00:00:44 foof: for some reason your name stuck to his tutorial, in my mind. apologies for the confusion! 00:02:27 jeez, 2 in the morning. good night! 00:03:59 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g230226122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 00:05:54 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:52 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:07:46 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:08:50 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:09:17 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:02 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:11:55 CSdread____ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:47 -!- CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:14:50 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 00:15:08 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:24 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-203.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:19:41 -!- wingo [n=wingo@177.Red-83-34-240.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:21:08 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 00:21:52 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:22:39 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:24:03 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [] 00:24:29 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-203.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 00:24:55 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-149-23.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:56 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:27:32 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:27:37 hello 00:29:01 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 00:29:06 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:31:33 ive already explained a few times what i'm trying to do, but currently i am trying to figure out this little predicament. how come when i define foo this way it gives an error? (http://rafb.net/p/MIg1ss80.html) but when i define it this way it does not? (http://rafb.net/p/X2v78M87.html) 00:32:21 is there a way to get behavior similar to (define foo ...) but using (define (foo) ...)? 00:37:44 dysinger [n=tim@71.216.13.30] has joined #scheme 00:39:44 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:41:14 eut: you're using call/cc as a generic escape procedure, similar to 'return'? 00:41:38 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:41:43 no, i'm using call/cc to jump back into the recursive search and 'continue searching' 00:42:14 ah, right 00:42:21 eut: call/cc is probably is capturing more than you want, in your second example also ((cadr )) 00:42:22 or at least that is my intent 00:42:39 try using delimited continuations (shift/reset) 00:42:40 -!- CSdread____ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:53 shift/reset? 00:43:25 CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has joined #scheme 00:49:21 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:53:41 p1 pasted "simple dfs zipper using shift/reset" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80582 00:53:49 eut: ^^ 00:54:00 thanks, i'll look it over 00:55:35 hmm 00:55:50 in the atom? tree case what is shift doing? 00:56:04 mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 00:56:27 basically it's the same, but with a `reset' to stop capturing there and call/cc replaced by shift 00:57:14 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 00:57:20 whats the difference between shift and call/cc? 00:58:06 shift stops at the reset (and a slightly different syntax) 00:58:23 hmm 00:58:38 and shift was included from scheme/control? 00:59:24 yes 00:59:45 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-149-23.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:00:48 neat p1dzkl! 01:03:08 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:04:04 -!- etoxam [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:05:24 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:13:20 hmm now i have another question 01:13:50 i'd like to set it up so that the continuation is not returned but is still available to be called 01:14:47 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 01:15:23 p1dzkl, like this example http://paste.lisp.org/display/80584 01:20:47 :o 01:20:49 i figured it out 01:24:21 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:28:53 eut annotated #80582 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80582#1 01:29:38 -!- raikov [i=3c207f2b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0b252e53c97a6200] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 01:30:07 Be aware that that will work only at the top-level REPL, really. 01:30:38 hmm... is there a way to get around that? 01:31:46 raikov [i=cbb5f30b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2a2dfe3b98c4c5c9] has joined #scheme 01:34:45 You need the RETRY procedure to remember the continuation with which it was invoked, rather than the continuation with which DFS was invoked. Then you need DFS to use that continuation, rather than the one with which DFS was invoked, although initially that continuation will be the one with which DFS was invoked. 01:35:14 ah exactly 01:36:13 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:36:15 however... how do you do that? 01:36:25 Several CWCCs and SET!s. 01:38:18 Shift & reset basically do this for you. This process is in one sense about marking a point where you want to swap continuations, and then reifying a new continuation to swap in. Reset marks the point where you want to swap in different continuations, and shift does the swapping. 01:40:05 how do you tell "with which procedure" a continuation is "invoked"? 01:40:18 Huh? 01:40:35 I think you have got your nouns backwards. 01:40:57 Try `with which erudecorp a noitaunitnoc is invoked'. 01:41:20 You said "the continuation with which DFS was invoked" 01:41:24 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 01:41:39 I am asking how does one determine "the continuation with which XXX procedure was invoked" 01:41:46 Now you have your nouns straight. 01:41:51 Use CWCC. 01:41:59 -!- jedc [n=jed1@c-98-232-225-102.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:43:11 I don't really see how that would help getting the kind of generator that eut wants then. 01:43:37 (define (dfs tree) (cwcc (lambda (continuation-with-which-dfs-was-invoked) ...))) 01:43:52 retry isn't even a procedure, too... 01:44:13 The symbol RETRY names a variable. The value of that variable is sometimes a procedure. 01:45:27 I think what you're saying is to get each iteration of the depth-first-search, he should effectively be going (call/cc continuation) and then using the outer continuation passed to "return" the next value? 01:50:02 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-39.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:51:24 right now retry lets you jump back into dfs.. but because of the way its defined it only lets you jump back into the most recent search. ideally it should let you jump back into dfs and then jump itself back into its previous state 01:52:48 https://synx.us.to/code/generatelol.ss 01:53:09 Problem is it has to return how to get the next value, as well as the value itself. Two values... 01:53:12 certificate -_- 01:53:47 or its previous context* (rather than previous state) 01:54:10 synx, file not found 01:54:37 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-159-181.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:07 oh foop 01:55:12 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/generatelol.ss 01:55:20 I'm organizey! 01:55:35 Yeah the certificate thing is just a pain sorry. 01:56:33 that code is very confusing 01:59:22 so i'm thinking that instead of just directly setting retry in the call/cc i'll need to call a function that sets the variable as well as stores its current continuation 02:01:35 jedc [n=jed1@c-98-232-225-102.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:03:02 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:03:30 Well, you can use set! if you want to make a mutating generator... might be a bit easier to read that way. 02:03:59 *jcowan* fears the mutating generator! 02:04:49 so what does your generator do? 02:05:01 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:15 It generates lulz 02:07:40 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/generatelol.ss now has a procedure to turn my thingy into a more familiar generator. 02:08:42 thats not more familiar :/ 02:08:49 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 02:09:41 It's like a python generator. You keep calling it repeatedly to get new values... 02:14:40 what does call-with-values do? 02:14:58 oh, well that would be a bit confusing if you didn't know. :> 02:15:28 (call-with-values thunk proc) calls thunk, and applies its values to the procedure proc's arguments. 02:15:38 It's one way to handle multiple return values. 02:15:44 ah i see 02:15:53 thats handy 02:17:05 notice though that stupid-multiple-values-thing->generator encapsulates the call-with-values stuff, and you just call what it returned normally, expecting the standard 1 value. 02:22:51 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 02:37:56 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:38:12 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 02:52:01 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176209141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:00:14 brandelune [n=suzume@pl275.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:08:07 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176192135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:40 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 03:26:27 is there an easier way to achieve this: If var1 = "a.one a.two a.three b.one c.one" and var2 = "a" => result = "one two three" ... basically get the words from var1 that start with var2. ? 