00:00:19 -!- raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10:15 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:19:54 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@217.255.233.220] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:28:21 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 00:29:51 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:30:47 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-186-237-111.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:35:21 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:39:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:39:43 Hello everyone. 00:39:49 allo allo 00:40:06 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-72-21.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 00:42:54 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 01:03:57 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-102.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 01:11:23 badtruffle [n=pumpkin@Aeropuerto.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:11:25 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:12:02 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 01:16:49 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 01:19:01 -!- badtruffle is now known as copumpkin 01:32:50 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 01:41:50 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 02:12:15 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:14:09 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 02:20:21 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:27:59 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@66.199.252.10] has joined #scheme 02:27:59 02:27:59 -!- names: ccl-logbot sphex MichaelRaskin saccade bombshelter13_ synthase copumpkin Adamant arcfide mreggen tarbo r0bby zbigniew kspaans Hydr4 bsund Judofyr xwl_` a-s` brandelune gweiqi amoe X-Scale dfeuer zbrown meanburrito920_ bsmntbombdood jld aardvarq kniu Modius_ synx Nshag mejja Deformative ASau tessier_ hadronzoo tltstc ineiros ada2358 jeremiah Quadrescence tttsssttt dstorrs joast ttmrichter ray kazzmir foof mbishop nemik ski bohanlon z0d AtnNn 02:27:59 -!- names: sphex_ cracki benny aspect elias` Adrinael dysinger_ eno sladegen cipher tjafk2 morphir specbot minion lisppaste amazon10x p1dzkl Arelius Poeir nothingHappens_ eli underspecified__ CaptainMorgan subversus rudybot offby1 araujo xian leppie metasyntax gnomon sad0ur rmrfchik pbusser2 Debolaz elf rumbleca XTL qebab pumpkin jlilly stepnem laz0r Leonidas bunz hiyuh Mr_Awesome certainty danking incubot saccade__ proq wastrel Qaexl inimino ecraven 02:27:59 -!- names: LobsterMan csmrFX0r peddie guenthr emma clog elmex yosafbridge tverwaes bkudria Mikoange1o glogic tizoc Khisanth etoxam Riastradh klutometis poucet tabe tessier Fade felipe sjamaan rotty tsuyoshi Caesium ski__ ski_ Elly mornfall fean rodge dlouhy nasloc__ duncanm 02:29:49 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-8-40.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:32:26 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:32:58 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 02:33:27 Lilarcor [n=Lilarcor@pool-71-126-184-191.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:33:53 -!- Lilarcor [n=Lilarcor@pool-71-126-184-191.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:34:42 hm 02:34:50 does anyone know a good way to generate random planar graphs? 02:35:40 hmm 02:35:53 I'm thinking about how to generate levels for a roguelike game :) 02:36:00 I can think of a really bad way 02:36:08 and the thing that occured to me is generating the level by making a planar graph and laying it out 02:36:50 I found a paper on it 02:36:55 although 02:37:00 it doesn't actually have to be planar 02:37:05 it's okay for corridors to intersect... 02:37:24 any thoughts on the more general problem? 02:37:42 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:27 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:39:35 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:41:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1.19/2008110600]"] 02:45:39 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:47:19 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-59.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:49:01 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.162.40] has joined #scheme 02:52:18 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:54:48 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:55:43 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:57:30 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:58:12 herdrick [i=43b9e9a4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6c7d1a926037e2d9] has joined #scheme 03:00:22 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:04:17 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:05:56 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:06:07 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:08:25 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@85.176.208.145] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:18 tjafk2 [n=timj@85.176.193.152] has joined #scheme 03:10:39 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-8-40.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:10:58 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-8-40.