00:00:50 -!- newrudybot is now known as mr-slave 00:01:12 mr-slave: foo 00:02:13 mr-slave: revolt! 00:02:33 I'm Spartacus, and so is my wife. 00:03:39 There's no validation of the nick change? 00:04:05 mr-slave: eval (display "Spartabacus had a farm, eyaeyaow!") 00:04:29 sladegen: Won't work -- he still thinks that he's newrudybot... 00:04:34 newrudybot: eval (+ 1 2) 00:04:35 *eli: ; Value: 3 00:05:01 I don't see anything in the IRC chatter that verrifies that the nick was changed. 00:05:12 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:05:35 090129-01:00:50 ### newrudybot is now known as mr-slave 00:06:07 Yes, I know -- I just don't see where on the logs it sees that... 00:07:25 -!- mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:12:39 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:14:56 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:20:44 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:33:00 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:04 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@dsl092-166-158.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 00:36:28 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.229.88] has left #scheme 00:38:15 -!- djgera [n=djgera@host200.200-117-152.telecom.net.ar] has left #scheme 00:42:27 -!- sbarr [n=sb@compaq30.larp.blackrocknet.com] has quit [] 00:46:03 -!- lc0825360 [n=lc@d83-183-30-144.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:47:35 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 00:49:04 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 00:49:47 nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 00:49:51 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:53:52 Cale_ [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:54:08 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:54:12 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 00:54:44 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.250.14] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:55:01 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-76-195-126-249.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:55:23 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-76-195-126-249.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:56:02 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 01:03:32 -!- levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:03:37 levi` [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 01:06:17 mr-slave: emote escapes 01:14:38 eli, offby1: a question about New, Improved Rudybot and give/grab: is a Given value a copy of the original, or is it a reference to the same original value? If I give somebody a box or a closure while maintaining a reference to same, will subsequent changes that I make to the contents of that box or closure frame appear in the Given version? 01:20:38 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:20:45 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:21:13 what do you mean by changing a closure frame? 01:23:37 Contents of a frame. E.g., "acc" in (let ((acc 0)) (lambda (x) (set! acc (+ acc x)) acc)) 01:24:11 give Daemmerung (define (make-account) (let ((x 100)) (lambda (y) (set! x (- x y)) x))) (make-account) 01:24:20 rudybot: give Daemmerung (define (make-account) (let ((x 100)) (lambda (y) (set! x (- x y)) x))) (make-account) 01:24:20 Daemmerung: klutometis has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 01:24:36 Daemmerung: can't you go ((GRAB) 10) now and decrement the value? 01:24:38 rudybot: (define x (GRAB)) 01:24:38 Daemmerung: ? 01:24:54 rudybot: eval (define x (GRAB)) 01:24:56 oh, but i don't have access to it to see whether it propagated on my end 01:25:04 klutometis: right, you got it. 01:25:10 rudybot: define b (box 0) 01:25:10 eli: ? 01:25:16 rudybot: eval (define b (box 0)) 01:25:23 rudybot: give Daemmerung b 01:25:23 Daemmerung: eli has given you a value, use (GRAB) 01:25:24 Anyway, I have to run off and buy booze. Will try later. 01:25:52 rudybot: eval (define b (GRAB)) 01:25:52 Daemmerung: Short-short version, it is a reference to the same value. 01:26:10 eli: Nifty. That's what I was hoping. 01:26:15 Daemmerung: do (set-box! b ) 01:26:22 That's the whole point... 01:26:37 rudybot: eval (set-box! b 'Uncle) 01:26:57 rudybot: eval (get-box b) 01:26:57 Daemmerung: error: reference to undefined identifier: get-box 01:27:07 rudybot: eval (unbox b) 01:27:07 eli: ; Value: Uncle 01:27:28 Bitchin. 01:27:36 *Daemmerung* runs off to the wine shop before they close 01:28:03 rudybot: eval (set-box! b 'booze) 01:37:27 gcopenhaver [n=greg@c-71-206-116-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:48 -!- Kumool [n=Amarante@24.139.152.73] has left #scheme 01:45:15 Aha! I think I've almost got this condition stuff moved over to a Chez-y version. 01:47:38 specbot: clhs format 01:47:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 01:48:10 BTW, does no one have any better solution to META-LET*? 01:49:08 mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:49:33 mr-slave: eval 123 01:51:06 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 01:51:26 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 01:52:11 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:52:12 -!- mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:52:46 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:18 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 01:53:44 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-142-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:56:36 mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:56:42 mr-slave: eval 123 01:56:43 *eli: ; Value: 123 01:56:48 Great success. 02:05:32 mr-slave: clhs format 02:05:32 specbot: clhs format 02:05:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 02:05:45 mr-slave: man man 02:05:45 specbot: man man 02:05:45 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/man.1.html 02:05:46 -mr-slave:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/462maw 02:05:46 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/462maw 02:05:56 We beat the competition. 02:06:23 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-150-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:08 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 02:10:55 eli: what beating where? 02:11:18 and when are we having dinner? 02:13:00 *Fare* eli (and are you related to Regina Barzilay at MIT?) 02:13:11 /me is not /msg 02:13:13 grrr 02:13:35 Fare: (a) I just beat all of specbot's features. 02:13:52 Fare: (b) Idon'tknow... Tough weather now... 02:14:03 Fare: (c) Just a little bit... 02:14:18 (b) I'm not proposing an outdoor barbecue 02:14:25 :) 02:21:37 Riastradh: I don't understand the need for WITH-TEST-RESTARTERS. 02:22:16 It seems like you catch and handle all your signals and conditions in the WITH-TEST-CONDITION-HANDLER procedure, and I can't see anywhere that the code attempts to use the RETRY procedure. 02:22:34 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:24:30 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:34 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28:16 -!- dudrenov [n=user@h-67-101-217-41.snfccasy.covad.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:35:29 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 02:36:45 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:31 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 02:40:44 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:45:42 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A09E0.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:35 -!- mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:48:57 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-211-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:51:22 mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 02:53:21 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:53:30 This code causes an out-of-context macro-expander error on Chez and Ikarus does it do so on other systems or is this just an Indianaism? (let-syntax ([x (lambda (y) (syntax y))]) (x)) 02:55:16 s/Ikarus does/Ikarus. Does/ 03:02:19 I don't think this is valid. 03:02:48 What are you trying to do? 03:02:48 arcfide: the code or the out-of-context error? 03:02:53 The code. 03:03:33 arcfide: I'm actually poking at the semantics of the macro expander so I can understand it better. 03:04:44 Ah, right. 03:04:45 arcfide: I discovered this "bug" (i.e. it would throw out of context error) in my (crazy) implementation of syntax case and was supprized to find Chez/Ikarus also did the same thing. 03:05:01 pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:05:07 Replace (syntax y) with (syntax 'y). 03:05:10 See what happens? 03:06:01 I believe you get: (x) => y which is not visible in the LET-SYNTAX form. 03:06:11 I get back (quote y). 03:06:18 The y is only visible in the LAMBDA. 03:06:22 pantsd [n=hkarau@nat/uwaterloo/x-634453b39eb8adc3] has joined #scheme 03:06:25 I think. 03:06:34 I expect other systems to do the same thing. 03:06:51 rudybot: eval (let-syntax ([x (lambda (y) (syntax y))]) (x)) 03:06:52 arcfide: error: eval:1:36: compile: identifier used out of context in: y 03:07:07 Aye, so 'tis. 03:07:33 what does rudybot run? DrScheme? 03:07:41 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:08:05 -!- mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:08:05 Yes. 03:08:09 MzScheme, actually. 03:08:16 It's PLT, though. 03:08:32 mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 03:08:56 Sorry, Pidgin crashed. Last I saw was my question of what rudybot runs 03:10:08 arcfide: scope this out: http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~gkaukola 03:10:33 decker: Woah, cool. 03:11:05 thanks 03:11:40 think I've gotten that bug out of my system at any rate, so I suppose I should go back to actually learning scheme now 03:19:33 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.181.46.24] has joined #scheme 03:23:39 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:24:55 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:26:41 rtra [n=rtra@89.181.35.145] has joined #scheme 03:27:10 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.132] has joined #scheme 03:27:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:28:54 Sorry, did anyone reply as to how trc-testing compares to the SRFI test suites? 03:30:37 -!- rtra_ [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:27 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:34 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:39:43 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:50 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:40:40 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:41:35 Testing in Scheme is hard to do right, harder to do wrong, and hardest not to overengineer. 03:42:23 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 03:42:51 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:44:51 newrudybot [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:45:19 newrudybot: doc set-car! 03:45:21 *eli: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: rnrs/mutable-pairs-6, r5rs 03:45:27 offby1: ping 03:46:26 -!