00:01:13 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 00:02:36 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:02:46 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 00:03:24 dsmith [n=dsmith@adsl-75-10-153-12.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:24 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.234.117] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:40 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:08:25 -!- Rhetosaur [n=heartles@203.97.179.3] has left #scheme 00:10:39 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 00:12:15 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:12:32 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:15:01 arcfide, I'd change OPTIONAL-INFIX to RIGHT-ASSOCIATIVE, for clarity. 00:15:16 Right. 00:15:22 Overall though, do I pass? :-) 00:17:34 It looks reasonable. Now change it to yield expressions, rather than numbers, and to accept names (which should be folded to reader case and interned as symbols). 00:17:58 You cruel, cruel person. 00:18:20 For expressions, I just have to use records instead of *,/,+, and -. 00:18:30 What? No, lists & symbols! 00:18:41 Ooh. 00:18:47 You don't want a parse tree? 00:18:48 :-) 00:18:56 Make 3+4*5/2^4 yield (+ 3 (/ (* 4 5) (expt 2 4))). 00:20:05 the IRC school of parsing and compilation... 00:20:27 And make 2^4/x-3*sqrt(z) yield (- (/ (expt 2 4) x) (* 3 (sqrt z))). 00:20:47 is -1 -1 or (- 1) ? 00:21:02 (- ... 1) 00:21:12 Fare: There is no unary - in this. 00:21:20 Exercise: Add a unary - operator. 00:21:30 muhahahaha! 00:21:46 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:22:04 reminds me when I was writing that in Pascal, with no theory, back in pre-internet-access days. 00:22:34 you have it so much better, these days 00:22:48 my - imagine we had PASCAL, for gossake! 00:23:06 For Gosling's sake? 00:23:24 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:54 Alright, expressions are done. 00:24:06 Names... 00:25:35 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:26:01 Is it just me, or did the colour of hyperlink text on Google change? 00:26:22 Suddenly I'm blinking involuntarily at its brightness. 00:26:23 shouldnt that be set in the browser? 00:26:33 Not if Google's stylesheet sets the colour. 00:26:43 ah, you allow the pages to set their own colours? 00:26:46 AH well, the lesson ends for today. It is time for food and relaxation! 00:29:04 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:09 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 00:32:21 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:36:34 -!- certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:36:40 mr_uggla [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #scheme 00:36:51 certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 00:44:20 Judofyr_ [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 00:44:52 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 00:47:45 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE126.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:15 -!- mr_uggla_ [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:22 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE126.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 00:48:29 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 00:49:17 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A09BE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:50:34 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-17-216.nss.udel.edu] has quit [] 00:50:42 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:50:44 -!- kryptiskt [n=no@80.251.192.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:53:29 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:54:32 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 01:01:25 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:01:46 masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-76.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 01:03:23 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@adsl-75-10-153-12.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:04:39 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:05:08 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 01:07:36 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 01:08:34 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE126.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 01:09:30 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:13:22 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:13:39 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:19:39 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:20:44 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 01:26:48 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-76.nss.udel.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:30:22 rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 01:37:15 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 01:37:20 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:38:38 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:39:19 benny [n=benny@i577A08C1.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 01:45:29 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-324264.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:46:41 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@g225035109.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:50:48 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:51:08 i am happy to announce that quack is returning to debian :) 01:55:20 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:55:35 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:56:03 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:59:44 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:04:45 -!- jld_ is now known as jld 02:07:46 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 02:11:58 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 02:17:43 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:48 quack left debian? 02:28:26 ventonegro [n=alex@c9519739.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 02:28:50 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-324264.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:29:56 Arelius, yeah quack-el was pulled in january of 2008. but i submitted the patches to get it added to emacs-goodies-el and it should be in the next release 02:30:19 cool 02:30:28 Ohh well though, don't use debian 02:30:37 but if I had to use linux, it'd be the one. 02:30:47 i don't consider it a "had" choice :) 02:31:21 Hehe 02:32:32 why was it pulled out? 02:34:58 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:35:00 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:35:35 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 02:35:52 it was orphaned i guess\ 02:36:04 and it was several versions behind the upstream 02:36:11 aha 02:36:17 mejja, what was that about limbs, fingers, and nails the other day? 02:37:21 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:37:43 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:37:56 Read the section about nails. I think it's a pretty cool feature. 02:40:11 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:40:20 http://gmplib.org/manual/Low_002dlevel-Functions.html#index-Nails-664 02:40:49 Any particular reason, beyond its being cool, that you pointed it out? 02:41:33 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:41:58 of course not! what broken scheme would use high tag bits? 02:42:58 Gosh, I dunno... 02:44:31 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:45:47 mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has joined #scheme 02:47:28 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:50:02 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.232.39] has joined #scheme 02:53:10 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:53:27 Now, if a certain broken Scheme used zero as the high tag for nonnegative fixnums, rather than whatever random value it currently uses... 02:54:30 But no, I'm afraid I don't have time (1) to reintroduce the v8 tagging scheme into v7/v9, or (2) to substitute GMP for MIT Scheme's current bignum library. 02:55:17 Riastradh, is Orbit capable of generating MIPS code? 02:55:23 Yes. 02:55:47 ...for Ultrix. 02:55:52 That would make a useful bridge to x86 operation. 02:56:58 There are a number of MIPS simulators, including even one for the JVM which is used to encapsulate unsafe code: it provides a MIPS userland only. 02:57:59 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:58:18 People use this to run arbitrary C/C++ code on the JVM, by compiling it to MIPS with gcc. 02:58:28 I see. 02:58:50 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:08:51 Also, what's your view about names like FOO/BAR? In your style guide you discuss them only for constants, presumably excluding function constants. 03:09:14 I sometimes use a slash to separate a context from the name of an operation. 03:09:59 For example? 03:10:16 Is T's MIPS port something you are interested in working on? I don't have time for it, but I'd be happy to answer questions about how it works or my understanding of it. 03:10:50 Example: 03:11:39 I guess the right first question is: where is it? I downloaded T 3.0 but didn't see anything MIPSish (not that I really understand MIPS) 03:12:43 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:14:54 masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-75.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 03:16:49 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:20:03 *foof* is shocked at just how huge the case-sensitivity debate on the R6RS list has become 03:20:32 I was shocked last week. Trees tend to grow exponentially. I don't want to think about it. Please take that discussion to discuss@r6rs.org! 03:20:50 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:22:53 it's good to know they're debating important things 03:27:10 It was symbolic, like the altarwise/tablewise controversy in the Anglican Church 03:27:39 Scheme has had two development processes, and both of them are now discredited. 03:28:49 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-239-63.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:36:29 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@141.157.231.169] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:43:22 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-75.nss.udel.edu] has quit [] 03:46:54 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 03:48:47 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:49:34 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 03:55:25 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 03:56:53 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:01:41 masquerade [n=robert@host108-118.student.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 04:05:58 altarwise/tablewise? 04:06:29 Whether to place the communion table parallel to the long axis of the church or across it, 04:06:54 indicating whether it was in the nature of a sacrificial altar, or a mere object for holding the wine and bread off the floor. 04:07:15 huh 04:07:18 IOW, whether the Church of England was a separated part of the Roman church, or a Protestant denomination. 04:07:58 whether they were eating the body of Jesus or whether they were play-acting. 04:08:13 I can't imagine how that argument could've gotten heated! 04:08:19 Not just the Catholics - the Orthodox churches also all place the table across the long axis. 04:09:28 Right, but they weren't at issue. 04:11:35 # Didn't find X, or a directory has "'" in its name. 04:11:48 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 04:12:02 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 04:12:35 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:12:38 # this properly handles a significant subset of valid input. 