00:00:24 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:02:36 -!- buggarage_ [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-241.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:14 melgray [n=melgray@dsl231-038-147.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 00:07:49 incubot: upgraded appliances will increase your resale value 00:07:52 Petite Chez Scheme may be used without license fee or royalty for any purpose, including for resale as part of a commercial product. (See the license agreement shipped with Petite Chez Scheme for details.) 00:08:16 incubot: Since when have you cared?! 00:08:20 Well, going to school is not a very economical way to learn CS. You could probably do just find by buying used textbooks and studying them, if you have tht sort of discipline. 00:09:43 incubot: very true... that's why people go to college to pick up girls and enjoy dorm life 00:09:46 it's not dorm food XD 00:10:35 proq: Hah! 00:10:50 proq: Some of us actually study and produce semi-useful looking stuff. 00:11:01 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 00:11:43 buggarage [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-241.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:12:55 you can study *and* enjoy dorm life. but I can study *much* better, and more economically IMO if I lock myself in a basement with a few machines and lots of good books, with no distractions 00:14:09 mmc [n=mima@cs167020.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 00:31:56 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs167020.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:42:43 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-70-132.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:50:51 -!- buggarage is now known as buggarage_ 00:51:53 -!- buggarage_ is now known as buggarage 00:52:51 -!- nothinghappens_ [n=nothingh@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:58:04 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.196.205] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:44 -!- davidad [n=me@NORTHWEST-THIRTYFIVE-FOUR-TWENTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:08:09 jmd [n=john@cellform.com] has joined #scheme 01:08:22 -!- bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:09:27 davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-28-32.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 01:09:28 How can I apply a function to every element in a list? 01:09:39 specbot: r5rs map 01:09:39 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_558 01:09:41 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5g3njv 01:09:49 specbot: r5rs for-each 01:09:49 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_560 01:09:52 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/d4m2rh 01:09:57 -!- davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-28-32.dyn.mit.edu] has left #scheme 01:11:46 No one has any recommendations on my little column maker above? 01:12:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:16:45 Is there any library or code that sanitizes strings for the web and URLs? 01:22:39 i18n and unicode 01:22:50 lol 01:22:53 :) 01:23:05 that's sane enough 01:23:25 How do I write a "hello world" program in scheme? 01:23:29 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:49 (display "Hello, world!") (newline) 01:23:50 (defun (hello) ("hello world")) ?? 01:24:42 sepult: as long as you're using Lisp and your strings may be called as procedures, sure 01:25:05 lol 01:25:50 (hello) 01:25:57 ,(hello) 01:26:00 no 01:26:25 ,`(hello) 01:26:46 ,eval hello 01:26:52 ,eval (hello) 01:27:04 nope 01:27:20 rudybot: help 01:27:21 sepult: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ... 01:27:38 rudybot: help eval 01:27:39 sepult: eval ...: evaluate an expression(s) 01:28:06 bkudria [n=bkudria@kudria.net] has joined #scheme 01:29:00 eval (hello) ? 01:29:18 foof annotated #78585 "alternate impl" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78585#1 01:30:23 davidad [n=me@NORTHWEST-THIRTYFIVE-FOUR-TWENTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:32:23 drop*, make-row and the lp could all be written with foof-loop 01:35:36 But I think your implementation is more aesthetically pleasing - you don't rely on counting. 01:37:18 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-75-13.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:37:32 buggarag` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-13.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:42:22 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:43:26 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:45:28 whahh 01:45:46 (define (hello) (printf "Hello World!")) 01:46:01 but printf is C is it ? 01:47:35 mm.. name of a standard function in C, yeah 01:50:47 fortunately function names are not required to be unique between languages :) 01:52:14 -!- buggarage [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-241.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:52:45 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-120-241.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:41 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:55:35 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:04:27 foof: I hadn't even really thought about that kind of approach. 02:04:40 underspecified [n=eric-n@leopard175.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:04:47 I wonder, is there an effeciency difference in either Space or Time? 02:05:54 incubot: time and space can be a bitch 02:05:57 well, with SRFI-44, its big, and neither Riastradh nor I have lots of free time to finish it 02:07:44 foof: Thanks for liking my version, though. :-) 02:17:33 arcfide, what does `sanitizes strings for the web and URLs' mean? 02:18:15 The verb `sanitize' is a suggestive of the wrong mindset, the sort of mindset that leads to faulty engineering and monstrosities such as Unix shells. 02:19:12 Riastradh: I'm looking for something that will let me encode urls as parameters in a url and also decode these parameters into actual urls. 02:19:23 Better verbs include `quote' or `encode', and the rules for doing that depend on the format into which you want the information encoded. 02:19:41 Riastradh: I think I can make it work with your URI library, actually. 02:19:56 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:20:25 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:20:25 Some formats, such as URIs and XML 1.0, have poorly specified coding rules, as a consequence of which it is non-trivial to encode and decode information in those formats without losing any in general with any agents. 