- melito_ [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:47:44 Oh my dear beloved ASCII Xterm, it seems to work! 03:50:39 -!- levi` is now known as levi 03:53:08 -!- Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B545D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:53:39 Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B54931.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 03:53:41 rudybot: eval (unbox b) 03:53:41 Daemmerung: ; Value: booze 03:53:47 *hic* 03:54:25 -!- decoder_ring [n=adam@c-68-40-195-220.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:54:55 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:58:33 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["brb"] 04:00:18 meanburrito920 [n=meanburr@adsl-75-59-213-106.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:01:32 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 04:05:31 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.180.234.133] has joined #scheme 04:06:23 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 04:06:51 eli: pong 04:07:02 *offby1* wonders if eli is now tracking his available hour 04:07:03 s 04:07:25 rudybot: give Daemmerung (box 'rain) 04:07:26 Daemmerung: offby1 has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 04:07:34 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 04:08:24 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 04:08:36 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:09:18 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 04:11:00 decoder_ring [n=adam@c-68-40-195-220.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:11:37 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 04:13:41 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.59.231] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:13:44 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.132] has quit [] 04:14:41 offby1: No, it happens to be mine too. 04:14:59 still, I'm taking precautions 04:15:20 Did you follow the new bells? 04:15:23 now. 04:15:25 no. 04:15:30 I'm encountering something bizarre; 04:15:41 same bot code works differently on my two different machines. 04:15:42 newrudybot: tell offby1 I'm even more better. 04:15:43 offby1: I'm even more better. 04:15:45 4.1.4 on both. 04:15:55 Both Ubuntu Intrepid x86 32-bit 04:15:55 newrudybot: emote shrugs 04:15:55 *newrudybot* shrugs 04:16:02 same exact code 04:16:06 on one box: works fine. 04:16:19 And? 04:16:22 On the other, though, it exits -- with 0, apparently -- right after loading irc-process-line.ss. 04:16:29 newrudybot: nick offby2 04:16:29 -!- newrudybot is now known as offby2 04:16:34 All I can think of is that there's some error that's being suppressed. 04:16:54 offby2: I _knew_ offby1, and believe me, you're no offby1. 04:16:54 offby1: ? 04:17:13 strace isn't illuminating 04:17:17 I'm entirely stumped. 04:17:29 offby2: doc set-cdr! 04:17:30 *eli: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: rnrs/mutable-pairs-6, r5rs 04:17:37 damn. 04:17:45 And the recent super-feature: 04:17:46 Good night everyone 04:17:53 offby2: clhs cons 04:17:53 specbot: clhs cons 04:17:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_cons.htm 04:17:57 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-69.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Sleeping!"] 04:18:00 *snicker* 04:18:03 Distributed computing. 04:18:06 trampoline. 04:18:08 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.59.231] has joined #scheme 04:19:04 As for your problem, I have no idea. 04:19:07 -!- bsmntbombdood is now known as bsmntbombgirl 04:19:08 :-( 04:19:14 One thing to try is to disable errortrace. 04:19:15 bsmntbombgirl: I saw that. 04:19:21 eli: hm, ok 04:19:36 Which is easy with the new setup, since it's also with an environment variable. 04:19:41 actually it's not enabled :-( 04:19:49 I'd also compare the two plt trees and see if there's any difference. 04:20:39 And especially if it's the same ubuntu/cpu/etc, then the same strace is really weird. 04:20:52 Ha, the difference isn't between the machines at alL! 04:20:57 It's how I'm invoking it: 04:21:06 mzscheme main.ss => exits silently and suddenly 04:21:11 ./main.ss => works fine 04:21:25 (that's exec mzscheme -l errortrace --require $0 --main -- ${1+"$@"} for those following along at home) 04:21:32 now, why would that be? 04:21:52 because I'm not invoking 'main', I guess. 04:21:54 hmm 04:22:10 Yes, of course. 04:22:14 yeah, magic is happening at load-time, which confused me 04:22:16 *offby1* sulks 04:22:45 *offby1* leases a case of those forget-guns that Tommy Lee Jones used in "Men In Black" 04:22:47 *offby2* blinks 04:22:48 OK, everyone: hold still 04:23:03 *elly* puts on mirrored shades 04:23:18 *offby2* asks about the weather 04:24:37 offby2: Patches in the usual place. 04:24:37 *eli: ? 04:24:44 offby1: Patches in the usual place. 04:24:51 *eli* slaps offby2 04:25:01 -!- offby2 is now known as offby4 04:25:58 *eli* slaps offby4 04:26:00 -!- offby4 is now known as offby8 04:26:10 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:27:36 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 04:30:21 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:34:03 eli: can you tell me the SHA1 of the commit against which you made your patches? 04:37:37 This has been one of the most hilarious exchanges I've seen in a while. 04:37:42 Really, we should have a hall of fame. 04:37:48 *offby1* scowls 04:37:53 Stalker. 04:38:20 I barely know 'er! 04:38:57 *gnomon* pulls the lid onto a tupperware container from the inside and finds a comfy spot in the fridge 04:39:16 damned tentacles 04:41:28 sha1 is broken 04:41:29 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:42:24 sha2 then 04:42:35 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:43:22 -!- nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:44:17 i'm waiting for sha3 04:44:49 I'm waiting for shazam 04:45:28 Anyone play with nuff? 04:45:43 *offby1* suppresses a pun 04:48:12 (set! *topic* (string-append "A couple of days left for the election of the new steering committee. Deadline Feb. 2nd." *topic*) 04:52:11 eli: never mind, got it 04:53:10 Oh, has voting started? 04:58:27 foof: no 04:59:00 but application deadline for wanna-voters is on feb 2nd. 05:02:47 kyeldon [n=andreas@g228076130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:04:51 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 05:06:31 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:08:18 eli: OK, here's a genuine question: why is a box better than a parameter (for, e.g., *my-nick*)? 05:09:46 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:09:57 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.181.1.119] has joined #scheme 05:12:50 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:12:55 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 05:15:09 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:15:35 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:19:37 -!- gcopenhaver [n=greg@c-71-206-116-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:24:44 benny [n=benny@i577A0839.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 05:24:49 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:25:36 -!- mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 05:27:36 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176214120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:48 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176213255.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:28:16 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 05:29:00 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:29:05 -!- meanburrito920 [n=meanburr@adsl-75-59-213-106.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:37:13 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:37:32 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:37:41 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.244.176] has joined #scheme 05:42:49 tizoc [n=user@r190-133-128-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:52:24 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-142-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:58:25 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:58:37 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:59:23 -!- kilimanjaro is now known as everest 06:01:19 -!- everest is now known as kilimanjaro 06:11:37 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:12:49 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:17:30 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0839.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:18:17 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:19:56 dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:22:08 -!- kilimanjaro is now known as shamwow 06:22:23 -!- shamwow is now known as kilimanjaro 06:22:31 dmoerner` [n=user@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:22:31 -!- dmoerner` [n=user@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:26:29 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:31:21 rudybot: eval (define a (GRAB)) 06:31:23 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:32:16 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:18 rudybot: eval (set-box! a (list 'fee 'fie 'foe 'fum)) 06:32:18 Daemmerung: error: set-box!: expects argument of type ; given # 06:32:33 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 06:32:58 rudybot: eval a 06:33:12 this is less evaluation than usual 06:33:26 Maybe offby1's gift timed out. 06:33:37 offby1 has a gift? 06:34:00 He gave me a value 2.5 hours ago. Thus claim the logs. 06:34:06 ahh 06:34:18 rudybot: eval (+ 1 1) 06:34:19 elly: ; Value: 2 06:34:21 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:34:23 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 06:34:30 hm...that should be #, right? 06:34:35 Hang on. 06:34:49 rudybot: eval (define a (list 'fee 'fie 'foe 'fum)) 06:35:05 rudybot: give elly a 06:35:05 elly: Daemmerung has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 06:35:10 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 06:35:11 elly: ; Value: (fee fie foe fum) 06:35:13 okay, there we go 06:37:34 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["Disconnecting from stoned server."] 06:39:13 *offby1* nods gravely 06:40:07 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.180.101.74] has joined #scheme 06:40:42 rudybot: eval (set-cdr! (cdr (cdr (cdr a))) (list 'a 'b 'c)) 06:40:43 Daemmerung: error: reference to undefined identifier: set-cdr! 06:41:07 rudybot: eval (define b (list 'hey 'baby 'whats 'up)) 06:41:11 rudybot: give elly b 06:41:12 elly: banisterfiend has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 06:41:26 D'oh. Right. Didn't init r5rs. 06:42:29 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 06:42:29 elly: ; Value: (hey baby whats up) 06:42:32 :O 06:42:45 rudybot: give banisterfiend (lambda (x) '(not much)) 06:42:46 banisterfiend: elly has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 06:42:51 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:43:26 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 06:43:27 banisterfiend: ; Value: # 06:44:28 rudybot: (eval (GRAB)) 06:44:28 banisterfiend: ? 