00:00:10 pumpkin, no, I'm not here, but I read my email. 00:00:43 fair enough 00:01:42 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:52 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-133-14.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:44 -!- raikov` [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:05:25 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:08:00 -!- raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:08:13 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #scheme 00:14:47 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-108-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:06 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 00:23:16 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:33:01 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-117-84.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 00:33:23 raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 00:33:25 gwern [n=gwern@wikipedia/Gwern] has joined #scheme 00:34:13 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 00:34:57 I have a small problem. I was looking at a SICP problem set and it mentions zero? as a function, but I can't seem to write a working google search for it (although it does seem to exist in dr. scheme) 00:35:06 r5rs zero? 00:35:06 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_264 00:35:09 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6dnnyt 00:35:10 what sort of website would I look up standard scheme functions in? 00:35:15 That one. 00:35:42 hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-93-89.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:35:46 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:35:51 hm. ah, ok the index does seem to work 00:36:11 thanks 00:36:12 -!- gwern [n=gwern@wikipedia/Gwern] has left #scheme 00:37:50 -!- hadronzoo___ [n=hadronzo@209.30.33.186] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:36 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:41:16 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 00:41:26 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:44:52 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-108-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:20 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:47:27 davidad [n=me@cpe-24-210-220-246.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:56:26 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:59:04 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:00:20 Riastradh: sorry to bother you again, but could you check your PM? it's unrelated to scheme so I'm reluctant to ask in here... 01:01:07 Just curious -- anything wrong with email? That's a much more reliable way to contact me. 01:02:03 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:02:37 For example, what might be wrong with email is that you don't know my email address. 01:03:02 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:03:03 well, google revealed a potential candidate, but discussing your email address in here also seemed off-topic :) 01:03:16 But that's easy enough to resolve: my address is my surname at mumble dot net. 01:04:58 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:52 *pumpkin* crosses his fingers 01:10:02 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has quit [] 01:13:55 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:16:16 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 01:18:52 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@12.43.172.26] has joined #scheme 01:19:09 I have these things called "logs" and "scrollback" so PM is a pretty danged reliable way to contact me. You still can't be 100% sure the message was delivered, but I've lost less of those than emails. 01:21:13 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 01:22:22 -!- LobsterMan is now known as LobsterMan_AFK 01:24:46 *pumpkin* shrugs, email isn't exactly a terrible punishment 01:25:30 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@12.43.172.26] has quit [] 01:33:48 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 01:38:59 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:46:32 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-146-64.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:52:16 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 01:56:33 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-74-99.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:57:18 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:58:52 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:58:52 Lemonator [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:00:13 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:00:29 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 02:06:49 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 02:08:34 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-101-216.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:09:01 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:23:04 -!- pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:31:26 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:16 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:42:48 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:46:59 wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:51:45 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176209202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:40 underspecified_ [n=eric-n@leopard175.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:53:51 benny [n=benny@i577A0C9C.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 02:57:47 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:02:35 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.165.36] has joined #scheme 03:05:16 #scheme, what variety of tea should I have? 03:05:17 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:06:03 -!- bsmntbombdood_ is now known as bsmntbombdood 03:07:36 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176220206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:05 Elly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salep#Beverage 03:12:06 Elly: Puerh. 03:13:32 Spiced Rooibos has happened here 03:16:30 *eli* 03:16:32 -!- wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:16:36 *eli* 's choice is much better 03:17:32 but I don't have yours on hand 03:17:34 and I need tea 03:18:23 The camomile, which used to be her favorite for lazy evenings at home, now reminded her too much of Carl, who once said, in happier times, that he liked camomile. 03:20:27 Elly: It's easy really, all you need is milk, cornflour, sugar, some rosewater and some orange-flower-water. Basic stuff. 03:20:40 Or the instant powder. 03:20:49 (You just caught me making one...) 03:21:08 orange-flower-water? 03:21:38 What about the orchid flour? 03:22:08 Elly: I don't know the name in English -- in arabic it's called zahr water. 03:22:42 Do you know how it is formed eli? 03:22:43 *Elly* ponders 03:22:53 more pertinently, do you know where one might get it in the US? 03:23:14 You can't even get decent black tea in the US. 03:23:24 synx: Sure you can. 03:24:42 teiresias: I looked at the package, it doesn't list the components -- but I don't think that the middle-eastern version is big on the orchid thing. 03:24:49 I qualified my statement with an arbitrarily defined term arcfide. :3 I just find the idea of exotic cuisine here rather frustrating at times. 03:25:04 synx: Just like rosewater but from orange trees. 03:25:37 Oh so you soak orange flower petals. 03:25:55 Elly: No, sorry. But if you're in the Cambridge area then I know of one place to get it. 03:26:14 (My home... I'm not buying this stuff here.) 03:26:21 I'm not really ever in the Cambridge area, unless CMU mysteriously relocates 03:26:27 eli: well, how do you acquire it? 03:26:32 You never know. 03:26:48 Wormholes pop up when you least expect them. 03:26:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_flower_water go figure 03:27:06 I get people in israel to send me some every once in a while. 03:27:28 "This essential water has traditionally been used in many French and Mediterranean dessert dishes, but has more recently found its way into Western cuisine." 03:27:39 odd definition of western 03:27:53 I guess all definitions of western are probably odd in someone's view 03:27:57 Oh, actually it says it's a product of distilling... how you would distill a solid flower petal I haven't a clue. 03:28:20 synx: yeah, that sounds like the thing I'm talking about. 03:28:21 Everything is west of somewhere. 03:31:20 yup :) 03:35:27 pumpkin: Maybe they're referring to "west of Atlantic". :-P 03:38:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 03:38:50 So, if anyone is interested, there are submissions enabled for Descot now. They are not nearly as easy as they should be, but they are there. 03:45:28 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:47:33 Elly: half-fermented oolong? 03:48:05 klutometis: too late! 03:48:12 doh! 03:49:23 dough? 03:50:20 offby1: doe 03:50:28 A deer. 03:50:33 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:42 incubot: tea, a drink with jam and bread 03:50:44 do you drink? 03:51:18 These are a few of my favorite things 03:53:18 T, a dialect of Lisp or LAMBDA: The ultimate software tool 03:54:32 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:54:35 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:03:31 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:03:48 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:11:26 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 04:24:42 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.143.135] has joined #scheme 04:25:28 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:26:59 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@64.105.38.106] has joined #scheme 04:27:20 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-186-237-111.