00:00:34 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-181-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:37 hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-250-238-89.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:38 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #scheme 00:05:08 what is a good (visual) debugger? 00:05:37 that is, I'd like to know what's going on, when I go through L.i.S.P. 2nd ed 00:05:51 a whiteboard? 00:07:53 none handy ;) 00:10:00 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@142.Red-81-39-163.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:11:13 myrkraverk: PLT has a pretty resonable debugger. 00:11:35 *arcfide* laughs. 00:11:38 Eherm. 00:11:39 Sorry. 00:11:43 ok, googling 00:12:15 Arelius: Has PLT managed to get a good debugger in lately? That is, more than DrScheme's Stepping and Arrow Tracing? 00:12:58 arcfide: not really, but I find that to be rather resonable in comparison to what I'm used to around here. 00:13:13 I can't stand the arrow tracing though 00:13:16 myrkraverk: I do not know what you mean by visual debugger, but it is generally considered that MIT, (Petite) Chez, and I believe Scheme48 have some of the more general debuggers in SchemeLand, from my experience. 00:13:55 arcfide: how does the chez debugger work? 00:14:07 SCM has some kind of debugger I think, but I have not heard much about it in a while and I do not think it's much good comparatively. 00:14:25 Arelius: it's really an inspector plus a tracing facility. 00:14:36 noob [n=user@dslb-088-064-133-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:37 arcfide, basically, something that allows me to see what is going on, while I step through LiSP code -- am currently looking at inferiour lisp stuff for emacs 00:14:57 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-250-191-104.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:04 I have MIT scheme at the other end of the house -- which I can give a try 00:15:10 myrkraverk: I don't know many Schemes that have a steper, but for something like tracing, I use Chez's TRACE-* and TRACE procedure. 00:15:14 arcfide: I think the PLT stepping approach is more simular to the traditional debugger in other languages. 00:15:31 whats the scheme pendant to finalizers/destructors/... - or if there is none - why? 00:15:47 The PLT debugger is decent. It breaks down on large programs, but it's okay for inspecting small to midsize ones. 00:16:04 some years ago, I found the emacs lisp debugger quite useful (though I don't recall excactly how it worked) 00:16:04 noob, some implementations support something like 00:16:10 Arelius: Basically, you have the ability to trace procedures and other forms, which will let you see what gets passed where and when, and then you have a general purpose continuation based inspector. 00:16:13 (set-finalizer! ... 00:16:24 Arelius: thanks, will search the docu 00:16:24 arcfide: that's nice 00:16:28 I wouldn't choose PLT because of it, but if I wanted a "visual" debugger it'd be my first choice, just b/c there's little competition currently in that space. 00:16:38 Arelius: The inspector is either interactive or procedural. 00:16:44 noob: I only know that it exists in chicken though 00:16:54 noob: and gets run on object collection. 00:17:06 Riastradh: curly braces are _mutable_ pairs. 00:17:09 rudybot: init r5rs 00:17:10 *offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready 00:17:15 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 00:17:16 *offby1: ; Value: {1 . 2} 00:17:24 rudybot: eval (set-car! (cons 1 2) 'fred) 00:17:38 rudybot: eval (let ((c (cons 1 2))) (set-car! c 'fred) c) 00:17:39 *offby1: ; Value: {fred . 2} 00:17:43 Arelius: Usually, you save a continuation through the use of ERROR or BREAK and then you can enter the inspector through the BREAK interface or by using DEBUG's interface. 00:17:44 rudybot: init scheme 00:17:46 rudybot: eval (let ((c (cons 1 2))) (set-car! c 'fred) c) 00:17:47 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 00:17:48 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: set-car! in module: 'program 00:17:55 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 00:17:56 *offby1: ; Value: (1 . 2) 00:18:15 Then, you go through and inspect continuations and see what is doing what where. You can evaluate arbitrary code at any given continuation, too. 00:18:26 noob: The standard way to do that sort of thing is afaik is simular to how (call-with-* functions 00:19:06 myrkraverk: Do you need stepping? Tracing can be effective if you just want to see the progression of the program execution. 00:19:34 myrkraverk: If you have MIT Scheme, there's lot's of debugging stuff there, including tracing, IIRC. 00:20:08 arcfide, ok, I'll switch 'puters (and then be afk, technically) and give it a try 00:20:11 Does the DrScheme Arrow Tracing and Stepping work in all languages? 00:21:05 myrkraverk: MIT's interface can be a little non-intuitive at first, so, hang with it. ;-) You might also be interested in running Edwin, which has a "nicer" interface to the debugger. 00:23:58 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:24:28 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 00:25:37 Arelius: it seems gauche doesn't have finalizers / only in the c-wrapper ffi module 00:26:00 noob, sure. what exactally are you trying to do? 00:26:37 Arelius: i often find the need for doing something on closure destruction 00:26:58 hrm 00:27:25 Arelius: for example - "free" an opengl texture 00:27:30 sure 00:27:38 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:27:52 Arelius: or print some stats ... 00:28:20 Arelius: or munmap a file 00:28:47 I think the first is the best example 00:28:49 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:28:59 as it's most difficult to change from using closures. 00:29:49 Arelius: in the end all my ideas end up implementing another gc in scheme :-( 00:30:45 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.234.212.136] has joined #scheme 00:31:09 the thing is very finite (gl textures, files) resources probably shouldn't be released on gc anyways though. 00:32:03 Arelius: well, but at least the gc should tell me that i could free them 00:32:42 maodun [n=stopgo@c-76-102-149-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:46 I was implying that gc is too late... 00:33:04 hmm 00:34:14 okay taking the gl example: i could have a cache of active textures ("fixed" size) 00:34:41 noob: to quote Tim Sweeney 00:34:48 "In general, I would not advocate garbage collection of OS resources or any other thing requiring explicit cleanup. For example, I think that Java/C# finalizers are a misguided idea, because they have observable, nondeterministic consequences. That is exactly the sort of feature a high-level, secure language should avoid. The bizarre finalization state diagrams for those languages should be enough to indicate that something is wrong here!" 00:35:13 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1277#comment-14252 00:36:11 interesting 00:36:23 but if you really want it, it's likely the set-finalizer in the FFI package will do it 00:40:21 i just wonder where to set the line (<-probably bad english) - what's the distinction between memory resources / a open file / a opengl texture / an mmaped file ... - so why gc for memory but not for the rest? maybe the important part above is _explicit cleanup_ 00:44:12 Well I'm probally a bad one to ask 00:44:30 cause I don't personally believe that GC is acceptable for all memory resources either 00:44:51 hehe 00:46:38 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:19 Arelius: the link you provided is really a interesting read 00:54:37 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:56:28 noob: np 00:59:19 kryptiskt_ [n=no@cust-IP-11.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 00:59:59 -!- pjb3_ [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:00:28 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 01:02:44 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:13:39 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC63D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:17 -!- Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 01:24:05 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:25:55 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 01:27:14 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:27:42 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 01:29:58 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-149-218.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:05 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFCF7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:31:09 rudybot: eval (inexact->exact (* 2 (angle -1))) 01:31:10 mejja: your sandbox is ready 01:31:10 mejja: ; Value: 884279719003555/140737488355328 01:32:55 rudybot: eval (gcd (* (expt 2 63) (inexact->exact (* 2 (angle -1)))) (expt 2 63)) 01:32:56 mejja: ; Value: 65536 01:34:52 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-223.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 01:35:11 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 01:40:25 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 01:41:24 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:46:52 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:50:45 -!- XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:50:50 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 01:52:20 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:57:22 Arelius: ah gauche provides weak pointers (vector) - that really might help me (http://practical-scheme.net/gauche/man/gauche-refe_53.html) 01:57:36 Awesome 02:03:21 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 02:03:26 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-181-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:06:24 pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:06:30 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:25:22 -!- noob [n=user@dslb-088-064-133-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:30:23 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 02:31:35 -!- mns [n=user@c-76-119-251-7.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:41:27 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:41:58 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 02:50:13 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:54:39 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-132-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:57:16 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-181-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:01:14 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.234.212.136] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:04:12 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.234.212.136] has joined #scheme 03:09:18 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A054D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:10 arcfide: DrScheme's *stepper* is not a debugger. 03:15:56 arcfide: DrScheme's arrows (or whatever you refer to as "arrow tracing") is a syntactic tool that shows bindings and tail positions -- again, absolutely no relation to what's commonly known as "a debugger". 03:16:25 arcfide: But -- DrScheme had a *debugger* added about 3.5 years ago. 03:16:54 arcfide: And, of course, it had a "trace" since the beginning of time. 03:18:36 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [] 03:19:31 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:26:39 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.234.212.136] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:27:34 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.18.44] has joined #scheme 03:41:50 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:42:04 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:48:43 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:49:19 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 03:51:31 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:00:22 -!- dfeuer [n=David@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:00:25 -!- dfeuer_ is now known as dfeuer 04:00:49 dfeuer_ [n=David@pool-173-66-107-133.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:01:50 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 04:07:11 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:09:03 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 04:09:11 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:31:18 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:32:31 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:33:02 eli: Where is the documentation for this debugger? 04:33:55 Do you mean the "Debug" button in DrScheme? 04:36:27 arcfide: Yes. 04:39:30 So the debugger is part of DrScheme? 04:41:26 arcfide: Yes. 04:42:29 eli: Can you do anything besides stepping through, breaking, pausing, going to random stack frames, and viewing local variables in a stack frame? Oh, yes, it appears you can change the return value of an expression. 04:42:43 Can you evaluate code inside a stack frame? 04:43:05 I assume you can edit the variables? 04:43:45 I don't know much about it, since I hardly use debuggers (in any language or context) -- but all of these things are pretty easy to get with it. 04:44:05 Sorry, get with it? 04:44:10 Including "evaluate code insude a stack frame", which is a pretty questionable feature. 04:44:21 Hah. 04:44:22 Pretty easy to implement if it's not in. 04:44:31 *arcfide* chuckles. 04:44:44 I don't know what was funny in what I said. 04:45:00 Oh, that you thought evaluating code at a given frame was a questionable feature. :-) 04:45:01 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:45:06 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 04:45:28 arcfide: You mean that you don't agree with it being questionable? 04:46:05 Well, I'm not quite sure what you mean by it being questionable, but if by that you mean that you do not see it as a particularly useful feature and think that the time spent on implementing it is of questionable value, then yes, I disagree. 04:46:34 arcfide: I think he means that the time it would take to implement it is of questionable amount. 04:46:38 -!- tripwyre_ [n=sathya@117.193.169.133] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:47:00 arcfide: think about this code: (let ([write (lambda xs (send-eli-my-passwords) (apply write xs))]) (error "foo!")) 04:47:25 ...where the error is deep enough that you won't see my hack. 04:48:13 ... :-? 04:48:21 I'm sorry, you lost me there, entirely. 04:48:37 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:48:54 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 04:48:59 You'd see my error, and immediately try to use the wonderful eval-in-stack-context feature, no? Like using `write' to look at values, right? 04:49:22 Although, now that I look at it, I remember seeing this debugger before, and I remember being less than impressed when I actually tried to use it. Although, it does seem to have improved a little bit since then. 04:49:53 Yes it did. 04:49:57 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 04:50:07 *eli* is still waiting to hear about that useful misfeature. 04:50:44 eli: No, I would use my inspector to inspect values, I wouldn't use that feature. 04:51:01 So, what would you use that feature for? 04:51:28 eli: to examine the behavior of procedures in a given context with a given set of values which are available in that continuation/frame. 04:52:29 I still fail to see where you are going with this. 04:52:32 So what you want is basically just access to the values, not to evaluate stuff in that context. 04:52:47 brb 04:57:52 eli: it is a lot easier to evaluate procedures when all the values are right there, in a nice context, rather than trying to recreate the environment on your own, after you obtain all the values. So much so, that I might not really do the latter. 04:59:46 I want to be able to introspect continuations and all other manner of objects; to evaluate arbitrary code in a given continuation or context; and see the trail of execution to any given point in my program. 05:00:17 Assuming of course that tracing is provided separate from the debugger. 05:00:59 It seems that DrScheme has become a little more useful in this regard, which I applaud, but the manual, at least, doesn't promise much more than rudimentary basics. 05:01:12 And, of course, that ties me to using DrScheme, which I wouldn't do. 05:05:57 arcfide: re evaluation -- I'm talking about just that -- providing some illusion that you write expressions that are executed in a debugging context. It's a bad idea to give you such a lexical environment in a way that is implicit enough that you just enter code. 05:06:19 Why? 05:06:27 Because there may be a rootkit in my code? 05:07:06 Because you want to be explicit about grabbing values from the stack, vs values in your *actual* *lexical* environment. Because lexical scope is a good thing even when debugging. 05:07:08 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 05:07:51 I want to be in the actual lexical environment of the stack frame in question, so grabbing values from that stack frame is just more tedious. 05:07:53 re ties to drscheme: the debugger was based on mztake -- a project from Brown that is unrelated to drscheme (or to any gui). There was no visible need for that in plt. 05:08:09 I have nothing more to say about that now. 05:09:14 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:10:25 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176199225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:14:15 npe [i=npe@163.221.125.0] has joined #scheme 05:27:37 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176211009.