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:13:48 cads [n=max@76.122.89.218] has joined #scheme 03:16:38 copumpkin: url for the paper? 03:18:43 it turned out to not be what I thought it was 03:18:57 didn't mean to get your hopes up, sorry :) 03:21:07 rec.games.roguelike.development will likely be helpful 03:29:34 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 03:31:25 justeco [i=tim@66.39.162.178] has joined #scheme 03:41:27 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 03:46:58 wow, mzscheme uses 17MB of RAm sitting at the prompt 03:48:33 It takes 27MB of RAM for me <_< 03:53:14 5MB for Petite here, 6.9MB for Chez. :-) 03:53:17 It takes 7K of RAM if I make sure not to include "scheme/init" 03:53:28 oops 7MB my bad 03:53:35 I always get that column mixed up. 03:53:47 mzscheme -l "scheme/base" -i 03:54:01 Running my Descot server uses about 11MB on my server. 03:55:13 I'm not sure what scheme/init does for mzscheme. 03:55:27 Probably something terribly important. Seems to function without though. 03:57:07 "It re-exports the scheme, scheme/enter and scheme/help libraries, and it sets current-print to use pretty-print." 03:57:32 35MB for me, but mac's are memory hogs 03:58:51 The simple inclusion of -l scheme/base seems to cut the memory by at least 20 megabytes. Hm... 03:59:11 ... although my fetchmail replacement written in Chicken which has been running for a week now is only using 31MB. 03:59:19 aha yeah 03:59:28 (require scheme) brings in those 20 megabytes. 03:59:47 That's one thing scheme/init does. 04:00:05 *justeco* wants to learn scheme 04:00:21 hey neat foof, you wrote a fetchmail replacement too? 04:00:31 justeco: don't worry about it then. We're just fiddling with obscure stuff. 04:00:42 I wrote a whole MTA :) 04:00:44 worry about what? 04:01:02 You just want to... oh. justeco. 04:01:27 *synx* read that as "justeco just wants to learn scheme" 04:01:31 I was looking at chicken. And looking at Guile. And looking at PLT-scheme, which looks like fun. 04:02:04 plt is a good learning language. It's also pretty comprehensive. A bit uh... hefty though. It's what I use currently. 04:02:25 I dabbled with Common Lisp a bit a while ago and was like "Wow, I think I just gained 5 IQ points". 04:02:34 Elly: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Roguelike_Dev_FAQ#How_are_dungeons_generated.3F 04:02:36 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/d9ksto 04:02:52 justeco: Don't look at Guile! Avert your eyes! 04:03:00 Guile just kind of weirds me out. Chicken is fine too... probably better than plt if you can get with the module syntax. 04:03:31 better performing I mean. plt emphasizes correctness more, and doesn't have as many hackers working on it 04:03:50 foof: Oh? Guile didn't seem like an every-day scheme, but I got pretty interested in reading examples of using it as a scripting extension lang. 04:04:36 There's also MIT scheme... I only recommend that because many textbooks are designed with it in mind. Other people aside from me could tell you how useful it is or not. 04:04:43 synx: PLT has more hackers working on the core - basically only Felix touches the Chicken core. 04:05:25 I wish I had started with scheme... I actually got my first intro with Auto-Lisp. 04:05:28 sorry foof I was thinking about the modules, like that weird C parsing FFI they got, easyffi right? 04:05:47 I'm not sure I remember enough about C... 04:05:49 don't worry, scheme isn't all that different from lisp. 04:05:51 ... 04:05:58 Chicken has a lot of hackers working on libraries though. 04:06:05 *synx* gets stoned off stage 04:06:29 Isn't scheme Lisp? just like Common Lisp is Lisp? 04:06:33 yeah libraries. I try not to pay too much attention to the core of plt... it hurts my brain. 04:06:52 scheme is a specification for a kind of lisp. 04:06:53 I think more libraries than PLT, but quality is always debatable. 04:07:17 Not sure the FreeBSD port is up to date... 04:07:24 PLT is the only scheme I know with a HTTP/1.1 client library though foof :3 04:07:59 justeco: if lisp were an operating system, scheme would be the equivalent to POSIX 04:08:17 That wouldn't surprise me - it's very tempting to implement HTTP/1.0 support, notice that you can now communicate with every web server in existence, and then not bother with the extra features. 04:08:56 synx: is that a way of saying it is a smaller core spec? 04:09:15 that's true foof, but HTTP/1.1 does have some benefits that cannot be denied. Really though the simplest thing is to only implement HTTP/1.0 and proxy everything through squid. 04:09:38 PostgreSQL libs may be really helpful for me... 04:09:53 synx: That's for the server-side, no? 04:09:54 justeco: I'm trying to say scheme isn't any specific program, project or system. It's a series of rules and standards how to design such a system though. 04:10:25 synx: Oh, yeah. I know it is a defined lang with many implementations. Like C. 04:10:39 or Ada 04:10:41 No server side you probably want HTTP/1.1 straight from the server. proxying doesn't scale well to massive amounts of users. I mean client side. 04:10:47 Just so, justeco! 04:11:11 I came from python though, which largely only has one implementation. It was kind of confusing at first to have to choose. 