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Sleep"] 04:31:04 can anyone help me with a problem i'm having using (check-expect)? I'm trying to nest it inside of a procedure so that I can call this specific procedure and have it run only certain tests at a time, instead of putting (generate-report) at the very end and running all tests in the file 04:31:12 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 04:31:32 LobsterMan pasted " " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79058 04:33:28 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:34:28 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:34:42 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 04:36:02 code @ http://paste.lisp.org/display/79058 as the bot said ^_^ 04:36:27 nuts, I never use htdp/testing :-( 04:36:28 reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-21-12.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:36:45 I need to unit-test more 04:37:09 i'm hoping it's even possible to do what i'm trying to 04:37:13 LobsterMan: I suspect, based on the error message, that you simply can't do that. Perhaps there's some other function that's similar to check-expect, but _does_ let you use it inside a procedure. 04:37:18 unit testing is for people not knowing what they code :) 04:37:29 lolcow: unit testing is for people that make mistakes 04:37:32 lolcow: now now 04:37:37 offby1 do you perhaps know of any other similar testing procedures? :) 04:37:37 Elly: yeah. 04:37:40 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 04:37:52 LobsterMan: well, I'm something of a fan of "schemeunit" 04:37:58 and leppie it's also for people whose professors require them to test :\ 04:38:22 offby1 is that something that's included in, or would be easy to implement into drscheme using 'module'? 04:38:47 does he provide the unit tests? 04:38:59 LobsterMan: it's available through "Planet". 04:39:19 LobsterMan: see http://planet.plt-scheme.org/package-source/schematics/schemeunit.plt/3/3/planet-docs/schemeunit/quick-start.html 04:39:20 Lemonator [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:39:22 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/csbskw 04:39:23 Elly: You have it backwards; unit testing is for people who like to program with no mistakes. 04:39:32 leppie no, it's part of the project making our own :\ 04:39:40 unit testing is for people who make mistakes initially, but would like to fix them. 04:39:59 offby1 thanks for the link, i'll check it out 04:40:23 unit testing is good, when you are coding to a contract, writing your own unit tests is like proffreading your own writing 04:40:58 BS. 04:41:04 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 04:41:16 I also need to learn how scheme's contract system works 04:41:20 er, PLT-scheme's 04:41:50 Well, that's besides the point of testing... 04:41:52 eli: not into unit testing? 04:42:11 On the contrary. 04:42:39 mmph 04:42:41 Tests are good for any kind of code -- when you're "coding to a contract" and when you're not. 04:42:47 ah 04:43:10 well, then, what leppie said isn't "BS"; it's more like "incomplete" 04:43:23 well as long as you dont write tests for trivial code, that just makes me sad... 04:43:27 Too far from complete. 04:43:56 Show me a programmer who doesn't believe in tests, and I'll show you a kid who didn't expereince those dark corners in your code that come to haunt you a year later... 04:43:57 thats like insulting the compiler :) 04:43:59 *copumpkin* always tests that addition is commutative 04:44:24 offby1 so bottom line, you're not aware of any type of "quick fix" to my issue other than using some other means of testing? heh heh 04:44:28 You know what I'm talking about -- those pieces of code that you just know that if you change one character you'll spend the next week debugging it. 04:45:13 LobsterMan: You should ask your question on the mailing list. 04:45:35 hmm 04:45:46 where can i find that? :) 04:45:50 LobsterMan: IIRC, it (the testing facility from the teaching languages, which is what you're trying to use) has some issues when used like that. 04:46:00 Where can you find what? 04:46:17 mailing list info? lisp.org? 04:46:36 plt-scheme.org/maillist 04:46:48 or just google for "plt scheme mailing list". 04:46:57 hehe thanks 04:47:18 lisp.org is something completely different. 04:51:15 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has quit ["Client exiting"] 04:51:38 and now for something lisp.orgy... 04:52:04 mmm... lisp orgy... 04:52:23 lisp orgy? 04:54:21 LobsterMan: nope, I know nothing about htdp/testing. Perhaps just take everything in the function test-valid-coords? and pull it up to the top level 04:54:26 Elly: remind me to bring earplugs 04:54:30 foof: where? When? 04:54:55 offby1 yeah i tried that, but i'm hoping to be able to control what tests get run at any given time 04:55:17 i can just put a huge list of tests into a file, but i'm trying to selectively execute them 04:55:50 higepon90 [n=taro@218-223-22-146.bitcat.net] has joined #scheme 04:56:16 klutometis: why earplugs? 04:56:47 reprore__ [n=reprore@EM114-48-66-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:57:09 Elly: the s <-> th metathesis gets on my nerves after awhile ;) 04:58:11 klutometis: I'm not sure what is what was meant :P 04:59:26 eli this mailing list, is the subject of the email what the header will show on the list? 04:59:34 i tried these mailing lists before, but i messed it up 05:01:07 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:02:48 -!- reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-21-12.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:20:06 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:22:16 certaint1|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 05:22:34 -!- certaint1|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:27:18 -!- certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [""bye bye ...""] 05:37:34 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:37:42 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["Off"] 05:43:31 -!- higepon90 is now known as higepon 05:43:37 -!- reprore__ [n=reprore@EM114-48-66-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:45:02 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.165.36] has quit ["bye all"] 05:45:15 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 05:48:04 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@64.105.38.106] has quit [] 05:50:31 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #scheme 05:56:16 reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-66-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:57:05 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:06 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:02:51 -!- reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-66-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 06:06:59 -!- melgray [n=melgray@pool-71-121-210-139.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:08:46 Ragnaroek [i=54a64a08@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6ad84692251d39c8] has joined #scheme 06:11:56 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:12:19 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:24:30 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a64a08@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6ad84692251d39c8] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 06:25:12 Ragnaroek [i=54a64a08@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ba84c74c35c3a41f] has joined #scheme 06:25:13 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:30:18 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 06:32:10 -!- lpsmith [n=lepsmith@c-67-173-144-59.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 06:34:16 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:38:19 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:41:09 geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:44:35 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 06:45:51 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 06:50:51 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:52:24 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:55:06 see this? http://neopythonic.blogspot.com/2009/04/tail-recursion-elimination.html 06:55:14 ASau [n=user@host19-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:55:53 why are the scheme basis libraries not written in terms of the object system? 06:55:59 couple pythonistas consoling themselves that they have no TRE; but this is bizarre: 06:56:02 "Tail recursion elimination is necessary in functional languages with no side effects, like scheme, but not in a language with explicit state like Python." 06:56:17 Elly: what do you mean by basis libraries, srfis? 06:56:44 yeah 06:57:09 like...why 'each' and 'vector-each' are different 06:58:03 heh 06:58:23 I'm amused by his assertion that recursion is some kind of mathematical nicety 07:02:09 Elly: i didn't realize it was guido himself at first; now i realize he's masturbating his conscience into self-satisfied indolence 07:02:54 he slips into the same bizarre reverie when confronted with their castrated lambda 07:02:55 I don't know that I'd go that far 07:03:05 yeah, python's lambda is disturbing 07:03:22 also, is it morally reprehensible to make L expand to lambda? 