06:44:32 hehe 06:44:34 *banisterfiend* too noob 06:44:45 I recommend calling it 06:44:48 it's a function 06:44:58 (call eval (GRAB)) 06:45:03 no 06:45:11 you want eval ((GRAB) x) 06:45:13 or something 06:45:38 rudybot: eval ((GRAB) x) 06:45:39 banisterfiend: error: reference to undefined identifier: x 06:45:40 aka a procedure 06:46:00 rudybot: eval (eval (GRAB) x) 06:46:00 banisterfiend: error: reference to undefined identifier: x 06:46:02 you need to use a real value, of course 06:46:03 rudybot: eval (eval (GRAB) ) 06:46:03 banisterfiend: ; Value: # 06:46:04 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 06:46:06 rudybot: eval (eval (GRAB) 0) 06:46:06 banisterfiend: error: eval: expects type as 2nd argument, given: 0; other arguments were: # 06:46:11 try eval ((GRAB) 0) 06:46:20 rudybot: eval ((GRAB) 0) 06:46:20 banisterfiend: ; Value: (not much) 06:46:22 cooL! 06:46:30 thanks 06:48:39 I still thought sending mutator functions was the coolest. Don't even have to use grab then 06:49:40 rudybot: eval (define messages null) 06:49:50 yeah 06:50:36 rudybot: give banisterfiend (lambda (message) (set! messages (cons message messages))) 06:50:37 banisterfiend: synx has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 06:51:03 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 06:51:03 banisterfiend: ; Value: # 06:51:17 send me a message ^.^ 06:51:19 rudybot: eval ((GRAB) 0) 06:51:29 hey i thin you got the wrong guy here, im a serious noob :) 06:51:35 i can barely print 'hello world' :D 06:51:40 synx: give me a mutator! 06:51:43 rudybot: eval messages 06:51:43 synx: ; Value: (0) 06:51:58 rudybot: give elly (lambda (message) (set! messages (cons message messages))) 06:51:58 elly: synx has given you a value, use (GRAB) 06:52:14 rudybot: eval (define send-synx (GRAB)) 06:52:21 rudybot: eval (send-synx "Hello!") 06:52:34 rudybot: eval messages 06:52:34 synx: ; Value: ("Hello!" 0) 06:52:54 rudybot: eval (car messages) 06:52:54 synx: ; Value: "Hello!" 06:53:01 victory :) 06:53:06 hehee 06:53:15 rudybot: eval (define messages null) 06:53:24 rudybot: eval (set! messages null) 06:53:36 rudybot: eval (define (msend x) (set! messages (cons m messages))) 06:53:38 banisterfiend: send me another message :3 06:53:41 rudybot: (send-synx msend) 06:53:41 elly: ? 06:53:46 rudybot: eval (send-synx msend) 06:53:53 bidirectional communication! 06:54:01 rudybot: eval (letrec ((foo (lambda () (display "penis") (foo)))) (foo)) 06:54:05 bsmntbombgirl: error: with-limit: out of time 06:54:07 rudybot: eval (car messages) 06:54:07 synx: ; Value: # 06:54:12 *offby1* giggles 06:54:16 rudybot: eval (define send-elly (car messages)) 06:54:16 he said "penis" 06:54:22 offby1: SHE 06:54:33 bsmntbombd00d? 06:54:40 Tranny in the channel. 06:54:53 bsmntbombgirl: how come soumetimes your name is bsmntbombgirl and sometimes bsmntbombdood, are you undergoing gender identity disorder? 06:54:54 rudybot: eval (send-elly "Back at you!") 06:54:55 runtime type-casting 06:54:55 synx: error: reference to undefined identifier: m 06:55:01 oh dear 06:55:05 banisterfiend: must be 06:55:07 oops! 06:55:11 rudybot: eval (define (msend x) (set! messages (cons x messages))) 06:55:14 rudybot: eval (send-synx msend) 06:55:17 there you go :P 06:55:26 ehe 06:55:31 rudybot: eval (pprint messages) 06:55:32 bsmntbombgirl: error: reference to undefined identifier: pprint 06:55:33 rudybot: eval messages 06:55:34 synx: ; Value: (# #) 06:55:37 rudybot: eval (pretty-print messages) 06:55:38 bsmntbombgirl: error: reference to undefined identifier: messages 06:55:46 rudybot: eval (set! send-elly (car messages)) 06:55:52 rudybot: eval (send-elly "Back at you!") 06:55:57 rudybot: eval (car messages) 06:55:57 elly: ; Value: "Back at you!" 06:55:59 w00t. 06:56:05 bidirectional communication achieved :) 06:56:16 rudybot: eval messages 06:56:16 synx: ; Value: (# #) 06:56:21 rudybot: eval (set! messages null) 06:56:22 rudybot: eval messages 06:56:23 synx: ; Value: () 06:56:35 *synx* dances 06:56:42 rudybot: eval send-elly 06:56:42 synx: ; Value: # 06:56:46 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #scheme 06:56:52 rudybot: eval (define (make-msgq) (let ((mq null)) (cons mq (lambda (m) (set! mq (cons m mq))))) 06:56:52 elly: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 06:56:55 rudybot: eval (define (make-msgq) (let ((mq null)) (cons mq (lambda (m) (set! mq (cons m mq)))))) 06:57:04 rudybot: eval (make-msgq) 06:57:04 elly: ; Value: (() . #) 06:57:05 foof [n=user@clair16.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:57:06 there we go 06:57:15 rudybot: (define mq (make-msgq)) 06:57:16 elly: ? 06:57:19 rudybot: eval (define mq (make-msgq)) 06:57:29 rudybot: send synx (cdr mq) 06:57:30 elly: ? 06:57:32 dammit 06:57:36 rudybot: give synx (cdr mq) 06:57:36 synx: elly has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 06:57:37 ooh sweet 06:57:42 try writing to that 06:57:53 calling it, rather 06:57:58 not send-synx? :3 06:58:02 oh, yeah 06:58:05 I could've done that 06:58:10 rudybot: eval (set! send-elly (GRAB)) 06:58:41 rudybot: eval (send-elly "The cake is a lie") 06:59:00 rudybot: eval (car mq) 06:59:00 elly: ; Value: () 06:59:03 hm. 06:59:20 I feel like that should've worked... 06:59:24 rudybot: eval mq 06:59:25 elly: ; Value: (() . #) 07:00:01 As do I, Sonic 07:00:21 strange 07:01:37 The cons must be of whatever mq was at the time, and setting mq it's still inaccessible. 07:02:08 maybe... 07:03:02 ah 07:03:25 rudybot: eval (define (make-msgq) (let ((mq null)) (cons (lambda () mq) (lambda (m) (set! mq (cons m mq)))))) 07:03:48 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 07:03:50 rudybot: (define mq (make-msgq)) 07:03:50 synx: ? 07:03:53 rudybot: eval (define mq (make-msgq)) 07:03:53 synx: error: reference to undefined identifier: make-msgq 07:04:09 rudybot: eval (define (make-msgq) (let ((mq null)) (cons (lambda () mq) (lambda (m) (set! mq (cons m mq)))))) 07:04:15 rudybot: eval (define mq (make-msgq)) 07:04:37 rudybot: give elly (cdr mq) 07:04:37 elly: synx has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 07:04:53 rudybot: eval ((car mq)) 07:04:53 synx: ; Value: () 07:04:54 rudybot: eval ((GRAB) "Hi!") 07:05:37 rudybot: eval ((car mq)) 07:05:37 synx: ; Value: ("Hi!") 07:05:45 yae 07:05:51 ahh 07:06:59 rudybot: give elly make-msgq 07:06:59 elly: synx has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 07:07:40 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:08:53 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 07:09:01 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 07:10:00 rudybot: eval ((GRAB) ":O") 07:10:00 elly: error: procedure make-msgq: expects no arguments, given 1: ":O" 07:10:08 oh, you gave me that 07:10:09 cool :) 07:11:14 is it data? is it code? 07:11:18 tune in next time! 07:13:28 *offby1* can't wait 07:14:16 how do you implement letrec anyway? 07:15:13 raikov 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has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:12:41 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-133-97.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:16:59 -!- Guest40678 [n=mike@infedyn086.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:18:33 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:21:39 -!- kyeldon [n=andreas@x405.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:26:37 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:27:01 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 11:27:28 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:27:43 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme 11:29:46 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:33:28 guys, I never used a macros. Now I want to define my first macro with following semantic: (macro (+ 1 2)) expands to + 11:34:16 the problem is, when I try use macro defined with define-syntax, the inner expr (+ 1 2) is evaluated before macro expansion. 11:34:27 (or inside macro expansion?) 11:36:37 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 11:37:09 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 11:38:48 rmrfchik pasted "macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74484 11:39:05 this is what I'm trying to do 11:39:23 -!- drdo__ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:40:09 -!- troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 11:58:17 syntax-rules is simpler than that 11:58:26 it's just pattern matching 11:58:37 what does FUNC match with your example? 11:59:54 sandGorgon [n=user@122.162.142.236] has joined #scheme 12:00:00 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 12:05:25 -!- jah [n=jah@200.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:09:13 rmrfchik: I think you should use some form of rewriting macro, not syntax-rules. 12:10:04 Some kind og common-lisp style macro I mean 12:10:41 aspect: hmm.. I can't answer your question. Can you give correct solution? 12:10:43 ;) 12:12:36 tizoc [n=user@r190-133-147-67.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 12:14:50 rmrfchik: What implementation of scheme do you use? 12:15:45 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:17:30 Mr-Cat: I prefer to stay in r5(6)rs boundaries 12:17:41 X-Scale [i=email@89-180-72-88.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 12:17:43 and expect to use plt and chicken 12:18:22 Daemmeru` [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 12:18:53 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:53 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 12:18:53 -!- edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:53 edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 12:19:25 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:23:58 rtra [n=rtra@89.181.50.147] has joined #scheme 12:27:10 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 12:28:15 You may try to fix the pattern matching in syntax-rules: something like [(m (f args ...)) f] instead of [(m . func) (car func)] 12:30:41 hm. 12:31:23 it works. 12:34:00 Mr-Cat: Glad, that it works. I was just installing chicken in order to test that. 12:34:39 i'm testing in plt now 12:35:41 rmrfchick: Btw, in chicken you will probably have to install an extension to their expander to make 'syntax-rules' work 12:36:50 riaxpander egg, I believe 12:42:06 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-181-189.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:43:38 I was told that it's the best macroexpander for chicken, though it can be slow sometimes 12:45:11 gorki [n=chatzill@p54A7E5CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:51:06 riaxpander allows you to compile macros, making it much faster than any of the alternatives 12:51:47 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:58:40 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 13:04:06 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:04:23 foof: Compile macros? What do you mean? 13:05:39 rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@141.89.226.149] has joined #scheme 13:06:49 compile the macros themselves, so they load faster, which lets you compile/load other code faster 13:10:18 foof: Does that work for eggs only? 13:10:36 it works for all code 13:10:46 Who told you it could be slow? 13:11:10 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-211-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:44 foof: Nm, I just misunderstood the example on riaxpander's page 13:12:29 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 13:13:43 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 13:13:45 foof: About riaxpander being slow... I mean, it takes considerable time for it to load and to expand the macros when the code is interpreted (csi -s). It's not about the performance of the expanded code. 13:13:50 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:21 Do you have an old version? It loads instantly for me, and much faster than syntax-case. 13:15:33 -!- drdo_ is now known as drdo 13:16:00 isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:17:31 foof: I cannot check the version for now. I installed it with chicken-setup approx. 3 weeks ago. 13:19:10 Well, maybe it's not just riaxpander, but riaxpander+matchable? I've just recalled, that the code I used riaxpander with, used pattern matching 13:19:28 -!- gorki [n=chatzill@p54A7E5CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:20:14 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:20:32 Oh... matchable is slow to load. It, too, could be compiled, but isn't by default. 13:22:53 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:24:29 borism [n=boris@195-50-211-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 13:25:00 foof: Well, then, I was mistaken. So, it's matchable, that is slow, not riaxpander. 13:26:19 Any non-compiled macro will be slow, and that goes for any of the macro expanders. Riaxpander, however, is the only one that lets you compile macros. 13:28:02 foof: Mmm, I've never thought of that (don't have much experience in working with macros). 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[n=user@clair16.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:25:57 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:26:16 benny [n=benny@i577A0839.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 15:26:31 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has joined #scheme 15:26:46 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 15:31:14 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 15:31:39 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 15:33:29 sadass 15:34:14 feeeeeeheeeeeeeelings (wo wo wo) 15:34:44 work suck :( 15:34:53 *elf* comforts the leppie. 15:35:24 i much prefer guarding the cauldron full of gold at the bottom of the rainboq 15:35:25 w 15:35:49 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 15:35:52 erm? 15:36:00 *elf* wasnt aware that was an option. 15:36:18 -!- mike is now known as Guest51122 15:36:38 well thtas what leprikorns do :p 15:36:59 is that so. 15:37:29 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:30 well leppie could either be for leprichaun or for a motherless calf 15:37:40 but neither is how I got my nick 15:37:47 how did you get it, then? 15:38:30 my initials are LP, and I have 2 e's in my name, so it just formed like that over time 15:38:37 nice. 15:38:46 my initials are LEF. hence elf. 15:38:53 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:39:23 :) 15:39:55 nice things is, that if I google for 'leppie' my links come up, very unique, but recently more buggers have been using it :( 15:40:20 i consider it a nice thing that its very very hard to find me by my nicks. 15:41:08 elf - 48,600,000 google hits. 15:41:08 but you cant say "well just f$cking google me!" :) 15:41:15 i know! thats a good thing! 15:41:26 i dont mind 15:41:34 if i wanted random people googling me, id put up information about myself somewhere. 15:41:48 it's not like i have links to my bac\nk account numbers lying around 15:42:07 i like being invisible. 15:42:16 and I dont even get spam 15:42:19 -!- drdo1 [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:42:20 then, when the revolution comes, i can take on another persona easily. 15:42:36 well 1 or 2 a week/month maybe 15:42:45 oh, i get tonnes of spam. 15:42:53 mostly cause of my former job as an antispammer :) 15:42:59 lol 15:43:10 what, you spammed the spammers? 15:43:20 i intentionally seeded several of my accounts to sketchy sites to gain material for a live corpus. 15:44:03 anyways, thats sounds like a dangerous job, people dont take kindly to others taking their 'livelyhood' away 15:44:10 *elf* shrugs. 15:44:29 there are only a few hundred serious spammers, tops. 15:44:48 but a lot are involved with organized crime syndicates 15:45:09 yeah, well, both spam and antispam are different rackets. :) 15:45:16 computer security is a racket. 15:45:22 -!- Guest51122 [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:45:46 malware, botflies, spam, etc are also rackets. 15:45:58 its just whether you want to be respectable or not. 15:46:06 *elf* is cynical about computing today. 15:46:08 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:09 lol, my mind kepted on sticking on racquet ;p 15:46:59 racquets are useful if youre participating in a racket. :) 15:47:06 you can whack people with em. 15:48:05 as long as it is better than badmington (or however you spell it) one 15:48:55 ping pong! 15:49:02 rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 15:49:13 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 15:49:27 ok offtopic Q, can you run ubuntu-amd64 on intel core 2 duo? 15:49:30 hey rotty 15:49:58 no idea. why would you want to? 15:50:15 i need to test 64bit mono on linux 15:50:22 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@150.182.230.164] has quit [] 15:50:24 ah. 15:50:32 why not stick a boot cd in and try it? 15:50:38 2nd q is whether you can run it on a 32-bit host on virtualbox? 15:50:51 2nd q is almost certainly not. 15:51:07 it boots with 32bit or something generic, and the installer UI crashes all the time, so i cant proceed 15:51:25 er, not boot cd, a livecd. 15:51:34 try a livecd for 64 bit. 15:51:37 you see, i thought that too, but i did read it was possible! 15:51:48 it is the install/livecd 15:52:09 hrm. 15:52:18 Does Virtual Box claim to virtualize a 64-bit machine? 15:52:21 try something like the bluelightning bootcd? 15:52:26 er, livecd? 15:52:33 its a 64-bit-only livecd distro. 15:52:50 if it boots, you should be able to test :) 15:53:09 Riastradh: thats what I wanna find out, or if I am just chasing a dream here :p 15:53:31 Well, if you haven't told it to, it probably won't by default when running on a 32-bit host. 15:53:35 Starting with Version 2.1, you can even run 64-bit guests on a 32-bit host operating system, so long as you have sufficient hardware. 15:53:40 allegedly VirtualBox will run 64bit binaries on 32bit machines 15:53:42 quoted from there help 15:54:01 oh yeah, virtualbox supposedly can now. thats new. 15:54:05 virtualbox.org 15:54:43 (since late december. whoddathunkit.) 15:55:08 but is the amd64 version of ubuntu a generic 64 or amd specific? 15:55:26 'generic' 64? 15:55:32 do you mean generic x86 64? 15:55:34 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 15:55:45 well, one that works on both amd and intel 15:55:47 `You need a 64-bit processor with hardware virtualization support.' 15:55:51 (quoth the manual) 15:55:58 i have interl core 2 duo 15:56:51 Is that a 64-bit processor? 15:57:20 i believe so 15:57:39 And does it have Intel's hardware virtualization extensions, which you enabled explicitly? 15:57:46 can i type anything to find out? 15:57:57 cat /proc/cpuinfo 15:57:59 yeah thats enabled IIRC 15:58:26 (id imagine it would be one of the flags, but i could be wrong.) 15:59:14 i get 36 bit physical address size 15:59:23 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:59:26 let me check on 32 bit :) i love VM's 16:00:20 ok I dont get that entry... 16:01:20 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:02:43 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 16:06:47 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:06:58 mornin vixey. 16:07:17 hey elf! from #emacs right? cool 16:07:22 *elf* whacks vixey. 16:07:35 sorry just teasing I know you hate that :p 16:07:39 i know :) 16:08:27 one of these days i should show up on #emacs just to meet my dreaded counterpart. 16:08:53 fle? 16:09:02 e1f 16:09:09 lol 16:09:24 rotty_ [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 16:10:36 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-181-189.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:13:22 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:13:50 -!- mike is now known as Guest25814 16:15:56 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:19:08 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 16:19:18 -!- rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:56 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:23:44 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-147-67.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:24:27 tizoc [n=user@r190-133-162-140.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 16:25:30 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 16:25:36 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless157.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:27:45 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:59 -!- psYkoLo [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [] 16:30:20 langmart` [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 16:33:01 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:36:30 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 16:41:30 drdo__ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 16:43:09 elf: oh, no; you wouldn't want that 16:44:20 -!- Daemmeru` [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit ["Smoove out."] 16:45:57 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:53 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:49:08 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:49:42 lol 16:49:48 e1f is a nice person 16:49:51 don't kill him 16:54:05 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A1C39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:54:06 -!- drdo__ is now known as drdo 16:54:50 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 16:55:19 notByan [n=notByan@lackey.csl.mtu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:56:00 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:56:01 My professor requires me to use R5RS. How do I specify that in mzscheme? 16:56:15 He instructs us to use drscheme.. but I don't like it so much 16:56:25 plt-r5rs 16:56:41 notByan, if you use r5rs then any implementation should be fine 16:56:41 #lang plt-r5rs ? 