00:02:31 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has joined #scheme 00:09:52 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 00:13:10 -!- wingo [n=wingo@235.Red-88-0-165.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:13:21 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:15:33 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 00:15:49 saccade [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 00:23:38 -!- dysinger [n=tim@c-98-246-172-196.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:30:19 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:59 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 00:32:32 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-179-119.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:54:17 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 01:01:22 -!- jao [n=jao@85.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:04:19 jao [n=jao@147.Red-88-15-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 01:12:46 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-228.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:17:17 mbishop pasted "swap!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80257 01:17:47 whoops, wrong channel 01:18:39 -!- jao [n=jao@147.Red-88-15-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:20:14 jao [n=jao@13.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:14 incubot: SWAT! 01:22:18 I said hamster_s_, plural. One would be a waste, you want a whole rodent swat team :) 01:22:52 *sladegen* backs away. 01:23:57 pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:26 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:25:13 Help: can anyone point me to the right direction for creating a database in Dr.Scheme using first-class-functions 01:25:37 what 01:26:15 I need to create a database system in Scheme ... any advice on architecture .. it must use first-class functions 01:26:45 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-16-89.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:27:43 r5rs assoc 01:27:43 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_438 01:27:46 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5tz3qu 01:28:49 incubot: in memory DBs are all the rage... 01:28:52 If I were not ridiculously fatigued right now, I'd hop up and down with rage at you. 01:29:43 incubot: fatigued bot is unplayful bot. 01:29:45 My eyelids are *still* stinging, and, nearly two hours after I declared my fatigued state, it hasn't improved any. 01:40:05 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-13-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:43:21 how does r5rs assoc help me? 01:51:00 -!- jao [n=jao@13.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:51:11 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.208.138] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:54:33 jao [n=jao@179.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:20 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-228.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:03:41 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:17 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 02:11:08 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:12:39 -!- pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:13:21 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-2-41.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:17 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-56-215.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:20:36 -!- jao [n=jao@179.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:28:02 incubot: Europe's Herschel and Planck telescopes have blasted into space on an Ariane 5 rocket from Kourou in French Guiana. 02:28:05 SICP is no more about programming than astronomy is about using telescopes. :-) 02:28:36 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-13-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:39 incubot: The satellites are being sent into orbit to gather fundamental new insights into the nature of the cosmos. 02:28:42 if GPS satellites can handle relativistic effects, why not our watches? 02:29:08 incubot: Studies consistently show that spontaneous combustion is real; it is common; and it's a helluva lotta fun 02:29:11 Lotta evil floating around today. 02:29:21 jao [n=jao@37.Red-79-155-154.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:33:39 incubot: Easy wind 'cross the bayou today. 02:33:42 you have to be sure not to cross the streams--it would be bad. 02:33:44 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:36:00 incubot: Researchers say scheme flu has "full pandemic potential", spreading readily between people and is likely to go global in the next six to nine months. 02:36:03 poor documentation is pandemic to the software world. 02:37:27 incubot: where is that written? 02:37:29 code can be written in any editor but one needs a scheme compiler on hand I assume. 02:41:41 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #scheme 02:44:01 incubot: Thou waterest the ridges thereof abundantly: thou settlest the furrows thereof: thou makest it soft with showers: thou blessest the springing thereof. 02:44:04 a more practical question is - can you point me to any neat lisp web apps whose source is available? or have you heard of any springing up recently? 02:44:56 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.131.93] has joined #scheme 02:46:22 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:51 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #scheme 02:47:59 Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #scheme 02:52:17 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176200117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:48 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:54:15 Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #scheme 02:54:22 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-56-215.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:54:54 schristie [n=user@cpe-066-057-088-143.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:55:47 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-SIX-THIRTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:56:09 does anyone know how to make an FCGI interface for scheme? 02:56:51 -!- saccade [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:56:52 I've been trying for a while, but I'm having trouble getting scheme to work with c unix sockets inherited from the web server 03:01:06 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 03:01:55 is there a chatroom more specific to plt scheme or mzscheme? Or is this the right place? 03:03:39 this is the right place 03:03:40 alas 03:03:52 schristie: but you haven't said the magic word! 03:03:54 allow me. 03:03:56 HEY ELI 03:04:14 (actually "plt" and "mzscheme" are probably equally magic) 03:04:15 schristie: If you're using PLT you may want to use the PLT webserver. 03:04:30 that too 03:05:08 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:05:23 If you're forced to use Apache, you can still connect the two with mod_proxy, which will be more efficient than FCGI anyway because Apache spawns multiple FCGI connections. 03:05:38 arcfide [n=arcfide@rrcs-71-41-145-245.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:05:44 Good evening everyone. 03:05:53 Good morning someone. 03:06:11 Bad morning nobody 03:08:47 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 03:09:44 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176212162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:41 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:25:13 LobsterMan [n=LobsterM@host72-50.student.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 03:32:29 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-SIX-THIRTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:33:43 (accum (lambda (x y) (+ y (+ 1 x))) 0 (list 1 2 3 4)) can anyone tell me how the lambda is getting an x and y value? 03:34:45 foof: I'm afraid that I'm restricted to apache with no mod proxy 03:34:49 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-68-63-19-212.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:35:04 LobsterMan: "accum" passes them, presumably. 03:35:07 I'm not allowed to run network daemons on Dreamhost, but anything else goes 03:35:33 so in theory it would work fine if I had a decent fcgi interface 03:35:41 cgi won't work because it takes to long to load 03:35:57 There might be other options, but I haven't heard of them yet 03:36:16 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:37:52 offby1: Why is "eli" the magic word? 03:38:11 why not someone else? He doesn't seem to have answered yet 03:39:26 (define (accum proc init alist) 03:39:26 (if (null? alist) 03:39:26 init 03:39:26 (proc (car alist) (accum proc init (cdr alist))))) 03:39:27 that's accum 03:39:37 i don't see how it passes the x and y from one list though 03:39:58 schristie: eli is one of the PLT developers, and he's often here 03:40:03 ah 03:40:05 thanks for the info 03:40:13 CSdread____ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has joined #scheme 03:40:18 LobsterMan: well, it calls "proc", right? 