07:03:47 no; people do it all the time with real lambda; there's even an emacs plugin 07:03:54 ah, okay 07:04:10 scheme's lambda makes me miss \x -> ... syntax 07:04:25 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:04:52 Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 07:05:08 *Elly* prefers (map (L x (+ x 3)) v) 07:05:35 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:06:27 I have a nasty feeling that I'm going to write a library of macros that I use everywhere 07:06:42 and that will make my programs unreadable to everyone else 07:07:05 yeah; that's okay. i have a bunch of debug macros that follow me everywhere 07:07:12 oh dear 07:07:12 the emacs plugin at least does the substitution on the fly 07:07:19 so others see just lambda, i believe 07:07:22 *Elly* uses vim :P 07:07:42 ah; i've heard scary things about doing lisp in vim 07:07:48 it's...weird 07:07:57 I'm not a very experienced vim user 07:08:11 but emacs manages to intimidate me with multiple buffers each time I use it 07:08:31 hmm; i thought vim had multiple buffers, too 07:08:36 oh, it does 07:08:40 but it doesn't spawn them for you 07:08:47 whereas emacs will create a new buffer at the drop of a hat 07:09:43 do you have to count parenthesis, though? 07:09:49 s/sis/ses/ 07:09:56 vim matches them 07:10:22 it makes unmatched ones red and colors the paren matching the current one differently 07:11:12 if you're not too firmly ensconced in the vim camp, you might want to try emacs with paredit.el 07:11:22 what's that? 07:11:27 it matches every parenthesis literally, not just visually 07:11:33 it's Riastradh's emacs mode for scheme 07:11:40 where can I acquire it? 07:11:42 so that typing ( gets you (), etc. 07:11:47 ah, I see 07:11:52 http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit.el 07:12:02 basically, you never ever have to balance parens manually 07:12:16 how do I use this thing? 07:12:32 aha, it says 07:13:25 holy crap, this is long 07:13:28 i schemed for about a year without it, then never looked back 07:13:34 heh, that's Riastradh for you ;) 07:13:53 and it killed vim's syntax highlighter with a \" 07:14:49 yeah, I am deeply afraid of this thing 07:14:49 ouch; hate when that happens 07:14:57 heh 07:15:12 I'm used to it...I used to write perl, which breaks syntax highlighters as a matter of linguistic pride 07:16:35 i found that highlighting the parens wasn't enough to prevent me from manually correcting shit once and awhile 07:16:51 paredit basically gets out of my way, so i don't even realize i'm balancing parens 07:18:41 heh, vim correctly highlights .emacs :P 07:19:47 nice ;) 07:21:17 hm 07:21:22 Symbol's value as variable is void: scheme-mode-hook 07:21:27 that's odd 07:22:23 what does emacs --version say? 07:23:48 GNU Emacs 22.3.1 07:25:08 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a64a08@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ba84c74c35c3a41f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:26:00 hm 07:26:06 how do I get emacs to run my buffer as scheme? 07:26:12 Ragnaroek [i=54a64a08@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-02b50b591d445ce6] has joined #scheme 07:27:31 Elly: try M-x scheme-mode 07:27:36 or M-x paredit-mode 07:27:52 oh, when you say: run my buffer, you mean execute it? 07:27:55 M-x paredit-mode worked 07:28:02 as did C-c C-r for running it 07:28:40 C-c C-r doesn't bring the scheme buffer to the front though 07:29:30 that sucks; what about doing C-x 2 to split the buffer 07:29:43 and selecting scheme with C-x b? 07:29:53 C-x o moves between the windows 07:30:26 yeah, that worked :) 07:30:43 but now if I do C-c C-r from anywhere but the very start of the buffer, the scheme process seems to get some garbage 07:30:58 by the way, C-c C-z should take you straight to scheme 07:31:15 ah, neat 07:31:19 maybe it's evaluating the buffer in the middle 07:31:35 -!- LobsterMan is now known as LobsterMan_AFK 07:32:00 i have this little func that let's you evaluate the buffer from anywhere: 07:32:11 (defun scheme-send-buffer () "Just send the goddamn thing." (interactive) (scheme-send-region (point-min) (point-max))) 07:32:21 usually bind it to C-c C-b: 07:32:22 (define-key scheme-mode-map "\C-c\C-b" 'scheme-send-buffer) 07:32:33 put those in you .emacs; see if it works 07:32:43 C-c C-r has always been touchy for me 07:33:57 Symbol's value as variable is void: scheme-mode-map 07:34:04 one should be able to modify it to bring up the scheme buffer automatically; have to take a look at the source for switch-to-scheme 07:34:12 hmm 07:34:12 I think I know what's wrong 07:34:17 * app-emacs/scheme-complete 07:34:22 note the lack of [I] 07:34:27 ahh 07:36:46 huh, scheme-mode-map still missing 07:37:43 I don't see anything missing 07:37:50 it certainly has scheme mode 07:37:52 hmm; one sec 07:38:14 i have (autoload 'scheme-complete "scheme-complete.el") in there 07:38:22 it may have to be loaded first 07:38:44 not to mention (autoload 'scheme-mode "scheme-mode.el" "scheme-mode" t 'nil) 07:39:25 that made it way worse :P 07:39:34 oops 07:39:38 scheme-mode-el != scheme-mode.el 07:40:23 it claims it can't open "scheme-mode.el" 07:40:40 is there an app-emacs/scheme-mode? 07:41:01 not that I see 07:41:40 leave it out, see what happens 07:42:06 same error about scheme-mode-hook, but scheme gets syntax highlighted 07:42:22 which means scheme-mode.el must live somewhere strange 07:42:37 instead of scheme-mode-map, try paredit-mode-map 07:42:44 you should have that, at least 07:43:01 same problem - symbol's value as variable is void 07:43:18 weird; didn't you have something about scheme-mode-hook earlier? 07:43:29 yeah 07:43:42 this is using (define-key paredit-mode-map "\C-c\C-b" 'scheme-send-buffer) 07:44:54 what about: 07:45:12 (eval-after-load 'scheme '(define-key scheme-mode-map "\C-c\C-b" 'scheme-send-buffer)) 07:45:40 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-235-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 07:46:08 -!- mike is now known as Guest34047 07:46:10 yay! 07:46:11 that worked :) 07:46:24 beautiful 07:48:58 unfortunately, the same trick does not work for (add-hook scheme-mode-hook (lambda () (paredit-mode +1))) 07:50:45 Elly: you can easily add ML-like syntax (fn () '()) 07:51:44 attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has joined #scheme 07:53:29 Elly: hmm; what's the error? and you're doing exactly: 07:53:43 (eval-after-load 'scheme '(add-hook scheme-mode-hook (lambda () (paredit-mode +1))))? 07:53:53 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:49 to quote my .emacs: 07:55:57 (eval-after-load 'scheme '(add-hook scheme-mode-hook (lambda () (paredit-mode +1)))) 07:56:08 and it says this when loading a scheme file: 07:56:18 "File mode specification error: (setting-constant nil)" 08:03:20 bizarre; and without the eval-after-load, you get a scheme-mode-hook error? hmm 08:04:53 -!- laz0r [n=lazor@affenbande.org] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:04:53 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:04:53 -!- Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:05:08 Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 08:05:08 laz0r [n=lazor@affenbande.org] has joined #scheme 08:05:08 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 08:05:18 HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has joined #scheme 08:06:50 yeah 08:07:00 it tells me scheme-mode-hook is not a variable 08:08:18 Elly: try autoloading scheme.el 08:08:58 same error with the eval-after-load 08:09:57 scheme.el defines scheme-mode-hook 08:10:42 download this: http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/emacs/emacs/lisp/progmodes/scheme.el 08:10:50 place it in your scheme path along with paredit.el 08:10:59 I have a scheme.el 08:11:04 it loaded properly 08:11:33 and it even defines scheme-mode-hook :P 08:11:44 it's in /usr/share/emacs/22.3/lisp/progmodes/scheme.el 08:13:12 what about (require 'scheme) above it 08:13:25 so 08:13:27 I just tried this: 08:13:37 (add-hook 'scheme-mode-hook (lambda () (paredit-mode +1))) 08:13:57 and now paredit appears to operate in scheme mode 08:14:05 after adding (require 'scheme)? 08:14:08 nope 08:14:15 just changing scheme-mode-hook to 'scheme-mode-hook 08:14:36 oh, shit; nice 08:14:55 problem solved, then ;) 08:15:21 now is a good time to sleep 08:15:27 'night 08:15:33 you too 08:33:35 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:54:01 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 09:05:41 -!- higepon [n=taro@218-223-22-146.bitcat.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:08:46 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a64a08@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-02b50b591d445ce6] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 09:10:26 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-220.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 09:11:40 -!- raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:09 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:17:45 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-74-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:19:52 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 09:27:35 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-74-99.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:40:24 borism [n=boris@195-50-200-111-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 09:41:12 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:45:36 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:26 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.143.135] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:51:11 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 09:51:50 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:52:45 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df985@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-19999140cbed5a66] has joined #scheme 10:16:01 elfor [n=johanfre@nl-217-14.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 10:16:23 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.134.64] has joined #scheme 10:36:34 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.143.135] has joined #scheme 10:48:21 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has quit [Client Quit] 10:48:59 -!- ASau [n=user@host19-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 10:58:27 vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:04:07 what's the best scheme program 11:04:07 ? 11:06:03 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:11:23 vixey: (display "Hello, world!") 11:15:20 -!- Guest34047 [n=m@dslb-088-066-235-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:17:54 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@nl-217-14.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [] 11:22:43 -!- davidad [n=me@cpe-24-210-220-246.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:27:43 cracki [n=cracki@43-029.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 11:35:12 (newline) 11:36:01 XTL: I certainly don't find that to be the best scheme program. Then again, I don't find mine to be either. 11:36:47 But they go well together. 11:38:50 #f 11:38:54 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE61D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:39:59 luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has joined #scheme 11:41:44 ; 11:45:27 rudybot: eval > ; 11:45:28 hkBst: your sandbox is ready 11:45:28 hkBst: ; Value: #> 11:45:39 rudybot: eval ; 11:45:45 :) 11:46:07 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has joined #scheme 11:47:15 hello, is there a macro that does sth like (macromap mymacro '(1 2 3 4)) which "call" mymacro on each list element? 11:47:53 I guess I can just write one 11:51:08 lisppaste: url 11:51:09 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 11:51:33 hkBst pasted "macro-reduce-map" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79064 11:52:22 chickamade: you could use that with cons as the reducer... But I have this feeling that we shouldn't have to duplicate functions in macros. 11:54:29 plus there seem to be some typos left in the code :( 11:56:01 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 11:56:03 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:15 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 12:03:15 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:03:41 hkBst annotated #79064 "corrected macro-reduce-map" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79064#1 12:04:27 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@89.223.157.206] has joined #scheme 12:04:44 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:04:52 tfb- [n=tfb@212.183.134.64] has joined #scheme 12:05:14 chickamade: is that any use to you? What are you trying to do? 12:05:33 hkBst: thanks but i don't think it'll work, my mapper is a macro 12:05:37 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.134.64] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:05:47 -!- tfb- is now known as tfb 12:06:18 so (m a) expects m to be a procedure 12:06:40 I need (m a) to expand to a def-syntax 12:07:43 is it possible? 12:07:49 i'm quite new to Scheme macrology 12:07:52 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 12:08:00 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.134.64] has quit [Client Quit] 12:09:19 `sorrow` [n=kvirc@92.4.9.134] has joined #scheme 12:09:32 hkBst annotated #79064 "(macro-reduce-map '() macro-cons macro-id 1 2 3 4)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79064#2 12:09:54 chickamade: that ^ runs fine in gambit... 12:11:26 and in bigloo too 12:11:51 I'm using PLT 12:12:01 <`sorrow`> good afteroon 12:12:35 <`sorrow`> do anyone knows any scheme disadvantages? 12:12:44 hkBst: hmm your examples do work 12:12:59 chickamade: it works in plt too, but you will need to substitute `display' or whatever pretty-printer you want for `pp' 12:13:16 -!- cracki [n=cracki@43-029.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:15:09 `sorrow`: language fragmentation (so many dialects) 12:16:24 chickamade: but usually (especially if you're a beginner) macros are the wrong tool. 12:16:44 <`sorrow`> ecraven: good ! 12:17:02 `sorrow`: R6RS 12:17:04 hkBst: yeah I'm not really doing anything critical here, just for fun 12:17:12 and to learn more 12:17:24 chickamade: carry on then ;P 12:17:31 and being lazy :p 12:19:19 <`sorrow`> i head somewhere that is less efficient in the use of cpu what do you think ? 12:19:24 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 12:19:30 `sorrow`: no 12:19:47 `sorrow`: that's just some sort of vague nonsensical remark that couldn't be true or false 12:20:46 <`sorrow`> get it. 12:21:45 <`sorrow`> what else can be a disadvantage... 12:22:14 `sorrow`: it depends, what are you intending to use it for? 12:22:36 If your CPU could only run scheme, scheme would clearly be the language of choice for efficiency on that CPU 12:22:47 evalutation order being specified as any permutation rather than in order makes monadic reflection less appropriate 12:23:11 Jafet: already pointed out it was a nonsense remark 12:24:06 scheme is hard to google, but so is C... 12:24:22 <`sorrow`> heheh 12:25:51 <`sorrow`> ok 12:27:12 bremner [n=bremner@pivot.cs.unb.ca] has joined #scheme 12:27:27 <`sorrow`> vixey: i didn't get the last point, what you mean? 12:28:09 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:42 `sorrow` you'd probably have to actually know some scheme to understantd it 12:29:35 <`sorrow`> yes i know, i'm studing it at uni from 2 months ago 12:29:53 <`sorrow`> but i found a lot of advantages, 12:30:09 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.57.58.146] has joined #scheme 12:30:28 <`sorrow`> scheme is actually better then imperative language, but so why is not very popular ? 12:30:52 <`sorrow`> if is much better than C. 12:31:43 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:32:18 I think you are asking in the wrong channel 12:32:29 I would dare to venture that scheme enjoys a measure of popularity here 12:33:09 <`sorrow`> i know... 12:35:41 go to ##c or ##c++ and ask the same question ;) 12:35:57 `sorrow` C is popular because linux is written in it and that means it's obviously the best language in the world 12:36:06 `sorrow` even programmers don't really make objective decisions based on technical merits 12:37:05 <`sorrow`> get it ! 12:38:23 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:38:28 <`sorrow`> ecraven: i think they will just know about C and not abot scheme :) 12:38:36 <`sorrow`> about* 12:38:54 ask it 12:39:02 Jafet: You're here too?! 12:39:39 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 12:39:44 Why the ?! 12:40:01 Jafet: I just see you in many places I'm at. 12:40:46 <`sorrow`> vixey: i don't actually need the answer, all i need to focus is on scheme, i've got all the advantage and know i'm looking for some disadvantage, if i could find any 12:41:07 `sorrow`: Could you reask your question? 12:41:57 <`sorrow`> I was looking for some scheme disadvantages... 12:43:17 R5RS doesn't have a module system 12:43:19 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:43:31 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:43:53 `sorrow`: Lack of types (unless using typed scheme), no module system, no standard macro system (or did they add one?), R6RS isn't compatible with R5RS or below IIRC 12:44:11 Lack of types can be an advantage too, depending on what you're doing. 12:44:21 <`sorrow`> i see 12:44:21 Quadrescence: yeah Lack of types isn't a disadvantage 12:44:35 no standard macro system is a lie 12:44:46 vixey: Well, there wasn't one in R3RS 12:45:11 I don't remember if a macro system was required, or IF there is a macro system, that the macros must be hygienic 12:46:18 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-74-99.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 12:47:04 <`sorrow`> Quadrescence: are there on R5RS or R6RS? 12:47:23 R6RS 12:47:32 <`sorrow`> so is ok 12:47:39 Oh 12:47:47 Sorry; I misinterpreted your question. 12:47:59 `sorrow`: Even in R3RS, most schemes provide a macro system. 12:48:06 You probably won't run into a scheme without one. 12:48:47 <`sorrow`> is ok, 12:49:06 Yes, I was wrong, there is a macro system defined in r6rs 12:49:46 <`sorrow`> so this are all the disadvantages? 12:50:02 A macro system is good. 12:50:13 The things I said earlier could be viewed as a disadvantage. 12:50:22 Is there any reason why you ask about its disadvantages? 12:50:52 <`sorrow`> cause i can't actually find any 12:52:48 <`sorrow`> is the second book that i read know and all i can find are advantages 12:53:55 `sorrow`: Do you program scheme? 12:54:01 <`sorrow`> yes 12:54:34 <`sorrow`> but i'm stilla beginner 12:54:36 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:54:45 Hay gays!! 12:54:54 What are the disadvantages of cheeseburgers?? 12:54:58 I want to know pls!! 12:55:05 <`sorrow`> :P lol 12:55:39 /join #cheesbugersssuck 12:57:22 <`sorrow`> anyway thnks for the help i'm going borrow some other books 12:57:25 <`sorrow`> bye 12:58:30 -!- `sorrow` [n=kvirc@92.4.9.134] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 12:59:40 oh i know... too many parenthesises... 13:00:59 I think lisps should allow multiple grouping characters () [] {} 13:02:36 Jafet: Scheme does (if you didn't know) 13:02:42 My lisp will 13:02:52 no, they should be like sed and use whatevers second (in this case first on the line) character after commmand... but i'm ghay. 13:03:24 Oh, drscheme prompt just refuses to parse anything other than parens 13:03:40 Jafet: Really? Hm, let me see. 13:03:42 [] should work... 13:03:51 yack...(tm) 13:03:54 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:05:21 «lambda «haha» «haha haha»» 13:06:46 Jafet: Can you input []? 13:07:03 It translates them to () 13:07:21 Jafet: Type [let [[ 13:07:24 in the repl 13:07:31 ;) 13:07:51 In the preferences, there are times when the [] is defined to be used. 13:07:53 Another thing I don't get is its 200 M memory usage 13:08:33 I get (let ([ 13:08:44 If you're attempting to confuse me further, you're succeeding 13:08:44 Yes 13:09:06 64kB should be enough for nobody. 13:09:07 (let (X) body) 13:09:18 X = [..] [..] .. 13:09:30 I hope you understand that weird notation 13:09:56 (let ([a 2] [b 3] [c 4]) (+ a b c)) 13:10:54 The [] in drscheme are just used for special cases, I guess. As I said, it's configurable in the preferences. 13:11:04 I see 13:12:07 Jafet: Does it use 200MB upon finishing starting up? 13:12:27 More or less 13:13:06 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:14:55 Jafet: I guess you mean virtual memory 13:16:27 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:16:54 Jafet: Mine is using 91 MiB, 139 Virtual MiB 13:17:27 Jafet: My memory limit is 128 MiB (Scheme > Limit Memory...) 13:17:42 Jafet: And you might consider disabling some packages 13:18:03 I think I'll just use mit-scheme from the command line 13:18:39 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 13:19:15 I love the parentheses highlighting in drscheme, and its simple interface. But it has a lot of things that bother me, so I just use emacs. 13:20:17 Hmm, mit-scheme doesn't have readline? Fail 13:20:28 wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:20:36 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@64.105.38.106] has joined #scheme 13:21:14 Jafet: Maybe use Ikarus or Bigloo or [I forget the others] 13:24:45 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 13:25:53 higepon527 [n=taro@FLH1Ama216.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:29:21 cracki [n=cracki@43-029.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 13:29:27 mejja [n=user@85.229.182.246] has joined #scheme 13:31:59 -!- cracki [n=cracki@43-029.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33:32 -!- teiresias [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:34:04 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:34:43 *mejja* sings 'old man river' for mr jcowan 13:34:57 Why, thank you. One of my favorite songs, as it happens. 13:35:52 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@89.223.157.206] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:36:25 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has joined #scheme 13:37:08 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 13:37:53 Mejja's showboating again. 13:38:13 *jcowan* wonders whether mejja sounds more like Paul Robeson, Brian Wilson, or Judy Garland. 13:38:32 *jcowan* defenestrates Daemmerung. 13:38:38 Anachronistically, I hear him as Al Jolson. 13:39:14 *Daemmerung* lands right beside Poland 13:40:42 Why anachronistically? 13:40:48 xwl [n=user@114.245.142.173] has joined #scheme 13:41:53 Apparently Jolson liked the song and both recorded and performed it. 13:42:21 I did not know that, though I'm hardly surprised. 13:44:40 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-74-99.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:54:55 cracki [n=cracki@134.130.183.101] has joined #scheme 14:00:01 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 14:07:25 teiresias [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:12:18 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has joined #scheme 14:12:36 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has joined #scheme 14:12:54 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-130-246.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:13:06 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-130-246.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:27 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-74-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:13:46 -!- stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:39 stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 14:14:41 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-130-246.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:16:06 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 14:16:10 -!- stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:17:28 stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 14:18:54 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.57.58.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:20:21 elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-72.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 14:20:32 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:35 I've never actually heard the Beach Boys cover; the whole idea is sort of hard to imagine. 14:34:43 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has joined #scheme 14:35:12 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:35:24 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 14:35:29 Gaaaaaah. Curse my curiosity. It can be previewed at Amazon... IF YOU DARE. 14:35:44 Caveat auditor! http://www.amazon.com/Folks-Medley-Digitally-Remastered-Remixed/dp/B000T02BOE 14:35:48 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/dn2sp8 14:36:25 *Daemmerung* leaves in search of the cleansing flame of Sepultura 14:39:29 halfcore [i=support@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 14:39:52 -!- vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:39:56 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has joined #scheme 14:41:35 elfor_ [n=johanfre@nl-218-72.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 14:41:35 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-72.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:45:23 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 14:49:42 elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-72.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 14:49:42 -!- elfor_ [n=johanfre@nl-218-72.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49:48 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.126] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:55:24 in this line, can anyone tell me what ":3" is for? 14:55:26 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 14:55:34 (require (planet schematics/schemeunit:3)) 14:57:18 LobsterMan: perhaps it is the library version 14:57:55 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@64.105.38.106] has quit [] 14:58:47 i think it may b 14:58:48 e 14:58:57 from looking here at least 14:58:57 http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=schemeunit.plt&owner=schematics 14:59:00 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/8bkclo 14:59:22 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-72.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [] 15:00:07 it does indeed mean the version 15:01:27 ty ^^ 15:09:05 hmm...how do i know if schemeunit is not installed on the server i'm using? 15:09:19 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:23 when you run require it will make an error if not there I assume :p 15:11:55 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-117-84.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 15:20:55 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:49 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:23:54 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:24:29 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:25:54 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:30:18 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:45 HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has joined #scheme 15:32:31 -!- higepon527 [n=taro@FLH1Ama216.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:33:42 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-186-237-111.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:33:57 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 15:35:30 ejs [n=eugen@135-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 15:35:31 is there an external program that can beautify Scheme/Lisp code? 15:35:40 -!- halfcore [i=support@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #scheme 15:36:33 Why external? 15:36:38 Most implementations have pretty-printers. 15:37:58 I'm using acme to edit code, it needs a external utility 15:38:20 anyone have the ebook version of the little schemer? 15:38:25 how do the builtin pretty-printers work? 15:38:56 pretty-print obj -> string or pretty-print obj port -> void 15:39:53 some outomatically appends a newline at the end, and return the width on the 2nd funtion I gave 15:40:17 what I need is a tool beautify that can be used e.g. 'cat myfile.scm | beautify' -> stdout with beautified code, sort of like fmt 15:40:33 it might be more tricky to just format an already indeted region 15:40:56 write a small scheme script for that :) 15:41:07 ok i'm look at the doc 15:42:32 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-117-84.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:43:17 so you will end with something like: (call-with-file-input-port (lambda (p) (pretty-print (read p) (current-output-port)) (car (command-line))) 15:43:54 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-117-84.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 15:43:58 obviously you will have to read more than just the 1st element 15:44:13 chickamade: I'm working on making acme more usable with Scheme for a gsoc project. 15:44:17 what about comments? pretty-print will kill them :( 15:44:44 cool foof :) 15:44:59 hmmm 15:45:03 how do you handle reformatting? 15:45:15 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-86-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:45:41 text editing is a very dark art :) 15:45:50 foof 15:45:53 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@Aeropuerto.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has quit ["Leaving..."] 15:46:00 that IS a problem 15:46:45 so you will have to read the file differently, and collect comments to emitted later... 15:46:53 Part of the project is to port chibi-scheme. Then I want to modify Acme to select balanced parenthesis (and brackets/braces) when you double click on one. 15:47:11 Then I need to figure out how to handle a REPL. 15:47:27 personally I would try implementing this from the editor and not from the language being edited 15:47:40 foof: repl is easy :) 15:47:58 well a basic one 15:48:23 oh? 15:48:33 let me google acme :) 15:48:53 it took me no more than 30 minutes to implement than for my text editor 15:49:06 s/than/that/ 15:49:20 call process and redirect ports 15:49:53 all the editors I have seen, do it that way 15:50:40 also safer (read stabler) running as a sub process 15:52:21 lol, that screenie on wikipedia of acme, looks pretty archiac 15:53:15 So upload a new one. 15:53:36 i have only seen one image... 15:54:08 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 15:54:10 but the more I look at it , it looks better, good screen realestate usage 15:55:50 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 15:56:06 I'm thinking about writing a new interpreter for Javascript-The-Good-Parts dialect of Javascript. In Scheme, naturally. 15:56:17 Needless to say, it will not be fast. 15:56:43 Why not? 15:56:53 Or, why do you assert that? 15:59:18 Writing a fast JS interpreter, like a fast Scheme interpreter, involves being more clever than I intend to bother being. 16:00:01 This is going to be a plain old S-expression evaluator, just with JS semantics instead of Scheme. 16:00:26 (Also a "compiler" that will spit out normative JS syntax to run elsewhere.) 16:02:01 I se 16:02:01 e 16:03:45 So far I have been working on the S-expression formulation of the subset of Javascript I want to handle. 16:04:03 The names of special forms will be those familiar to Schemers, as much as possible. 16:04:13 "cond/eqv", not "switch" 16:04:40 not case? 16:04:46 I'd do switch 16:06:13 Not case. 16:06:57 Case doesn't evaluate the things being tested against. This is more like cond, except that the conditional-clauses are of the form (eqv? key value) for some specified key. 16:06:57 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 16:07:37 ahh ok :) 16:07:58 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:06 jcowan: That's very similar to case 16:08:11 since it's all equivalences 16:08:20 case require constants 16:08:36 The essential difference between case and cond is that in case the cases are manifest values, not Scheme expressions. 16:08:38 I'm just saying that it's conceptually like case 16:08:42 So is cond. 16:09:13 :| 16:09:18 and JS switch (unlike, say, C or Java switch) is more like cond than like case. 16:09:22 -!- xwl [n=user@114.245.142.173] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:42 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has joined #scheme 16:09:59 so you can do: switch (1) case a: ... in JS? 16:10:12 where a is a variable 16:10:57 Yes. 16:11:41 interesting :) never knew about that 'construct' untill last week, when someone questioned the C# switch operator 16:11:45 Nothing else would make sense, considering that JS doesn't have any way to name a constant, so you'd be stuck with using literal numbers or strings or whatever. 16:12:19 i guess it just pumps it into a hashtable anyways :) 16:12:28 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:47 I would guess not, but of course that's implementation-dependent. 16:13:26 I am implementing JS objects as specially marked a-lists, very politically incorrect. 16:13:29 i guess cases need not be unique, and it's first come first served? 16:13:42 Quite. As I say, cond. 16:13:51 with eqv? as the fixed relation 16:13:52 "switch" 16:14:25 interesting, i'll write a macro for it, and play around with it, not sure what I can use it for :) 16:14:29 (cond/eqv key-expr ((value-expr) (value-expr) ...) ...) . body) 16:15:14 (cond/cmp key-expr compare-func ((valie-e... 16:15:16 no else? 16:15:40 or is that the body? 16:16:06 jberg_ [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 16:16:39 else, yes 16:17:06 no body: that was a brain fart on my part 16:17:22 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 16:17:29 well you could be referring to 'body' semantics :) 16:17:45 eg allow defines 16:18:44 no 16:19:33 define and lambda are the only things that allow inner defines 16:19:43 i guess you dont want that :) 16:21:06 Hmm. Guile and Chicken allow (define x (define y 32)) but scsh (rightly) does not 16:22:23 you can write a define (var statement) anywhere you like in Javascript, but its scope is the current function, so in my dialect I insist on you writing it at the top. 16:23:36 let allows inner defines too, but I guess you could see that as a sort of lambda (define too btw) 16:24:33 jcowan: Why insist it? 16:27:06 -!- jberg_ [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:27:15 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 16:28:03 lolcow [n=lolcow@196-210-146-228-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:28:14 -!- jberg [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has quit [No route to host] 16:29:18 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-86-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:25 Because I think it's very bizarre to allow you to declare a variable after you have already used it, not to mention what it means to *initialize* a variable after you have already set it. 16:29:40 Full-JS encourages sloppy programming. 16:30:46 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:31:28 "Sometimes languages are subsetted to make them work better for students. But in this case, I am subsetting JavaScript to make it work better for professionals." 16:33:48 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5df985@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-19999140cbed5a66] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:37:26 --Doug Crockford 16:37:42 I am trying to decide whether to use vectors to help implement JS arrays 16:39:23 jcowan, I think it makes a lot of sense, except that JS vectors are allowed to be dense when numeric indices are contiguous but started somewhere other than 1. Have you looked into Lua's table structure for ideas? 16:39:44 chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has joined #scheme 16:40:08 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:41:15 did I miss something (got disconnected) ? 16:41:57 gnomon: Yes 16:42:04 The question is whether it's worth the trouble 16:42:17 jcowan, would it be a lot of trouble? 16:42:39 A JS array can't just *be* a Scheme vector, because it can have random other properties 16:43:16 It's more uniform to treat a JS array as a JS object, and put the magic into the length property (arrays have 'em, objects don't) 16:44:31 That makes sense; a JS array object could then have a (possibly null) slot for a vector and a (possibly null) slot for a hash table, and the extra little bookkeeping values for intelligent balancing of the two... 16:44:55 That's what Lua 5.x does 16:45:26 Actually hash tables are overkill: I am going to use specially marked a-lists. 16:45:37 Specially marked in what sense? 16:46:04 The first entry has a magic key, and its value is a list of hidden properties 16:46:05 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-241-182-38.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:18 foof: I got disconnected, but both of what you mentioned are already in acme, no? 16:46:21 JS keys must be strings 16:46:21 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 16:46:41 notably the code of a function 16:46:47 jcowan, JS array keys? Must they really? 16:47:08 That surprises me. Does that imply that an object without a defined toString() method cannot be a JS array key? 16:47:16 Yes. 16:47:24 It surprised me too 16:47:39 And it leads to some bad properties 16:48:03 For example, the canonical count-instances-of-words does not work properly in JS 16:48:27 How do you mean? 16:48:30 namely, set up an object and whenever you see a word, increment the relevant member of the object. 16:48:57 That is, it will mostly work, but foo.constructor++ will give you a random string with a 1 on its butt. 16:49:20 err, foo[word] where word === "constructor" 16:49:56 A random string, or an implementation-dependent one? 16:50:02 Impl-dependent 16:50:24 or rather, foo[word] += 1 will do that 16:50:49 Because of the overloading of the '+' operator to work on strings, yeah. So dumb. 16:51:05 With ++ you get NaN, and NaN it remains forevermore 16:51:18 So no better 16:52:27 ++ and -- are not in The Good Parts, because they interact badly with ;-insertion 16:53:09 Sad but fair. 16:53:40 +=1 and -=1 are only a single char longer anyhow 16:54:58 So which is more Schemey for += and -= 16:55:32 set/+! or set!/+ or set!+ or set+! 16:58:09 inc! 16:58:15 dec! 16:58:19 (let ((a (+ a 1))) ...) 16:58:37 gnomon: I buy that 16:58:42 synx: no, just no 16:58:59 Gak. 16:59:15 Even in strict mode, Rhino lets you set properties on primitive types. 16:59:22 Fortunately for me, it does not allow you to retrieve them! 16:59:30 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 16:59:33 s/types/values 16:59:46 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 16:59:51 *jcowan* had visions of *everything*, including numbers, having to be an a-list. 17:01:08 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.143.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:01:59 to implement generic properties, everything only has to /have/ an a-list, not necessarily /be/ one. 17:03:09 It comes to the same thing. 17:03:20 I mean, numbers aren't even guaranteed to be eq: 17:03:36 when you set the foo property of 42, will another 42 have the same property, and if so, how do I find it? 17:03:49 another = not eq 17:03:50 equal? c_c 17:04:06 Not the point. 17:04:19 If I do (set! (ref 42 'yatch) 50) 17:04:29 then how is (ref 42 'yatch) to find the 50 again? 17:05:36 More like (set-property! 42 'yatch 50) 17:05:41 then (get-property 42)... 17:05:45 Same thing 17:05:55 42 just doesn't have properties anywhere around 17:06:26 unless I have a big table mapping 42 to its properties, in which case, how do I decide when to gc them? When the user informs me he will never use a 42 ever again? 17:06:44 No, it's just garbage. Primitive values don't have properties. 17:06:55 *jcowan* likes extended set! 17:06:55 (define (get-property o) (cdr (findf (lambda (pair) (equal? o (cdr pair))) *properties*))) 17:07:12 Yeah; that makes *properties* a big rag-bag 17:07:32 That's what I'm saying, is a big table mapping 42 to its properties. Most schemes have a weak hash table... 17:07:45 At least when an object is garbage, its properties are garbage, which is reasonable, because property->value mappings are what an object is. 17:07:55 Weakness doesn't help 17:08:01 42 will never be garbage 17:08:04 Obviously 42 never gets garbage collected. Not really sure in that case. 17:08:13 Exactly. 17:08:30 If 42 will never be garbage, why would (property-object-thing 42) ever be garbage? 17:08:49 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:09:03 If a synx is murdered on #scheme and nobody knows about it, did it really happen? :-) 17:09:22 <.< 17:09:30 *hides* 17:09:50 That's convenient, he's hiding the body himself! 17:09:52 >.> 17:13:55 -!- bremner [n=bremner@pivot.cs.unb.ca] has left #scheme 17:14:20 hmm set-cdr! is not in rnrs??? 17:16:47 r5rs set-cdr! 17:16:48 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_400 17:17:22 wait it is 17:18:02 but not in PLT 17:18:03 damn 17:19:30 Give up, friend. You'll never make it to Tuesday. The bus doesn't stop there any more. 17:20:12 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 17:20:53 chickamade, SET-CAR! and SET-CDR! have been demoted in PLT. 17:21:12 chickamade: I heard that the plt guys found it simplified the implementation a lot to use immutable lists. 17:22:51 interesting 17:23:43 They also found that it was very, very rarely used... at least in the implementation of PLT itself. 17:23:44 but I need it, now (to write a metacircular evaluator with mutation) 17:24:23 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has quit [] 17:30:29 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 17:30:37 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:30:47 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 17:44:49 -!- cracki [n=cracki@134.130.183.101] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 17:45:39 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:46:04 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 17:47:27 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:52 ejs1 [n=eugen@135-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:07 pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-147.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 17:52:39 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has quit [] 17:54:09 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:54:52 -!- ejs [n=eugen@135-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:56:54 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 17:57:17 jberg [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 17:58:05 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 18:00:33 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00:45 bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 18:07:57 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:08:02 -!- LobsterMan is now known as LobsterMan_AFK 18:15:56 certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 18:16:11 -!- certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:14 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:16:16 elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.10.198.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:25 elfor_ [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 18:24:18 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:24:34 jonrafkind [n=jon@155.98.68.48] has joined #scheme 18:26:43 la la la 18:29:15 davidad [n=me@cpe-24-210-220-246.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:29:54 DUM de dum 18:34:36 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.10.198.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:35:48 mmc [n=mima@cs163051.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:37:33 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs163051.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:45 Bow chicka WOW wow 18:37:55 MOOOoooo 18:41:47 incubot: I must confess, I was born at a very early age. 18:41:49 I confess I haven't been following much of what has been going on here of late. 18:42:12 Me too, incubot. Me, too. 18:44:00 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has quit ["..."] 18:44:27 -!- jberg [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:46:17 jao [n=jao@198.Red-83-39-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:49:39 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has quit [] 18:50:13 incubot: that's because following you is like going on a wild goose chase! 18:50:16 Exactly, and why? Because of your generalized anxiety disorder. 18:51:24 incubot: wow, nice Eliza-esque comeback 18:51:27 well, we all have our little foibles of what we would and would not like to hear from people. I personally would like to see thorn, ash, and yogh make a comeback. 18:53:48 wrldpc [n=worldpea@c-76-19-107-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:49 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 18:55:56 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:03 rmns [n=ramunas@78-57-75-17.static.zebra.lt] has joined #scheme 18:58:17 ThF [n=ThF@AAnnecy-158-1-83-93.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:02:57 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@c-76-19-107-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:05:37 ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db1df9c.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 19:06:16 -!- rmns [n=ramunas@78-57-75-17.static.zebra.lt] has left #scheme 19:13:46 -!- jao [n=jao@198.Red-83-39-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:57 incubot will be here all week 19:18:06 incubot: do I have to fix this PHP bug? 19:18:09 ah well... this was just a small hacking snack... seems it's not so simple 19:19:24 bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.234.33] has joined #scheme 19:19:36 -!- bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.234.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:41 jao [n=jao@247.Red-81-32-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:59 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-234.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:23:47 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:28:50 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:29:07 -!- elfor_ [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 19:30:20 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:33:31 mmc [n=mima@cs163051.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:33:42 jlilly [n=jlilly@mail.justinlilly.com] has joined #scheme 19:33:45 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:34:01 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:34:16 barney [n=bernhard@p549A0F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:34:40 I want to start with scheme on linux and emacs. What's the best "flavour" of scheme to use? 19:34:52 chicken ? 19:35:01 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has quit [] 19:35:06 mit-scheme ? 19:35:09 Chicken tastes great! 19:35:15 and guile 19:35:18 i would say 19:35:24 pumpkin_ [n=pumpkin@pumpkinpro.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 19:35:29 Gambit needs more love. 19:35:50 mit-scheme sounds... safe. :) I'll look for that one. 19:35:50 plt-scheme with mzscheme as with drscheme is the best start i think 19:35:56 errr... 19:35:58 wtf? 19:36:06 it's graphical and gives you help 19:36:09 -!- pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-147.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:36:09 I think you just named 6 different schemes. 19:36:11 -!- pumpkin_ is now known as pumpkin 19:36:24 chicken, mit-scheme, guile, gambit, mzscheme, plt-scheme. 19:36:49 Don't forget scheme48! 19:36:57 There's also gauche, which is a nice starter scheme. 19:37:06 Oh, and Larceny, if you like low-level hacking. 19:37:13 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-117-84.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:37:22 which is the most popular? 19:37:26 how do those schemes differ? 19:37:34 plt-scheme i think 19:37:38 Well, they all have different names, for starters. 19:37:38 rokk. thanks. 19:37:42 i assume 19:38:02 gnomon: oh, hadn't noticed ;) 19:39:32 wrldpc_ [n=worldpea@pool-72-85-179-84.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:39 jao` [n=jao@183.Red-88-15-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:33 -!- hadronzoo_ is now known as hadronzoo 19:47:24 Ragnaroek [i=54a63e32@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7892989e1aaaa776] has joined #scheme 19:49:11 -!- wrldpc_ [n=worldpea@pool-72-85-179-84.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:51:10 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@135-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:55:54 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@207.236.146.245] has quit ["leaving"] 19:57:03 -!- ThF [n=ThF@AAnnecy-158-1-83-93.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 19:57:08 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:08 -!- jao [n=jao@247.Red-81-32-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:58:08 kenhkan [n=kenhkan@155.48.255.21] has joined #scheme 19:59:14 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 19:59:42 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@155.98.68.48] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:00:20 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:00:52 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:15 wrldpc [n=worldpea@c-66-30-12-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:23 -!- jao` [n=jao@183.Red-88-15-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:03:51 zepard [n=zepard@unaffiliated/zepard] has joined #scheme 20:04:41 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@c-66-30-12-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:09 ejs [n=eugen@135-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 20:07:18 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-186-237-111.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:07:42 elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:13 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 20:11:58 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 20:14:35 benny` [n=benny@i577A1CD9.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:16:37 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-220.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:22:50 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has quit [] 20:25:38 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db1df9c.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:50 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0C9C.versanet.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:25:51 -!- benny` is now known as benny 20:26:05 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 20:26:39 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 20:27:45 -!- zepard [n=zepard@unaffiliated/zepard] has left #scheme 20:27:55 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:30:50 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs163051.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:40 hedgee [n=cky@98.104.182.162] has joined #scheme 20:39:12 incubot: you need to get a life and stop lurking in this channel. 20:39:15 careful, there are alleged hundreds, if not thousands, of srfi 49 users lurking here 20:41:11 incubot: python is too constraining. 20:41:13 -!- cky [n=cky@98.105.191.236] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:41:14 no, your constraining the case so much that you can do a dirty optimization that doesn't scale outside of your restrictions 20:41:34 such is life. 20:43:07 -!- kenhkan [n=kenhkan@155.48.255.21] has left #scheme 20:46:12 incubot: chant! 20:46:14 Well, j85wilson, I think chant too. 20:47:20 incubot: In older versions, the "stack start" field held "stack bottom" instead. Since the stack grows downwards, this was the maximum address. 20:47:23 The function I used is tail recursive. But counts downwards, because that's harder :) 20:50:17 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:51:52 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:58:23 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:02:24 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a63e32@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7892989e1aaaa776] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:09:57 -!- hedgee is now known as cky 21:13:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@135-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:15:32 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:23:44 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 21:30:23 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:38:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:40 -!- davidad [n=me@cpe-24-210-220-246.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:39 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:42:52 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 21:43:44 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 21:48:17 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:49:08 geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:00:52 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["omghaahhahaohwow"] 22:00:59 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 22:01:11 -!- XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:01:11 -!- qebab [n=finnrobi@eros.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:01:11 -!- amazon10x [i=amazon10@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-8e45b8daabb1de58] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:01:11 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@174.0.46.123] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:01:11 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:01:11 -!- elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:23 qebab [n=finnrobi@eros.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 22:02:23 amazon10x [i=amazon10@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-8e45b8daabb1de58] has joined #scheme 22:02:23 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 22:02:23 rumbleca [n=rumble@174.0.46.123] has joined #scheme 22:02:23 elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has joined #scheme 22:02:23 Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has joined #scheme 22:06:20 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [No route to host] 22:06:35 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 22:07:34 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.76.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:08:00 elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:08 incubot: do you love me? 22:15:17 Cool. Is there an online tutorial which will help me write bot code? I would love to create a bot ? 22:16:16 As usual, oddly appropriate. 22:18:21 oh, shit; he's replicating 22:21:55 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["omghaahhahaohwow"] 22:22:04 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 22:26:25 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:26:30 incubot: you stay on point like Stac(e)y Adams 22:26:30 Error: unbound variable: you 22:26:37 hehe 22:27:01 incubot: welcome to dumpsville; population: you 22:27:04 welcome to the club 22:28:20 heh 22:28:26 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has quit [Client Quit] 22:29:12 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:30:00 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:32:34 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:33:09 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:34:04 incubot: help; i've fallen into that asshole-on-the-internet trap 22:34:07 I said it like an asshole, thought. I may explain myself, awkwardly, if I see her again. But she smoked, and she didn't drink beer (wine instead) which communicated to me that she's got a "I'm very cultured" thing going on. Reading Naked Lunch, sipping a glass of merlot. 22:39:32 Suddenly got interesting in here. 22:45:48 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 22:49:49 incubot: "A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal--Panama!" 22:49:51 sorebout, later tell arcus: A rhyme, a crime, at the same time: Panama! 22:50:17 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-6.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:57:25 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 23:00:43 incubot: who killed sarahbot? 23:00:46 Oops, I killed the discussion by getting back onto the topic of Scheme. 23:01:35 -!- Modius_ is now known as Modius 23:06:50 jberg [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 23:07:38 -!- jberg [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:57 jberg [n=johan@62.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 23:10:23 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:12:25 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:42 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:17:48 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:20:31 incubot: what we clearly want to do is not exactly clear, and is rooted in NCOMPLR 23:20:34 In many ways, it reminds me of Pop-Tarts, in that the hexapodia is deeply and sweetly rooted in phenotypical flora foo. 23:30:52 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:33:36 raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 23:40:06 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE61D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 23:58:01 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-234.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:30 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-234.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme