15:38:42 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 15:38:42 15:38:42 -!- names: ccl-logbot proq Adamant sepult rouslan blandest Modius dzhus tc-rucho the_unmaker langmartin jao ambient CaptainMorgan parolang bombshelter13_ Mr-Cat1808 camt jewel_ blackened` foof Edico hkBst masm borism MichaelRaskin Khisanth etoxam moghar Judofyr athos mmc kib2 synthase snurble ponzao___ antoszka jonrafkind kazzmir copumpkin npe tjafk2 eno cky datkin_ danking rudybot offby1 Fuufie glogic a-s Nuke``` socialite kniu sphex Pepe_ rdd m811 15:38:42 -!- names: thesnowdog Poeir gnomon underspecified_ TR2N tabe Elly bpalmer yosafbridge ray Leonidas chandler dlouhy tltstc rcassidy z0d leppie poucet pbusser2 pantsd_ ioizzgd klutometis bohanlon mornfall Mr_Awesome joast tessier Kusanagi stepnem Maddas Sveklo2 ski Quadrescence tarbo duncanm mariorz Adrinael Axioplase_ zbigniew felipe ineiros Arelius weinholt tonyg Archeron sad0ur heat XTL specbot michaelw ecraven erg m3lawren CuriousTrain mbishop lde 15:38:42 -!- names: hosh rotty clarity_ incubot underspecified araujo pitui Riastradh elmex p1dzkl clog wastrel ski_ rmrfchik dfeuer _Jordan_ eli roderic Deformati easy4 synx fishey elf lisppaste g0ju sjamaan minion sciendan r0bby Fade saccade ski__ certainty bunz tizoc guenthr 15:39:41 elias` [n=c@host86-145-40-174.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:40:07 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has quit [] 15:40:07 the_unmaker: plt-scheme.org 15:40:09 naturally 15:40:26 the_unmaker: also look into "hop" -- probably hop.inria.fr 15:43:15 Even an Emperor may tremble before Muad'Dib, for he has the strength of righteousness and heaven smiles upon him. 15:44:10 Even a cat may look at a king 15:44:20 Also community.schemewiki.org. 15:47:12 hmm, picolisp has only quote, no lambda. i thought scheme was fairly minimal but it seems that some operations are redundant? 15:47:49 it has no lambda? oO 15:47:56 not that i can tell 15:48:07 can you still implement the S and K combinators in it? 15:48:10 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-6-126.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 15:48:12 i have no idea 15:49:13 well, try 15:49:50 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKI_combinator_calculus if you are unfamiliar) 15:51:35 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:52:58 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:53:04 -!- blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:13 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:56:51 lambda is redundant? 15:58:18 pico lisp is a scheme? 15:58:53 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 15:59:33 hum. What is the preferred Emacs<->Scheme interface for PLT? 15:59:59 DrScheme has its perks, but it does not have all my keybindings 16:00:48 ambient: are you looking for a minimal scheme? 16:01:39 that's one good quality, but performance, robustness and libraries are another 16:02:17 ambient, performance -> Stalin 16:02:39 libraries -> PLT or Chicken (depending on what kind of libraries) 16:02:52 robustness, I don't know 16:05:45 ambient: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/macros.html#lambda-derived 16:07:32 so are you glad you live in edinburgh now :-) 16:07:39 eek, wrong window... 16:07:59 hkBst cool, thanks 16:08:49 ambient: depending on which you prefer better, minimalistic -> chibi, a little of everything -> chicken or larceny 16:08:56 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:09:20 well i want a minimalistic scheme that can perform well in opengl applications 16:10:07 (opengl just because there seems to be no standard way of doing graphics with scheme) 16:11:41 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 16:11:47 it's not really an issue because atm just prototyping with PLT 16:12:38 Fare: you keep recommending Stalin, but it implements only a subset of Scheme and is not actively maintained. (Last version dates from end of 2006). Fast Schemes worth recommending IMO include Gambit and Bigloo. 16:13:17 Bigloo is also only fast on a subset of Scheme 16:13:38 Gambit certainly doesn't try the whole-program-optimization that Stalin does. 16:13:51 how big a Scheme do you need, anyway? 16:14:07 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-128-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:18 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-128-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:14:53 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:15:09 Fare: I doubt Stalin is even slow on the subset it doesn't implement, unlike bigloo. 16:15:29 *Fare* shrugs 16:15:31 Fare: well, it helps if it compiles... 16:29:50 jengle [n=jengle@64.252.16.230] has joined #scheme 16:31:32 hi 16:32:02 "unlikely" scheme is not robust but is fast and was designed to be embedded into opengl games 16:33:31 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:35:34 If speed is the most important thing, then you can always use Common Lisp. 16:37:55 *proq* wonders what kind of speeds you get with the intel C compiler and an embeddable scheme 16:38:20 ...or just code in C :) 16:38:40 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 16:38:49 well im going to run the program in both gambit and plt so there will be measurable speedup 16:38:51 common lisp is ruled out on grounds of not minimal 16:39:09 for the thing im doing, writing it in c would require writing a lisp-like interpreter :p 16:39:14 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:39:26 so... 16:39:33 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:01 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 16:40:32 -!- jengle [n=jengle@64.252.16.230] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:40:52 or you could just rewrite the critical pieces in assembly :P 16:41:06 im actually _also_ writing a minimal forth interpreter for it 16:41:08 so we shall see 16:49:36 -!- Mr-Cat1808 [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 17:00:59 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 17:01:36 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:10:30 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:11:11 ambient: there is also crunch for chicken, a more c-like subset of the language. I haven't used it, but the idea seems good. 17:13:07 lolcow [n=lolcow@dsl-243-38-156.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:15:47 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:16:54 HG` [n=wells@xdsley053.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 17:16:55 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A2CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:17:38 Pip [n=pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #scheme 17:25:45 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-25-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:32:01 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-c0a876f53954a057] has joined #scheme 17:33:10 sayyestolife [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #scheme 17:33:56 hm. I'm using the DrScheme environment, is there any (low-level/high-level doesn't matter) socket API available in this Scheme? 17:37:19 yes; consult the documentation 17:37:56 you probably want this: http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/html/reference/tcp.html 17:38:13 cheers 17:41:13 there is also socket.plt on planet.plt-scheme.org... fwiw. 17:42:10 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05792A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:43:04 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 17:52:03 elderK [n=elderk@222-152-15-122.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 17:55:19 -!- Archeron [n=wade@69.10.147.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:01 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:02:19 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A2CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 18:04:26 Archeron [n=wade@69.10.147.2] has joined #scheme 18:10:24 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:13:45 i have (send argb-col set r g b), how do i (send argb-col set (genetize x y)) when (genetize x y) returns (r g b)? 18:14:40 seems like there's no basic way of doing this, i might have to write this differently 18:15:41 you probably want the values mechanism 18:20:47 Pepe__ [n=ppjet@78.113.14.36] has joined #scheme 18:29:45 -!- bpalmer [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #scheme 18:29:49 Pepe___ [n=ppjet@159.144.94-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 18:31:45 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.113.30.137] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:32:18 -!- Pepe___ is now known as Pepe 18:32:21 -!- Pepe is now known as Pepe_ 18:33:17 -!- Pip [n=pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:30 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:48 -!- Pepe__ [n=ppjet@78.113.14.36] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:38:02 -!- the_unmaker [n=gschuett@cpe-76-172-12-145.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:49:50 nowhereman [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has joined #scheme 18:53:42 jao [n=jao@52.Red-83-43-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:58:23 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:47 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:03:19 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:03:58 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:04:16 Hagaer [n=user@27.62.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 19:17:11 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 19:20:06 -!- camt [n=camt@216.223.150.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:47 mmc [n=mima@cs162149.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:27:46 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A2CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:27:54 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:28:13 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-128-245.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 19:31:52 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:39:31 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:40:02 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 19:42:49 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 19:44:05 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93.81.155.65] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:46:48 -!- sayyestolife [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 19:55:14 -!- elderK [n=elderk@222-152-15-122.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:56:05 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:04:04 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A2CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 20:09:18 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 20:15:44 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:13 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:21:26 if "send" is an ordinary function, you can use "apply" 20:21:36 (apply send argb-col set (genetize x y)) 20:25:58 But it's not. 20:26:33 ambient: you can do it with a dot: (send argb-col set . (genetize x y)) 20:29:04 rudybot: later tell Fare Just use any plain Scheme mode you want; you can also have a look at my interactive hack which extends the mzscheme repl in several useful ways. 20:29:05 minion: memo for Fare: eli told me to tell you: Just use any plain Scheme mode you want; you can also have a look at my interactive hack which extends the mzscheme repl in several useful ways. 20:29:05 Remembered. I'll tell Fare when he/she/it next speaks. 20:30:27 that was unnecessarily convoluted :P 20:30:35 What was? 20:30:45 you telling rudy to tell minion to tell fare something 20:30:55 also, interactive hack? 20:31:20 Ah, that's because offby1 liked my temporary hack of proxying to minion instead of implementing messages himself. 20:31:46 I mean, freenode already provides that service :P 20:31:50 http://barzilay.org/hacks.html -- second entry. 20:32:05 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-220-174-83.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:32:06 freenode's MemoServ is not quite the same thing 20:32:17 Yes, freenode does it in an obscure-read-the-help-every-time-you-want-to-use-it way. 20:36:47 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:36:53 eli: I like it a) because it works and I don't have to write any code; and b) because it's funny 20:37:34 Elly: You see -- it was effective. 20:37:42 hehe 20:37:49 offby1: I'll never remember your exact reasons... 20:38:16 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:39:05 minion: please tell rudybot later tell offby1 hi 20:39:06 rudybot: later tell offby1 hi: yo 20:39:07 minion: memo for offby1: minion told me to tell you: hi: yo 20:39:07 Remembered. I'll tell offby1 when he/she/it next speaks. 20:39:16 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-128-245.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:40:44 Where's the "yo" coming from? 20:41:01 to do that I had to add "later tell offby1 hi" as a definition for minion 20:41:05 minion: later tell offby1 hi? 20:41:06 you speak nonsense 20:41:09 argh 20:41:14 minion: later tell offby1 hi 20:41:15 you speak nonsense 20:41:19 whoops. already erased it 20:55:18 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsley053.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:44 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 21:01:01 wingo [n=wingo@175.Red-83-32-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:06:08 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-220-174-83.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:09:31 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-253-178-70.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:09:56 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:14:02 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:26:07 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@24.62.183.102] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:27:02 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-233-162.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:31:00 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-233-162.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:32:08 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:33:36 So, did no one have any suggestions about my little 'define-foreign-enumeration' macro? 21:33:44 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c8F99BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36:57 Nshag [n=nshag@pro77-1-88-176-235-153.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:16 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:19 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 21:43:44 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:44:41 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:01 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:54:31 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:54:35 arcfide, paste it again 21:54:43 -!- wingo [n=wingo@175.Red-83-32-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:55:14 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:56:50 -!- Nshag [n=nshag@pro77-1-88-176-235-153.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:59:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/83493 21:59:41 jonrafkind: You'll have to accept a little System Specific stuff. 22:00:25 jonrafkind: Parameters, format, meta, system, &c. 22:00:29 ill have to ask the wife 22:00:40 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-134-7-131.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 22:00:56 oh is this r6rs? 22:00:59 what is 'meta' 22:01:08 phase 1? 22:01:17 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-6-126.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:01:23 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 22:01:44 jonrafkind: It puts things into the syntax or expansion phase. 22:02:01 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-128-245.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 22:02:01 jonrafkind: It's not really R6RS, but it's Chez Scheme, which is close enough. The library is R6RS, and it uses Syntax-case. 22:02:46 I have a sneaking suspicion that some of my macros and defintions are overly complex or just outright wrong in places, which is why I am vetting this out here. 22:03:59 scheme is so wonderfully portable.. 22:04:31 jonrafkind: Well, this code shouldn't be hard to port. 22:04:40 :-) 22:05:33 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-19-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:48 x.ss:4:17: export: no binding for exported identifier at: ffi-enum-cflags in: (export ffi-enum-cflags define-foreign-enumeration) 22:05:57 in mzscheme 22:06:15 hm, i guess its legal to export transformation phase bindings.. 22:07:32 i need something like (export (for-syntax ffi..)) 22:10:44 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:11:25 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 22:16:04 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:17:03 jonrafkind: Yes, that's a bug, thanks. 22:17:23 whats the solution? i havent found it yet 22:17:39 jonrafkind: I'll have to separate out the parameter into another library, most likely. 22:17:52 oh 22:18:12 You then import it into both phases. 22:18:22 But even that probably won't work. 22:18:34 No, the separate library thing will work. 22:20:40 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:21:07 jonrafkind: In mzscheme, if you wanted to change the compile values, you would have to import the library, and parameterize a compilation of the other library. 22:21:34 I should fix that. 22:29:13 Okay, there we go, all better. 22:30:00 jonrafkind: I just create an '(arcfide ffi-enum param) library and imported that into my library, took out the definition, and voila. 22:30:18 ok 22:31:38 jonrafkind: Thanks, so, what's next? 22:31:57 I guess I should first ask, does the purpose of this macro cause your brain to seeth? 22:32:43 tnovelli [n=tom@pool-74-106-78-85.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:32:47 calling out to gcc doesn't seem like a good idea in any situation 22:33:03 x/seeth/a/e/ 22:33:27 jonrafkind: I should make that parameter contain the entire incantation. 22:33:58 jonrafkind: How else am I supposed to run an auto generated stub file at expansion time to generate values to embed in the final object code? 22:34:13 Or are you suggesting that doing this isn't a good idea in the first place? 22:34:39 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:34:52 i dont have a better solution, it was just a general comment 22:36:17 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A2CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:36:40 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05792A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:38:01 jonrafkind: Thanks. :-) 22:39:30 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:32 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 22:52:52 -!- CuriousTrain [n=user@d199-126-165-137.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:28 Pepe__ [n=ppjet@78.116.2.231] has joined #scheme 22:57:25 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 22:59:13 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:26 hrgh [n=vfyuddg@71dsl82-stug.soderhamn-net.com] has joined #scheme 23:05:36 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@159.144.94-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:06:42 -!- Pepe__ is now known as Pepe_ 23:12:15 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:12:15 are there any tutorials or such to make me not write slow code? like what to avoid and what kind of coding style to aspire to? object instantiation seems to be a bad thing in inner loop, im doing mutation now instead :/ and vectors are probably faster for numerical calculation than cons cells 23:17:59 it really depends on exactly what you're doing ambient. 23:18:26 profile, profile, profile! 23:18:35 vectors are not numbers, so without any context it doesn't make sense to say "vectors are faster for numerical calculation" 23:18:59 i wasn't stating, i was asking 23:19:09 ambient: Other than understanding the algorithms you are using, and the nature of the functions you use, there really isn't any general guide, but you can show us what you are doing right now, and we can probably give some advice. Learning by apprenticeship isn't so bad. 23:19:23 (+ (cons cell) 1) is probably faster than (+ (vector-ref cell 0) 1) maybe a little. Should be working with blocks of things if you need speed though, not individual cells. 23:20:50 What I want is a tutorial on how to block runaway memory juggernauts. 23:21:16 synx: Were you the one who was wondering about syntax generate new syntax? 23:21:39 well, i don't really want to paste any code just yet. too embarassing :s 23:21:40 synx: Is it faster because the first one won't have to do the addition? :-) 23:21:43 yeah... like I need a hole in my leg 23:22:05 add more RAM. it's cheap... 23:22:22 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 23:22:30 synx: Are you still on that strange CGI thing and how much memory it uses? 23:22:52 no Hagaer I'm totally guessing it's faster, because the list structure is specialized to access the first element right away, whereas vectors must generalize for random access so 0 is as easy as element 23. 23:23:25 rudybot: eval (cons car) 23:23:25 sladegen: your sandbox is ready 23:23:25 sladegen: error: cons: expects 2 arguments, given 1: # 23:23:28 And what' is (+ (cons cell) 1)? That doesn't even make sense. 23:23:32 incubot: vectors are faster for numerical calculation 23:23:36 arcfide: No it's just when I write a program and my entire computer freezes while it's trying to juggle all the memory hogs. I'm not using CGI anymore. 23:23:36 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:23:36 for-each for lists, vector-for-each for vectors, etc. 23:23:54 synx: How many programs do you have that hog memory? 23:23:59 "vectors are faster for numerical analysis" doesn't make any sense, is what I was trying to illustrate. 23:24:05 synx: I usually stop any programs that hog memory. 23:24:28 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:24:44 ambient: Why don't you post it anyways, you've acknowledged ignorance, so we won't laugh (too much) at your code. You're learning, and after all, you think great artists started painting masterpieces? 23:24:58 ps x | grep 'mzscheme\|mred' | wc... about 7 23:25:02 lol, just kidding 23:27:20 Meh between X, Firefox, pidgin and i2p my system's already pretty stressed. I've got a leaky thumbnail creator that tries to die every 10min just in case. Aside from that it's just scheme processes. 23:27:28 synx: If mzscheme is such a hog for you, why do you still use it? There are other Schemes that you might like more if you dislike the default memory behavior of PLT. 23:27:56 But mostly it's a matter of "everything works perfectly" then I click on recently opened files in drscheme or whatever and it's like "everything freezes, nothing responds, 5 minutes later enough stuff dies to recover." 23:28:08 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:28:22 synx: How much RAM do you ahve? 23:28:35 arcfide ok well here it is http://paste.lisp.org/+1SGX i just dont know what you can tell me because the whole thing may change completely soon :) 23:29:00 arcfide: well chicken doesn't really have a very good guide how to use modules... and aside from chicken I haven't really seen anything worth looking at. 23:30:52 Nshag [n=nshag@pro77-1-88-176-235-153.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:00 Chez is a bait and switch. MIT is like PLT with a pocket protector. I guess chibi sounded interesting, but it's still foof's pet project, wouldn't support http protocol or parsing rfc822 or anything. 23:31:17 *Riastradh* blinks. 23:31:20 synx: HuH? 23:31:25 synx: sounds like you need both more memory -and- more swap 23:31:38 I'm just saying I haven't had much luck doing anything outside of PLT. 23:31:52 zbigniew: gimme $100? I'll go to the store right away. :> 23:32:13 $100? i doubt you need 8GB of memory 23:32:23 synx: MIT is *not* PLT by any stretch, Chez is hardly bait and switch, Chibi is a self-proclaimed toy, and you seem to be implying that you can't use anything but built-in libraries. Sounds like a recipe for a very bad Scheme experience if you think like that. 23:32:44 synx: How much RAM do you have? 23:33:01 I dunno, like 2GB maybe? 23:33:06 *coughs* 23:33:15 synx: no fucking way 23:33:29 yeah I know 23:33:31 synx, are you still trying to fork a new PLT Scheme process for every request sent to your web server? 23:34:05 -!- hrgh [n=vfyuddg@71dsl82-stug.soderhamn-net.com] has quit ["leaving"] 23:34:08 (Substitute `MIT', `Chez', `Chibi', or what have you, for `PLT', in that sentence.) 23:34:15 now he's forking one for every keystroke 23:34:19 ... the typeahead buffer is a killer 23:34:19 *chandler* blinks 23:34:51 I had to upgrade from 512MB because java kept swallowing up more memory. 23:34:54 No Riastradh I'm not. 23:34:57 Solution, switch to Dvorak and your out-of-memory problems will be solved for a few weeks. 23:34:58 I'm running four PDFs, KDE, XDVI, A system monitor, a terminal with Scheme, a file manager, IRC, usenet, mail, web, dictionary, and no optimization whatsoever, and I'm not using barely half of what you have. 23:35:02 I think you'd have to try pretty hard to make PLT fail that badly. 23:35:51 *eli* burps loudly and goes to get another soda & popcorn. 23:36:24 synx: Whatever you are doing, something is wrong. 23:36:37 And not with PLT, I am guessing. 23:36:46 Not even the default heavy memory DrScheme. 23:37:24 Even the default DrScheme will fit comfortably in 512MB. 23:37:35 Well I've got an email server running, and apache, and squid and postgres too. And a tor client... those don't take up much space though. 23:38:48 synx: Email server 5MB, Apache, 20MB, SQUID, 20MB, Postgress, 50MB, Having your workstation swallowed up by *************: priceless. 23:38:58 And you are apparently running out of swap too. 23:39:24 *arcfide* wants to see a process listing. 23:39:38 im using a laptop with window vista sp2, all thinkpad crap included it takes about 1.2 GB default D: 23:39:41 so shush 23:39:48 It says I have about 1300/2000 megabytes of memory. 1024/3000 megabytes of swap being used... 23:40:07 The OOM killer is fickle. Depending on your overcommit configuration, it can decide that you're out of swap just because a few programs have GBs of anonymous maps with no real pages assigned. 23:41:04 The concept of a GC implemented by incrementing an allocation pointer is lost on the kernel developers, I think. 23:41:07 Really I don't know what is causing my computer to freeze, but it's like something's just eating up all the memory, then vanishing before I can pull up 'top' because I'm kind of frozen. 23:41:07 ambient: I don't have time to check out your code at the moment, but I might take a look later. 23:41:34 chandler: I thought non-overcommit went out the window with HP-UX 23:41:39 arcfide ok, ty. but it's really just a prototype, and im learning scheme while doing it 23:43:49 ambient: my quick $0.02 is that sin and cos can be pretty expensive. you might want to change it to table values 23:44:24 well that's completely unpossible, because even the slightest rounding error might cause very visible jaggies 23:44:24 proq: sin/cos is unlikely to be expensive on any machine of recent (> 1995) vintage 23:45:19 heh. not for a graphics app similar to photoshop 23:45:26 ambient: you need infinite precision? 23:45:50 -!- Nshag [n=nshag@pro77-1-88-176-235-153.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["(( (x) (x x)) ( (x) (x x)))"] 23:46:00 Nshag [n=nshag@pro77-1-88-176-235-153.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:46:04 not inifinite but a lot more than 65536 that a sin table would give me 23:46:07 likewise, the division can be expensive as well 23:47:43 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A2CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 23:49:00 jengle [n=jengle@64.252.16.230] has joined #scheme 23:50:07 again, FPUs are ridiculously fast these days, especially with SSE* instructions; the more likely culprit is simply bignum support 23:50:28 profile it 23:51:21 hsv-rgb is also expensive and can be optimized to a lower-quality version 23:51:38 profile it 23:51:43 if you can get by with low quality 23:56:27 found clocks for pentium http://www.packetstormsecurity.org/programming-tutorials/Assembly/fpuopcode.html 23:56:29 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/m4qlua 23:56:31 if the gpu is going to handle the sin/cos, I would leave the sin/cos alone though 23:56:55 but modern cpu:s have microcode and they dont work the same way so hard to tell about those when div, sqrt sin and such are expensive 23:57:15 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 23:57:16 im not going to touch the gpu:|