02:20:41 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:20:52 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:21:10 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:21:13 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-227-184.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:21:17 The generic URI syntax admits general encoding of Unicode strings in pathname components, query strings, and fragment identifiers. 02:22:34 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 02:22:44 However, the application/x-www-form-urlencoded is not compatible with these coding rules; in other words, one cannot express information in application/x-www-form-urlencoded and then store it in a generic URI in a way that every agent that handles such URIs will accept. 02:23:11 Sorry, I spoke imprecisely and omitted a couple of words. Let me try again: 02:23:40 However, the application/x-www-form-urlencoded format is not compatible with these coding rules; in other words, one cannot express information in application/x-www-form-urlencoded and then store it in a URI according to the coding rules in the generic URI syntax, in a way that every agent that handles such URIs will understand the application/x-www-form-urlencoded data. 02:24:05 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:24:29 This is an approach to engineering that is technically known as `brain damage'. 02:24:37 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:02 hrm. Well, I had hoped that I could use RDF identifiers (urls of some kind) as a paraemter to a web page that would display information about that rdf subject, but.... 02:25:40 foof` [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:25:55 This seems to work fine for the moment, but fails if the id has a fragment in it, because the # is not encoded. 02:26:05 The URI library in schemantic-web will faithfully encode any octet string you throw at it in pathname components, query string, or fragment identifier. If that's what you want, then use it. 02:26:46 Hmmm. 02:27:26 Riastradh: Hmmm? 02:28:13 Hmmm. 02:28:18 Says so right here. 02:28:20 *offby1* points 02:28:21 Disregard my `Hmmm.'; I was looking at local modifications to uri.scm, which are not in the published repository. 02:28:28 Aah, okay. 02:28:46 There should be no problem with storing an octothorpe in a pathname component, query string, or fragment identifier of a URI. 02:29:27 Great. 02:30:23 My local modifications change the abstraction to accomodate the vagaries of application/x-www-form-urlencoded, and constitute an incompatible change to the interface. 02:30:54 Aaah. 02:34:14 Specifically, the changes would add constraints to the format of the strings that one could pass to MAKE-URI, and would move canonicalization from the parser and unparser into separate procedures to specifically canonicalize, for instance, the case of the URI scheme, or the pct-encoding of this or that component, &c. 02:35:38 How do you disinguish between an octothorpe in the pathname vs. in the fragment? 02:36:22 http://foo.com/one#two#three <- is that pathname one#two w/ fragment three, or pathname one with fragment two#three? 02:37:09 That's invalid syntax for a URI. 02:37:40 OK, when you said "There should be no problem with storing an octothorpe ..." I thought you meant storing it unencoded. 02:37:46 Of course not. 02:38:50 The right way to go about this is to define a URI as a structure with several components, which are strings. The map from URIs to their external representations (their syntax for interchange) requires encoding characters that have special interpretation for the syntax, and the reverse map requires decoding. 02:39:11 That's what the library under discussion does. 02:39:20 Unfortunately, that's not how URIs work in the wild. 02:41:38 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:37 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-75-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 02:53:17 -!- buggarag` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 02:53:53 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 02:53:58 -!- foof` is now known as foof 02:59:07 But if you want the pathname of a URI to be the same data structure as pathnames on the local system it can't in general be a string. 02:59:13 saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:59:30 -!- davidad [n=me@NORTHWEST-THIRTYFIVE-FOUR-TWENTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:59:31 I didn't say anything about `pathnames on the local system'. 02:59:43 I know. 02:59:47 All I'm talking about is a URI as a data structure with some string components. 03:00:06 I'm just pointing out that it could be worthwhile to unify the two and be able to take advantage of a unified pathname library. 03:01:34 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:02:04 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:03:55 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:07:05 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:49 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:17:26 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:35:37 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:39:36 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-65-114.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:41:56 Is there a progn equivalent in scheme? 03:42:08 begin 03:42:24 Thanks. 03:44:17 saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:54:33 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 03:55:37 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:59:44 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:08:42 sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:10:08 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176197028.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:13:04 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:17:08 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:20:23 -!- PSOAddict [n=PSOAddic@cblmdm72-240-100-173.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:20:56 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 04:24:04 davidad [n=me@RANDOM-SEVEN-FIFTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:26:03 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:26:15 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:43 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176207235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:55 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:37:05 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:49:04 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:50:44 chris2 [n=cky@98.105.173.199] has joined #scheme 04:50:50 -!