see as a valid concern that I have heard. 04:53:51 rmathews: Slow isn't bad, for standalone. You can always skim the boring bits. 04:54:00 arcfide, thanks. 04:54:26 I think HtDP tries to explicitly expose the thought process that occurs when programming properly, which makes it fairly methodical. 04:55:08 Alright. 04:55:16 Someone reading SICP without a good base of programming, mathematics, philosophy, and linguistics, has a good chance of becoming a raving scheme fanatic without knowing what the heck they're talking about. 04:55:40 I transferred into Northeastern University as a junior, and I already know how to program in a couple languages, but I still had to take the introductory course, which uses Scheme (CS211). 04:55:42 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #scheme 04:56:22 It happened to a friend of mine back in high school. Just overrided his mental defenses, reprogrammed his brain entirely. He wouldn't program anything else, but couldn't explain why. 04:56:24 I expected to be bored, but the course was great. HtDP was a good textbook. 04:56:39 *synx* tsks 04:57:09 synx: Only if they try to read SICP like a "How to program H4x0r in fixnum days" book. 04:57:58 And the highly acclaimed "How to hack hotmail in fixnum days" 04:58:11 synx: you're talking with a false humanist ennui; sicp's pseudo-anthropomorphism is charming and poetic: especially when they wax on amb 04:58:36 klutometis: I wasn't so fond of their waxing on amb -- I slipped and nearly broke my back 04:58:44 that amb surface is pretty slick 04:58:45 offby1: hah! 04:58:47 synx: Isn't the point of an intro text book to reprogram the mind to be able to think about problems in a coherent manner? 04:59:10 Ah klutometis so you admit SICP is anti-humanist 04:59:18 TimMc: thanks 04:59:23 synx: no; i think you're a false humanist ;) 04:59:32 *arcfide* is anti-humanist. 04:59:35 arcfide: I have serious reservations about that. But I can't say it's not true. 05:00:08 Maybe it is safe to say that SICP isn't necessarily a safe, status quo type of book? 05:00:57 It is possible to hurt yourself with it, but that doesn't make it a bad Introductory textbook. 05:01:01 Especially when used as a club. 05:01:10 *arcfide* can attest to SICP's effectiveness as a club. 05:01:16 Or a hammer. 05:01:34 Or as a wonderfully effective flat sort of knockout rock. 05:02:02 o.O 05:03:21 i think the tide-turning anti-sicp resentment of late is superstitious 05:03:30 it's also communicable, apparently 05:03:38 there are very few advocates of sicp left in here 05:03:51 synx: as far as fixating on one language goes - I did the same thing. I think most people do, especially with the first language they're comfortable in. There's a reluctance to move outside that comfort zone. 05:04:15 Eventually, you get over it, admit that your currently-favorite language is neither the be all and end or of programming, nor the right tool for every job, and learn other languages. 05:04:54 If he hadn't read SICP, I suspect he would have done the same thing eventually anyways, just with Python, or Ruby, or C, or what have you. 05:05:20 I cut my teeth on TI-89 Basic (yes, my graphing calculator), then learned Java. This was about a decade ago. 05:05:46 Java was definitely my "reference language" for about 6 years. 05:07:58 I recall gnawing on my TI-59, but thankfully I never damaged my teeth 05:08:27 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:08:33 -!- jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.235] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:09:44 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:09:45 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 05:10:15 ToxicFrog: Much of what I say is in jest, but I do tend to try to get people learning by application. It's just the way I learned it, don't know how else to do it. 05:10:29 QBASIC, ah, how I remember thee. Thy stack overfloweth with the fewest of calls. 05:10:53 TimMc: the TI-83+ is what kept me from going insane in high school 05:11:03 Looking back on it now, I must have been really bored to put up with that interface 05:12:32 ToxicFrog: The TI-89 has higher resolution, symbolic integration, more memory... 05:12:57 I made minesweeper, of course. 05:13:16 Also, a mandelbrot generator that took 4 hours. :-/ 05:14:14 TimMc: yeah, we never had any of those 05:14:23 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-vrsgdajwcdnzzyaf] has joined #scheme 05:14:48 I made an image storage program (to get around the hardcoded limit on number of images you could store), an animated sin and cos demo, and a roguelike 05:14:53 Although it was a very simple roguelike 05:19:19 I once programmed a TI-85 calculator to automatically figure out redox reactions. That chemistry test I was on easy street. <3 05:22:34 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 05:25:16 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit] 05:27:16 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 05:28:55 -!- bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:37:54 mlak [i=4c70bb42@gateway/web/freenode/session] has joined #scheme 05:39:39 -!- mlak [i=4c70bb42@gateway/web/freenode/session] has left #scheme 05:43:22 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:44:13 Yes! It works! Hahaha. *evil grin* 05:55:32 wahjava [n=abbe@opennic/abbe] has joined #scheme 05:55:32 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:55:36 -!- wahjava is now known as abbe 06:03:29 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Success] 06:07:11 underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:07:30 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 06:07:38 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 06:11:34 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.50.230.208] has left #scheme 06:13:08 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 06:14:26 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [] 06:19:39 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 06:22:35 underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:29:46 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit ["leaving"] 06:30:09 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 06:31:06 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-172-237.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:44:49 Does any Scheme have a native X11 interface? 06:46:41 ecraven: I know PLT Scheme comes with a GUI library, at least... 06:47:04 What do you mean by "native X11"? Any toolkit that can talk to X? Athena specifically? Or raw X protocol? 06:47:26 An X protocol implementation in Scheme (not via xlib or xcb) 06:48:03 Aaah 06:48:07 No idea, sorry. 06:50:12 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 06:55:31 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:56:09 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 07:05:41 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 07:13:01 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 07:14:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 07:15:54 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:16:12 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:20:33 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:21:59 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:22:28 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 07:24:37 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:25:17 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 07:31:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:31:41 ecraven: There is a library with X11 bindings in PLT. (Unrelatred to the gui.) 07:32:58 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:15 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:41:28 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:46:21 underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:49:52 eli: That one? http://planet.plt-scheme.org/package-source/kazzmir/x11.plt/2/0/x11.ss This seems to go via C. 07:50:53 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:51:17 ecraven: Yes, that one. If by "protocol" you mean the network protocol, then it's not it. If you mean the X libraries then it is. 07:52:54 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 07:58:14 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 08:07:50 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-235.