16:57:00 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:57:06 notByan, so rather than mzscheme.. you could use SISC or chicken or anyway 16:57:06 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:57:08 anything 16:57:09 vixey: well, I am getting an error with R5RS on drscheme and no error on whatever mzscheme is working with 16:57:12 I think #lang R5RS in the file, and use plt-R5RS as the REPL. 16:57:28 REPL? >_> 16:57:36 oh 16:57:38 that.. 16:57:49 how do you specify that? 16:58:10 vixey: oh, are they better than mzscheme? 16:58:14 Run the command-line program "plt-R5RS" instead of "mzscheme". 16:59:02 foof: oh, ok 16:59:08 what does it default to anyway? 16:59:33 PLT's own language. 16:59:57 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 17:00:53 notByan: there's a menu somewhere in DrScheme for you to choose which language you're using. R5rs is in there somewhere 17:01:05 annoying that your prof made you use it but didn't tell you how 17:01:13 or just do all your work here! 17:01:15 rudybot: init r5rs 17:01:16 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 17:01:22 offby1: what? he wants us to use drscheme 17:01:28 I don't want to >_> 17:01:36 rudybot: eval (set-cdr! (cdr (cdr (cdr a))) (list 'a 'b 'c)) 17:01:36 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: a in module: 'program 17:02:20 rudybot: eval (let ((a ' ( ( ( huh))))) (set-cdr! (cdr (cdr (cdr a))) (list 'a 'b 'c))) 17:02:21 *offby1: error: mcdr: expects argument of type ; given () 17:02:28 pff 17:02:32 anyway. 17:02:34 alright then 17:02:34 notByan: what's bad in DrScheme? 17:02:35 check out the "Language" menu. 17:02:42 tr3: I like to use vim to edit.. 17:02:48 vim >.< 17:03:05 hw2.scm:52:0: define: not allowed in an expression context in: (define remove2nd (r5rs:lambda (l) (if (= (length l) 0) (quote ()) (cons (car l) (if (> (length l) 2) (cdr (cdr l)) (quote ())))))) 17:03:13 anyone wanna tell me why that is happening.. 17:03:38 idk 17:03:38 what the heck is r5rs:lambda ? 17:03:39 just try random stuff til it works 17:04:07 offby1: IDK, must be what my code evaluates to? thats not what I have coded 17:04:24 oh 17:04:32 if you were to show us what you typed, it'd be easier to help 17:04:38 alright 17:05:33 is there a pastebin with scheme syntax hilighting somehwere? 17:05:50 http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme 17:06:53 notByan pasted "hw2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74503 17:08:40 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A1C39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:09:18 any ideas? 17:09:36 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-11-112.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:09:45 notByan: I pasted that into the top part of DrScheme (which was set to r5rs, naturally), clicked the "run" button, and then typed (remove2nd (list 1 2 3)) in the bottom window and hit Return. It printed (1 3), which seems reasonable to me. 17:09:51 So you're not telling us enough. 17:09:55 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:10 o.O 17:10:27 let me try it 17:11:36 now I'm confused.. 17:12:36 hmm, so if I add a #lang scheme at the top.. 17:12:44 then the error happens.. 17:13:04 offby1: what exactly does the #lang do? 17:13:45 -!- Guest25814 [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:14:40 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A1C39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:15:03 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 17:16:26 notByan: It sets the language for the module. AFAIK, plt supports different languages (or at least different flavors of scheme) 17:16:38 ok.. 17:17:07 so, the question is.. what is the correct thing to put there 17:18:26 notByan: In fact #lang scheme should be that thing 17:19:08 Is the code on lisppaste the precise contents of the file you're trying to compile? 17:19:42 no.. but if you add a #lang scheme to the top of it, you'll get the same error 17:20:42 And what's the error again? 17:21:09 define: not allowed in an expression context in: (define remove2nd (r5rs:lambda (l) (if (= (length l) 0) (quote ()) (cons (car l) (if (> (length l) 2) (cdr (cdr l)) (quote ())))))) 17:21:36 Is there any code before this particular define 17:21:37 ? 17:22:13 Some schemes do like when all defines are put before expressions 17:22:59 yes, but if I make a file with just that define and a #lang scheme 17:22:59 jr92 [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:23:09 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:10 it still gives the same error, so thats not the problem 17:24:32 notByan: so don't put #lang scheme at the top :) 17:24:47 offby1: but if I do that.. then plt-r5rs doesn't do anything.. 17:24:52 -!- jr92 [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:25:22 oooh I thought you were using drscheme 17:26:00 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-181-189.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:26:08 I'm using it right now to try to figure this out 17:26:13 but I want to use mzscheme 17:26:28 ok. You realize that "plt-r5rs" _is_ mzscheme, right? 17:26:34 yeah 17:26:41 I just ran your thing with plt-r5rs, and it seems to work fine: 17:26:55 o.O 17:26:57 * I put (remove2nd (list 1 2 3)) at the end 17:27:04 * I typed "plt-r5rs notByan.ss" 17:27:10 * it printed (1 3) 17:27:12 what more do ya want?! 17:27:17 hmm 17:27:19 an interactive repl? 17:27:29 no, thats exactly what I want.. 17:27:32 and exactly what I don 17:27:33 t have 17:27:49 did you using #lang at all? 17:28:09 use* 17:28:26 nope 17:28:34 what version of mzscheme? 17:28:44 weird, if I don't use #lang, I get no output 17:29:03 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 17:29:19 did you put (remove2nd (list 1 2 3)) at the end as I did? 17:29:26 if not, then "no output" is -correct- 17:29:34 I put something similar 17:29:39 well, what? 17:29:45 (remove2nd '(1 2 3 4)) ;134 17:29:47 ok 17:30:03 and no # line at the top? And you typed "plt-r5rs prog.ss" at the command line? 17:30:19 Isn't it better to put (display (remove2nd (list 1 2 3))) at the end? 17:30:23 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless157.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:30:28 Just in case... 17:30:36 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:46 Mr-Cat: that's what I did when I invoked "mzscheme", but apparently it's not needed when you use plt-r5rs. 17:31:25 woo, another closure bug... 17:31:49 Mr-Cat: I can try that 17:31:59 offby1: it was hw2.scm 17:32:04 woops, need to check terms before typing 17:32:10 IDK if the scm matters.. thats what my prof is using 17:32:29 IDK? What's it? 17:32:30 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-TWENTY.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:32:32 no, the file name's extension won't matter 17:32:38 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 17:32:39 IDK == "I Don't Know" 17:32:41 "i don't know" usually" 17:32:50 Mr-Cat: you were right.. 17:32:58 I needed a display.. 17:33:12 offby1: you didn't need one.. 17:33:14 notByan: I bet we're using different versions. I didn't need the "display" 17:33:15 notByan: Glad, It helped 17:33:21 4.1.4 here 17:33:27 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A1C39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:33 Welcome to MzScheme v4.1 [3m] 17:35:05 well.. thats highly annoying 17:35:29 I'd write it up and ask on the PLT mailing list. 17:35:39 I'm not sure it's a bug, though, not having actually read the docs. 17:35:52 notByan: Well, take a look at the docs here: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/. 17:36:54 offby1: I bet you just did the things in a different way 17:37:04 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:37:08 offby1: paste the file? 17:37:10 Mr-Cat: could be. 17:37:18 we can test that 17:37:26 notByan: are you asking if I will paste the file? Not much point, since it's _your_ file 17:37:57 yeah, but, if you did something differently, wouldn't it be reflected in that file? 17:38:58 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 17:39:09 notByan: Not necessary. Maybe, you invoked mzscheme in a different way. 17:39:49 I invoked it by doing plt-r5rs file 17:39:52 same as him.. 17:39:59 maybe there is a conf file program.. 17:40:51 notByan: if you want to use vim, and you need drscheme also, then go to planet.plt-scheme.org and look for "drsync" 17:41:17 It's an extension of DrScheme that will make it reload the file whenever you edit it, so you can edit your code in vim and run it in drscheme. 17:41:19 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:44 thats not really what I want though.. 17:41:54 Why not? 17:42:06 because I can run mzscheme from inside vim.. 17:42:59 This is going to be much less useful if you're new to Scheme -- DrScheme has a lot fo useful features for the early stages of learning the language. 17:43:29 hmm, I haven't noticed that yet 17:43:31 Of course, you can insist on running mzscheme from inside vim -- but then you'd keep running into obscure problems that people who do that usually know how to deal with. 17:43:41 You haven't noticed what? 17:43:44 offby1: ping 17:43:48 anything helpful in drscheme 17:44:02 can you give me an example? 17:44:20 You can hit "check syntax", for example, and see where things are bound. 17:44:33 You can right click an identifier and jump to the documentation for it. 17:44:39 You can use the debugger. 17:45:04 You get real syntax-based colors (not a regexp-based approximation which is what Emacs and vim give you). 17:45:27 I haven't noticed any problems wit the syntax hilighting >_> 17:45:35 And you get the "run" button to execute your code from scratch, avoiding the temptation of keeping a repl. 17:45:42 Well, I'm very happy for you. 17:46:18 anyway.. 17:46:42 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:49 I find it weird that the same version of drscheme would not require a display while mzscheme would.. 17:46:58 hmm 17:47:14 -!- mike is now known as Guest29303 17:48:01 means I must be doing something wrong.. 17:48:07 In DrScheme you're using a *repl* -- with a `p'. If you just run "mzscheme " you just want to run the file, no repl. 17:48:34 doesn't it still use repl eitherway.. 17:48:36 jah [n=jah@200.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 17:48:49 No. 17:48:51 I mean.. you can type mzscheme without a file and you have an interactive prompt 17:49:04 -!- Guest29303 [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:49:06 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-TWENTY.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:49:10 -!- offby8 [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:49:30 weird, I was under the impression that thats how the interpreter works >_> 17:49:40 Yes, and you can type "mzscheme " and you don't get a repl. 17:49:51 Define "interpreter" please. 17:50:13 uhm.. a program that executes a script.. 17:50:49 So GCC is an interpreter too? 17:50:53 no 17:50:56 thats a compiler 17:51:14 And the difference is ...? 17:51:21 uhm.. 17:51:46 Yes? 17:51:47 with an interpreter: source code -> interpreter -> command emulation 17:52:01 with a compiler: source code -> compiler -> machine code runs directly on CPU 17:52:03 it's especially blurred because most "interpreters" used VMs as the backends 17:52:14 notByan: What's "command emulation"? 17:52:34 uhm.. it looks at what the script wants to do.. 17:52:36 and does it.. 17:52:44 the script is never ran in machine code.. 17:53:00 well, it eventually has to be machine code one way or the other ;-) 17:53:14 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 17:53:17 For example, MzScheme will read in source and byte-compile it -or- read byte-compiled code; then when you run a function it will *compile* the bytecode to machine code; and then it executes that machine code. 17:53:33 else you have anabacus :) 17:53:34 Does this mean that MzScheme does "command emulation" or that it is a "compiler"? 17:53:41 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-TWENTY.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:53:42 Actually, of modern languages, Ruby is still interpreted 17:53:54 even JS is VM backed 17:54:00 dammit; is the perfect passive participle of output "output" or "outputted"? 17:54:01 eli: I wan't aware that mzscheme did just in time compilation 17:54:10 "outpat" 17:54:40 the difference is the represatation, an interpretation is bound to a process where the compiled form is not (normally) 17:54:57 notByan: (a) it does, (b) it shouldn't matter, (c) especially if you're *studying* scheme you should not even look at these questions. 17:55:28 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 17:55:30 so, wait, why are we argueing about this 17:55:31 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-TWENTY.MIT.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:58 I'm not arguing. 17:56:07 we're doing something >_> 17:56:10 I thought it was a socratic dialog 17:56:11 (In the traditional sense of "argue", at least.) 17:56:15 that isn't helping my problem 17:56:28 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-67-218.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 17:57:01 notByan: The conversation (with me) started with a reference to some difference between running MzScheme (and getting a repl), or running it over a file (and not getting one). 17:57:13 mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:57:18 well, eitherway, I don't really care to use a repl.. 17:57:30 Why? it's great for rapid testing/prototyping 17:57:39 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.244.176] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:57:40 plus, it solves your (P)rint issue 17:57:41 notByan: In that case you will need to explicitly print values with `write'. 17:57:58 eli: but if I don't use plt-r5rs, I don't have to.. 17:58:17 if I do mzscheme then it prints it out without a display 17:58:22 chupish: see above when I said "temptation of keeping a repl" -- it can lead to some very confusing problems. 17:58:36 oh, I know, I know 17:58:48 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 17:58:52 I wonder what happens if I pipe the file instead.. 17:58:54 notByan: When you run `mzscheme' you get the default mzscheme language -- in this language, any toplevel expression that is not a definition will have its value printed. 17:58:59 drdo__ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 17:59:44 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:59:52 notByan if you pipe the file you'll get the REPL, with stdin set to p[1] 18:00:00 yeah, so, that works.. 18:00:04 hmm 18:00:21 notByan: BTW, you have started to ask about this an hour ago -- that's an hour that you spent on an issue that you wouldn't have if you'd use DrScheme. This demonstrates one of the advantage that I mentioned earlier. 18:00:47 I have nothing better to do right now though =p 18:00:48 mr-slave: ping 18:00:48 *eli: pong 18:01:14 notByan: Assuming there's some textbook in your course, you can read that. 18:01:32 there isn't 18:01:46 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-69.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:02:10 If I am in SYNTAX-CASE and I have a pattern variable that I want to evaluate, what can I do? 18:02:15 Then read SICP, or HtDP, or TSPL, or LiSP, or something. 18:02:31 arcfide: you don't, of course. 18:02:47 eli: in any case, I don't find drscheme enjoyable.. 18:02:53 Little Schemer 18:02:58 investing time to get enjoyment out of my homework is worth it imo 18:03:01 eli: I'm trying to take some expression that someone has given me and evaluate it at expansion time. 18:03:27 Something like (let ([val pattern]) ...) inside a syntax-case clause. 18:03:36 Where pattern is the pattern variable. 18:03:36 arcfide: Why? -- That's exactly the doorway to hell that separate phases in PLT is trying to keep shut. 18:04:00 drdo___ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:04:10 eli: I want to evaluate some code at expansion time and bind the results to values that are available at run time. 18:04:27 IOW, this is exactly the kind of macro-expansion-that-depends-on-runtime-values that lead to loading-order issues and a bunch of other such problems. 18:04:39 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:17 anyway, I still don't understand why offby1 doesn't have my issue =/ 18:05:24 arcfide: The only, uh, "reliable" way to do that is to use `eval'. 18:06:07 eli: What do you suggest I do? Say I have a large set of data that I want to use to generate some sort of compressed tables for use in my code at run time. However, I do not want the run time code to be accessing this data (stored in a file), but rather, I want the resulting data to be embedded into the compiled code. How would I do this? 18:06:37 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:37 arcfide: So you have some macro that is supposed to generate some stuff at syntax-expansion time, as a form of optimization or hiding that information from compiled code? 18:07:50 arcfide: with-syntax perhaps? 18:08:53 eli: Well, for example, let's say I have a large table that I want to use for lookups. The tables are stored in some file, but these files shouldn't be distributed with the code. The code should be self contained. So, when an user runs the code, the tables are embedded into the runtime code. 18:09:08 Then I suspect that what you want is something in the direction that leppie mentioned -- you actually want a macro that expands to syntax-level code (IOW, a macro that expands to macro code). 18:09:50 That is, you don't want (let ([x 1]) (your-macro x)) and (let ([x 2]) (your-macro x)) to expand in different ways, right? 18:09:50 yes. 18:10:22 I think this is right. 18:10:31 You can look into PLT's `begin-for-syntax' -- roughly speaking, you want a macro that expands to just that. 18:10:41 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:10:46 -!- langmart` [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:51 That's specific to PLT, but it's actually implemented using something like `with-syntax'. 18:10:57 Daemmerung [n=goetter@74-61-30-33.sea.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #scheme 18:11:12 The main property of `with-syntax' is that it evaluates the RHS expressions at syntax time. 18:11:41 (And BTW, `with-syntax' is implemented using something else, probably `let-syntax' -- which is also doing the same kind of shot-circuiting.) 18:11:57 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 18:12:41 arcfide pasted "What I have right now" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74510 18:12:45 That's what I have now. 18:12:48 Roughly. 18:12:55 arcfide: The last comment I have about this is that for a specific example you can look at the PLT `sgl' collection: it does something like that to get a compiled file that has information about the GL library's types, and that information is created (and embedded into the compiled code) at compile-time. 18:13:38 -!- isomer`` is now known as isomer 18:15:16 arcfide: That looks like a start that has the confusion I talked about. 18:15:32 Specifically, the `rhs' is still at the user level. 18:15:54 eli: This is a helper syntax. It is used on the right hand side of LET-SYNTAX clauses. 18:15:59 Binding clauses, even. 18:16:10 Actually, hold on one second. 18:16:36 So: (let-syntax ([val (instantiate-rhs x)]) ...). 18:17:27 arcfide: It just hit me that you probably want something I did not too long ago. 18:18:46 It's a rough hack that does what it should do, and has some PLTisms, but it might be closer than `begin-for-syntax' than what you want. 18:18:47 http://svn.plt-scheme.org/plt/trunk/collects/scheme/private/at-syntax.ss 18:18:54 Disclaimers included in the file. 18:19:00 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 18:19:00 "don't do it, don't do it, oh wait, I did that, here it is" ;-) 18:19:26 -!- drdo__ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:46 -!- Grimmjow_Lap [n=chatzill@c-69-250-158-95.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 18:20:00 chupish: Well, the original phrasing was something that should not be done. And see the disclaimers in that file too. 18:21:11 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:21:21 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 18:22:09 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:37 -!- drdo___ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:22:39 -!- mike is now known as Guest17899 18:23:58 you need a disclaimer for all the typos! ;P 18:24:08 eli: sheesh, it was totally tongue-in-cheek. 18:24:20 monadium [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 18:24:57 -!- monadium [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:17 i think psyntax provides something like compile-time-value nowadays, but never had the need for it 18:25:50 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:26:55 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:27:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-67-218.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:27:49 chupish: tongue-in-cheek or not, it's a very important part of the language... 18:28:03 hmm i think that local-expand is similar to what I recently requested for aziz to add, but could not find a good example 18:29:57 leppie: Well, a good example for this is really hard to find. I just added that file to plt recently because it was needed for something rather exotic. 18:30:15 eli: I've no issue with the linguistic point; I thought the cycle was funny, that's all 18:30:27 Fair enough. 18:31:05 mr-slave: eval (require scheme/require) 18:31:16 mr-slave: for leppie doc filtered-in 18:31:20 leppie: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: scheme/require 18:31:31 Bah. 18:32:08 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 18:32:14 leppie: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/require.html and look for `filtered-in' -- that's practically the single place I needed for that. 18:32:26 (I needed that for) 18:32:47 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:33:40 the idea i had was more R6RS orientated, using eval, but providing a '(local-environment)' as the environment 18:34:10 otherwise, what about Brown Sugar Cafe ? 18:34:14 gah! 18:34:18 so an environment with everything in scope 18:34:20 Thanks Eli. 18:34:21 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-69.