04:13:36 But the Catholics split off from the Orthodox just as the Protestants split off from the Catholics. 04:13:45 Quite. 04:14:02 foof - the Orthodox are not so split off from the Catholic church as the Protestant denominations are. 04:14:05 Which is a sillier subject -- that of sectarian schismatics or that of abject failures of quotation in Unix programs? 04:14:08 Although, the C and the O mutually recognize things like the validity of holy orders. 04:14:24 Both are seriously OT, but not inherently silly. 04:14:31 -!- jyaan [n=jyaan@adsl-76-226-101-61.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 04:15:10 ayrnieu: Backwards! There were 5 ancient Christian Patriarchs. One of them (in Rome) split off to form the Roman Catholic church (and make HUGE sweeping changes in theology). The other 4 stayed Orthodox. 04:15:21 the accidental programmers are not so split off from the topic as the schismatics are. 04:17:05 foof - that the Orthodox deny the Pope's lineage back to Peter is probably a good part of the reason that they haven't admitted his authority and come back into the church, but the point is that they are closer to the Catholic church than Protestants are. A Catholic can receive communion in an Orthodox church, for instance. 04:17:37 Catholics invented: indulgences (and to sell them better the whole concept of purgatory), original sin (to sell indulgences to people who thought they weren't sinners) and the immaculate conception (to remove any question of Christ having original sin). 04:17:51 I'm not sure whether I feel more disgusted by the concept of quotation in shell scripts or by the concept of cannibalizing one's messiah. 04:17:57 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:18:02 Riastradh - I for one insist on having my programs quietly work on subtypes of common data like 'directory' and 'pathname'. 04:19:02 An Orthodox can't receive communion in a Catholic church. 04:19:02 Riastradh - a number of Jesus's followers were put off, too. But it's hardly a bloody cannibalism, and nobody gets cannibalized. 04:19:51 foof - the immaculate conception refers to *Mary*'s birth, not Christ's. It's obviously absurd to say that God was born with some distance from Himself. 04:20:19 ayrnieu: Do you understand what original sin refers to? 04:20:31 I believe it refers to the eunuch origin of Unix. 04:20:37 foof - let's suppose that I just described it. 04:21:13 -!- mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:21:24 mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has joined #scheme 04:21:34 Oh wait, nevermind :) 04:21:43 -!- ventonegro [n=alex@c9519739.virtua.com.br] has quit [] 04:22:15 brain fart 04:22:41 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-128-205.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:22:55 Nonetheless they invented immaculate conception out of thin air with no theological basis. They were catering to all the pagan religions with female deities. 04:24:02 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:24:24 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:24:25 *Daemmerung* pages back in the channel to figure out how the hell this got here 04:24:32 What's a `theological basis'? Is that like a vector space basis? 04:24:45 Not to bash the Catholic church - they do a lot of good work nowadays - but in the middle ages they were very blatantly about growing money and power. 04:24:46 How do theological bases compare to, say, Hamel bases? Are they guaranteed to exist by Zorn's lemma? 04:25:33 Daemmerung: a perhaps ill-chosen analogy of mine 04:25:40 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-121-158.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:26:03 No, jcowan. The analogy, alas, rang too true, apparently! 04:26:18 foof - supposing that that's all they were, this was certainly a lasting boon for humanity, the fracturing of power between the Church and civil powers, in contrast to the sweeping unitary powers of the rest of the world or in the modern world. 04:26:40 And I quote 19:22 it's good to know they're debating important things 04:26:40 04:27:01 foof: O and C priests can and have concelebrated, so although there is no general intercommunion, it does happen from time to time, esp. in the case of non-Latin Catholic churches. 04:28:13 ayrnieu: Sure, but it's not a good basis for a religion. Orthodox theology is Scheme, Catholic theology is C++. 04:28:33 yow, *those* are fighting words :-) 04:28:45 :) 04:30:15 *jcowan* calls the Schemers to dig up foof's bones. 04:31:05 Could someone please invoke Godwin's law, or otherwise suggest a way to cannibalize the theology or something? 04:31:53 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:32:24 I'm still trying to calculate the finite spanning set of these theologies. 04:32:40 Godwin's Law is descriptive, not something can be invoked. What it permits you to do is to correctly observe that the thread has terminated properly. 04:33:08 Not that the Orthodox churches were devoid of power-mongering during the same time period, but to a lesser extent (they didn't even have missionaries) and they didn't sabotage the basis of their claim to authority by inventing bizarre new dogma along the lines of "you can sin all you want if you pay us money." 04:33:21 Me, I prefer working with orthonormal bases, so for me, finite spanning sets are useful only for approximation. 04:33:54 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 04:34:03 Run away, kilimanjaro! It's not safe here! 04:34:25 Has the boogeyman escaped?! 04:35:03 No, worse: jcowan made an analogy, and that analogy escaped! 04:35:34 Yes. What we need to know is, was the Virgin Mary case-sensitive or not? 04:35:53 `Virgin'? Surely you mean `virgin'. 04:36:26 That's exactly the issue. 04:37:01 "Christians all agree that Christians all agree on the major points of their religion and disagree only on the minor points. Which points are major and which minor, unfortunately, is one of the points of disagreement." 04:37:35 See, there the analogy falls apart. Schemers don't even agree that they agree on any major points. 04:37:52 Just so, but they do agree on the minor points. 04:39:34 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 04:41:09 So, um. 04:41:17 Riastradh: You're wrong. 04:41:23 Aieeee! 04:41:46 on case sensitivity, here is the obvious answer: case-insensitivity is useful and traditional, but case-sensitivity is sometimes necessary, especially in environments that emphasize interoperability with case-sensitive languages. A variable with an implementation-defined default should control the reader's behavior. 04:41:51 -!- masquerade [n=robert@host108-118.student.udel.edu] has quit [] 04:41:54 I'd better change the subject before not only `So, um.' but `Aieeee!', too, is declared wrong. 04:42:18 jcowan, just curious: have you written any code to statically compute the methods? 04:42:25 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 04:42:26 Or is this all theory at the moment? 04:42:26 there, all of the people allegedly 'debating' this topic should go home and discuss the Marian doctrines of the Catholic church. 04:43:11 -!- khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 04:43:14 Do you mean, have I written code to generate the code that statically computes the methods? No. 04:43:25 So yes, it's all theory. 04:43:38 I suggest that you start writing code; that will help to formulate the question. 04:43:39 But when I have an obstacle in my theory, I find it very difficult to proceed to implementation. 04:43:44 ayrnieu: You're wrong too, of course. 04:44:27 eli - please, pose your fallacious challenge. 04:44:46 eli, by the way, is `So, um.' what you were saying is wrong, or was it something theological that I said earlier? 04:45:29 *eli* jokes reflexively, in case someone missed 04:45:51 (Just checking.) 04:46:57 -!- mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:47:08 mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has joined #scheme 04:47:26 ayrnieu: pfft, that would suggest standardising on an extensible reader, which would open a whole can of worms of useful and general techniques 04:48:13 i dont think case-sensitity bothered the virgin mary 04:48:20 aspect - if the list can produce R6RS but can't decide on this, this is their failing. Write up an SRFI. 04:48:31 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:48:48 To be fair, an extensible reader is hard to engineer usefully and composably. 04:50:04 so's a module system, or a method of synctactic abstraction 04:50:17 As we have seen. 04:50:50 Those are easier to design usefully and composably, and more worth the trouble. 04:51:44 `Composable' is a little strong for the method of syntactic abstraction, but at least macros are relatively well isolated from one another; they can coexist peacefully. 04:54:46 I think it's kind of unfortunate that the implicit reader used by the Scheme processor is tied so closely to the read function. 04:55:30 *eli* +1s jcowan 04:56:17 Well, what other purpose does the READ procedure serve? 04:57:06 Being able to cusomize your reader makes that a good question. 04:57:42 seangrove [n=seangrov@ip98-164-227-122.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:58:08 Well, supposedly to read data in the form of S-expressions; S-exps aren't necessarily Scheme code. 04:58:19 Of what use are S-expressions if not as Scheme code? 04:58:47 Sometimes they represent R6RS ratification votes. 04:58:53 Indeed 04:58:55 Ha! 04:58:58 or rather, voter registrations 04:59:31 Quoth Alan Bawden (approximately), apparently even seasoned Scheme professionals are not all capable of sending R5RS-valid S-expressions in email. 04:59:34 You might as well say "Of what use is any data that is not code?" 04:59:55 I think the point was that not all email channels are capable of accurately transmitting a single S-expression. 05:00:04 (There's a reason why the steering committee votes weren't in the same format...) 05:01:17 My baby sister the non-programming schoolteacher just had something called a "UIL high school computer science team" handed to her. Apparently the UIL is some sort of Texas Java programming thing. And her kids know no Java. I pointed her to the Felleisen/Friedman Java book - figured they might learn something from it. 05:01:17 jcowan - or: why restrain for the sake of the poor soul who may have to implement his own parser for... s-expressions? 05:01:34 *jcowan* scratches his head. 05:01:58 READ is not a terribly useful interface for reading input from arbitrary sources. 05:02:04 Why encumber every Scheme runtime with a parser for S-expressions either? Perhaps a parser for YAML would be more useful to the application. 05:02:53 Who knows what extensions might lurk in the reader's lexical syntax? Say, #. for read-time evaluation. 05:04:14 I don't believe #. does that, at least not the SRFI version. 05:04:29 What SRFI version? 05:06:02 There's #. in a SRFI?? 05:06:17 Maybe you're thinking of #,? 05:06:32 Most likely. 05:07:09 I was, yes.s 05:07:13 srfi-10 05:07:38 Anyway, who knows whether there's a #,(EVAL ...) reader constructor for SRFI 10 lurking in the local Scheme system? 05:08:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:08:09 What happens if I receive ten billion opening round delimiters? 05:08:13 Though why it is a comma and not a dot is not clear to me. 05:08:28 (The comma is intended to set it apart from Common Lisp's #. for read-time evaluation.) 05:08:34 The same thing that happens if you "receive" HCN. 05:08:44 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:08:51 Is not #, load-time evaluation in CL, though? 