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:13:33 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@81-174-48-147.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #scheme 08:13:44 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-215-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:15:02 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-24-171.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 08:17:13 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 08:19:03 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:19:47 -!- ToxicFrog [n=ben@76-10-167-236.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:21:01 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 08:26:23 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 08:28:17 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:30:35 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 08:33:27 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 08:36:14 -!- rocketman [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:39:19 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:40:21 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:41:30 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has joined #scheme 09:11:23 brx [n=brx@erxz.com] has joined #scheme 09:11:23 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-107-34.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 09:11:25 hey guys. 09:12:35 is it possible that today is one of the plt devs birthday and the corresponding drscheme birthday easter egg is causing a runtime error in plt scheme version 4.2? 09:13:25 mngbd [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 09:14:08 In a scheme system, we have pair? and string? and vector? and... 09:14:39 Wouldn't it be fine to have a function type, that returns a "type number" to be used as index into an array? And faster? 09:15:28 read: a function `type', not: a `function type' 09:16:39 fnord123_ [n=fnord123@78-105-27-133.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:18:45 rocketman [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:18:56 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@94-195-126-216.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:19:11 -!- rocketman is now known as soupdragon 09:24:01 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.64.194] has quit [] 09:26:45 fnord123 [n=fnord123@94-195-126-216.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:29:55 ah, happy birthday eli. 09:30:10 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:31:35 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-107-34.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:18 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:37:03 -!- fnord123_ [n=fnord123@78-105-27-133.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:17 -!- mngbd [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has 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quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:20:29 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:20:34 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 10:22:56 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@81-174-48-147.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [] 10:25:17 cracki [n=cracki@134.130.183.101] has joined #scheme 10:33:15 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:42:30 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:43:04 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 10:44:13 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 10:59:51 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [] 11:04:12 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:04:56 fnord123_ [n=fnord123@78-105-27-133.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:09:57 fnord1231 [n=fnord123@94-195-126-216.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 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[n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has joined #scheme 12:06:36 MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@89.146.179.217] has joined #scheme 12:09:10 -!- rmathews [n=rm@61.247.251.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:09:10 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:16:12 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-72-87-212-60.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:16:25 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 12:20:30 underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 12:21:19 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 12:32:27 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:32:54 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 12:38:57 HG` [n=wells@xdslej241.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 12:42:03 argible [n=argible@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:54:52 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 12:55:28 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:56:08 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 12:58:31 ecraven: there is also scx but i uses C, too. 12:58:53 s/i/it/ 12:59:07 incubot: curse the typos! 12:59:11 (Whereas "pianos", "armadillos", "zeros" and "typos" are not as ugly) 13:00:00 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-111-124.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:06:39 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-100-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 13:08:04 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:13:58 dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet04.porta.net] has joined #scheme 13:17:06 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-18-33.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 13:18:41 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-29-239.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:18:56 paxcoder [n=paxcoder@unaffiliated/paxcoder] has joined #scheme 13:20:22 -!- argible [n=argible@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:21:22 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 13:24:09 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 13:30:11 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:30:16 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 13:33:59 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-13-4.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 13:34:48 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 13:35:17 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:35:37 plt 4.2.1 is out. http://download.plt-scheme.org/ 13:38:04 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 13:39:12 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:39:50 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:44:18 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 13:44:23 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:48:23 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 13:49:48 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 13:52:00 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-18-33.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:21 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:12:33 Adamant [n=Adamant@66.213.192.210] has joined #scheme 14:21:32 sleepydog [n=root@64-252-139-167.adsl.snet.net] has joined #scheme 14:22:18 Is there a scheme analog to the common lisp 'prog1' ie a (begin ...) block that returns its first statement rather than its last? 14:22:43 some schemes have begin0 14:23:00 if not, you can implement it very quickly in syntax-rules 14:23:10 do you want to still evaluate every expression? 14:23:38 yes 14:24:21 ((lambda (a . rest) a) ex ...) 14:25:23 ah, that works fine 14:26:52 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet04.porta.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:27:08 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #scheme 14:27:11 now just rewrite it into a macro, like neilv suggested, and you are all set :) BTW doing a macro would allow you to optimize it a bit better 14:27:24 dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet04.porta.net] has joined #scheme 14:27:53 into soemthing like (let ((a ex1)) ex2 ... a) 14:29:35 done and done. Thanks for the help! 14:29:41 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:30:03 Hi. I'm starting Scheme and have a few questions. 14:30:10 What I want to achieve is write a very basic function that takes a string as input and modifies it (replace ie all the "&" chars with "&", all ">" with ">", etc.). 14:30:46 kib2: there are several reasonable ways to do that 14:30:48 with whatever scripting language, the task is really easy, but not here for me. 14:30:58 kib2: which scheme are you using? 14:31:02 neilv: PLT 14:31:15 neilv: i don't want a solution, 14:31:20 just advices 14:31:26 all reasonable schemes have regex included. 14:31:30 i think plt has a regexp replacement procedure 14:31:38 which is how you'd do it in most post-perl languages 14:31:39 sladegen: that's one of my problem 14:31:55 I've used regexps for such a simple thing. 14:32:11 kib2: well, look in your scheme's documentation. 14:32:34 http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/html/reference/regexp.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._regexp-replace)) 14:32:39 I had a look at srfi/13 for string-replace, but it takes indexes as parameters 14:33:06 i just went to the plt help desk, typed "regexp-replace" (my first guess), and this was the first search hit 14:33:48 i don't actually think that regexps are the best way to do this. i do it a different way 14:34:06 neilv: that's my approach, and i really don't like it: http://paste.lisp.org/display/84439 14:34:17 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-64-222-181-252.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 14:34:44 ie what if i have 250 chars to replace ? 14:35:15 pray :p 14:35:24 So i suppose I need something like a hashtable and iterate over keys/values. 14:35:27 leppie: :) 14:36:22 kib2: you simply using string-for-each , and match the character, and write a possible replacement to a string port, when done, extract the strng from the port 14:37:00 kib2: how i've done this function before is to iteratively match the next character that needs escaping, write to a string port, then do another regexp match from the end index of the last one 14:37:45 ok, i'll try that, thanks! 14:38:02 do you believe it's doable without using regexps ? 14:38:11 definitely 14:38:29 ttp://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-13/srfi-13.html#string-replace seems to me unusable, because it works on indexes. 14:38:31 open a string port on the input string, read one character at a time... 14:38:33 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-100-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [] 14:38:52 neilv: right. 14:39:11 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 14:39:48 leppie: It is said that IronScheme runs on Mono, but how exactly (I don't know C#) ? 14:39:56 argg, no channel! http://paste.lisp.org/display/84439#1 14:40:32 kib2, mono is also a CLR 14:40:38 just a a JVM 14:40:45 just like a JVM 14:41:12 oh btw, I didnt test that paste, kib2, but you should get the idea 14:41:18 ok, that means I only have run an exe ? 14:41:28 yes kib2 :) 14:41:44 leppie: without conflicts with ie Wine ? 14:42:18 I have no support for compiling the C# bits with Mono, but it does bootstrap my scheme library without too much hassle (just very slow) 14:42:39 also my bootfile, breaks Mono's AOT compiler :( 14:43:10 weird 14:43:10 All the code used in IronScheme is pure verifiable managed code 14:43:40 about 50% C# (but that includes a fair bit of generated code), and the rest Scheme going on lines of code 14:43:59 I dont use pointers or any other funny tricks 14:44:05 leppie: it works. I just have to type "mono IronScheme.Console.exe" 14:44:25 yeah, but beware, it will fail on tail calls 14:44:47 try the classic odd?/even? example to see 14:45:10 any number bugger than 100k should cause a stackoverflow 14:45:16 bigger rather :) 14:45:26 leppie: don't get me wrong, but that's really problematic for a Scheme interpreter. 14:45:59 no, that's really problematic for Mono, not me 14:46:03 :) 14:46:04 how can I write a loop without tail calls ? 14:46:39 I optimize some loops into something like while (true) { ... }, so that will help on Mono 14:46:52 but not on mutual recursion 14:47:18 I think most of the R6RS tests pass on Mono, last time I checked 14:47:41 only about 30 fails of an odd 9000 vs the 6 I have using .NET on Windows 14:48:58 not bad! :) 14:49:29 but that does not cover some things, like proper tail recursion :( 14:49:43 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 14:49:55 i should try an see if my little webserver will run on Mono 14:50:27 leppie: yeah; Clojure seems to have the same problem (i think so, maybe i'm wrong). 14:50:54 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:50:54 let me repeat, I dont have a problem, Mono does, it works perfect using MS's CLR 14:51:05 it's part of the spec, and they should make it work 14:51:22 while it's broken, F# cant even run properly on Mono 14:51:23 yes; Mono team as a lot of work. 14:51:35 like bashing bug reports.... 14:52:27 for years, they didnt bother to fix double.TryParse not to throw an exception, then they silently fixed it, my bug report disappeared, etc 14:53:58 Without commercial support, it's understandable: a small team can't fight MS ones. 14:54:14 What do you mean without commercial support? 14:54:32 isnt migeul the VP of Novell now? 14:55:03 I really don't know. 14:56:37 i'm not saying Mono is bad, it's not, it is just that have had bugs lying around for ages. You cannot say that with MS, there are barely any bugs 14:57:22 but then again, I guess you need a lot of commercial support to employ a decent test team 14:58:05 maybe I should go visit #mono 14:58:55 reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-55-208.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:59:17 for sure! 15:00:01 *leppie* trying to install virtualbox 3 again, stupid thing just fails installation every time... :( 15:00:19 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.64.194] has joined #scheme 15:00:23 as you can guess, it was 'unexpected' and there is no error message 15:01:19 sladegen pasted "horrible r5rs compliant and horribly inefficient "regex" example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/84442 15:02:14 lolcow [n=lolcow@196-210-146-211-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:02:36 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:02:37 sladegen: thanks. 15:02:39 /die leppie 15:03:01 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-211-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:04:21 lolcow: ? 15:04:38 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 15:04:43 Heh :-) 15:05:10 *leppie* waits for sladegen's gay comment 15:05:21 "gay comment" 15:05:32 yes, that was wordplay :) 15:06:02 lolkittie would be more approriate ;) 15:06:54 i once had to chose an alternative nick, and that the firstthing that came up 15:07:22 got stuck somehow in my name prefix 15:07:50 btw virtualbox 3 now installed! yay 15:07:58 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:18:55 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:57 lolcow [n=lolcow@196-210-146-211-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:22:57 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-211-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:04 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 15:23:09 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-104-213.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 15:24:58 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 15:25:14 -!- abbe [n=abbe@opennic/abbe] has quit [] 15:25:52 abbe [n=abbe@122.161.88.71] has joined #scheme 15:25:57 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-148-131.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:26:11 -!- abbe is now known as Guest81710 15:26:17 -!- Guest81710 [n=abbe@122.161.88.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:43 abbe_ [n=abbe@abbe.is.a.member.of.pirateparty.in] has joined #scheme 15:26:59 -!- abbe_ is now known as abbe 15:27:06 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 15:33:49 -!- tabe [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:33:49 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:33:54 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 15:35:29 -!- fnord1231 [n=fnord123@94-195-126-216.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:39:16 tabe [n=user@adel.fixedpoint.jp] has joined #scheme 15:40:47 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 15:47:42 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:56 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:51:11 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:52:28 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:44 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 16:03:41 -!- gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 16:04:48 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:04:51 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 16:08:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:42 I want to take a source tarball and use the files in that if they haven't been modified from the latest version in the repository. I wonder why that's so difficult to do... 16:13:07 Getting a big repository over subversion say, and svn crashes. All you can do is delete everything and start over. There's no reliable way to recover even one bit of what you downloaded. 16:13:59 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:14:19 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:14:40 I dunno, maybe rsync has me spoiled. 16:15:12 svn sucks, news at 11? 16:15:14 use darcs :) 16:17:24 haha tell that to the plt developers 16:18:40 everyone knows the best is Tom Lord's Archive manager :| 16:18:57 -!- schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:34 I usually use git myself. I'd use monotone, but it gets freakin' huge. 16:27:15 -!- reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-55-208.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:27:28 The monotone database for pidgin is getting up to 277 megabytes by now. 16:36:05 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:36:32 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:37:52 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:43:26 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-104-213.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [] 16:45:01 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 16:45:58 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47:53 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-jybiubcxlfmmgrsz] has joined #scheme 16:50:31 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:30 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:20 dang... I can't seem to get plt's repository. The server just dies halfway through sending it over. 17:05:23 -!- Toast [n=Toast@69.9.124.161] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:06:02 that http 413 error? 17:11:22 -!- paxcoder [n=paxcoder@unaffiliated/paxcoder] has left #scheme 17:20:17 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-13-4.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:22:06 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:26:56 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:33:39 I dunno, svn just said Error retrieving REPORT (111): Connection refused 17:34:08 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:41:18 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:20 nothingHappens_ [n=nothingh@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 17:41:44 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:42:17 -!- nothingHappens [n=nothingH@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:44:01 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 17:47:22 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 17:48:19 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 17:50:58 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-10-163.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 17:51:10 synx: I've had that happen a few times myself. I tried to "git svn clone" it once, and it kept failing 17:55:06 athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 17:55:23 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:55:34 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has left #scheme 17:56:32 -!- abbe [n=abbe@abbe.is.a.member.of.pirateparty.in] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:00:05 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:01:32 -!- athos is now known as Porthos 18:02:40 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 18:03:38 -!- Porthos is now known as athos 18:04:18 I don't want to be a bandwidth hog, but... 18:05:37 -!- refusenik [n=DFowler@ip-66-9-231-226.autorev.intellispace.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:13:31 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 18:14:20 refusenik [n=DFowler@ip-66-9-231-226.autorev.intellispace.net] has joined #scheme 18:15:19 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 18:16:53 synx: You're leaving us hanging, here! 18:17:40 but I wanted to get the plt svn :> 18:18:16 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:19:24 incubot: Error 0: Connection confused 18:19:27 I'm so confused. 18:21:48 incubot: incutest 18:21:55 Hah. 18:22:20 incubot: (set! confused #f) 18:22:20 # 18:22:49 incubot: confused 18:22:52 That question is so confused I'm not sure where to begin 18:23:05 incubot: (begin confused) 18:23:06 Error: unbound variable: confused 18:23:18 incubot: bah 18:25:01 incubot: error! 18:25:04 eval:1:27: compile: bad syntax; function application is not allowed, because no #%app syntax transformer is bound in: (syntax-rules () ((_ (name x ...) body ...) (begin (define (name x ...) body ...) (set! commands (cons (cons (quote name) name) commands))))) 18:25:51 oops :p 18:26:01 whoa! 18:26:20 incubot: another error! 18:26:23 Error: undefined variable 'false'. 18:26:29 LOL 18:26:37 *leppie* feels evil :p 18:26:59 rudybot: eval error! 18:27:03 For a minute there I thought incubot was actually trying to run those. 18:27:30 rudybot: eval  error! 18:28:30 rudybot_: eval  error! 18:28:30 leppie: error: reference to undefined identifier: error! 18:28:41 rudybot_: eval error! 18:28:42 leppie: eh? Try "rudybot_: help". 18:28:56 rudybot_ is a bit more sane :p 18:29:07 TimMc: it was running something 18:29:10 rudybot_: Who are you and what have you done with rudybot? 18:29:10 TimMc: eh? Try "rudybot_: help". 18:29:17 incubot: error! 18:29:24 In any case, the original problem in (null? l (+ 1 ...)) is obvious, but the error message is different for different people. 18:29:30 hmmm not so 18:29:31 leppie: No, incubot was just repeating stuff. 18:29:51 incubot: another error! 18:29:52 incubot: compile 18:29:55 What is the error message you get? 18:29:57 I can also compile it for you with any prefix you want, and give you a tarball ready to run make install in... 18:30:08 dang, I was fooled :p 18:30:28 leppie: It won't run anything that doesn't match /.*\(.*\).*/ 18:30:51 incubot: ( ) 18:30:52 Error: unbound variable: | | 18:31:06 right :) 18:31:12 incubot: (_!_) 18:31:12 Error: unbound variable: _!_ 18:31:23 incubot: You'll try :-( to evaluate anything with parens, yeah? :-) 18:31:23 Error: unbound variable: You 18:31:34 Obscene! 18:31:42 incubot: sup? 18:31:51 But only if there is at least one opening paren followed eventually by some closing paren. 18:32:00 incubot: (.Y.) 18:32:01 Error: unbound variable: .Y. 18:32:18 incubot: fopen("/dev/random") 18:32:18 Error: unbound variable: fopen 18:32:25 incubot: o_0 18:32:41 incubot: car("/dev/random") 18:32:41 Error: call of non-procedure: "/dev/random" 18:32:50 incubot: car(cons) 18:32:50 Error: bad argument count - received 0 but expected 2: # 18:32:56 incubot: car(cons 1 2) 18:32:56 (1 . 2) 18:33:11 incubot: 1 2 3 '() 4 5 18:33:11 5 18:33:19 Is incubot a chicken bot? 18:33:27 yes 18:33:31 leppie: `car(cons 1 2)` is `(begin car (cons 1 2)) 18:33:32 ` 18:33:48 Who's incubot's author? 18:34:00 klutometis 18:34:02 incubot: who's your father? 18:34:02 mario-goulart: klutometis, I believe 18:34:05 It's halfway between New Rochelle and Phila -- where my father's and mother's families, respectively, are from. 18:34:14 incubot: Who's your daddy? 18:34:17 the grand-daddy is SICP 18:34:20 ! 18:34:33 Well then. 18:34:41 TimMc: or values 18:34:59 leppie: But it only returns the last value. 18:35:16 incubot: (values 1 2 3 4) 18:35:16 1 18:35:31 incubot: liar! 18:35:34 Liar! 18:35:41 >_< 18:35:44 I meant, a REPL could do either 18:35:51 incubot: pants on fire! 18:35:54 As for clothes, bah. They're inconvenient at best. Houses and apartments make fine substitutes for pants. Much more pocket space, too. 18:38:08 incubot: what's your chicken? 18:38:12 I think many of the people voting yes confused "General purpose language" with "Special purpose language that does what I want" 18:38:59 incubot: what's your opinion about r6rs? 18:39:02 if it's a class my opinion on that doesn't matter 18:39:22 incubot: how many eggs do you use? 18:39:25 there are types like number? which is a unification of many types. 18:39:47 incubot: I am a walrus. 18:39:50 Walrus: "Call the police!" 18:40:07 seb- [n=seb@li30-51.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 18:40:51 incubot: what does ##sys#call-with-cthulhu mean to you? 18:40:54 What I really mean isn't as complicated as I might have made it sound. I just mean something like CPAN. 18:41:45 incubot: call-with-current-elder-god 18:41:47 elder value. 18:42:12 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-149.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 18:45:02 incubot: do you use the sandbox egg? 18:45:02 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:45:05 Error: (sandbox.scm, line 148) unbound variable: call/cc 18:45:20 incubot: unbound 18:45:23 Error: unbound variable: <> 18:45:26 incubot: unbound 18:45:29 I'm getting an "unbound variable: super" from Chicken 18:45:31 incubot: Is this as boring to you as it is to me? 18:45:34 I'm doing the same with SICP now. Although I don't find the early stuff boring! 18:45:53 minion: Is this as boring to you as it is to me? 18:45:54 chandler: yes 18:46:29 incubot: do you know Felix? 18:46:32 the only PLT site I know of is plt-scheme.org itself, naturally. 18:46:43 pretty close. :-) 18:46:46 hahahaha 18:46:51 Heh. minion now speaks with the voice of the 456 in my mind. 18:46:55 incubot: Cheeky bastard ;) 18:46:58 cheating bastard 18:47:03 heh! 18:47:34 Hey I had an interesting idea the other day. 18:48:01 I can take any code that produces side effects, and make it so it does not contain side effects. 18:48:17 cat '' > code.scm? 18:48:26 Eh, echo '' > code.scm 18:48:47 writing to code.scm would be a side effect. 18:48:48 synx: I can write a macro for that. 18:48:50 sjamaan: nice 18:49:18 What I do is I write a procedure that takes a computer as an argument, and a procedure that would run side effects. Then I use that computer to run the procedure, returning the computer and the procedure as a result. No side effects. 18:49:25 sjamaan: > code.scm 18:49:34 does "defun" define symbols for both lambda functions AND variables? 18:50:00 You'll have to tell me what `defun' is, seb-. 18:50:02 seb-: defun? 18:50:04 incubot: it's turtles all the way down 18:50:07 annotated #12909 with "turtles all the way down" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/12909#1 18:50:11 :) 18:50:45 seb-: defun is something about Common Lisp, not any scheme particularly. 18:51:10 defun is something that makes things unfun, right? 18:51:17 synx: Your side-effect-less system will be interesting when it comes to networking calls. :-) 18:51:57 TimMc: obviously then you would have to pass the network as an additional argument. 18:52:12 Obviously. 18:52:31 return the network with communications done, and boom no side effects. 18:53:51 Congratulations; you've invented monads. 18:53:56 seb-: use `define'. Define defines symbols for both lambda functions and variables. 18:54:00 i was thinking the same chandler 18:54:16 me too me too 18:54:25 I still doubt whether monads exist at all. 18:54:31 or he just discovered pot 18:54:37 ... ah, the latter 18:54:57 side-effects of a different kind :p 18:55:07 leppie: Dammit, you beat me to it! 18:55:16 synx: start adding ", man" to your sentences, for full effect 18:55:37 like the stack pointer is static, and all the code moves around it 18:55:45 obviously you would have to pass the network as an additional argument, man 18:55:57 well, that's like, just your opinion, man 18:56:07 incubot: are you turing-complete? 18:56:10 i think it can't represent specific functions and thats why it isn't turing complete 18:56:24 incubot: How was your Turing test this morning? 18:56:27 it is, it's just a weird syntax for turing machines 18:56:28 the 'dude, ' prefix works suplementary too 18:56:53 mario-goulart: no, but he is rooted in NCOMPLR 18:57:08 incubot: is it possible to define define defining only the basic definition? 18:57:11 Defining a portable macroexpand-on-syntax-objects-given-an-environment function is one thing 18:57:13 seriously though the nearest I can figure, monads are carriers of side effects, sort of cheap substitutes to the real thing. 18:57:23 , man 18:57:38 synx: That's as far as I've gotten, too. Man. 18:57:59 ed, man 18:58:01 monads have no side effects, that's how far I got :p 18:58:22 synx: I thought they just pretend to be that. The side effects really happen, but the monads try hard to pretend they don't :) 18:58:32 incubot: have you ver tried monads with cookies? 18:58:35 At least for me. Streams, Amb, Riastradh's talk about Monads, and this thesis 18:58:54 You can't pass the entire Internet as an argument to your function, so you just pass a thing that knows about the Internet. When you do a network operation, you get a new thing pointing to the same Internet, but obviously said Internet has been changed. So old thing:old Internet, new thing:new Internet 18:59:24 I dispute the first sentence of your assertion, synx. 18:59:35 man 18:59:48 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:59:55 What puzzles me though, is anyone using the original monad would be disappointed to find out they couldn't reverse time and un-send their email. Not sure how that would work. Probably just means you can't use such a monad more than once. 19:00:15 thank you, leppie 19:00:29 pleasure man 19:00:30 But then wouldn't that mean using the monad changes it into something unusable, ala a side effect? 19:00:33 , man 19:00:48 dude... 19:01:07 a monad pretends to have side effects, from what I can see 19:01:10 synx, consider the action of sending an email. It has an effect (someone's mailbox changed) and perhaps a value (the status code from the SMTP server, say). 19:01:12 dude! 19:01:21 *mario-goulart* defines a `do-monad!' 19:01:26 state is never changed, but you can request the next one 19:01:53 so it clones itself into another state 19:01:56 *zbigniew* defines a `dude-mon!' 19:02:06 OK Riastradh 19:02:08 synx, now consider a first-class object representing this action, and a set of similar such actions, on which you have a couple of operations: a way to make an action that has no effects but has a particular value, and a way to compose two actions in sequence `associatively'. 19:02:20 *mario-goulart* defines a `monad-set!' 19:02:24 leppie: well if you pretend to send an email, it's awfully hard for me to read it! 19:02:55 synx: Then pretend-read it! 19:03:02 Since these are first-class objects, they can be passed to and returned from procedures without causing effects. 19:03:07 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-vrsgdajwcdnzzyaf] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 19:03:15 synx: move on to mushrooms. 19:03:22 Riastradh: oh, so in effect you're generating a program as you work with subsequent modifications of this monad? And once you're done the monad program can do all the side effect-y stuff? 19:03:42 (lambda () (set! thing 42)) has no side effects f/i 19:03:50 synx, I don't know what `subsequent modifications of this monad' means, but yes, you are generating a `program', or an action. 19:03:58 Does "define" let you define labels for functions as well as variables (integers, strings, etc.)? 19:04:05 i'm a newb so don't laugh 19:04:11 yes seb- 19:04:16 thanksw 19:04:22 seb-: Scheme is a Lisp-1, yes 19:04:33 -!- ponzao___ [n=vesam@a243-120.24online.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:40 seb-, DEFINE creates a binding associating a name to a variable. A variable can hold any value, including a procedures, numbers, &c. 19:04:47 zbigniew: I doubt a self-proclaimed "newb" knows what a Lisp-1 is :) 19:04:51 I mean like (define (do-something monad) (cons (lambda () (set! other-thing 23)) monad)) produces a modified um... monad. 19:05:13 sjamaan: i figure the 'yes' was answer enough 19:05:20 :) 19:05:30 no, synx, that looks like normal side-effects to me :) 19:05:52 synx, the term is `action'. A *monad* is a set of actions, together with some operations on actions. There are several choices of the particular operations, but the most popular one is (1) a way to make an action that has a value, but no effects; and (2) a way to extend an action, by composing it with a procedure that will be given the value of the action and that will return another action to execute afterward. 19:06:03 The only thing define can't define is a syntax transformer. And...maybe a label? 19:06:21 leppie: I'm wrapping each side effect in a thunk, so it has no side effects. 19:06:56 (A monad is an algebraic structure, like a group. A group is a set of objects together with an associative binary operation, and an inverse operation, and an identity element.) 19:07:15 synx: i dont really understand it either :) 19:08:20 In Scheme, you might render Haskell's IO monad almost like synx did, exploiting the sequential nature of Scheme. An action in this monad will be a nullary procedure that has side effects and returns a value. The monad operations are 19:08:24 (define (unit value) (lambda () value)) 19:08:38 (define (extend action extender) (lambda () ((extender (action))))) 19:09:03 We can make an action that has the effect of reading an S-expression from an input port, and yields as its value the S-expression, like so: 19:09:19 (define (read-action input-port) (lambda () (read input-port))) 19:09:37 Similarly, we can make an action that has the effect of writing a particular S-expression to an output port, and that yields as its value nothing interesting, like so: 19:09:55 (define (write-action s-expression output-port) (lambda () (write s-expression output-port))) 19:10:15 From this, we can construct an action that reads from an input port and writes what it read to an output port: 19:10:52 (define (echo-action input-port output-port) (extend (read-action input-port) (lambda (s-expression) (write-action s-expression output-port] 19:11:25 You might ask: What's the merit of writing this over just (define (echo input-port output-port) (write (read input-port) output-port))? 19:11:54 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A01E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:12:45 The merit is that every part of the definition of ECHO-ACTION is devoid of side effects. Thus you could take two different applications of ECHO-ACTION to the same arguments, and hoist them to eliminate common subexpressions. 19:12:49 Or you could duplicate a call to ECHO-ACTION. 19:14:08 Every sequential dependency of effects is encoded into the way the monad operations are used, not in the evaluation model of the language. This enables a much more flexible evaluation model, such as Haskell's, or simply much more flexibility in performing local code transformations without global knowledge of the effects in a program. 19:14:38 Sounds like you're just building up a deferred sequence of actions. 19:15:04 Yes, TimMc, that's one thing a monad can do. 19:16:17 It can also do more interesting things with control flow. For example, by explicating each sequential step in your program's control flow, using the EXTEND operation, the monad can try different values at each step, performing a sort of nondeterministic search of the possible values of a computation. 19:16:19 In a memoizing language (is that the right term), I suppose the memo could include info about the monad, so the same operation will be performed for identical calls. 19:16:54 One can realize this with a simple list-based monad, where an action is simply a list of possible values that could have been computed: 19:17:00 (define (unit value) (list value)) 19:17:07 (define (extend-map action extender) (append-map extender action)) 19:17:12 ...um, sorry: 19:17:14 (define (extend action extender) (append-map extender action)) 19:17:49 For this monad, we shall want more ways to construct actions, just as we did with READ-ACTION &c. for the I/O monad above: 19:17:55 (define (either . values) values) 19:18:11 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@89.146.179.217] has joined #scheme 19:18:56 Then, for instance, if one action could yield one of several numbers, we could extend that action by a procedure that squares whatever number it got: 19:19:07 (extend (either 1 2 3) (lambda (number) (unit (* number number)))) 19:19:37 The result of this is an action, or computation, whose value is either 1, 4, or 9. (In this case, it is even represented as a list of those values.) 19:26:03 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:26:36 I'm gonna go back to pretending that monads are just for deferring sequences of actions. 19:26:53 (Until I actually get involved in Haskell.) 19:27:00 synx was trying that network monad again, man :) 19:34:12 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@89.146.179.217] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:34:43 -!- jao [n=jao@21.Red-83-43-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:57 -!- dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [] 19:42:31 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:43:57 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:47:13 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 19:48:21 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 19:51:30 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:52:24 meh, my computer is so broken 19:53:34 reprore [n=reprore@mail.trn.dis.titech.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 19:54:48 incubot: how to fix synx's computer? 19:54:51 I was thinking how it was almost made to be computer animated. 19:55:15 yess animate my computer that's it 19:55:28 I can ride it to Maine 19:55:57 -!- reprore [n=reprore@mail.trn.dis.titech.ac.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:00:10 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslej241.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:20 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:05:59 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:06:45 damn, just can't seem to get plt svn. I have to download the tarball each time. 20:07:53 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:08:30 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:09:06 synx: maybe you should try chicken 20:09:10 *mario-goulart* cheats 20:09:53 Hehe I do try chicken. 20:10:01 :-) 20:10:05 I still don't know how to quite handle modules in chicken though. 20:10:12 Docs on that are kind of sparse... 20:13:38 ah, ok. Chicken 4 (and its modules) is very recent, so things will take some time to be properly documented. Anyway, folks are pretty helpful on the mailing list and on #chicken. 20:14:17 Oh, it's not #chicken-scheme? 20:14:30 no. :-) 20:14:36 #chicken 20:14:47 Is there a #chicken-scheme? 20:14:48 heh, no wonder the channel was empty when I tried it. 20:15:07 *mario-goulart* was afraid he was in the wrong channel 20:15:46 But like in plt it's "In each file a module by the name of the file. To load a module by name, either the source file by that name, or the compiled version if it exists also by that name." 20:16:23 You can have multiple or no modules in a file 20:16:43 I'm not sure how you'd do it in chicken, keep track of files and modules and code and stuff. Especially with compiled code. I can just concatenate all the source stupidly. :p 20:16:55 Only if you use require-library/use it will look for a file by the same name 20:17:30 yeah use/require-library/require-extension/import also kind of confused me 20:17:48 import merely makes identifiers from a module available 20:18:13 (though, come to think of it, it will also cause the module import file to be loaded if it's not there yet) 20:20:37 right... 20:20:45 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet04.porta.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:29 incubot: who came first, chicken or eggs? 20:21:32 ok i am a complete chicken newbie (you guessed didn't you) I don't see a mention of eggs on the http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/ home page - where do eggs live ? :) 20:22:24 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 20:22:45 That's the old page incubot. Update your bookmarks. 20:23:13 chicken.wiki.br 20:23:17 dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet04.porta.net] has joined #scheme 20:23:56 http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/ still is the canonical chicken site. 20:24:10 chicken.wiki.br is the wiki 20:24:58 also "Eggs Unlimited" appears on the homepage 20:25:01 What he ^ said 20:25:08 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 20:25:50 I think the chicken website(s) need a little TLC. There's also callcc.org, a frontend to the wiki that seems out of date 20:26:08 TLC? 20:26:13 Yeah incubot what are you stupid or something? :| 20:26:25 mario: Tender Love and Care :) 20:26:31 :-) 20:26:38 yeah, chicken's web space is a mess 20:26:39 tender loving care 20:27:07 mario-goulart made it somewhat less messy a couple of days ago 20:27:16 The search finally works again! 20:27:49 I must find some way to thank him. I've been using it a lot 20:28:27 Any multiple of million dollars are fine. 20:28:41 :) 20:29:32 mario-goulart: Perhaps .000001? 20:30:02 ooh, he's a smart-ass! 20:30:24 well, considering the amount I'm earning currently, it's something. :-) 20:30:40 haha you walked right into that one 20:33:30 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 20:33:39 That's what you get when you underspecify the rules. :-) 20:36:17 Even if you insist that "multiples 20:36:27 " are always integral... 20:36:32 zero is still an integer. :-/ 20:37:01 that would be underspecification abuse 20:37:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ3Oz5JVKs 20:37:46 -!- brx [n=brx@erxz.com] has left #scheme 20:38:12 TimMc: it's funny, because when you say "multiple times" you don't mean "zero times". 20:38:37 True. 20:38:40 I welcome any donation that is a multiple of one million. 20:39:06 yeah "multiple" is by definition non-zero. 20:39:12 However it could still be negative! 20:39:16 or when you tell your boss "today I fixed multiple vulnerabilities in our bank account system" it doesn't mean you didn't do anything. 20:40:19 fixed, caused, what's a few semantics between friends? 20:42:29 after all, it's just a few 10^6 dollars... 20:42:48 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:45:45 mario-goulart: I'll remember that, thanks 20:46:59 sleepydog: thanks a bunch. :-) 20:49:03 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:49:55 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:51:21 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.50.230.208] has joined #scheme 20:55:18 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:56:08 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 21:01:40 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 21:01:55 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-10-163.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [] 21:04:50 in light of that video i must mumble: but what we mean and what something means are not equivalent..., or are they? 21:09:11 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A01E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 21:14:02 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:34 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:16:08 Can I use EMacs+Quack-mode with MzScheme, and if so how shall i configure it ? 21:16:44 kib2: try C-u M-x run-scheme 21:16:53 i believe it asks you which scheme binary you want 21:17:17 i might be thinking of another scheme-mode, though 21:18:11 You can put (setq scheme-program-name "mzscheme") in .emacs to make it permanent 21:19:15 klutometis: yes, i already made that but once I gave him "mzscheme", it says "mzscheme" is not found. (My PLT install dir is ~/kib/PLT) 21:19:39 sjamaan: thanks for the tip. 21:19:53 Just type in the full path to it then 21:19:56 Or put it in $PATH 21:21:15 sjamaan: ok, let me try... 21:24:11 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:15 incubot: trying is forbiden, we try to minimize failure. 21:24:16 sjamaan: that does not seem to work either. I have added a line "export PATH=/home/kib/PLT/bin:$PATH" inside my .bashrc. It works from a console, but not from within EMacs. 21:24:18 It was in ASM 360, and I could use a move instruction on the whole buffer to make it loop over instead of the forbiden indexed addressing mode. 21:25:49 kib2: Start an Emacs from the same shell, and then it will work. 21:26:03 kib2: launch new terminal export PATH and then start emacs from that terminal. 21:26:19 trying :) 21:26:49 just do it. 21:28:35 there are some progress, but i've got an error now: 21:28:38 current-library-collection-paths: expects argument of type ; given (#) 21:28:38 lib: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: "scheme" in any of: () in: (lib "scheme/init") 21:28:38 standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: "scheme" in any of: () 21:29:22 *sladegen* looks at eli. 21:30:02 kib2: Did you play with setting $PLTCOLLECTS? 21:31:10 eli: i don't. What dir should it link to it ? /home/kib/PLT/lib/plt/collects 21:31:20 maybe ? 21:31:54 kib2: You should not touch PLTCOLLECTS unless you know what you're doing. 21:32:14 kib2: And why did you get that path -- how did you install PLT exactly? 21:33:03 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:07 It looks like you chose the unix-style installation, and provide a path inside your home directory, which is redundant. If you want it in your home directory, just use the default installation method which puts it all in a single directory. 21:35:38 eli: i've just followed the instructions (2 lines) given here: http://download.plt-scheme.org/plt-4-2-1-bin-i386-linux-ubuntu-jaunty-sh.html 21:35:41 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/nbuol8 21:36:12 eli: yes, that's exactly what i've done. 21:36:21 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:36:23 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060024016bb36c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 21:36:29 do I have to reinstall it properly ? 21:37:39 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:38:03 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 21:38:37 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:26 kib2: Yes, installing it without using the unixstyle thing makes much more sense when you want to put it in your home directory. 21:41:38 parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:50 kib2: The result will be a single directory that you can later move to a different place and it will still work. 21:43:22 eli: ok, thanks a lot. 21:43:23 This is regardless of the error you ran into, which is probably a bug that I've never ran into: using ~/bleh will put that path in the right places, and mzscheme does not treat such paths as using your home directory unless its passed into the `expand-user-path' function. 21:44:41 -!- parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46:55 parolang` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:51 -!- metasyntax [n=metasynt@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:49:38 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 21:51:23 hmm... do you all pronounce CLOS as see-LOS? i don't know but i always though of it as KLOS since it's Klass not Seelass... 21:52:21 incubot: strange meanderings of idle mind. 21:52:25 The worst thing about C++ is not so much the sheer number of features, but the fiddlyness of using them all effectively/correctly. There's a lot of issues you need to keep in mind when writing (for example) a smart-pointer class. 21:52:50 sladegen: I say Klauss 21:53:09 it even fits with Kommon Lisp... anyway. CS acronymoniadas. 21:53:15 *sladegen* nods, exactly. 21:53:26 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-4.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:53:55 then again CL is not key-el ;-} 21:54:24 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:59:00 incubot: are your ICBMs safely in your CLOS? 21:59:03 (Hm, reliably's not the best word there... precisely/safely/whatever.) 21:59:31 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:00:20 incubot: is your other car a cdr? 22:00:23 the other day, I was forced to create a function that should've been in a wholly different place 22:00:45 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:02:04 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:02:48 mario-goulart: Please tell me someone has that as a bumpersticker. 22:04:21 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 22:04:46 Maybe incubot. :-) 22:05:15 *mario-goulart* goes home 22:05:34 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:20 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 22:17:26 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 22:23:37 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 22:25:57 *sigh* http://www.zazzle.com/my_other_car_is_a_cdr_bumper_sticker-128776132386843273 22:26:00 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/bd9l3j 22:34:29 -!- sleepydog [n=root@64-252-139-167.adsl.snet.net] has left #scheme 22:35:22 i keep thinking: "my other contents of the address part of register number is a contents of the decrement part of register number" and experience cognitive dissonance 22:35:29 [bjoern] [n=bjoern@dslb-094-223-145-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:01 and i should: if you're car is cdr, you've got a self-referential cons, don't you? 22:36:07 s/you're/your/ 22:37:17 no, i guess not 22:37:37 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:38:21 <[bjoern]> Hi. Yesterday I asked about DrScheme not launching with the error message "draw-bitmap in dc<%>: expected argument of type ; given #f -- === context === -- ...\collects\drscheme\private\drscheme-normal.ss:208:15"; I haven't changed anything since, but it's starting okay now. I suspect now that it failed to allocate some system resources, like GDI handles or whatever, so I suppose a clean reboot and minimizing other 22:38:21 <[bjoern]> e anyone googles for the error message. 22:38:28 -!- [bjoern] [n=bjoern@dslb-094-223-145-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #scheme 22:39:28 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:43:19 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:43 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-24.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:38 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A01E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:52:44 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A01E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 22:56:31 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:56:53 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-12-202.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 23:07:43 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 23:09:23 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 23:10:21 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-12-202.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [] 23:11:17 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@gprsinternet04.porta.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:12:42 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13:01 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 23:19:39 bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #scheme 23:24:19 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:25:12 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 23:27:29 sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 23:28:46 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:32:49 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 23:44:52 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 23:48:56 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-13-41.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 23:50:53 klutometis: No, I'd think it would just be (a . a) 23:52:19 incubot: 'A=A 23:52:33 incubot: eval 'A=A 23:52:36 eval ((lambda () (define x 3) (define x 4) x)) 23:52:48 oh, incubot 23:53:14 zbigniew: moar parens 23:53:42 incubot: (car '(A=A)) 23:53:42 A=A 23:53:49 *TimMc* shrugs 23:55:59 #1=(my other car is . #1#)