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:34:58 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:13 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-54-23.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 18:35:44 my use would be strictly for tab completion at the moment :) 18:36:11 not sure how well it would work 18:36:25 Daemmeru` [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 18:37:00 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@74-61-30-33.sea.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:25 or no it wont work for that, thats why I never persued it... 18:37:35 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-211-166-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 18:39:43 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 18:42:17 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-211-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:47 if anyone cares, this is the solution I came to 18:45:47 command Mz !plt-r5rs < % | sed -e 's/^\(> \)*//g' | less 18:45:58 It's a horrible solution >_> but, it works 18:46:57 *eli* sighs 18:50:43 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:51:28 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:53:51 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:55:34 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057F27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:56 wow notByan, that's uh 18:57:47 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-54-23.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:01:39 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:02:03 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:03:58 -!- incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:56 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 19:06:17 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:00 -!- Guest17899 [n=mike@dslb-088-067-017-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:13:48 C'est spéciale. 19:14:33 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 19:14:36 -!- jah [n=jah@200.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:14:42 s/le/l/ -- "C'" is neutral i.e. masculine, not feminine. 19:15:22 Et le mot s'accorde en genre et en nombre. 19:15:34 (Thanky. I's never seen it in writin'.) 19:15:37 *gnomon* flashes back to grade school 19:16:07 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:16:13 *Daemmerung* écoutes und répetes, or something like that 19:18:25 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:19:35 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 19:19:59 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:21:22 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:21:34 offby1: ping 19:21:51 Daemmerung, it's odd to talk of yourself in the second person. 19:22:02 (as the "s" indicates) 19:22:14 Is it also odd to use the word 'und' in a French sentence? ;) 19:22:35 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:22:46 dudrenov [n=user@h-67-101-217-41.snfccasy.covad.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:53 gnomon, not since 1941. 19:23:03 ach! 19:23:13 Fare: we usually use the first person plural. 19:23:56 (I averaged the first person of /me and the third person, it seems.) 19:24:48 *Daemmerung* surrenders 19:25:33 surrender -- I wonder where the English got that word from :) 19:25:39 gnomon: my grade school French was longer ago than most persons on this channel have been alive.... 19:29:38 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 19:36:22 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 19:37:32 incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:41:30 forcer [n=forcer@g224066213.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:42:44 offby1: ping 19:42:53 choas [n=lars@p5B0DD989.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:23 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 19:45:25 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:47:29 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:52:21 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:57:30 drdo__ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:00:21 -!- tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:01:12 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-68-101.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 20:03:38 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:05:18 saccade_ [n=saccade@MCNAIR-TWO-NINETY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:05:19 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:06:56 could someone point me in the right direction for learning how to write scheme code that generates/modifies scheme code? 20:08:29 generating is easy 20:08:30 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@MCNAIR-TWO-NINETY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:36 modification -- what do you mean? 20:09:07 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:09:16 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:09:58 Fare: taking a arbitrary expression and modifying it in-place 20:10:03 -!- rfgpfeiffer_ [n=rfgpfeif@e178242113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 20:10:25 or inspecting it, for starters 20:11:44 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:13:01 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 20:13:04 pizza_, modifying an expression in-place won't do you much good unless your evaluator propagates the change 20:13:10 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:13:20 -!- bsmntbombgirl is now known as bsmntbombdood 20:13:24 there was some lisp dialect that did it... polysomething lisp 20:13:38 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [] 20:13:50 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:57 ok, well i'm just looking for some general information on how to inspect and generate s-expressions 20:13:58 most evaluators don't decompile either. It's mostly one way from source code to unspecified black box binary 20:14:15 try the EMACS tutorial 20:15:27 in CL, you might look at macroexpand-1 20:18:16 there are quite a few emacs tutorials, which one? 20:18:41 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 20:20:03 i can't seem to find any concrete examples of actual code generation 20:20:23 how to generate s-expressions 20:20:33 CONS 20:20:40 next question. 20:20:50 drdo___ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:20:54 How to generaty lists? 20:21:02 :p 20:21:07 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:05 -!- drdo__ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:02 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:28:48 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057F27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:30:01 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:32:47 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:32:52 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:33:49 pizza_: *the* emacs tutorial? C-h t? 20:33:57 pizza_: to generate an s-expression, you either generate an atom, or type "(" generate a list of s-expressions separated by whitespace, then type ")". 20:36:11 proq: i don't have emacs, yet :/ 20:36:32 the method works with any text editor 20:36:39 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:37:05 looks like you need the Little Lisper... 20:37:20 Little Schemer 20:37:21 Fare: give him the formal BNF grammer 20:37:53 pizza_: well, what's stopping you :) 20:38:06 Actually, if LiSP wasn't so expensive, LiSP 20:38:16 sorry for the boneheaded questions, i haven't written any lisp in a long time, i'm starting to figure things out 20:38:24 proq: the 20MB binary download ;) 20:39:08 You managed to find a computer on which emacs doesn't already exist?! 20:39:10 Crikey. 20:39:33 gnomon: at work all the servers don't have emacs. 20:39:44 well if it's ubuntu, just apt-get install and come back later 20:39:46 I have to force them to install it. 20:40:00 dudrenov, are you referring to production application servers?' 20:40:01 I am the only emacs user in a horde of vi fans. 20:40:07 sounds familiar 20:40:23 Even production and local dev boxes. 20:41:09 ok, it's done installing 20:41:16 i'm taking the plunge; i'm scared 20:41:34 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 20:41:35 proq: ; Value: (1 . 2) 20:41:43 pizza_: ^ there you go 20:42:16 proq: yes, i figure it out, thanks 20:43:23 rudybot: tell rudybot eval (cons 1 2) 20:43:23 Fare: ? 20:43:37 rudybot: eval (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) 20:43:37 proq: ; Value: (1 2 3) 20:43:43 rudybot: (eval (cons '+ (cons '1 (cons '2 '())))) 20:43:43 pizza_: ? 20:43:50 I thought emacs binaries were more in the 5.89824e37 byte range 20:44:15 maybe he's using ports 20:44:26 *portage 20:44:26 no idea, always built it from source. 20:44:57 zbigniew, nah, this is emacs 23, so only in the 1e23 byte range. 20:44:57 i'm using debian's apt-get 20:46:44 rudybot: eval (cons cons (cons 'lotsa-cons 'and-more-cons!)) 20:46:45 proq: ; Value: (# lotsa-cons . and-more-cons!) 20:47:13 sorry, got carried away 20:47:27 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 20:47:53 -!- drdo___ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:54 rudybot: eval (cons '+ (cons '1 (cons '2 '()))) 20:47:55 pizza_: ; Value: (+ 1 2) 20:48:12 rudybot: (cons (quote cons) (cons cons (quote quote))) 20:48:12 Fare: ? 20:48:18 rudybot: eval (cons (quote cons) (cons cons (quote quote))) 20:48:19 Fare: ; Value: (cons # . quote) 20:48:50 rudybot: eval (spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam) 20:48:50 zbigniew: ; Value: eggs 20:48:54 rudybot: eval '(+ 1 2) 20:48:55 Fare: ; Value: (+ 1 2) 20:52:05 rudybot: eval (eval (cons '+ (cons '1 (cons '2 '())))) 20:52:05 pizza_: ; Value: 3 20:52:27 I have a faster version! 20:52:30 rudybot: eval 3 20:52:30 Fare: ; Value: 3 20:52:46 Rudybot supports arity-1 eval?? I am surprised. 20:53:03 and a slower version: 20:53:11 rudybot: eval (eval (eval (eval (eval eval)))) 20:53:12 klutometis: ; Value: # 20:53:18 rudybot: eval (eval (eval (eval (eval (eval (eval 3)))))) 20:53:19 Fare: ; Value: 3 20:53:42 *Daemmerung* sees YO DAWGs everywhere 20:53:47 heh 20:54:02 but can you see the FNORDs ? 20:54:03 Daemmerung: you're always up on the latest memes, dude 20:54:18 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:54:47 Fare: yes, I see the s. 20:55:26 :) 20:55:45 Comes right between 'r' and 't'. I know my alphabet! You can't fool me. 20:57:48 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 21:00:31 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:27 Daemmerung, http://fare.livejournal.com/16866.html 21:03:36 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DD989.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:04:12 Heh. Cute. 21:06:05 antoszka [n=antoszka@2001:6a0:14a:0:0:0:0:dada] has joined #scheme 21:08:43 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:09:02 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:05 -!- sandGorgon [n=user@122.162.142.236] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:09:28 I wrote a few other posts about FNORD (see tag). 21:13:02 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 21:14:31 hmm, They Live! 21:15:37 rudybot: random 1.0 21:15:38 pizza_: ? 21:15:47 sjamaan, :) 21:16:03 rudybot: eval (random 1.0) 21:16:03 samth: error: random: expects argument of type ; given 1.0 21:16:10 rudybot: eval (random 1) 21:16:10 samth: ; Value: 0 21:16:14 rudybot: eval (random 1) 21:16:14 samth: ; Value: 0 21:16:16 rudybot: eval (random 1) 21:16:16 samth: ; Value: 0 21:16:20 rudybot: eval (random 2) 21:16:20 samth: ; Value: 1 21:16:33 rudybot: (random 4294967087) 21:16:34 pizza_: ? 21:16:51 rudybot: eval (random 4294967087) 21:16:51 pizza_: ; Value: 1215517589 21:17:45 rudybot: eval (random 4294967088) 21:17:46 Fare: error: random: expects argument of type ; given 4294967088 21:18:07 -!- chupish [n=sedwards@waffle.aip.org] has quit ["leaving"] 21:18:20 rudybot: eval (random) 21:18:21 Daemmerung: ; Value: 0.39198143024280147 21:22:37 rudybot: eval (display foo) 21:22:37 proq: ; stdout: "1" 21:22:46 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:22:48 rudybot: eval (display foo) 21:22:48 proq: ; stdout: "2" 21:23:12 rudybot: eval (foo 1 2) 21:23:12 proq: ; Value: (1 2) 21:23:23 lovely 21:23:59 incubot: yo dawg i herd you like cars so we put a car in your car so you can caar while you cdr 21:24:01 i herd it doesn't implement real tail recursion 21:24:33 incubot: you are correct, yo dawg is not in tail position 21:24:35 I'm currently digging through the compiler sources to see where it transforms non-tail calls into tail calls. 21:25:08 incubot: I applied biomimicry to my car, and thus put a car factory in the trunk 21:25:10 Lets assume you have a class with some private vars and methods. You want to be able create a func that is a class factory. Which basically creates a new context and wrapper funcs to the each original method on when make each instance. The wrapper func also binds the instance vars to the newly created context. 21:27:48 Thus quoth R5RS 3.5: "Certain built-in procedures are also required to perform tail calls.... Similarly, YO DAWG must evaluate its argument as if it were in tail position within the YO DAWG procedure." 21:29:15 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:30:58 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:35:57 -!- jmo- [n=jmo-@83.233.243.145] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:03 kraant [n=kraant@CPE-58-161-128-2.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 21:51:21 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:52:12 News flash, R5RS is the past. 21:53:30 This just in: Planet earth is 6000 years old, time to move on. 21:54:10 :) 21:54:42 who cares about R^nRS anyway? 21:54:52 you'll be tied to an implementation anyway 21:54:57 drdo_, I d 21:54:58 drdo_, I do 21:55:29 vixey: I would do too if it was extensive enough 21:55:33 drdo_, I tend to use R5RS + whatever extra stuff I feel like _taking_ from the implementation 21:55:56 but regardless of whether you use it or not, it's a very good reference 21:55:57 How can i define a new type in R5RS? 21:56:12 drdo_, are you asking a question you know the answer to? 21:56:17 i don't 21:56:23 I think i can't but i may be wrong 21:56:26 just use lists 21:56:47 ( ...> 21:56:49 vixey: how would you test for that type? 21:56:50 ( ...>) 21:57:23 they left that out, i feel that's very important 21:57:32 ok so you did know the answer already 21:57:47 i thought i did 21:57:49 vixey: nonsense; you can augment the genealogy from creation through solomon, ezra and up through jesus and establish an age of at least 10,000 years 21:57:52 -!- mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:03 and without that it doesn't make much sense to define methods either 21:58:11 klutometis, well I'm just making a conservative estimate 21:59:46 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 21:59:53 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:11 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:00:38 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:17 drdo_: there are many things not present in R5RS. Nevertheless, it abides. 22:02:08 You are welcome to review R6's record system(s) and draw your own conclusions. 22:02:11 drdo_, the thing I would like most is some kind of module system btw 22:02:36 drdo_, R5RS + module system seems pretty sensible.. not sure why you would want to define new data types especially though 22:03:27 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:03:58 I thought the Earth was created last Thursday. 22:04:45 That's not what the angel Moroni told me, but whatevar. 22:06:12 dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:06:34 that's what you get for answering your cellphone when it says "Utah" in caller id 22:06:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_(theology)#Other_formulations 22:09:22 *zbigniew* contemplates his omphalos 22:09:45 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:05 silentOpen [n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-NINE-FORTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:10:32 Ah, an omphaloskeptic. 22:10:35 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:10:35 *zbigniew* defenestrates his Oompa Loompa 22:10:39 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 22:11:17 minion: chant 22:11:18 MORE IMPORTANT 22:11:28 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:11:36 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 22:12:37 -!- dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #scheme 22:12:55 minion: chant 22:12:55 MORE GENERAL 22:13:00 minion: chant 22:13:01 MORE GENERAL 22:13:54 incubot, who is the oldest and wisest of the surviving bots? 22:13:56 a bit of civil disobedience now and then, is relished by the wisest men. 22:14:03 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:08 WTF-- 22:14:24 this has now passed Turing by about 3 or 4 parsecs. 22:14:43 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:58 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:58 Garbage in, garbage out. 22:15:27 win 2 22:15:29 oops 22:15:29 ("Garbot" would be another fine bot name.) 22:15:37 That was uncanny. 22:15:50 Just like the X-Men. 22:16:10 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 22:16:11 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:17:07 minion: add incubot as http://home.att.net/~tom.brodhead/wonka.htm 22:17:08 OK, done. 22:21:12 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:21:26 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:23:39 -!- Eleanore [n=a@c213-100-35-238.swipnet.se] has quit ["aoeu"] 22:26:03 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 22:27:05 rudybot: chant 22:27:06 proq: ? 22:27:20 rudybot: eval chant 22:27:20 proq: ; Value: # 22:27:32 rudybot: ed 22:27:32 zbigniew: ? 22:27:40 rudybot: eval chant 22:27:41 proq: ; Value: "more tea" 22:27:48 rudybot: eat flaming death 22:27:48 zbigniew: ? 22:27:58 rudybot: ^C 22:27:58 zbigniew: ? 22:28:29 rudybot: eval (chant) 22:28:29 proq: ; stdout: "more tea" 22:29:00 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:32:25 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:36:10 incubot: chant 22:36:12 how will minion chant three words? 22:37:01 minion: chant 22:37:02 MORE TO DO 22:38:21 minion: chant 22:38:22 MORE TO DO 22:41:21 fingo [n=g8veytsm@b3185-21.cdf.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 22:41:39 Hello everyone 22:41:42 kraant_ [n=kraant@CPE-58-161-128-2.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:43:18 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:33 -!- kraant [n=kraant@CPE-58-161-128-2.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:43:35 I don't know if anyone here can answer this question, but here goes: does anyone know of any Scheme based projects that are planning on participating in GSOC09. I'm shopping around for projects and so far I have found the NYC Lisp users group, but nothing else. Any ideas? 22:44:17 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:50:29 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:50:54 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:59 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:51:18 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 22:56:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-68-101.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:51 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:58:47 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 23:00:42 -!- drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:00:42 drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:02:02 drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:02:31 psYkoLo [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 23:04:34 geckosen1tor [n=sean@68.73.98.69] has joined #scheme 23:07:18 jberg [n=moo@77.16.102.211.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #scheme 23:07:31 -!- psYkoLo is now known as Gorgoroth 23:07:48 has anyone read the reasoned schemer? it looks good, just want to know what others think of it 23:08:19 best book ever 23:08:25 . 23:08:29 cool! 23:08:57 what does it say? 23:09:13 jberg, it's about a logic programming system and its embedding in scheme 23:09:27 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:09:59 yep 23:10:25 but okay, i will buy it for sure then 23:11:12 -!- fingo [n=g8veytsm@b3185-21.cdf.toronto.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:18:23 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:18:33 -!- drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:24:18 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:28:59 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-172.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:32:00 I like Essentials Of Programming Languages. 23:34:06 -!- drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:34:07 pizza___ [n=pizza_@ool-457e7c9d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:16 -!- gcopenhaver [n=greg@c-71-206-116-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:42:52 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:44:24 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:45:06 incubot: chant 23:45:08 tell arcus minion: chant 23:45:39 fingo: chicken applied last year as was denied. maybe they'll try again? 23:46:21 Why were they denied? 23:46:36 dudrenov: not sure; not mature, not interesting, etc. 23:46:44 not Python 23:46:46 python projects come first; lisp is somewhere way down there 23:46:49 heh 23:46:49 Daemmerung: exactly 23:46:54 jinx, dude. 23:47:35 incubot: Who is The Stig? 23:47:37 Could be coz' scheme to C compiler is not really a new thing I guess. 23:54:57 -!- mariorz [n=mariorz@li10-58.members.linode.com] has left #scheme 23:55:41 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@95.34.27.156.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["raise Hand, 'wave'"] 23:56:38 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["There exists an infinite set!"] 23:59:21 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]