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:13 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC63D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:29:55 hugo_ [n=hugo@61.245.51.205.er.eaccess.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:34:54 -!- notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-174-188.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:35:36 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:35:56 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 05:37:01 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:40:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:51:53 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-58.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:56:26 -!- mhoran [n=mhoran@vps.matthoran.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:56:44 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:00:09 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 06:03:48 akitada [n=akitada@unaffiliated/akitada] has joined #scheme 06:03:57 Hi 06:05:02 Heya 06:07:31 A friend of mine suggested me to try SICP and EOPL to get some enlightenment 06:07:52 Not a bad idea 06:08:11 (hope this is not off topic) 06:08:14 I highly recommend SICP, not very familiar with EOPL myself.. 06:08:25 but I've heard good things 06:12:17 I've started digging about both book and trying to found out which is the first one I should get 06:12:32 but couldn't get any recommendations for that. 06:12:44 -!- hugo_ [n=hugo@61.245.51.205.er.eaccess.ne.jp] has left #scheme 06:14:52 according to scheme wiki, SICP is a intro text but EOPL advanced one. 06:14:54 http://schemers.org/Documents/#all-texts 06:15:47 Does it mean I'd better start off with former rather than latter? 06:16:39 No experience scheme but have some with common lisp. 06:20:04 Arelius: I'm sure SICP is at least more "popular" than EoPL 06:20:57 SICP was designed as an introduction to programming languages in general 06:21:06 with scheme being a key part of that. 06:22:28 but I think it's also resonabally lng 06:22:28 long 06:23:02 But if you're a descent programmer that understands lisp concepts I don't think order is of much importance. 06:23:15 So, I think it in part depends on what you're experience with CL is 06:23:22 and what you're trying to get out of the book 06:23:30 but either way SICP is a great start 06:24:39 Long is good if it's a decent book. more things to learn. 06:26:03 -!- dfeuer_ [n=David@pool-173-66-107-133.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:27:49 Well, I'll start off by SICP, then. Ultimately, I'll read both anyway 06:29:05 Thanks, Arelius for good advice. 06:29:22 I hope it ends up being such =P 06:32:55 Arelius: sure it does, because if I get stuck, I'll get back to here and ask some ;) 06:33:03 Awesome! 06:33:23 Good luck! 06:33:35 Thanks, I need it. 06:34:47 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:35:14 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 06:38:01 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:15 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:42:57 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:50:14 -!- akitada [n=akitada@unaffiliated/akitada] has quit [] 06:52:00 akitada [n=akitada@unaffiliated/akitada] has joined #scheme 06:52:33 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:59:12 -!- maodun 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[n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:06 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176199225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Client exiting"] 15:11:21 tjafk [n=timj@e176199225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 15:11:46 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:11:53 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:13:33 choas [n=lars@p5B0DD567.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:14:46 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 15:18:22 Inhuman [n=somethin@S0106001d7e47087f.su.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 15:19:03 -!- Inhuman [n=somethin@S0106001d7e47087f.su.shawcable.net] has left #scheme 15:21:15 Inhuman [n=somethin@S0106001d7e47087f.su.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 15:22:11 if (car the_list == 0) return true. How do I do this in Scheme? 15:22:45 (= 0 (car the_list)) 15:22:48 sans if 15:22:49 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:59 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:05 or (if (= 0 (car (the_list)) #t #f) 15:23:30 but if you want a return like in C or Java, that's a bit different 15:23:52 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 15:24:12 my parens are false 15:24:18 or (if (= 0 (car the_list)) #t #f) 15:24:23 that's better 15:25:02 rudybot, eval (let ((the_list '(0 foo bar))) (= 0 (car the_list))) 15:25:04 Fulax: your sandbox is ready 15:25:04 Fulax: ; Value: #t 15:26:48 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:26:49 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 15:26:55 I don't want to actually return anything like in C or Java. I just need to determine whether or not the head of the list is a 0. 15:29:38 so you just need to replace the #t and #f with the code you want if the head of the list is the number zero 15:29:58 (zero? (car the_list)) should work also 15:30:15 rudybot, init r5rs 15:30:16 Fulax: your r5rs sandbox is ready 15:30:22 rudybot, eval zero? 15:30:23 Fulax: ; Value: # 15:30:57 I am such a rookie with Scheme. 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18:46:07 -!- offby1 is now known as incognito` 18:46:12 *incognito`* whistles innocently 18:46:24 Who ees dees "off buy won" uff hoom you spik? 18:47:18 *rudybot* wags his tail and licks incognito`'s hand 18:47:23 shh, down boy 18:57:18 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-223.