03:32:35 pakora: I would split on #' ' then split each on #'.' into a pair, and then you have yourself an a-list 03:33:21 synx: will try, thanks 03:38:12 What function can I use to split the string? string-tokenize (SRFI) splits a string into an array on #' ' 03:38:49 I would use regexp-split 03:39:08 And there are many SRFIs so you have to use the number. 03:40:09 string-tokenize from SRFI-13 03:41:01 Oh sure that'd work too. 03:41:17 but it doesn't work for #'.' 03:41:27 As long as you're splitting on a single character, and there are no two consecutive spaces in the input for instance. 03:41:46 The second argument to string-tokenize is a set of characters that it will split on. 03:42:37 Or... no wait it specifies the characters it won't split on. Egh. 03:42:51 yeah, thats not working 03:42:56 That could still work... I would try to find something else though. 03:43:28 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 03:45:10 synx, what does call/cc do when you use it in like (call/cc foo)? 03:45:17 use it like* 03:45:37 pakora: Using SRFI-14 you could use (char-set-complement (char-set #'.')) to split on ".", after the default splits on spaces. 03:45:41 wouldnt that just return foo? 03:45:53 eut: it passes the continuation to foo, who does whatever it wants with it 03:46:08 eut: call/cc takes as its argument a procedure. That procedure will take one single argument, which will be the current continuation. 03:46:41 synx: thanks, gonna try it out 03:47:01 eut: (call/cc (lambda (cont) 42)) ;; does not use the continuation 03:47:20 eut: (call/cc (lambda (cont) (cont 42))) ;; calls the continuation with value 42 03:48:26 eut: (call/cc (lambda (cont) (set! ret cont) 42)) ;; saves the continuation in variable ret, and returns 42 (to it (yes, but as you saved it, you can call it *again*)) 03:49:06 eut: you now know everything. Welcome to the very restricted group of those-who-know. 03:49:45 thats worth copying 03:49:47 thanks Axioplase 03:49:55 mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:58 You can think of call/cc as dividing a procedure in half: a before procedure, and an after procedure. 03:51:18 i think to solve my problem i shall use a list of continuations. where dfs pushes continuations onto the list and next pops them off 03:51:46 The before procedure is called, then the after procedure. But the after is not necessarily thrown away. 03:52:11 So if you call the continuation produced, it's the same as calling the after procedure by itself, and the return value of call/cc is the arguments you call it with. 03:52:16 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 03:52:37 I don't even know what your problem is eut. 03:52:46 Are you trying to write flatten? 03:54:36 the same problem i've been talking about all day lol 03:54:52 Yes I know. What is it? 03:54:56 umm 03:56:31 i want to write one function to do recursive searching and one to jump back into the search and find the next item 03:57:16 So you want a recursive search that produces each result one at a time. 03:58:37 but i'd like the solution to not just be top level such that (dfs '(1 2)) => 1; (dfs '(3 4)) => 3; (retry) => 4; (retry) => 2; (retry) => #f 03:58:56 yeah you got it 03:59:01 My recommendation would be to write a generator, using reset and shift. 03:59:04 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:59:41 hmm yeah 04:00:44 You could also do what I did, passing in a continuation, and calling it with a new current continuation. 04:01:18 in generatelol.ss? 04:01:24 yeah 04:01:39 yeah that does sound ok 04:01:40 It's the same thing really, just a different syntax. 04:02:25 yeah i kinda get that drift, but i'm too noobie to understand it very well. so i think i'm gonna try the cont list approach and if that fails then i'll buckle down and try to grasp it 04:02:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80582 is still around... 04:03:31 oh yeah i know but that one doesnt really solve the problem i dont think 04:03:52 He returns (list useful-thing way-to-get-next-thing) instead of (values useful-thing way-to-get-next-thing) 04:03:56 It doesn't? 04:04:11 yeah 04:04:22 but i dont want way-to-get-next-thing to be returned 04:04:25 Should be fairly simple to take (foo) and turn it into a list of results, via a loop. 04:06:24 if i didnt throw out the shift/reset stuff in my annotation would it exhibit the behavior i mentioned above? 04:08:06 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 04:09:49 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.17.142.231] has joined #scheme 04:10:49 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:14:54 hmph... having trouble sorry 04:15:26 I thought it would be fairly simple, but I really haven't used shift and reset much. 04:15:49 You have to have the way-to-get-the-next-thing otherwise you can only return 1 item. 04:16:38 Unless you're...searching for 1 item in particular, not a set of items? 04:16:47 nah searching for them all 04:16:50 hmm 04:16:58 i think i figured it out.. give me a few minutes and i'll paste it 04:24:07 is this an exercise in call/cc or do you really just want suc ha function? 04:24:45 primarily an exercise, i'm trying to learn scheme 04:24:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 04:25:07 i think i've done it :] 04:25:08 ok, because as usual, you do not need call/cc to do it :) 04:26:14 the captcha on paste.lisp.org is not very intelligent 04:26:45 I dunno. I had a fun talk with it about medieval Italian art last week 04:27:03 lol 04:27:08 i mean it is always 'lisp' 04:27:19 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:34 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:29:02 eut: It's like the captcha on Coding Horror. :-P 04:29:15 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 04:29:23 eut: It's not designed to be random. Apparently Jeff Atwood says that even having a constant captcha got rid of 99% of spam. 04:29:41 orange? 04:29:44 leppie: Yep. 04:30:51 haha thats great 04:32:47 eut annotated #80582 "it works!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80582#2 04:33:43 what do you think synx? 04:35:00 now the 2nd exercise, remove the call/cc and the global state :) 04:35:02 -!- p1dzkl [i=rek@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:36:01 thats going to involve some more questions 04:36:02 how?? 04:36:23 ski____ [n=slj@c-e113e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 04:36:43 -!- ski [n=slj@c-e113e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:36:44 is that the shift/reset approach? 04:36:52 no 04:37:03 no call/cc 04:37:29 basically encapsulate what you wrote on the top level, into a closure 04:37:38 anyways got to go. 04:37:41 cheers 04:37:44 hehe thanks 04:37:59 make it behave like a 'class' 04:38:03 eut: it's not going to work sadly. 04:38:17 why? :/ 04:38:19 it works for me 04:38:40 eut: You cannot make two instances if your dfs search... 04:39:11 you mean like (define (foo) (dfs '(1 2))) (define (bar) (dfs '(3 4))) 04:39:42 Well, something like that... 04:40:24 Just have dfs return a pair of the value, and how to get the next value. Then write a function looping on those results that builds a list of just the values. 04:40:48 heck I bet you could...hm... 04:41:25 can you give a concrete example of a situation that would break it? 04:41:28 nah maybe not. But my advice still stands. 04:41:51 (dfs (list 1 2 (dfs '(3 4 5)))) 04:42:06 hmmmm 04:42:12 Well, maybe not that. Um... 04:42:47 (thread (lambda () (dfs '(1 2 3)))) (dfs '(1 2 3)) race condition :p 04:43:25 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 04:43:33 well of course with threads :P 04:44:01 it makes sense to me :P 04:44:17 Your own example doesn't finish (dfs '(1 2)) 04:44:24 It loses a valid search result. 04:44:29 oh thats right 04:44:33 it loses the last one 04:44:51 oh wait 04:44:52 maybe it doesnt 04:45:24 Sorry I'm not sophisticated enough to understand these things in detail. I do know that global = bad though. 04:46:02 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-98-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 04:46:06 It's always better to not have one part of your program affecting another behind the scenes. 04:46:15 yeah.. 04:46:59 i'm gonna takea food break 04:47:01 What I would do is have dfs return (values k tree) instead of (set-retry) and then just tree. 04:47:05 will be back in a bit to mull it over some more 04:47:09 is retry a list of all the atoms already searched and the trees to be searched next? 04:47:27 Then have another function that constantly set!s a closure variable to the next continuation, and returns the tree. 04:47:43 retry is a list of all the continuations for every instance of DFS 04:48:38 ...woah actually...yeah it is isn't it. 04:48:49 I thought retry was just the last continuation. 04:49:05 nah it has em all in there so that you can backtrack through every call to DFS 04:49:05 So you aren't losing after all, because you're using an explicit stack! 04:49:12 !!! 04:49:53 i got the idea from the thread example here http://www.scheme.com/tspl3/further.html#./further:h3 04:49:57 its the last example of section 3.3 04:50:03 So you're implementing your own sort of function evaluation I guess... and when it finishes it pops and resumes with the (dfs '(1 2)) thing again. 04:50:14 yeah exactly 04:50:34 jlongster [n=user@68.59.187.95] has joined #scheme 04:50:36 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-161-71.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:51:02 I STILL would do that two function thing though. Explicit stacks are rarely as useful as they seem. 04:51:09 Let me cook up an example while you get food. 04:51:28 ok cool 04:51:35 thanks for taking an interest :] 04:53:54 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:57:04 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 04:57:28 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 05:02:32 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:06:34 meh I totally can't do it. 05:06:35 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:06:40 It's just acting weird. 