00:00:26 dmoerner pasted "Infinite Loop?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74006 00:00:56 i'm just starting to learn about assignment, and i'm having trouble understanding why calling z as defined in the above post produces an infinitely long set 00:01:06 could anyone help explain it? 00:03:21 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:03:40 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@64.213.79.190] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:05:38 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF0AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 00:05:42 dmoerner, Z is not an `infinitely long set'; it is a cyclic list. In some Scheme systems, if you try to print it (e.g., by typing `z' at the REPL prompt), the system will print an opening round bracket and then each successive car of the list until nil -- which in this case is never reached, because the list's cdrs repeat upon themselves. 00:09:47 Riastradh: thanks for clarification of the correct terminology, on my implementation it actually prints something like #1=(a b c . #1#). but I'm curious why the list's cdr's repeat upon themselves. 00:12:08 Because you set the cdr of one of the pairs to be an earlier pair in the list. 00:12:30 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:12:37 oh. for some reason when you said it like that it just clicked. thanks 00:13:11 damn just when I had the perfect explanation 00:13:46 i guess you'll just have to save it for later haha 00:14:51 no I'm kidding :) 00:15:35 "When you do the thing with the thing and you take the thing then the thing is, it's infinitely long." 00:17:03 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 00:35:50 -!- onox [n=onox@kalfjeslab.demon.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 00:36:08 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 00:36:10 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:36:13 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:36:14 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:36:23 Kaell [n=none@146.187.130.93] has joined #scheme 00:37:20 Hello, I've read (and was under the impression this was the case) that addition in scheme was binary (arity-2) thus requiring exactly 2 arguments. However many examples (and the DrScheme interpreter) allow for, for ex: (+ 1 2 3 4 5) and works just fine 00:38:50 r5rs + 00:38:50 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_278 00:38:52 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ak4caw 00:42:13 thank you 00:43:04 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-144-230.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 00:43:56 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-134-97.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:43:59 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 00:47:58 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:48:38 -!- Kaell [n=none@146.187.130.93] has left #scheme 00:51:00 it's great to see the bots working together 00:53:01 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:53:01 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.162.53] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:53:01 -!- attila_lendvai 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[n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 01:06:21 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 01:06:25 -!- isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:06:53 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:07:18 Daemmerung: dammit, man: you're the only cat I've seen to use `poetaster' unsarcastically 01:07:27 rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-161-3.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:47 it's my favorite word alongsid politicaster, programmicaster, etc. 01:08:07 wow, I missed something important 01:08:09 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 01:11:32 pjb3_ [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:52 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:23:44 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:24:21 AtomicToad 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[n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 05:33:02 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:48 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:37:36 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:38:14 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 05:41:28 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit ["vanishes to bed"] 05:44:15 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:45:27 Looks like the only reasonable candidate for the Steering Committee is Rees. 05:46:22 hikoz [n=hikoz@27.183.244.43.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:47:44 he can use both hands? 05:51:53 He's not a wanker, if that's what you mean... 05:53:04 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:54:02 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [] 06:07:02 Do you have an eval bot here? 06:08:09 nicholasw [n=nw@ckc-109-118.