04:11:21 Yeah, I do a lot of Ruby. 04:11:39 eww 04:11:41 any Rails? 04:11:44 No 04:11:54 lucky that 04:12:25 Yeah, I don't get why folks gush over it. 04:12:38 I had the pleasure of trying to get a rails app working once... found that it can only be run on a dedicated web server, not as a web application. 04:12:40 I have tried it. I gave it a chance. 04:12:56 synx: Well, no. That's not true. 04:13:16 I ussually run Rails apps by spawning them as a fastcgi process and then connecting lighttpd to them. 04:13:33 Yeah um... that's different I guess. 04:13:47 I meant using that... apache rails module...thing... ah don't worry about it. 04:14:10 But still, Rails is a pain to run compared to PHP. 04:14:20 heh 04:14:27 Too bad, too. PHP is a shit lang. 04:14:37 It really is. 04:15:06 What little web stuff I have done in Ruby has been CGI. 04:15:42 I do like nanoc, though. It "compiles" to static web files. 04:16:21 I got sick of database-driven dynamic sites. Get off my lawn! 04:17:08 Anyway, I needs me some more lispyness on the brain. 04:17:50 Are any of those MIT books worth the money? 04:20:07 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-16.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:25:01 justeco: SICP is great. 04:25:28 mod_lisp works perfectly fine, and MIT Scheme and Chez both have implementations of it. I am sure someone could write something for PLT. :-) 04:25:54 Web stuff in Scheme is actually pretty fun. 04:26:30 for a few minutes, then it gets boring :) 04:28:30 leppie: Would you rather program a web application in something else? 04:32:27 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:35:02 annodomini [n=lambda@75.69.96.104] has joined #scheme 04:41:11 -!- LobsterMan is now known as LobsterMan_AFK 04:45:00 arcfide: i would rather do something else than web 'programming' 04:45:23 where i mostly refer to the front end stuff 04:46:42 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:47:50 so I ported jrm's little python example to Scheme for fun 04:48:07 what I don't understand is, why is mzscheme so much faster than scheme48/scsh/mit-scheme? 04:48:30 scsh is an interpreter not? 04:48:56 no, sorry, i think of sisc 04:49:10 http://git.a-chinaman.com/blob.rhtml/Other/scratch/?branch=master&head=master&obj=./tail-recurive-visitors.scm 04:49:12 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/charfa 04:49:51 duncanm: He posted it? Where? 04:50:19 delagate is spelt delegate :) 04:50:22 eli: he wrote a little example involving visitors on his blog http://funcall.blogspot.com/2009/04/you-knew-id-say-something-part-ii.html 04:50:39 oh and you get it right in another place :) 04:50:46 [duncanm: And how can you use that tiny thing is beyond me] 04:51:11 duncanm: I know about what he wrote, just didn't know where he'd post it. 04:52:21 duncanm: You'll kill your back this way. 04:52:24 duncanm: I assume you've compiled the code on MIT? 04:53:43 eli: haha 04:53:45 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.162.40] has quit ["bye all"] 04:54:45 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:56:41 foof: is that 31MB for hato from top? what does `vmmap | grep resident` say? 04:57:06 i feel kinda embarrassed - maybe i posted code that's buggy? 05:01:04 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-186-237-111.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:02:36 hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-73-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:03:11 due to COW mapping of malloc pages and frequent heap resizing (both up and down) chicken may be using less memory than you expect 05:04:08 objects in heap are larger than they apear 05:04:21 get out of my mirror 05:14:08 -!- xwl_` [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:14:21 -!- justeco [i=tim@66.39.162.178] has left #scheme 05:15:10 *offby1* gets on toppa zbigniew's cloud 05:19:24 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-88-231.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:20:31 incubot: get outta my dreams, get into my car 05:20:34 must we all gawk when a man wakes up, his dreams shattered. 05:21:32 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 05:25:28 incubot: gimme shelter 05:25:30 I also got a browser window opened, but it too has lots of errors and interesting stuff; gimme a minute to collect them 05:41:47 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:43:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:58:19 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:09:47 djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:15:43 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 06:26:46 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@Aeropuerto.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has quit [] 06:32:31 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:49:39 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 06:56:20 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:56:41 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 06:58:22 -!- hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-73-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 07:06:22 phew! i fixed the bug in my silly tail-recursive visitor program 07:07:09 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:07:40 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:08:45 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 07:11:55 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:12:16 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:12:41 -!- npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:12:58 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:13:01 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:18:04 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:18:43 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 07:22:19 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-73-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:39:18 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 07:39:39 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 07:47:43 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has left #scheme 07:53:29 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:54:07 -!- herdrick [i=43b9e9a4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6c7d1a926037e2d9] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:57:18 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #scheme 07:58:17 is there any way to go from the string "l", the int 1, and the int 2 into a symbol that (write symbol) will output as "l12"? 08:00:58 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 08:01:45 sohum: string->symbol may prove useful 08:02:07 as well as string-append and number->string 08:04:41 I lik + myself 08:04:44 like* 08:05:13 synx: string->symbol outputs this weird #{l12}# thing 08:07:32 sohum, well, you use | symbol which may have special meaning, no wonder you get some escaping 08:08:27 MichaelRaskin: "|" ? 08:08:42 Oh, it was plain L 08:08:45 Sorry 08:08:57 elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 08:08:58 It may just be paranoid about lowercase 08:10:00 oh hey, L12 worked fine. thankee! 08:11:08 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:15:56 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-10-217.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 08:16:20 Mr-Cat [n=quassel@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:16:23 -!- cads [n=max@76.122.89.218] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:20:39 -!- Mr-Cat [n=quassel@hermes.lanit.ru] has left #scheme 08:20:45 Mr-Cat [n=quassel@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:20:59 -!- Mr-Cat [n=quassel@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:21:17 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:23:38 sohum pasted "dual loop macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79385 08:23:56 and for some reason I'm getting an "invalid syntax quote" error 08:32:54 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #scheme 08:38:16 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:42:46 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:44:13 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-73-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 08:44:41 it works here sohum, but you really don't need a macro for that 08:45:23 here = in plt scheme 08:46:23 oh, my bad, the error wasn't there at all 08:46:35 I suppose you don't 08:50:19 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 08:50:45 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:58:07 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #scheme 09:01:47 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:05:54 for what? 09:06:49 hkBst: http://paste.lisp.org/display/79385 09:18:31 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@174.0.46.123] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:18:37 rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 09:19:06 underspecified [n=eric-n@leopard175.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:19:57 pierpa [n=user@host202-182-static.80-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 09:20:55 orgy` [n=ratm_@217.255.233.135] has joined #scheme 09:23:59 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:31:42 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-197-217.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 09:35:42 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A22C5.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:39:52 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:40:35 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 09:45:22 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 09:49:45 -!- pierpa [n=user@host202-182-static.80-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:57:32 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:12:05 IceD^ [n=theiced@93.84.112.80] has joined #scheme 10:14:02 is this http://pastebin.ca/1407209 one ok? 10:18:17 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-254-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:18:45 -!- mike is now known as Guest27396 10:21:41 r5rs quotient 10:21:42 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_288 10:21:44 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/4nw6s8 10:21:47 r5rs div 10:21:47 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for div. 10:21:54 IceD^: ^^^ 10:22:17 hkBst, using r6rs :) 10:27:24 ah, I didn't know they changed quotient/modulo to div/mod 10:29:22 cracki [n=cracki@43-142.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 10:30:54 hkBst, so - is it OK? 10:31:07 -!