00:00:03 -!- vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Quitting!"] 00:00:23 i was just gonna as about modules :) 00:00:27 ask 00:01:05 thats one thing I like about R6RS :) 00:01:09 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:52 all bindings are immutable 00:02:06 So, then, the next step is making sure that all the normal Scheme bindings are immutable in the scope, which can be done with (LET () (IMPORT SCHEME) ...). 00:02:26 And if you want to export something, (MODULE (...) (IMPORT SCHEME) ...). 00:02:31 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:02:54 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:03:10 leppie: yeah, in the next version of Chez Scheme, the code within a single library will get this treatment, but I don't know that it can't compile effectively accross libraries, yet. 00:03:15 ok im off to bed, gonna sleep till moday 00:03:24 See ya. 00:03:32 s/can't/can/ 00:03:58 yeah, that's hard :) 00:05:39 berat [n=berat@hopper.cs.bilgi.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 00:05:41 hey 00:05:55 berat: Hello. 00:06:04 s76__ [n=todos@2-60-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:19 i am in plai scheme.And i examine some code but code is old and drscheme version 203 00:06:37 i use 401 i ask are there any function that maes the juob of memv? 00:08:06 i cannot us memv? function this is undefined 00:08:11 ? 00:08:16 rudybot_: eval memv 00:08:17 mejja: your sandbox is ready 00:08:17 mejja: ; Value: # 00:08:23 you know memv? predicate 00:09:47 hmm 00:09:55 memv? and memv is same thing ? 00:10:04 do you know something about that 00:10:55 berat: I think you have just been handed your answer. 00:11:07 berat: Why not give rudybot a try? 00:11:38 berat: memv is one of those predicates in scheme that dont end with a question mark 00:11:38 i dont know what memv s actually i see hile examining some codes 00:11:54 some would argue that it's not really predicate I guess 00:11:57 berat: What does MEMV? do? 00:12:05 let me show you 00:12:11 dudrenov: I would be one of those. 00:12:17 me too 00:12:48 lisppaste, url 00:12:49 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 00:13:03 berat: You should be able to type a single line example here. 00:13:47 If I had to guess, I would say something like (MEMV? 101 '(100 101 102)) => #t. 00:14:13 berat pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76995 00:14:48 berat: what is this? 00:14:48 rudybot_, eval (MEMV? 101 '(100 101 102)) 00:14:49 berat: your sandbox is ready 00:14:49 berat: error: reference to undefined identifier: MEMV? 00:15:02 this is lambda calculus actually 00:15:19 i try to write some lambda calculus function which makes beta reduction 00:15:28 rudybot_: eval (define memv? (lambda (e l) (and (memv e l) #t))) 00:15:28 arcfide: your sandbox is ready 00:15:39 rudybot_: (memv? 101 '(100 101 102)) 00:15:40 arcfide: eh? Try "rudybot_: help". 00:15:43 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:15:45 rudybot_: eval (memv? 101 '(100 101 102)) 00:15:45 arcfide: ; Value: #t 00:16:11 memv returns the middle of list ? 00:16:17 sorry 00:16:28 specbot: r5rs memv 00:16:28 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_430 00:16:30 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/as3hxo 00:16:37 see middle of list and check with elements then return boolean #t or #f 00:16:40 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-165-128-172.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:45 berat: Read ^^^. 00:16:51 okey 00:17:39 ii open the adres 00:18:15 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-165-128-172.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:20 -!- berat [n=berat@hopper.cs.bilgi.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:25 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 00:33:25 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:33:37 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:35:54 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-74.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:37:59 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 00:41:48 -!- cipher [n=cipher@pool-71-184-152-81.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:44:07 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:52:14 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:56:33 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:57:17 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:04:15 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:05:37 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 01:05:37 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:12:13 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:12:22 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-159.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:04 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 01:14:28 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has left #scheme 01:15:53 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:19:46 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:22:23 -!- bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:34:01 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:35:28 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFEC36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:37:00 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has left #scheme 01:37:16 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-151-203-235-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:45:29 berat [n=berat@hopper.cs.bilgi.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 01:51:58 levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 01:52:09 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE95B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:03 Is there a standard definition of CALL-WITH-OUTPUT-STRING? 01:53:54 I am wondering about the reentry into a procedure wrapped in a CALL-WITH-OUTPUT-STRING. Is the port reopened, or would the port have been closed when it left? 01:54:05 Sorry, and stayed closed, is what I meant. 01:55:22 Never thought about that, but I guess you might as well leave it open. 01:55:39 foof: Well, if there is never a return into the procedure, then you have a leak. 01:56:29 If you keep hold of a reference to the procedure but never use it, that's your own stupid fault :) 01:57:08 Well, it's not keeping a reference to the procedure, per se, but I'm talking about the port being leaked. 01:57:17 Just like if you keep hold of references to a 100MB array that you don't need, or images that you don't need, you will quickly run out of memory. 01:58:20 Well, I guess I will just do the naive implementation for right now. Someone send me an email if there is a more refined and efficient way to handle it. 01:58:24 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@w137021.wireless.fsr.net] has quit ["Gotta go!"] 01:58:33 To be able to reenter the procedure after it has exited, you need to have captured a continuation somewhere and be holding on to that continuation. If you don't need that continuation, it's a programmer error. 01:59:23 so this should work fine: 01:59:24 (define (call-with-output-string proc) (let ((p (open-output-string))) (proc p) (get-output-string p))) 01:59:59 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0FED.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:00:57 The said truth is GC is not prescient. 02:01:00 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:01:47 karlw [n=user@asuc-wlan-net-63.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:04:02 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 02:08:24 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:15:32 maodun [n=stopgo@c-24-130-16-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:46 -!- maodun [n=stopgo@c-24-130-16-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 02:16:09 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-169-126.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:16:24 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-218.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:16:34 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-251-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:21:34 borism__ [n=boris@195-50-199-115-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:24:00 -!- borism [n=boris@195.50.199.18] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:24:18 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 02:24:48 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-81-173-129-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:00 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-251-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:16 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:30:14 if i'm trying to determine if an item in a list is equal to the character V , < or >, will this work? 02:30:18 (equal? (car list) (or 'V '> '<)) 02:32:38 no, (or 'V '> '<) expands to the 'V (the first non-false value), so it will check if the car is equal to the symbol V 02:33:32 so if it's not 'V it wont continue checking if it's then > or no, try to evaluate it in your head 02:34:17 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-218.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 02:35:26 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-218.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:35:49 would i need to do something like (or (equal? (car list) 'V) (equal? (car list) '<) (equal? (car list) '>)) 02:36:53 that would work, but the usual way is (member (car list) '(V < >)) 02:37:13 heh that works too :) 02:37:25 is member included by default in most scheme implementations? 02:37:54 i think i might have something like 'member?' 02:38:00 Check the R5RS LobsterMan 02:41:13 i got it, thanks :) 02:41:57 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 02:42:13 and real quick, if i'm correct, cadr is "the car of the cdr" or essentially the 2nd item in a list? 02:43:43 yes 02:43:47 ok :] 02:52:20 maybe the CASE form is the right construct for your problem 02:54:18 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:54:41 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:58:23 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:48 sadawana [n=guest@203.205.112.143] has joined #scheme 03:12:24 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.191.74] has quit [] 03:15:11 Wow LobsterMan you really /are/ just starting out at scheme. 03:22:20 -!- berat [n=berat@hopper.cs.bilgi.edu.tr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:27:28 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:32:09 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 03:32:22 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-165-128-172.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:32:39 -!- karlw [n=user@asuc-wlan-net-63.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:35:52 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-165-128-172.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:37:14 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.165.2.126] has joined #scheme 03:38:04 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:53 xwl [n=user@114.245.142.245] has joined #scheme 03:40:06 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:43:08 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 03:44:11 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:44:25 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 03:50:21 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:12 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179199023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:22:15 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-151-203-235-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:28:36 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:28:44 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:13 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@68.237.103.91] has joined #scheme 04:35:52 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-125-240.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:36:18 -!- sadawana [n=guest@203.205.112.143] has quit ["Boogey"] 05:02:54 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:06:33 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:10:26 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176202248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:13:29 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:13:50 -!- LobsterMan is now known as LobsterMan_AFK 05:15:25 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:22:45 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:27:49 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176219048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:32:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:42:24 -!- ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@221.235.61.201] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:42:58 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.61.201] has joined #scheme 05:44:39 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:47:45 maodun [n=stopgo@c-24-130-16-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:51:36 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:39 Suppose you can get seconds in modulus 60 and microseconds in modulus..... (expt 2 32). There are 1000000 microseconds for every second, and they're reasonably exact. At any given moment, how do you calculate how many microseconds have passed since the last second? 06:03:43 That is, the microseconds are in a 4 byte integer and rollover, and actually I think one bit is for the sign so it's (expt 2 31). 06:05:06 yes I know it's staggeringly dumb to put an unsigned unbounded number in a signed bounded integer. 