05:07:11 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/dfs-thing.ss 05:08:34 I just suck too bad to do anything besides the most rudimentary stuff... you'll have to ask someone who knows why it traverses that list multiple times. 05:13:53 mmmm 05:14:07 any faster way to compute the 10001st prime? 05:14:10 http://code.google.com/p/cel-src/source/browse/trunk/Euler/euler+07.ss 05:14:23 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 05:14:32 ooh ooh I think I did that one 05:14:39 :D 05:14:58 heh 05:15:03 (require (planet "math.ss" ("soegaard" "math.plt"))) 05:15:06 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 05:15:06 (nth-prime 10001) 05:15:09 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71.216.13.30] has quit [] 05:15:11 can't 05:15:12 that was my entire solution 05:15:14 i use petite chez 05:15:20 :\ 05:15:31 no anything besides R5RS 05:15:35 -!- jlongster [n=user@68.59.187.95] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:15:37 aw 05:15:43 (but hopefully that should force me to learn) 05:15:54 I suspect the Fermat test is the way to go 05:16:04 mmm 05:16:14 i'll read on it, for now i just do a naive sieve 05:16:16 or try the Sieve -- not fast, but fun 05:16:20 jinx :) 05:16:26 :) 05:16:34 sieve is a classic application for lazy evaluation, or streams, or something like that. 05:16:40 coroutines, even 05:17:21 it would be nice to try this one using Haskell and compare 05:17:33 There's something faster than the sieve? 05:17:34 but for now i'll sit on one language and try to improve 05:17:40 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:17:58 There's something bigger than Phil! 05:25:44 offby1, you could make it slightly faster by not checking the first 1000 possibilities :P 05:26:44 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:32:03 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-195-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:48 ? 05:37:25 you know the first 10000 odd numbers couldnt possibly be the 10001st prime 05:37:45 uh, sure ... 05:37:46 hmmm.. but i guess if you werent counting then you wouldnt know when you hit 10001 05:38:45 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:00 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit ["changing servers"] 05:39:01 why does a thread in comp.lang.scheme have 544 posts? 05:39:35 that is like one post for every person in the world using scheme 05:41:11 well, I posted twice 05:41:22 there has to be a better way to transform "295925..." into a list of numbers than this... 05:41:24 that's ok. you can have my post 05:41:25 (map (lambda (x) (string->number (string x))) 05:41:25 (string->list (with-input-from-file "data/euler 08.dat" read))) 05:42:05 doesn't (with-input-from-file "data/euler 08.dat" read) all by itself do it? 05:42:15 nope 05:42:22 the file contains "...all the numbers..." 05:42:33 and even if it contained the number instead of a string... 05:42:35 I have (define big-number 73167 ...) 05:42:41 it would be read as a single number 05:42:47 and i need a list with all the digits 05:43:28 if i read it as a number it would be even harder so i took the lazy way 05:43:32 and made it a string 05:43:48 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:46:25 i prefer string-ref to string->list 05:46:55 also, you could read as a number and keep dividing by 10. but string probably better 05:47:12 or read character-by-character with buffering i/o 05:47:41 mmmm, string-ref should work 05:48:34 by the way i think this is the first time i actually used cddddr for something 05:48:41 heh 05:48:57 ew, i dislike those 05:49:02 (blame petite chez for only accept one argument to iota) 05:49:22 that's why we say "not one iota" 05:49:42 :) 05:50:49 i did both one "iota + map" solutions and one without iota 05:51:02 i think the first is elegant, but it is slower 05:51:08 (code here: http://code.google.com/p/cel-src/source/browse/trunk/Euler/euler+08.ss ) 05:51:35 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51:50 anyway, it's fun trying different approaches 05:52:28 heh. chez has a procedure called "assp" 05:52:42 assp? 05:52:45 uhm 05:52:57 they probably named it that just for trolling on comp.lang.lisp 05:53:20 what does it do? 05:53:40 in non-scheme lisps, predicates are usually named with a word with "p" appended 05:54:11 mmm 05:54:13 (ASSP JOHN-SMITH) ==> T 05:54:15 it looks it is on R6RS 05:54:25 according to petite chez doc 05:54:36 in scheme, it would be: (ass? john-smith) ==> #t 05:55:08 (someone make a joke about the name) 05:55:30 and also in the doc it says there is also other procedures 05:55:35 such as fold-left and fold-right 05:55:46 i hate that inconsistency between implementations 05:55:55 it usually was foldl and foldr 05:56:32 call-with-current-continuation 06:01:02 zeep25 [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 06:07:13 tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has joined #scheme 06:12:26 -!- tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has left #scheme 06:18:33 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:19:17 -!- pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:26:54 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 06:28:15 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-96.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:28:30 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-96.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 06:45:59 p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 06:48:18 -!- p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:49:54 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 06:56:30 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 07:00:12 _p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 07:01:36 ejs [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 07:02:41 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:05:22 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:06:25 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:06:26 -!- _p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:56 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:11:28 p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 07:11:38 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:16:10 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:07 _p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:17 -!- p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:24:15 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:24:58 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 07:26:42 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:37:27 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 07:37:45 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:38:56 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-067-187-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 07:40:55 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054DD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:42:14 ejs1 [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 07:42:30 -!- _p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 07:42:56 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:52:37 npe [i=npe@d54C451F3.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 07:53:55 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 07:57:48 is there a difference between (symbol? x) and (not (pair? x))? 08:00:15 always 08:00:54 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 08:03:26 -!- raikov [i=cbb5f30b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2a2dfe3b98c4c5c9] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 08:04:47 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 08:09:57 always? 08:10:09 yes. 08:10:17 *elf* zorches his brains. 08:11:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 08:15:54 hi 08:27:30 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 08:32:18 There is absolutely no difference between (symbol? x) and (not (pair? x)); you'll still die in the end. 08:56:15 thanks :] 09:00:30 Is there a solid implementation of define-syntax/syntax-rules somewhere? 09:04:44 alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 09:06:56 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:10:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:14:22 -!- zeep25 [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:06 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 09:23:09 ikaros [n=ikaros@g230226122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 09:23:20 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:24:14 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 09:26:09 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 09:26:32 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:28:32 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:33:30 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #scheme 09:34:42 `sorrow` [n=kvirc@92.6.187.78] has joined #scheme 09:35:09 -!- `sorrow` [n=kvirc@92.6.187.78] has quit [Client Quit] 09:36:02 `Antonio` [n=kvirc@92.6.187.78] has joined #scheme 09:36:19 *`Antonio`* good morning 09:36:23 sanita [n=sanchy@89.242.89.101] has joined #scheme 09:36:59 Quadrescence: "googlo portable syntax-case" 09:37:30 Axioplase_: Wow, lead right to it 09:39:22 rudybot: > (symbol? 3) 09:39:23 Axioplase_: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 09:39:32 rudybot: > eval (symbol? 3) 09:39:32 Axioplase_: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 09:39:36 rudybot: eval (symbol? 3) 09:39:36 Axioplase_: your sandbox is ready 09:39:36 Axioplase_: ; Value: #f 09:39:46 rudybot: eval (not (pair? 3)) 09:39:46 Axioplase_: ; Value: #t 09:40:01 eut: that's a big difference 09:40:16 *Axioplase_* is now away. muhahaha! 09:48:52 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.17.142.231] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:00:01 -!- alaricsp_ is now known as alaricsp 10:01:14 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-239-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:17:51 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has joined #scheme 10:30:42 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-96.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:33:59 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:38:52 npe_ [n=npe@91.179.119.31] has joined #scheme 10:48:09 -!- samlt [n=sam@17.218.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:50:07 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 10:51:11 -!- npe [i=npe@d54C451F3.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:51:25 npe [i=npe@d54C451F3.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 10:57:24 -!- mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-239-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:57:52 -!- npe_ [n=npe@91.179.119.31] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:01:44 -!- npe [i=npe@d54C451F3.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 11:02:28 Can a scheme function B be written such that for all f, (f (B) ...) = B? 11:03:27 etoxam [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 11:05:50 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 11:08:25 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 11:08:53 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:14:32 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:20:17 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:23:16 fschwidom [n=fschwido@p5B26AF36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 11:30:11 wingo [n=wingo@237.Red-81-39-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:30:53 Quadrescence: Whenever f returns any value other than a procedure that's false. 11:31:05 Let f = not, for example. 11:33:49 pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 11:35:19 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-96.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 11:35:53 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 11:36:33 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:36:40 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 11:38:16 luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has joined #scheme 11:40:55 m811 [n=user@106.250.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 11:51:01 eli: finally ended up with this: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=guile.git;a=blobdiff;f=module/oop/goops.scm;h=8c980485fa343e14d7253449d137cde05068726e;hp=d7220d47032f21e854864b0c8bd1e915bcdc9b47;hb=47c8983f08157865a3937722c06acbbb3cbd7621;hpb=8bb0b3cc9d582c48ed6cb5d123168ffd27ac7cf8 11:51:02 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/qkau7r 11:51:10 thanks for your help yesterday eve 11:52:28 wingo: why still the double iteration? 11:53:03 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-36.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:54:56 -!- pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:57:03 eli: oh, laziness i guess. i suppose i should clean that up. 11:58:27 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:10 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:03:04 higepon652 [n=taro@FLH1Aip247.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 12:07:13 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 12:14:17 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:24:22 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 12:25:45 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:26:46 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:28:44 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:32:03 pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 12:33:02 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 12:33:57 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:34:50 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:39:17 luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has joined #scheme 12:40:09 Dark-Star [n=michael@87.181.109.204] has joined #scheme 12:40:42 wingo: see that code I wrote -- it should work with the single scan. 12:41:01 wingo: I wouldn't care about speed -- but the repeating of code is horrible. 12:42:47 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #scheme 12:44:00 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-235-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 12:45:03 pants1 [n=hkarau@206-248-156-5.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 12:45:50 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:46:40 -!- pants2 [n=hkarau@206-248-176-121.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:46:45 -!- pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:55:14 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g230226122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:41 -!- acarrico [n=acarrico@pppoe-68-142-45-197.gmavt.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:04:19 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:10:19 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 13:12:24 Ragnaroek [i=54a65f74@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1d23ffbd6a62ac57] has joined #scheme 13:16:28 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:18:47 totom [n=totom@glamdring.nousoft.org] has joined #scheme 13:20:01 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #scheme 13:20:05 hi, I'm a scheme newbie ; is there a way I can get a string representation of a given s-expr ? 13:20:13 -!- Dark-Star [n=michael@87.181.109.204] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:20:18 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 13:20:58 xwl [n=user@114.246.77.225] has joined #scheme 13:21:11 totom: Use WRITE with a string-port 13:21:20 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:21:42 incubot: (with-output-to-string (lambda () (write '(hi)))) 13:21:43 (hi) 13:22:52 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:59 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 13:23:53 thx 13:24:46 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:25:39 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 13:26:24 is what version of the language is this method supposed to be available ? mzscheme tells me "reference to undefined identifier: with-output-to-string" 13:26:38 *sjamaan* sighs 13:26:48 Try something like "pretty big" 13:26:59 It's an extension to the standard 13:27:09 I guess you're in r5 or r6 mode now 13:27:10 No, try looking in the documentation for WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING, and use what the documentation says. 13:27:27 ^ what he said 13:27:29 :) 13:27:47 -!- xwl [n=user@114.246.77.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:43 #lang scheme/port seems to do the trick 13:35:02 I think you probably want `#lang scheme' and then (require scheme/port). 13:36:06 unknown module scheme/port grrr 13:36:40 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:40:51 (require (lib "port.ss")) doesn't work either 13:42:29 You must specify (1) exactly what you typed, (2) exactly what you saw, and (3) exactly what you expected to see. 13:43:44 totom: `#lang scheme/port' will *not* do "the" trick (it will do a completely different trick); using `#lang scheme' (the default) should be fine. 13:44:03 totom: alternatively, `#lang scheme/base' and then (require scheme/port) 13:44:26 sjamaan: "pretty big" belongs in the "ghosts of the past" bin now. 13:44:33 unknown module scheme/port in both cases 13:44:46 eli: I'll try and remember 13:44:59 sjamaan: Thanks. 13:45:10 totom: So you probably have an old version. 13:45:16 372 13:45:35 How do you stumble across such a version, totom? I'm curious. 13:45:43 that's the one included in MacPorts 13:45:43 totom: In any case, a more direct answer to your question, (define (sexpr->string x) (format "~s" x)) 13:46:03 totom: That's *horribly* old. You should demand a refund. 13:46:08 ;-) 13:46:13 :) 13:46:22 totom: And then go to http://plt-scheme.org/ and get the current version. 13:46:41 I will, but I hate to install by hand something that's in my ports system 13:46:41 Fortunately, the price is the same, so the refund should cover the costs. 13:46:56 If you're using OS X, you're probably better off just installing the native version anyway 13:47:21 In OSX the "installation" is the simplest one -- you just drag and drop it in the right place. 13:47:28 yeah 13:47:38 Is "ports" the unix-like place? 13:47:43 aye 13:47:49 The makefile-based stuff 13:47:52 Not exactly. 13:47:54 No, not makefile-based. 13:48:01 oh, shellscripts? 13:48:10 No, MacPorts is written with Tcl. 13:48:13 your sexpr->string works anyway 13:48:13 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:48:14 thanks 13:48:15 Well, a better question is whether they bundle unix-like versions of software? 13:48:16 eek 13:48:22 There is a mixture, eli. 13:48:43 In that case they might use the "native" thing instead of that "XonX" thing. 13:49:12 Some software is bundled with the option of either; for example, the Emacs port in MacPorts has several variants such as x11, motif, gtk, carbon, and atsui. 13:49:17 (Double-quotage intended to cover up my lack of knowledge of the way too many OSX buzzwords.) 13:49:33 (Why not just say `X11'?) 13:49:38 (Yeah, those kind of keywords.) 13:50:05 I don't know, "X on X" is how I was told it's called -- I don't know if it's an internal name or some OSX thing. 13:50:17 (I'm not aware of any X11-related buzzwords on OS X. Formerly there was stuff like XDarwin and whatnot, but that's long gone. 13:50:20 ) 13:50:40 so 1 year and a half-old is "horribly" old 13:50:41 :p 13:50:43 It's *that* much that I don't use OSX. (Even though I was the one who suffered through making the installer.) 13:51:02 XonX appears to be another deceased project: was last modified in 2004. 13:51:06 totom: Yes. Especially since it's one major version behind the current one. 13:51:19 yes XonX is not really used anymore 13:51:24 Riastradh: So maybe that was the origin of the name... 13:51:32 now that's the Apple X11 implementation works OK everybody just says X11 13:52:04 XonX was used when the Apple implementation didn't exist 13:52:07 totom: A new major version comes out every ~4 years or so, so you're missing a lot. 13:52:12 ok 13:52:23 totom: For example, you're missing on that `#lang' stuff. 13:52:47 xwl [n=user@114.246.77.225] has joined #scheme 13:53:09 ... and generally speaking, about 50% of answers for questions you'll ask will be "upgrade". 13:55:32 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:57:39 -!- mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-235-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:59:48 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 14:01:16 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:03:28 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.197.178] has joined #scheme 14:06:33 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-243-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 14:10:48 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 14:12:03 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 14:14:51 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:15:20 ikaros [n=ikaros@g230226122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:22:57 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 14:34:37 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 14:34:59 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 14:35:47 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-36.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:18 -!- mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-243-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:44:21 Dark-Star [n=michael@p57B56DCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:50:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:51:59 -!- xwl [n=user@114.246.77.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:58:55 xwl [n=user@114.246.77.225] has joined #scheme 14:59:29 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:00:38 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:01:11 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-175-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:03:31 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:06:13 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:08:42 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-209-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:09:21 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 15:09:54 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:10:22 grrr, I'm trying to update the macports version to 4.1.5, but mzscheme installs scheme.h directly into /opt/local/include, and the compiler uses that scheme.h instead of the 4.1.5 scheme.h when compiling the new version 15:10:32 they should really put all the headers in a subdir :/ 15:12:51 -!- halfcore [i=support@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:55 halfcore [i=support@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 15:13:19 *eli* reminds totom to fill out that refund form 15:13:26 :-) 15:13:49 It would really be easier to just get our dmg... 15:15:54 the mzscheme port doesn't have any maintainer, so I want to make it easy for others to get the new version from macports 15:16:56 totom: using `mzscheme' only is a mistake. 15:17:03 why ? 15:17:15 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:17:31 I don't want all the fancy GUIs, and if I'm right mzscheme is the underlying compiler ? 15:18:11 We do have a `mzscheme' package, which contains a sub part of the full distribution -- but it's intended for "server situations", mostly for people who want to run the web server on some remotely managed machine. 15:18:25 It lacks a huge number of things, not just the gui. 15:18:56 And if you install the full thing, you can still use just the textual mzscheme interface. 15:19:18 ok 15:19:55 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:20:22 If you want to maintain the ports thing, then I can give you advice on that, but it usually ends up a problem because 3rd party packagers usually try to decide on the subset themselves, which can be tricky (following the dependencies). 15:20:51 And in any case, the investment is not worth it -- so I think that many of them have dumped the idea of maintaining a separate mzscheme package. 15:21:21 well the previous version just used the mz-${version}-src-unix.tgz 15:21:36 Why is it so hard for them? I assume that if you have the package, it shouldn't be too hard for the package maintainers to create the same? 15:22:22 so what you're saying is that I should just package the whole plt-scheme ? 15:27:01 Actually, if the mzscheme package used our source tgz, then it's fine. (But it's still a bad idea for *you* to use it to do development.) 15:27:25 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl275.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:28:12 Perhaps the problem was just with the Debian packager who wanted to split out the mzscheme package using their own rules, and make the plt-scheme package require it, so that installing plt-scheme would only get the delta from the mzscheme package. That was a mess. 15:28:32 Oh, and there was some RPM packager ages ago that tried to do the same for RH. 15:28:39 lol 15:28:57 why does noone like the big fat monolithic approach? 15:29:14 Because it's big and fat? 15:30:17 so im on ubuntu, and I want to get mono, so how mny choices do you think I have? there must be 50 odd packages of who knows what... 15:30:33 Slow, complicated, strong coupling, non-modular, expensive... 15:31:22 but why is it that I can download the mono tarbal, and it only requires gcc and bison to build... 15:31:30 That's because mono is a fundamentally bad idea. 15:32:10 so is letting 95 of the people that use computer, to let them do so 15:32:13 Are you going to develop something in mono? 15:32:14 95% 15:32:31 no, but I do sometimes test on it for fun 15:32:58 leppie: Actually, we'll be working on making it easier to split to packages, so plt will have the same fun choices. 15:33:01 leppie: I hear that if you don't get enough sleep for a few weeks, you can get mono that way. 15:33:12 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:33:41 I really don't want anything to do with mono or .NET 15:33:42 more confusion :( 15:33:56 yes I know synx, you and vixey 15:34:00 That stuff always gets the little Admiral Ackbar in my head going. 15:34:26 There's just something wrong with a programming framework thought up by a marketing department. 15:35:14 I thought they let Sun do all the thinking-up 15:35:32 not really, they thought long about what suck in java, and tried to avoid it 15:35:46 Oh yes, they hired Mr Delphi, right? 15:36:06 eli: I'm using mz-version-src-unix.tgz 15:36:07 who is that? 15:36:17 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:36:17 The man who invented Delphi 15:36:24 (can't remember his name) 15:37:01 Marco Cantu ? 15:37:06 Ah, Anders Hejlsberg 15:37:12 oh 15:37:14 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:37:15 wikipedia FTW :) 15:37:20 lol google didnt turn up much 15:37:58 I wikipedia'd Delphi 15:38:35 o well, i dont really know or care about him :p 15:39:07 :) 15:39:37 ah ok, I see now 15:41:23 samlt [n=sam@17.218.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:47 *eli* +1s syntx (for a change) 15:43:04 totom: To update the ports or for yourself? 15:43:14 to update the port (which already uses that file) 15:43:47 totom: That's good then. 15:45:07 metasynt1x|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:45:21 abbe [n=abbe@abbe.is.a.member.of.pirateparty.in] has joined #scheme 15:46:03 eli: do you know why you install scheme.h directly into prefix/include ? :/ 15:46:29 gcc uses the scheme.h from the previous version instead of using the one in the source directory 15:46:46 I might be able to patch that using -iquote instead of -I, but it's annoying 15:49:24 -!- ggbbgg [n=russ@c-24-6-33-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:49:31 totom: If GCC uses the old scheme.h, then that means that the older version had installed the file in the system include directory. 15:49:43 yes 15:49:48 it has 15:50:06 So I'm assuming that it's some problem with the previous packaging. 15:50:21 Building it should definitely not install any system files. 15:50:43 (I know, because our build runs on my username, and I have no root access on the machines that are doing the OSX builds.) 15:51:00 dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has joined #scheme 15:51:11 well it gets installed into $(prefix)/include 15:51:27 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has joined #scheme 15:51:36 identify mat00ter 15:51:39 I think it should be installed into $(prefix)/include/mzscheme or something similar, but that's up to your source distribution I think 15:53:30 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 15:54:06 -!- higepon652 [n=taro@FLH1Aip247.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:54:36 jlongster annotated #80564 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80564#6 15:54:49 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 15:54:50 Riastradh: I believe I solved yesterday's exercise 15:55:49 eli: actually I experienced similar issues as totom did: the build uses system files before src files. 15:55:51 totom: let me check. 15:56:16 eli: the thing is, your Makefile.in includes (cflags) before specifying its own include directories 15:56:27 so it gets ($prefix)/include before the others 15:56:36 the problem might be fixable by using -iquote, but that might be gcc-specific 15:56:53 or, you could install the headers into include/mzscheme instead of include/ 15:58:30 This looks like a possible bug. On linux it does install to /usr/include/plt 15:58:54 (And it becomes a bug with the ordering.) 15:59:02 I'll mail the authority. 15:59:05 missing -I. somewhere is my guess 15:59:20 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:37 No, I've only ran configure to see the chosen directories. 15:59:42 (On both linux and osx) 16:01:36 it might be a bug in the port too, but I don't see anything include-related in it, so... 16:01:50 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:02:41 using -iquote fixes the problem, but I have to patch every Makefile.in 16:05:12 totom: This definitely sounds like a bug. Hopefully it will get fixed before 4.2 comes out. 16:06:11 Sounds like a bug because on linux it does do the right thing. Also, this kind of setup is barely used since most people go for the "native" single directory installation. 16:06:30 (I mean, that explains the fact that it wasn't caught for so long.) 16:06:38 should I report it somewhere ? 16:07:06 sounds like a good time to mention the mailing list 16:08:36 Riastradh: although, it seems like cwcc could be defined like this: (define (cwcc k) (k (lambda (value continuation*) (k value)))) 16:09:57 mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-067-042-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:04 kekse [n=cookie@p5B2EC992.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:10 -!- kekse [n=cookie@p5B2EC992.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 16:10:22 totom: this is plt, right? 16:10:28 mzscheme 16:10:43 totom: Consider it reported... 16:10:50 :-) ok 16:10:58 totom: You can ping me in a few days if you don't see it fixed. 16:11:23 I might fix it myself, just wait till I get to the install part 16:11:54 it seems to be compiling OK with the -iquote fix 16:12:59 -!- mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-067-042-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:13:45 totom: But it's still installing into the wrong place. So I'll ping you if Matthew says that the choice of directories is correct for some weird OSX reason. 16:16:37 are "starter" & friends also supposed to be installed directly into prefix/lib/ ? 16:17:07 totom: Matthew committed and said: "put local -I flags before CFLAGS in Makefiles" 16:17:17 So I assume that the locations are needed to be as they are. 16:17:31 To get his patch, run: svn diff -c 14901 http://svn.plt-scheme.org/plt/trunk 16:17:47 that's the equivalent of what I did 16:17:59 still it seems strange to me to have so many files outside of a plt/ directory 16:18:33 for example it also installs a whole prefix/collects directory 16:19:00 totom: To me too, but I'm happy in my osx-ignorance. 16:19:07 :-) 16:19:32 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 16:19:35 -!- metasynt1x|work is now known as metasyntax|work 16:19:55 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-72-49.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:20:11 eli: his patch isn't complete, for example I had to change src/foreign/Makefile.in too 16:22:04 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:40 OK, I know why everything isn't installed in the right place, "unixstyle" is set to "no" 16:25:19 mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:27:45 totom: Sorry, I just got off the phone with him 16:27:51 The problem is now clear: 16:28:51 When you run configure, you basically have two choices -- either the unix style build, which you enable with --enable-xonx 16:29:09 (Again, I don't know if this is related to whatever xonx is these days.) 16:29:25 ... or you don't -- which means do a "native" OSX build. 16:30:03 The thing is that with a native OSX build, there is no notion of the unix filesystem thing -- it *should* all go into a specific directory. 16:30:15 yeah, that's this code from configure.ac 16:30:15 http://pastebin.com/m9b97825 16:30:38 So in that case, --prefix basically determines the directory where you want to install *the plt tree* at. 16:30:59 I thought I would be able to have both enable_quartz=yes and enable_origtree=no 16:31:30 Now, obviously doing `--prefix=/usr' without `--enable-xonx' is a common mistake (by the fact that you did it, and the ports thing had it for a while), 16:31:52 still has it 16:32:04 yes. 16:32:22 I wonder why I cannot do a native build with the unix filesystem... 16:32:23 (IIUC, those two options are mutually exclusive -- that is, you can't have a native osx application spread across the unix tree) 16:32:44 Because it's a mac application -- you get MrEd.app and sitch. 16:32:51 *eli* likes southpark 16:32:54 -!- CSdread__ is now known as CSdread_ 16:33:20 Anyway, since this is a common mistake, the best solution that we came up with is to add some --yes-i-really-mean-to-use-prefix flag. 16:33:42 well usually MacPorts installs native OS X apps into /Applications/MacPorts 16:34:28 And if you do a normal osx build with --prefix and without --enable-xonx, then it will throw an error and ask you to use that flag after you understand what you're doing. 16:35:02 In that case, I guess that you should use --prefix=/Applications/MacPorts/PLT 16:35:27 But it's easier to just not use it -- the PLT tree will build "in place", and then you can move it to wherever you want. 16:35:56 any Scheme with a graph/chart drawing library? (to generate statistics on text analysis, co-occurrences, word weight, etc...) 16:36:03 I think one should put all the UNIX stuff (unix executables &c.) in the prefix and just the apps in /Applications 16:39:08 -!- samlt [n=sam@17.218.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:43:11 totom: But that's not the way that OSX applications work -- AFAIK (which is obviously not much). I think that libraries and such are all kept in the same directory. We actually had some Framework/Library whatever thing, which was causing much pain. 16:43:28 cel: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/plot/ 16:44:02 eli: actually with some magic you can tell the OS to look for the frameworks elsewhere, and that's what's already being done in the current port 16:44:12 eli thanks 16:44:13 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 16:44:22 so that you can cleanly separate the parts in case the thing can also be used as a pure-unix variant 16:44:46 in the current port : 16:44:47 reinplace "s|@FRAMEWORK_INSTALL_DIR@|${destroot}${frameworks}|" \ 16:44:47 ${worksrcpath}/mzscheme/Makefile.in 16:45:06 ${destroot} maps to the UNIX prefix (/opt/local) 16:45:08 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:45:36 totom: "Cleanly" is relative to whether you had to package these things, and deal with multiple versions and whatever, or not. 16:45:54 totom: I don't know the exact details, but I do know that it was causing many problems. 16:46:04 ok :/ 16:46:25 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g230226122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 16:46:30 if you disable MrEd then what are the OS X-native parts left ? 16:46:35 totom: BTW, don't take my OSX-ignorance as an indicator -- teh majority of the team are on OSX (and have been on Macs since before OSX even). 16:46:42 ok 16:46:56 totom: So in general they know what they're doing pretty well... 16:47:02 I'm sure of it 16:47:27 I don't know but you're now scratching the limit of what I can say, without making it all out of brain farts... 16:47:41 So this is my cue to say that it's best to ask this on the mailing list. 16:48:00 -!- ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:31 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:48:44 ok 16:48:58 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:49:10 http://list.cs.brown.edu/mailman/listinfo/plt-dev/ ? 16:50:51 totom: Yes -- either that, or .../plt-scheme for a less internal-developement-oriented discussions. 16:51:11 (Both available on Gmane too, in case you like that interface more.) 16:56:36 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:56:56 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:58:03 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:08 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 17:00:46 -!- xwl [n=user@114.246.77.225] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:11:18 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 17:13:16 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 17:19:28 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-237-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:09 eli: do you know where the paths to the available Collects directory is stored ? 17:23:35 (I'm trying to build it with unixstyle just to check if it's actually feasible before posting to the ML) 17:25:45 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:26:37 What do you mean by "the paths to the available collects"? 17:27:00 lib: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: "scheme" in any of: (# #) in: (lib "scheme/init") 17:27:05 when I start up mzscheme 17:27:07 that list is wrong 17:27:14 it includes the temporary installation directory 17:27:41 I have to remove /opt/local/var/macports/build/_Users_thomas_Documents_Dev_MacPorts_ports_lang_mzscheme/work/destroot/ from the path 17:28:14 Ah -- that's stored inside the binary, after a "coLLECTs dIRECTORy:" tag. 17:28:40 You can also control it through an `-X' flag, or through a `PLTCOLLECTS' environment variable. 17:30:15 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-94.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 17:31:13 yes I suspected -X 17:31:23 the config.ss file is wrong too 17:31:40 What's wrong about it? 17:32:24 well it contains those paths too, I have to find out from where it's being written 17:32:42 I'll try to fix the -X to see if that's enough 17:33:00 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [] 17:33:51 The config file (and the binaries) happen when it's placing the files in the destination. 17:39:29 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 17:42:07 -!- aLeSD [n=alex@193.153.120.180] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:42:31 rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 17:43:50 ggbbgg [n=russ@c-24-6-33-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:45:17 jlongster, huh? You can't define CWCC that way; it has one parameter in direct-style-land, and thus two (one for the user-parameter and one for the continuation-parameter) in CPS-land. Furthermore, in CPS-land, you're not allowed to write nested combinations. The definition of CWCC that I gave you is correct, and so, I believe, is the final form that you wrote. 17:45:42 jlongster, oops, disregard the remark about nested combinations. 17:47:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 17:49:29 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 17:50:08 Riastradh: ok, I see. It violates CPS. 17:50:13 ikaros [n=ikaros@g230226122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:52:39 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:55:20 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:55:42 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:01:05 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:01:24 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:01:51 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:22 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-243-95-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:09:36 -!- copumpkin is now known as pumpkin 18:09:41 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 18:14:07 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 18:16:12 -!- mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-237-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:20:22 -!- Dark-Star [n=michael@p57B56DCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:20:42 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:25:38 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:27:01 I think I've found the underlying problem. You can't use unix-style install on OS X since unixstyle-install.ss doesn't support the Mach-O format 18:31:39 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 18:32:56 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:33:30 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:19 samlt [n=sam@17.218.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 18:37:53 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:13 geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:45:35 saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 18:46:34 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:51:39 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.213.196] has joined #scheme 18:52:09 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:52:42 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:54:13 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:54:16 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-123-13.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:24 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:34 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:47 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:01:45 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 19:02:33 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-243-95-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:03:48 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-123-13.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:04:03 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [] 19:06:00 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:07:11 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:08:22 mejja [n=user@c-a3b3e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:08:34 jao [n=jao@120.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:35 Is there a way to define a variable using the result of evaluating some expression as the variable's name? 19:11:00 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:10 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-96.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:12:51 No. 19:13:18 Wow. 19:13:46 you can do it at compile-time, of course. 19:17:23 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:18:13 incubot: (begin (eval '(set! just-testing 1)) just-testing) 19:18:14 1 19:18:41 You'd have to set the value in the eval too, which might not be desirable 19:18:57 Ah, thank you 19:19:17 This only works in schemes where define and set! are the same thing, I guess 19:19:33 Or if you know the variable was defined before 19:20:25 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:20:26 hm, actually, it works with define too, in Chicken 19:20:39 Is DrScheme supposed to highlight your code as you type it in? 19:20:40 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:20:50 Or only after you hit "check syntax"? 19:21:10 -!- jao [n=jao@120.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:21:50 jao [n=jao@33.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:27 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:24:08 (Something must be wrong because it's auto-indent is all over the place.) 19:24:29 -!- jao [n=jao@33.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:43 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:26:46 choas [n=lars@p5B0DD448.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:30 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 19:34:25 *`Antonio`* has finish his database !!! 19:34:32 *`Antonio`* so happy! 19:35:34 what database `Antonio`? 19:35:50 jao [n=jao@78.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:56 <`Antonio`> sql 19:36:01 <`Antonio`> with oracle 19:36:25 eh, whatever 19:41:04 hooray 19:41:09 require scheme/port works :-) 19:41:19 incubot: how can I compile Scheme to Python? 19:41:24 only Schemes I can think of that would satisfy those requirements are Scheme48 & MIT Scheme. 19:41:31 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has joined #scheme 19:41:54 :o 19:42:14 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@93-81-191-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:43:31 Hi all. I you were me, how would you represent mime types in scheme? For now I'm going to use a pair of symbols, i.e. '(application . pdf). 19:43:45 s/I/If/ 19:45:47 i assume you need to destructure them 19:49:35 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:51:07 -!- jao [n=jao@78.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:54:01 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 19:55:04 jao [n=jao@187.Red-88-15-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:56:26 -!- abbe [n=abbe@abbe.is.a.member.of.pirateparty.in] has quit [] 19:56:45 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:57:19 Ah, yeah, I'm always forgetting about those optional parameters. 19:59:14 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:00:36 is (begin) ever valid in r6rs scheme? 20:02:36 Seems to be so 20:03:05 plt-r6rs does not complain about this: (import (rnrs))(begin) 20:03:46 ah it seems (begin) is valid in definition context 20:04:23 maybe 20:04:51 rudybot: eval (quasiquote ((unquote-splicing (list 1 2) (list 3 4)))) 20:04:52 wingo: your sandbox is ready 20:04:52 wingo: error: eval:1:12: unquote: expects exactly one expression at: ((unquote-splicing (list 1 2) (list 3 4))) in: (quasiquote ((unquote-splicing (list 1 2) (list 3 4)))) 20:05:20 Aha, you're right 20:05:22 -!- dlt_ is now known as dlt_away 20:06:22 Inside a lambda (begin) causes plt-r6rs to throw `empty form' error. 20:06:37 dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has joined #scheme 20:06:52 Mr-Cat: if it isn't followed by any expressions, sure 20:07:25 Ah, yes 20:07:57 is that because (begin) evaluates to nothing? and lambda needs something? 20:08:09 not because (begin) doesnt work 20:09:00 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:09:06 Probably not 20:09:10 offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 20:09:10 I'm not sure what "evaluates to nothing" means. 20:09:25 rudybot: eval ((lambda () (values)) 20:09:25 chandler: your sandbox is ready 20:09:25 chandler: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 20:09:34 bah, you and your syntax 20:09:40 rudybot: eval ((lambda () (values))) 20:10:11 no values is apparently no values 20:10:22 It would be nice if evaluations returning no values caused rudybot to respond with "; No values." or the like 20:11:15 This code also produces an "empty form" error: (import (rnrs))((lambda () (display 456)(begin)123)) 20:11:35 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has quit [Operation timed out] 20:13:18 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:55 yea, ((lambda () (display 456)(begin)123)) worked for me, but i think its because the compiler just took the (begin) out entirely 20:14:40 jedc: strictly speaking that is incorrect, afaict. 20:15:09 jedc: so, ((lambda () (display 456)(begin)123)) does not produce an arror for you? What implementation do you use (I use plt-r6rs) 20:15:11 ? 20:15:45 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 20:16:15 rudybot: eval ((lambda () (display 456)(begin)123)) 20:16:16 mejja: your sandbox is ready 20:16:16 mejja: error: eval:1:25: begin: bad syntax (empty form) in: (begin) 20:18:07 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:41 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 20:24:19 -!- dlt_away [n=dlt@201.80.197.178] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:26:13 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:13 -!- samlt [n=sam@17.218.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:30:34 jao` [n=jao@228.Red-81-32-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:33:03 -!- ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:35:05 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-209-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["-_-"] 20:35:18 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["later"] 20:37:19 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 20:37:41 -!- jao` [n=jao@228.Red-81-32-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:39:15 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 20:42:08 -!- jao [n=jao@187.Red-88-15-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:46:55 Where is the most appropriate place to post pre-release bugs in PLT Scheme to? The users or the dev list? 20:47:29 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 20:47:43 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a65f74@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1d23ffbd6a62ac57] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 20:47:53 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has joined #scheme 21:05:11 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 21:06:44 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [] 21:08:05 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:08:14 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.77.151] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:08:49 dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has joined #scheme 21:09:56 -!- ejs [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:15 probably a good question for the plt channel :) 21:10:31 plt channel? 21:10:56 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-191.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:41 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:43 Good afternoon. 21:16:03 good evening. 21:18:33 metasyntax: I'd go for the dev list 21:22:43 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:22:57 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:26:44 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [No route to host] 21:26:56 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@p5B26AF36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:23 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #scheme 21:28:38 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:53 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=greg@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:37:13 patric [n=patric@90-230-89-60-no148.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #scheme 21:38:08 -!- patric [n=patric@90-230-89-60-no148.tbcn.telia.com] has left #scheme 21:38:42 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:39:46 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:41:24 wingo: I didn't know there was a PLT channel. What is it? 21:45:00 My cat got run over ;_; 21:45:23 Poor critter :( 21:45:28 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:28 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:45:56 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:45:58 :( 21:46:21 metasyntax: i just assumed one exists 21:47:17 it seems not 21:47:26 :( foof. 21:47:36 heheh, eli is in plt-scheme but when I try to join I get banned :-) 21:48:04 no worries, I found that DrScheme has a bug reporting system which caught a dev's attention pretty quick so it's all good 21:48:25 it is a strategy to flood #scheme with plt-specific concerns :) 21:48:33 Mr-Cat: Did you figure out your MIME type thing? 21:49:01 metasyntax: Usually it's fine to discuss implementation details here, since it is Scheme, somewhat. Besides, I like to hear it. :-) 21:50:01 Heh, well the long and the short of it is that syntax highlighting and auto-indent don't work in DrScheme. 21:50:20 Really little more to it than that, so it must be something bizarre or else it would have been found out by now. 21:50:41 metasyntax: Does syntax highlighting usually work for you? 21:50:53 arcfide: I'll appreciate any advice :) 21:51:01 arcfide: Yeah, it should be highlighting new code that you type in, but it's coming out plain black. 21:51:14 And auto-indent is just throwing the cursor at seemingly arbitrary positions. 21:51:58 Mr-Cat: MIT Scheme's mod_lisp library uses symbols for MIME types, because it uses them as keys to association lists for looking up certain data. 21:52:03 arcfide: For now I'm trying to figure out whether xdg specs allow only type/subtype mime types or optional params as well. 21:52:34 metasyntax: That sounds like a syntax issue to me. Usually that happens when you have missed something that should have been there. 21:52:43 Like a " or something. 21:52:44 arcfide: Thanks 21:53:11 -!- mejja [n=user@c-a3b3e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:53:41 Mr-Cat: I am also using a single symbol to represent MIME types in my libraries partially for compatibility with MIT Scheme's ssp, but also because it is simple, easy, and I don't know that I really care about breaking apart a mimetype. 21:54:54 With things like URIs, I do care, so I use a record for that, but for MIME types, does it really matter for your application that it starts with "application" or "text"? 21:55:04 arcfide: Yeah, I've never had to break mime types apart as well. So, maybe a single symbol is a good idea. 21:56:12 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:48 arcfide: Nope, the "check syntax" feature verifies everything is alright. 21:57:09 If I tell DrScheme to use "Scheme mode" in the buffer, everything gets highlighted but when I type new stuff it is not. 21:57:32 Huh... 21:57:47 I don't use DrScheme, but maybe that's how it works. 21:57:59 I would expect indentation to work correctly though. 21:58:29 arcfide: I just checked an older version and it worked alright there, so it's either new or it has to do with that machine. 21:58:36 arcfide: I'm planning to implement some xdg stuff (i.e. .desktop file parser, default application launcher and so on) and I'm still not sure, whether I need to break mime types apart. But seems, that I don't. 21:58:43 It's AMD64 versus the working machine is i386 but I wouldn't guess that should matter. 22:00:04 Mr-Cat: If you are worried about it, you might want to abstract away a bit, and have MIME-EQ?, MAKE-MIME-TYPE, &c. 22:00:20 You could then use symbols easily at first, and if it turns out that you need to break them apart, it would be easy to adjust. 22:02:28 p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@1505ds1-str.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 22:02:30 arcfide: Maybe. For now, I'm just thinking over this stuff during my free time (in public transport mostly) :). But "abstracting-when-not-sure" seems to be a schemish way. 22:03:19 With a decent Scheme system, a simple abstraction like this should cost you all of miliseconds of compile time, and not much else. 22:04:19 arcfide: Yeah, thanks 22:06:30 ikaros_ [n=ikaros@g227070037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:07:20 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:08:48 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-0-186-254.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 22:09:34 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:08 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:16:55 npe [n=npe@91.179.119.31] has joined #scheme 22:17:04 -!- wingo [n=wingo@237.Red-81-39-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:21:02 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g230226122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:28 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.213.196] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:22 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:50 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:27:31 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054DD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:29:05 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:31:23 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 22:36:13 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-94.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:38:29 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-98-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:40:53 -!- ikaros_ is now known as ikaros 22:46:08 copumpki [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-194.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 22:46:27 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 22:46:54 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:47:10 -!- copumpki is now known as pumpkin 22:56:29 rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 23:00:47 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:53 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 23:03:58 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-724443504d325e8f] has joined #scheme 23:05:37 chickamade [n=chickama@222.254.12.143] has joined #scheme 23:06:34 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 23:07:22 brandelune [n=suzume@pl357.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:07:41 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13:43 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:17:30 -!- sanita [n=sanchy@89.242.89.101] has left #scheme 23:17:57 incubot: didn't you get the memo? "harro" is the new foo 23:18:00 btw. why is it (fold (lambda (elem memo)) init list) but (vector-fold (lambda (index memo elem) init vector))? 23:18:52 incubot: because the index is useful for vectors, but not for lists 23:18:54 index-or-expand was found online, and it works when editing scheme code, but not in the scheme run buffer. 23:21:02 *`Antonio`* good night 23:21:04 -!- `Antonio` [n=kvirc@92.6.187.78] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 23:21:33 -!- pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-194.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:25:55 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-724443504d325e8f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:27:32 -!- etoxam [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:04 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 23:36:02 eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 23:48:05 raikov [i=cbb5f30b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f5496e857636913f] has joined #scheme 23:48:56 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g227070037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:57:12 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:58:20 -!- npe [n=npe@91.179.119.31] has quit []