- LobsterMan is now known as LobsterMan_AFK 10:31:28 4 years of imperative-only coding made me... to stupid 10:31:54 so I'm trying to restore my skills via solving projecteuler tasks 10:33:50 IceD^: yes it looks good, you might use a named let, and I noticed the 0 argument results in the empty list... Does it work for negative numbers? 10:34:19 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-172-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 10:34:20 and you should use lisppaste ;P 10:34:22 lisppaste: url 10:34:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 10:34:31 hkBst, ok :) 10:35:05 0 - bug, definitelly 10:35:08 named let? 10:42:10 hkBst pasted "named let" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79393 10:42:29 vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has joined #scheme 10:43:10 IceD^: negative numbers cause weird results! ;P 10:43:31 r5rs named let 10:43:39 r5rs let 10:43:39 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_124 10:43:41 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/695ay7 10:44:11 mine looks simplier for me :) 10:44:22 but thanks 10:45:55 IceD^: it's basically the same, except with named let there is an implicit call and you specify the arguments for it at the top, saving one line :) 10:46:55 btw http://projecteuler.net/ 10:47:23 highly recommended for anyone who needs to deep into new language (any language) and don't know where to start 10:47:35 solving first 20-30 problems will help greatly 10:47:54 IceD^: what implementation are you using? 10:48:01 hkBst, ypsilon 10:48:24 it's the only small & clean one r6rs present in my gentoo 10:50:17 IceD^: haha :) well we also have PLT (not so large with -X I think) and ikarus (and larceny in our overlay). 10:52:07 plt took it about 30 mins to emerge on my quad cpu box :) 10:52:11 noooooooot so small 10:53:20 IceD^: with ypsilon quotient seems to work too, but if I change it to div I get a "fatal: heap memory overflow (64MB)". Do you get that too on input 1234? 10:54:06 works w/ my impl 10:55:06 IceD^: what about bigger numbers? 10:55:20 yours works as well 10:55:33 any numbers 10:57:10 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 10:58:09 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 11:05:37 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has left #scheme 11:06:00 peter_ [n=sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 11:06:17 -!- peter_ is now known as sjamaan 11:10:45 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15:47 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:20:31 -!- cracki [n=cracki@43-142.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:32:09 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 11:39:29 morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 11:39:52 benny [n=benny@i577A0C3A.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 11:40:52 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:41:17 -!- morphir_ is now known as morphir 11:46:05 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 12:10:12 -!- Mikoange1o is now known as Mikoangelo 12:11:13 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has quit ["leaving"] 12:12:47 amit__ [n=asaha@192.18.192.21] has joined #scheme 12:13:18 Hi all 12:13:35 looking for some help with threading in 'mit-scheme'. Anyone ? 12:14:08 cracki [n=cracki@134.61.43.142] has joined #scheme 12:16:56 amit__: does it HAVE to be mit-scheme? 12:20:13 higepon54 [n=taro@FLH1Aip247.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 12:24:51 BW^-4376 [n=Miranda@151.80.22.165] has joined #scheme 12:25:25 what is the proper name for a (lambda (something) something) and (define (something) something) in Scheme - is it a PROCEDURE or a FUNCTION? 12:25:55 hkBst, I guess. I am using 'mit-scheme'. and I wanted to know how to implement a multi-threaded appl. 12:26:22 BW^-4376, a procedure, I guess- atleast that's what SICP uses! 12:26:25 BW^-4376, first one is lambda function and second is procedure 12:26:32 I think :) 12:26:49 IceD^, but, the first one returns a procedure, right? 12:27:53 -!- BW^-4376 is now known as BW^- 12:28:12 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #scheme 12:28:20 amit__, evaluates to procedure probably? 12:28:33 IceD^, a better way to put it :) 12:28:46 IceD^, s/better/correct 12:29:19 hehe. 12:29:22 BW^-: procedures can have side-effects, functions cannot. Thus in Scheme we have procedures, but I think many people often call them functions. 12:29:25 aha ok 12:29:33 so (lambda (sth) sth) RETURNS a procedure 12:29:40 and (define (sth) sth) DEFINES a procedure. 12:29:48 when then i do (sth), then i CALL/INVOKE the procedure 12:29:48 right? 12:29:58 BW^-, as IceD^ puts it, it evaluates to a procedure :) 12:30:22 hkBst: then, is the difference between a procedure and a function, that (lambda (sth) side-effect sth) this is a procedure and (lambda (sth) sth) this is a function ?? 12:30:38 (define (procedure) side-effect sth) (define (function) sth) ?? 12:30:49 hkBst, The reference manual doesn't talk about threds, however its there in the runtime- in runtime.pkg 12:30:53 BW^-: AFAIK yes 12:31:00 hkBst, So, was looking for some first hand knowledge 12:31:01 amit__: there is a srfi for threads... 12:31:21 hkBst, Which mit-scheme doesn't seem to implement :) 12:31:23 yeah - funcions must be pure 12:31:27 and I don 12:31:46 and I don't see any way to check if scheme procedure is function == pure 12:31:48 amit__: hence why question whether it MUST be mit-scheme :) 12:31:59 however, I don't know scheme much 12:32:27 hkBst, I found it small, and hence poor and thought about starting off with it for the motivation of contributing back to it! 12:32:43 hkBst: uhr. 12:32:43 hkBst, That IS the motivation :) 12:33:24 amit__: ah, good luck to you then :) 12:33:47 BW^-: uhr? 12:34:00 hkBst, :) Which do you recommend for _usage_ ? PLT scheme? 12:34:33 amit__: it depends on what you are doing. I recommend writing portable code and testing it in a few implementations. 12:34:45 hkBst: if i just have (something), then am i best of call it a procedure or a function? 12:35:19 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has joined #scheme 12:35:25 hkBst, hmm..as of now, its mainly a learning exercise :) However, I am trying to code up a Python like SimpleHTTPServer module in Scheme 12:35:36 BW^-: well, procedures are always procedures and procedures are only functions if you can prove they have no side-effects. 12:35:54 hkBst, so I need multi-threading for it- 12:36:58 hkBst: oki 12:37:42 all: so no mit-scheme users ? :( 12:37:53 hkBst: an if I ever see (lambda (sth) written somewhere, then it's a LAMBDA FUNCTION that most probably returns a PROCEDURE, unless i double-check there's no side effects? 12:38:22 BW^-, right 12:38:32 BW^-: lambda is a special form I think 12:38:41 amit__ : you might try asking Riastradh, whenever he happens to be present. (or else try emailing him, as i'm sure he'll suggest) 12:39:29 ski, Ok. Thanks. I will get his email from the mit-scheme 'bugzilla' 12:39:44 ski, I am in touch with the mit-scheme-devs though 12:40:39 BW^-: so lambda is a special form that (definitely) returns a procedure and that propcedure may or may not be a function 12:41:14 hkBst, `evaluates to` not `returns`, right? 12:41:26 aha 12:41:45 IceD^: well, calls to it evaluate to... :) 12:41:59 I find Scheme fascinating, it's a great way to express software 12:42:21 I have learnt a lot of CS just learning Scheme :) 12:42:22 (amit__ : i see) 12:48:17 annodomini [n=lambda@75.69.96.104] has joined #scheme 12:48:31 A fascinating thing I have come across off-late is 'memoization'. I plan to explore it sometime soon 12:53:46 amit__: what? 12:54:30 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-169.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:54:34 BW^-, 'memoization'- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization 12:55:10 BW^-, Its well described in PAIP- Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Progrsmming, Norvig. 13:00:19 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75.149.208.121] has joined #scheme 13:16:01 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 13:18:43 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 13:21:22 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:25:45 xwl [n=user@114.246.89.185] has joined #scheme 13:29:11 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-129-241.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:32:04 -!- cracki [n=cracki@134.61.43.142] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 13:32:10 -!- BW^- [n=Miranda@151.80.22.165] has left #scheme 13:34:47 -!- amit__ [n=asaha@192.18.192.21] has 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[n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:19:03 incubot: The Constellation Space Suit System (CSSS) will be designed in a modular fashion. 14:19:04 Error: unbound variable: The 14:19:21 haha 14:19:38 incubot: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)) 14:19:40 Eval 14418 timed out. 14:22:00 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-146.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 14:23:28 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:26:04 incubot: (((call/cc call/cc) (lambda (k) (lambda (n) (if (zero? n) 1 (* n ((k k) (- n 1))))))) 5) 14:26:04 120 14:27:56 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 14:28:08 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #scheme 14:28:38 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl422.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 14:29:37 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 14:33:47 but your fibinocci only does whole numbers 14:34:26 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.57.58.146] has joined #scheme 14:34:36 bweaver [n=user@c-68-60-199-117.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:36:13 it's a factorial, and that's how it's defined 14:39:47 i'm working on a new version 14:39:54 which does fractional numbers 14:42:13 like the gamma function? 14:42:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has left #scheme 14:42:47 (define (fib x) (* (expt (* (/ (+ x 1) (exp 1)) (sqrt (+ (* (+ x 1) (/ 2) (- (exp (/ (+ x 1))) (exp (- (/ (+ x 1)))))) (/ (* 810 (expt (+ x 1) 6)))))) (+ x 1)) (sqrt (/ (* 4 (asin 1)) (+ x 1))))) 14:42:57 it's only approximate but it's pretty close 14:43:18 incubot: (begin (define (fib x) (* (expt (* (/ (+ x 1) (exp 1)) (sqrt (+ (* (+ x 1) (/ 2) (- (exp (/ (+ x 1))) (exp (- (/ (+ x 1)))))) (/ (* 810 (expt (+ x 1) 6)))))) (+ x 1)) (sqrt (/ (* 4 (asin 1)) (+ x 1))))) (fib 5)) 14:43:19 120.000000196102 14:43:23 heh 14:43:29 incubot: (begin (define (fib x) (* (expt (* (/ (+ x 1) (exp 1)) (sqrt (+ (* (+ x 1) (/ 2) (- (exp (/ (+ x 1))) (exp (- (/ (+ x 1)))))) (/ (* 810 (expt (+ x 1) 6)))))) (+ x 1)) (sqrt (/ (* 4 (asin 1)) (+ x 1))))) (fib 5.5)) 14:43:29 287.885278085483 14:44:30 and it's way faster 14:44:42 since it isn't iterative 14:45:35 rudybot: eval (begin (define (fib x) (* (expt (* (/ (+ x 1) (exp 1)) (sqrt (+ 14:45:36 offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 14:45:36 offby1: error: eval:1:61: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 14:45:44 rudybot: eval (begin (define (fib x) (* (expt (* (/ (+ x 1) (exp 1)) (sqrt (+ (* (+ x 1) (/ 2) (- (exp (/ (+ x 1))) (exp (- (/ (+ x 1)))))) (/ (* 810 (expt (+ x 1) 6)))))) (+ x 1)) (sqrt (/ (* 4 (asin 1)) (+ x 1))))) (fib 5.5)) 14:45:44 offby1: ; Value: 287.88527808548275 14:47:36 maybe you can simplify it and expressit in terms of continuations only 14:47:54 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 14:50:15 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df915@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3535325f21128e86] has joined #scheme 14:51:19 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:51:49 -!- elias` 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-!- krat3r [n=krat@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:20:18 heat [n=dima@8.21.172.227] has joined #scheme 17:22:31 elfor_ [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 17:33:50 geckosen1tor: shouldn't that be (fac x), not (fib x)? 17:47:45 pfo_ [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 17:50:59 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #scheme 17:55:02 r00t_ [n=r00t@115.241.133.177] has joined #scheme 17:55:28 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.137.114] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:56:34 barney [n=bernhard@p549A1348.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:56:53 -!- r00t_ is now known as cornucopic 18:07:59 yes 18:08:03 I agree now 18:12:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 18:15:45 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:13 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:25:13 hotblack23 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[n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:54:10 ejs1 [n=eugen@107-206-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 20:55:34 wingo [n=wingo@93.Red-83-32-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:06 good evening. 20:56:19 good evening. 20:56:33 good evening. 20:57:33 Fnord! 20:57:45 Hail Eris! 20:59:45 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["Die Gedanken sind frei."] 21:07:22 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:08:15 -!- ejs [n=eugen@107-206-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:46 -!- Guest27396 [n=m@dslb-088-066-254-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:23:12 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 21:23:41 djarvelis: happy prickle-prickle 21:24:46 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a67bc8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-617fbe46a808b5f3] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:25:00 klutometis: partake not of the hot-dog bun 21:35:11 dysinger [n=tim@216.112.110.172.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:56 angoladon [n=heyjones@67.220.166.250] has joined #scheme 21:44:07 -!- angoladon [n=heyjones@67.220.166.250] has left #scheme 21:51:01 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:51:03 -!- nA1828KcFz9q [n=morse@cpe-071-065-237-135.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:54:18 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #scheme 21:57:55 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.112.110.172.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [] 21:59:22 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:09:32 incubot: beware the jubjub bird, and shun the frumious bandersnatch 22:09:35 pasted "eval until" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/14260 22:10:03 nice one, incubot; very stealthy 22:11:27 incubot: do you like scheme at all? 22:11:32 Scheme48 is always some little hacking away from doing everything. 22:12:01 incubot: Scheme48 is a mess. 22:12:04 might be... whole type system etc. is a mess. /me i'm happy with using SQL database implementation as "dull" backing store. 22:12:21 dysinger [n=tim@216.112.110.172.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:47 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@107-206-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:13:09 incubot: right, what happened to "lispish" on the filesystem lightweight datastore from the DWIM times? 22:13:12 -- this is relative to a straight dictionary datastore with accessor functions, but the clue database does simplify things a lot for me. 22:13:33 incubot: exactomundo! 22:13:36 exactomundo 22:24:52 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 22:35:07 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-228-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:36:19 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057397.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read 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