06:05:37 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:06:22 I guess there's no way to tell without some reference time when the seconds and microseconds lined up. 06:10:15 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:13:29 This is kind of bad. How do you sort very frequently generated things chronologically? :( 06:20:18 gettimeofday(2) 06:20:29 Gives you seconds and microseconds separately. 06:33:08 -!- LobsterMan_AFK is now known as LobsterMan 06:42:51 That's nice foof, but... well I suppose I might as well depend on something else system specific. 06:44:42 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 06:50:29 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 07:00:06 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.165.2.126] has quit [] 07:08:43 weinholt [n=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 07:18:35 So supposing I want to know the size of a time_t or suseconds_t... 07:21:21 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 07:34:26 I dun' get it. How do you call a c-lambda from a scheme module when using compiler/cffi? 07:35:18 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 07:35:29 meh I'll just write a C library. 07:42:58 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:43:42 (expanded from ): temporary failure. 07:43:42 Command output: connect: No such file or directory 07:43:55 synx: have you not been getting plt-scheme email for the last week? 07:49:08 neilv: Where'd you get that email? 07:49:33 And I have been working on this postgresql module for the last week... haven't checked my email in almost a month jeez. 07:49:36 i got a bounce from a message i posted to the plt-scheme list last sunday 07:50:16 the head of my old lab informed everyone that anyone who didn't check email for 2 days was fired :) 07:50:26 Can't imagine how it got to you. Comcast has me completely walled off. 08:03:21 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:10:18 mmc [n=mima@gw1.teleca.fi] has joined #scheme 08:16:06 I've never worked for a lab before. 08:19:58 -!- xwl [n=user@114.245.142.245] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:20:08 synx pasted "microsecond date structure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77006 08:20:08 Hey check it out: 08:20:35 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:21:01 Now that's what I call cleaning house with a fire hose. 08:23:31 sorry, that'll only work with plt's FFI. u.u 08:23:48 On a computer with gettimeofday 08:24:06 whose timeval members are time_t and suseconds_t 08:28:36 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 08:33:42 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:40:33 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 08:55:55 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! 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[n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:49:16 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 11:54:46 -!- jao [n=jao@207.Red-83-37-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:59:32 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:59:58 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:46 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 12:26:03 jao [n=jao@148.Red-83-39-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:32:31 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:37:06 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:44:48 -!- higepon413 [n=taro@FL1-122-135-165-8.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:45:19 higepon775 [n=taro@FL1-122-135-165-8.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 12:46:43 vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:54:24 -!- higepon775 [n=taro@FL1-122-135-165-8.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:58:28 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A231B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:08:21 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-1-143.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:12:06 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 13:18:31 -!- halfcore [i=support@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:26:15 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:26:55 r5rs file 13:26:56 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for file. 13:27:21 r5rs write 13:27:21 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_622 13:27:23 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5dxt7x 13:28:02 rudybot_: apropos file 13:28:02 Fulax: matches: call-with-input-file, call-with-output-file, open-input-file, open-output-file, with-input-from-file, with-output-to-file. 13:32:40 hmm, does R5RS not even specify how to append to a file? 13:32:55 no 13:33:38 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has joined #scheme 13:36:31 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 13:44:27 reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-23-242.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:45:03 duncan__ [n=duncan@pD9E23701.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:46:05 Hi guys. I am packaging plt-scheme for a Linux distro and I have some questions. I get lot of files duplicated in /usr....{compiled, private..} is that normal? 13:52:37 tr3 [n=tr3@host207-237-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 13:54:06 -!- jah [n=jah@91.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:55:55 mmmulani [n=mmmulani@nat/uwaterloo/x-f7a6d24af298bd4e] has joined #scheme 13:56:13 how do you get mzscheme to load a file and go into interactive mode, 13:56:21 when the file starts with "#lang scheme"? 14:07:37 -!- reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-23-242.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:13:26 hkBst: R6RS does :) 14:20:26 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 14:28:12 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:36:28 duncan__: How do you mean, duplicates? 14:44:35 pervonisse [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #scheme 14:45:07 hm.. I'm reading the first "lambda paper" and I'm trying out some of the code in it 14:45:21 but I get this error that labels isn't defined 14:45:23 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:45:42 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 14:46:25 labels is a common lisp thing 14:46:42 no equivalent exists in scheme? 14:47:17 Isn't it a bit weird that they use it in what they call a scheme "reference manual" ? :) 14:47:29 letrec in scheme 14:47:47 ok 14:48:12 pervonisse: consider the date of said "reference manual" 14:48:39 Daemmerung eh, true that! 14:49:02 jkff [n=ekirpich@ppp91-122-174-22.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #scheme 14:49:26 reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-40-145.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:49:51 mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-064-143-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 14:50:18 -!- mike_ is now known as Guest91209 14:50:36 mmmulani: mzscheme --repl --require yourfile.ss 14:50:40 -!- s76__ [n=todos@2-60-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:57:03 -!- pervonisse [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 15:01:40 -!- reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-40-145.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:04:50 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 15:05:15 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-151-203-235-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:05:42 Dezlagrate [n=Dezlagra@unaffiliated/dezlagrate] has joined #scheme 15:08:21 reprore_ [n=reprore@EM114-48-40-145.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:16:52 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.191.74] has joined #scheme 15:17:28 Daemmerung: that runs the program, how do I make the definitions from my .ss file apply to the interpreter? 15:21:11 sreeram_ [n=sreeram@59.92.22.108] has joined #scheme 15:22:29 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.191.74] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:22:37 -!- sreeram_ is now known as sreeram 15:30:12 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:37:16 -!- [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:42:33 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #scheme 15:44:58 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 15:51:46 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 15:54:13 Daemmerung: I think I solved it by running "(enter! "myfile.ss")" from the interpreter 15:54:17 thanks though :) 16:01:53 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:02:08 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:02:44 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@EM114-48-40-145.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:03:51 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 16:11:31 -!- tr3 [n=tr3@host207-237-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:14:28 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 16:16:17 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:16:29 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:48 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:18:24 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@59.92.22.108] has quit [] 16:21:05 mmmulani: you would have to export some set of bindings from the `require'd .ss file that you wished that module to make available. The brute-force way would be to add the expression (provide (all-defined-out)), perhaps immediately after your #lang scheme line. `enter!' works rather differently. As always, I commend the relevant sections of the excellent PLT documentation. 16:22:19 *Daemmerung* thinks that perhaps he could write in a more stilted manner if he applied himself 16:26:46 Daemmerung, mmmulani: `enter!' was added to make drscheme-style module language (aka "get a repl in the context of a module without providing everything") possible. 16:27:07 duncan__: What files are duplicated? 16:30:43 rmns1 [n=ramunas@78-61-90-37.static.zebra.lt] has joined #scheme 16:31:46 Is there a corresponding `exeunt-omnes!'? 16:31:58 EOF I suppose. 16:34:46 Daemmerung: Ugh... How should I know what *that* means...? 16:34:57 Daemmerung: In any case (enter! #f) does that. 16:35:50 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.191.74] has joined #scheme 16:39:14 ejs [n=eugen@161-114-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 16:48:28 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:55:45 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-169-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:58:06 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:46 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 17:03:01 ehehe I just implemented sizeof in scheme 17:03:06 it's horrifying 17:03:55 I was like "couldn't I just...?" and once again Frankenstein's monster has been created. 17:04:38 my website is down but I could paste it... eh. 17:05:02 (call/cc (k) (sizeof k)) => ? 17:05:02 upload it to planet 17:06:59 synx: What is `sizeof in scheme'? What does it do? 17:07:29 Judofyr_ [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 17:07:49 Mr-Cat: It returns the size in bytes of any C type. 17:09:23 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-82-81-47-32.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:30 Emmm, how can you compute sizes in bytes in scheme? 17:09:55 Or is it for particular scheme implementation? 17:10:04 FFI hackery 17:10:05 It's for plt-scheme. 17:10:23 hackery of the utmost degree. 17:11:01 I'm trying to learn how to catch exceptions in Scheme, is "call-with-exception-handler" what I want? 17:11:27 Which Scheme? 17:11:28 with plt-scheme, you'd use "with-handlers" 17:11:38 My initial try violated the contract for call-with-exception-handler because I was giving it a string (return value of a proc) rather than a proc. 17:11:52 neilv: Ahh, I'll give that a try. 17:11:58 Daemmerung: Sorry, PLT Scheme v4 17:12:06 I'm working with net/nntp. 17:12:12 kspaans: call-with-exception-handler is usually paired with call-with-escape-continuation. But most people just use with-handlers. 17:12:23 *kspaans* RTFMs 17:12:31 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:49 if you're using plt-scheme, you also need to bookmark the manuals. you can just search to answer most questions 17:12:55 I use call-with-exception-handler to implement a crude sort of unwind-protect. Otherwise with-handlers is fine. 17:13:29 neilv: Indeed, call-with-exception-handler is the first proc in the chapter on handling exceptions. 17:13:58 PLT Scheme being a rare example of a Scheme with a manual worth bookmarking. 17:14:07 For sure! 17:15:52 http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/html/guide/exns.html 17:16:24 normally, you will want to use the copy of the manuals on your local disk, but the web version is good for giving people urls 17:16:26 Ahh, I was reading the reference on exceptions, not the guide. 17:16:31 Some offtopic: For Emacs 23 - how can prevent color-theme extension from changing fonts? 17:19:42 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-82-81-47-32.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 17:20:14 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:53 The reference/guide dichotomy is pretty severe... it's hard to get to the guide from the reference. 17:23:07 Be nice if there was a related-guide-stuff column or something. Backlinks... 17:24:43 synx pasted "unwind-protect for plt" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77022 17:25:51 synx: such links can be very good, feel free to post suggestions on the mailing list 17:26:03 It'll only unwind on exception or conclusively leaving the block, not on any continuation passing. 17:26:03 except weird stuff... 17:26:24 synx: As for sizeof -- there are two versions of a sizeof, look in the docs and you'll see them. 17:26:26 really should register a will-executor on a local variable. 17:26:40 That'd do it for sure. 17:27:15 eli: Not for any C type though, only the ones plt already pays attention to. 17:29:18 I needed the size of "suseconds_t" for instance. Or a struct maybe. 17:35:38 I wish vim had quack - not emacs 17:41:45 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@195.159.114.206] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:43:29 -!- rryan`` [n=rryan@ATRIUS.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:44:47 -!- Judofyr_ is now known as Judofyr 17:44:54 -!- jkff [n=ekirpich@ppp91-122-174-22.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has left #scheme 17:50:28 gwern [n=gwern@wikipedia/Gwern] has joined #scheme 17:52:02 quick question - doing an example scheme definition, but is there any function to 'abort' a function if the input turns out to be unhandleable? (I'm looking for something akin to haskell's 'error') 17:52:04 r5rs scheme does not have an "error" procedure, but every other one does 17:53:16 http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/html/reference/exns.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._error)) 17:53:30 that's the plt-scheme one. it is a bit more featureful than most 17:53:47 hm, I'm in dr.scheme, which I believe would be plt-scheme? 17:54:04 yes 17:54:28 it is in the real languages. it might not be in the teaching languages 17:55:15 select "Help Desk" from the "Help" menu, then search for "error" 17:55:31 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 17:55:40 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 17:55:49 Hot, I got it to work. Thanks neilv. Pasted here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/77024#1 17:55:54 gwern no 17:56:32 vixey: aww 17:57:54 In Dr.Scheme one should select `module' language to use full-featured plt scheme 17:59:35 synx annotated #77022 "unwind-protect with executors (still for plt)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77022#1 17:59:39 gwern, you could have a top level continuation called ERROR if you like 17:59:46 gwern, to implement this 17:59:59 rudybot: eval (define error (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (i) i))) 18:00:18 vixey: heh. I'm nowhere near continuations 18:00:23 rudybot: eval (begin (display 'x) (error 'failed) (display 'y)) 18:00:25 duncan [n=duncan@pD9E239FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:00:25 Though frankly I don't think anything depending on timely garbage collection and un-synchronizable other threads would be all that reliable either. 18:00:34 maybe rudybot isn't even here 18:00:40 rudybot: eval error 18:00:43 still in the first chapter, and was comparing haskell's guards & if-then-else with scheme's cond & if 18:00:47 vixey: he's rudybot_ 18:00:54 rudybot_: eval (define error (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (i) i))) 18:00:54 vixey: your r5rs sandbox is ready 18:00:54 for now 18:00:59 rudybot_: eval (begin (display 'x) (error 'failed) (display 'y)) 18:00:59 vixey: ; stdout: "xy" 18:01:17 maybe I should just will-execute in unwind-protect. 18:01:49 that's verry odd 18:02:01 #;> (define error (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (i) i))) 18:02:01 #;> (begin (display 'x) (error 'failed) (display 'y)) 18:02:01 x#;> error 18:02:01 failed 18:02:04 that's what SISC does 18:02:11 I don't see why rudybot is acting differently 18:03:04 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has joined #scheme 18:03:09 kspaans: you hot 18:03:21 kspaans: lets sex with continuations 18:03:34 *kspaans* punts pantsd 18:04:36 Hm vixey, I don't understand, why (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (i) i)) should fail 18:04:58 top level continuations are kind of weird 18:05:26 (define error (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (i) i))) 18:05:41 oh 18:05:43 it works in SISC 18:05:49 I don't understand top level continuations, period. 18:05:52 I don't know why it should be different in the bot 18:05:53 rudybot_: eval (define error (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (i) i))) 18:05:53 Mr-Cat: your sandbox is ready 18:05:57 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-180-221.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:05 -!- eno [n=eno@adsl-70-137-169-126.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:06:16 vixey: maybe sisc does not implement continuations proprtly 18:06:22 *properly 18:06:33 rudybot_: eval (error 123) 18:06:50 Something to do with prompts probably. 18:07:55 -!- khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 18:08:09 I don't get how it works :P 18:08:20 It does the same in chicken, btw 18:10:05 *gwern* goes back to watching the sicp lecture 18:10:34 Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has joined #scheme 18:11:06 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:11:20 Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has joined #scheme 18:11:33 synx pasted "how to stop continuations?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77027 18:11:42 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 18:11:46 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 18:12:18 See that's what puzzles me about continuations. There oughta be a way to implement dont-continue-past-here or something, but I don't know it. 18:13:09 use reset/shift 18:14:28 I heard delimited continuations are implementable with full continuations in some way 18:15:37 http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/shift-reset.scm there it is 18:16:54 Yes vixey but the documentation of reset and shift consists pretty much wholly of the phrase "The essential reduction rules are:" 18:17:28 -!- duncan__ [n=duncan@pD9E23701.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:53 everything else is greek x.x 18:18:36 Why yes, I can create two lambdas too. But how does that stop a continuation? 18:20:07 synx: Do you want to throw out the initial continuation? 18:20:23 So that in your example (+ _ 2) never executes? 18:21:45 No I just want something that is equivalent to "(lambda (n) (+ n 2))" except supporting recursion. 18:21:59 ...thus facilitating non-mutating generators. <.< 18:22:37 synx: I don't quite get what exception support in this case is :( 18:22:58 (something 2) does really return 5, but then it continues on to the code that called it, displaying foo and looping infinitely. 