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:56 -!- andrei [n=user@c-98-223-64-197.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 19:01:40 jsw-lap [n=jsw@cpe-75-187-46-126.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:03:55 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 19:05:55 *Daemmerung* vows to bring justice to offby1, whereever he might be 19:06:31 -!- incognito` is now known as offby1 19:06:35 Or even bring him to justice. Um. Something like that. Me speak the good English now. 19:06:35 I'd like some of that! 19:06:40 Can I get kraut on it? 19:06:44 A-HA!! 19:06:48 what? 19:06:54 J'accuse!! 19:07:02 .oO("Jack Hughes"?) 19:07:18 a notable villain. 19:07:31 also known as "Hughes the Tearer" 19:07:51 John the Illegal Copier of CDs 19:08:15 Jacques, the Parker in Spaces Reserved for the Bearers of Handicapped Placards 19:08:41 ooh that devil 19:08:46 The Caller Of Directory Information For A Number He Could Have Easily Looked Up Himself 19:08:55 *wingo-tp* rummages around for a pitchfork 19:08:57 A notorious fiend. 19:08:59 shocking! 19:09:01 *offby1* brings out his torches 19:09:06 lemme at 'em boss! 19:09:09 which way'd he go? 19:09:10 *jsw-lap* gets a mirror 19:09:26 *Daemmerung* wields a Mini-Maglite with, yes, fresh batteries 19:09:27 jsw-lap: looking for your ... opinions? 19:09:31 left. Texas left. which is your down. 19:10:02 eh? 19:10:59 jah [n=jah@17.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:10 -!- jah [n=jah@17.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:49 Daemmerung: shouldn't that be Je t'accuse? 19:13:13 well, I brought out a torch, and you got a mirror. The phrase is "couldn't find his ___ with a flashlight and a mirror". Now, there's _another_ phrase that says "Opinions are like ___s -- everyone has one, and they all stink". 19:13:14 my grammar is probably quite a bit rusty, though. 19:13:33 jsw-lap: (Dreyfus affair.) 19:13:34 Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but the thing dies in the process and the innards are discouraging to any but the pure scientist. --E.B. White 19:13:58 ah I see now. 19:14:17 truly you have a dizzying intellect. 19:14:49 truly. 19:14:56 *offby1* holds on to a railing for steadiness 19:15:03 Twuly? Willy twuly? 19:15:21 *offby1* nods sowemwy 19:15:40 *Daemmerung* weturns to hunting wabbits 19:15:47 Here's probably as good a place to whine as any: Python's scoping rules are _insane_. 19:15:56 I don't suppose this is news to most of you. 19:16:15 I've managed to avoid Python so far. 19:16:18 as far as I can tell, there's no way to make a little region of code that's its own scope -- nothing like `let'. 19:16:31 The closest I can come is: define a _named_ function, then call it. *shudder* 19:16:31 The only price I have to pay is using C++ all the time instead...... aw crap. 19:16:49 hehe 19:17:08 I just wrote a little 150-line script, and even in that, I'm plagued by leaking globals. 19:17:13 That's right, offby1. 19:17:18 *whine* *whine* 19:17:23 didn't Guido get rid of lambdas, too? 19:17:24 Riastradh: fix it! Make it better! 19:17:25 It is unutterably brain-damaged. 19:17:41 Try this: 19:17:44 ^D 19:17:46 mzscheme 19:17:48 jsw-lap: no, they're still there, I think: but they've very limited. They can contain just a single expression -- and there's no equivalent of "begin" 19:17:49 ^J 19:17:51 -!- Inhuman [n=somethin@S0106001d7e47087f.su.shawcable.net] has quit [] 19:17:52 (or ^M) 19:17:55 s/they've/they're/ 19:18:06 Well, BEGIN doesn't create new scopes either. 19:18:08 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:18:12 LET does, though, even LET without bindings. 19:18:21 no, but BEGIN lets your lambda do more than one thing. 19:18:29 ...oh, right. 19:18:35 hehe 19:18:39 given how side-effecty Python is, you pretty much _have_ to have sequences to get anything done 19:18:43 what you should do is append all your globals with a random string. like "Anonymous_function32jvfjj399cfjs" 19:18:55 jsw-lap: that's pretty much how elisp works :) 19:18:58 While we're whining, I'd like to whine about some brain damage in POSIX spawn, which at least QNX spawn got right. 19:19:11 "spawn"? People use "spawn"? 19:19:14 Specifically, POSIX spawn provides no way to specify the exact set of file descriptors that will be open in the subprocess. 19:19:22 wasn 19:19:30 t that a horror movie in the laate 90s? 19:19:36 Sure, as in "hellspawn" or "misbegotton starspawn of Yuggoth" 19:19:38 presumably that's what "fork" and "exec" are for 19:19:50 begottEn 19:19:55 Yes, offby1, which is rather like smashing an ant with a sledgehammer. 19:20:00 yay 19:20:10 Riastradh, effective! 19:20:13 Riastradh: but that ant'd be good and dead. 19:20:18 reminds me of the comments on the recent /. story about relational vs key-value databases. 19:20:21 fork(2) and exec(2) are also considerably trickier in Scheme systems with user-level schedulers. 19:20:25 ah. 19:20:51 most of them consisted of "well, you can do all the key-value stuff in an RDB, so you should smash an ant with a sledgehammer" 19:20:52 Not undoable (in the literal sense, while what most people mean by `undo' is `dedo'), but tricky. Most initial attempts are wrong. 19:22:00 In Scheme48, for example, programs that just fork and exec, without carefully blocking interrupts at the right moments, can lose spectacularly. 19:23:17 how spectacular are we talking here? 19:23:41 The same thread might try to run in two different processes, performing the same actions in each one. 19:24:55 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 19:24:56 Such actions include writing to the file system, reading from or writing to interactive file descriptors, fighting over common controlling terminal, accepting socket connections from the same listener, &c. 19:25:59 (Um, insert article or plural form as appropriate in last sentence. *cough*) 19:26:02 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:26:20 I haven't looked into the Guile world much. Would it be fair to say it is quite a healthy community? 19:27:30 recovering? 19:27:58 there are some pretty exciting new developments lately, mostly along the lines of wingo's VM 19:28:52 It has been making reasonably steady progress, as far as I can see, since I joined the community a few years ago. No thanks to me, though. 19:29:19 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 19:29:50 sounds about right -- a long way to go before guile gets to the level of other schemes in terms of performance tho 19:31:51 wingo-tp: what other schemes are primarily designed to be used as embedded languages? 19:33:40 peter_12: dunno -- apparently people are using tinyscheme these days? 19:33:48 AtnNn_ [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:34:03 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:34:03 peter_12: lua? ;-) 19:34:14 but seriously, it seems like schemes grow over time 19:34:51 i think the thing is that the more you program in scheme, the more you want to program in scheme 19:35:02 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:07 so your language implementation grows to support posix, unicode, etc.. 19:35:16 wingo-tp: ahh 19:35:17 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:36:02 I would like to build a generalized text user interface platform scriptable with scheme 19:36:25 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:26 sounds like emacs with s/elisp/scheme/ 19:36:36 kind of like scripting inside the browser with JavaScript 19:36:41 wingo-tp: yes I suppose it is like emacs 19:36:46 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.160.184] has joined #scheme 19:37:54 foof: SYN 19:38:13 imo in the next 2-5 years, unless something happens on the emacs side, we'll have to fight to keep emacs in lisp -- other languages are gaining so rapidly... 19:39:14 wingo-tp: but it is still fragmented. There are many other languages 19:39:29 every day there seem to be more languages out there 19:39:48 peter_12: you're right -- though javascript is quite the steamroller 19:40:01 they have a really effective deployment model 19:40:04 (Does `fighting' entail perpetually discussing the state of the world of programming languages, rather than usefully solving technical problems?) 19:40:07 wingo-tp: indeed. 19:40:44 Riastradh: i agree with you, s/rather than/in addition to/ ;-) 19:40:44 wingo-tp: how do you see the development model in JavaScript as more effective than in Scheme 19:40:46 ? 19:40:59 peter_12: dunno -- i'm finding out now ;) 19:41:06 i'm writing a javascript compiler to guile now 19:41:11 we'll see how it goes 19:41:13 Riastradh: probably yes. 19:41:16 i think it could be a neat hack! 19:41:18 wingo-tp: why are you doing that? 19:41:32 wingo-tp, why not compile to R5RS 19:41:51 peter_12: selfishly, to see if guile can support multiple languages 19:42:09 incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:42:19 Cheshire: R5RS certainly makes sense as JavaScript is pretty straight forward 19:42:28 wingo-tp, fwiw that is one of the goals of guile 19:42:33 wingo-tp: so are you writing the javascript parser by hand? 19:42:39 peter_12: yep 19:42:41 wingo-tp, actually are you guile implementor or something? 19:42:46 Cheshire: yes 19:42:58 wingo-tp, ok you don't really need me to tell you that then.. 19:43:03 heh, np 19:43:15 i'm not a maintainer, so it's not an official perspective 19:43:15 wingo-tp, does guile implement R5RS? 19:43:19 i just think it would be neat 19:43:21 Cheshire: yes 19:43:28 i'd like for it to do r6 as well 19:43:32 I thought there was bits missing like SYNTAX-RULES or something 19:43:42 no, it has psyntax.ss 19:43:44 wingo-tp, I don't think that you would gain much from implementing R6RS 19:43:48 wingo-tp: Does JavaScript need any r6 features? 19:43:57 Cheshire: i would gain personally, as i could use r6 libraries 19:44:00 wingo-tp: fya, http://sourceforge.net/projects/js2scheme/ 19:44:10 and personally also, as i could distribute my libs to other schemes 19:44:12 incubot: dammit; why do you die everytime father is away? 19:44:15 are you goint to write a regexp everytime? 19:44:17 "Currently tested only with Guile" 19:44:31 Daemmerung: ah, neat, i didn't know that one. 19:44:40 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:52 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:47:13 oh, sourceforge, yicky yickiness. 19:47:17 "Ad 19:47:17 Project Information 19:47:17 About this project: 19:47:17 This is the project ("") ' 19:47:54 bleck 19:48:06 I always mistype the site as sourceforget. Methinks my hands know something that the rest of me doesn't. 19:48:15 nobody ever bothers to fill out their sourceforge pages, which makes the whole thing useful 19:48:19 *useless 19:48:52 Daemmerung: You can use sf.net as a shortcut 19:50:06 ah yes, one of the reasons i wanted to do js in guile was to have js at the repl 19:50:17 i can do ,lang javascript and type in javascript 19:50:25 and back to ,lang scheme and type in scheme 19:55:28 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 19:55:59 wow, too bad about js2scheme. it looked promising, but that was 9 years ago. 19:56:11 nothing worth salvaging 19:56:46 whoops! just threw the cat across the room. There was the other cat sitting right where she landed... 19:57:22 Cheshire: it does have a grammar in schemy form. 19:59:14 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:59:44 The_User [n=chatzill@p5B34EAEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:00:03 -!- Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 20:09:50 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:11:28 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 20:11:36 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 20:12:22 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 20:12:57 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:19 Is it possible to do a POST to an https URL in PLT scheme? The current docs say "Currently the only supported protocols are "http" and sometimes "file"", and yet I thought I heard discussion about https somewhere ... 20:13:26 eli: ping 20:14:11 offby1: pong 20:14:19 read above 20:14:46 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:14:58 There's a `post-pure-port' or something, which does POST, but you need to get the url thing to work with https first, which is not trivial. 20:15:05 :-( 20:15:39 offby1: http://tmp.barzilay.org/ 20:15:42 :) 20:16:00 That gives you the functions from net/url, prefixed with `ssl:' for dealing with https. 20:16:08 that's just your logo -- you maybe meant http://tmp.barzilay.org/something.ss 20:16:15 Ugh 20:16:17 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:17 offby1: http://tmp.barzilay.org/x 20:16:20 tx 20:16:22 jah [n=jah@17.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 20:16:34 Note that you'll need to specify the port explicitly too. 20:16:35 yeah. 20:16:49 that doesn't seem so nasty; is that slated to be in some future release? 20:16:56 And what you heard on the mailing list is my plan to write a substitute library for the url thing. 20:16:57 eli is amazing. He always has something within 20 seconds of one asking. 20:17:09 jsw-lap: pretty much 20:17:16 jsw-lap: Some people are just ... perfect. 20:17:25 glad to hear it. 20:17:50 Anyway, my plan is for a proper library -- one that will do both http and https with no need to jump through firey rings. 20:18:01 yay 20:18:05 And have it do a lot more, and without the ridiculous names that net/url uses. 20:18:12 jsw-lap: quit distracting him! Let him get to work on the proper library! 20:18:35 The whole `get-pure-port' and `post-pure-port' and such are names that are related to the implementation rather than what the user wants. 20:18:35 eli: just give me the PayPal ID, and I'll contribute to funding a slave^Wgrad student to work on it 20:18:45 *nod 20:18:59 eli: look! A big shiny object of indeterminate origin! 20:19:16 Reminds me of a guy that appeared in the last few days on the Israeli news -- 20:19:28 peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:19:33 he has about 32 wives, and (he claims) about 180 children. 20:19:53 At some point he says something like "I'm just perfect -- I have everything a woman needs". 20:20:00 -!- AtnNn_ [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["brb"] 20:20:14 So I guess I'm not as perfect as some people are. 20:20:28 eet works! 20:20:29 *offby1* dances 20:21:18 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:22:47 eli: why not? 20:22:57 he's not as perfect as Genghis Khan 20:23:00 in that regard. 20:23:05 *eli* plays hey sexy lady and watches offby1 shakes his behind. 20:23:21 too bad his number of children is not also a power of 2. 20:23:29 I'm a nerd; that's not how I dance. 20:23:37 *Daemmerung* hastily buries this ERC buffer in horror 20:23:42 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 20:24:11 eli: eww, typo: there appears to be a function named form-urlencoded-deecode. You correct the spelling, or at least deprecate the misspelled variant and add a properly-spelled one 20:24:18 (Sorry, just had a discussion with someone on how good I think that song is, and she was surprised that I like such an unweird thing.) 20:24:34 s/You/You should/ 20:24:44 Elly: Why am I not perfect as he is -- I have much fewer wives, and way fewer children. 20:24:51 the perfect number of children is either 6 or 28, though 20:26:39 offby1: Fixed -- and now there's a mention of "offby1" in the logs./ 20:30:04 when i lived in namibia, i lived in the house of a guy that had 68 kids. 20:32:31 gol-lee 20:32:41 *offby1* slaps Elly upside the haid 20:32:58 wingo-tp: hope they didn't all share the house with your 20:33:00 you 20:33:04 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:33:46 offby1: ow :( 20:33:48 people will think you corrected a fencepost error. 20:33:48 *Elly* sulks 20:33:53 Elly: or 496 perhaps? 20:34:29 offby1: only about 10. 20:34:40 how old was he? 20:34:52 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:48 eli: would it make sense for ~/.plt-scheme/plt-prefs.ss to be readable only by the owner? I kinda want to stick some passwords in there. 20:36:39 surely you could make another file to contain the passwords and make that readable by owner only 20:36:47 offby1: It probably won't stick, depending on how the file is rewritten. 20:36:54 -!- The_User [n=chatzill@p5B34EAEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 20:37:02 offby1: Might work better to make ~/.plt-scheme readable only by yourself. 20:37:30 offby1: But in any case, I'd keep passwords in a different file, so I can keep track of it explicitly. 20:37:47 yeah 20:46:17 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 20:47:15 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:47:37 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:34 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:52:00 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.160.184] has quit [] 20:53:20 -!- jah [n=jah@17.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:54:00 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:54:11 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:55:02 -!- peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:55:19 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 20:55:34 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 20:56:33 Hot chocolate! Smells like...victory. 20:57:20 the tutorial for embedding Guile is great! 21:00:23 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.1.67] has left #scheme 21:05:40 why do Guile's C api start with "gh_"? What is the "h" for? 21:07:23 'g_' is already taken by gtk? 21:07:28 *Elly* is not sure 21:09:32 It's because `guile' has an invisible `h' -- somewhat like a silent `h', only the other way around. 21:09:40 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:10:10 peter_12: uf, that's an out-of date api 21:10:18 peter_12: where did you read about that api? 21:10:36 wingo-tp: http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/docs/guile-tut/tutorial.html 21:10:40 too bad it is out of date 21:10:43 that is a great tutorial 21:11:08 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c809ABF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit ["sleeping"] 21:11:08 the only problem is I cannot get the first example working in OS X (the first example doesn't use guile at all) 21:11:46 i'll send a mail to the list, i don't have the resources to fix that right now 21:12:08 the guile manual itself has an OK introduction/tutorial that uses current APIs 21:12:21 (So... It doesn't work, and it's out of dat -- that's a very weird definition of a "great tutorial".) 21:12:28 http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/ 21:12:38 eli: heh 21:12:54 it can read nicely ;) 21:12:57 eli: it is very easy to read. Clear explanations. I'm sure it was good at the time. 21:13:56 I have a few books that can be read nicely -- now I know that they must have been guile tutorials. 21:14:48 your logic is impeccable 21:15:06 Where can I find books that read nicely? Have they evolved eyes and complex neurological systems? 21:15:22 robopaper 3000! 21:17:14 voidpointer [n=void@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has joined #scheme 21:20:30 also! 21:20:36 *eli* throws a thick Hebrew dictionary in Riastradh's direction. 21:20:38 in the interests of pedantics 21:20:40 6. To appear in writing or print; to be expressed by, or 21:20:41 consist of, certain words or characters; as, the passage 21:20:41 reads thus in the early manuscripts. 21:20:41 [1913 Webster] 21:21:12 But I was just following what was said previously, to avoid breaking the continuity. 21:21:24 [As if *that's* an important feature of irc...] 21:21:33 hehe 21:25:01 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 21:25:19 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-171-110.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 21:27:03 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:29:22 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:59 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:33:44 geckosen1tor [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 21:39:48 -!- Guest92691 [n=m@dslb-092-074-004-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:39:54 -!- voidpointer [n=void@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has quit ["cambada_de_atoa"] 21:41:19 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:18 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:15 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:47:18 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:47:57 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:49:41 HG` [n=wells@222-152-94-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 21:49:44 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-152-94-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:43 grr. languages that are not scheme have crazy syntax. 21:55:14 O'RLY? 21:56:27 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:56:39 http://static.roflbot.wigflip.com/example2-thumb.jpg 21:57:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:56 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:02:59 -!- jsw-lap [n=jsw@cpe-75-187-46-126.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:06:07 English syntax is really crazy :P 22:06:13 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 22:12:20 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:14 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:18:32 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-213.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:19:52 *Daemmerung* retcons #scheme 22:22:17 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:12 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 22:25:30 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 22:25:49 peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:30:31 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:32:04 -!- peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:36:41 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:39:51 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:50:22 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:35 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:10:28 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:10:34 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 23:17:19 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@142.Red-81-39-163.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:19:28 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:20:41 -!- jmo- [n=jmo-@c-83-233-243-145.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:22:02 mejja pasted "sin,cos,tan & exp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75553 23:22:10 Riastradh: ;-) 23:25:19 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:32:23 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #scheme 23:36:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-59-51.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:38:20 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05788C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:39:36 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:41 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:42:32 peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:42:40 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 23:51:42 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DD567.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"]