- cky [n=cky@98.105.139.107] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:50:54 -!- chris2 is now known as cky 04:52:11 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:06:26 -!- arphid [n=matt@69.162.118.230] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:09:48 -!- melgray [n=melgray@dsl231-038-147.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 05:15:08 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 05:19:34 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:22:13 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:33:54 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 05:34:14 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:37:53 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:38:22 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 05:39:21 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:50:35 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:10:08 pure [n=pure@219-89-144-173.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:10:15 -!- pure is now known as mad_muppet 06:14:23 underspecified_ [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-230.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:19:08 chris2 [n=cky@98.105.173.199] has joined #scheme 06:19:23 -!- cky [n=cky@98.105.173.199] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:19:25 -!- chris2 is now known as cky 06:28:50 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:38:57 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 06:41:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 06:47:32 ASau` [n=user@host107-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:53:43 -!- sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:54:16 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 06:54:52 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-133-183.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:13:39 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:13:45 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:24:25 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@41.243.51.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:30:11 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.134.145] has joined #scheme 07:31:47 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:36:39 bsmntbombdood [i=gavin@97-118-133-183.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 07:42:11 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:43:28 underspecified__ [n=eric@naist-wavenet125-204.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:50:00 I want to find the biggest two out of three numbers .. I can find the biggest number but Im not sure how to continue any help appreciated .. 07:54:24 drop the smallest? 07:55:30 ecraven: ah thats smart .. doh will have to look at that thanks .. thats backwards to the way I was looking at it 07:56:20 lots of ways, sort in ascending order, drop first, sort in descending order, drop last, etc. 07:56:25 jah [n=jah@205.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 07:57:24 I have just started learning scheme so its all new .. dunno how to sort in ascending order yet ..:p 07:59:47 you'll learn :) also, whatever you do in other languages will work in scheme too 08:00:29 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-230.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:03:09 was thinking of writing the program in c and trying to convert it bit Im not sure thats the right way to go about it 08:04:58 most assuredly not :) 08:05:29 Just think about what you need to do, no need to implement it in C (especially since Scheme works rather differently than C) 08:05:56 How would you find the single greatest number in a list of numbers? 08:07:26 I used a smaller function to find the biggest of two numbers then used it twice to find the biggest of three numbers 08:10:26 I have got an idea for solving it but I dont know how to put it into practice 08:10:37 What's your idea? 08:10:48 if no1 is bigger than n02 swap 08:11:09 then go through again till they are sorted 08:11:54 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:12:46 so check 1 vs 2 .. 1 vs 3 .. 1 v 2 and 2 v 3 should do it 08:18:49 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:19:43 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:25:56 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 08:26:23 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 08:28:26 -!- dysinger 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[Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:12:24 cirquitz [n=cirquitz@203.199.114.33] has joined #scheme 12:13:42 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:35:37 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:49:05 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:50:22 BW^- [i=Miranda@151.81.32.239] has joined #scheme 12:58:47 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:00:18 why do you need to convert a pattern variable pv with (syntax-object->datum (syntax pv)) to get a scheme value? 13:00:21 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@151.81.32.239] has left #scheme 13:02:09 pv isn't a variable - you need (syntax pv) to get the syntax associated with the pattern variable pv in the innermost lexical syntax-case form. 13:02:48 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:02:51 To remove the syntactic information and just treat it as a raw sexpr you need syntax-object->datum. 13:05:37 foof: is there any use for pattern variabled outside of syntax forms? 13:06:15 variables* 13:08:04 Well, the value you get from (syntax pv) is first class - you can pass it to other utility procedures. 13:09:31 but I mean, what about just plain pv itself? Is it ever useful with an enclosing syntax form? 13:09:46 and what kind of thing is it? 13:09:53 It's not only useful, it's necessary if you don't want to break hygiene. 13:11:46 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:31 can you give an example of how naked pv is necessary to avoid breaking hygiene? 13:14:16 -!- xwl [n=user@114.246.81.208] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:16 xwl [n=user@114.246.81.208] has joined #scheme 13:22:16 foof pasted "syntax-case hygiene" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78613 13:25:48 thanks foof 13:26:09 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:28:22 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:29:54 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:30:20 metasynt1x [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:18 annodomini 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[n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 14:10:50 foof: but (syntax pv) is the same as (syntax (syntax-object->datum (syntax pv))) and (datum->syntax-object (syntax-object->datum (syntax pv)))? 14:11:45 no 14:12:03 hkBst annotated #78613 "adder" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78613#1 14:16:46 ejs1 [n=eugen@143-235-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 14:21:43 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:23:24 they seem to be the same at least in the context I pasted 14:27:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:27:55 ah, this syntax stuff is confusing :) 14:29:50 higepon925 [n=taro@FL1-118-109-126-100.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 14:48:18 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:50:09 -!- higepon925 [n=taro@FL1-118-109-126-100.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:52:15 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined 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ways to do it 18:03:31 neilv: i did sicp in gnu/mit scheme; does it not run as-is in plt? 18:03:55 klutometis: plt 4 has made this a bit more complicated 18:04:42 i want the person working through sicp to be able to fire up drscheme, select "SICP" from the language menu, and everything from the book just works 18:08:48 -!- Hydr4 [n=Lernaean@68-184-239-20.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:24 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 18:17:08 -!- Guest46625 [n=m@dslb-088-064-133-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:18:53 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 18:19:38 hedgee [n=cky@166.166.19.136] has joined #scheme 18:25:15 -!- cky [n=cky@98.105.173.199] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:25:18 -!- hedgee is now known as cky 18:26:17 neilv: I thought PLT didn't think SICP was relevant anymore.. 18:26:52 i haven't heard that 18:27:04 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 18:28:33 *eli* produces a loud sigh 18:28:43 and regardless, i think it would be nice if it were easy for people to do sicp using drscheme 18:29:01 i almost always point people to htdp rather than sicp, though 18:33:13 -!- cirquitz [n=cirquitz@203.199.114.33] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:38:19 hm. in plt 4.1.5 #lang r5rs, is there a reason that #%provide seems to be the old mzscheme one rather than scheme/base one? 18:38:54 neilv: "Introductory courses based on the book showed up around the world and made Scheme and functional programming popular. Unfortunately, these courses quickly disappeared again due to shortcomings of the book and the whimsies of Scheme" 18:39:02 neilv: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/scheme/pubs/fffk-jfp.pdf 18:39:47 mejja: Please avoid bogus jumping to conclusions. 18:39:49 I guess the scheme/base provide is just sugar on the primitive #%provide 18:40:29 neilv: Two reasons -- one is what p1dzkl said -- the new `require' and `provide' is a syntax on top of the primitive syntax, 18:41:29 neilv: and second -- the new syntax would require also getting the require/provide "sub-macros" (like `only-in' etc) to be present in the language, which would either violate R5RS, or be provided as `#%only-in' and complicate things. 18:52:39 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A19BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:53:42 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:54:43 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 18:59:50 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:27 jao [n=jao@11.Red-79-155-154.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:00:58 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:05:12 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-227-180.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:09:47 -!- damg1 [n=dbachtin@p4FDB7BD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:09:58 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:15:04 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:16:55 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:18:19 ejs0 [n=eugen@50-124-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:11 -!- davidad [n=me@RANDOM-SEVEN-FIFTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:02 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:52 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:24:29 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:08 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:34:25 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:39:01 mmc [n=mima@cs167020.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:39:29 does anyone know what the asperand stands for in numbers? 19:39:31 lolcow [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:39:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:43 it's given as an alternative to the n+ni format, but: 19:39:44 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-51-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:39:46 rudybot_: eval 1@1 19:39:47 klutometis: ; Value: 0.5403023058681398+0.8414709848078965i 19:39:56 is not the same as: 19:39:58 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:59 rudybot_: eval 1+1i 19:40:00 klutometis: ; Value: 1+1i 19:40:17 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 19:41:08 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 19:41:12 it's an imaginary number in polar notation 19:41:32 length and angle 19:41:54 s/imaginary/complex/ 19:42:04 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@50-124-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:42:12 ah, nice; of course 19:42:52 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:43:50 -!- FunkyDrummer [n=RageOfTh@92.36.182.137] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:00 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:36 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:51:48 rudybot_: 1.4142135623730951@0.7853981633974483 19:51:49 klutometis: eh? Try "rudybot_: help". 19:51:53 rudybot_: eval 1.4142135623730951@0.7853981633974483 19:51:53 klutometis: ; Value: 1.0000000000000002+1.0i 19:52:43 too bad i can't do: 19:52:48 rudybot_: eval (sqrt 2)@(/ (asin 1) 2) 19:52:49 klutometis: error: reference to undefined identifier: @ 19:53:50 but that would be unschemely 19:54:42 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:55:03 rudybot: eval (make-polar (sqrt 2) (/ (asin 1) 2)) 19:55:15 rudybot_: eval (make-polar (sqrt 2) (/ (asin 1) 2)) 19:55:15 p1dzkl: your r5rs sandbox is ready 19:55:15 p1dzkl: ; Value: 1.0000000000000002+1.0i 19:55:23 p1dzkl: thanks 19:55:32 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:57 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 19:57:16 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-229.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 19:57:23 holy shit; rudybot has pi: 19:57:30 rudybot_: eval (make-polar (sqrt 2) (/ pi 4)) 19:57:30 klutometis: ; Value: 1.0000000000000002+1.0i 19:57:35 damn you, plt 19:57:35 mmmh, what flavors? 19:57:40 heh 19:58:03 bah. i had this sicp language in plt working, and then i changed something before checking it in, and now it hangs drscheme 19:58:14 how's it hanging? 19:58:34 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.149.5] has joined #scheme 19:58:47 *klutometis* rimshits 19:58:54 s/shits/shots/ 19:59:00 heh 19:59:01 ew 19:59:15 fucking dvorak strikes again 19:59:43 Dvorak made you do that? :-) 19:59:44 what bastard would put o and i on the same row? 19:59:53 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:59:55 Sounds like a great idea! 20:00:02 :-D 20:00:08 oh, qwerty does it, too; nevermind ;) 20:00:08 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 20:00:32 *klutometis* takes responsibility for shitting the joint up 20:01:05 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:01:14 does dvorak put X and C next to each other on the left hand as fingers read down? people who use unix "tar" for backups love that 20:01:22 *sjamaan* gives klutometis "the dvorak made me do it" 20:01:31 (on a t-shirt) 20:02:12 sjamaan: hey, not bad; might be saleable to the hundreds of dvoracists out there 20:02:25 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 20:02:34 why, if just 1% of them bought the shirt ... 20:03:29 dvo-racists? 20:03:30 hehe 20:03:34 another advantage of qwerty is that it's really easy to type qwerty when giving demonstrations of how easy it is to type certain things on qwerty 20:03:44 zbigniew: like typewriter? 20:03:59 i see no Q there 20:03:59 Dvorakeans, I think. 20:04:00 all on the top row iirc 20:04:01 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:04:31 arcfide: that's STNG, though 20:05:32 next year i'm planning on introducing my new keyboard, the 'thequickbrownfoxjumpedoverthelazydog' 20:06:40 zbigniew: heh; is anyone keeping tabs on how many eggs have been ported, by the way? 20:06:55 i want to take the chicken 4 plunge; but eggs are holding me back 20:06:58 There's a wiki page that felix made, which never got updated 20:07:00 might want to help out, too 20:07:04 sjamaan: link? 20:07:28 chicken.wiki.br/hygienic-egg-port-a-mania 20:07:30 uh, 77 20:07:48 It does contain some info about which are deprecated, I think 20:09:42 that keyboard will be shaped like a piano; the black keys will spell out 'salpingooophorectomy' 20:10:27 zbigniew: jesus; remind me to keep my wife away from that thing 20:10:46 take my wife's, eggs 20:10:55 heh 20:11:02 Was she ported to chicken 4 yet? 20:11:07 *sjamaan* hides 20:11:11 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF42D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 20:11:45 benny` [n=benny@i577A1576.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:12:00 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-172.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:13:01 sjamaan: ouch; anyone write a doc outlining how to port code from 3 to 4? 20:13:06 So, using IrRegex, what's the easiest way to get a procedure that tests whether a given string has all of the specified strings in it? 20:13:19 sjamaan: i.e., if you stay away from unhygenic macros, are you more or less okay? 20:13:30 also, are syntax-case modules still viable 20:13:31 klutometis: It's pretty trivial. You should read the Modules and macros page 20:13:46 You don't need syntax-case to get syntax-rules, anymore 20:14:09 this one? https://galinha.ucpel.tche.br/cgi-bin/svnwiki/default//man/4/Modules and macros?action=edit§ion=Modules 20:14:20 I think about three fourths of all eggs depend on syntax-case for syntax-rules 20:14:36 syntax-case is not (currently) available, although syntax-case can be considered an abomination 20:14:54 i only use syntax-case for the modules, basically 20:15:02 but it looks like the module syntax is roughly the same 20:15:10 in 4 20:15:16 klutometis: For some reason that doesn't show anything 20:15:28 zbigniew: What, you don't like SYNTAX-CASE?! :-P 20:15:32 we're more likely to see syntactic closures now that a transformer spec more generic than '(lambda (f r c) ...)' has be implemented 20:15:45 sjamaan: http://chicken.wiki.br/man/4/Modules and macros 20:16:01 yes, that one 20:18:48 -!- jah [n=jah@205.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has left #scheme 20:19:25 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db1dfac.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20:19:25 incubot: it's not that I don't like syntax-case; I just want to waterboard it until it divulges the plot 20:19:28 oh no! that page divulges my real name. Now I have to kill you, and everybody who might have possibly seen that page. 20:19:42 Yes. 20:19:43 hehe 20:20:04 Trollinator [n=foo@g226225202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:20:21 Hold on to your hats, people 20:20:37 The Trollinator is here 20:20:40 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.117.113] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:10 i'm pretty tame 20:22:12 I have wondered, do most people rebel against psyntax or the actual SYNTAX-CASE and other forms? Many times it seems like people just don't like the implementation, more than whether they actually hate the way you use it. 20:22:27 Though, I have heard plenty of people hate on its usage, too. :-P 20:22:57 where can i find some find of standard library reference for scheme? 20:23:11 specbot: Reveal your secrets. 20:23:19 r5rs list 20:23:19 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_416 20:23:22 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5ppw5q 20:23:25 ^ around there 20:23:25 r5rs r5rs 20:23:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for r5rs. 20:23:36 brilliant, thanks 20:23:41 It's also linked on schemers.org 20:23:43 r5rs call-with-plaintive-plea 20:23:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for call-with-plaintive-plea. 20:23:47 If you ever need to find it again 20:23:59 r5rs secret-secrets 20:23:59 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for secret-secrets. 20:24:12 incubot: sucrets 20:24:27 r5rs meaning-of-life 20:24:28 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for meaning-of-life. 20:25:05 incubot: sucrets are good for your laryngitis 20:25:09 Context: I want a good abstraction and set of conventions for collections. It may not encompass everything, but I want it to be *good*. 20:25:09 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1F7D.versanet.de] has quit [Success] 20:26:05 r5rs summary 20:26:06 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for summary. 20:26:15 *proq* gives up 20:32:03 is there a stdlib function that, given a function f and a value x, calculates the list (x (f x) (f (f x)) (f (f (f x))) ...)? 20:32:27 ... 20:32:48 You want a fixed point generator? 20:33:02 Or ... 20:33:35 fixed point generator? 20:33:47 Trollinator: How do you propose to handle this infinite list? 20:34:00 er... forget about it 20:34:17 scheme isn't lazy, right? 20:34:28 Not by default. 20:34:35 srfi 41 has stream-iterate that makes the stream (lazy list) that you want 20:34:39 I mean, you can use streams, which is what you would want to do here. 20:35:02 are those in the stdlib? 20:35:06 p1dzdl: I believe foof loop also has a stream iterator. 20:35:15 Trollinator: What is this mythical stdlib? 20:35:22 minion: advice for Trollinator 20:35:23 Trollinator: #12000: Looking for a compiler bug is the second-to-last resort. The last resort is blaming bad RAM. It's never the correct hypothesis. 20:35:42 ... 20:35:51 well... scheme does have a standard library, right? 20:36:02 minion: The problem with this statement is that it forgets Operating System Bugs. 20:36:03 i agree - the problem with this statement is that it forgets operating system bugs 20:36:04 Trollinator: those are referred to as the SRFIs 20:36:15 ah, i see 20:36:16 collectively 20:36:34 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-41/srfi-41.html, for instance, will get you lazy lists 20:36:35 Trollinator: SRFIs are not Standard, either. Forget about standard library talk. :-P 20:36:37 Trollinator: there is no standard library in scheme, only a specification.. of which the best is called r5rs 20:36:39 AKA as streams 20:36:50 a-s [n=user@92.81.117.113] has joined #scheme 20:36:54 isn't there r6rs also? 20:37:03 I said the *best* 20:37:11 what's wrong with R6RS? 20:37:17 Trollinator: Oh, run, man, run. 20:37:20 *arcfide* counts... 20:37:22 1 20:37:26 proq: yeah, yeah, that's the answer by the letter; but the spirit of his enquiry is satisfied by the SRFIs, isn't it? 20:37:26 2 20:37:29 oh, yes you could consider the srfis as a standordibrary 20:37:37 *standard library 20:38:06 Trollinator: In Scheme, we usually go by de facto standards of use, which include SRFIs and a wide range of portable and implementation specific libraries. 20:38:24 and perhaps to a lesser degree ICE 20:38:45 so the bad thing about R6RS is that is hasn't been widely implemented? 20:39:08 Trollinator: And, R6RS was a valiant effort at mammoth overhaul and improvement of Scheme which ultimately failed to deliver any sense of satisfaction to anyone, and does not really advance the state of the art. 20:39:59 Trollinator: Use it if you like, or must, but many of us would just as rather not as do. 20:40:18 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIFTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:40:31 tbh i only use scheme for my compiler class 20:41:40 my problem is that we're supposed to write a compiler for a toy language in scheme, but we weren't really told which libraries we can use. 20:41:56 Better ask, first 20:42:05 i have to hand this in tomorrow 20:42:09 o_O 20:42:19 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 20:42:36 *arcfide* sighs. 20:42:38 It makes quite a difference to be able to use, say, srfi-13 versus hand-rolling everything 20:42:45 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a64160@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-984dcd8c4c211e97] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 20:42:51 What is it with people only going for help when it is too late? 20:42:55 hence i just wanted to stick to the "standard", whatever that means 20:42:57 hehe 20:43:11 Trollinator: The "standard" is very minimalistic 20:43:12 which scheme implementation are you supposed to be using 20:43:15 ? 20:43:20 they didn't tell us 20:43:26 .... 20:43:28 i'm using mit-scheme now 20:43:28 wow 20:43:29 Where is this? 20:43:47 i don't think that matters 20:43:47 MIT Scheme has a host of extra features that you can use. If they said you could use MIT Scheme, then go to town. 20:44:03 hehe 20:44:43 I used MIT Scheme in a compiler class, too. 20:46:12 i used c++ in a compiler class. i would've finished in a fraction of the time with scheme 20:46:35 only two people finished that class, actually. me, and a guy who started a major videogame company 20:46:54 i kinda like C++ 20:47:37 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:47:37 template metaprogramming is a bit like lisp 20:48:02 anyway, if you have reason to believe they want you to use mit-scheme, then use that. otherwise, if you're in a hurry, i'd load up drscheme and stick to r5rs or the manual for the base plt scheme language 20:48:46 woh... "template metaprogramming" just brought back 3 dark years of my life 20:49:00 why, what's the advantage of drscheme over mit? 20:49:14 Trollinator: Don't listen to them! They'll turn you into a PLTer. :-P 20:49:23 *arcfide* chuckles. 20:49:42 you can't know plt without wanting to use it 20:49:55 neilv: Oh yes I can. :-P 20:50:01 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-14-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 20:50:07 in this case, i just think drscheme is the fastest path for getting a newbie up to speed 20:50:12 Trollinator: Template metaprogramming in C++ and Lisp shouldn't be compared. 20:50:14 >:( 20:50:50 if you say so. 20:50:50 neilv: Heh... 20:51:00 I started on MIT Scheme, and liked it quite fine. 20:51:02 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs167020.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:51:16 i don't like its REPL 20:51:23 Trollinator: Are you using Edwin? 20:51:27 Quadrescence: they should be compared in the sense that Lisp should be hailed as king, put on a throne and fed grapes, while C++ should be stabbed in the eye and thrown in a dark abyss. 20:51:29 no. 20:51:33 Trollinator: Actually, how long have you been using Scheme? 20:51:53 i almost haven't used it. 20:51:57 jlongster: Thanks. 20:52:01 Trollinator: Do you know any Emacs? 20:52:05 no. 20:52:20 *neilv* rests his case 20:52:25 *arcfide* laughs. 20:52:30 nice 20:52:33 *Quadrescence* rests his case too. 20:52:51 *jlongster* doesn't have a case to rest. 20:53:08 DrScheme: For when you need to write a compiler in Scheme by tomorrow, and you don't know Scheme or Emacs. 20:53:13 it's the new marketing slogan 20:53:17 Trollinator: DrScheme has an integrated REPL/Editor like Edwin, but Edwin is like Emacs. So, if you don't feel like learning a little emacs, editing in DrScheme might be easier for you. 20:53:33 good 20:53:37 neilv: as i said, it's a *very* simple toy language 20:53:45 Trollinator: Otherwise, using LOAD and MIT Scheme is probably fine. 20:54:06 Trollinator: If it's a single file little program, I don't think it'll be that bad one way or the other. 20:54:15 jlongster: I feel good that you said the thing above. 20:54:39 Go to http://download.plt-scheme.org/ , install, start DrScheme, and use the Help menu to open the documentation in your Web browser 20:54:48 Quadrescence: :) 20:54:59 then stop wasting time on internet chat rooms, and start coding 20:55:04 i just installed it via the package manager 20:55:30 that works too. any version of plt should be satisfactory 20:55:36 Alternatively, install Petite Chez Scheme and SWL and do the same thing. :-P 20:55:59 i guess you're right 20:56:09 Trollinator: We welcome procrastinators. 20:56:21 what would that be? 20:56:28 (english is not my native language) 20:56:32 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-228-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:10 Trollinator: People who avoid doing work until the last minute. :-P 20:57:18 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 20:57:21 good thing 20:57:33 well it's hardly the last minute though 20:58:00 just to give you an idea, the language we're supposed to compile only has 6 instructions 20:58:48 Sounds like brainfuck. 21:08:45 brainfuck has 8 21:10:12 mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-064-142-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:10:39 -!- mike_ is now known as Guest94803 21:15:21 -!- Trollinator [n=foo@g226225202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:13 pah, in my day, we only needed one instruction 21:16:19 subtract and branch if negative 21:18:40 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0560A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:23:44 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 21:25:18 geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:30:46 Trollinator [n=foo@g226225202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:30:58 thanks for the tip with drscheme, it looks helpful 21:35:15 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-65-114.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 21:39:24 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFBCAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:03 -!- jao [n=jao@11.Red-79-155-154.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:49:43 is there a nicer way to make lists than (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3)))? 21:49:58 err, (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) 21:50:08 rudybot_: eval (list 1 2 3) 21:50:09 jlongster: your sandbox is ready 21:50:09 jlongster: ; Value: (1 2 3) 21:50:33 rudybot_: (list (* 2 2) 4 6) 21:50:33 Trollinator: eh? Try "rudybot_: help". 21:50:40 rudybot_: eval (list (* 2 2) 4 6) 21:50:41 Trollinator: your sandbox is ready 21:50:41 Trollinator: ; Value: (4 4 6) 21:50:52 great, thanks 21:51:49 -!- cky [n=cky@166.166.19.136] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:53:41 incubot: what did you do with sarahbot? 21:53:45 It's not quite that case is insignificant. Rather, two symbols that are read with READ and that are written the same way in every respect except case will be equal. 21:54:07 incubot: case closed. 21:54:10 a continuation, delimited or otherwise, will be a closure over a a stack of sets of local variables. What this means, though, is not that it will be closed over their *values*, but over their *locations*. 21:58:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@50-124-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:04:56 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:09:01 http://improveverywhere.com/2009/04/14/cw-11-files-copyright-claim/ 22:12:36 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 22:14:52 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:18:09 head spinning: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090413.html 22:20:25 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 22:20:32 incubot: I have only one instruction... in twenty-seven parts 22:20:35 I just hacked up a fifty-seven line patch in Scheme48's reader to implement #cs/#ci. 22:22:02 incubot: where? 22:22:05 where water-struct holds all info about water 22:22:46 incubot: you are being incoherent. 22:22:49 would you mind coherently asking your previous question before going on to another incoherent one? 22:22:55 you tell 'im 22:23:21 *sladegen* slaps incubot with a tuna fish. 22:25:38 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFBCAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 22:25:53 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0560A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:55 i wonder who did that s48 reader hack 22:33:00 hey sladegen 22:34:18 jao [n=jao@54.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:38:04 I guess it was Riastradh, because #cs/#ci is his idea 22:38:10 Who here writes out numerals? 22:38:18 hey jao! 22:38:29 jao: ping ping ping! 22:43:29 scheme is rather verbose. 22:44:02 (map (lambda (x) (* 2 x)) '( 1 2 3)) is map (*2) [1,2,3] in Haskell :/ 22:44:10 yeah, compared to APL 22:44:12 A regular Verbal Kent. 22:44:19 Kent? 22:44:36 Kent. 22:45:06 Trollinator: if you want tersity, maybe Scheme isn't for you, but I wouldn't call it verbose. 22:45:31 there's too many parenthesis 22:45:39 ... 22:45:44 Oh, Kint, apparently. 22:45:44 minion: advice for Trollinator 22:45:44 Trollinator: #11904: Who the fuck cares which one is faster? 22:45:46 You *are* so a troll. :-) 22:45:53 but sorry, i shouldn't be complaining about scheme here. 22:46:11 no, you should be -trolling- about scheme here; complaining is fine 22:46:12 Trollinator: You'll find that parentheses won't bother you once you learn to use indentatin. 22:46:15 s/tin/tion/ 22:46:54 i do indent 22:47:06 *shouldn't. Don't get the wrong idea. 22:47:23 or isn't this indented properly? http://codepad.org/ohwdpP4d 22:47:26 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:47:41 In a word: no. 22:47:47 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 22:47:55 oh well, how should it be done then? 22:48:01 And, holy.... 22:48:08 *arcfide* cracks his fingers. 22:48:13 Okay, we've got lot's of work to do. :-) 22:48:23 tell me all about it. 22:48:32 (i know the code is rather repetitive) 22:48:44 No wonder you think Scheme is verbose. 22:48:48 that is indented properly, arcfide 22:48:48 This is verbose code. 22:48:51 hehe 22:48:57 zbigniew: Not on my screen. 22:49:31 zbigniew: I've got the first few tests indented way in, and the other things indented only a space instead of two. 22:49:53 And all those ))))) on a single line. 22:50:17 tbh, i don't care too much about the indentation, i'd rather learn how to make it less long 22:50:19 CASE would help here, I think. 22:50:35 arcfide: Something's wrong with your screen. 22:50:48 Trollinator: use emacs and Ctrl-/ 22:51:03 no, i won't touch emacs. 22:51:05 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:51:09 i've tried it and hated it. 22:51:14 arcfide: ))))) is fine in certain cases, this being one of them 22:51:28 Trollinator: Also, You're testing your instr with absolutely no parsing of operators. 22:51:37 zbigniew: I would argue this is an inappropriate place for it. 22:51:48 umm... M-/ 22:52:08 The only indentation error is that the LET is over a few spaces too far. Reindenting with M-/ doesn't change the shape of the code and is irrelevant here. 22:52:45 arcfide: yes, that's because the program is given as a LISP list. 22:52:54 Trollinator: You should be parsing your input to break the code into a parse tree with different classes of nodes, such as operators, and so forth. 22:53:04 Trollinator: dabbrev-expand is good for any language... /me kisses emacs on its head. 22:53:33 They give you '(x:=x+1 y:=y+1) as valid input? 22:53:35 i. e. '(x:=x+1 y:=y+1 (ifx=0 (1 1 1 1))) etc. 22:53:38 yes. 22:53:48 ..... 22:53:50 No way. 22:54:15 I can see '(x := x + 1)... 22:54:22 But surely not.... 22:54:47 arcfide: that's the way the language is specified. 22:54:54 It's called Norma2 btw. 22:55:06 Are you ABSOLUTELY sure this is the syntax they are giving you? 22:55:10 arcfide: why not? x:=x+1 -> INX or INCX 22:55:14 100% 22:55:30 zbigniew: I presume then, that there is a separate symbol for 'x:=x+2, .... 22:55:30 they could just as well have used x++ or somehting 22:55:43 arcfide: no, there isn't 22:55:46 Huh? 22:55:53 duncanm: pong, pong, pong! 22:55:56 x:=x+2 -> INX INX 22:56:00 arcfide: you have to do x:=x+1 x:=x+1 22:56:10 Oh, okay, that's not so bad. 22:56:24 Weren't you here when he said it was a 6-instruction language or so? 22:56:25 -!- Guest94803 [n=m@dslb-088-064-142-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:56:37 zbigniew: If he had a symbol for every permutation of x:=x+n then he'd have an infinite case statement going if he didn't break the symbol to a string. 22:56:43 well, 7 22:56:49 7. 22:56:51 zbigniew: I was, and I presumed that := and + were two of them. 22:57:31 i surely wouldn't have done it that way if 'x:=x+1 weren't defined as tokens ;) 22:57:44 arcfide, what are you getting at? There is no ADD instruction that takes 2 operands. 22:58:13 zbigniew: Huh? 22:58:16 There's just an add-1-to-x instruction, and an add-1-to-y instruction. 22:58:32 right 22:58:44 zbigniew: Yes, I get that now, but that syntax lead me to think that the language had a general + operator. 22:58:56 b 22:59:04 $ 22:59:37 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 23:00:06 If the token were '|inc x| or 'x++ or some such, I wouldn't have thought that. Nonetheless, the use of x and y also led me to think that the language has variables such as x and y which can be defined. 23:00:30 I am used to seeing something like that being defined as a register such as '|INC R0|. 23:00:31 no, there are only x and y 23:01:48 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:00 Trollinator: It's not particularly verbose. There are ways to make it less verbose, such as using CASE or MATCH, and perhaps QUASIQUOTE instead of all the LISTs, but you won't be able to use these. 23:03:11 Or you have to find an underlying pattern. 23:12:20 zbigniew pasted "other indentation strategy" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78654 23:12:55 arcfide: on the other hand, could be an assembly language, with separate instructions for the two registers... 23:13:07 arcfide: sorry, never mind, you covered that already. 23:13:08 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:13:16 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 23:14:01 alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:34 -!- alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:43 alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:46 -!- alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:06 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-212-251.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:16:45 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:22:56 zbigniew: i don't know quasi-quotes yet. Is `(x y z) equivalent to '(x y z) except when you prefix one of the list entries with a comma? 23:23:10 yes Trollinator 23:23:18 not exactly 23:23:33 like ``x is different from ''x 23:24:07 that's rather sweet 23:24:23 you understand it now? 23:24:52 what? 23:25:36 -!- bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:26:26 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:30:07 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.149.5] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:31:16 anyone use the hash syntax for numbers? just discovered it; # -> 0, doesn't it, with an implicit #i? 23:31:24 incubot: (= #i100 1##) 23:31:24 #t 23:36:29 hashes mean insignificant digits I think 23:37:17 wonderful, my compiler seems to be working. 23:37:30 thank you for the help 23:38:39 good night 23:38:57 duncanm: ping? 23:39:20 -!- Trollinator [n=foo@g226225202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #scheme 23:40:32 -!- bpalmer [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #scheme 23:42:03 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:50:24 Alright!