05:10:07 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:38 05:10:47 (No. #, is nothing in CL.) 05:11:51 Ah, I see; it was flushed between CLtL and ISO CL 05:12:42 It was flushed between cltl and cltl2. 05:13:23 Whatever. 05:13:31 But I wasn't just making that up, at least. 05:13:34 That's between CLtL and ANSI CL. 05:14:13 Yes, sorry, have ISO on the brain atm, not suprisingly. 05:15:53 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:16:24 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 05:27:05 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176194210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:22 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:35:57 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 05:55:53 meanburrito920_ [n=John@99.165.18.151] has joined #scheme 05:58:26 higepon973 [n=taro@218-223-22-146.bitcat.net] has joined #scheme 06:00:13 -!- higepon973 is now known as hige 06:00:15 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:10:03 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:18:48 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:26:04 mmc [n=mima@gw1.teleca.fi] has joined #scheme 06:30:57 Daemmerung: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/density.png 06:31:04 count the memes, meme-meister 06:31:38 *Daemmerung* is ded now 06:34:26 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:54 masquerade_ [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-28.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 06:39:08 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:40:44 -!- masquerade_ [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-28.nss.udel.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:46:50 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 06:49:21 Daemmerung: clarke's 3rd had its first birthday yesterday, btw 06:52:14 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@99.165.18.151] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 06:56:59 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@ip98-164-227-122.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:08:32 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:14:49 npe [i=npe@naist-wavenet125-199.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:34:05 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:35:46 bhrgunatha [n=chatzill@118-170-39-69.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 07:35:53 -!- bhrgunatha [n=chatzill@118-170-39-69.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:24 maodun [n=stopgo@c-24-130-16-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:45:17 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-165-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 07:54:29 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-165-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:01:06 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 08:02:26 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 08:02:42 mike [n=m@dslb-088-064-153-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 08:03:10 -!- mike is now known as Guest40425 08:08:19 masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-28.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 08:12:05 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:13 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 08:40:54 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:43:45 Who's this Guillermo J. Rozas? 08:45:22 Oh, actually I've read one of his papers. 08:48:31 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@60.Red-81-39-160.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:50:52 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:49 -!- Guest40425 [n=m@dslb-088-064-153-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:55:40 Awww, man, my SRFI is going to throw SOOOO much oil onto the case-sensitivity flame :( 08:55:53 :S 08:58:36 Jimi__Hendrix [n=Jimi@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 09:00:35 -!- Jimi_Hendrix [n=Jimi@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:01:47 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:03:17 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:09:48 foof: what's you're srfi? 09:10:26 A process-pipeline-in-sexp notation. 09:12:09 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-28.nss.udel.edu] has quit [] 09:12:52 hrm 09:16:30 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:21:27 -!- hige [n=taro@218-223-22-146.bitcat.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:24:22 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 09:25:27 saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 09:28:37 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 09:33:10 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:23 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 09:35:07 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:41:40 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 09:41:43 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:43:23 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 09:45:12 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 09:46:46 kandinski [i=kandinsk@rowrcolo.net] has joined #scheme 09:47:51 hi, I am going through PLAI and want to check that I have understood something: 09:48:36 {with {x 5} {+ x {with {y 3} x}}} is interpreted to {with {x 5} {+ 5 {with {y 3} 5}}} 09:48:43 does this mean the scope is dynamic? 09:49:00 (from page 35 of the online pdf of PLAI) 09:49:08 Sorry for offtopic (I cannot answer your question). Is that PLAI: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Books/ProgLangs/2007-04-26/? 09:49:41 yes, the Krisnamurti book 09:50:11 also sorry for offtopic if this is not a prover venue for the question 09:51:42 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 09:57:57 kandinski: I believe, that's the right channel, but usually it's rather few people here at this time. 09:59:41 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:59:58 kandinski: understanding your code fragments by the obvious translation to Scheme, I don't thin it means anything about whether the binding is lexical or dynamical. It's too little to go on. 10:01:04 hkBst: yes, the brackets are there so the students can tell between the concrete syntax that is to be interpreted from the scheme code that will interpret it 10:01:40 kandinski: you'd need a function with a free variable in different contexts to determine the difference 10:02:26 but I thought in lexical binding the inner x (the one in {with {y 3} x}) would either be undefined or free, not so? 10:03:06 kandinski: no 10:03:13 this far into the book the language only has Arithmetic Expressions: no functions yet 10:03:24 we are just introducing variables 10:03:29 (sorry, identifiers) 10:03:39 hkBst: thanks 10:04:17 kandinski: well, in that fragment x is free, but it's value in the larger expression would be 5 10:05:25 because the binding is dynamic! if it were lexical, it would be unbound (assuming "with" introduces a new scope) 10:05:30 -!- jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:05:57 I mean, that's what I am trying to make sure I have understood correctly before going on 10:06:31 why would it stop searching enclosing enclosing environments? 10:06:59 ri-ight 10:07:10 *kandinski* goes back to study 10:07:14 thanks 10:07:23 np 10:10:27 and of course, functions come next 10:11:08 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 10:11:49 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:25:48 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:30:35 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:34:10 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:37:02 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 10:38:06 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 10:51:30 -!- maodun [n=stopgo@c-24-130-16-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:54:28 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:21:53 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:21:59 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 11:26:39 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 11:31:53 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 11:33:31 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-67.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:37:13 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:38:17 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 11:40:03 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:46:23 dlt____ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:49:55 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:56:47 dlt_ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:59:23 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:02:06 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:1f09:979:0:0:0:14] has joined #scheme 12:02:39 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:03:19 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 12:04:12 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:51 I had a quick look at PLAI: seems funny. 12:07:45 Consider: Exercise 20.4.2 Java does not support TCO [tail call opt.]. Investigate why not. 12:14:36 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:23:14 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:23:15 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 12:26:12 reified [n=vega@z194.124-44-44.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:31:05 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:31:12 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:51 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:55:36 -!- reified [n=vega@z194.124-44-44.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:01:36 dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 13:02:03 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:06:40 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:06:40 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:06:40 -!- certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:06:40 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:06:40 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:06:40 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:06:40 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:06:59 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has joined #scheme 13:27:28 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 13:29:44 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:44:17 david000 [n=david@lan.proporta.com] has joined #scheme 13:47:10 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:48:46 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 13:50:01 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:51:44 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:51:44 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:52:05 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:54:28 mngbd: Yeah, really funny. Btw, I heard, one guy was preparing a patch, enabling TCO in jvm. 13:56:02 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:56:54 dlt____ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 14:01:53 Mr-Cat: Maybe no bad idea. The gcc allready does some kind of TCO... 14:02:13 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:30 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:02:46 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 14:05:58 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-165-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 14:06:56 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.229] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:07:20 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:07:53 xwl [n=user@114.245.141.202] has joined #scheme 14:08:32 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:10:57 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["foobar"] 14:14:39 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:41 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 14:19:28 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:20:09 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 14:20:11 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:20:26 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:21:54 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:22:04 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:28:46 -!- xwl [n=user@114.245.141.202] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:32:43 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:35 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:39:55 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:42:58 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 14:44:33 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 14:44:59 ejs [n=eugen@243-117-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:40 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:47:12 eli: ping 14:54:04 -!- Judofyr_ [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:57:18 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:58:19 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 15:03:12 foof, Guillermo J. Rozas was probably the second most substantial contributor to MIT Scheme for its first fifteen years of existence. 15:03:56 Does anyone else misses Smerdyakov as i am ? 15:04:19 If by `am' you mean `do', then...no, I don't think so. 15:04:57 ok 15:08:44 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:44 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:44 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:44 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:44 -!- certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:44 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:44 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:44 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:08:46 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:09:00 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:09:00 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 15:09:00 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 15:09:00 certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 15:09:00 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 15:09:00 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:09:00 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 15:09:00 rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has joined #scheme 15:10:23 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 15:15:59 -!- david000 [n=david@lan.proporta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:24:24 huyslogic [n=Huy@192.206.112.168] has joined #scheme 15:25:10 Is there any site or text where I may read on creating a library for scheme? 15:25:30 compiling something in C, and then using it in scheme as a procedure and such 15:26:20 That depends on what Scheme implementation you're using. 15:27:08 plt-scheme, i've been digging through the site trying to find literature for it :/ 15:27:21 Search for `PLT FFI'. 15:29:10 Thank you Riastradh (: 15:32:49 dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 15:33:59 masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-124.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 15:34:01 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:34:40 huyslogic: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/foreign/index.html 15:35:42 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:35:42 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:35:42 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:35:42 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:35:42 -!- certainty|work 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rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has joined #scheme 15:47:30 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 15:47:37 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:48:04 masquerade_ [n=robert@host108-118.student.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 15:49:11 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:49:11 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:49:11 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:49:11 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:49:11 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:49:20 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-225-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 15:49:48 -!- mike is now known as Guest60547 15:50:09 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:13 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-124.nss.udel.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:55:20 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 15:56:54 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:59:07 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-165-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:59:29 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:59:45 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 16:00:33 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 16:03:12 rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has joined #scheme 16:03:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@243-117-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:03:38 This is a sweet optimisation technique, found via LtU: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~rtate/publications/eqsat/ I wonder how hard it would be to implement in scheme. 16:03:49 Would appreciate some more help. I've worked on my code a lot since yesterday, but I'm stuck. Please someone see http://paste.lisp.org/display/76412 . Thanks. 16:05:01 tomelam, you cannot with SYNTAX-RULES concatenate symbols. The only symbols you may work with are those that you write literally and those that appear in the input to your macro. 16:05:11 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 16:05:30 So either you must give up SYNTAX-RULES, and defer to something less portable such as SYNTAX-CASE, or accept (DEF-ELT-MAKER @DIV DIV) in the place of (DEF-ELT-MAKER DIV). 16:06:11 Also, note that the lexical syntax for symbols excludes those that begin with at-signs. If it works in your Scheme system, it is only by accident, and there are situations where it won't work. 16:06:40 korvin [n=korvin@host-108-145-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #scheme 16:07:03 Riastradh, you must have saved me a year of wondering. Thanks. Let me go away and study this. Any more hints before I go? And thanks again... 16:07:49 Advice: Choose a different prefix (say, : or < or perhaps a circumfix <...>) and accept (DEF-ELT-MAKER
DIV). 16:09:31 Riastradh, cool. I think I can make my MAP create the macro invocations with the <...> wrapped around the tag names. 16:09:51 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:50 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 16:15:20 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:15:42 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 16:16:27 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 16:16:49 -!- huyslogic [n=Huy@192.206.112.168] has left #scheme 16:17:35 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.232.39] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:42 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:19:20 klutometis: I had no idea. I would have baked a cake! 16:19:25 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:20:07 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:21:46 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:27:11 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:32:42 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@195.159.114.206] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:32:44 Riastradh, what change(s) do I need to make to def-elt-maker (http://paste.lisp.org/display/76412) so that the macro it makes can accept more than one argument? Also, there is something strange about the pattern (_ tagx). (def-elt-maker fry fire) creates a macro fire that works like this: (fire 1) => (fry 1). How does the 1 get into the output? 16:34:43 It looks like the tagx macro being defined is not the same as the tagx in the pattern. 16:35:08 I'm confused. Can you explain to me what you want to happen, forgetting the macro definitions that you have right now? 16:38:07 Riastradh, I want to be able to have a bunch of HTML element creating thingies (functions or macros) but I don't want to define each one from scratch. Each such thingy should be evaluable as: (:li "id='listele1'" '()). 16:39:01 So why not write (define (element-constructor name) (lambda (attributes . children) (make-element name attributes children))), and then write (define :li (element-constructor "li"))? 16:39:20 Oops, no. Each such thingy should be evaluable as (li "id='listele1'" '()) 16:39:57 -!- xwl [n=user@114.245.141.202] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:04 ... 16:42:04 and should be invoked or called as (:li "id='listele 1'" '()) 16:42:06 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:43:19 You can adjust what I wrote to your tastes, but is there anything fundamentally wrong with it that it doesn't solve your problem? 16:44:17 I don't want to write (li "id='listele1'" '()) from the beginning because I want to nest such forms and evaluate them from the outside in rather than the usual direction of inside out. 16:44:30 Huh? 16:44:32 I don't understand. 16:44:43 tomelam, looks like you are designing a language AND implementing it at thee same time 16:44:50 tomelam, is that roughly accurate? 16:44:59 I am not sure I understand what you wrote. Maybe I should go away and think about it for awhile. 16:45:15 I am now thoroughly confused about what problem you are trying to solve. 16:45:56 Cheshire, hi. No, not exactly. I have a clear picture of what I want to do and even have it working except for the part that makes my task easier by allowing me to just pass a list of HTML tag names to MAP... 16:46:28 If you have a clear picture of what you want to do, can you please draw it so that others can see it? 16:46:35 I already have the output of the unwritten macro (function?) for DIV and TABLE. 16:46:53 Currently I see no reason for worrying about macros. 16:46:58 tomelam, ah that's good then 16:47:34 Riastradh, just to make my typing less. I have a macro that creates the form I need, but I need more macros like that one. 16:47:57 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 16:48:21 No, I mean more generall. You believe that macros are the solution to a problem that you have. What is the problem that you're trying to solve with macros? What is the context of this whole discussion? What is it that you want to express once you have defined these macros or procedures? 16:48:29 `Generally', even. 16:48:33 I could create all the macros by hand, but I don't want to repeat myself. 16:49:52 (Again, I currently don't see any reason why you're even thinking about macros.) 16:50:50 Riastradh, I see no way of writing (foo tag) and not have tag evaluated, unless I use a macro. 16:51:07 Am I misguided? 16:51:36 I could write (foo 'tag), but I just want to see how far I can take this reduction in typing... 16:53:02 iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@e179064142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 16:53:17 I have to leave in a moment, but I hope I'm making it clear that I'm not interested in seeing a dumbed down, isolated, condensed edition of a fragment of what you're trying to do here; I want you to explain what your more general problem is. For example, maybe you're writing an HTML generation library so that you can construct HTML from within Scheme programs, and you want
  • Foo!
to look like (DIV (UL 16:53:38 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-239-63.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:53:47 As it is, what you are asking sounds about as sensible as `How do I use a chainsaw to dice this tomato for my recipe?' 16:53:59 Very carefully. 16:54:04 use a hammer of course :) 16:54:18 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.204.133.189] has joined #scheme 16:54:23 Riastradh, yes, it's an HTML generation library. 16:54:54 btw 16:55:01 A simple one. I know there are plenty of those already and I don't believe in reinventing the wheel, but this one is a bit different. 16:55:09 tomelam, you can't beat the XML-mixed-mode from CL 16:55:13 Well, then please explain what makes it different. 16:55:34 It will include *components* like widgets, not just HTML and text elements. 16:55:47 And please justify the use of macros, or consider an alternative solution that does not involve macros, because that will be easier to think about. 16:55:51 Anyway, I must leave now. 16:56:17 Riastradh, okay, thanks. Will you be back? 16:56:23 Soon, I mean? 16:56:58 he already is gone.. who knows when .. or if, he will return 16:57:00 Cheshire, thanks for the hint. I'll keep it in mind. 16:58:17 Cheshire, you got me thinking yesterday and I solved most of my own problem, going baby step by baby step. But I ended up coming back to macros because I don't want to have to quote my tag names. Doesn't that make sense? 16:58:19 i also dont understand what you want to with macros either, you simply take a list and transform it 16:58:27 tomelam, it's really easier to rewrite yet another HTML generation library than to simply exercise the extension facilities of existing, mature and well-known HTML libraries? 16:58:41 tomelam, there's probably 3 things to say about that 16:59:24 tomelam, I forgot (1) and (3), but the most important was: you mayb just use macros because you want to and not because they are significantly better 16:59:56 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:17 tomelam, If you can define it in a way without macros -- do that. Since that is working you can write a trivial macro that just quotes the single thing you wanted quoted 17:00:37 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 17:01:30 gnomon, actually i thought this was simple. can you suggest one that is compatible or somewhat compatible to the one I have here? i'll annotate my previous paste (http://paste.lisp.org/display/76412) but please give me a couple of minutes. 17:01:52 Cheshire, please check out the annotation that's coming up... 17:02:07 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:02:12 tomelam, ... say when it is there 17:02:21 sure 17:02:44 tomelam, I cannot suggest anything offhand, no, nor do I have time to research it right now. 17:03:26 gnomon, okay, i know they're out there. i've already looked a bit at them... 17:08:35 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:08:48 bweaver [n=user@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:12:27 ejs [n=eugen@243-117-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76412#1 17:14:07 tomelam: regarless of what the purpose is, syntax-rules wont work, you need syntax-case 17:14:45 there it is. btw, i misspoke when i said this is an HTML generation tool. it is, i would say, a DOM branch generation tool. the annotation explains. 17:15:05 like i said, regardless of that :) 17:15:42 You don't need syntax-case to implement this 17:16:26 leppie, i think i will just use (def-elt-maker table :table). then syntax-rules will work, no? i couldn't find syntax-case in js-scheme. 17:16:30 no, but I sense he is trying to achieve some functionality at expand time, and syntax-rules wont work for that 17:16:37 tomelam, that's wise 17:17:20 no, I dont think js-scheme with have syntax-case :) 17:17:28 s/with/will/ 17:17:46 does it have define-macro or something similar? 17:17:50 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:18:12 it has define-syntax and syntax-rules. 17:18:27 i think nothing else. i'll check now... 17:18:44 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 17:18:48 that's that scheme that compiles into javascript or it has some javascript interpreter, right? 17:19:34 tomelam, SYNTAX-RULES is the right thing to use for this 17:19:47 leppie, http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2006/05/scheme-implementation-in-javascript.html and (the running interpreter/compiler) http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/jsscheme/ . 17:19:49 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/jxzuq 17:20:09 tomelam, this HTML generating thing -look- horrible though 17:20:17 the jit only works in ie 17:20:24 here is a cosmetic suggestion: use
instead of :div 17:20:37 Cheshire, okay. 17:20:39 but I do wonder what : is supposed to be 17:22:27 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:22:32 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 17:22:56 tomelam, look here: http://paste.lisp.org/system-server/show/lisppaste/web-server 17:23:05 for example look at the code for: (defmethod handle-request-response ((handler main-handler) method request) 17:23:25 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:23:35 you can't quite do this in Scheme, in CL they use some reader macro hack to make it work 17:23:45 Cheshire, I have a function that gets called like this: (define h1 (html-function "h1")) that creates a function which in turn creates an element (in this case an H1 element) and appends it _to_the_current_insertion_point_. This last point is important because it makes the whole thing work. 17:24:05 but the general idea is good, the XML definitions don't create the presented XML but they build up XML objects 17:24:14 it's much more malleable this way 17:24:36 Cheshire, i'm looking. 17:25:13 this means you have a separate procedure that generates a string presentation of the XML tree 17:25:16 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:25:34 in PLT scheme, you can hack the reader, too 17:25:37 and in a nice way 17:25:56 RnRS won't help -- but who needs RnRS? 17:25:58 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:26:02 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 17:27:13 tomelam: it seems it supports syntax-quasiquote which should allow it to work 17:27:37 leppie, you're right. forgot that one. 17:27:56 tomelam did you see it ? 17:28:35 Cheshire, i saw it, but i don't see how handle-request-response relates to what i want to do. 17:28:43 tomelam, it's just an example 17:28:50 do you see that it is generating XML? 17:29:37 xml or html? 17:30:01 it does't matter 17:30:06 it's the same thing 17:30:07 ok. 17:30:47 yeah, i see handle-request-response with the signature (right word?) ((handler recent-handler) method request) does output xml. 17:31:10 but it uses these ( ...) 17:31:12 and so do other methods. 17:31:14 this type of thing 17:31:23 yes. 17:31:58 so anyway, I mean other than the syntax (these <> brackets) each of these can be a function 17:32:09 there is no need that ,
whatever, be a macro 17:32:18 but is this similar to what i want to do? i have to create bits and pieces at a time like an interpreter ... first an outer DIV, than an inner one... 17:32:22 but it only works if you take this object oriented approach 17:32:49 tomelam, Yes . both are generating X/HTML 17:33:06 tomelam: i cant figure it out :( 17:33:08 no, i'm generating DOM nodes directly. 17:33:09 tomelam, if you put an IF or a LOOP somewhere in the middle that is fine 17:33:15 tomelam, k whatever 17:33:54 Cheshire, you might be right, i just am not sure. 17:34:17 leppie, what can't you figure out? 17:34:47 how to use the implementation syntax-quasiquote 17:35:18 leppie, hmm. is it broken? 17:35:24 i dunno 17:35:45 not sure how to use it, tried a bit, but i'm ot even getting near anything 17:36:33 s/ot/not/ 17:37:17 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 17:38:16 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 17:39:33 tomelam: it's not the same as http://code.google.com/p/js-scheme/ 17:41:35 leppie, i don't think i need it. maybe my def-elt-maker just needs a tweak (http://paste.lisp.org/display/76412#1). if i can write (def-elt-maker div
) or (def-elt-maker
div) and get a macro that i can insert in the middle of a page description and have my INSERT-DOM-BRANCHES create that page, that will be enough. no, it will be great! 17:41:56 leppie, wow, that must be new. i don't think it's the same. 17:41:58 aep [n=aep@libqxt/developer/aep] has joined #scheme 17:42:10 hi, whats was the scheme to C compiler called again? 17:42:16 it looks more limited though 17:43:12 http://www-sop.inria.fr/mimosa/scheme2js/ 17:43:42 aaco_ [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 17:43:47 ahh thats the one I was thinking of I think 17:43:48 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:43:58 leppie, the js-scheme on bluishcoder.co.nz runs in the browser. it's very cool. 17:44:03 aep, gambit i think 17:44:24 all of the others run in the browser too 17:44:26 chicken I think 17:44:33 yeah chicken! thanks 17:45:26 it would be great if some R5RS macro expert would help me fix my def-elt-maker. i'm going to put up my code when it's in reasonable shape and make it libre software. 17:45:30 the last one i mentioned seems to at least have a slightly larger userbase than 1 :) 17:46:00 leppie, they do? 17:46:12 run in the browser? 17:46:35 they compile to javascript or run interpreted in javascript 17:46:51 dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 17:46:55 scheme2js is a compiler 17:47:24 and it seems to have something like define-macro 17:47:47 which ones run in the browser? 17:48:05 all of them 17:48:13 with a repl? 17:48:28 the last one, I dont think so 17:48:51 you mentioned the one on google, also scheme2js, and what else? 17:49:39 the one you are using :p 17:49:50 ;-) 17:50:47 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:50:49 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:51:55 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:54:28 leppie, i just looked at the one in google code. no macros. but i'll look at it later to see something about how they've implemented it. the one Chris Double's worked on was supposedly written in 2 weeks by Alex Yakovlev. i can't trace him. but the code is awesome (even though i can't figure it out). ;-) 17:54:51 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:53 yeah, it looks good, very impressive for 2 weeks :p 17:55:14 i'd better eat dinner. it's very late here. might be back later. 17:55:35 thanks for your help, Cheshire and leppie. 17:55:52 And Riastadh. 17:56:01 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:56:11 Er, Riastradh. 17:56:18 np :) 17:56:27 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 17:57:06 -!- masquerade_ [n=robert@host108-118.student.udel.edu] has quit [] 17:59:12 hm, how do i call a lambda expression from itself? 17:59:30 aep, what 17:59:41 err. recursion 18:00:28 i guess my real question is, how do i implement recursion in scheme? 18:00:44 implement in terms of which primitives? 18:01:25 well i thought i'd make a lambda expression, and then call it from inside itself 18:01:36 using LAMBDA only, it is possible 18:01:57 here is a starting point: 18:02:07 well define apparantly doesnt work 18:02:22 "Error: call of non-procedure: 8" 18:02:35 ((LAMBDA (U) (U U)) (LAMBDA (THIS) (DISPLAY 'LOL) (THIS))) 18:02:37 aep, see http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-31/srfi-31.html 18:03:12 hm 18:03:14 thanks both 18:03:24 oops mine is wring 18:03:27 should be (THIS THIS) 18:04:21 jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-201.hotspot.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:04:24 i dont get it anyway 18:04:49 try running the corrected version 18:05:37 Error: unbound variable: THIS 18:06:03 masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-180.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 18:06:35 rudybot: eval (define (u) (display "1") (u)) 18:06:36 proq: your sandbox is ready 18:06:40 rudybot: eval (u) 18:06:44 proq: error: with-limit: out of time 18:07:25 i dont understand whats wrong with this though http://rafb.net/p/HPOOvO31.html 18:07:28 barney [n=bernhard@p549A0BCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:07:30 it says ggt isnt defined 18:07:43 aep, the spacing is wrong 18:07:52 (ggt b (modulo a b)) 18:07:52 ) 18:07:52 ) 18:07:52 ) 18:07:52 ) 18:07:53 should be: 18:07:57 (ggt b (modulo a b)))))) 18:08:00 space has a meaaning? 18:08:29 no, isnt working either 18:12:22 -!- mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:14 -!- aaco_ is now known as aaco 18:15:07 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:15:41 rudybot: eval (define ggt (lambda (a b) (if (= b 0) a (ggt b (modulo a b))))) 18:16:35 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:00 -!- ejs [n=eugen@243-117-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:22 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:19:27 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:21:55 ew 18:21:57 thanks proq 18:21:58 ejs [n=eugen@243-117-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:19 didnt know lambda doesnt expect () in the body 18:22:42 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:23:45 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 18:26:21 I wonder why that killed rudybot :( 18:26:46 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-180.nss.udel.edu] has quit [] 18:28:33 rudybot: are you dead? 18:28:35 kryptiskt_: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 18:29:19 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 18:29:39 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #scheme 18:31:09 *jcowan* unvanishes, possibly to appear in person later this evening. 18:31:43 ok, whats the common way to make "for" loops. ie call a block with a local variable iterating in a range 18:32:17 i hear you use let for it, but i dont quite get it 18:32:32 let apparantly only defines a local variable, so how can i recurse using a different one? 18:32:45 There are two flavors of let, ordinary let and named-let. 18:32:59 named-let looks like (let some-name ((var value) (var value) ...) 18:33:21 you can call the function some-name within the let body, and if you do, you are back at the top of the let, with the args passed to some-name being the new values of the variables. 18:33:33 hm neat 18:33:38 *aep* will try 18:33:39 thanks 18:34:01 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:34:44 But we are also big on internal iteration, where you use map and/or for-each to apply a function to each element of a list; you just have to write the function. 18:34:53 rudybot: did I kill you? 18:34:55 proq: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 18:36:33 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:15 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 18:37:33 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:37:56 aep, there's also the DO loop construct, but that's generally considered to be pretty ugly. 18:40:08 i can never remember the syntax :| 18:40:27 named let all the way! 18:40:32 Amen. 18:40:35 Or foof-loop! 18:41:12 foof-loop is both loopy and foofy. How could you go wrong? 18:41:44 Yes, the problem with named-loop is that it's a glorified goto/gosub; you have to look at the whole loop to see just where it iterates, and indeed it could do so in several places, including calling its "next step" recursively. 18:41:47 melgray [n=melgray@c-71-197-146-242.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:59 True, true: it works best in small doses. 18:45:27 yay, i think i got it 18:45:36 I think that Shivers's intro to his loop construct is an excellent explanation of why one should use loop constructs. 18:45:50 DO is both pretty ugly and a little big for the job 18:47:12 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:13 *gnomon* is reminded to check in on Shivers's TRE 18:48:14 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-201.hotspot.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:48:16 (loop (for x in l) 18:48:17 (letrec 18:48:17 (when (p? x)) 18:48:17 ((loop ( (rest result) 18:48:17 (bind (y )) 18:48:17 (if (null? rest) 18:48:19 (when (q? )) 18:48:21 (reverse result) 18:48:23 (bind (z )) 18:48:25 (let ((x (car rest))) 18:48:27 (save )) 18:48:29 (if (p? x) 18:48:31 (let ((y )) 18:48:35 (if (q? ) 18:48:37 (let ((z )) 18:48:39 (loop (cdr rest) 18:48:41 (cons 18:48:43 result))) 18:48:45 (loop (cdr rest) result))) 18:48:47 (loop (cdr rest) result))))))) 18:48:49 (loop l ())) 18:48:51 sorry, that got messy 18:49:51 jah [n=jah@203.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 18:50:30 Note the four calls to "loop" on the left side 18:50:40 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:50:49 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:51:14 um, i'm supposed to implement a function "iterative". i have no idea how to do that without a loop oO 18:51:30 its a sum function, so it needs to sum up each calculation from 1 to 4000 18:51:41 That means you make sure that all recursive calls are tail calls, therefore not really recursive at all. 18:51:43 i understand how recursion works, now 18:51:54 tail calls? 18:51:56 *aep* googles 18:51:58 Recursion: see recursion. 18:52:13 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 18:52:16 Tail recursion: first see recursion; then, if you aren't sick of it already, see tail recursion. 18:53:05 ^self [n=fn@116.58.56.241] has joined #scheme 18:53:31 this makes no sense 18:54:12 jcowan: you mean -- recursion: see recursion, and maybe think some more. 18:54:33 tail recursion: maybe think some more, and finally see tail recursion. 18:55:32 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:30 tail recursion: forget where you came from and see recursion 18:57:53 dlt____ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 18:58:25 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-324414.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:58:53 why forget where you came from? nah, that's reset as in continuation shift/reset 19:00:03 err, whats the function to do a division? 19:00:40 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 19:02:33 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE4DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:02 / 19:03:39 aye, could have thought of it 19:04:07 what does that mean? Error: call of non-procedure: 1 19:04:21 its defined to a lambda 19:04:21 All Scheme names are totally intuitive; that's why we use "car" to return the first element of a list: "c" for "first", "a" for "element", "r" for "of a list". 19:04:44 aep: you are probably writing (1 2 3) instead of '(1 2 3) 19:04:51 Fare: true 19:05:03 oO 19:05:05 (1 2 3) as Scheme code would be an invocation of the procedure 1 on arguments 2 and 3, but 1 is no procedure at all. 19:05:27 no i mean the thing it calls is a procedure 19:05:28 wait... 19:05:33 wingo-tp [n=wingo@237.Red-83-32-65.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:05:58 http://rafb.net/p/WJj8KB58.html 19:06:27 its complaining about line 7 19:06:47 althouhgh i clearly defined it to a lambda 19:06:55 ( (+ 1 ...) ) 19:07:00 you're calling a number, man 19:07:07 huh? 19:07:11 oh 19:07:19 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:07:22 god damit 19:07:26 how do you guys avoid this? 19:07:33 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:07:38 leave got out of it and wash your mouth 19:07:38 learn hard :) 19:07:47 Scheme doesn't use ()s for grouping, only for function calling. 19:08:04 yeah i know, its just hard to see right away 19:08:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@243-117-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #scheme 19:08:07 Because all functions are prefix and all calls are wrapped in ()s, we don't need them. 19:08:34 maybe you have an editor with better syntax highlighting 19:08:35 we need extraneous () to not be there 19:08:40 all i see is a gazillion of () 19:08:59 aep: use PLT, and replace them with {} 19:09:03 i'm already trying indent 19:09:04 you'll feel better 19:09:04 aep, take it easy. Once you get into the habit, the parentheses will disappear. 19:09:11 hm 19:09:14 ok 19:09:16 "oh, {}'s -- I love them" 19:09:18 *aep* hacks more stuff 19:10:36 When Grandpa was learning Lisp, everything was packed in tight, no indentations at allses. 19:12:00 Indentation would occupy valuable space on that punch card. 19:12:16 Space that, today, can host advertisements. 19:12:36 I didn't do punch-card Lisp, no, but nearly. 19:12:58 incubot: it turns out that confidence and competence and inversely related, ironically 19:12:59 I actually learned Lisp by reading the Dartmouth Lisp manual 347 times until everything made sense, including a-list-dummies. 19:13:01 `Easier to write' doesn't matter much to me, especially if it is inversely proportional to ease of reading. 19:13:46 "The king to the king's bishop's seventh square, giving mate." Is that easier or harder to read than algebraic chess notation, assuming it's in its proper context? 19:15:17 That's a weighty assumption: context is ponderous and ephemeral. 19:15:44 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:16:38 Like hailstones. 19:16:48 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:17:25 jcowan: I have a copy of Waite's "Implementing Software for Non-Numeric Applications" (c) 1973 that has LISP (note caps) in a style that would make you misty-eyed with nostalgia. 19:17:42 rmns [n=ramunas@78-61-90-37.static.zebra.lt] has joined #scheme 19:17:52 -!- rmns [n=ramunas@78-61-90-37.static.zebra.lt] has left #scheme 19:17:56 Nostalgia? For all caps? More like neuralgia. Nostalgia is for bittersweet things. Like INTERCAL. 19:19:04 I think the truth is "easy to read" = "what you already know" 19:19:07 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:08 Nostalgia for all caps, funky indentation, dynamic scoping, and M-exprs. 19:19:33 I'll admit to a sneaking nostalgia for dynamic scoping, though I wouldn't want to write code in such a language any more. 19:19:56 The Basic I first learned on had dynamic scoping, at least sometimes (one-liner functions were lexically scoped) 19:21:00 jcowan, I think you'd know better than I: what's going on with elisp culture these days? I heard rumours about experimental threading support being tacked onto someone's experimental copy of the tree, and someone else mentioned thinking about a JIT engine. Do you think there's some hope of elisp slowly crawling toward modernity? 19:21:17 jcowan, that's once a day for a year, except for 18 days of vacations. You had that many vacations? 19:21:35 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has left #scheme 19:22:39 It was a metaphorical number; but on some days, I did indeed read it more than once a day. Also it was summer and I was in high school. 19:23:16 gnomon: Though it is the sole survivor of dynamic scoping, I really know nothing at all about elisp, or emacs for that matter. 19:23:21 *jcowan* is an "ex" troglodyte 19:23:35 ex, man! !man ex 19:23:47 Ah, 'tis true, 'tis true. 19:24:06 Some people read that as "ex-troglodyte", but I repudiate that interpretation. 19:24:18 For when your termcap is truly boogered. Which was all too often, it seems. 19:24:24 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:24:41 No, if it's *truly* boogered, you need "ed", aka "editor for divinities". 19:24:43 jcowan, ah! 19:24:45 If just because /etc didn't get mounted if for no other reason. 19:24:46 man, ed! 19:25:35 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@237.Red-83-32-65.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 19:26:00 You ed man now, dawg. 19:27:24 masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-25.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 19:27:39 I do prefer ed to ex; I'm willing to trade off a little less standardosity ("ed is the standard editor") for a little more usability. 19:29:18 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:29:30 -!- mmc [n=mima@gw1.teleca.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:31:55 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:32:30 I am getting all verklempt. "If you have used ed you will find that, in addition to having all of the ed commands available, ex has a number of additional features useful on CRT terminals." 19:33:03 Quite so. 19:33:27 But it also has other useful enhancements. 19:34:13 I am browsing the Solaris man page for same right now. All misty-eyed. 19:34:49 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:02 Why, it gives you help when you make mistakes! O brave new world. 19:35:20 At one time I tried to fork GNU ed to make an ex-without-vi, but nex and Heritage Toolkit ex work very well, much better than vim -E. 19:35:43 Is GNU ed anything like GNU cat? 19:36:02 Hah! 19:36:23 Daemmerung, I was just diving through the GNU cat code last week. Funny that you mention that. 19:36:54 Then there's GNU hello. Especially hello -m. 19:37:08 That's dangerous diving. I trust you had full SCBA, as well as some kind of ground strap to prevent methane explosions. 19:37:29 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:47 fsp [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has joined #scheme 19:37:48 Hmm, -m has been removed from the hello 2.x series 19:38:03 Historically it dumped $MAIL to the stdout, in conformance with Zawinski's Law 19:38:13 Has it? What uncharacteristic restraint. 19:38:26 However, the mailbox search path in hello 1.3 had a bug if the first choice didn't work. 19:39:34 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:40:31 -!- jah [n=jah@203.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:41:07 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:07 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:42:12 <^self> heh, i typed "hello" and i didn't have gnu hello installed; i got the output of some dylan code i was playing around with several months ago. output: http://pastie.org/406308 code: http://pastie.org/406309 19:42:18 -!- korvin [n=korvin@host-108-145-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit ["((lambda (x) (display (cadr x))) exit-reason)"] 19:43:10 ^self, you have random executables lying around in your $PATH? That sounds, um, suboptimal. 19:44:18 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 19:44:29 As long as it's "Hello, world" and not "Hello, master boot record." 19:44:47 *Daemmerung* had never heard of GNU `hello' 19:45:27 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:48 "It allows nonprogrammers to use a classic computer science tool which would otherwise be unavailable to them." Hee. 19:47:52 dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 19:50:18 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:51:40 -!- iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@e179064142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #scheme 19:55:00 *jcowan* gets all nostalgic over the output of hello -g 'Foo, you are nothing but a charlatan!' 19:58:20 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-54-226.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 19:58:22 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:35 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:59:19 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:01:25 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:02:04 <^self> sure, but all the random ones are in /xfs/dylan/bin. all eight of them 20:03:21 hrm... as if it's so hard to make your computer print hello 20:04:12 proq: but it's some bizarre meta-hello cum internationalization 20:04:28 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 20:05:14 like the WTC, it also has a paedogogical purpose, apparently 20:07:54 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-324414.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:08:16 why is that? : 20:08:18 > (append (list 1) 2) 20:08:18 (1 . 2) 20:08:27 where is that dot comming from= 20:09:20 r5rs append 20:09:25 read the docs of append 20:09:46 the only thing on google i find doesnt explain it :( 20:09:58 http://www.csm.astate.edu/~rossa/pl/append.html 20:09:59 no dots 20:10:50 leppie said "read the docs," not "read a random page on the web that contains the term `append'" 20:11:19 And where is specbot when we need him, her, or it? 20:12:16 i think it is speechless :) 20:12:27 specbot: wakey wakey 20:12:31 jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:03 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:13:08 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:14:17 rudybot: surely we can count on you? 20:14:17 Daemmerung: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 20:14:24 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-175-25.nss.udel.edu] has quit [] 20:14:26 rudybot: doc append 20:14:27 Daemmerung: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/pairs.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._append)) 20:14:38 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 20:14:38 Daemmerung: ; Value: (1 . 2) 20:14:45 rudybot: eval (append (list 1) 2) 20:14:45 Daemmerung: ; Value: (1 . 2) 20:15:09 *aep* is very confused 20:15:41 also confusing that cdr can return a list or an element depending if the list has just one element 20:15:55 so you need to check for the list size before applying anything 20:16:05 cdr returns whatever happens to occupy the cdr of a pair. Nothing more, nothing less. 20:16:24 so it can be a pair, or an element, right 20:16:40 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 20:17:16 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 20:17:16 Daemmerung: ; Value: (1 . 2) 20:17:21 rudybot: eval (cons 1 (list 2)) 20:17:22 Daemmerung: ; Value: (1 2) 20:17:25 See the difference? 20:17:55 rudybot: eval (cons 1 (cons 2 '())) 20:17:55 Daemmerung: ; Value: (1 2) 20:18:59 *aep* is more confused then before 20:19:35 Which text are you using to learn Scheme? 20:19:46 none 20:19:50 Then get one. 20:20:07 well i have a week to pass an examn about scheme 20:20:12 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.252.161] has joined #scheme 20:20:35 Then it had better be a short one. 20:20:45 aep: there's a text "learn scheme in fixnum days" you can google for 20:20:53 examn != understanding. 20:21:51 maybe with multiple guess 20:21:53 Which Scheme are you using? 20:22:26 thanks 20:22:35 5rsomething 20:22:36 aep: you mean, you had the good fortune to have a class on scheme and you didn't study it? 20:22:37 chicken 20:23:24 we're supposed to repeat specific implementations during the examn 20:23:29 not learning 20:23:34 learning is not university 20:23:46 but i'd like to understand them anyway 20:24:05 specificaly becouse i cant remember 10 pages text without knowing what it actually does 20:25:01 *Daemmerung* is waiting for some wiseass to recommend SICP to the guy who has an exam next week 20:27:44 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:28:25 apparantly all the other students pass examns without knowing shit just fine 20:30:56 I don't know anything about the contents of your exam, or the study materials for your course. I do know that several online texts are referenced in the #topic of this channel. The best fit for your needs from those would be TSPL. Alternately, proq recommended http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html. I usually recommend /The Little Schemer/ (a real book, printed on paper, that you would have to purchase or 20:30:56 borrow from a library) to people having trouble with car/cdr/cons etc. 20:31:17 *bitweiler* slaps aep for not studing scheme in class, "bad dog!" 20:31:46 bitweiler is Rottweiler? 20:31:47 what am i supposed to study? a bunch of "here's how you do a list. end of lesson" 20:31:52 now that's a great book 20:32:04 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32:21 *bitweiler* growls at aep, hrmm... 20:32:43 "Good dog, Carl" 20:32:51 *bitweiler* sits 20:32:54 i need to understand more details (i'm a C/C++ engineer for 8 years) to understand anything. 20:33:02 but i cant get that much details in one week 20:33:04 *sigh* 20:33:10 http://www.gooddogcarl.com/ <--- love this book 20:34:24 nice 20:35:18 hey Daemmerung, I just got seasoned && reasoned schemer in today :) 20:35:45 *bitweiler* hurries off to corner to read 20:35:58 hmmm 20:36:00 nice books 20:36:30 yeah, I must learn to crawl before I walk 20:37:12 puchacz_ [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:37:42 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:38:09 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:39:22 -!- ^self [n=fn@116.58.56.241] has quit ["zzz"] 20:40:43 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:42:10 http://uk.gizmodo.com/quake_3_24_screens.jpg 20:42:16 Goody. I haven't read /Reasoned/ yet myself. Bought it recently, intending it for nerdy vacation reading, but am no longer planning to take a laptop with me when I leave. Hopefully I'll get to it someday. I haven't written any Prolog in a long, long time. 20:43:12 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0BCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:12 I think the Schemer series are best read with a pen and piece of paper 20:44:23 No need for a laptop 20:45:50 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:46:25 That it true. But I think I'd go nuts not being able to experiment and play with it. I don't know... maybe the isolation would do me good. 20:56:13 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:38 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:18 morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 21:07:12 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 21:10:54 proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 21:12:41 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:30 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:36 the schemer series you say 21:17:20 yeah 21:18:20 wingo-tp [n=wingo@227.Red-79-156-145.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:17 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:27 -!- proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:25:56 -!- fsp [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:08 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 21:27:56 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 21:33:17 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:37:34 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 21:42:25 -!- morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:46 morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 21:48:53 morphir__ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 21:54:02 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:56:01 morphir___ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 21:56:47 -!- morphir___ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59:09 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:25 -!- morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:02 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE4DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:11:39 -!- Jimi__Hendrix [n=Jimi@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:12:29 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:13:48 -!- morphir__ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-54-226.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:36 -!- Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 22:18:48 -!- puchacz_ [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:21:24 http://www.xsharp.org/samples/ 22:22:10 Particularly the section 'Functional Programming with X#' is really nice 22:22:48 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 22:24:29 yikes thats ugly, now I will never be able to go to sleep! 22:27:45 yick! 22:27:57 ahahaha 22:28:46 tomelam, `it would be great if some R5RS macro expert would help me fix my def-elt-maker'. No. It would be great if you forgot all about macros and began all over again by explaining the real problem you are trying to solve. 22:33:26 >> seems to be an important element of X#'s syntax. that is amusing. 22:38:06 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 22:39:01 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:39:51 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:41:45 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:42:45 http://www.cs.utah.edu/~draperg/cartoons/scheme_car_cdr.png 22:43:08 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:44:18 it's no swap dragon. 22:47:12 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:48:03 wingo-tp: now that > is free of being a tag delimiter, they can go hog-wild. 22:48:32 Thank God Almighty, > is free at last. 22:48:57 "Under Pressure" aka "The Dragon In The Sea" aka "21st Century Sub [sucky title]" is the canonical international submarine *book*. 22:49:03 s/book/novel 22:49:13 sorry, ww 22:52:54 *zbigniew* goes off to create a Scheme which implements SRFI-49 and a new exception handling mechanism supported directly in the reader 22:53:04 ( and ) will henceforth be known as 'pitch' and 'catch' 22:54:22 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:05:42 Ooooh, dirty. 23:08:14 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:00 A real-world example, where o is the exception object, might be: 23:11:03 (-> o) 23:13:30 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has left #scheme 23:13:40 Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:10 annodomini [n=lambda@pat133.border2-cfw.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 23:15:19 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:15:48 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:19:54 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 23:20:58 -!- Guest60547 [n=m@dslb-088-066-225-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:21:51 -!- maxote [n=maxote@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:25:21 zbigniew: had we been in #java in a parallel universe, that might have been "catchable" and "throwable" 23:28:23 As dirty as top and bottom quarks. 23:30:40 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 23:31:36 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:39:05 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@227.Red-79-156-145.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:43:11 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.229] has joined #scheme 23:44:45 *arcfide* yawns. 23:47:23 -!- bweaver [n=user@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:50:37 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-67.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:52:23 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme