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(list->string (string->list "bah")) 0 #\x) 03:35:08 Error: string-set! argument 3 must be: character 03:35:12 Let me go get the invocation. 03:35:58 (newFilename (append (list->string (reverse '(member "." (reverse '(string->list filename))))) (string-downcase replaceVar))) 03:36:00 nope, list->string makes a mutable string. 03:36:33 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:36:38 I'm trying to replace the file extension with something else. 03:36:43 So searching for period backwards. 03:37:03 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:37:29 aren't there functions that take file names apart? 03:37:30 najzere: why not use substring/share and string-append/shared from srfi-13? 03:37:42 offby1: dunno 03:37:55 klutometis: Sounds good. 03:37:58 najzere: that way, you avoid allocating a fresh string; but you can avoid mutation, too 03:38:10 I don't know much about scheme, I'm writing a GIMP script. 03:39:04 rudybot: doc filename-extension 03:39:04 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/More_Path_Utilities.html#(def._((lib._scheme%2Fpath..ss)._filename-extension)) 03:39:19 I don't think GIMP has any fancy string libraries. 03:39:24 It's a dumbed-down version. 03:39:52 what GIMP has is, arguably, not scheme at all :-| 03:39:57 Heh, you're right. 03:40:35 Ah, some good stuff in that link. 03:40:37 Thanks. 03:43:43 Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has joined #scheme 03:45:11 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 03:46:21 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-11-184.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:49:05 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:50:55 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:51:24 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:52:06 -!- wossname [n=wossname@bas1-toronto35-1279420635.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:52:17 wossname [n=wossname@CPE00226b51b526-CM0018c0b50114.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:52:29 Well can't use anything "path" related in GIMP it seems. Is there anything syntactically wrong with my original line? 03:56:30 -!- Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:58:38 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 04:00:57 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:02:55 najzere: i don't see a string-set! in your original line, though 04:04:00 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:12:08 neither substring/shared nor string-append/shared need share storage with the original strings 04:12:14 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:12:15 it's just "advice" 04:12:23 minion: advice for substring 04:12:24 substring: #11963: It's easy to get the *wrong* answer in O(1) time. 04:12:33 yeah 04:12:46 klutometis: that's what's troubling me. 04:13:02 *jcowan* apepepares 04:13:27 * Dorian mungs jcowan's keyboard 04:14:44 najzere: why are you calling append with string arguments? 04:14:56 I want to add to the string. 04:15:07 string-append 04:15:07 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:15:10 Chop off the file extension and add a new one. 04:15:16 Ahh. 04:15:46 since you're probably not getting an error there, I will guess the problem resides in string-downcase 04:16:28 the -original- problem ;) 04:16:37 Okay, checking. 04:18:19 Eh. Still getting the error with string-append and taking out downcase. 04:18:35 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:18:46 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 04:19:02 wait 04:19:07 why is '(member quoted 04:19:22 incubot: i said member 04:19:25 So lookup would be performed as (assoc NAME ALIST member) -- (MEMBER ) returns a true value if KEY is in LIST, and #F if not --. 04:19:29 That's because I was getting a different ending. 04:19:42 Like it needed a pair to use the list. 04:19:55 Can't call cdr without a pair? 04:20:02 okay but look 04:20:07 I dunno, that error went away with the apostrophe. 04:20:13 Err. single quote. 04:20:19 rudybot: eval (reverse '(member "." (reverse '(string->list filename)))) 04:20:20 zbigniew: your sandbox is ready 04:20:20 zbigniew: ; Value: ((reverse (quote (string->list filename))) "." member) 04:20:36 you're calling list->string on that :) 04:20:51 rudybot: eval (list->string (reverse '(member "." (reverse '(string->list filename))))) 04:20:51 zbigniew: error: list->string: expects argument of type ; given ((reverse (quote (string->list filename))) "." member) 04:20:56 and there you go 04:21:02 Huh. 04:21:16 I thought member returned the tail of the list starting at the character it finds. 04:21:27 take those quotes out, first of all; they make absolutely no sense 04:21:36 rudybot: eval (reverse '(string->list filename)) 04:21:36 zbigniew: ; Value: (filename string->list) 04:21:37 Okay. 04:23:14 second, the string "." can't be a member of a list of characters, by definition 04:23:25 Ahh. 04:24:58 -!- wossname [n=wossname@CPE00226b51b526-CM0018c0b50114.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:25:13 you want a character there; optionally, you can now use memv, as eqv? is sufficient to test for character equality 04:25:33 and then--by the by--it works 04:26:00 memv will return the tail of the list? 04:26:29 it's member, using eqv? instead of equal? as the test 04:26:59 Ah, okay. 04:27:00 najzere: the original error, "Can't call cdr without a pair?" was undoubtedly due to your using APPEND instead of STRING-APPEND -- APPEND requires the pairs. 04:27:14 Alright I changed it. 04:27:48 Error: reverse: argument 1 must be: pair 04:27:57 Getting that again. 04:28:10 wossname [n=wossname@CPE00226b51b526-CM0018c0b50114.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:28:54 Does your filename contain a period? :) 04:28:56 mmc [n=mima@cs160181.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 04:29:08 Yeah, it's a .bmp file. 04:29:34 what's the code you have now, after the changes -- because it should work fine now 04:29:53 (newFilename (string-append (list->string (reverse (memv "." (reverse (string->list filename))))) (string-downcase replaceVar))) 04:30:34 21:23:05 < zbigniew> second, the string "." can't be a member of a list of characters, by definition 04:30:57 Sorry, I thought memv took care of that. 04:31:12 Can I explicitly change it to character? 04:32:03 I'm assuming I can't just put the period by itself. 04:33:00 Use #\. 04:33:55 Hey, no errors! 04:34:11 Thank you very much 04:34:37 honestly, as you seem to have srfi-13, it would be easier to use string-index-right, probably 04:36:10 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs160181.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:37:11 but as you've got it done, that's all that matters :) 04:37:42 Well I'll try it out, I was just looking up substring function. 04:39:30 Can I use "." with string-index-right or stick with #\.? 04:39:40 stick with #\. 04:41:08 (newFilename (string-append (substring filename 0 (string-index-right #\.)) (string-downcase replaceVar))) 04:41:28 seems ridiculous that you have to invent this wheel yourself 04:41:33 Heh. 04:41:53 najzere: very close; check the result of the substring though and you'll find offby1's namesake 04:42:03 Heh, okay. 04:42:35 er, also, string-index-right requires a string argument ;) 04:42:43 Haha 04:42:46 the kid ain't mine 04:43:13 oh, mj 04:45:24 If it's searching from the right, will it still return the index of the letter as though counting from the left? 04:45:35 or, in plt... (path-replace-suffix filename replaceVar) 04:45:36 najzere: don't you have a REPL to test this out it? 04:45:43 *in? 04:45:54 No, I have to run it in GIMP every time. 04:46:03 gawd 04:46:07 augh GIMP *hides* 04:46:08 inorite? 04:48:16 Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:48:56 I tried to implement script-fu in the GIMP once that in a single loop scans a picture using all the defaults, normalizes then saves it to a file and scans again. There is no fucking way... 04:49:11 Heh. 04:49:20 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:49:44 It's a little cumbersome. 04:49:44 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:49:54 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:50:57 blarg, tinyscheme 04:51:52 Can scheme make an alert? 04:52:12 rudybot: eval (require (lib "13.ss" "srfi")) 04:52:38 rudybot: eval (string-index-right "foobar.txt" #\.) 04:52:38 zbigniew: ; Value: 6 04:53:00 Ah, okay. 04:53:00 Heh. 04:53:03 that's more a gimp question, najzere 04:53:11 Yeah, probably. 04:53:24 I'm trying to find a way to see how far I'm getting in my code. 04:53:57 zbigniew pasted "this should be more robust" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78872 04:54:00 just fyi 04:55:34 Wow. 04:59:07 Hey, that works real well too. 05:00:24 klutometis: when in doubt, dike it out 05:00:31 whoops 05:00:36 incubot: when in doubt, dike it out 05:00:39 Scheme48 doesn't run on it? What happened when you tried it? 05:00:48 how dare you 05:00:54 incubot: talking to myself and feeling old 05:00:57 Yeah, I had that feeling. I looked at some common lisp code and then decided to come here and ask instead of trying it. x.x 05:00:58 *offby1* clouts klutometis 05:01:27 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:01:41 *klutometis* eats offby1's leek 05:01:49 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:04:15 -!- wossname [n=wossname@CPE00226b51b526-CM0018c0b50114.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["z0r"] 05:08:32 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:09:10 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:12:25 -!- Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:15:30 ejs [n=eugen@51-165-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 05:29:32 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:32:01 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:34:05 Qaexl [n=Akashakr@24.30.97.247] has joined #scheme 05:34:09 -!- SharkBrain [n=user@210.48.104.34] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:18 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:38:28 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:39:00 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:39:46 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.126] has joined #scheme 05:40:37 -!- Qaexl [n=Akashakr@24.30.97.247] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:44:44 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 05:48:50 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:48:58 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:50:42 pants2 [n=hkarau@69-196-167-1.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 05:51:43 -!- pants1 [n=hkarau@76-10-155-36.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:54:36 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:54:49 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:25 ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db1cbe9.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 06:03:18 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 06:06:04 underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:07:05 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:08:05 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 06:12:39 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:15:28 ASau` [n=user@host118-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:17:16 LobsterMan [n=a@host72-50.student.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 06:17:22 underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:17:40 sorry for pasting into this channel, but can anyone help me with this problem? 06:17:41 Code the procedure make-combos that returns all combinations of a set. Or- 06:17:41 der is not important, but note below exactly what is a list and what is not. 06:17:41 Your sequence toolkit can save you lots of work here. Hint: think about how 06:17:42 you would go about changing the result shown if you wanted to add 4 to the 06:17:44 list? 06:17:46 > (make-combos ’(1 2 3)) 06:17:48 (1 (1 2) (1 2 3) (1 3) 2 (2 3) 3) 06:18:10 i can make it give me the list of all combos, but i'm having a very hard time making it drop the null set and not have ()'s around the single numbers 06:19:21 the directions don't explicitly say not to use some sort of supplemental helper function to strip the extraneous characters from the final result, but i'd like to have my procedure work without needing some sort of extra processing once its done 06:19:52 this is what mine spits out 06:19:52 > (make-combos '(1 2 3)) 06:19:52 ((1 2 3) (1 2) (1 3) (1) (2 3) (2) (3) ()) 06:23:43 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:23:49 legis_ [n=JJ@unaffiliated/legis] has joined #scheme 06:27:13 LobsterMan: gotta see the code 06:27:15 -!- ASau` [n=user@host118-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:28:17 let me paste it one sec 06:29:07 LobsterMan pasted "make-combos" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78876 06:29:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/78876 that :) 06:29:50 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:29:56 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 06:30:17 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 06:30:40 so (make-combos '(1 2 3)) 06:30:45 gives me ((1 2 3) (1 2) (1 3) (1) (2 3) (2) (3) ()) 06:31:06 which doesn't behave the way my problem says it should 06:31:19 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [] 06:33:05 Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:33:59 For learning scheme, what implementation is recommendede? there are to much 06:34:08 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:34:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:35:28 i think it's plt-scheme that this textbook uses, which is the book used by my university for the intro scheme class 06:35:29 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html 06:35:37 which isn't too bad for learning 06:36:15 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html 06:36:48 thanks 06:36:53 np 06:37:20 klutometis i hate to pester, but have you had a chance to look at my code at all? 06:37:50 LobsterMan: one set 06:37:52 sec* 06:38:04 no rush ^_^ 06:39:22 underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:39:56 ASau` [n=user@host118-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:41:29 the bigloo one looks nice 06:41:47 LobsterMan: what sequence toolkit are they talking about? 06:42:30 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 06:43:22 LobsterMan: also, when i run you're code, i get: (make-combos '(1 2 3)) => '() 06:43:25 your* 06:43:27 just the typical stuff like map, filter, etc 06:44:06 you may need to change (cond ((null? set) (list null)) to something like (list '()) 06:44:32 or '(null) 06:44:43 i had to play with it to make it work, it probably depends on what scheme you're using 06:44:48 ok, got it; 06:44:49 i'm running mine via drscheme 06:45:04 you want (1 (1 2) (1 2 3) (1 3) 2 (2 3) 3) instead of ((1 2 3) (1 2) (1 3) (1) (2 3) (2) (3) ())? 06:45:21 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 06:45:41 klutometis correct 06:46:10 as stated in the problem, the order doesnt matter, i just want mine to not print out the null set, and individual numbers should be just 1, not (1) for example 06:46:43 null set as in () 06:48:27 i'd be happy if i could get ((1 2 3) (1 2) (1 3) 1 (2 3) 2 3) 06:52:26 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:04:58 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db1cbe9.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Noch da, noch da ... Uuuuund weg."] 07:07:45 elfor [n=johanfre@nl-216-127.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 07:12:29 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78.86.1.110] has joined #scheme 07:16:45 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@nl-216-127.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [] 07:18:02 raikov` [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 07:18:17 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@81.167.54.222.static.lyse.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:19:01 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:21:37 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:25:00 heh klutometis do you have any suggestions? :) 07:26:38 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.131.130] has joined #scheme 07:27:25 chris2 [n=cky@98.104.195.234] has joined #scheme 07:32:10 -!- cky [n=cky@166.166.21.82] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:34:26 where is the 'do' amcro defined? 07:37:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 07:37:34 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 07:47:32 HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has joined #scheme 07:48:55 reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-128-90.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:49:54 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:50:10 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:50:46 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:52:57 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 07:57:39 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 08:01:21 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-84.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:01:47 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:05:20 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:05:25 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78.86.1.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@51-165-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:07:11 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78.86.1.110] has joined #scheme 08:14:18 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:14:30 -!- raikov` [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:16:58 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78.86.1.110] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:17:12 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:21:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:28:51 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:29:40 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:30:42 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:31:43 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 08:31:56 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:33:12 -!- chris2 [n=cky@98.104.195.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:36:48 -!- reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-128-90.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Success] 08:37:05 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:38:18 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:39:27 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 08:39:44 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:50:45 -!- najzere [n=najzere@ip68-96-114-229.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit ["derp derp"] 08:51:54 ejs [n=eugen@181-75-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 08:52:31 can anyone take a look at my code and let me know why i'm getting the error "expand: unbound variable in module in: disp-oder" please? 08:52:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/78879 08:53:12 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:53:20 oh wait...typo...my bad :D 08:56:01 LobsterMan pasted "halp pl0x" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78880 08:56:50 actually my code isn't working, instead of displaying the current list after "Current order: " it just jumps straight into the call to do-change-order without printing anything 08:57:32 do i need to enclose the bottom in a (begin or something? 08:58:05 (map (lambda (x) (append (car x))) alist)) <== change append to display? 08:58:23 hah i did forget that it would seem... 08:59:01 i was going to put display after the lambda, otherwise the output isn't very nice 09:06:15 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:07:06 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:07:16 if i do 09:07:17 (let ((input (read)) 09:07:17 (alist (map cons input input))) 09:07:26 why would the 2nd line give me 09:07:27 expand: unbound variable in module in: input 09:08:03 (let ((input (read))) <-- 09:08:18 euhm, ignore that 09:08:26 yeah, i need to do 2 in the let 09:09:07 read->input, and the map->alist 09:09:08 oh, you need let* , let is unordered 09:09:18 -!- benny` is now known as benny 09:09:24 what's let*? 09:09:41 it is nested let's 09:09:53 that's not something we've used in class, i dunno if the prof would like me using that 09:10:25 LobsterMan: otherwise you will just have to use nested let's explicitly... 09:10:46 ok let's see if this works 09:10:51 rudybot: eval (let ((a 3) (b a))) 09:10:52 hkBst: your sandbox is ready 09:10:52 hkBst: error: eval:1:0: let: bad syntax in: (let ((a 3) (b a))) 09:10:58 rudybot: eval (let ((a 3) (b a)) b) 09:10:58 hkBst: error: reference to undefined identifier: a 09:11:02 rudybot: eval (let* ((a 3) (b a)) b) 09:11:03 hkBst: ; Value: 3 09:11:09 ah i gotcha 09:11:16 rudybot: eval (let ((a 3)) (let ((b a)) b)) 09:11:16 hkBst: ; Value: 3 09:14:47 it works, thanks :D 09:14:56 np 09:21:53 hmm...now i need to figure out how to preserve the procedure bits for when i change the list order so that i can print them out again 09:22:08 my (map cons input input) doesn't do that 09:25:15 can i somehow map input to the corresponding procedure? 09:25:31 chickamade [n=chickama@222.254.12.99] has joined #scheme 09:27:00 (define alist (map cons input (lambda (x) (list x) input))) doesnt seem to work 09:27:11 ah wait... 09:30:14 hmm 09:30:16 -!- ejs [n=eugen@181-75-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:30:35 hello, which scheme implementation is good on AMD64? 09:33:57 LobsterMan: are you trying to accumulate input? 09:34:31 chickamade: a lot of them, most of them. All of them if you include x86 ones 09:34:46 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.131.130] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:48 kind of 09:35:22 i'm trying to take the input, which will be some combination of fact, fib, square, and then cons each input with its correspondin procedure 09:35:40 like i call 09:35:41 assoc-list 09:35:41 ((square . #) (fib . #) (fact . #)) 09:35:54 i want to be able to change the order of procedures, then print them back out in that same format 09:38:34 LobsterMan: you should try to retrieve the input'ed name from your alist. I think assoc does that, but rewad your schemes info on alist support. 09:38:58 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:39:06 "rewad"? 09:39:10 read* 09:39:24 alist is just a generic argument name 09:39:29 unless i'm missing your point 09:39:42 alist is short for association list 09:40:17 could there be some sort of interference between what i'm trying to do using my argument names and built-in things with the language? 09:40:18 lol 09:40:28 no 09:41:39 well basically we do this to start off 09:41:40 (define assoc-list (map cons '(square fib fact) (list square fib fact))) 09:41:55 so if i type assoc-list into the interpreter, it returns 09:41:56 ((square . #) (fib . #) (fact . #)) 09:42:22 rudybot: (define assoc-list (map cons '(square fib fact) (list square fib fact))) 09:42:22 hkBst: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 09:42:29 rudybot: eval (define assoc-list (map cons '(square fib fact) (list square fib fact))) 09:42:29 hkBst: error: reference to undefined identifier: square 09:42:48 bah :( 09:42:53 assoc-list is just an assignment as far as i know 09:43:07 it's being used as a symbol 09:43:20 rudybot: eval (define assoc-list (map cons '(a b c) '(1 2 3))) 09:43:36 did you break it? :P 09:43:57 rudybot: eval (version) 09:43:57 hkBst: ; Value: "4.1.5.3" 09:44:21 rudybot: eval (assoc assoc-list 'a) 09:44:21 hkBst: error: assoc: not a proper list: a 09:44:32 rudybot: eval (assoc 'a assoc-list) 09:44:32 hkBst: ; Value: (a . 1) 09:44:38 rudybot: eval (assoc 'b assoc-list) 09:44:39 hkBst: ; Value: (b . 2) 09:45:04 rudybot: eval (assoc 'f assoc-list) 09:45:04 hkBst: ; Value: #f 09:45:16 LobsterMan: does that explain it a bit? 09:45:51 i think you may be assuming i'm trying to do more than i actually am here 09:45:52 hehe 09:45:56 rudybot: eval (call/cc call/cc) 09:45:57 chickamade: your sandbox is ready 09:45:57 chickamade: ; Value: # 09:46:23 rudybot: eval ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)) 09:46:26 chickamade: error: with-limit: out of time 09:46:59 hmm 09:47:50 maybe i'm just being ignorant :) 09:52:59 haha i can get it to output 09:53:00 # 09:53:02 getting somewhere 09:53:08 # * 09:54:52 sorry to spam, but here is what my end behavior should be like 09:54:54 (define assoc-list (map cons ’(square fib fact) (list square fib fact))) 09:54:54 > assoc-list 09:54:54 ((square . #) (fib . #) (fact . #)) 09:54:54 > (change-proc-menu-order assoc-list) 09:54:54 Current order: (square fib fact) 09:54:55 Type a new list order to rearrange menu: (fib fact square) 09:54:57 Type 1 to change order, 2 to return list: 1 09:54:59 Current order: (fib fact square) 09:55:01 Type a new list order to rearrange menu: (fact fib square) 09:55:03 Type 1 to change order, 2 to return list: 2 09:55:05 ((fact . #) (fib . #) (square . #)) 09:55:07 > 09:55:18 i want it to print out a nice procedure association list at the end like there is in the beginning 09:55:23 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.160.169] has joined #scheme 09:58:03 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@222.254.12.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:00:46 rudybot: eval (map (lambda (x) (cons x (assoc x assoc-list))) '(c b a)) 10:00:46 hkBst: ; Value: ((c c . 3) (b b . 2) (a a . 1)) 10:00:58 rudybot: eval (map (lambda (x) (assoc x assoc-list)) '(c b a)) 10:00:58 hkBst: ; Value: ((c . 3) (b . 2) (a . 1)) 10:01:05 rudybot: eval (map (lambda (x) (assoc x assoc-list)) '(a b c)) 10:01:05 hkBst: ; Value: ((a . 1) (b . 2) (c . 3)) 10:01:30 can i somehow ' the second part too? 10:01:39 i don't necessarily know the order of abc 10:01:54 or size 10:02:11 LobsterMan: I'm not sure I understand. 10:02:27 where you have '(a b c) etc 10:02:36 i dont know what the size or order of the elements in that will be 10:02:53 and i need it to correspond to the size and order of the "x" portion of the list 10:02:59 indeed, I think you wanted to read those from input? 10:03:09 yeah, that's what input is 10:03:22 (display "Type a new list order to rearrange menu: ") 10:03:23 (let* ((input (read)) 10:03:23 (alist (lambda (x) (map cons input (list x)) input))) 10:04:13 hmm that's not going to work though is it 10:04:14 lol 10:08:21 this definition 10:08:22 (define assoc-list (map cons '(square fib fact) (list square fib fact))) 10:08:43 does it make a significant difference that one part of the cons is '() and the other is (list )? 10:12:44 there's some sort of deeper data manipulation going on here that's just going right over my head it seems 10:13:16 LobsterMan: yes, it is VERY significant. 10:13:24 <_< 10:13:30 '() is (quote ) 10:13:42 and thus the arguments are not eval'uated 10:14:05 so that first definition 10:14:09 (define assoc-list (map cons '(square fib fact) (list square fib fact))) 10:14:57 is this making some sort of "link", that later on i can just change the order of the quoted names and still maintain their links to the actual procedure 10:15:00 ? 10:16:44 LobsterMan: it makes ((square . #) (fib . #) (fact . #)), which indeed ``links'' names to procedures; it is an alist. 10:17:47 now what i am trying to do is allow the user to then change the list of quoted items to say (fact fib square) and still maintain those links to procedures 10:18:22 LobsterMan: my suggestion is to retrieve the ``link'' from the alist that contains those links. 10:18:41 that's what i'm trying to do ^_^ 10:18:48 but i can't seem to quite get it hehe 10:19:03 I already showed you how to do that above 10:19:31 oh so i should be using like assoc instead of cons 10:23:16 elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 10:24:15 heh and it works :D 10:24:21 thanks :) 10:25:09 i dont think that's exactly how my prof wanted this done, but it works 10:25:18 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:27:10 elfor_ [n=johanfre@130.236.218.118] has joined #scheme 10:27:10 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:37:01 hkBst so i've got this working using assoc, but is there any other way to make this work? 10:37:07 like what i was trying to do with cons before 10:39:25 LobsterMan: you can maybe use `eval' too, but you really shouldn't. 10:40:55 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@h73.net38.bmstu.ru] has joined #scheme 10:41:07 so then nothing like what i was trying to do earlier with (alist ((lambda (x) (map cons x (list x))) input))) 10:41:10 or any of that jazz? 10:42:03 no 10:42:37 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@213.98.123.31] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- inimino [n=inimino@atekomi.inimino.org] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:45 offby1 [n=user@206.124.138.125] has joined #scheme 10:42:49 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:43:12 inimino [n=inimino@atekomi.inimino.org] has joined #scheme 10:43:36 why did it work in the first declaration? only because it was known with certainty the number and order of the arguments? 10:43:36 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.160.169] has quit ["bye all"] 10:45:57 (define assoc-list (map cons '(square fib fact) (list square fib fact))) achieves the same thing that ((lambda (x) (map cons x (list x))) input)) achieves 10:46:36 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit [] 10:46:44 cracki [n=cracki@46-147.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 10:47:50 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 10:48:16 LobsterMan: well, the declaration conses a non-eval'ed with a once eval'ed argument. (everything is eval'ed once by default.) But to do the same from input you need one extra eval each. Because you need to eval once to do the actual (read). 10:49:25 well at any rate, i think i'm starting to get this, hkBst thanks a ton for all your help 10:49:26 -!- elfor_ [n=johanfre@130.236.218.118] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:49:56 LobsterMan: talk to your classmates to see what they have come up with :) 10:50:36 yeah i'm going to be curious to see who all got this working in class today 10:54:55 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 10:55:53 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:57:10 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:57:16 elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 11:08:55 elfor_ [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 11:10:23 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:16:11 ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db1cbe9.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 11:16:30 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:17:40 xarsada [n=hell@78.165.147.48] has joined #scheme 11:17:42 hey 11:17:49 s there any way to get the start and the end values of the slider when 11:17:49 the user changes the slider's value? (i.e. the values when the user 11:17:49 clicks and drags the slider from one point to another) 11:19:06 xarsada: scheme has no sliders 11:20:02 hmm 11:20:13 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@81.167.54.222.static.lyse.net] has joined #scheme 11:21:23 no language in scheme has no sliders hmm 11:22:40 a person i know send a mal to plt-discuss like "getting slider`s value".No one answer him so i wonder and i came to here to ask. 11:25:06 xarsada: plt-scheme is just one of the many schemes out there. You might want to make the context clear when using implementation-specific stuff. 11:25:51 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@h73.net38.bmstu.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:25:55 okey 11:27:15 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-233.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:33:37 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has joined #scheme 11:35:35 hkBst, which implementation of scheme has sliders ? 11:38:17 xarsada: there are lots of graphical toolkits that have sliders and various bindings for different Schemes. I know Guile has Gtk wrappers. 11:42:46 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:42:54 luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has joined #scheme 11:43:07 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:52:56 elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #scheme 11:52:56 -!- elfor_ [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:56 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 12:01:22 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 12:07:49 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:13:48 higepon491 [n=taro@FL1-118-109-126-100.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 12:14:37 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 12:18:19 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@nl-218-118.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [] 12:25:47 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df956@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c51c16f7a604846c] has joined #scheme 12:33:30 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:35:02 kadaver [n=hask@h199n6c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 12:35:09 what do you think of clojure? 12:35:11 meh clojure looks really ugly and the java interop is really overrated I think. 12:35:24 but schemers dont want to build anything real anyway 12:36:48 -!- kadaver [n=hask@h199n6c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #scheme 12:39:38 mike [n=m@vpn-s-8d3a2c3b.campus.uni-stuttgart.de] has joined #scheme 12:40:05 -!- mike is now known as Guest57374 12:41:32 -!- Guest57374 [n=m@vpn-s-8d3a2c3b.campus.uni-stuttgart.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:51 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@81.167.54.222.static.lyse.net] has quit [] 12:46:36 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:47:55 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 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[n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:04:24 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.10.198.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:05:40 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:07:47 -!- xwl [n=user@114.246.81.30] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:13:34 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:19:59 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.147.230] has joined #scheme 16:22:36 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:13 Ragnaroek [i=54a6597d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9f02786bab3b7111] has joined #scheme 16:41:36 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-75.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:42:12 hehe hkBst if you're there, my assignment today was pretty good considering most of the rest of the class was just trying to brute force their solutions, and theirs wouldn't account for larger lists etc, only the 3 choices we had for the lab ^_^ 16:42:14 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 16:43:10 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:43:52 ^self [n=fn@116.58.17.27] has joined #scheme 16:44:29 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:48:48 ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 16:54:36 -!- elfor_ [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 16:57:29 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has joined #scheme 17:04:39 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:45 forcer [n=forcer@f054023231.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:07:57 elfor 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has joined #scheme 17:43:31 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:53 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-219-207.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:53 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:51:40 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:01:04 tickingaway [n=m@lib105.lib.us.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 18:01:18 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:01:27 bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 18:03:18 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:03:19 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 18:04:45 Question about functions: If you're given one function, is there a way to remove a function application that occurs inside that function? 18:04:45 barney [n=bernhard@p549A29A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:04:52 for example 18:05:21 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-16.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:05:35 If you have some functions a, b, c. Then you define foo as (define (foo data) (a (b (c data)))) 18:06:05 what does it mean to 'remove a function application'? 18:06:33 Is there some way to write a function new-foo, which takes foo as an argument, and remove the application of the a function. The result would be (b (c data)) 18:06:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:21 sorry about my terminology, I'm not exactly sure how to phrase this question. 18:07:30 It's not possible, generally 18:07:33 well 18:07:38 chris2 [n=cky@98.104.195.234] has joined #scheme 18:07:41 I think the only language that can do that is Io? 18:07:44 yeah, your question doesn't make a whole lot of sense 18:07:52 you could write a macro that would do that 18:07:54 -!- cky [n=cky@98.104.195.234] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:08:02 -!- chris2 is now known as cky 18:08:32 but I think in general if you are trying to do that, you should rethink your design :P 18:08:39 :) 18:08:41 possibly 18:09:00 er probably 18:09:22 but I'm not thinking about something specific 18:09:27 new-foo would know way too much about foo's implementation details, anyway 18:10:01 well, I would go out on a limb and say you should never be doing that what you asked about :P 18:10:14 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-219-207.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:10:15 Never say never ;) 18:10:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:10:46 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:10:56 HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has joined #scheme 18:12:24 tickingaway: sure. if a is a bijective function, just apply a^-1: (a^-1 (a (b (c data)))) 18:14:12 incubot: or hit control-Z 18:14:15 but when you're trying to build a larger project you end up having to worry about whether control effects are properly nested 18:14:23 exactly 18:15:47 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-16.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:16:20 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has joined #scheme 18:16:33 -!- legis_ [n=JJ@unaffiliated/legis] has left #scheme 18:17:36 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-9-78.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:26 minion: advice 11935 for tickingaway 18:18:26 tickingaway: Because this is Lisp, not Perl. 18:18:40 nice 18:18:42 zbigniew: good point 18:19:34 @proq: I don't see what you mean 18:20:44 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:21:03 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:23:07 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:24:55 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:26:28 proq: My understanding of lisp is that procedural abstractions constitute one of its strengths over other languages. It seems to me like the ability to modify a procedure by removing an internal procedural application would be a useful form of procedural abstraction. If Perl is capable of doing something like this, then I am suddenly interested in learning Perl. 18:26:53 jao [n=jao@55.Red-88-15-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:24 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:28:32 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-90-189-158.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:29:21 tickingaway: As I said, Io is capable of this 18:29:55 Don't ask what the price in performance hit is though :) 18:31:04 tickingaway: I was merely echoing Elly's advice. don't jump to conclusions about perl 18:31:21 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:31:57 sjamaan: Cool, thanks 18:32:44 tickingaway: however, it would be a good idea to know a language like perl/ruby/python, yes 18:33:11 ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 18:35:22 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:36:28 proq: Heh yeah, I wasn't actually jumping to conclusions there. I was confused about your Perl comment but I think I see what you meant by it. 18:37:11 It's an attitude thing :) 18:40:25 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-9-78.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:45 yeah, I have seen a screwed Perl design or two 18:43:17 thanks all. 18:43:30 -!- tickingaway [n=m@lib105.lib.us.udel.edu] has quit [] 18:44:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:44:37 And he ticked away 18:45:29 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:45:46 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:00 -!- cky [n=cky@98.104.195.234] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:48:11 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-39.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:29 Learning Perl? Now that is an interesting concept. 18:49:10 A long long time ago, when Perl was still new and cool, I bought the Camel book. I opened it, saw the language, closed it, and never touched it again. 18:50:19 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:47 ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:49 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:55:51 mike [n=m@dslb-088-067-017-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:16 -!- mike is now known as Guest72961 19:00:29 Hello everyone! 19:02:12 I just borrowed my then employer's camel book occasionally 19:02:25 There was a genuine japh in the house, too 19:04:01 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:43 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:10 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:12:32 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:46 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:19:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:03 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:12 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 19:22:14 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 19:24:16 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 19:25:31 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:25:51 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:49 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:32:17 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:37:58 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 19:38:25 -!- tjafk2 is now known as timj 19:39:24 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 19:41:19 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:43:38 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:55:29 For Lisper, the book 'Higher Order Perl' would be more interesting 20:03:20 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 20:05:28 anyones using sepia ? 20:06:31 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has quit [] 20:07:48 I'm not even using silver yet 20:10:29 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A007D.versanet.de] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.91.1"] 20:12:05 benny [n=benny@i577A1269.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:12:56 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 20:15:49 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A29A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:01 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:54 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:25:47 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db1cbe9.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Noch da, noch da ... Uuuuund weg."] 20:27:47 elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:50 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:55 -!- Guest72961 [n=m@dslb-088-067-017-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #scheme 20:28:57 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:35:31 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:35:53 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:39:43 pants1 [n=hkarau@76-10-172-137.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 20:40:15 pants3 [n=hkarau@76-10-151-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 20:42:21 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:42:23 -!- pants2 [n=hkarau@69-196-167-1.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:56:39 -!- pants1 [n=hkarau@76-10-172-137.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [No route to host] 21:00:05 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6597d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9f02786bab3b7111] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:09:28 oPless [n=opless@psionics2.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:10:00 does scheme support lists that are cyclic? 21:12:30 oPless, the term usually used in the lisp world for such lists is "circular". 21:13:48 :) fair enough ... but nomenclature aside ... do lisps generally forbid such uses? 21:15:29 They generally do not forbid circular lists, but such lists are not well-formed, and many standard procedures assume well-formed lists. You're not off in the weeds when using them, but you're also not protected by general best practices. 21:15:49 Rather, you're *only* protected by general best practices. Sorry. 21:18:14 in that case, if I were to be implementing a language in the lisp family would you be of the opinion that it would be advantageous to forbid such structures ? 21:19:12 rudybot: eval (let ((a (mcons 1 (mcons 2 '())))) (set-mcdr! a a) a) 21:19:12 klutometis: ; Value: #0={1 . #0#} 21:20:11 oPless: nonsense; "forbidding" people from harming themselves is the mark of a serf-language; best leave such things to java and php 21:20:50 java and php leave you *plenty* of avenues by which to hurt yourself 21:21:01 oPless, certainly not. I think it would be more advantageous to extend the standard procedures in clearly implementation-defined ways to work meaningfully on improper lists, or to throw errors in a consistent, easily discoverable fashion. 21:21:16 Elly: heh; but they're not as fun as SEGVs 21:21:23 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 21:21:27 For extra points, write up your decision-making process and permit public comment, codify standard practice rather than inventing your own, and publish the result as a SRFI. 21:21:46 rudybot: eval (let ((a (mcons 1 (mcons 2 '())))) (set-mcdr! a a) (map (lambda (el) el) a)) 21:21:46 jlongster: your sandbox is ready 21:21:46 jlongster: error: map: expects type as 2nd argument, given: #0={1 . #0#}; other arguments were: # 21:22:21 huh 21:22:40 jlongster: map expects an immutable list, apparently; and set-cdr! and set-car! were banished to some library ghetto 21:22:50 i'm not sure how to reenable them 21:23:01 oh yeah, I remember reading about that 21:23:04 rudybot: eval mmap 21:23:04 jlongster: error: reference to undefined identifier: mmap 21:23:41 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 21:25:03 oPless, it may be worth noting that the most common way of constructing a non-trivial circular list is by using SET-CAR! and/or SET-CDR!. Those procedures make it difficult for some optimizing compilers to make useful assumptions about data flow, so they are generally discouraged. 21:27:28 Many procedures require proper lists. Better that they error out though than infinite loop. 21:28:26 rudybot: eval (shared ((a (cons 1 a))) a) 21:28:26 no, map expects a proper list. 21:28:27 synx: your scheme sandbox is ready 21:28:27 synx: ; Value: #0=(1 . #0#) 21:28:57 rudybot: eval (define something (shared ((a (cons 1 a))) a)) 21:28:57 rudybot: eval (mlist? something) 21:28:58 synx: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: mlist? in module: 'program 21:29:20 hm... 21:29:21 The most common, certainly not the only way. 21:29:22 rudybot: exit 21:29:22 synx: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 21:30:08 rudybot: eval (require scheme/mpair) (mlist? something) 21:30:08 synx: ; Value: #f 21:30:50 rudybot: (define foo (let ((a (mcons 1 (mcons 2 '())))) (set-mcdr! (mcdr a) a) a)) 21:30:50 eli: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 21:30:54 rudybot: eval (define foo (let ((a (mcons 1 (mcons 2 '())))) (set-mcdr! (mcdr a) a) a)) 21:30:56 eli: your "http://tmp.barzilay.org/x.scm" sandbox is ready 21:30:57 rudybot: eval foo 21:30:57 eli: ; Value: #0={1 2 . #0#} 21:31:05 rudybot: eval (require scheme/mpair) 21:31:14 rudybot: eval (mmap add1 foo) 21:31:18 eli: error: evaluator: terminated (out-of-memory) 21:31:21 ThereYouGo. 21:31:45 See how the writer uses { instead of (? 21:31:46 That's what I'm talkin about. 21:31:46 eli: ehe 21:33:13 The options for a map that works on cyclic lists are: pretend they're not there, and risk results like the above; detect cycles and throw an error; do the "right thing" and produce a cyclic list with the same shape -- making the code much more complex and slow. 21:33:41 (Of course there's also the segfault option, probably just as popular.) 21:34:27 code involving cyclic lists isn't all /that/ much slower than proper lists. You just have to use (eq? first-list current) instead of (null? current) 21:34:32 AtnNn_ [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:34:44 synx: No. 21:34:45 It's just specialized... 21:34:50 gnomon, I'm writing a *simple* lisp system that will form the basis of future machine-learning projects and I think circular lists would be ... ripe for getting oneself into trouble :) 21:35:03 rudybot: eval (define foo (let ((a (mcons 1 (mcons 2 '())))) (set-mcdr! (mcdr a) (mcdr a)) a)) 21:35:04 eli: your "http://tmp.barzilay.org/x.scm" sandbox is ready 21:35:07 rudybot: eval foo 21:35:07 eli: ; Value: {1 . #0={2 . #0#}} 21:35:18 synx: That won't work in this case. 21:35:34 I'm ...not entirely sure what you just defined there. 21:35:43 oPless: That's a generally good view of the issue... 21:35:55 synx: It's a cyclic list, but it doesn't cycle back to the head. 21:36:07 OH 21:36:14 dang yeah that would be pretty bad. 21:37:24 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:37:31 oPless: your code, your call :) 21:37:55 oPless: Writing circular lists is something I have *never* done accidently. They are certainly useful, so I wouldn't think removing them would make it that much of a safer language in practice, and probably just add a needless restriction on a relatively normal and simple concept of cons pairs. 21:38:36 gnomon, doesn't harm to gain opinion, even if you ignore it :) 21:38:46 Then again, if you want to cut off *all* the sharp corners, your could produce a Fisher Price Lisp. Lots of bright primary colours. 21:39:35 gnomon, hahaha... I was thinking more of fluorescent colours ... oh yes, and flashing too :) 21:39:38 Even then, you should watch out for lead paints, toxicity from plastic sweating, and the overal eyestrain that might result. 21:40:12 hmm 666 text messages on my phone 21:43:07 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-39.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:43:10 rcassidy [n=rcassidy@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 21:52:06 oPless: how are you going to implement fucking fibonacci heaps with a circular list? 21:52:16 s/with/without/ 21:53:39 I've never heard of those, klutometis. What sets them apart from normal fibonacci heaps? 21:54:41 gnomon: heh; the erotic doubly linked lists, of course 21:55:05 Ah, yes, that of course makes sense. 21:58:36 GAH 21:58:39 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:58:47 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:59:07 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:01:35 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:42 what is the most high performing scheme implementation? 22:09:57 stalin? :) 22:10:05 (just a wild guess) 22:10:08 morphir: runtime or compile time? 22:10:19 -!- LobsterMan is now known as LobsterMan_AFK 22:10:26 klutometis: well, say both then 22:10:36 AT THE SAME TIME? 22:11:04 both separately 22:11:05 morphir: like sjamaan said: stalin produces efficient running times at the expense of (sometimes) huge compilation times 22:11:15 a-s` [n=user@92.80.90.15] has joined #scheme 22:11:15 since they are both so different creatures 22:11:24 chicken has the best compiletime/runtime tradeoffs i've seen 22:11:34 on the other hand, i haven't studied plt in depth 22:17:00 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 22:17:00 22:17:00 -!- names: ccl-logbot a-s` puchacz kniu rcassidy AtnNn_ oPless pants3 errordeveloper elfor benny mejja p1dzkl ASau mreggen Adamant Cowmoo sepult dysinger Modius_ jao mokogobo bweaver melgray Nshag forcer jeremiah MrFahrenheit jonrafkind jlongster jewel pitui athos bzzbzz wrldpc tripwyre underspecified_ luz Edico inimino offby1 hkBst orgy` borism ecraven Qaexl LobsterMan_AFK ttmrichter sladegen dfeuer timj ffx` cipher morphir ski csmrFX0r peddie guenthr 22:17:00 -!- names: emma eli clog Arelius exexex saccade Adrinael sphex bsmntbombdood_ araujo elias` CaptainMorgan Hydr4 Vaeshir Deformative elmex leppie synx yosafbridge tverwaes bkudria kazzmir Mikoange1o Quadrescence glogic sad0ur teiresias jld joast xwl_ mmmulani tarbo ray mmt lisppaste laz0r Leonidas foof metasyntax tizoc pfo_ Khisanth REPLeffect_ eno etoxam mbishop stepnem Riastradh duncanm qebab tttsssttt nasloc__ ada2358 dlouhy amazon10x incubot rodge 22:17:00 -!- names: fean mornfall specbot certainty|work rumbleca elf Debolaz danking Elly XTL klutometis poucet gnomon tabe tessier hiyuh Fade pbusser2 proq bohanlon ineiros z0d felipe sjamaan rotty tsuyoshi Poeir certainty minion pantsd mookid tltstc ski_ ski__ Caesium wastrel 22:17:01 The delta between the wight of your pocket before and after you obtain a legal copy of Chez. 22:17:06 You have to cough up some dough to use it 22:17:10 s/wight/weight/ 22:18:04 Time for sleep 22:18:05 nite 22:18:51 eli: ah - hahah! 22:19:09 greedy motherfucker,aii? 22:19:48 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 22:19:48 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 22:19:48 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 22:19:48 underspecified [n=eric-n@leopard175.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 22:19:48 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 22:19:48 kspaans [i=kspaans@artificial-flavours.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 22:19:48 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #scheme 22:20:12 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:22:24 Well, "makes a living out of it" is probably a better characterization. 22:23:09 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 22:23:22 arcfide [n=arcfide@iub-vpn-205-32.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 22:23:47 hey, Im not here to judge:) 22:23:47 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:23:56 I let Judy do that 22:24:10 Is she still on? 22:25:44 on tv? I caught a glimpse at her court yesterday 22:25:59 it was ridicules 22:27:17 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 22:27:32 She was ridiculous or the case was? 22:27:42 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 22:27:56 What are you talking about? she died 30 years ago... 22:28:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Garland 22:42:25 klutometis, I don't plan to implement fibonacci heaps, fucking ones or otherwise 22:42:27 :P 22:46:42 oPless: sure, but your users might; or do you not care about optimizing shortest paths/MSTs? 22:47:42 klutometis, the intended users are, me, and the program itself :) 22:50:25 geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:51:20 oPless: then have some pity on the technological singularity; it's going to have to implement shortest paths to track down those pesky humans 22:57:40 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 22:57:54 haha 22:59:14 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 22:59:27 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:04:01 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 23:08:16 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:08:35 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:09:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:11:38 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 23:24:15 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:27:34 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-70-132.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 23:31:21 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 23:33:31 raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 23:43:24 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:44:01 does anyone know how i might go about decompiling a .zo file? 23:46:26 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has quit [] 23:47:39 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:47:55 what is that? 23:48:10 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 23:48:22 apparently it's some sort of compiled scheme library 23:48:54 http://www.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-scheme/2004-April/005307.html 23:49:56 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-70-132.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:53:48 wow, just got my IRClogs webapp running with Ypsilon, and it feels way slower than with Ikarus (not that that was totally unexpected, but nevertheless ... interesting) -- now if I had a decent profiler... 23:56:21 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has joined #scheme 23:56:52 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com] has quit [Client Quit]