03:40:41 LobsterMan: X seems to be the car of the list, and Y is the result of calling accum recursively on the rest of the list 03:41:38 offby1: do you have any idea how to access a filehandle/unix socket that was provided by the parent process in scheme? 03:41:59 schristie: nah, I heard your question earlier; I have no idea 03:42:06 er, the parent process isn't in scheme, but I'm trying to access the file handle in scheme 03:42:07 ok 03:42:12 thanks anyway 03:42:27 now, if the parent were considerate enough to make that socket be your program's standard input, then you could just read from (current-input-port) 03:42:32 but I assume that's not the case 03:42:56 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1.19/2008110600]"] 03:43:01 well in theory it is, but for some reason just calling read on that port isn't working 03:43:14 hmph 03:43:21 ah so it's just particular to this function then 03:43:29 well, "read" tries to read a complete s-expression. I suspect you want to read bytes instead. 03:43:33 schristie: you're using PLT? 03:43:40 rudybot: doc read-byte 03:43:41 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 03:43:46 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/Byte_and_String_Input.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._read-byte)) 03:43:55 interesting 03:44:01 "scheme sandbox"? 03:44:05 :) 03:44:10 rudybot: eval (expt 2 (expt 2 10)) 03:44:10 *offby1: ; Value: 179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805500963132708477322407536021120113879871393357658789768814416622492847430639474124377767893424865485276302219601246094119453082952085005768838150682342462881473913110540827237163350510684586298239947245938479716304835356329624224137216 03:44:22 nice 03:44:26 all hail 03:44:39 ? 03:44:54 I SAID, all hail!! 03:44:59 hail 03:45:07 Thank you. 03:45:27 -!- CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:45:33 schristie: speaking of eli -- he wrote the more interesting bits of rudybot. I did the grunt work. 03:45:37 rudybot: source 03:45:38 *offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot/tree/b2a7675b5cd211b30f566ba6aaace79485d02143 03:45:39 anyway, I think that trying to do a normal binary read on the input port doesn't work because of a difference in the way that sockets and streams work 03:45:47 hm 03:46:01 never done anything like that myself 03:46:36 for instance, we tried writing a simple shell script that just writes what comes in on standard in to a file, but it seemed to exit before anything was passed in 03:46:53 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 03:46:53 normally I would expect it to hang waiting for input if it was actually supposed to come in from somewhere else 03:47:23 so it must be coming in on standard in, but in a format not supported by shell's "read" function, whatever that is 03:48:15 what maid rudybot start saying "all hail"? 03:48:21 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has quit ["Client exiting"] 03:48:26 s/maid/made/ 03:48:56 The rumours that I am a mere sock-puppet are GREATLY EXAGGERATED 03:49:02 *offby1* nods gravely 03:49:04 incubot: hail mary 03:49:08 hail senator! 03:49:13 but "read" doesn't want _any_ format; it just wants bytes. 03:49:43 yes, but presumably a socket is a different data structure than a stream, so it doesn't know where to find them, or thinks it finds EOF first 03:49:44 schristie: you wouldn't have a _small_ and self-contained batch of code that reproduces the problem, would you? 03:50:03 eh, unless by "problem" you mean "does nothing whatsoever" 03:50:15 but there are lots of equivalent bits of code that do that 03:50:27 *offby1* rolls eyes 03:50:42 yes, but most of them cannot be reasonably expected to do something useful, whereas your code, presumably, can. 03:51:01 that's kind of why I'm having this problem in the first place ;) 03:51:04 Therefore: looking at those equivalent bits is unlikely to enlighten me as to your problem, whereas looking at _yours_ might. 03:51:14 not really 03:52:03 I have c code that works 03:52:23 but I don't know how to do it in scheme. I've tried a few things, but I have no idea if I'm even going in the right direction 03:52:47 basically: accept on file handle 0, read, and log to file 03:53:04 rename that with extension .fcgi and run via web browser 03:53:45 hm 03:54:09 part of the problem is that the c code will accept "0" as a valid socket name, whereas scheme expects a "socket" object, and chokes on 0 03:54:41 and since in theory this socket is create by the parent process before the fork/exec, I didn't create it myself and thus do not have a scheme socket object 03:55:04 and I don't know what the equivalent of the c "accept" function is in scheme, though I have found a few candidates 03:55:22 none of which seem to accept integers as file handles 03:55:34 rudybot: doc accept 03:55:35 *offby1: not found in any library's documentation: accept 03:55:37 pff 03:55:41 thought there might have been one 03:55:49 there is a socket-accept 03:55:55 but it expects a socket ;) 03:55:55 rudybot: doc tcp-accept 03:55:56 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/tcp.html#(def._((lib._scheme%2Ftcp..ss)._tcp-accept)) 03:56:20 yeah, well; if eli doesn't show up; ask on the mailing list. I'd be mildly surprised if it weren't possible. 03:56:23 yeah, I know about that one. Unfortunately, that's for tcp ports, whereas I'm using Unix domain bsd sockets 03:56:49 I think I've seen an fcgi interface done using the ffi, but I don't know how to use that either. 03:56:53 ok 03:56:54 ooooh 03:56:56 unix-domain sockets 03:57:05 coulda swore those acted like files 03:57:06 sorry if I didn't say that earlier 03:58:45 I just found this while looking up unix domain sockets again: http://beej.us/guide/bgipc/output/html/multipage/unixsock.html 03:58:52 seems pretty close to the c code I have 03:59:35 not that I could be sure - the FCGI code base is the worst c code I have ever seen 04:00:28 the thing is that the FCGI code doesn't actually call listen or bind, just accept 04:01:51 wt how 04:02:54 the socket was created by the parent process, and the code just calls accept on the pre-existing socket that is in theory bound to file handle 0 04:03:14 but I don't know how to convey that information to mzscheme 04:03:55 that's...that's... I wonder if you could drop privileges that way. 04:04:19 ? 04:04:33 oh 04:04:34 hmm 04:04:36 I don't know 04:04:44 No I think accept fails if you try to accept even if it's already listening on a privileged port. 04:05:09 not sure I understood that 04:05:59 Oh I'm just babbling. 04:06:09 Of course you can accept, after dropping privileges. No need to pass sockets to child processes at all. 04:06:21 -!- CSdread____ is now known as CSdread__ 04:07:27 Still that's one sneaky trick. It's because FCGI scripts have to work on stdin/stdout I guess, just like CGI. 04:07:50 yep 04:08:01 but I have no idea how I'm supposed to do that with scheme 04:09:00 You're trying to make a FCGI script in scheme? 04:09:05 yes 04:09:17 is that preternaturally foolish or something 04:09:43 did I miss the memo on the scheme docs "do not use for fcgi"? ;) 04:10:18 actually, I think the memo is on FCGI's code itself: "Do not implement this for any language except at your own risk" 04:10:36 it's some pretty bad c code 04:10:46 and not bad in a good way, bad in a bad way 04:11:37 No I was thinking you could read from current-input-port and write to current-output-port, and not worry about accepting on socket fd #0. 04:11:54 The C FCGI framework already handles all that ickiness. 04:12:05 But yeah seriously... look into mod-proxy. FCGI is crunk. 04:12:18 yes, they overrode all of the normal i/o functions 04:12:28 absolutely, but mod_proxy is not an option 04:13:38 any reason why...? 04:13:51 yes. Dreamhost doesn't support it ;) 04:14:08 I mean all I had to do to enable mod-proxy was put the load module directive in there. 04:14:20 Oh you've got...hosting...hm... 04:14:28 Do they support SCGI? :p 04:14:36 let me check 04:15:20 apparently not 04:16:07 Oh god... 04:16:20 That's the place that has the worst website ever isn't it 04:16:38 possibly... it's a bit hard to tell 04:16:43 the internet is... big 04:16:47 I mean seriously, what the heck is with the Tasmanian Devil it's like the most non-sequitur marketing ever. 04:17:07 yeah, that's new for today 04:17:14 I have no idea why they picked it 04:17:48 but the rest of their service is pretty good 04:17:58 they're vastly better than most shared hosting sites 04:18:10 and I am kind of abusing it by trying to run scheme there 04:18:25 but it will work as long as I don't run scheme as a network daemon 04:18:36 I tried that for a few days, but they sent me a warning ;) 04:18:41 I've heard bad things about Dreamhost... they're really better than most? 04:18:53 ok, better than the ones I've seen 04:19:04 they provide shell access, and pretty unrestricted use 04:19:19 Huh. 04:19:27 and they've got "unlimited" bandwidth and diskspace 04:19:41 I'm pretty sure it's true as long as you don't test it ;) 04:20:16 I also like their panel, though I don't really know how that compares to other services 04:20:33 on top of that, I got it for about 4 dollars a month 04:20:40 sorry, I sound like an ad don't I 04:20:52 say, I bet if I looked I could find a referral code ;) 04:21:12 Well, you can probably tcp-accept on file descriptor 0, you'll just have to write some FFI code to get a tcp-listener that works. 04:21:23 hmm 04:21:47 why tcp-accept? 04:22:18 I've found this library: http://web.media.mit.edu/~vyzo/mzsocket/doc/manual/index.html 04:22:26 but it doesn't seem to work much better 04:23:07 it looks closer to what I'm trying to do, but expects "socket" objects, so I don't know how to feed it current-input-port, or zero, or equivalent 04:26:14 I hate to run, but it's getting late over here 04:26:18 thanks for the help 04:26:34 line 2018 of mzscheme/src/network.c shows you how to build a "listener_t" structure 04:26:37 oh okay.. 04:26:45 maybe we'll be on simultaneously later 04:26:53 I am insterested in solving this 04:27:02 thanks ;) 04:27:28 -!- schristie [n=user@cpe-066-057-088-143.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:28:01 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:29:49 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:29:58 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 04:35:33 ugh... and the listener_t initialization looks particularly nasty... assigning the internal type of a scheme object after bytewise allocating it. 04:38:19 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:50:36 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Client Quit] 04:50:42 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:50:50 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #scheme 04:51:46 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@rrcs-71-41-145-245.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:59:19 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:04:40 -!- CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has quit [] 05:08:43 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 05:24:12 dixon [n=thomas@37.169.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:24:32 Hey guys, what's a good book to learn about scheme? 05:25:44 Quadrescence: See the topic. 05:25:52 I can't. :( 05:26:00 ? 05:26:06 I am using netcat 05:26:57 Quadrescence: /topic #scheme 05:27:41 /topic #scheme 05:27:47 ? 05:28:44 Can't I just be recommended a book instead of working through technical difficulties with my IRC client? 05:29:17 Are you sending every command through /privmsg #scheme ... ? 05:29:35 Or rather, privmsg #scheme :... ? 05:30:12 ATM, yes. >_< 05:30:26 so just send "topic #scheme" 05:30:38 topic #scheme 05:31:46 OK, so you're not manually writing the privmsg command every time, you've got some sed filter or something that prepends it automatically? 05:32:19 Oh, yeah, I'm using sed. I didn't mean I literally type privmsg... every time. 05:33:37 Then change the sed to strip the "/" off the beginning of the line, otherwise prepend the privmsg if the line doesn't begin with "/". 05:34:49 That would require me to recompile this [custom] version of netcat, since I do a system() call. 05:35:05 huh? 05:35:19 I don't use netcat and sed separately. 05:35:34 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 05:36:03 I am using a version of netcat which I edited to call sed to change the line entered after hitting enter. 05:36:21 e.g. perl -ape 's{^/}{}||$_="privmsg #scheme :$_"' | nc freenode.net ircd 05:36:44 It is an embedded C system() call. 05:36:59 You mean a function call, not a system call. 05:37:21 It is a function call, the function happens to be called `system' 05:37:29 hence the appended parentheses. 05:37:33 Err, right, sorry :) 05:37:47 toed [i=toad@unaffiliated/toed] has joined #scheme 05:38:11 But why not just use a separate sed w/ normal netcat? 05:38:19 Libster [n=libster@pool-71-179-182-181.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:15 Neophytos [n=johnsmit@unaffiliated/neophyte] has joined #scheme 05:39:20 foof: It's one of the few programs I carry on a usb drive between home and work, I guess. 05:39:25 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:40:48 Well, regardless, if you insist on hard-coding the sed commands in the C code you should really change it to allow manual /foo commands. 05:41:39 What are we talking aboot? 05:42:07 kilimanjaro: Quadrescence wants a good book on Scheme. 05:42:15 can someone teach me scheme for free? 05:42:40 kilimanjaro: and he can't /topic due to his netcat with set 'client' 05:43:02 how can i learn scheme for free? 05:43:22 Libster, I recommend SICP, the link is in the topic. 05:43:31 You don't use netcat+sed as your client, do you? 05:43:37 yes, why? 05:43:42 how do is ee the topic btw? 05:44:18 What makes you want to learn scheme? 05:44:30 oh i need to for my job 05:44:37 i told my boss i knew scheme so he would hire me 05:44:42 Libster: Learn haskell. 05:44:48 Ohh boy 05:44:59 lol there's no nads like monads 05:45:04 Neophytos: I hear Haskell is like C and Scheme I think. 05:45:05 is it like C++? 05:45:07 i know C+ 05:45:08 + 05:45:36 apples` [n=apples`@unaffiliated/apples/x-263923] has joined #scheme 05:45:37 Libster: Supposedly it allows you to overload the `;' operator. 05:46:10 aksdjflaksjdf [n=421a481a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:46:27 There is no `;' operator 05:47:03 Lol I am always scheming 05:47:04 It is syntax, it denotes that the rest of the line is a comment 05:47:23 Sometimes I scheme about disconnecting ppl 05:47:24 kilimanjaro: I mean in haskull 05:47:30 how do i do hello world in scheme? 05:47:32 Predicate [n=62796848@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:47:34 DCC SEND djaslkdfjlkasdjflkdjlfkjdlkfjdlkfj 05:47:35 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:47:45 aksdjflaksjdf: Fail? 05:47:57 stupid proxy doesn't allow \01 05:48:11 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #scheme 05:48:40 -!- apples` [n=apples`@unaffiliated/apples/x-263923] has left #scheme 05:48:46 anyway, bye 05:49:06 -!- aksdjflaksjdf [n=421a481a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 05:49:15 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 05:50:39 -!- Predicate [n=62796848@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 05:52:15 -!- Neophytos is now known as I_am_neo 05:52:56 -!- I_am_neo is now known as Neophytos 05:52:57 Alter658 [n=439f0563@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:55:33 Alter819 [n=439f2c8a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:55:34 -!- Alter819 [n=439f2c8a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:22 Alter819 [n=439f2c8a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:56:22 -!- Alter819 [n=439f2c8a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:34 Alter819 [n=439f2c8a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:56:35 -!- Alter819 [n=439f2c8a@ARennes-256-1-141-49.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:58 Fun times tonite 05:57:40 incubot: got any good scare quotes? 05:57:43 put the $1 in quotes too, just to be safe 05:57:59 hot dogs, only "$1" 05:59:28 sed -e 's/^\([^/]\)/\/privmsg #scheme :\1/;s/^.//;' 05:59:53 I had to think about it, but that's what you want. 06:00:14 Perl one-liners are so much simpler than sed, and more portable. 06:00:47 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.117.81] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:37 a-s [n=user@92.80.117.81] has joined #scheme 06:02:27 zbigniew: Does your last name start with Z? 06:03:16 -!- toed [i=toad@unaffiliated/toed] has left #scheme 06:05:43 ct2rips 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Uuuuund weg."] 11:20:18 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.54] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:21:18 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 11:26:59 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.54] has joined #scheme 11:35:25 and` [n=hufs4@ti0035a340-1467.bb.online.no] has joined #scheme 11:38:14 aLeSD [n=alex@161.72.27.220] has joined #scheme 11:45:02 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C430FE.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:47:05 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.54] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:47:09 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:49:05 ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0e126.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 11:49:38 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 11:53:16 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0e126.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:55:21 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.54] has joined #scheme 11:56:53 cracki [n=cracki@45-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 12:00:11 -!- attila_lendvai__ is now known as attila_lendvai 12:07:30 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 12:14:42 -!- dixon [n=thomas@37.169.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:17:15 lol there's no nads like monads <--- win 12:17:31 cause monads suck balls. 12:17:34 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-219-137.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!"] 12:19:03 Hehehehe. :-) 12:19:12 mornin cky :) 12:19:15 Heya! 12:28:25 -!- and` [n=hufs4@ti0035a340-1467.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:31:07 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 12:31:43 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:36:41 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 12:38:25 -!- `Peter [n=pk@chello080109097201.14.15.tuwien.teleweb.at] has quit [] 12:44:33 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 12:55:48 higepon341 [n=taro@FLH1Aip247.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:15:01 (Quadrescence : i'd assume that "Zbigniew" is a (polish) given name) 13:15:02 pants2 [n=hkarau@75-119-235-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 13:16:27 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:18:30 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-111.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 13:22:42 ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0e126.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 13:26:41 ski: me too. 13:26:59 elf: In reference to you referencing dixon, I agree. 13:27:45 m? 13:28:16 Erm, in reference to you referencing cky, who referenced dixon. 13:28:30 oh. 13:28:31 >_> 13:28:34 ah, that. sorry. 13:28:52 *lol* 13:30:39 -!- pants1 [n=hkarau@206-248-129-199.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:08 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 13:35:16 mrscheme [n=user@209.120.179.205] has joined #scheme 13:42:08 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 13:44:43 IceD^ [n=theiced@93.84.112.80] has joined #scheme 13:44:54 what's biggest possible number in scheme? 13:45:08 How much memory do you have? 13:45:11 (expt 2 7830457) - doesn't work while (expt 2 783045) works 13:45:55 Good work, just a few more steps in the binary search! 13:46:40 xwl [n=user@114.245.141.168] has joined #scheme 13:49:33 #t 13:49:38 oi 13:51:28 rudybot: eval (string-length (number->string (expt 2 783047))) 13:51:54 rudybot_: eval (string-length (number->string (expt 2 783047))) 13:51:55 mejja: your sandbox is ready 13:51:56 mejja: ; Value: 235721 14:01:42 hi 14:02:20 what's the difference between scheme, plt-scheme and mzscheme ? 14:03:26 rudybot_: eval (* 783047 (/ (log 2) (log 10))) 14:03:26 foof: your sandbox is ready 14:03:27 foof: ; Value: 235720.63501469343 14:04:31 hmm 14:04:39 is number->string exists? 14:04:46 as I wrote my own ;) 14:05:05 rudybot_: doc number->string 14:05:06 offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 14:05:11 offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/numbers.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._number-~3estring)) 14:05:31 aLeSD: mzscheme is a part of plt-scheme which is an implementation of the standardized language scheme 14:05:40 rudybot_: nick rudybot 14:05:41 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot__ 14:06:01 mrscheme: thanks 14:06:24 and (expt 2 783047) works 14:06:32 (expt 2 7830457) doesn't 14:06:53 mrscheme: drscheme is an interpreter ? 14:07:34 IceD^: I think there are a handful of integers in between those two. 14:07:58 about plt-scheme... 14:08:22 aLeSD: it probably has one, it compiles as well though 14:08:33 is there a way to have drscheme behave exactly as mzscheme? 14:08:53 i mean, to load the same exact libraries in the IDE as mzscheme has 14:08:55 strange ... I'm a c/c++ programmer 14:09:25 the Swindle, Pretty Big and all that different languages make everything confusing 14:09:59 -!- offby1 is now known as offby-laptop 14:10:18 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 14:10:23 *cky* raises an eyebrow when I hear people talk about "C/C++ programmers"...because to me, C and C++ are so different that I list them separately. :-P 14:10:36 cky, yeah 14:10:39 *IceD^* likes C 14:10:44 ok 14:10:50 -!- offby-laptop [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:10:53 i am a C/C++/Scheme programmer 14:10:57 since they are all the same thing 14:11:03 IceD^: I've done a fair bit of both C and C++ programming, I like them both...but nowhere as much as Scheme. :-) 14:11:04 *IceD^* hates C++ which is even more crappy than perl 14:11:12 IceD^: Oi! I like Perl too. 14:11:20 :-P 14:11:33 what can I do with scheme ? 14:11:35 *foof*  Perl 14:11:35 *offby1* calls the /me police on cky 14:11:36 Libster: *lol* 14:11:43 cky, poor boy :) 14:11:47 aLeSD: you can write programs with it 14:11:52 *offby1* nods gravely 14:12:01 ikaros [n=ikaros@e176230175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:12:10 *Libster* whips it out (schlong) 14:12:23 ok ... could I create a dbms ? 14:12:24 ... 14:12:27 *cky* raises an eyebrow at Libster 14:12:41 could I create a physic engine ? 14:12:58 aLeSD: sure, you could create a dbms in scheme ... possibly even more easily than you could create one in C. 14:12:59 aLeSD: No, but I bet you could make a great psychic engine! 14:13:11 *lol* 14:13:34 incubot: psionic engine for the lolcats! 14:13:37 do you like lolcats? 14:13:39 I mean I'm interested in fluxus ... that is a livecoding language based on plt-scheme 14:13:48 sure sure 14:13:48 aLeSD: you can write anything you'd write in the other languages, but you'll have to think differently 14:13:56 or ... better ... I don't know what fluxus is 14:13:58 incubot: not really, no. 14:14:01 Not on anything, really 14:14:16 and to anticipate the un-asked question: it's true that most schemes don't have libraries as extensive as, say, Java or even Python 14:14:28 incubot: we going out on that joke? 14:14:34 which means that something with func a but not func b will fail somewhere in the middle of func a, if the thing also needs func b. 14:14:39 mrscheme: could u explain me better please ? I'm looking to programming from c style 14:14:42 no, we do reprise of song; that help. 14:14:45 But not much, no. 14:15:08 aLeSD: are you saying that you want to program in Scheme using the same style that you are used to using in C? 14:15:15 no 14:15:19 Or are you saying that you're used to C, but want to learn the new different Scheme style? 14:15:38 offby1: I'm tring to understand scheme ... and I'd like to start with the right mind 14:15:42 ah ok 14:16:09 well, I'd get a decent book and a decent scheme. The PLT people have a couple of introductory books aimed at college freshmen, and (imho) a very nice Scheme 14:16:15 "How To Design Programs" is the book 14:17:01 actually, the PLT docs are good enough that you could probably learn a lot just by reading them and playing around 14:17:08 aLeSD: ya, HTDP is nice 14:17:17 and its online i think 14:17:39 would also recommend tinkering with Learn yourself scheme in fixnum days 14:18:05 aLeSD: http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/ 14:18:18 get rich quick scheme 14:18:21 GET IT? 14:18:30 it starts off slow though 14:19:09 aLeSD: and this is another good one, heh http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html 14:20:47 ok 14:20:52 I'm coding 14:21:04 are you sure you wanna learn scheme? it's a pretty crappy language imo 14:21:19 Libster: what do u mean ? 14:21:28 basically being garbage collected scheme has its own niches of application, but one can try perhaps by using scheme implementation tightly bound with C like Chicken... 14:21:29 I want use fluxus 14:21:30 well it's kinda for losers 14:22:26 all the scheme heroes wear pocket protectors, not like those python and ruby studs :) 14:22:27 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.68.144] has joined #scheme 14:22:35 Libster: I don't understand your point ... is it something like basic ? 14:22:41 MS Basic 14:22:58 aLeSD: no, i think he was just joking 14:23:23 ok ... in the end I want to use that stuff http://www.pawfal.org/fluxus/ 14:23:28 more like goblining. 14:23:42 it's 'I don't know what' to livecode 14:23:59 on the data flow coming from jack soundsystem 14:24:28 as I'm tring to experiment live video dj set on some raveparty .. I'd like to understand the stuff 14:24:48 I started in the lisp channel ... they told me to come here 14:25:03 is it the right start ? 14:25:24 sure, you'll wanna know about GL and whatever sound system fluxus uses as well 14:25:26 it looks cool though 14:25:29 the def of fluxus is : Extends PLT Scheme with graphical commands and can be used within it’s own livecoding environment or from within the DrScheme IDE. 14:26:55 mrscheme: and I think that something inside is in c++ so I could also code for the project 14:30:34 looks like core libfluxus is written in c++ and it's bound with FFI to PLT scheme. 14:31:17 -!- Libster [n=libster@pool-71-179-182-181.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["sleep"] 14:31:17 i.e. scheme serves as scripting language for primitives implemented in "C". 14:31:31 sladegen:that means that all the stuff in in c++ and scheme is used to call the functions ? 14:31:44 ok 14:31:46 *sladegen* nods. 14:31:51 like python 14:32:03 and c++ uses bunch of other libraries. 14:32:15 so I could use fluxus from python 14:32:22 mmm 14:32:38 I'lll learn scheme first 14:32:58 *aLeSD* switches to beginning student 14:33:18 aLeSD: i don't think so, as it is, unless you write bindings to in for Python. 14:33:33 that's probably what he was thinking 14:34:06 yes 14:36:34 aLeSD: you might as well learn PLT if you want to play with fluxus 14:37:22 and writing python bindings probably would take much more time than its worth 14:37:38 if you just want to get down and do cool things with it 14:37:38 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has joined #scheme 14:37:57 ok ... now I'm cofused 14:38:04 scheme != plt ? 14:38:33 plt adds more things to scheme 14:38:35 aLeSD: you should try reading those intro docs mentioned, if you really after quick syntax/semantics intro to scheme, the fixnum book might be the best place to start (it's part of PLT docs i think and may be a bit too PLT specific). 14:38:39 *sladegen* sighs. 14:38:40 I'm using drscheme and I had to chose a language ... what does it mean ? 14:38:42 scheme is a very minimalist spec 14:38:46 ok ok .... reading 14:38:59 aLeSD: there are many different implementations of the Scheme language; "PLT Scheme" is one of them. 14:39:06 aLeSD: for real scheme spec look for r5rs 14:39:15 r5rs cons 14:39:15 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_390 14:39:17 -rudybot__:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6pd7cx 14:39:38 ok 14:39:44 let's see 14:39:59 r5rs == ANSI C 14:40:06 community.schemewiki.org is good general resource. 14:40:12 PLT Scheme == STL 14:41:33 its a bit of a stretch, but kind of 14:41:33 if I learn scheme I will find a better job ? 14:41:42 not really, it's like different implementation of java, but because r5rs is very minimal (no module/library standard) each scheme implementation is an organism in and of itself. 14:41:43 plt is much more to scheme than the stl is to c++ 14:41:55 aLeSD: probably not with the job part =P 14:42:15 :) 14:42:20 well, if by better you mean higher paying 14:42:33 aLeSD: most probably no, but you surely will be better in your job. 14:42:53 i would kill to be payed for writing some interesting scheme, figuratively anyway, heh 14:43:38 rudybot__: nick rudybot 14:43:39 -!- rudybot__ is now known as rudybot___ 14:43:44 *crap* 14:43:47 lol, nice 14:44:11 I _thought_ I had that rigged up to reset its nick :-( 14:44:25 rudybot___: your growing! 14:44:25 sladegen: eh? Try "rudybot___: help". 14:44:41 incubot: give rudybot___ a help. 14:44:44 Really, if you give it a chance, you'll never go back 14:45:15 incubot: amen. 14:45:18 say Amen! 14:45:19 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:45:26 Amen! 14:45:38 rudybot___: nick rudybot 14:45:39 -!- rudybot___ is now known as rudybot 14:45:52 victory 14:46:05 incubot: are we talking about going black? 14:46:07 *whew* 14:46:08 yes, I'm having sympathy for the devil and painting a red door black. 14:46:41 That's just scary. 14:46:44 *offby1* has to close his eyes until the darkness goes 14:48:02 Weekend! 14:51:11 ok 14:51:34 I have 4 languages under PLT: MzScheme, includes R5RS 14:51:48 Graphical (MrED, includes MzScheme) 14:52:02 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.68.144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:52:07 Pretty Big (includes MrEd and advanced studddd......) 14:52:13 Expander 14:52:17 and (module...) 14:52:48 I imagine that plt-scheme doesn't exists 14:52:55 ejs [n=eugen@117-144-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 14:52:58 i think most use module 14:53:36 aLeSD: It'll be much better if you install a newer PLT version. 14:53:44 lol 14:53:46 ok 14:54:23 It sounds like you have something pre-v4, and we're now up to 4.1.5 (and 4.2 is coming out soon). 14:54:54 -!- IceD^ [n=theiced@93.84.112.80] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:55:32 eli: did you ever talk to the guy last night who was trying to do FCGI from scheme? 14:55:54 offby1: No, I'm reading the log now. 14:56:06 I actually slept for the whole night. 14:56:09 *gasp* 14:56:12 Kind of a new experience. 14:56:39 Is the mini-eli on vacation? 14:57:12 No -- the mini-eli is already at an age that I'm staying night up to hack, not to maintain. 14:58:58 offby1: For that kind of advice neilv would be much more effective, I think. 14:59:55 -!- raikov [n=igr@216.64.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:01:48 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:03:07 oho 15:03:11 I use gnome , I have guile 15:03:15 being the web-server guy 15:04:37 eli: hm -- http://pre.plt-scheme.org/installers/ offers me binary installers for both "Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex". Given that I'm running Jaunty, which is the right choice? 15:04:59 *offby1* suspects that plain old "Ubuntu" is designed for some version that's even older than Intrepid, but ... 15:05:08 offby1: I have absolutely no idea. 15:05:35 offby1: The "interpid" machine is owned by a guy (Sam TH) who tells me when it's update and the new name to put for it. 15:05:38 offby1: i know you wanna compile it, do it! 15:05:51 offby1: The other machine is some department machine, and I don't know what version it is. 15:05:56 leppie: bleah 15:06:18 I _used_ to build from svn, but that takes a ridiculously long time, what with all the scribbling 15:06:20 offby1: The best would be if I had a way to ask the machine which version it's running -- but so far nobody has given me any way to do that. 15:06:30 ssh box cat /etc/issue 15:06:33 that's how I do it 15:06:37 also ldb_base --something 15:06:43 s/ldb/lsb/ 15:07:00 hm 15:07:12 lsb_release. 15:07:26 The "interpid" machine sez: Ubuntu 9.04 15:07:29 yay 15:07:39 i must say I am very impressed with Ubuntu's upgrade path 15:07:40 that's new. But that's not "intrepid"; that's "Jaunty" 15:07:45 leppie: I'm not. 15:07:57 offby1: The other machine says: Ubuntu 8.04.2 15:08:00 it went extremely smooth for me :) 15:08:01 leppie: my desktop machine has refused to put the display into graphics mode ever since I upgraded. 15:08:18 eli: could you change the word "Intrepid" to "Jaunty" in the web site? 15:08:25 just run the xsetup again, I had the same issue with VBox 15:08:27 offby1: BTW, you can avoid the full setup-plt, as I just posted this morning on the mailing list. 15:08:29 or, ideally, to "Jaunty (9.04)" 15:08:40 eli: oho, haven't read yet today 15:08:43 unless you use 'special' drivers 15:08:51 offby1: Run `make plain-install' and then you can run setup-plt yourself, like give it `-D' to avoid the doc build. 15:09:08 offby1: re the machine name I'll ask him now. 15:09:35 eli: thanks 15:09:49 leppie: see, that's the thing -- I never know if I'm using "special" drivers. 15:10:17 it's an awful lot of effort to determine if I've got hardware that "ought" to run Linux properly. It disappoints me that that's still the case, here in the 21st Century 15:10:59 your hardware has to be pretty exotic nowadays for Linux to not at least support it partially 'out of the box' 15:11:11 *shrug* 15:11:15 what video card you have? 15:11:19 I have no idea 15:11:35 well. 15:11:40 that's not quite true. I have a dim memory. 15:11:46 some Intel on-the-motherboard thing 15:11:47 CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has joined #scheme 15:12:15 it's a _perfectly ordinary_ Dell box; not something I built myself or anything like that. 15:12:19 bought it mail-order. 15:12:22 those work AFAIK, it uses the driver that comes with X, maybe not included with latest ubuntu? 15:12:28 Six years old; worked fine up until now 15:12:40 nah, the driver is present; it just doesn't work. I opened a bug on lanuchpad. 15:12:48 if you're curious I'll dig up the URL 15:12:53 just run the X setup again, not sure what ubuntu has 15:12:58 tried that. 15:13:02 tried "sudo X -configure" 15:13:05 ahh k 15:13:22 I'm 99.99% sure it's a real bug and not pilot error 15:13:38 offby1: lspci from a terminal 15:13:46 aLeSD: been there; done that 15:13:48 six years old? maybe they dropped the hardware ID from the db :) 15:13:59 what's your card ? 15:14:13 aLeSD: he said intel onboard 15:14:27 which distro are u using ? 15:14:30 what CPU you have on it? 15:14:31 leppie: that's hardly a unique specifier though... 15:14:33 but anyway -- that box's upgrade process _appeared_ to go smoothly, up until X wouldnt' start. On my other box -- a laptop -- the upgrade process kept failing, and I had to do manual surgery to get it to complete. Once it finished (after hours of struggle) it works OK, although the speaker-volume-control buttons on the keyboard no longer work. 15:14:51 aLeSD, leppie: lemme find the bug report. 15:15:59 offby1: which distro ? 15:16:05 and paste: uname -a 15:16:37 ah ... 15:16:47 I forgot a stuff ? 15:16:50 HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 15:16:53 what r u tring to do ? 15:17:03 :) 15:17:32 aLeSD: he's getting the bug report that'll have all that info 15:17:37 and he said ubuntu 15:17:44 yeah, and I'm having trouble 15:17:49 hold on even more 15:17:55 offby1: black screen on 9.04 ? 15:18:20 or simply slow graphics on 9.04 ? 15:18:29 no screen! 15:18:36 totally black 15:19:02 lol ... I had the same problem here 15:19:17 if u are using 9.04 try activating -... what's the name 15:19:21 ... UXA .... 15:19:40 leppie r u from france ? 15:20:01 what makes you think that? 15:20:03 aLeSD, leppie: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/367039 15:20:55 offby1: AccelMethod" "UXA" in device section in xorg.conf 15:21:03 why cant MS fix notepad to handle different line endings? 15:22:00 leppie: I asked offby1 about hi's distro and I answered me : aLeSD, leppie: lemme find the bug report. I searched leppie in google .... no distro 15:22:18 *aLeSD* lol ... my english sucks 15:22:20 heheheh 15:22:22 offby1: so is it X or before X too? Not being clear about such things is a good way to not get any responses which is hard enough with ubuntu IME anyway. 15:22:46 *leppie* is a french distro? 15:23:01 if you google for leppie you will find me :) 15:23:11 leppie: no she's a french girl in myspace 26 years old 15:23:22 nope im not french, south african 15:23:44 im the leppie with most hits, the rest are copy cats from the last decade 15:23:50 my nick is from 94 15:24:16 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:24:40 OMG I got a twitter? 15:24:58 incubot: oops, I think a made a twitter 15:25:01 a friend of mine is collecting twitter-sized shell scripts that do something funky 15:26:20 hehe it's interesting to google for yourself every 6 months or so :) 15:32:28 *cel* hits leppie 15:32:44 hkBst: I don't understand your question 15:33:24 from the log it looks like it starts, just no output from video? 15:33:45 offby1: well, you mention grub and bootsplash. That all runs before X is even started, so... do you see the splash or the kernel boot messages if you disable the splash? 15:34:08 hkBst: I don't remember 15:34:20 blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.208.138] has joined #scheme 15:34:57 plenty feedback you got there offby1 :( 15:35:45 hkBst: I think I understand what you mean, now; I've added a (hopefully) clarifying comment. Thanks. 15:35:58 Lilarcor [n=Lilarcor@57.sub-97-164-229.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 15:37:26 hehe, here is an interesting search result: Kfaf Nigeria Picks Up Bong Iron Scheme 15:37:52 incubot: Queen says "no" to pot-smoking FBI agents 15:37:53 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 15:37:55 smoking marijuana or ... how do you use the marijuana? 15:38:25 anyone tried the geiser mode on emacs for editing scheme code? 15:38:36 A little more information has surfaced about a program by the Kkaf Nigeria Ltd. industrial group to rehabilitate the Bong iron mines in Liberia. 15:39:08 maybe thats where they get the iron to make the tools to make the bongs with 15:39:26 and they have a scheme 15:40:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 15:44:37 aluminum bongs - 2nd degree burns of the limbs best prevention against unauthorized inhalations. 15:46:56 i think i know what you mean :) 15:52:50 samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:52:54 offby1: Yeah, you were right (as you probably knew). 15:53:12 offby1: samth just didn't tell me about the upgrade. 15:53:20 eli: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames 15:53:45 Yeah, got it. 15:53:58 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 15:55:23 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit ["gotta reboot again :-("] 15:55:57 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:00:13 -!- aLeSD [n=alex@161.72.27.220] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:00:29 -!- ASau` [n=user@host195-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off"] 16:01:58 rotty` [n=user@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 16:06:16 -!- higepon341 [n=taro@FLH1Aip247.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:21:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:22:13 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:22:36 -!- Lilarcor [n=Lilarcor@57.sub-97-164-229.myvzw.com] has quit ["The Lord of Murder Shall Perish."] 16:29:30 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 16:30:31 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:39 HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 16:33:18 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:56 shot in the dark here, but does anybody know if DrScheme can handle non-integer font sizes for the editor? 16:34:00 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:27 When I edit the prefs file to use size 9.5 DrScheme uses 11 (the default) instead. 16:35:06 :( 16:35:20 metasyntax|work: At the API level you can specify font size in points or in pixels. 16:35:32 metasyntax|work: but that would be better asked on the list. 16:45:39 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:59:49 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 17:02:34 dysinger [n=tim@173.8.205.234] has joined #scheme 17:04:17 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:12:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@117-144-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:18:06 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit ["aunt jemima is the devil!"] 17:23:11 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 17:23:59 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:34:10 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0e126.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:43 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-178.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 17:38:21 -!- mrscheme [n=user@209.120.179.205] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:38:51 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 17:40:35 -!- npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Client Quit] 17:41:08 lowlycod1r [n=x@DNab43895c.Stanford.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:41:10 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053A47.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:40 -!- lowlycod1r [n=x@DNab43895c.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:38 HG` [n=wells@xdslfq139.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 17:45:12 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:45:58 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:46:04 rudybot [n=luser@201.238.193.36] has joined #scheme 17:46:48 -!- kniu [n=kniu@HUBBABUBBA.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47:20 -!- dysinger [n=tim@173.8.205.234] has quit [] 17:47:40 ejs [n=eugen@81-50-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:25 I would like to thank zeus for hosting me 17:50:39 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:55:24 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [No route to host] 18:03:32 dysinger [n=tim@67.102.173.168] has joined #scheme 18:11:14 qmrw [n=nghidav@jaene.org] has joined #scheme 18:11:55 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:21:57 wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has joined #scheme 18:26:21 lowlycod1r [n=x@DNab43898a.Stanford.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:29:21 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfq139.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:55 rudybot: thanks are not needed, just sacrifice a young goat 18:31:56 eli: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 18:32:02 rudybot: I SAID -- JUST SACRIFICE A YOUNG GOAT 18:32:02 eli: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 18:32:12 Ah, fageddet 18:36:02 -!- wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:36:39 npe [n=npe@91.179.94.32] has joined #scheme 18:36:47 wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has joined #scheme 18:38:01 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49:38 -!- wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:17 wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has joined #scheme 18:50:39 -!- wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:51:18 wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has joined #scheme 18:53:53 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:55:23 saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:56:00 -!- lowlycod1r [n=x@DNab43898a.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:58:52 jao [n=jao@122.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:59:08 -!- wy [n=wy@66.194.68.209] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:54 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:09:58 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:18:14 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:18:41 ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.11] has joined #scheme 19:20:18 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.54] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:32:31 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:37:26 arcfide [n=arcfide@cpe-70-113-217-213.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:47:08 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C4347E.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 19:49:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@81-50-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:52 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-98-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 19:57:10 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 19:59:19 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 19:59:34 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1.19/2008110600]"] 20:08:08 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:08:23 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@ti0056a341-0392.bb.online.no] has joined #scheme 20:10:16 -!- dysinger [n=tim@67.102.173.168] has quit [] 20:10:37 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:10:47 mrscheme [n=user@67.110.140.180.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #scheme 20:15:07 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 20:19:10 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:23:11 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:23:12 Hydr4 [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:23:16 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:24:13 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-98-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:24:44 -!- xwl [n=user@114.245.141.168] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:26 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #scheme 20:34:07 -!- CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:43 CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has joined #scheme 20:35:18 ikaros_ [n=ikaros@f051018098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:51:35 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:51:47 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@e176230175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:11 benny99 [n=benny@p5486DD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:58:48 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.208.243] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:59:39 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C4347E.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:01:41 -!- mrscheme [n=user@67.110.140.180.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:04 what is the best/shortest macro for transforming something like (def mul x y : (* x y)) into (define (mul x y) (* x y)) ? 21:08:00 kniu [n=kniu@65.196.126.11] has joined #scheme 21:08:03 (define-syntax def (syntax-rules (mul x y : *) ((def mul x y : (* x y)) (define (mul x y) (* x y))))) 21:08:10 Anything else you want transformed? 21:11:06 mmc [n=mima@cs138007.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 21:12:22 Riastradh, :p -- 'like' 21:12:33 `Like' in precisely what respects? 21:12:55 -!- peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:13:17 "aliasing" function definition with (def "name" "vars" : "does") 21:13:40 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:27 geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:19 writing a macro that transforms e.g. (def mul (x y) : (* x y)) to (define (mul x y) (* x y)) is easy, but I don't see an as simple macro that transforms (def mul x y : (* x y)) :( 21:21:39 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 21:22:49 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 21:23:00 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:52 Does the word `alias' mean anything in particular here, or is it mere coincidence that MUL happens to mean the same as * for two arguments? 21:24:55 Are you willing to limit yourself to two parameters (as I presume the X Y of (DEF MUL X Y ---) mean), furthermore, or do you perhaps want to an arbitrary number of names preceding a colon (which is, incidentally, also a name, so you would exclude some names for parameters)? 21:27:06 ah - name is supposed to be single symbol -- like (define (name ...) ...) takes a single symbol -- and vars are allowed as many as functions could take variables, i.e. 0 to 'as many as I like' 21:28:05 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 21:29:19 If your Scheme system's SYNTAX-RULES supports tail patterns, this can be done relatively straightforwardly: (define-syntax def (syntax-rules (:) ((def name parameter ... : body) (define (name parameter ...) body)))) 21:29:30 If not, this becomes somewhat hairy. 21:30:52 Riastradh: Assuming that he wants any number of expressions in the body, doesn't the above break if there is more than one expression after the colon? 21:31:24 Riastradh, thanks -- guess mit-scheme doesn't support them 21:31:27 I'm making lots of guesses about what benny99 intends. 21:31:37 That is correct: MIT Scheme does not support tail patterns. 21:33:14 Riastradh, 99.9% chance that your guesses are right I guess :p 21:34:20 why not Riastradh ? 21:34:41 Why not what? 21:35:05 why MIT Scheme does not support tail patterns ? 21:35:15 X-Scale, it's not part of R5RS 21:35:18 Because nobody implemented it. 21:35:28 It isn't, benny99 ? 21:35:35 Indeed it is not. 21:35:39 X-Scale, according to 'google', no :p 21:36:00 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-46/srfi-46.html <- 21:36:48 benny99: check page 14 of R5RS, section 4.3.2 21:37:21 What is a `tail pattern', X-Scale? 21:39:13 ok Riastradh...not what I was thinking they were...SRFI 46 clarifies it 21:39:30 but they are part of R6RS ? 21:39:46 I dont know, benny99. 21:40:47 Well, it still isn't that hairy to get around that lack of tail patterns. 21:40:57 Just recursion over the parameters, right? 21:41:11 -!- bpalmer [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #scheme 21:41:18 Collected into an intermediate form and then used in the final definition? 21:41:21 ypsilon supports them and http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs/r6rs-Z-H-14.html#node_sec_11.19 reads as if they were 21:42:08 Yes, arcfide. That's considerably hairier (some ten times the size of the macro with tail patterns). 21:43:15 (and I basically wondered whether I understood ellipsis so far) 21:47:12 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:51 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.81.115] has joined #scheme 21:50:29 -!- kniu [n=kniu@65.196.126.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:54:55 Modius_ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #scheme 21:56:45 Riastradh, thank you again; I'm off 21:57:51 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486DD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:00:56 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-248.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:01:47 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-1-79.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 22:04:29 -!- npe [n=npe@91.179.94.32] has quit [] 22:05:33 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:58 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14:15 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.37] has joined #scheme 22:14:19 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:16:39 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:17:17 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-5-39.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:05 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-248.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:07 drwhen [n=d@66-230-84-151-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #scheme 22:28:55 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:34:11 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #scheme 22:35:18 hello all 22:41:36 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:45:45 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:47:52 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs138007.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:48:20 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 22:48:57 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:51:29 Hello. 22:53:54 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@ti0056a341-0392.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:07 waving 23:00:09 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053A47.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:02:12 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 23:12:30 -!- jao [n=jao@122.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:53 synthase [n=synthase@c-68-63-19-212.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:16:44 mib_6dihl8p4 [i=864a6478@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cb4d7be766ce145a] has joined #scheme 23:17:18 If I have: (define var 'hello) ... is there any way I can use var to make a call like: (hello 5) ? 23:17:51 use an association list 23:18:41 or use eval 23:18:44 any example ? 23:18:49 (eval `(,var 5)) appears to work for me 23:19:17 bad elly, no biscuit 23:20:14 what did I do wrong? :O 23:20:21 doesn't seem to be working for me 23:20:23 eval ;) 23:20:29 zbigniew: there is nothing wrong with eval! 23:20:50 nothing wrong with kicking puppies either, right 23:20:50 mib_6dihl8p4: 23:20:57 eval: (define hello display) 23:21:00 er 23:21:09 what's the magic to talk to the eval bot? I forgot :( 23:21:16 > (define hello display) 23:21:21 no, evidently not 23:21:23 oh well 23:21:39 mib_6dihl8p4: (define hello display) (define abc 'hello) (eval `(,abc 5)) <--- works as expected 23:21:45 ah it works ((eval var) 5) 23:21:57 -!- maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:22:10 and thus begins a young man's journey to the dark side 23:22:15 eval is not the dark side 23:22:19 and I'm not a young man :P 23:22:28 i'm talking about mib_6dihl8p4 23:22:32 oh, okay 23:22:38 how do you know mib_6dihl8p4 is a young man? :O 23:22:55 the line noise is a dead giveaway 23:23:01 ah, I see 23:23:06 fair enough! 23:23:22 maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #scheme 23:23:59 I am a young man ... atleast young man for Scheme 23:24:11 I see 23:24:29 thank you for your help :) 23:25:06 zbigniew: why is eval the dark side, pray tell? 23:25:22 I use eval eval eval 23:25:37 that sounds dangerous 23:26:45 Elly: normally you can do what you want without eval; it's one of those tools that's better used only when you know when not to use it 23:26:53 ahh :P 23:27:10 mib_6dihl8p4 didn't give any context for the use of eval 23:27:29 zbigniew: in my case, how would I do what I want without eval 23:27:53 well, I don't know what you want, nor if this is homework... you gave a really contrived example 23:28:06 normally an alist is the first stop 23:28:17 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 23:30:02 well, this is not homework ... I'm trying to build a database system, running different ideas for different reasons ... one thing that popped up in my mind was how would this be possible 23:30:09 ok 23:30:13 well, if you just want a variable to hold a function, you can do that normally 23:30:19 (define x display) and so on 23:31:05 mib_6dihl8p4: often what you want is simply to associate symbol names with procedures 23:31:23 well, maybe I should explain why I thought of doing it this way 23:31:30 sure, please do 23:31:32 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:34 yeah, good idea 23:32:12 I don't know the "correct name" for the design ... but I understood it as a way to use class in Scheme (I have read that Scheme has full set of functions for classes,etc) 23:32:36 that's correct; plt scheme has a class system, and I think some of the others do too 23:32:44 My professor (btw, we're using The Little Schemer and the Seasoned Schemer, and PLT-Scheme) showed us an example of a "bank-account" 23:32:45 scheme itself does not, but you can implement them with macros 23:33:48 to give an idea of how it worked, one could do: (define john (bank-account 50)) and that create's a bank account "object" for john ... that object has functions which can be called such as (john (deposit '100)) 23:33:59 I'm using the same approach to build a simple DBMS 23:34:04 ah, I see 23:34:28 if you make that: (john '(deposit 100)), you have a simple meta-object protocol going on :) 23:36:27 so once you have (define uni (database 4) [which creates a db with 4 tables, namely table1 .. table4] ... and doing (uni (table4 (add-col 'id))) ... I wanted to do something what SQL does ... something like (use uni) and then (use-table table-4) ... then a function call like (add-col 'id) would know that which object's table get's a new column 23:36:36 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:59 If you have a better idea for the architecture, I'd be glad to hear it... 23:37:16 mib_6dihl8p4 sure is anonymous 23:37:21 Are you sure that's (john (deposit '100))? 23:37:58 that's rather odd... 23:38:06 I'm actually at the university right now, they block irc connections, using www.mibbit.com ... :) 23:38:14 I thought it was ... am I mistaken ? 23:38:37 heh 23:39:07 *offby1* suppresses a rant about idiot bureaucrats 23:39:12 *Elly* likes (john 'deposit '(100)) kind of... 23:39:41 the john looks like (lambda (msg args) ((lookup self msg) args)) 23:39:51 was it eliot's john i saw? 23:39:59 hm? 23:41:15 mib_6dihl8p4: it seems like it would be close to one of Elly's suggestion or to ((john 'deposit) 100) 23:41:29 -!- CSdread__ [n=danielf@209-188-116-183.taosnet.com] has quit [] 23:42:40 I can't see how you would mutate the state inside john with your approach 23:43:08 look at Exercise 3.41: http://lawfulsamurai.blogspot.com/2009/01/sicp-section-34-concurrency-time-is-of.html 23:43:12 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/pvwgqe 23:43:48 Yeah, that's what I said, ((john 'deposit) 100). 23:44:30 Ben Bitdiddle is a fucker, by the way 23:45:26 hehe, the professor used that example in class, so I figured I can build the db in a similar way 23:45:30 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:45:49 you can, but I'm not sure it's wise :P 23:46:08 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:46:16 a pretty bad picture of how I see it (in my mind): http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2971/scheme.png 23:46:34 any advice on a wise design ? 23:47:04 alists and ordinary lists 23:47:10 actually, vectors 23:48:06 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:49:18 vectors? hmm, never used em 23:49:25 Elly: hence his name 23:49:45 zbigniew: yeah 23:50:13 My Professor's advice: "Can you find anything with Google on using first class functions to implement databases?" 23:50:41 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:52:26 hm 23:53:09 does the database have to be persistent? 23:53:25 does it have to be fault-tolerant? to what kind of faults? 23:54:14 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-1-79.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:54:22 xwl [n=user@114.245.138.109] has joined #scheme 23:54:47 Elly pasted "objects?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80318 23:54:54 there are actually no requirements ... It's completely upto me .. the only thing that the professor requires is using first-class functions and their features 23:56:15 Elly, I get: reference to undefined identifier: make-hash 23:56:30 are you using PLT scheme? 23:56:34 if not, that's unlikely to work :) 23:56:47 mib_6dihl8p4, well, if you want to go the full way, you're going to reimplement mnesia or one of its successors :) 23:56:54 you can hack it to use the right primitives for your scheme though 23:57:03 Yes, specifically MrEd including MzScheme 23:57:08 huh 23:57:17 and you tried that in mzscheme and it didn't work? 23:57:22 which version of mzscheme do you have? 23:57:33 correct 23:57:38 ahhh, I don't know how to check 23:57:43 when it starts up, it prints a banner 23:58:01 whichever comes with DrScheme v3.72 23:58:20 to hazard a guess, mzscheme 372 23:59:47 that's so vague, it's like throwin someone into a pool and saying swim, but you have to hold this wheel and wiggle your ears.