18:23:10 s/rexception/recursion 18:23:17 I want to get rid of the "then it continues" part. 18:24:47 Ah, I see 18:25:55 p1d annotated #77027 "with reset/shift" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77027#1 18:26:25 (the students in SICP don't look very happy to be there. :) 18:26:46 When you call a continuation there's no way to indicate how to get back. So I usually end up calling continuations with the values what-I-want-to-send and also the current continuation. But then I have to set! a variable to that return continuation or I'll lose it. 18:28:06 T_T but how does that even work Mr-Cat? Reset is a pass through function and shift just creates two lambdas and calls one on the other... 18:31:31 In fact I'm ignorant about shift and reset (shame on me). But now I'm thinking on vixie's `error' function... 18:31:53 okay, well thanks anyway... 18:33:58 there's fun to be had with delimited continuations by the way 18:39:16 WOW 18:39:57 With vixie's `error' interpreters just go mad 18:40:57 See: 18:41:11 rudybot_: eval (define error (call/cc (lambda (i) i))) 18:41:35 rudybot_: eval (error "This should work fine, but produce no output") 18:41:42 rudybot_: eval (error "This should fail") 18:41:43 Mr-Cat: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: "This should work fine, but produce no output"; arguments were: "This should fail" 18:41:47 yay 18:42:49 Wow. 18:42:59 It retroactively defines error to be the result of the call to error. 18:43:51 Thus proving that you can set! using define. 18:43:52 Plt, chicken and my hand-made interpreter all behave this way. I believe, works for all interpreters, that perform cps to implement continuations. And sisc seems to use some other technique, so, that's an error there. 18:44:10 http://rafb.net/p/rXT1xi79.html 18:44:28 rudybot_: eval (define value (call/cc (lambda (c) c))) 18:44:28 synx: your scheme sandbox is ready 18:44:32 rudybot_: eval value 18:44:32 synx: ; Value: # 18:44:41 rudybot_: eval (value 23) 18:44:54 rudybot_: eval value 18:44:54 synx: ; Value: 23 18:45:33 -!- rmns1 [n=ramunas@78-61-90-37.static.zebra.lt] has left #scheme 18:45:39 Oh, scheme just blows my head away 18:46:41 Hm... Or maybe then, that's not an issue with cps. In both chicken and my interpreted (dunno about plt) define is roughly equal to set!... 18:47:00 So, that's all about `define' semantics, maybe? 18:47:44 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78.86.1.110] has joined #scheme 18:47:50 Oh, really. I understand that for now. 18:50:37 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Out of Memory: Killed process [9823] xchat."] 18:53:52 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:53 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 18:57:28 zandax [n=roehrich@85.183.24.201] has joined #scheme 18:57:30 hello 18:59:16 hi 18:59:30 19:00:37 Can someone tell me a good place for pasting Scheme source? 19:00:48 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78.86.1.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:55 www.awesome-scheme-pastebin.com 19:01:06 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:01:29 vixey: that site doesn't exist :( 19:01:50 aw 19:01:55 lisppaste: url 19:01:55 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 19:01:58 I kind of want to make it 19:02:05 thanks 19:02:07 it could be great 19:02:32 zandax pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77030 19:03:04 I visited this place some days ago because I started a little Pac-Man game. 19:03:05 zandax: pac man in scheme makes you the bomb 19:03:13 ? 19:03:20 zandax, that's a good thing 19:03:38 I am new to scheme so I need some help perhaps :) 19:03:54 thanks 19:04:41 I was told I could not avoid mutation so I used set! to move the Pac Man. But I wanted to ask if theres maybe a more elegant way to do so. (btw. it's not nearly finished but wip) 19:05:35 -!- Guest91209 [n=m@dslb-088-064-143-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:05:37 I also went through the docs to find another way to check for key input but I did not find any. 19:06:19 mike [n=m@dslb-088-064-143-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:46 -!- mike is now known as Guest29457 19:07:37 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 19:08:38 -!- Guest29457 [n=m@dslb-088-064-143-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:45 for zandax, games mutation is almost a must. Many games are just big state machines however there is functional reactive programming which is suppose to help. FRP is still in it's infancy and I only know libs in Haskell for it. 19:13:25 wtf 19:13:29 "compiler-sizeof: expects argument of type ; given int8" 19:14:12 hmm, there was a series called "purely functional retrogames"; they probably were avoiding mutation 19:14:40 OH never mind wrong function. xp 19:14:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:15:19 FRP? 19:15:30 functional reactive programming 19:16:14 wingo-tp [n=wingo@125.Red-83-32-65.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:16:30 I wanted to port the code to Haskell so I could avoid mutation by using monads. However I had to use IORefs which in fact were state mutants. 19:16:40 good evening, connivers 19:17:00 And I did a game in Haskell which was not even based and that worked pretty well pure functional :) 19:17:25 FRP looks interesting 19:17:37 yeah, I don't like that haskell forces you to think in a functional way for everything 19:19:07 Haskell is complicated. I needed days to make an app running. Scheme let me do the same within hours 19:19:09 *wingo-tp* reads http://docs.plt-scheme.org/mzc/decompile.html 19:20:03 Yeah, scheme has more sane defaults imho. Let you create and enforce your own language on top of a mini one is nice. 19:20:11 synx pasted "generic sizeof" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77033 19:20:31 defaults.. 19:20:49 but I would still love to stay completly functional :) 19:20:53 hehe that's just the test module. Looks so calm on the surface. 19:21:21 maybe it would be possible with the addition for very strange recursion technics 19:21:23 halfcore [i=support@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 19:21:49 slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB693D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:58 -!- slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB693D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:22:17 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:34 Is there a nice library, MIT Scheme compatible, for doing MIME64 encoding? 19:22:51 slom [n=slom@pD9EB693D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:23:18 If you like Haskell you might like case-lambda... 19:23:20 is that the same as base64? 19:23:36 ah, I might have the name wrong, I think I do want base65 19:23:40 base64 rather, haha 19:24:09 perhaps if you search for that you'll find something more apropos ;) 19:24:36 case-lambda? :/ 19:24:45 :), I think I found it actually 19:24:51 cool 19:25:19 ladies&gents? who is going to ilc next week? 19:25:23 (load-option 'mime-codec) 19:25:38 case-lambda looks like a feature for implementing currying 19:26:04 case-lambda is a way to have different prototypes for a function without rest args. 19:26:18 provided your compiler implements it sensibly. 19:26:23 wingo-tp: What is `ilc'? 19:26:44 Mr-Cat: http://www.international-lisp-conference.org/ 19:27:01 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:27:14 hello mejja. 19:27:55 looks cool wingo-tp 19:28:18 zandax: yes i am excited to quaff beers with greybeards 19:28:41 should be amusing! 19:29:50 :D 19:30:00 v_ [n=v@219.138.127.157] has joined #scheme 19:31:00 so, unrelated: we know that lambda is the ultimate goto. does anyone know of any papers in which goto is turned into lambda? 19:31:43 i am writing a decompiler for guile's bytecode, which is a stack machine. not sure if i can do better than pattern matching, though. 19:32:16 Huh sorry zandax I don't think case-lambda can be self recursive. Not so useful then. 19:32:52 :/ 19:33:03 There's syntax rules at least. 19:33:29 But I still wouldn't know how to exactly use it in case. 19:33:54 I'm just trying to find parallels to Haskell's strategy of programming. 19:34:32 I see 19:35:58 Riastradh: hey TC, are you around? 19:36:44 synx pasted "haskell-like syntax-rules" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77034 19:37:07 I'm not sure how you'd do that in the run-time phase though. 19:37:14 implement pattern matching 19:38:01 Right, but that's the syntax phase vixey. 19:38:11 cool 19:38:49 Unfornuately I'm still new to Scheme so maybe thats a little to advanced for me but 19:39:08 I'll have a look at it's syntax features 19:39:15 eh, I'm still new to Scheme too. 19:39:23 :) 19:39:43 in this case I'm very new to Scheme 19:40:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@161-114-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:41:57 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:42:02 -!- v_ [n=v@219.138.127.157] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:06 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 19:42:22 v_ [n=v@219.138.127.157] has joined #scheme 19:43:24 slom annotated #77034 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77034#1 19:44:29 -!- slom [n=slom@pD9EB693D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:44:37 mmt, if you have a brief question, I am here briefly. 19:44:47 rudybot_: doc match-lambda 19:44:47 Mr-Cat: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/match.html#(form._((lib._scheme%2Fmatch..ss)._match-lambda)) 19:45:22 Riastradh: If I want to push large flonum arrays back and forth between python and scheme, what do you suggest? 19:46:01 Have you observed a performance problem with whatever you are doing now? 19:46:06 yep 19:46:08 Add a microcode primitive for it 19:46:29 Riastradh: push a few thousand numbers creates a obnoxious delay, on the order of 1-2 minutes 19:46:37 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:46:44 Well, you could be really sleazy and `cast' a flonum vector into a byte vector, provided that you can turn that back into a flonum vector in the Python side, and vice versa. 19:47:22 should I use system-pair-car to get at the vector? 19:47:51 or are there existing ways to do this? 19:48:19 -!- v__ [n=v@219.138.127.157] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:19 1-2 minutes! 19:48:22 This requires some sketchy hacking with the data representations with OBJECT-NEW-TYPE and possibly with adjusting pointers. 19:49:59 -!- zandax is now known as zandax|afk 19:50:40 Riastradh: I hypothesize the bottlenek in my current setup is going from flonums --> strings like "1.00119999..." 19:51:17 I was thinking using base64 on each end might solve that problem, treating each flonum like a series of bytes as you said 19:51:47 is there anything preventing me from grabbing byes of date from the manifest-nm-vectors? 19:53:09 mejja: was that a dig at MIT Scheme btw? 19:53:10 :P 19:53:27 dig? 19:53:35 attempt to make fun of 19:54:15 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:54:55 No. I would add a primitive for the job 19:56:44 Riastradh: I just understood what you were saying; create a vector-8b whose internal pointer points to the beginning of the flonum array 19:57:05 Riastradh: I'm happy making copies of memory, I just need to know how to get at the bytes in a flonum 19:59:51 real->bit-string appears to be one option 19:59:57 Oops. Sorry, the format of a vector-8b is incompatible with the format of a flonum vector. 20:00:03 Yes, you can get at the bits with bit string operations. 20:00:38 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 20:00:46 any caveats / suggestions on using this in conjunction with 'mime-codec? 20:01:07 Sorry, too busy to elaborate right now. Perhaps mejja can. 20:01:48 Riastradh: okay, thanks for your help :) 20:02:16 mejja: hi, I'm Mark, or smark is a nick name 20:02:48 exexex [n=chatzill@88.234.121.204] has joined #scheme 20:02:52 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:08 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:05:32 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:45 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 20:07:04 mejja pasted "example of read-bits!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77039 20:07:09 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 20:07:27 mmt: ^^ 20:09:28 oh, I found a read-bits! example already 20:09:54 thank you, I need to figure out how to use mime-codec to code it efficiently 20:10:15 mime-codec looks like a very large hammer for my small job though 20:10:18 See edwin/sendmail.scm or imail/imail-mime.scm. 20:10:46 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-169-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:54 I might instead write an encoding for flonum's first 20:11:10 send lists of flonums, and see if that actualy speeds things up 20:11:54 -!- noamsml [n=quassel@adsl-75-45-249-116.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:12:18 noamsml [n=quassel@adsl-75-45-249-116.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:07 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@78-106-169-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:16:18 Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 20:16:45 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:17:10 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:45 So in trying to test a module, that module necessarily requires other modules. How do I make a sandbox that doesn't error out when requiring? 20:19:55 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 20:20:44 "`read' access denied for blah/code/scheme/sizeof/compiled/native/architecture-blah/3m/c-compile_ss.so" 20:21:52 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:26:26 that sounds like an implementation-specific question. 20:26:47 ehe 20:26:56 call-with-trusted-sandbox-configuration seems to be the answer. 20:27:01 lolcow [n=lolcow@dsl-244-196-47.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:27:29 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-244-196-47.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:28:45 -!- Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #scheme 20:41:38 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 20:47:45 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:47:53 aack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 20:49:57 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:35 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:54 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:02:08 mejja: I hear there's an unboxed flonum array type in MIT Scheme, do you know what it is? 21:02:25 flo:vector-cons, flo:vector-ref, flo:vector-set!, &c. 21:02:49 Actually, flonums are just unit-length flonum vectors. 21:03:25 interesting, what's the predicate to test for these, it seems to not be flo:vector? 21:03:37 The compiler does a decent job with code that does flonum arithmetic in flonum vectors, without letting the intermediate flonum values escape, which requires consing extra storage on the heap. 21:03:58 Well, FLONUM?, really. 21:04:13 really? 21:04:15 okay 21:04:18 You can check whether it's not a unit-length flonum by querying FLO:VECTOR-LENGTH. 21:04:26 (...a unit-length flonum vector, I mean.) 21:05:07 Hey, does planet send a confirmation email? 21:05:13 registering I mean. 21:05:21 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:05:56 -!- heat is now known as dimaz 21:06:01 most places are damn paranoid bastards about it... 21:07:03 Oh I already have an account my bad. :D 21:07:05 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:07:09 -!- dimaz is now known as dima_z 21:12:52 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:13:29 mejja: wow, sorry for not looking more carefully at your example 21:13:50 mejja: is that code included in MIT scheme anywhere? our should I pull it into my codebase 21:16:50 It'a a few handy utilities I have. Not from the MIT source 21:17:26 so, it might better serve my purposes to load a flo:vector of more than one element in 21:17:51 your code seems to skip the header explicitly, I should be able to adapt it to this task pretty easily :) 21:20:48 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:29:11 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-75-59-214-44.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:41 Does plt include any vector graphics utilities (something similar to cairo maybe - and out-of-box, not via planet)? I'm searching docs, but cannot find anything. 21:30:36 *Mr-Cat* found something about scheme/gui and reads 21:30:41 yes 21:30:52 i think it actually uses cairo currently 21:31:01 and a later version will use it more 21:33:09 Well, is what I am searching for in scheme/gui or somewhere elase? 21:33:56 In fact I don't need gui for now - I'm just going to render images 21:37:50 look at "Drawing Classes" section in the "gui" manual 21:37:57 especially the "dc<%>" 21:40:57 ok thanks 21:43:03 You mentioned, it is based on cairo? 21:44:28 the api is a very old one. i think on x they use cairo to implement it nowadays 21:48:02 are there portable ffi's yet for r6rs? 21:48:38 agrr, dc<%> seem not to support affine transformations 21:49:28 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 21:50:41 Cairo at least supports separate all-except-scale and scale transforms. 21:52:26 there is an opengl api 21:52:33 slom [n=slom@pD9EB3EE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:53:12 Riastradh: mejja: Is there a simple way to go from bit-string -> vector8b 21:53:42 Well, maybe opengl will do for the first time. In fact, you're the second person here, who suggests using opengl instead of 2d libs 21:54:10 that's really the only missing piece at this point, as w/ mejja's code flo:vector -> bit-string is really easy, and w/ Taylor's mime-codec string -> base64 is easy 21:54:17 local gui apps are much less important than they used to be, anyway 21:55:07 i just wish we'd gotten scheme into the web browser instead of javascript 21:55:49 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 21:55:50 I wish we had some kind of JVM type thing instead of javascript 21:55:56 cairo is useful for non-desktop apps too 21:55:57 (but better) 21:56:07 then we could just write a compiler for any language we wanted and use that instead 21:56:14 -!- zandax|afk is now known as zandax 21:56:21 I don't think languages were advanced enough at the time for that though 21:57:51 vixey: Now javascript engines are essentialy full-featured virtual machines afaik. They're just not standartized. 21:58:26 vixey: compile to js :) 21:58:33 js sucks too much 21:58:39 Btw, there is an ocml-to-js compiler. Ocsigen users use it. 21:58:40 they're not typed, they lack tail calls, continuations, etc etc 21:58:48 compared to java bytecode? 21:58:56 there is also scheme2js from manual serrano 21:59:00 java bytecode also sucks 21:59:24 vixey: sure, but that's not a factor of languages being insufficiently advanced in 1993 21:59:49 Well, now flex and silverlight are becoming popular. Maybe, they'll replace js or influence it and it (js) will become better 22:00:09 ew. 22:10:05 not_noamsml [n=quassel@adsl-75-45-249-116.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:05 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-1-143.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:09 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:15:41 berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 22:15:42 hey 22:15:52 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:16:22 can someone suggest to me a tutorial or a source which tells lambda calculus for newbie ppl in lambda calculus issue ? 22:17:04 `Introduction to Functional Programming' by John Harisson 22:17:43 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:18:29 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:21:56 arcfide [n=arcfide@w137021.wireless.fsr.net] has joined #scheme 22:22:30 Hello. 22:22:35 IIRC, I offered you this book a couple of weeks ago. Was that you, who was implementing lambda calculus interpreter. 22:22:37 Hi 22:22:58 *arcfide* chuckles. 22:23:12 *arcfide* takes a wild guess. 22:23:43 hi 22:23:49 My post before `Hi' was for berat and should end with question mark 22:24:11 Mr-Cat: Wild guess confirmed. 22:24:53 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:25:48 -!- noamsml [n=quassel@adsl-75-45-249-116.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:25:59 Mr-Cat, i just start lambda calculus without knowing anything.This tutorial really helps me 22:27:23 berat: I'd also suggest `Type Theory and Functional Programming' by Simon Thompson after you become familiar with untyped lambda calculus. 22:28:12 Ok, my laptop has discharged and it's almost bedtime here. Goodbye. 22:28:18 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@78-106-169-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! 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