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #scheme 06:08:19 rudybot: eval (display "no") 06:08:20 foof: ; stdout: "no" 06:09:31 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:11:48 The people @ ##sicp were wishing for an eval bot 06:14:29 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:15:48 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 06:16:21 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:16:28 rudybot: eval (display ((lambda (x) (* x x)) 2)) 06:16:29 nicholasw: ; stdout: "4" 06:16:47 cool! 06:22:54 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:23:30 nicholasw: rudybot is PLT scheme; that's a little different than SICP 06:25:16 rudybot: eval (display (((lambda (procedure) (lambda (n) (if (= n 0) 1 (* n ((procedure procedure) (- n 1)))))) (lambda (procedure) (lambda (n) (if (= n 0) 1 (* n ((procedure procedure) (- n 1))))))) 3) ) 06:25:16 nicholasw: ; stdout: "6" 06:25:23 still cool though! 06:25:43 What's the difference between PLT scheme and whats in SICP? 06:37:10 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:39:35 nicholasw: piety 06:41:08 haha 06:42:44 -!- troter [n=troter@EM114-48-216-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:43:14 What happens if I use him to calculate a billion factorial? 06:44:15 Try it! 06:44:21 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) 06:44:24 X-Scale: error: with-limit: out of time 06:44:30 :) 06:44:47 The old Scheme Quine 06:46:49 X-Scale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine_(computing) 06:48:42 oh yes...I missed the lists & quotes...thanks 06:49:08 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))) '(lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x)))) 06:49:08 X-Scale: ; Value: ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) 07:00:04 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-166-177.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:00:56 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:19:09 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:20:18 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:25:17 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:26:05 jah [n=jah@86.76.56.140] has joined #scheme 07:27:59 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:37:11 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 07:37:55 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:29 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:45:16 rudybot: With X#, Hundreds of Functions Become Four Simple Operations 08:01:35 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:23:27 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-118-219.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:24:50 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 08:27:08 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.21] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:36:03 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 08:36:26 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:49:45 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 08:53:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["*bork bork*"] 09:00:21 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF26A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:10:55 -!- eno__ 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Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!"] 10:35:35 GA's are so fun when they work :) 10:38:51 tonyg [n=tonyg@82.152.172.241] has joined #scheme 10:40:04 -!- hikoz [n=hikoz@27.183.244.43.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 10:46:05 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #scheme 10:46:06 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:15 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has quit [] 10:58:32 -!- tonyg [n=tonyg@82.152.172.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:30:38 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:31:06 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 11:41:51 General anaesthetics? 11:52:20 -!- jah [n=jah@86.76.56.140] has quit ["Quitte"] 12:00:33 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-165-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:09 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-165-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 12:03:23 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 12:08:47 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 12:09:01 luz [n=davids@201.19.31.105] has joined #scheme 12:11:44 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:14:57 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:17:07 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 12:17:47 -!- mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has left #scheme 12:22:22 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 12:24:46 mib_sr34qq16 [i=c341330e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/session] has joined #scheme 12:25:31 -!- Jarvellis is now known as jdarvelis 12:25:51 -!- jdarvelis is now known as djarvelis 12:26:47 hi there! is the right place to ask questions about SICP exercises? 12:27:48 sure 12:27:54 There's also ##sicp 12:28:13 ah ok thanks 12:33:26 -!- mib_sr34qq16 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timed out)] 14:22:10 davids [n=davids@201.29.150.9] has joined #scheme 14:23:04 -!- luz [n=davids@201.19.31.105] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23:44 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:26:01 -!- Jarvellis is now known as djarvelis 14:29:42 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 14:32:02 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.95.51] has joined #scheme 14:33:16 ##sicp? 14:33:24 *eli* sighs 14:33:50 lol 14:34:54 46 users in ##sicp 14:35:10 ##sicp is the y combinator book club 14:35:44 I guess I should go there and suggest they split ##sicp to sub-channels by chapters. 14:35:48 ###sicp - the channel where people discuss the people in ##sicp, who are discussing the book, which discusses the algorithmic language Scheme - which itself is discussed in #scheme. 14:35:55 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:03 Maybe even by page. 14:36:13 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #scheme 14:36:26 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:36:35 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:44 eli, no, no - it should be split up by logical text unit, i.e. paragraphs, not pages! 14:36:54 And there ought to be break-out channels to discuss each diagram and illustration. 14:36:55 *foof* votes for morphemes 14:37:03 Possibly for each footnote, too. 14:37:28 And of course by every problem, further sub-divided by function names. 14:38:01 *eli* plans on an IRC feature that will move you through channels depending on where your browser is. 14:38:09 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 14:38:29 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 14:39:11 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:40:02 rudybot: eval (define (add x y z) (list (+ x y z) (+ (+ x y) z) (+ x (+ y z)))) 14:40:18 rudybot: eval (add 10e20 -10e20 10e2) 14:40:18 mejja: ; Value: (1000.0 1000.0 0.0) 14:42:05 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:42:39 how did you do that o_o 14:43:07 It'a a known floating point gotcha. 14:43:24 rudybot: eval (add 1000000000000000000000 1/1000000000000000000000 1000) 14:43:24 vixey: error: reference to undefined identifier: add 14:43:31 rudybot: eval (define (add x y z) (list (+ x y z) (+ (+ x y) z) (+ x (+ y z)))) 14:43:33 rudybot: eval (add 1000000000000000000000 1/1000000000000000000000 1000) 14:43:33 vixey: ; Value: (1000000000000000001000000000000000000000001/1000000000000000000000 1000000000000000001000000000000000000000001/1000000000000000000000 1000000000000000001000000000000000000000001/1000000000000000000000) 14:43:54 rudybot: eval (add 1000000000000000000000 (- 1000000000000000000000) 1000) 14:43:54 vixey: ; Value: (1000 1000 1000) 14:45:42 eval (add #e10e20 #e-10e20 #e10e2) 14:45:46 rudybot: eval (add #e10e20 #e-10e20 #e10e2) 14:45:47 foof: error: reference to undefined identifier: add 14:46:00 rudybot: eval (define (add x y z) (list (+ x y z) (+ (+ x y) z) (+ x (+ y z)))) 14:46:02 rudybot: eval (add #e10e20 #e-10e20 #e10e2) 14:46:02 foof: ; Value: (1000 1000 1000) 14:47:02 oh cool 14:47:52 *eli* pokes offby1 14:49:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:54:12 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:54:34 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:56:45 foof, remember that the steering committee does not write the report; it only chooses members for the author^Weditor committee (and prods them if nothing is happening). 14:56:59 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 14:57:17 Riastradh: Yep, I'm well aware of that. 15:00:58 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 15:11:45 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:17:53 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:20:53 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.95.51] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:23:46 jah [n=jah@140.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 15:23:57 -!- jah [n=jah@140.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:41 -!- geckosen1tor [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:57 kerz [n=Banano@24.139.152.73] has joined #scheme 15:44:35 -!- troter [n=troter@EM114-48-139-204.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:45:45 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:53:05 -!- mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:53:53 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:00:31 *offby1* unpokes 16:01:23 *offby1* bets eli is gonna say "4.1.4 is out; why not upgrade rudybot" 16:02:03 *elly* has 4.1.4 installed on one machine and is watching it finish compiling on another 16:02:37 -!- gepon [n=taro@FLH1Aig081.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:03:19 *offby1* tried to build 4.1.4 on rudybot's new cheap hosting box, but it ran outta memory -- $10/month apparently does get you swap space 16:03:26 s/does/doesn't/ 16:03:39 odd, since I built a recent svn pull with no problem 16:06:32 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-73.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:10:17 4.1.4 is still building on my server 16:10:27 it's a 900mhz p3 and it's been building PLT for nearly an hour 16:12:02 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-165-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:13:16 offby1: re compilation, you can use `setup-plt -D' to avoid rendering the docs -- that's a huge discount on memory use. 16:13:44 offby1: and re poking you -- I didn't intend to say anthing about 4.1.4, 16:14:09 note that just above that there were two cases where people tried to use other people's functions, 16:14:20 and I still think that implementing something like: 16:14:30 rudybot: eval (define blah ...) 16:14:30 eli: error: eval:1:13: ...: ellipses not allowed as an expression in: ... 16:14:42 rudybot: give offby1 blah 16:14:48 would be very interesting. 16:14:49 mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 16:14:58 s/very/*very*/ 16:15:59 elly: BTW, same comment -- you can run setup-plt with `-D' which will finish much faster. (And then you can run it in the background when you have time.) 16:16:35 I mean, this is portage doing its thing, and the server has nothing better to do 16:17:26 portage is the gentoo source distribution thing? 16:17:31 yep 16:17:38 I think I have the doc useflag set 16:17:44 which is probably why it's doing this 16:18:18 There's a doc flag? What does it do? 16:19:20 Mmmkext [n=Donkeyeo@c83-254-128-122.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:19:22 there is no doc flag for plt-scheme 16:19:57 then I don't know why it decided to render the documentation for me 16:20:08 hkBst: I'm talking about what elly said 16:20:23 eli: so is I 16:20:42 I have no idea what a "doc useflag" is. I have 0 gentoo experience. 16:20:56 What would it do? 16:21:06 eli: well basically it would decide whether or not to build documentation 16:21:55 because sometimes building docs requires a lot of time or space or additional dependencies 16:21:56 Just control building it, the sources would still be there? 16:22:42 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["He rode off into the sunset. . ."] 16:23:03 eli: we keep tarballs somewhere... 16:23:21 eli: we don;t install raw source generally 16:23:34 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:24:15 hkBst: You lost me. 16:24:42 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-46.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:51 IIUC, the package system downloads a source archive, which your system then compiles, no? 16:24:51 levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 16:25:01 eli: yes 16:25:36 So if there was a doc flag thing, and you'd turn it off, then you'd get the same source, only the compilation would add some flag to avoid compiling the docs? 16:26:20 eli: yes, somehow the work of creating the docs would be avoided 16:26:44 And is it possible to later turn it back on? If so, what happens when you do so? 16:26:58 eli: yes, you'd have to recompile everything 16:27:04 -!- Mmmkext [n=Donkeyeo@c83-254-128-122.bredband.comhem.se] has left #scheme 16:27:18 There's no way to make it just compile the docs now? 16:27:35 (Given the right instructions in the package description of how to do that.) 16:27:44 eli: only if we would split off the docs into their own package 16:28:07 Bah. 16:28:18 yes 16:28:21 FWIW, implementing an "avoid doc build" would be very easy. 16:28:43 And if there's some way to run a command afterwards, then it's also easy to write the command to compile the docs. 16:29:24 So if anybody cares, feel free to send a feature request putting me as a contact link for providing the instructions of doing these two things. 16:29:30 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 16:29:44 s/link/email/ 16:30:53 *offby1* rubs chin 16:31:19 offby1: Did you do SICP? 16:31:29 "do" ? 16:31:36 as in "read and do all the exercises" ? 16:31:44 Even some of it... 16:32:03 There's a semi-famous bank-account example of representing bank accounts using closures. 16:32:48 offby1: Rings any bells? 16:32:55 eli: do you have a guestimate for what portion of the compile-time the docs are responsible? 16:34:19 hkBst: (a) no; (b) I know that Matthew has a good idea of the numbers; (c) I do know that it's significant -- mostly more than half; (d) if there's some verbose compilation mode then it will be very obvious in the compilation output. 16:34:25 eli: yeah, I remember that. 16:34:32 Don't see how it relates here, unfortunately. 16:34:41 offby1: Here's an example 16:34:52 rudybot: eval (define money 1000) 16:35:08 rudybot: eval (define (withdraw n) (set! money (- money n))) 16:35:15 rudybot: eval (withdraw 10) 16:35:18 rudybot: eval money 16:35:18 eli: ; Value: 990 16:35:20 oh, then you give "withdraw" to someone 16:35:24 but not "money" 16:35:27 Exactly. 16:35:37 Or you make something like this: 16:35:51 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:16 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:36:19 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:36:24 rudybot: eval (define (make-check n) (let ([cashed? #f]) (lambda () (if cashed? (error "THIEF!!!") (begin (set! cashed? #t) (withdraw n)))))) 16:36:51 rudybot: give offby1 (make-check 10) 16:37:22 so I can simply take values from one sandbox and stick 'em in another? That's ... surprising 16:37:52 Of course, they're just values. 16:38:22 The question here would be all the technicalities... 16:38:33 Since you'll need to grab the value somehow. 16:38:49 "namespace" functions, I assume 16:39:25 No, the thing is that when I give you `foo', it shouldn't just write a `foo' in your environment. 16:39:34 also, what if I (define cons 'something-annoying) and then "give eli cons"; you might not want it. 16:39:39 Or even see what I did above: give offby1 (make-check 10) 16:39:40 jinx. 16:40:06 so when I give you something, it's just a value, not a binding. 16:40:14 Yes. 16:40:18 Maybe something like 16:40:19 it could be named "message-01-from-offby1" or something 16:40:24 rudybot: receive check 16:40:48 Which just gets the recently given value. 16:41:14 or you could do (define check (channel-get values-from-offby1)) 16:41:25 although yours is somewhat terser :) 16:41:37 Yes... 16:41:57 (BTW, it can't be just a channel, since then my thread will block, and will just die in 2 seconds.) 16:41:58 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:42:01 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #scheme 16:42:02 ah. 16:43:00 It might even be really easy to implement with `thread-send' and `thread-receive'. 16:43:36 offby1: Will it help if I draw some skeleton code? 16:47:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:48:13 of course! 16:48:22 *offby1* never heard of "thread-send" and "thread-receive" 16:49:02 They're relatively new. 16:49:16 I'll draw something later on. 16:49:23 tx 16:51:21 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:53:29 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:56:47 bzoto [n=pradella@pradella.dei.polimi.it] has joined #scheme 16:58:23 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:42 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:59:17 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 17:01:30 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 17:02:39 -!- bzoto [n=pradella@pradella.dei.polimi.it] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:03:54 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:05:10 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 17:05:42 Riastradh: Does (with-simple-restart 'george "I'm george." (lambda () (car 42))) work as expected for you? 17:15:23 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #scheme 17:15:24 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 17:15:41 Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b0870db23ba023a4] has joined #scheme 17:18:24 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:10 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 17:24:02 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-218-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 17:24:21 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-89.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 17:25:19 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 17:28:17 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 17:28:25 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:30:29 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-56-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:35 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #scheme 17:32:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:33:50 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:34:24 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b0870db23ba023a4] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:36:39 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:25 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:39:19 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:46:48 Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8622fae3e2919295] has joined #scheme 17:48:56 mejja, yes, it works as I expect. 17:49:45 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 17:51:15 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:52:08 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-165-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:53:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:55:40 That sucks! 17:55:49 *Riastradh* blinks. 18:01:06 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 18:01:22 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-89.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:01:55 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 18:05:03 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 18:08:10 I imagine you aren't about to explain to me why you brought this up. 18:08:36 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:37 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:09:30 I imagine george doesn't SIGSEGV for you... 18:10:23 No, it doesn't. 18:10:31 hi Riastradh 18:13:13 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:14:02 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 18:18:33 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@64.213.79.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:24:46 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-165-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:28:16 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:29:30 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:31:37 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 18:35:14 _andre [n=andre@fosforo.k8.com.br] has joined #scheme 18:36:25 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 18:36:38 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:36:58 Riastradh: Probabilistic Scheme? 18:42:08 Hmm? 18:44:47 <_andre> hello 18:44:48 Your name is in ze sauce Sir! 18:45:03 <_andre> scheme newbie here :) 18:45:26 <_andre> is there a better way to write a fold-left function that accepts a variable number of lists as arguments than this? http://codepad.org/OwvpSzr8 18:47:22 No, not really. 18:48:17 mejja, I'm about to vanish for a while, but I'll read the log, in case you would care to form a complete question or to elaborate upon these sauces. 18:48:48 <_andre> Riastradh: ok, thanks :) 18:50:13 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:54:49 -!- nicholasw [n=nw@ckc-109-118.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [] 18:59:34 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:06:56 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:55 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:09:10 -!- _andre [n=andre@fosforo.k8.com.br] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:15:38 nicholasw [n=nw@ckc-109-118.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:17:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@64.213.79.190] has joined #scheme 19:18:50 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 19:28:03 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:37:03 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:40:42 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:41:00 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 19:41:17 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:41:26 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:42:05 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:45:26 Hydr4 [n=Lernaean@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:45:28 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:48:45 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:49:24 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:52:57 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-89.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 19:57:04 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A1654.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:04 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 20:01:50 saccade__ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:02:34 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 20:09:29 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-89.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Success] 20:14:12 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-73.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:28:10 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:56 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.95.51] has joined #scheme 20:32:12 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.162.53] has quit [] 20:33:54 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 20:38:07 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 20:43:00 leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.162.53] has joined #scheme 20:45:14 mike [n=mike@dslb-092-074-004-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:45:38 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:45:44 -!- mike is now known as Guest12392 20:50:08 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 21:12:15 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:18:24 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 21:18:27 mariorz [n=mariorz@unaffiliated/mariorz] has joined #scheme 21:18:33 arrakis [n=arrakis@213-156-52-126.fastres.net] has joined #scheme 21:20:44 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 21:23:41 hello, I have a little problem with plt-scheme's parser tool, I'm trying to avoid parsing something like "let f x = ... f y ..." and signal to the user that f isn't bound in the let body at parse time (like OCaml does), any idea on how to give the name of the function to check for to the parser's recursive call? 21:28:37 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:32:18 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:46 arrakis, why don't you just parse the whole thing then do scope analysis? 21:36:00 if you are worried about multiple passing being slow, don't be 21:38:02 dudrenov [n=user@h-67-101-217-41.snfccasy.covad.net] has joined #scheme 21:40:10 benny` [n=benny@i577A0DED.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 21:40:20 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0DED.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:40:32 seems interesting, how would you do that? the parser is actually a "translator" from this language a la OCaml to Scheme so it outputs something like "(define f (lambda (x) (...))" for an input like "let f x = ... " 21:41:50 arrakis, oh if it's just a syntactic transform then why even bother doing scope analysis? 21:43:24 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 21:43:31 arrakis, btw http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~letouzey/scheme 21:43:41 we want to forbid not well founded recursion so if the user inputs "let f x = ... f y ... " it must not be allowed while if he inputs "letrec f x = ... f y ... " every call to f must be properly analized 21:43:42 may be handy, may not 21:43:46 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 21:44:19 thank you for the link 21:44:34 arrakis, weird goal, you know this has already been done (in SML), checkt out Abels foetus language 21:44:55 there a lot of useful stuff about termination analysis in his papers 21:45:38 *vixey* wonders, what are you up to? :) 21:46:25 arrakis: The error that OCaml will give you for that is *not* a parsing error. 21:46:50 yeah, it's a type error 21:46:57 ...no, it's not that either. 21:46:59 sigh it's a scope analysis error 21:47:18 really the exact time the error is produce is not important 21:47:26 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:39 Actually, arrakis is right, it is a type error. 21:49:00 [But "Type System" is usually taken as something that does more than just verifying that there are no free identifiers.] 21:49:02 vixey: btw it's just a little part that I'm implementing for my thesis proof extraction 21:49:21 arrakis, from what logic? 21:49:37 a little extension of classical logic 21:49:50 oh I had a friend interested in that 21:50:11 I could not understand why anyone would try to extract from /classical/ logic :p 21:50:39 arrakis, is there any overview how it works? 21:50:52 (I mean online somewhere or anything like that) 21:50:56 eli: I used that example to clear the point about what I wanted to do, not because OCaml does this as a parse error 21:51:53 arrakis: The fact that OCaml doesn't throw that error as a parse error should be a pretty thick hint that trying to reject it at parse time is a really bad idea. 21:52:32 eli, No 21:52:33 it's roughly based on this work: http://www.di.unito.it/~lambda/biblio/entry-Berardi-deLiguoro-CSL-08.html 21:52:37 You might be able to do that -- by intermixing (parts of your) type checking with parsing. It's almost guaranteed to be a swamp you'd wish you wouldn't get into. 21:52:38 Morning, what error are we talking about? 21:52:46 eli, When I said, "why don't you just parse the whole thing then do scope analysis?" *that* is the hint 21:53:01 I see no reason why everything I say should not be taken as gospel 21:53:17 no type checking right now 21:53:19 vixey: I'm reffering to arrakis's basic problem. Just knowing how OCaml works should have been sufficient. 21:53:22 I agree that any error that you don't need to do during parsing, you shouldn't do during parsing. 21:53:24 arrakis, thanks 21:54:13 arrakis: You're missing the point: if you don't have a type checker at this point, then you've reached a point where you need one. 21:54:57 it's not up to me really, I'm just the low-level implementor :) 21:55:17 *eli* sighs 21:55:52 arrakis: What if whoever is your boss asks that your parser will also parse `let x = 3 in x*5' to `15'? 21:57:50 eli, I think this is probably irrelevant 21:57:52 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 21:57:53 that would be calculating, not parsing 21:59:28 arrakis: You're right. In a similar way, *that* (finding free identifiers) is type checking, not parsing. 21:59:43 however, I can check for my condition at a later time (after the parsing is done) what's important is that it doesn't get executed as is 21:59:52 maybe eli has me on ignore or something 22:00:44 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-218-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:07 arrakis: Yes, you can do that at a later time. That will be a (relatively simple) type checker. And note that by definition, type checking should never execute (or "compute" or "evaluate" or "reduce") code. 22:01:08 ok, but we aren't going to implement a type checker right now so I was looking for a different way to do it just for a subset of my grammar productions 22:01:18 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 22:01:32 vixey: You're not on ignore, you just didn't say anything that needed replying. 22:01:35 eli, 1) It's not type checking if you are doing scope analysis 22:01:54 eli, 2) reduction during typechecking can happen see PTSs 22:02:12 arrakis: it's a bit hard to understand the issue, but could you not do as vixey suggests? Parse the whole thing to intermediate structure and then do whatever analysis/optimisation required. It would be rather hard to do it on the go at parse time. 22:04:15 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF26A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:28 dudrenow: I could do that, is there some documents I might read to get a better idea on how to do it? 22:04:54 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-13-28.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 22:05:07 Pick up any compiler book. 22:05:21 vixey: (1) See PLAI, section 24.1 "What are Types?"; 22:05:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-13-28.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Client Quit] 22:05:31 books about compilers are outdated crap (except for very few exceptional ones) 22:05:41 (2) You might be able to do some limited amount of redections and/or transformations like optimizations -- but the important point is that you should never do evaluation (in its full form) or you'll hit undecidability pretty fast; 22:06:10 And a bonus item: (3) It looks like even though enough time has passed you are still more interested in flames than in context. 22:06:23 arrakis: also depends what you want to do with it? There are things like scope analystation, lexical scoping optimisation, unifications, etc. 22:07:00 eli, no I don't understand why you are stressing about separating scope analysis with parsing so much when It was the /first/ thing I said 22:07:16 vixey: what compiler books do you recommend? I'm currently reading up on compilers actually. 22:07:28 dudrenov, it's pretty much all outdated crap 22:07:37 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 22:07:41 Even the dragon book? 22:07:42 vixey: Let's pretend now that I have you on ignore. 22:08:10 What materials do you recommend? 22:08:24 dudrenov, 2 things actually worth reading are Appel - Compiling with Continuations and Meyjer - Calculating Compilers 22:08:26 vixey, can we pretend that, no matter how right you are, being antagonistic isn't helpful, and serves only to annoy everyone around you? 22:08:43 dudrenow: I guess it's not something very complicated I'd just like to forbid recursion in a "let" statement and do some manipulations of the recursive call in a "letrec" statement 22:09:16 Riastradh: I never mean any harm :/ 22:09:27 I can't stand the dragon book 22:09:30 Tail recursive, or all recursive? 22:09:38 all recursive 22:09:45 Coz' you could also do that at run time :) 22:10:24 vixey, then let your meaning be reflected in your words. It doesn't matter whether you mean to be antagonistic if your words make you appear so to those around you. 22:10:28 Well then have your code in some tree structure and see if any function call is a child of another function call. 22:10:39 *descendant 22:11:13 dudrenov: I enjoy the book "Advanced Compiler Design and Implementation" 22:12:14 Adding to my amazon wish list :) 22:12:26 Arelius, I've read that, I thought it was a bit silly 22:12:34 dudrenow: actually I translate this language I'm parsing to proper Scheme, would it be possible to do the analysis on that (I'm quite new to Scheme)? 22:14:06 your language > intermediate structure > whatever post parsing stuff you want to do > scheme 22:14:11 vixey: interesting 22:14:44 (I wouldn't say it sucked though) 22:14:53 vixey: I found the compiling with continuation book, but I can't seem to find anything about Meyjer - Calculating Compilers 22:14:54 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:15:10 dudrenow: no, the parser emits the scheme code that gets evaluated later 22:15:35 dudrenov, oh it's because I can't spell, http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/emeijer/Papers/Thesis.pdf 22:15:36 Well change it, it'll still emit scheme in the end. 22:15:50 oh..... that links a 404 sorry 22:15:52 Meessing Pege-a 22:15:54 YA 22:15:59 I found that much :) 22:16:19 that's awful 22:17:23 I guess he was too busy implementing X# to update his site or somithng 22:18:06 that's that xml thingy, no? 22:18:19 correct 22:21:49 Riastradh: Because the field is developing so quickly and emphasis shifts from one aspect to another, most books I know about are very outdated. The best materials are research papers like the stuff you get on citeceer -- is this better? :)) 22:22:08 Riastradh: I don't know how to stop getting on peoples nerves though 22:23:09 vixey: http://www.cs.ru.nl/aio-info/FormerJuniors/ErikMeijer.html 22:23:13 found it 22:24:01 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:25:45 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8622fae3e2919295] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:26:34 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:14 eli are you mad at me though? 22:29:14 vixey: No. I have no idea what you were trying to say. It was a kind of a meta-argument about recognizing your comment (which seemed irrelevant to me), and I have no interest in such a meta argument. 22:29:25 ok. 22:29:56 If you really want, I can explain why exactly checking for free bindings is type-checking -- but I get the impression that you're not interested. 22:30:49 eli, yeah I'm not bother much "when is a chair a seat", I just have to try to stop annoying people 22:31:31 vixey: I don't think you are annoying, you were actually helpful and informative. 22:31:47 dudrenov, it's pretty obvious, even to _me_ than I am very annoying 22:31:49 (This is, BTW, an example of why I didn't reply to you: I have no idea what you mean by the chair & seat analogy.) 22:32:19 Meijer's thesis, on first glance, looks really interesting actually. 22:32:29 dudrenov, (because Riastradh points it out) 22:32:55 yeah it's good esp. if you like squiggol 22:35:46 exexex_ [n=chatzill@85.101.223.78] has joined #scheme 22:38:16 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.95.51] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:38:23 -!- exexex_ is now known as exexex 22:40:01 offby1: ping 22:41:32 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@64.213.79.190] has quit [Success] 22:43:13 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 22:46:05 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-220-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["-_-"] 22:47:33 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:48:18 jonrafkind [n=jon@64.213.79.190] has joined #scheme 22:56:59 -!- arrakis [n=arrakis@213-156-52-126.fastres.net] has left #scheme 22:59:48 jao [n=user@13.Red-83-42-109.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:06:10 offby1: ping 23:21:53 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 23:23:02 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:24:05 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:24:41 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:27:20 -!- Guest12392 [n=mike@dslb-092-074-004-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:37:46 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.101.223.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:08 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:52:34 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:53:45 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:36 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection]