00:01:21 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 00:01:48 eli: I see you mentioned it in your paper `Foreign Interface for PLT Scheme', but you didn't tell the name there :( 00:02:24 p1dzkl: Yeah, I'm generally really bad with names. 00:07:28 Quadrescence [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #scheme 00:10:15 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:19:40 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 00:27:19 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:32:23 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 00:36:06 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:39:16 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:40:39 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 00:47:30 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-71-255-139-207.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 00:56:08 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 00:58:50 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-1b51876c5e43b0d6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:01:19 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #scheme 01:04:04 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:08:03 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:10:55 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:25:02 yuuki [n=yuuki@softbank219056232109.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 01:25:20 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 01:25:48 -!- yuuki [n=yuuki@softbank219056232109.bbtec.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:33:31 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Success] 01:37:13 Pegazus [n=gawgaw@host250.190-224-109.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 01:44:43 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:50:12 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has joined #scheme 01:51:32 -!- fingo_ [n=maxim@69-165-161-251.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:52:15 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:52:49 -!- nowhereman [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:54:19 fingo_ [n=maxim@76-10-137-126.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 02:04:18 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:10:22 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:14:13 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:14:21 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 02:18:17 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit] 02:19:20 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:46:28 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:53:01 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:53:13 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176192205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:21 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 02:56:08 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:57 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:04:38 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 03:08:58 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176219096.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:13 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 03:14:01 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:30:45 eli: Not necessarily. At least the way I see it. 03:32:09 .oO("tuples"?) 03:32:25 I've been writing Erlang all day; we got plenty of tuples in Erlang-land 03:37:52 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit ["leaving"] 03:47:10 offby1: Well, when (-> (C D) (E)) is supposed to stand for a binary function with argument types C and D and returning a single value of type E, isn't it accepting a tuple from C x D and returning a single element tuple from E? 03:47:23 dsmith [n=dsmith@66.178.229.162] has joined #scheme 03:48:55 offby1: Mind you, they don' have to exist as first class values. But we called these "things" tuples in my functional analysis lectures, if my memory isn't failing badly. 03:49:08 well, I certainly am not used to the term "tuple" showing up in scheme 03:49:20 you're probably right that they're called that in academia 03:49:39 but I reacted because I thought you were referring to a particular kind of Scheme data structure that I didn't know about, or something 03:51:12 offby1: By the same token, I'm not used to seeing manifest types in Scheme. :-) We're even. :-) 03:52:20 I don't remember what "manifest types" are. 03:52:26 the term _sounds_ familiar 03:52:42 "Go West Young Man" 03:52:45 No, not a data structure per se. I just can't come up for a better name for the collective fixed positional arguments of a function than "tuple". 03:53:35 Unless we're talking about languages with curried functions, which Scheme is not. 03:53:50 "with a better name" 03:53:50 mm hmm 03:57:19 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 03:58:21 I miss curried functions in scheme 03:58:49 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:06 rudybot: doc curry 04:00:06 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/procedures.html#(def._((lib._scheme%2Ffunction..ss)._curry)) 04:00:10 rudybot: doc Maynard 04:00:11 *offby1: not found in any library's documentation: Maynard 04:00:18 rudybot: doc Severison 04:00:18 *offby1: not found in any library's documentation: Severison 04:00:19 etc etc 04:00:24 Severinson 04:00:32 Holliday 04:00:33 etc 04:00:34 I meant I miss the natural way Haskell does them 04:00:49 just call it with fewer arguments, and there you are? 04:01:21 I don't, I can't eat overly spicy food. My pancreas would protest. 04:02:07 That might explain my weird feelings whenever I write anything in Haskell. 04:06:04 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:06:05 offby1: does that work? oO 04:06:20 offby1: you are a charlatan! 04:06:29 (define (add a b) (+ a b)) (add 3) -> boom! 04:08:28 Elly: I honestly don't know -- I wrote about one (very short) program in Haskell, a long time ago 04:08:40 offby1: oh, I mean, in Haskell it is trivial 04:08:48 yeah, that's what I was referring to 04:08:49 add a b = a + b ; add 3 04:08:50 yeah 04:08:57 I was pointing out that I miss that syntax in scheme :P 04:09:05 rudybot: eval (define (add a b) (+ a b)) 04:09:12 rudybot: eval (curry add 3) 04:09:13 *offby1: ; Value: # 04:09:16 rudybot: eval ((curry add 3) 5) 04:09:16 *offby1: ; Value: 8 04:09:19 *shrug* 04:09:29 (add 3 tbsp curry) 04:24:40 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 04:34:54 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:42:25 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:42:58 xmas12 [n=xmas12@p5DD2487F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 04:44:07 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:48:35 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 04:53:25 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:12:03 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:14:31 shaunxcode [n=shaungil@65.181.49.171] has joined #scheme 05:29:23 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-2bfa97edf0972914] has joined #scheme 05:31:11 -!- xmas12 [n=xmas12@p5DD2487F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 05:36:25 xmas12 [n=xmas12@p5DD2487F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:46:22 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:51:23 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 05:52:09 http://pastebin.com/m1ade1fc4 <- is there anything wrong with my code or is the interpretor messed up? Also, I tried that with tinyscheme and got mixed results. From the interactive prompt it works as desired, but executing it from console caused a crash 05:59:23 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 06:04:37 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:06:26 shaunxcode_ [n=shaungil@nat/yahoo/x-49610a96f2122487] has joined #scheme 06:06:57 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 06:08:17 -!- Pegazus [n=gawgaw@host250.190-224-109.telecom.net.ar] has quit [] 06:15:01 -!- shaunxcode [n=shaungil@65.181.49.171] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:18:36 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-225.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:19:17 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-225.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:27:30 -!- Hagaer [n=user@27.62.broadband3.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:48:20 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #scheme 06:58:15 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:26 clarity_: works fine in scsh... use real schemes... 07:00:31 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-81-183-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 07:02:31 -!- xmas12 [n=xmas12@p5DD2487F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 07:05:12 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:17:30 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 07:23:11 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:25:28 -!- sciendan [n=dan@c-69-250-212-245.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:26:00 ASau [n=user@host29-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 07:30:01 clarity_: TinyScheme sucks. 07:32:56 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:42:10 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:42:19 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:44:22 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 07:55:15 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:55:58 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-225.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:06:54 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 08:09:54 Hagaer [n=user@27.62.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 08:10:08 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-220-174-83.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:13:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:14:50 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:16:06 bas3 [n=bas3@80.68.88.232] has joined #scheme 08:16:16 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 08:16:22 does anyone know what fedora packages supply scheme? 08:20:09 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:20:32 fishey [n=fisheyss@69.115.52.75] has joined #scheme 08:21:18 bas3: plt-scheme, apparently; i'm a little sad the don't have chicken 08:22:20 bas3: It is my understanding that you can look it up here: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/ 08:22:29 incubot: i just gave a talk in copenhagen on an R-to-Scheme translator; it was well-received by all but the greybeards 08:22:32 (list (values 1 2 3)) ==> context expected 1 value, received 3 values: 1 2 3 08:22:44 bas3: sudo yum list '*scheme*' 08:27:30 dont they have mit-scheme 08:27:51 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-225.naist.jp] has quit [] 08:30:01 klutometis: Doubtless it's on rpmforge or EPEL or kbsingh 08:33:39 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 08:34:36 Sveklo2 [n=sveklo@a88-115-8-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 08:40:37 Hagaer: Yes, you can view the IO parts as tuples, but the term that I don't remember is one that describes the positive/negative thing with the arrow types -- which is unrelated to the tuples. 08:41:42 eli: contra/covariant? 08:42:23 hkBst: Ah, perhaps. 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[n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:33:09 shaunxcode [n=shaungil@nat/yahoo/x-1164b47ebfbb5c84] has joined #scheme 14:33:10 -!- eno___ is now known as eno 14:39:34 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:41:37 -!- shaunxcode_ [n=shaungil@nat/yahoo/x-49610a96f2122487] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:43:12 korvin [n=korvin@host-102-145-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #scheme 14:43:19 (re all) 14:44:09 is there any analogs of CL's set-macro-character, get-macro-character, etc in Scheme ? 14:44:22 No. 14:44:29 Chicken has something like it though. 14:44:49 Wait, what am I saying? 14:45:23 Yeah, I know what I'm saying (I hope). 14:45:51 Chicken allows changing the "read table", and many schemes support #, 14:46:14 and set-reader-ctor 14:46:25 Quadrescence . thnx 14:46:32 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:48:01 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:48:31 X-Scale2 [n=email@89.180.155.255] has joined #scheme 14:53:55 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:55:55 moghar [n=user@157.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #scheme 14:59:40 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 14:59:46 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:02:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:51 -!- ASau [n=user@host29-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["ff"] 15:03:25 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:03:38 hum. 15:03:38 Fare, memo from rudybot: eli told me to tell you: Just use any plain Scheme mode you want; you can also have a look at my interactive hack which extends the mzscheme repl in several useful ways. 15:04:40 hi. 15:05:19 DrScheme seems to restart the session from scratch every time I "run" 15:05:40 which throws away any precious/expensive state I may have accumulated in my previous attempt :( 15:06:33 yep 15:06:52 that sucks 15:07:27 for all its warts, CL has something right in its idea of global data 15:07:46 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-180-228.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:08:58 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@41-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:38 Guest52477 [i=18fbe846@gateway/web/freenode/x-653a4b6cd9b9e167] has joined #scheme 15:17:03 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:19:05 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:12 Adamant [n=Adamant@76.29.188.60] has joined #scheme 15:19:15 -!- socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-242-28.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:26 socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-242-28.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has 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closed"] 15:44:51 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 15:45:23 It's intentional 15:45:38 not sure what you're supposed to do about it 15:46:16 presumably, write code that explicitly generates that state, and add it to the "edit" window, so that you can get it back each time 15:51:00 shaunxcode_ [n=shaungil@nat/yahoo/x-3f3490eb9c176885] has joined #scheme 15:51:40 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 15:52:15 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:56:45 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:56:57 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 15:57:41 -!- tonyg [n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:59:25 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:00:43 shaunxcode [n=shaungil@209.131.62.115] has joined #scheme 16:01:49 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:02:51 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:06 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:06:08 I remember reading about using ::: for (... ...). How does that work again? 16:06:28 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:06:48 hkBst: 16:06:55 But nobody implements or uses that as far as I know. 16:09:04 -!- shaunxcode_ [n=shaungil@nat/yahoo/x-3f3490eb9c176885] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:21 Fare: you might be interested in my work-in-progress-slime-wannabe, geiser (http://programming-musings.org/2009/05/14/geiser/) 16:09:52 Riastradh: I would like to use ... in a very deep nested syntax-rule 16:13:12 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 16:13:14 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:13:20 I guess I'm stuck using (((... ...) (... ...)) ((... ...) (... ...))) 16:14:28 .oO("Morse code?") 16:14:48 it even seems to work :D 16:15:30 offby1: heehee, "S"-expressions :) 16:26:25 hkBst: (with-syntax ((dots #'(... ...))) ((dots dots)(dots dots))) 16:28:52  16:28:58 Uh, sorry. 16:30:00 allotrope1 [n=allotrop@instruments.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:30:12 -!- allotrope1 [n=allotrop@instruments.cs.byu.edu] has left #scheme 16:31:39 don't let it happen again 16:31:45 that made my whole terminal freeze! 16:31:53 lol 16:32:08 Just think of it as terminal air conditioning. 16:32:18 Erk! 16:32:20 -!- gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 16:32:24 There we go. How embarrassing. 16:33:13 personal hygiene. 16:33:27 Those things grow on rudybot from time to time, too; I've taught him to shave himself 16:35:16 leppie: unfortunately I don't think that works for pure syntax-rules 16:35:23 Does he ever nick himself while doing so and end up as 'rudybo'? 16:37:19 hkBst: maybe with let-syntax ? not sure about that though 16:39:03 *offby1* rears up 16:39:03 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:39:08 gnomon: did you just say "nick himself"? 16:39:15 I suppose I left myself open for that 16:39:21 gnomon: but still, I hate you forever 16:39:48 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 16:41:18 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 16:41:23 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:41:55 *gnomon* giggles 16:45:28 -!- socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-242-28.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:09 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ae59ecca91a7686e] has joined #scheme 16:48:01 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:59:41 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:00:22 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@69.115.52.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:09 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 17:02:10 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:04:48 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c8F99BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 17:05:41 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 17:05:46 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:10:21 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:18 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:19:35 Fade: Yes, that's intentional; and no, that's not a CL idea to have a long lasting repl... 17:21:07 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 17:21:36 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-90.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:22:34 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:27:48 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c8F99BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:28:12 hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.158] has joined #scheme 17:28:23 socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-242-28.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #scheme 17:29:28 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:31:01 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 17:31:29 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:32:46 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ae59ecca91a7686e] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:36:47 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:48 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@fw.tigra.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:50:57 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:55:24 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-71-255-139-207.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 18:07:51 Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 18:08:38 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 18:14:09 -!- hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.158] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:43 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-81-183-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!"] 18:31:39 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:32:09 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:39:00 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:18 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 18:46:11 -!- jlongster [n=user@68.59.187.95] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:46:24 wingo [n=wingo@178.Red-88-17-206.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:47:07 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:49:28 eli, you may want to repeat what you just said, but this time addressed to Fare, who is now here again, rather than to Fade. 18:50:15 the same as he sent me through minion? 18:50:58 No, after that, about REPL state. 18:51:14 I suppose that what I just typed has already exceeded the length of what he said... 18:53:25 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-90.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:55:56 Ugh; Fade strikes again... 18:56:02 I said: 18:56:08 Fare: Yes, that's intentional; and no, that's not a CL idea to have a long lasting repl... 18:57:04 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 18:57:56 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:58:06 HG` [n=wells@xdslfm050.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 18:58:23 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:26 I'm not saying that CL got the idea first or exclusively, just that I'm missing it as I'm switching from CL to PLT 19:00:11 will using e.g. quack.el give me a long-lasting REPL ? 19:00:26 You could always switch back to CL 19:01:18 quack.el is a red herring. If you run the MzScheme REPL, it won't be cleared unless you clear it explicitly. cmuscheme.el (which is what Quack just modified the invocation commands for, as far as I know) just talks to a REPL as if you were typing at one in a tty. 19:02:29 -!- korvin [n=korvin@host-102-145-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit ["(quit *servers* 'x_X)"] 19:03:21 I have some envy for those who used CL before moving to Scheme, because all of the disgusting aspects of of the CL language have already been accepted subconsciously, so they can overlook the perverse and just get to work 19:04:38 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-2bfa97edf0972914] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 19:08:28 what perverse? 19:10:03 geiser, geiser! slime for scheme! 19:12:41 I don't have to accept all of the disgusting aspects of CL for it to be useful without getting in my way too often. Perhaps it's a mistake to assume that CL users view their language the same way that Scheme users do. 19:13:51 wingo, does it work? 19:14:16 chandler, how do either users view their language? 19:14:53 As a flawless paragon of beauty and elegance, unmarred by mistakes in the underlying mathematics or engineering -- perfect! 19:14:56 *Riastradh* hiccups. 19:14:59 Heh. 19:15:21 Excuse me, I meant to say `as ``perfect''.' 19:16:47 Fare: I think it was mistaken in generalizing at all. 19:17:38 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:17:48 levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-9-184.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 19:18:04 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:18:34 Riastradh, you mean, users of Epigram, not Scheme? 19:18:42 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 19:19:15 Fare: I use it 19:19:17 for guile 19:19:23 i understand it works well with plt too 19:20:03 support for debugging and restarts is not as good as slime tho 19:20:29 but at least interactive redefinition, metapoint, the repl, etc works well 19:21:17 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:21:18 Hydr4 [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:22:28 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:28:05 Fare: What Riastradh said. 19:28:34 kilimanjaro: that's an odd thing to say. 19:28:34 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:28:49 hello eli. 19:29:29 wingo: Good morning. 19:29:49 -!- bas3_ [n=bas3@80.68.88.232] has left #scheme 19:30:28 chandler, perhaps I should have said "tolerated" 19:31:46 And maybe "Perl" too, instead of "CL". 19:32:50 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:29 eli, I'm not envious of the Perl users 19:36:06 but that's your fault not CL's... 19:37:11 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fc28593133612fda] has joined #scheme 19:37:58 if lisp is oatmeal with fingernail clippings, perl is muesli with chunks of meat 19:38:53 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:39:05 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:39:19 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:39:24 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:40:33 mmmm.... fingernail clippings 19:40:41 is it anthropophagy to eat them? 19:40:52 and will you burn in hell eternally for that? 19:41:18 what tastes better, fingernails or excrement? 19:41:23 maybe you can do a scientific study on it 19:41:48 my sources say no, quoth the 8-ball 19:41:56 in concentration camps, they eat excrement, not fingernails 19:42:07 or maybe they eat fingernails, too? 19:42:44 I'm sure compulsive nail-biters are condemned to hell. 19:47:06 kilimanjaro: ... but you do envy CL users? 19:47:34 bughunter2 [n=bughunte@unaffiliated/bughunter2] has joined #scheme 19:48:08 eli, yes, it's got enough of the good things I like about Scheme that I have been tempted to use it 19:49:12 kilimanjaro: Why won't you switch then? Here -- I'll make a distraction so the language policemen won't notice. 19:49:27 *eli* shouts something about Scheme the REPLs 19:51:30 kilimanjaro: Except for the policemen, I was serious, BTW. 19:51:34 REPL = REPL: Eli's Police Language 19:52:19 eli, well for the most part I have given up programming, but at the time when I was considering it I was bothered by a lot of little aspects of CL, and that's when I realized that being too much of a perfectionist means not getting work done. Or at least, you have to be tolerant of the gross things; the Scheme dream I had followed when I was first learning the language was seeking out perfection rather than finding the optimal balance of things to m 19:52:19 inimize energy spent on projects. 19:52:21 Why is it necessary to "switch"? 19:52:40 I don't seem to have any issues using both, and I have even used both on the same project at times. 19:53:57 kilimanjaro: Well, just givining up on programming seems a little extreme of a solution... But there's definitely some getting-used-to necessary when switching between the two. 19:54:42 chandler: Switching may not be necessary, but just moving from one to the other always comes with a pile of small adjustments, which overall make you appreciate the things you like more. 19:54:57 That was definitely my story with CL and Scheme for a long time. 19:55:01 I know people who speak both Dutch and English. I'd imagine they do much more context switching on a daily basis than I do when using both CL and Scheme. 19:55:27 But natural languages don't exhibit the same kind of differences, usually. 19:56:07 Here's a recent example that I ran into recently -- 19:56:26 in CL (or at least in Allegro, I don't remember where exactly I saw that), 19:56:43 (funcall some-var ...) will never inline the function call. 19:57:12 was that the jump table blog, perhaps? 19:57:30 *wingo* does not like funcall. 19:57:35 ... where the binding of 'some-var' is known and constant, I assume? 19:57:39 So, you can certainly say that both languages can support this kind of programming -- but by unifying things more, Scheme basically makes general H.O. programming much more natural. 19:57:44 wingo: But funcall doesn't like you either. 19:57:50 :) 19:58:13 wingo: (No, I didn't see that in a blog post.) 19:58:14 eli: It also makes certain optimisations harder to implement. 19:58:30 eli: But the RnRS does not speak to the issue of inlining at all; and where CL does, nothing *mandates* it. I don't think that's a language difference, but perhaps an implementation difference. 19:58:32 pbusser2: "it" being? 19:58:56 eli: The unification of Scheme. 19:59:25 chandler: Sure -- and IIRC, I've read this in some Allegro specific page too; but the the general spirit of the language dictates in large parts how the language is compiled and optimized. 19:59:58 eli: any news / ETA / views / projects on a FFI groveler for PLT ? 20:00:11 That kind of `funcall' would be *much* more common in Scheme than in Lisp -- enough that a Scheme implementor would be insane to not consider it worthy of optimization. 20:00:32 eli, re: earlier, giving up on programming wasn't really the solution, just the natural consequences of a change of interest 20:00:34 Fare: No. And it will definitely not be called "groveler"... 20:01:58 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c8F99BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 20:02:12 I do'nt care bout the name 20:02:23 a rose by any other name would smell as sweet 20:02:46 Naming is serious business. 20:03:13 eli: do you agree wrt what it should be doing, tho? 20:03:53 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:04:00 Fare: No, nothing related to functionality, just that "grovel" makes me want to puke every time I hear it... 20:05:09 eli: It does not seem that SBCL inlines in that situation either, though perhaps my test is faulty. 20:05:26 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:56 mmc [n=mima@cs162149.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:06:26 But yes, that is much less likely to be inlined in Common Lisp, simply because using a function binding form (FLET or LABELS) tells the compiler something with respect to the conditions under which that call can be inlined, where a variable binding form requires inference. 20:08:44 rudybot, eval (empty?) 20:08:46 Edico: your sandbox is ready 20:08:46 Edico: error: procedure empty?: expects 1 argument, given 0 20:09:19 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfm050.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:45 rudybot, eval (cond (empty 3) (square 7) (else 9)) 20:09:45 Edico: ; Value: 3 20:09:55 rudybot, eval (cond (empty? 3) (square 7) (else 9)) 20:09:56 Edico: ; Value: 3 20:10:02 why is 3? 20:10:12 rudybot: eval empty 20:10:13 chandler: your scheme sandbox is ready 20:10:13 chandler: ; Value: () 20:10:22 rudybot: init r5rs 20:10:23 chandler: your r5rs sandbox is ready 20:10:25 rudybot: eval empty 20:10:25 chandler: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: empty in module: 'program 20:10:38 rudybot: eval (cond (empty 3) (square 7) (else 9)) 20:10:39 chandler: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: empty in module: 'program 20:10:53 rudybot: eval (cond (empty? 3) (square 7) (else 9)) 20:10:54 chandler: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: empty? in module: 'program 20:11:04 r5rs cond 20:11:04 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_106 20:11:06 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3gogwm 20:11:07 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 20:12:20 Edico: "Except for #f, all standard Scheme values, including #t, pairs, the empty list, symbols, numbers, strings, vectors, and procedures, count as true." 20:12:35 Edico: 'empty' is bound in the default rudybot sandbox environment, as is 'empty?' 20:12:58 Neither is bound to #f, so they are true values. 20:13:27 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:13:32 eli: eh. Some people call their compiler "Stalin". Speak of names that are puke-inducing. 20:14:08 I don't see why the word "groveling" cannot be saved to mean something useful, for a change 20:14:21 but if you have a better name, I'm all ears 20:15:13 thanks chandler 20:16:46 lacking such an "of course it's there" FFI, I'll program my shell-scripting layer in CL instead of PLT -- I may port it later. 20:18:57 offby1: shouldn't a ^Q have made your terminal thaw? 20:19:25 (that's what I get for changing my GNU screen escapes around) 20:20:26 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:25:13 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:52 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:17 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:27:05 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 20:27:11 Fare: I have never expressed any positive sentiment towards stalin... 20:28:43 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 20:30:18 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-71-255-139-207.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 20:33:21 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 20:34:19 eli: great for executing programs 20:34:37 Dark-Side [n=dark-sai@ip-155.net-82-216-217.roubaix.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 20:34:40 hi! 20:34:42 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:35:41 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:36:09 may I ask you a question? 20:36:16 why scheme ? 20:36:17 You just did! 20:36:17 :-° 20:36:28 and you didn't ask for permission for the first question! 20:36:45 well, i have no excuse :/ 20:36:49 sorry. 20:36:52 soooo :) 20:36:56 Dark-Side: you could scheme if you need to come up with a sneaky plan... 20:37:06 langmartin: sneaky plan ? 20:37:07 Dark-Side: I prefer plotting myself 20:37:11 but scheming can be fun too 20:37:13 copumpkin, in 3D? 20:37:32 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:37:36 I've never plotted myself with a 3D printer, but maybe I should 20:38:04 no but srsly 20:38:19 im asking coz, even if i know the basics of scheme 20:38:28 i never did anything with it so :-° 20:39:24 I find it surpassingly elegant 20:40:04 Elly: You're just playing into my generalization of Scheme users. 20:40:09 there's no BASIC in Scheme. 20:40:17 chandler: you have a generalization of scheme users? 20:40:52 jao: what's the feed url for http://programming-musings.org/ ? 20:41:48 -!- Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:41:55 rotty: http://programming-musings.org/feed/ 20:41:55 Elly: Yes, that they're more interested in the "elegance" or "cleanliness" of their language than Common Lisp users are. 20:42:06 chandler: I am shocked by this claim :P 20:42:17 (this was from an offhand comment I made to kilimanjaro a few hurs ago.) 20:44:26 jao: thanks 20:44:49 er, "hours". 20:51:46 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:57:53 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:03:16 How come when creating a bitmap from a bitmap, `(make-object bitmap% my-bytes 100 100)` , I cannot make it polychromatic? 21:03:25 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:03:33 s/from a bitmap/from a byte string/ 21:07:08 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:09:05 -!- camt [n=camt@mail.propack.on.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:09:10 -!- wingo [n=wingo@178.Red-88-17-206.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:09:57 pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-125.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 21:21:08 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:28:02 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:29:22 Fare: It seems there is. I've just found a mention of a (subset of) BASIC in Scheme, the name of which I will not utter here, as it is even weirder than DrScheme. 21:29:38 PLT ships with an ALGOL-60 implementation 21:29:43 *that*'s pretty weird. 21:32:51 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:33:01 Ok, perhaps it is not *that* weird, but I guess I will never understand what made the author call it "DrPubaGump". 21:38:58 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:39:48 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:48:37 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@114.73.45.63] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 21:53:51 dmoerner [n=dmr@dip-14-250.coloradocollege.edu] has joined #scheme 21:56:51 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 22:07:58 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-9-184.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 22:08:11 ada2358 [n=ada2358@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:10:59 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 22:13:46 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:16:27 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:22:10 jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-27.hotspot.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:23:16 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:24:52 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:27:06 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-27.hotspot.utah.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:27:23 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@dip-14-250.coloradocollege.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:29:11 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c8F99BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:37:30 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:50:06 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:55:11 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:59:59 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:00:22 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:00:33 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:59 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 23:11:12 -!- Dark-Side [n=dark-sai@ip-155.net-82-216-217.roubaix.rev.numericable.fr] has quit ["co'o rodo"] 23:16:05 Pegazus [n=gawgaw@host250.190-224-109.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 23:22:31 -!- pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-125.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:43 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:29:29 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 23:35:16 akake [n=akake@ppp-70-226-95-240.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:17 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:39:41 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:51:45 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 23:54:16 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 23:55:45 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fc28593133612fda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:51 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme