00:01:52 -!- hornbeck [n=hornbeck@70-7-80-25.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:08:10 exexex [n=chatzill@85.102.129.17] has joined #scheme 00:10:08 kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 00:10:36 -!- kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:05 davidad [n=me@96-32-117-251.static.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:13:35 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE7F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:53 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 00:16:47 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0540F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:37 bsod... haha! 00:17:53 *proq* waits to be unsued 00:25:09 -!- TTTH [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:30:09 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEC11.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:19 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:34:17 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:43:55 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:47:35 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 01:05:07 Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 01:12:31 -!- rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:19:40 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:20:03 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:22:20 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:22:27 notByan [n=notByan@logo.csl.mtu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:22:29 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:22:39 hey, is there a way to use map with a static value? 01:22:55 e.g. ? 01:23:00 so, if I want to add 2 to a bunch of things.. 01:23:03 rudybot: eval (map (lambda ignored 123) (list 'blah 9 ' (what up))) 01:23:06 offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 01:23:06 offby1: ; Value: (123 123 123) 01:23:22 I could do (map + list 2) 01:23:22 rudybot: eval (map (lambda (x) (+ 2 x)) (list 9 10 1000)) 01:23:23 offby1: ; Value: (11 12 1002) 01:23:28 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 01:23:47 yeah.. I know you can do that.. mm 01:23:50 I don't think (map + list 2) makes any sense. 01:23:53 but that makes things messy 01:23:56 rudybot: eval (map + list 2) 01:23:56 offby1: error: map: expects type as 2nd argument, given: #; other arguments were: # 2 01:24:04 offby1: no, it doesn't.. 01:24:16 I want a map that will do that.. 01:24:22 MESSY? You call the beautiful child of Steele and Sussman MESSY?! 01:24:53 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has left #scheme 01:24:57 and how did it get red hair? 01:25:29 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 01:25:47 *offby1* glances around nervously. 01:25:48 neilv: being born to Welsh parents? 01:26:55 -!- davidad [n=me@96-32-117-251.static.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:27:51 davidad [n=me@96-32-117-251.static.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:37:10 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 01:39:20 -!- McManiaC [n=nils@vpn1186.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit ["leaving"] 01:40:42 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.102.129.17] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:08 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 01:53:34 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-29-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:00:26 rudybot: eval (define (+/n n) (lambda args (apply values (map (lambda (i) (+ n i)) args)))) 02:00:27 synx: your scheme sandbox is ready 02:00:41 rudybot: eval ((+/n 2) 1 2 3 4) 02:00:42 synx: ; Value: 3 02:00:43 synx: ; Value#2: 4 02:00:44 synx: ; Value#3: 5 02:00:45 synx: ; Value#4: 6 02:02:11 seems mostly cosmetic to me, to make it easy to "add 2 to things" 02:02:24 rudybot: eval (define (op/n n) (lambda args (apply values (map (lambda (i) (op n i)) args)))) 02:02:33 rudybot: eval (define (op/n op n) (lambda args (apply values (map (lambda (i) (op n i)) args)))) 02:02:44 -!- bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:02:50 rudybot: eval ((op/n - 2) 1 2 3 4) 02:02:50 synx: ; Value: 1 02:02:51 synx: ; Value#2: 0 02:02:53 synx: ; Value#3: -1 02:02:53 synx: ; Value#4: -2 02:03:36 huh, that came out in backwards order to what I'd expect. 02:03:45 Oh (- 2 i) 02:03:52 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 02:04:25 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-123-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:49 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:31:04 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE7F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:38:11 -!- meanburrito920_ is now known as zigggggy 02:38:51 -!- zigggggy is now known as meanburrito029_ 02:38:59 -!- meanburrito029_ is now known as meanburrito920_ 02:58:23 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-228.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Sleep"] 02:59:14 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:03:20 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:03:52 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:12:39 does scheme have a way to die? 03:12:46 Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. I want to preserve the state of the connection by not trying to get a new response until the old one is completely gotten. 03:12:53 like, if something is unrecoverable, I just want to stop 03:13:04 notByan: Try (exit) 03:13:16 But you never know... 03:13:50 If the python twisted developers ever came here I bet they would override the default exit handler to make sure you could never quit. 03:14:17 But I'm not bitter, honest. :< 03:15:10 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:15:14 notByan: No, Mister Bond: I expect you to die. 03:15:17 rudybot: eval (exit 0) 03:15:18 *offby1: error: evaluator: terminated (exited) 03:15:21 rudybot: eval (exit 0) 03:15:22 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 03:15:22 *offby1: error: evaluator: terminated (exited) 03:15:22 sounds good 03:15:53 hehe okay sandboxes are an exception. Don't want those to kill the bot when you call exit. 03:15:59 ayup 03:16:32 But that doesn't mean the bot can't exit. 03:19:49 he exits when I _tell_ him to exit, mua haha 03:20:03 I'm my own man!! 03:21:41 bleah... no way to tell when an output port is 'finished'. Even if you close it, I can't find any events that would notify of that. 03:22:27 And you can't continue across threads...hm... 03:25:08 I'm trying to make it so if you leave the upload handler, but don't close the output port, you can still output to it until you're done. 03:25:25 man, this whole thing is just so hard to conceptualize... 03:26:07 jao` [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:26:45 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:27:07 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:28:04 -!- jao [n=jao@obfw.oblong.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:28:56 -!- jao` is now known as jao 03:34:09 Cale_ [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:34:57 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:35:05 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 03:36:13 -!- guenther1_ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:46:13 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:52:53 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:53:55 what's wrong with this index? http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs/r6rs-Z-H-21.html#node_index_start 03:55:10 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:55:44 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 03:56:29 Lack of line breaks? 04:04:29 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:05:12 mad_muppet [n=pure@219-89-135-81.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 04:07:09 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:07:27 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:10:26 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176207241.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:12:45 Im looking at a tutorial online at www-pu.infomatik.uni-tuebingen.de/users/sperber/pfg-2001/scheme/schintro-v14/shintro_3 and it has an example where two lists are equal .. when I tried it I dont get the same answer 04:15:01 wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:23:01 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179195063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:27:15 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176221142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:30:25 I tried using a eq? which is what the pages shows and got a #f answer used an equal? and got the correct answer so now Im not sure whether he made a typo 04:31:30 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:32:38 -!- wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:34:28 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit ["Goin' away"] 04:36:33 -!- mad_muppet [n=pure@219-89-135-81.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:36:53 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 04:39:15 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-136-235.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:39:22 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-131-76.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:39:44 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:45:01 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:45:06 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 04:46:12 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:47:03 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:49:40 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-131-76.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:52:45 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:55:37 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 05:03:10 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 05:17:51 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.167.150] has joined #scheme 05:17:52 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit ["Goin' away"] 05:22:23 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 05:25:40 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-69-23-38-57.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:29:22 I have a list and a procedure.. 05:29:32 so, lets say I have cdr and '(1 2 3) 05:29:46 how do I do (cdr 1 2 3) 05:29:53 you don't 05:30:00 at least not without an error 05:30:55 .. why not? 05:31:08 erm 05:31:10 sorry 05:31:17 I did that wrong.. 05:31:27 rudybot: eval (cdr 1 2 3) 05:31:28 geckosenator: your sandbox is ready 05:31:28 geckosenator: error: cdr: expects 1 argument, given 3: 1 2 3 05:31:32 I have a list and a procedure 05:31:42 + and '(1 2 3) 05:31:51 how do I do (+ 1 2 3) 05:31:58 rudybot: eval (apply + 1 '(2 3)) 05:31:58 geckosenator: ; Value: 6 05:32:10 o.O 05:32:13 rudybot: eval (fold + 1 '(2 3)) 05:32:14 geckosenator: error: reference to undefined identifier: fold 05:32:20 oh well 05:33:19 you get the idea 05:33:49 ok, apply works 05:33:50 thanks 05:35:47 elderK [n=zk@222-152-99-8.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:35:54 Aloha 05:36:12 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:36:24 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:19 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-69-23-38-57.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:44:22 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #scheme 05:45:14 Hey, does anyone have any useful information for 1) combinators (whatever the hell they are...) and 2) Monads (again, wth they are ...) 05:45:15 :) 05:45:20 I'd be muchly greatful, so I would. 05:45:22 *elderK* nods 05:45:53 can I force scheme to throw an error? 05:46:07 I guess I could just do something stupid >_> 05:46:18 elderK: google "monad scheme" 05:46:54 notbyan: install plt and search help for "error" 05:47:19 ;) notByan: yeah, you could. 05:47:40 I'm still pondering BIO stuff. 05:47:47 neilv, whether to implement it as a C-side extension to Scheme. 05:47:56 or purely in Scheme, with all the performance pain that implies. 05:48:14 oh and hey, is Riastradh around? 05:48:21 Like, actually here? 05:48:30 I have some questions for him regarding referentially transparent trees :) 05:57:41 elderK: got Okasaki? 05:58:38 Sayawhatasaki? 05:58:39 o_O 05:58:42 and hey, Adamant:) 05:59:15 elderK: Okasaki wrote the book on purely functional data structures, literally 05:59:34 I can find a copy of his Ph.D dissertation that was a basis for his book 05:59:50 which was done with US Gov funding so it's public domain 06:00:02 Handy. 06:00:09 So far, everything I can find on Monads is crashing my brain. 06:00:40 it's like a kick to the monads 06:01:02 :P 06:01:03 amen 06:02:39 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/theses/okasaki.pdf 06:02:56 that's the Okasaki 06:03:08 there was also a good recent monad tutorial for Haskell I can find 06:04:51 :P Any chacne I can skip on Haskell man? 06:06:20 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:06:23 elderK: Haskell is the biggest user and abuser of monads 06:06:34 http://noordering.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/how-you-shouldnt-use-monad/ 06:06:44 it gives you a basic idea of what they are 06:06:55 in this bit 06:08:04 Next thing, what is currying? :) 06:08:31 ok 06:09:45 elderK: (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 06:10:14 a generator. 06:10:40 the enclosing function returns the subfunction inside, which clsoes over the argument passed into the enclosing function 06:10:46 which we say, apply, to some new parameter 06:10:47 ie: 06:10:55 right 06:10:57 you got it 06:11:09 so, basically, we can emulate state. 06:12:25 in some languages, all functions take 1 parameter only 06:13:02 to me, currying just seems to be the same as just... binding a static variable bit not. 06:13:04 *but 06:13:12 :) So, practical use of currying? 06:13:47 with currying, you're taking a function with one argument and returning a function that can take the next argument and so on, then once it's done taking arguments it can return what it should return 06:14:00 OH I see! 06:14:03 It's a more natural way of CPS!@ 06:14:06 or at least that's a common use of it 06:14:08 yes 06:14:14 it is linked to CPS 06:14:38 well, it certainly makes CPS cleaner to write, for sure. 06:14:42 and CPS and SSA for imperative languages are both linked 06:14:59 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:15:07 and both are fairly good strategies to use as a basis for compiler optimization 06:16:21 :) 06:18:11 thanks for that Adamant, geckosenator. 06:18:11 :) 06:18:17 :) 06:19:31 I wish I understood optimization better 06:19:52 I"m just trying to brute force it.. it looks like the best I can do is look at 5 instructions at a time 06:20:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:20:22 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-205-114.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 06:22:13 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 06:23:32 hey alaricsp! 06:23:44 Morning elderK! 06:28:21 Hey man, we need to like, do some emailin' 06:28:25 pants1 [n=hkarau@206-248-129-226.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 06:28:29 get thinking on what we would like from a binary io thing. 06:28:37 whether to implement as an extension in C, made available to Scheme via FFI 06:28:41 or all in Scheme itself. 06:29:56 elderK: it you want to play around with bittwiddling in Scheme 06:30:05 you may want to look at Erlang's interface 06:30:11 see if you can adapt it to Scheme 06:30:43 it does some cool bitmassaging thinngs 06:31:01 but, you'd have to integrate it into Scheme syntax, or lack of it 06:31:17 I think OCaml had something like Erlang's interface, too 06:32:41 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:34:54 Adamant: What I want to do is useful :P Bit-twiddling can already be done easily. 06:34:57 Logic operators are tehre. 06:34:59 No problem. 06:38:11 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-134-71.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:40:35 elderK: yeah, Erlang is just particularly nice among the functional-type languages when you're twiddling bits 06:41:02 because it was designed to do a lot of binary, on the wire type stuff 06:41:12 aye. 06:41:19 man, this monad stuff is still breaking my brain 06:41:21 lol 06:41:31 It's like a friend wh olistened to coldplay for 3 hours 06:41:36 "It makes me fee llike dying, in a good way" 06:41:36 :P 06:41:37 lol 06:42:38 ow 06:42:58 elderK: how much math do you know? 06:43:11 done any abstract algebra at all? 06:43:49 a tiny bit. 06:43:49 :P 06:43:54 I'm mostly all self taught 06:44:00 Math, admittedly, is my weak spot. 06:44:16 I've always wanted to get into more of it - but, I've never been able to get too much resources - at least, that I could use. 06:44:20 elderK: ask on #haskell if they can find you a college undergrad type intro to monads 06:44:21 what is your strong spot? 06:44:38 from a algebraic/cat theory perspective 06:44:49 there was a good one being passed around that helped me out a lot 06:44:50 cheers Adamant. 06:45:01 geckosenator: I'm not sure If that is meant as offensive or not? :P 06:45:06 Or are you asking in earnest? 06:45:38 I'm asking 06:46:06 imagination is the best strong spot 06:46:39 which is what mine is, mostly, anything abstract. I love to design, I love to visualize. That /is/ my strong spot. 06:46:46 I don't just... code. coding is just something you pickup. 06:46:53 but designing, seeing - actually /seeing/ it 06:47:02 seeing it all working ,all the pieces communicating, running, all in sync... 06:47:06 well good, then you can "visualize" the computer machine 06:47:16 the data structures :D their shapes :D 06:47:19 it's not something you could draw, but you can understand it that way 06:47:38 visualize whirled peas 06:48:50 neilv: now what? 06:49:44 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:51:09 PROFIT! 06:51:30 elderK1 [n=zk@222-152-97-23.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:51:50 There we go. 06:51:58 Adamant: I'm readin gthis ,currently, http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dherman/research/tutorials/monads-for-schemers.txt 06:52:01 :P It hurts. 06:52:01 lol 06:52:02 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2hvhh3 06:58:12 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-205-114.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 07:06:35 -!- 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[n=bernhard@p549A1994.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:19:21 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:20:11 is there a standard function to set a certain index in a list? 09:20:13 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:20:18 like there is vector-set! and vector-ref 09:20:21 and list-ref 09:20:43 but no list-set! 09:21:19 geckosenator: not in r5rs. lists aren't intended for random access. the lists srfi might have something, though 09:21:46 ok 09:22:06 in general, try to avoid mutating lists. plt has recently gotten very hostile towards that 09:22:38 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:23:18 hostile? 09:23:44 I wish I could just use a container which is some form of lists of vectors 09:23:54 then the compiler woudl figure out how to arrange the memory 09:24:02 depending on how I use it 09:25:11 you *can* still do mutable lists in plt, but they are not the same types as normal lists, which breaks everything 09:25:21 uh 09:25:21 normal being immutable, now 09:25:35 why would I use plt? 09:26:56 just wanted to give you a heads-up, in case you might someday want to use plt 09:27:44 well I want to someday not have mutation 09:27:53 by writing a scheme->scheme compiler 09:32:36 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:35:37 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:36:59 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:37:40 McManiaC [n=nils@stud246026.studentenheim.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #scheme 09:44:54 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:49:36 -!- pants1 [n=hkarau@206-248-129-226.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:52:03 -!- errordeveloper 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[n=Archvill@11.Red-79-150-207.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:20:43 Hi 14:22:33 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.128.23] has joined #scheme 14:38:42 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 14:42:30 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:50:22 -!- davidad [n=me@96-32-117-251.static.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:57:49 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-25-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:58 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-25-7.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:01:14 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:02:10 sanita [n=sanchy@84.13.201.103] has joined #scheme 15:07:06 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:09:36 incubot: (define (cr datum) datum) 15:09:36 # 15:17:16 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 15:20:30 incubot: mumble humble bumble 15:20:34 bumble dumble trumble. 15:20:38 *offby1* backs away slowly 15:20:44 incubot: la la la 15:20:57 aha! Now I've got you. 15:21:43 -!- McManiaC [n=nils@stud246026.studentenheim.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit ["leaving"] 15:22:23 McManiaC [n=nils@stud246026.studentenheim.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #scheme 15:22:36 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:38 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:25:00 I've just started useing Google Reader and you know what? It offered me to subscribe to a`Planet Scheme' RSS feed. Does Google spy on me? 15:25:07 s/useing/using 15:26:42 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has joined #scheme 15:27:04 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-328674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:28:33 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:28:48 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:56 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-328674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:34:07 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:29 lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has joined #scheme 15:38:11 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 15:38:50 of course it does 15:38:53 seriously 15:38:57 that's how they serve ads 15:43:10 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-208-190-39-239.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 15:43:55 -!- borism [n=boris@195.50.201.96] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:48:51 Well, I've looked through recommended rss' - seems, that the recomendations reflect my google searches - mostly tex and scheme 15:49:14 npe [n=npe@softbank219039114109.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 15:50:21 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:51:24 sure 15:51:54 they're just trying to be helpful -- and to sell ads :) 15:52:23 But adblock usually blocks google ads as well :) 15:56:53 davidad [n=me@118.192.125.209.transedge.com] has joined #scheme 15:57:00 yup 15:57:50 obviously it doesn't do as good a job as you assumed 16:00:13 ? 16:10:02 -!- ASau [n=user@95.84.54.192] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:14:30 mejja_ [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 16:15:15 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-129-173.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:16:00 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.75.229] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:16:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:41 -!- mejja_ is now known as mejja 16:19:00 -!- davidad [n=me@118.192.125.209.transedge.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:19:05 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:21:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:39 davidad [n=me@118.192.125.209.transedge.com] has joined #scheme 16:30:52 synx: `it' = google or adblock? 16:33:36 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.57.58.146] has joined #scheme 16:34:10 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:18 tin-foil hat? 16:36:43 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:37:39 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:37:56 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has joined #scheme 16:49:07 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:54:07 -!- Archville [n=Archvill@11.Red-79-150-207.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 17:00:00 forcer [n=forcer@f054021196.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:05:23 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Success] 17:20:57 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:22:52 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:30:00 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-68-35-213-157.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:38:11 synthase [n=synthase@c-68-35-213-157.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:43:15 ASau [n=user@pppoe-88-147-178-249.san.ru] has joined #scheme 17:46:50 -!- npe [n=npe@softbank219039114109.bbtec.net] has quit [] 17:49:04 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:49:32 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:55:48 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 18:04:44 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:09:50 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:55 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:19 elderK [n=zk@122-57-246-4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 18:22:24 Morning guys 18:23:13 which part of the world are you living in ? :) 18:23:30 Hawaii? 18:24:12 offby1: NZ :p 18:24:23 yep 18:24:24 New Zealand 18:24:27 heya ASau 18:24:28 :) 18:24:34 Good evening. 18:24:49 ASau, I feel like I know you from somewhere else man. 18:25:16 It may be. 18:26:09 previous life, probably. 18:26:12 Aye. 18:26:16 I'm figuring OSDev. 18:26:16 :) 18:26:30 Ah, those were the days. 18:27:01 nostalgia isnt what it used to be ;) 18:28:04 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 18:28:12 :P Sorry guys 18:28:14 I literally just woke uop 18:28:15 :P 18:28:16 Just out of bed. 18:28:22 Scrambling for my morning cigarette. 18:28:22 lol 18:28:34 can't find my freaking matches :O 18:28:35 *elderK* howls 18:29:33 ASau, are you still at all involved with kernel development? Or? 18:30:09 No, I quit all those. No time. 18:30:31 Fair enough man. 18:30:31 :) 18:31:26 I'm still mildly obsessed with it all ,even after 4 years. 18:31:27 I have enough tasks within my responsibilities in NetBSD project. 18:31:40 Although, these days I tend to experiment with improving certain things. 18:31:42 :D 18:31:43 Oh dude, 18:31:47 :D Tell! 18:33:20 Riastradh: You happen to be here man? 18:35:22 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 18:38:33 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-96-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 18:41:58 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:43:43 If you have a quick question, yes, elderK. 18:44:05 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-68-35-213-157.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:46:24 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:47:00 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:47:50 Riastradh: I'll have to wait til later I guess man :) It's about trees and the like in a functional language, specifically, the referential transparency. The entire "don't copy the tree" gets... quite insane when nodes have parent links... 18:48:12 That's right. 18:48:23 or, something like AVL, where the fundamental shape of the tree changes quite often 18:49:01 AVL trees don't require parent links. Purely functional rebalancing is pretty straightforward. 18:49:04 I was hoping I could talk to you about it all, but hey, whenever is good for you. 18:50:04 Riastradh: well, no, they don't. But, it depends whether or not you use the stack to leave a trail of where youve been. 18:50:22 So use the stack. What's wrong with that? 18:50:28 Purely iterative or... tail call wise, things get more complicated. Unless of course, you create an explicit stack to trace where you've been 18:50:50 Why create an explicit stack when you can just use the built-in one? 18:51:13 ideally 18:51:17 you shouldn't use a stack at all :P 18:51:20 thus, iterative AVL. 18:51:20 Why? 18:51:37 It may, or may not really... matter in Scheme. 18:51:49 But, overhead. 18:51:58 You need to record the reverse links somehow. Either you do this with parent links, which make persistent update unpleasant; or you do this with an explicit stack; or you do this with the built-in stack. 18:52:09 Recursing down the tree, pushing new stackframes... over and over and over, then returning throguh all of them. It's expensive. 18:52:15 syntropy [n=who@unaffiliated/syntropy] has joined #scheme 18:52:51 So, what programs have you written in which you identified the primary bottleneck as the stack frames pushed during the updates of an AVL tree? 18:53:19 It wasn't the primary bottleneck. 18:53:28 It's just that the purely iterative version was faster :) 18:53:29 Are you prepared to show code, timings, and a precise description of the environment on which you tested this? 18:53:29 hey Riastradh 18:53:39 Far, far faster. 18:53:54 When you actually observe a performance *problem*, let me know. 18:53:59 Performance masturbation is not what I'm interested in. 18:54:00 ~_~ 18:54:23 You know Riastradh - I wasn't trying to start an argument, man. I'm simply sharing alternative points of view. 18:54:28 you really, really don't have to be insulting. 18:54:39 I mean, i'm not saying you are WRONG or anything. I'm simply saying... 18:54:48 -!- proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:54:59 I apologize. I did not mean to insult you, but what you are describing is an approach to building programs that I find to be highly counterproductive. 18:55:04 and to be honest, whether or not the frames and call overhead hurts, depends entirely on the frequency and use of the tree. 18:56:29 most of the time, the frames and stuff mean nothing. And, you'd be better off to implement it recursive-style. That's fine, and, I am aware of that - and I'm aware of how much easier it is, when written in that style. 18:56:36 As for code, I have code of iterative AVL I can show you. 18:56:43 I doubt you'd like it - It's in C. 18:57:30 Riastradh: Although, referential transparency seems an acceptable trade :) 18:57:54 I don't doubt whether you have some variously tweaked and microoptimized fragments of code to compare. What I question is whether you were developing a useful program that exhibited performance problems which you isolated to the performance of your AVL trees, *after* the program already worked usefully. 18:58:04 take an insignificant speed hit (in most cases), and gain a tree that is safe through the aeons! 18:58:16 Yes. 18:58:19 Memory management software. 18:58:51 `Memory management software'? I'm thinking more like `I have a large amount of scientific data which I need to analyze for my research, and if I used the slower code, it would take me a year to process all my data. That's not acceptable.' 18:58:52 and apart from that - :) intellectual challenge :) 18:59:16 What I don't have in mind is something like `I can save a few cycles in some toys that I'm experimenting with.' 19:00:09 One, they aren't toys. Two, developing highly optimized software was something I was paid to do :) 19:00:17 OK. 19:00:37 If most software were developed with that mentality, we'd hardly ever have any useful software written. 19:00:37 :) Simply different perspectives :) 19:00:38 But hey! 19:00:43 That's what makes this channel cool :D 19:00:46 It's what makes the world living in. 19:00:51 useful? 19:01:02 I tend to think that a system that performs quickly as useful. 19:01:06 Look at the world today? 19:01:15 The system needs to be written before it can perform. 19:01:17 Where software requires more and more, where little functionality is gained. 19:01:47 Yes - it does. But that doesnt mean that while you are writing it - you shouldn't recognize where you can improve speed. 19:01:50 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:01:55 It's like anything else. You gain insight, experience. 19:02:27 Riastradh, about your latest blag entry: 19:02:28 You call the continuation return-to-iteration, created by for-each, with zero arguments in the appendix. 19:02:30 According to R5RS however, only call-with-values can create continuations that take anything other than 1 value. 19:02:34 I agree that maybe begin/for-each etc should accept any number of values, but this may not be the case in some implementations. 19:02:36 I can't reproduce it with the latest version of PLT Scheme, but it used to signal an error when given anything other than 1 value. 19:02:40 (I found this when trying the code in composable-continuations on the community wiki, which I suspect you wrote too.) 19:03:43 begin can also swallow any number of return values 19:03:50 Not in the R5RS, technically. 19:05:33 I was not aware of any Scheme implementation whose BEGIN rejected multiple return values, though. 19:05:45 I wish Sassy supported amd64. 19:05:53 Fix it, syntropy. 19:06:04 oops sorry i didnt see you noted begin :) 19:06:37 Riastradh: I'm thinkin about it, but I don't know Sassy internals. 19:06:45 I know R6RS specifies this explicitly 19:06:56 MIT Scheme's implementation of multiple return values is broken, so that every escape procedure is unary, but I'm not aware of any other Scheme systems with the same problem. 19:07:28 Read and learn, syntropy. 19:09:11 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:09:33 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 19:10:44 and hey, Riastradh, please, don't denigrate past projects by calling them toys... that's just, really, really mean man. 19:11:15 Sorry, most people who come in here talking about this level of microoptimization really are concerned about toys. 19:11:30 :P Well yes, but they are morons. 19:12:45 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 19:13:33 Never optimize blindly - like you said - software has to be built for. And even then, measure - optimize only where and when it's necessary and whether or not it's necessary, depends entirely on whether it's performance is adequete to the users of that software. 19:14:01 and whatever situation it is being used in 19:14:08 right? 19:17:15 lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has joined #scheme 19:19:41 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit ["leaving"] 19:19:57 Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 19:20:50 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:21:11 Right. 19:32:44 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:33:13 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:35:07 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 19:39:45 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 19:39:53 rcassidy [n=rcassidy@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 19:47:45 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:49:52 pants1 [n=hkarau@206-248-181-126.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 19:51:03 -!- sanita [n=sanchy@84.13.201.103] has quit [] 19:51:45 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:55:27 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:05:48 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:05:49 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:06:05 benny [n=benny@i577A1FFA.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:06:29 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:06:54 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:10:52 dsmith [i=v8gup2gx@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:20:07 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A261B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:08 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 20:34:58 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:37:30 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-208-190-39-239.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 20:41:26 benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486B201.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:30 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:35 -!- benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486B201.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:02 -!- davidad [n=me@118.192.125.209.transedge.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:52:20 -!- Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 20:59:13 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:59:37 ejs [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:07 ejs1 [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:13 -!- syntropy [n=who@unaffiliated/syntropy] has quit ["leaving"] 21:29:32 -!- ejs [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:43 -!- halfcore [i=noam@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:02 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:01:19 mib_91id5bg6 [i=8ddbcdea@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-daa3c6416eb2d911] has joined #scheme 22:09:50 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 22:11:05 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-201-204.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:11:37 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:42 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 22:20:27 Hi, in an if statement, i want to run multiple commands for the else statement, how would I go about doing so? Also, is there a way for me to combine multiple (display) calls? 22:22:34 you can sequence expressions with (BEGIN expr1 expr2 ...) 22:23:12 thank you! 22:23:35 I put my expressions in a (let () expr1 expr2 expr3) 22:23:46 however that seems semantically better 22:25:15 you can also use cond instead of if 22:25:55 thank you! 22:26:05 schemers... 22:27:31 about the second question, most schemes have a format or printf procedure, or you can find it in some srfi's 22:27:49 s/schemes/scheme implementations/ 22:30:55 mib_91id5bg6: You can also use list 22:31:15 mib_91id5bg6: (if a b (list c d e f g)) :p 22:32:01 (begin ...) is just about identical to (last (list ...)), though very likely more efficient. 22:32:08 i'm greatful for your help guys! (gals?) 22:32:21 rudybot: eval (if #f 'false (begin (display "one") (display "two"))) 22:32:21 *offby1: ; stdout: "onetwo" 22:32:29 rudybot: eval (if #f 'false (display "one") (display "two")) 22:32:30 *offby1: error: eval:1:0: if: bad syntax (has 4 parts after keyword) in: (if #f (quote false) (display "one") (display "two")) 22:32:35 QED 22:32:38 synx: if you enjoy having c d e f g evaluated in an unspecified order 22:32:47 rudybot: eval (unless #f (display "one") (display "two")) 22:32:48 *offby1: ; stdout: "onetwo" 22:32:59 begin does not evaluate in a specified order either p1dzkl 22:33:11 Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 22:33:12 yes it does 22:33:22 ? 22:33:43 huh, you're right. I thought it didn't. 22:34:45 Alright then (begin a b c d e) is about the same as (car (cons e (cons d (cons c (cons b (cons a null)))))) 22:34:55 (define null '()) 22:35:26 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:36:00 in terms of order of evaluation, I guess. 22:36:05 The result is certainly different though. 22:37:02 The result is e... 22:37:09 In both instances. 22:38:45 The reason it isn't exactly equal is because every expression in a begin statement could have multiple values, and cons only takes one value. 22:39:30 That and begin doesn't bother accumulating and discarding the values of the other expressions. 22:39:36 But the result is the same? 22:39:54 (begin also only takes one value in strict r5rs, as discussed 3.5 hours ago) 22:41:06 wrldpc [n=worldpea@c-76-19-107-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:41:54 oops ._. didn't know that either 22:41:54 I wish everything could take multiple values. n.n 22:44:04 I want (a (b c d e)) to be equivalent to ((compose a b) c d e) 22:44:09 and a pony too. 22:46:52 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 22:48:33 (define (compose x y) (lambda stuff (cons x (list (cons y stuff))) (display "and a pony") 22:49:33 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-228.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:49:39 Gaah. 22:49:40 *arcfide* wants to procrastinate. 22:50:05 Any worthless but nonetheless boringly interesting benchmarks that serve no useful purpose for me to run? 22:51:25 arcfide: you could always find the biggest open source project you can think of and try to compile it 22:51:52 then parallelize it's make for multicores and see if it runs faster 22:51:59 that should kill a little while 22:52:01 Adamant: Good idea, it's been at least a couple of days since I compiled the latest CVS of OpenBSD. 22:52:13 arcfide: too small 22:52:16 think bigger 22:52:17 :shakes head: 22:52:24 Adamant: Like...Firefox? 22:52:35 Adamant: Oh, I know! OpenOffice.Org! 22:52:54 hmm.. an entire Red Hat/CENTOS desktop system 22:52:58 emerge an entire gentoo install! 22:53:04 with allt he packages 22:53:06 with all the goodies, compiled from source 22:53:06 Adamant: Bleh.... 22:53:13 mib_91id5bg6: that would be easier 22:53:22 and does about the same thing 22:53:36 Methinks I'm not *that* in need of procrastination time. 22:53:42 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@c-76-19-107-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:53:44 Besides, even then, there's nothing that I *DO* in that. 22:53:56 I would still be stuck with what to do while I wait for the compilation to finish. 22:54:14 hmm 22:54:17 program something? 22:54:24 *arcfide* sighs. 22:54:30 :P 22:54:49 Well, I do have that Lisp Mode project for Vi.... 22:55:10 But that's so...useful. 22:56:58 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@66.97.144.9] has joined #scheme 22:57:02 arcfide: write a Byzantine fault generator for network protocols :P 23:01:17 Hehehe. 23:01:32 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:14:35 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:19:18 nwardez [n=anonymou@85.218.61.136] has joined #scheme 23:21:56 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw372060.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:28:04 -!- nwardez [n=anonymou@85.218.61.136] has left #scheme 23:32:30 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:34:40 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:38:19 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:41:52 is there an easy way to use an identifier in a string? 23:42:42 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057752.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:43:37 -!- Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 23:45:17 is it bad to use double quotes? 23:46:52 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:51:26 mib_91id5bg6: srfi-28, srfi-48, srfi-54, iiuc 23:52:45 thanks 23:55:50 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:16 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:57:39 -!- neilv is now known as ipv4_425c471d 23:59:07 -!- ASau [n=user@pppoe-88-147-178-249.san.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]