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03:21:25 <klutometis> due to a shift-reduce conflict, it's convenient to recognize ni as +ni, even though it isn't allowed by r5rs
03:21:28 <klutometis> is this criminal?
03:22:32 <klutometis> (where n is an unsigned integer, and i is the imaginary symbol)
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03:59:00 <neilv> sicp is supposed to give you a "rogers" procedure, which paints mit founder william barton rogers
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04:00:29 <neilv> in sicp-plt, it paints mr. rogers
04:01:41 <Elly> heh :P
04:03:02 <klutometis> r5rs claims that exactness is orthogonal to number type; there should be an exact and inexact representation of the real number 1.3
04:03:08 <klutometis> most schemes convert it to a rational, though
04:03:11 <klutometis> breaking the orthogonality
04:03:17 <klutometis> rudybot: eval #e1.3
04:03:18 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: 13/10
04:08:40 <klutometis> and yet:
04:08:47 <klutometis> rudybot: (inexact->exact 1.3)
04:08:48 <rudybot> klutometis: eh?  Try "rudybot: help".
04:08:53 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (inexact->exact 1.3)
04:08:53 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: 5854679515581645/4503599627370496
04:09:13 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (real? #e1.3)
04:09:14 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: #t
04:09:20 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (rational? #e1.3)
04:09:20 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: #t
04:09:27 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (complex? #e1.3)
04:09:28 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: #t
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04:13:55 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (rational? pi)
04:13:55 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: #t
04:14:01 <klutometis> god damn you, rudybot
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04:17:47 <offby1> :-(
04:18:19 <offby1> rudybot: eval pi
04:18:19 <rudybot> *offby1: ; Value: 3.141592653589793
04:18:22 <klutometis> offby1: sorry, man; it's not rudybot, it's my frustration at the number stack
04:18:23 <offby1> I didn't know pi was built in
04:18:39 <offby1> god damn you, incubot
04:18:44 <klutometis> heh
04:18:46 <offby1> OK, we're even.
04:19:14 <offby1> rudybot: eval 
04:19:14 <rudybot> *offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: 
04:19:31 <klutometis> of course pi is going to be rational; unless someone came up with a clever irrational type
04:19:55 <klutometis> from r5rs: "unusual implementation may be able to represet some irrational numbers exactly"
04:20:09 <klutometis> but plt is not unusual in that respect; nor any scheme i've come across
04:20:27 <klutometis> pi is going to be rational due to bounded sig figs
04:23:30 <offby1> I guess pi isn't really , but rather a rational approximation to it.
04:23:41 <offby1> rudybot: eval (rational?(sqrt 2))
04:23:41 <rudybot> *offby1: ; Value: #t
04:23:50 <offby1> I wonder how it knows what's rational and what isn't.
04:23:51 <klutometis> it would be nice to formalize an irrational type with a production function and no bound on precision; that doesn't answer to rational? but answers to real? and above
04:24:17 <klutometis> offby1: they appear to be doing a real?/rational? heuristic
04:24:43 <klutometis> r5rs 6.2.5: "in many implementations the rational? producure will be the same as real?"
04:24:47 <klutometis> but:
04:24:52 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (rational? 1)
04:24:53 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: #t
04:24:57 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (rational? #e1)
04:24:58 <rudybot> klutometis: ; Value: #t
04:25:15 <zbigniew> just make your numbers base pi
04:25:31 <klutometis> zbigniew: nice
04:25:47 <leppie> any ieee floating point can be converted to a rational except nan's and infinities
04:26:09 <klutometis> rudybot: eval (string->number "3.1415" pi)
04:26:10 <rudybot> klutometis: error: string->number: expects type <exact integer in [2, 16]> as 2nd argument, given: 3.141592653589793; other arguments were: "3.1415"
04:26:47 <klutometis> leppie: yeah; i'd like to implement honest irrationals with a production function
04:26:51 <klutometis> sort of like a number stream
04:27:24 <leppie> o ok, now I have no idea what you are talking about :)
04:28:15 <klutometis> a number type could be associated with a thunk (say (* 4 (atan 1))); and precision could be bled out at will
04:28:16 <leppie> o well off to work
04:28:20 <klutometis> leppie: bye
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04:38:39 <synx> You might be looking for lazy evaluation, klutometis. It'd be nice to have irrational numbers stay exact until the moment they must be displayed though...
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04:43:19 <klutometis> synx: exactly; streams are a form of lazy evaluation, aren't they? in this case, number streams
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04:55:38 <synx> digit streams
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05:07:56 <geckosenator> but if you want to display Pi as the greek symbol?
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05:08:52 <synx> Maybe what we need is a symbolic math library.
05:09:12 <geckosenator> yes
05:09:13 <synx> It'd have to be smart enough to simplify things down, like (= (/ pi pi) 1)
05:09:21 <geckosenator> of course
05:09:32 <geckosenator> it would even do (sqrt pi)
05:09:42 <geckosenator> display it correctly
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05:10:41 <synx> So are we looking for symbolic math, or lazy evaluation?
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05:13:05 <geckosenator> both
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06:37:39 <eut> hello
06:37:58 <eut> can you make a continuation visible at the global scope?
06:44:51 <geckosenator> yes
06:45:39 <geckosenator> specbot: eval 1
06:45:42 <geckosenator> hmm
06:45:45 <geckosenator> rudybot: eval 1
06:45:46 <rudybot> geckosenator: your sandbox is ready
06:45:46 <rudybot> geckosenator: ; Value: 1
06:45:57 <geckosenator> rudybot: eval (begin (define x (call/cc (lambda (x) x))) (x 1) x)
06:45:57 <rudybot> geckosenator: ; Value: 1
06:46:07 <geckosenator> there you are :-P
06:46:16 <eut> hmm
06:46:24 <geckosenator> I have o use begin for the bot
06:46:38 <geckosenator> but you can execute the 3 instructions in sequence at the global level
06:47:56 <eut> what does begin do?
06:48:29 <geckosenator> geez
06:49:05 <geckosenator> wait, are you a noob?
06:49:10 <eut> uhh yeah :P
06:49:58 <geckosenator> oh ok
06:50:53 <geckosenator> sry I don't help noobs
06:51:29 <eut> what? thats crazy
06:52:36 <geckosenator> crazy as me
06:54:18 <projections> in istanbul,people teaching coding have no idea what lisp is
06:54:39 <projections> they say what?come again...
06:54:52 <eut> lol
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07:26:07 <X-Scale> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2309962789_773942b75d.jpg?v=0
07:26:12 <X-Scale> He knows better.
07:29:04 <projections> :)
07:29:11 <projections> thats the way to go
07:31:15 <X-Scale> heh...there is a hidef version of it http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2309962789_e3103a7897_o_d.jpg
07:32:28 <projections> :) kid is lucky
07:32:36 <projections> he has lots of books
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07:35:40 <X-Scale> you bet
07:36:55 <projections> i could have learnt at least understood the books if i was a bit hard working student,now i need to study maths again
07:37:51 <projections> and english :) haha
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07:43:12 <X-Scale> You'll get a lot of math books online.
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07:43:33 <projections> yea i got calculus books and discrete math books
07:43:59 <X-Scale> I've just saw that neilv last SICP texinfo version is on PDF online too -> http://www.scribd.com/doc/15556326/Structure-and-Interpretation-of-Computer-Programs-SICP
07:44:01 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/qsrube
07:44:30 <projections> ive got that one
07:44:33 aLeSD [n=alex@161.72.27.220] has joined #scheme
07:45:17 <aLeSD> hi all .. I'm back
07:45:25 <aLeSD> join #GTC
07:45:42 <projections> hi aLeSD
07:45:53 <aLeSD> aloa
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07:46:07 <projections> whats gtc?
07:46:20 <aLeSD> GRANTECAN channel
07:47:29 <lisppaste> juan1483 pasted "Polynomial Sum & Mult. " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80418
07:49:30 <antoszka> X-Scale: Is that version you posted the link to downloadable?
07:49:39 <X-Scale> yes
07:49:39 <antoszka> X-Scale: The download button doesn't do anything for me.
07:49:46 <antoszka> But perhaps it just doesn't like Opera.
07:49:57 <antoszka> Looks very over JS-ed.
07:49:58 <X-Scale> let me try here on Opera
07:50:52 <X-Scale> it works
07:50:57 <X-Scale> Gives me this address: http://www.scribd.com/document_downloads/15556326?extension=pdf&secret_password=
07:50:58 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/pnzjlu
07:52:02 <antoszka> I'll try, thx.
07:52:28 <antoszka> Tells me to log in.
07:52:50 <X-Scale> ah
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07:52:56 <X-Scale> Maybe you need to register
07:53:27 <antoszka> yeah, just doing that
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07:55:18 <antoszka> I have the paper edition anyway. Except it's in Polish, and sometimes it's good to be able to see the original.
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08:03:09 <X-Scale> Is it working, antoszka ?
08:04:20 <antoszka> X-Scale: Yep, got it here, thanks.
08:05:15 <X-Scale> :)
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08:15:25 <lisppaste> juan1483 pasted "Maze Problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80419
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09:01:57 <foof> http://blogs.sun.com/CoreJavaTechTips/entry/superduper_slow_jar <- how does that not get noticed until now?
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10:49:54 <mngbd> I am going to implement a type system and generic functions. E.g. I have a function 'ref' that decides the type of its argument and calls list-ref, string-ref or... My 'type' function has to check all the type predicates, in some order, and returns a type tag. This means it runs slower for every new type added, since there will be more predicates to check until one is true. This annoys me, but i see no way around this inefficieny in
10:49:55 <mngbd> Standard Scheme. Do you have an idea how to optimise this?
10:50:29 <mngbd> My
10:51:02 <mngbd> 'ref' function, for instance, runs for lists about 20% slower than list-ref.
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10:55:10 <foof> That would depend on how long the list is.
10:55:32 <foof> Look at the Meroon paper.
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11:24:26 <sladegen> incubot: scream!
11:24:30 <incubot> until the implementation authors scream in terror and beat you with a nail-studded bat
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11:24:51 <sladegen> not me!
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16:02:18 <chandler> proq: let's not bother #opendarwin with that discussion :-)
16:02:43 <chandler> no, I'm not "working on it"
16:02:48 <proq`> chandler: ok.
16:02:48 <chandler> I need an alist of term -> URL
16:03:00 <chandler> if you (or someone else) can provide that index I'll add it
16:05:28 <proq`> just in case everyone is wondering what we're talking about,
16:05:29 <proq`> <proq> chandler: are you working on r6rs support for the bot by any chance?
16:06:07 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme
16:06:15 <chandler> where "the bot" means specbot
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17:05:53 <korvin> q all
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18:03:19 *`sorrow`* Hi !!!
18:03:51 -!- `sorrow` is now known as `Antonio`
18:07:22 <Elly> hello
18:07:39 <pumpkin> you remind me of an infix function in haskell!
18:08:00 <Elly> you remind me of a shell execution!
18:08:19 <zbigniew> you remind me of call-with-values
18:12:13 <foof> them's fightin' words!
18:12:22 <Elly> mmm, call-by-need
18:12:57 <pumpkin> how about call-by-youneverknowwhenitmightcomeinhandy
18:14:04 <Elly> call-by-dwim
18:15:30 <chandler> call-by-loud-whistle-and-waving-hands
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18:37:28 <klutometis> you guys forgot: call-by-it's-dangerous-to-go-alone!-take-this.
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18:46:17 <klutometis> incubot: i apologize in advance for worshipping on the altar of reddit, that hideous and formidable idol
18:46:21 <incubot> I think they've been worshipping at the altar of Java (just like everyone else) for a long time now.
18:46:28 <klutometis> no shit
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18:56:55 <danking> So, in Intermediate Student Language (PLT) I attempt `(apply and (list true true))` and the REPL tells me "and: found a use of `and' that does not follow an open parenthesis."  Now, I'm curious why this doesn't work when (apply + '(1 2 3)) does work.
18:57:38 <danking> I think (andmap identity (list true true)) replicates the same functionality, but I'm still curious why the apply method doesn't work
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18:58:05 <Riastradh> AND names a special operator, not a variable.
18:58:50 <Riastradh> Special operators may be used only, as the term suggests, in operator positions, i.e. `following an open parenthesis'.
18:59:30 <danking> Riastradh: And + does not name a special operator?
18:59:41 <korvin> nope
18:59:51 <Riastradh> Correct: + names a variable.
18:59:53 <korvin> just a procedure
19:00:47 <danking> So is AND similiar to cond and other syntactic forms?
19:01:01 <Riastradh> That's right.
19:01:21 <danking> Alrighty.  Thanks Riastradh and korvin
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19:02:38 <korvin> danking . you may write a simple macro `(macro-apply term xs)'
19:03:20 <korvin> and use it with special forms
19:04:02 <Riastradh> What would this macro do, korvin?
19:05:11 <korvin> Riastradh . just (define-macro (macro-apply term xs) `(,term ,@xs))
19:05:51 <korvin> Riastradh . may be there is a standard macro like this in plt, I don't know =)
19:06:13 <Riastradh> Ugh!  Please don't espouse the use of DEFINE-MACRO.
19:06:36 <Riastradh> So how precisely would this MACRO-APPLY help danking?
19:07:25 <cel> proper way to split a string in words? (mzscheme)
19:07:35 <Riastradh> What are `words', cel?
19:07:39 <korvin> Riastradh . may be it would be usefull to him. =\
19:08:00 <cel> Riastradh : i mean, taking care of punctuation, question marks...
19:08:15 <Riastradh> What would, say, (LET ((X (COMPUTE-ME-A-LIST))) (MACRO-APPLY AND X)) expand to, korvin?
19:08:16 <korvin> Riastradh . I don't know how to make chicken be able to use define-syntax =/
19:08:29 <Riastradh> Either upgrade to Chicken 4 or use the `riaxpander' egg.
19:08:36 <cel> tried a regex like \\w+ but misses a lot of times
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19:09:18 <danking> Thanks for the suggestion korvin, I'm flattered by your perception of my understanding of PLT, but macros are still a foggy cloud that I can't seem to grapple.
19:09:23 <danking> =P
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19:11:12 <korvin> Riastradh . ok
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19:31:29 <jlongster> langmartin: did I send you the right .tex files?
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22:08:46 <Elly> whee, parentheses
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22:33:56 <offby1> wee parentheses -> 
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