00:00:09 p1dzkl: see the longer example above... 00:01:51 bombshelter13: yeah -- what p1dzkl said. 00:01:59 so what's wrong with: (define (create-random-gen some-list) (lambda () ( ... do stuff with some-list here ...) 00:02:04 Once you create a procedure by evaluating a lambda form, it's immutable, as far as I know. 00:02:25 bombshelter13: I suspect you're over-thinking this. Whatever you want to do can probably be done easily without macros. 00:02:57 offby1: yeah, macros are perhaps not the correct solution I suppose... I should probably still learn about 'em though. ;) 00:04:03 huh... seems like modifying a procedure after it's creation would be a great feature in a language, surprised that it doesn't exist. :/ 00:04:21 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:35 (define make-foo (lambda (nv) (lambda (x) (let ((my-num nv)) (+ x my-num)))) and use macros to "automete" making maker procedures... 00:04:37 probably because it's not needed. 00:04:38 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 00:04:44 and you're confused about its greatness. 00:04:46 No offense. 00:04:58 no I'm not 00:05:02 There _used_ to be self-modifying code. People knocked it off. 00:05:33 hurt more than it helped, I imagine. 00:05:34 bombshelter13: sure you can; just maintain the procedure as a list as long as you can, then EVAL it at the end after you've modified it 00:06:00 bombshelter13: no need for macros; but someone will always chime in that, if you're using EVAL, you're almost always "doing it wrong" (tm) 00:06:36 klutometis: and I suppose I could make a procedure/form that I could use when evaling these to store a 'backup' copy of hte original un-evaled one, so I could reach for that if I need to modify it later? 00:06:47 the horror 00:06:50 also you could create an "object" that responds to a "getter" message. ftp://ftp.cs.indiana.edu/pub/scheme-repository/doc/pubs/swob.txt 00:07:06 There is self modifying code. It's called object oriented programming :3 00:07:09 sure, why not? i'd like you to paste some code, though, so i can get a better idea of what you're doing 00:07:14 there may be a more elegant solution 00:07:31 lisppaste: url 00:07:31 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 00:07:32 synx: too late! ;} 00:07:34 offby1: if you had a similar high level goal to the one I described, how would you approach it? 00:07:36 or possible closures, could be considered code that can be modified. 00:07:49 bombshelter13: that's like asking "if you, too, wanted to poke out your eyes with a sharp stick ..." 00:07:54 sladegen: arrrg, tor has failed me once again! 00:07:55 klutometis: alright, lemme remove some unrelated stuff from my code and paste it. 00:07:58 bombshelter13: seriously, I don't know what problem you're trying to solve. 00:08:38 offby1: it seems like a bizarre notion to me 00:08:47 but possible, nevertheless 00:09:43 no argument 00:11:45 bombshelter13 pasted "example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73090 00:12:17 bombshelter13: are you a monkey patcher, btw? 00:12:30 klutometis: not sure what that means? 00:12:39 I am just a monkey patching man, and I'm glad you are a monkey patching woman, too! 00:13:21 heh; a ruby/python habit, if i recall, to modify procedures in live modules 00:13:48 klutometis: you're not actually modifying procedures, if I recall correctly; instead your mutating bindings: changing the binding to point at a different procedure. 00:13:51 Ah, I don't tend to use either of those, no... 00:14:03 bombshelter13: nice, dude; i'm smelling some D&D or something similar 00:14:23 klutometis: and as far as being bizarre, well, exploring possibility is part of what interests me. :) 00:14:52 I don't know whether to be pleased that people are still playing D&D ... or depressed that I played it 30 years ago. 00:14:54 anyway, can you describe the problem in the context of what you've posted? 00:15:07 bombshelter13: yeah, you posted _way_ too much code for me to assimilate 00:15:17 klutometis: Rolemaster, actually. :) Once I get these tables to the point where they're much more featureful I intend to implement the Armls Law tables :) 00:16:49 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFDD27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:17:36 klutometis: basically, near the end insta-table is called, which does some rearrangement of the arguments into the correct form for make-table (I will probably clean these up, and move several of these into lexical functions inside make table, but haven't done so yet)... make-table accepts the random gen and the transformed list (whose entries, by the time they get to make-table, look more like ((1. 10) "Item")... 00:18:05 make-table returns the function described above, that when invoked, picks an item from the structure it holds and returns it... 00:18:17 It would be handy if I could modify these post-creation. 00:19:04 I suppose I may have to eventually resort to learning how to do objects, and make it into an object that stores the actual structure in an attribute? But, in the interest of exploring possibility, was trying to figure out if I could accomplish it this way. 00:19:10 I'd nag you to test first, but I don't do that myself (much) 00:19:25 bombshelter13: objects are rarely useful, in my humble opinion. 00:19:41 offby1: test what in particular? arguments, and such? Yeah, eventually there'd probably be more code to do that, this is very preliminary. 00:19:50 bombshelter13: SRFI-9 really isn't that bad; and exhausts the record/attribute thing well enough 00:20:30 bombshelter13: when you say, "modify these post-creation"; what does "these" refer to? 00:20:48 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057106.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:20:51 bombshelter13: test your functions, naturally. 00:21:51 klutometis: These being the 'random chart' objects being created. 00:22:09 s/objects/procedures/ 00:22:20 klutometis: *looking at SRFI-9* 00:23:21 klutometis: Sounds like you're suggesting creating a record type for the charts, and having a picker procedure, external to the record, that does the selection? 00:24:03 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:24:47 that would be one way of doing it; you could also use a closure and access the data by keyword-dispatch (see SICP); but I don't think you need anything more sophisto than a srfi-9 record 00:25:05 hey sladegen 00:25:09 modifying procedures is an interesting idea; and you should certainly practice lazy evaluation 00:25:31 but records would be more readable here, in my opinion 00:25:45 klutometis: Yeah, I've played a little with lazy evals in Haskell, but haven't tried it in Scheme yet... 00:26:26 bombshelter13: look for delay/force in R5RS 00:27:23 Hmm, I could probably even store the picker in a field on the record, and then just do the pick by pulling this field and evaluating it, I suppose. 00:30:32 bombshelter13: that would be interesting 00:31:16 klutometis: I'll probably make that my next avenue of exploration, just reading through the srfi9 docs... 00:31:21 -!- regulate [i=regulate@notchill.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:24 regulate [i=regulate@notchill.com] has joined #scheme 00:37:10 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:38:54 Hopefully a much more trivial question... can I grab a ready made range procedure somewhere? I.E, (range 1 4) = (1 2 3 4)? I made one but it's probably not the best way of doing it. 00:40:48 rudybot: eval (build-list 10 values) 00:40:48 offby1: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 00:40:48 offby1: ; stdout: "Uh oh: (\"Whoops:\" 1 2 3)\n" 00:40:55 *offby1* stares blankly 00:40:56 rudybot: eval (build-list 10 values) 00:40:57 offby1: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 00:41:02 rudybot: eval (build-list 10 add1) 00:41:02 offby1: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) 00:41:06 rudybot: eval (build-list 10 (compose add1 add1)) 00:41:06 offby1: ; Value: (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11) 00:41:23 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:42:29 rudybot: eval (require srfi/1) 00:42:34 rudybot: eval (iota 10) 00:42:34 offby1: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 00:42:55 ooh, thanks. *plays with that* 00:46:25 does drscheme give me the option to compile scheme code to native machine code? 00:46:40 perhaps as a commandline function, if not in the IDE? 00:47:05 -!- kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:47:42 kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:50:12 offby1: is that a new require syntax for srfis? 00:50:35 wasn't it (require "1.ss" "srfi") or something like that before? 00:50:41 cads: as a non-expert that spouts vague memories as facts: it allows to compile to an executable (Scheme->Create Executable in DrScheme), also to C in some way with a command line, but the code will still run as bytecode 00:53:56 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:54:55 p1dzkl: I do that too :D 00:55:14 *jcowan* unvanishes 00:55:19 cads: Why do you need to compile scheme code to native machine code? 00:55:20 incubot: thank jupiter the macbook keyboard seems to have a hydrophobic membrane; it's taken everything from milk to diet crack (tm) and keeps on ticking 00:55:21 Error: unbound variable: thank 00:55:29 incubot: thank jupiter the macbook keyboard seems to have a hydrophobic membrane; it's taken everything from milk to diet crack [tm] and keeps on ticking 00:55:31 membrane keyboard? 00:56:10 duncanm: it was new in mzscheme 4, released june 2008 00:56:17 duncanm: yeah, it's new in PLT v4 00:56:24 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 00:56:25 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:56:33 eli, I'd like to compute some numerical code, and need the speedup of native code over interpreted code, to make experiments run faster 00:56:51 cads: DrScheme does compile to native code, but perhaps not the way you expect. 00:57:05 cads: and mzscheme is ultra-fast for integer numerics, in my experience 00:57:23 I've implemented the code in ruby because of ease of coding, and the overhead is just brutal 00:57:28 cads: MzScheme, including DrScheme, will basically compile all source code to machine code dynamically. 00:57:40 hmm 00:57:45 You can byte-compile files, but the speedup is only in loading the code. 00:57:55 I see 00:57:57 cads: yeah, ruby is dog-slow 00:58:22 In addition, DrScheme inserts a good amount of code for debugging, which is why running the code in MzScheme will usually be much faster. 00:58:54 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 00:59:00 You can also get DrScheme to be faster by disabling the debugging support (in the language selection menu hit the details button, and it'll be the top-right option). 00:59:37 offby1, I was looking into coding a C extension for my code, and rather than mess with that I decided to find a good fast dynamic language that supports the abstraction I need without costing my terrible execution speed 01:03:02 can you guys suggest a scheme module for doing vector space and matrix math? 01:03:56 http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=plt-linalg.plt&owner=wmfarr 01:03:57 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/4vkq78 01:06:50 cool 01:08:34 what do PLTers use for simple drawing/visualization? 01:09:15 The GUI toolkit, usually -- MrEd. 01:09:22 See also the `plot' library. 01:11:02 what about for more complex graphics, image processing, or 3d graphics/scene-graph engine? 01:11:36 There's `sgl' -- an interface to opengl. 01:11:59 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:12:09 And there's some probably-needs-some-update-work interface to imagemagick. 01:12:32 actually I probably don't need the graphics framework stuff, just pixel/polygon pushing should be enough 01:12:43 thanks eli 01:13:15 For that, mred should be enough. (If you're using linux, then it should be using cairo for the drawing.) 01:13:38 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 01:16:44 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:21:14 *jcowan* decides to implement Blesity in Common Lisp, thereby turning to the complicated-and-messy side of the Force. 01:21:34 blesity? 01:21:47 My semi-in-progress implementation of ISLisp. 01:22:36 why clisp instead of scheme? 01:22:59 Basically, I'll have to put together a lot of stoopit scaffolding. 01:23:21 The compiler (sometimes known as Grandy) accepts ISLisp and generates Java. 01:23:33 s/I'll/I'd 01:23:43 jcowan: why not Stella? 01:24:22 s/Stella/STELLA/ 01:24:42 http://www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/Stella/ 01:26:25 *offby1* stands outside the window and bellows 01:27:40 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #scheme 01:34:33 klutometis: pointer? 01:35:09 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEE32.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:39:54 STELLAAAAAA@@! 01:42:52 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #scheme 01:51:44 Does PLT have an equivelnt to MIT/GNU's pp procedure, that will attempt to print the definition of a procedure? 01:53:17 pretty-print 01:53:49 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:54:48 eli: thanks! 01:55:29 krat3r [n=krat@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has joined #scheme 01:56:55 Doesn't seem to do it... :/ '(define add (lambda (x y) (+ x y))) (pretty-print add)' returns # :/ 01:59:34 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:42 rudybot: eval (define add (lambda (x y) (+ x y))) 02:00:53 rudybot: evall (pretty-print add) 02:00:57 rudybot: eval (pretty-print add) 02:00:57 eli: ; stdout: "#\n" 02:01:05 That's obvious. 02:01:19 rudybot: eval (define add-expr '(lambda (x y) (+ x y))) 02:01:24 rudybot: eval (pretty-print add-expr) 02:01:24 eli: ; stdout: "(lambda (x y) (+ x y))\n" 02:01:34 That prints the expression. 02:03:12 jcowan: you were talking about lisp -> java compilation, so I thought I'd plug my boys at ISI. 02:05:31 eli: Hm, I can't print one that's been evaluated? 02:06:31 bombshelter13: at that point they're pretty opaque, depending on your distribution 02:06:36 klutometis: The dialect looks very different: static typing etc. 02:07:03 jcowan: secunda facie, indeed 02:08:25 bombshelter13: "what he said", 02:08:47 hm, alright, fair enough. :/ 02:08:56 bombshelter13: but more than that -- how should (lambda (x y) (+ x y)) print? 02:09:11 Is "(lambda (a b) (+ a b))" valid? 02:09:30 eli: sure, losing variable names wouldn't be a huge deal. 02:09:31 What about printing it from a lexical context where you don't have a binding for `+'? 02:09:35 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:08 Also, how would this print: (let ([x 1]) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) ? 02:10:50 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:11:05 bombshelter13: if you *really* want to deal with these things, a few months ago there was some example on the list that does something close to printing the values that a closure closed over, roughly. 02:11:29 I'd be satisfied with either as you typed it or with the let having been handled, '(lambda (y) (+ 1 y)))'... either would be useful to me. 02:11:30 Something about mimicking something that mit scheme is doing for some kind of debugging. 02:11:36 But I do wish ISLisp had single inheritance instead of CL-style 02:12:26 bombshelter13: what about (let ([+ *]) (lambda (x y) (+ x y))) ? 02:12:54 eli: haven't come to using '*' yet, so I'm not sure in that case. 02:13:54 basically I would be satisfied with, if the procedure that would do this was called 'magic', that (magic procedure-name) would return a piece of text that would evaluate to the same procedure as procedure-name... 02:14:18 if there's more than one string that would evaluate to the same procedure, I don't believe I'm too picky about which one it gives me. 02:14:41 bombshelter13: that's not generally possible though as your environment will be different when you eval the text 02:14:56 bombshelter13: you're trapped as soon as you require the printout to be something you can evaluate. 02:15:09 eli: how so? 02:15:15 ["what he said", again.] 02:15:46 I guess there's no way to pass it an environment and handle that :/ 02:15:53 it sounds vaguely reminiscient of the hygiene problem 02:15:55 how about this: (let ([f (open-output-file "blah")]) (lambda () ...f...)) ? 02:16:09 bombshelter13: not unless you all procedures to close over every binding 02:16:26 bombshelter13: it would possibly retain tons of memory 02:16:41 Hmm, alright... thanks for the information, even if there isn't a way to do what I'm hoping. :) 02:16:51 bombshelter13: you could always use a language without lexical scope :) 02:16:53 -!- lambda is now known as davirus 02:17:02 obviously, I'm still familiarizing myself with all the capabilities of the language ;) 02:17:26 bombshelter13: you can also drop the evaluation requirement, and ask just for the text -- then it becomes an easy problem. 02:17:40 eli: Oh? 02:19:06 bombshelter13: give me a minute. 02:19:18 eli: no problem 02:21:24 bombshelter13: unless eli has an ace up his sleeve, i still contend that the most portable and transparent solution to your problem is to maintain the expressions as lists and EVAL them appropriately 02:22:03 klutometis: Yeah? I think your record idea sounded like it might be on the right track... 02:22:11 I did say: drop the evaluation requirement. 02:22:35 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:36 heh... I'm curious to see what is up your sleeve. 02:22:53 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:23:16 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.98] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:23:22 -!- davirus [n=lambda@c-24-5-198-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:41 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.99] has joined #scheme 02:24:03 rudybot: eval (module foo scheme (define-struct proc (p form) #:property prop:procedure 0 #:property prop:custom-write (lambda (proc out write?) (write-bytes #"#" out))) (define-syntax-rule (lam xs . body) (make-proc (lambda xs . body) '(lambda xs . body))) (provide (rename-out [lam lambda]))) 02:24:14 rudybot: eval (require 'foo) 02:24:23 rudybot: eval (lambda (x y) (* x y)) 02:24:23 eli: ; Value: # 02:24:49 rudybot: eval (let ([x 123]) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 02:24:50 eli: ; Value: # 02:24:55 rudybot: eval (define z (let ([x 123]) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) 02:24:58 rudybot: eval z 02:24:58 eli: ; Value: # 02:25:07 rudybot: eval (z 1) 02:25:07 eli: ; Value: 124 02:25:54 clever (but platform specific) 02:26:07 Hmmm.... interesting... 02:26:34 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:27:16 not platform specific for some value of `platform'. 02:27:36 But in any case, it's pretty useless. 02:30:04 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 02:34:23 -!- oSand [n=heartles@203.97.179.3] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:34:41 oSand [n=heartles@222-154-255-19.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:35:14 lambda [n=lambda@c-24-5-198-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:35:25 eli: heh; i notice you've been fond of "for some values" quips lately; i challenge you to find some assertion, though, that couldn't be rendered meaningless by a "for same values" qualification 02:36:22 damn, more snow. Just what we need. 02:36:24 for some value of "snow" 02:36:26 if such an assertion exists, i imagine it will have to be either universally true or false; a tautology might be one such 02:36:45 is x not x for some values of x? 02:37:05 are we not men, for some values of "devo"? 02:37:10 heh 02:38:41 klutometis: Well, I'm fond of such "for some value" assertions when it comes to the illusion of "portable scheme is a useful language". 02:39:11 i suppose false is not false for certain languages where the double negative is merely amplifying and not self-negating, like ancient greek 02:39:14 So I point out, again, that if you choose an implementation and stick to it, then you get no portability problems. 02:39:32 but that begs the question, doesn't it? 02:39:43 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:39:51 i was talking about cross-implemantion portability 02:40:16 No, I just assume that experienced people will know what I mean, and we can save ourselves another war-of-the-implementations hassle. 02:40:52 (I'm especially not in the mood for such flamewars when I have sounds of a real one (a real war) much too close to me.) 02:42:15 but solving controversies by fiat is antisocial; it breaks the dialectical exercise 02:42:35 the dialectical exercise, eh? 02:42:44 I've lived a number of happy decades without one of those 02:42:55 *glogic* sigh 02:43:13 offby1: that's too bad; it's a great workout for the fingers 02:43:23 carpal tunnel lurketh, though 02:43:45 glogic: glogic is a contraction a google logic, isn't it? still beta? 02:44:58 klutometis: do you have any information about how Stella maps its classes + mixins into Java classes + interfacces? Potzing through the source does not appeal. 02:45:16 klutometis: take it as the natural way of things: I'm expected to ignore portability, and you're expected to complain about it... So both sides are true by definition, depends on what the reader cares about. 02:45:33 "Zaphod's just this, guy you know." 02:45:34 jcowan: had you seen this document? http://www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/Stella/slides-body.html 02:46:20 *jcowan* looks. 02:46:24 jcowan: oh, right; it's C++ specific; there's a certain amount of hand-waving when it comes to Java 02:46:27 seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 02:46:47 that document is old, too 02:46:59 klutometis: people that know me know what it means it has nothing to do with google 02:47:52 glogic: oh, ok; we don't know you, though 02:48:10 klutometis: you don't 02:48:17 p1d annotated #73090 with "More Schemely" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73090#1 02:48:21 glogic: yes; thanks for the tautology 02:48:30 klutometis: any time 02:48:44 glogic: smart ass much? 02:48:57 is klutometis a scheme/lisp AI bot ? 02:49:17 X-Scale: yes; although i still fail turing every now and then 02:49:27 klutometis: for "certain amount o which" read "total" 02:49:27 :) 02:49:43 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 02:50:39 jcowan: if you're interested, i'll get in touch with tom russ and hans chalupsky 02:50:44 whoops 02:51:19 X-Scale: seriously: yes, klutometis is a bot; incubot made him. 02:51:31 incubot: what implementation is klutometis written in? 02:51:32 You can run Symbolics Virtual Lisp Machine on that. 02:52:15 all this time i'd been running under the assumption this entire channel was bots 02:52:30 glogic: but that's because you're stuck in the cartesian daemon-model of the world 02:52:57 glogic: most of us are. 02:53:10 bombshelter13: http://paste.lisp.org/display/73090#1 02:53:28 I'm still not sure why you'd want to modify a procedure, but ok 02:54:14 p1dzkl: Huh, thanks... let me try to figure out what you've done :) 02:54:31 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:57:00 p1dzkl: Heh, you cleaned up a lot of things... gonna take a bit longer to read and check everything but I'm sure I'll get some good ideas on how to shorten things from it, yours is definately a bit more concise than the original... 03:03:01 huh, yours doesn't actually seem to print the output though... *tries to determine why* 03:04:02 *blinks* oh, works if I take the #lang line off. 03:14:36 -!- amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["Farewell"] 03:20:00 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:23:48 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEE32.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:32:11 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:41:35 -!- kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:42:31 kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:42:34 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:45:28 -!- oSand [n=heartles@222-154-255-19.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:01:15 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:01:40 /quit 04:01:46 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 04:04:57 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 04:19:04 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 04:19:09 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:19:25 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 04:29:41 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 04:29:52 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:30:09 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@195.159.114.206] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:34:22 dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:37:40 Riastradh: would you consider adding a note to your Lisp Style Rules under ``Funny Characters'' about forward-slashes, such as SRFI-69's HASH-TABLE-REF/DEFAULT; namely that forward-slash is pronounced as `with'? 04:38:09 Riastradh: And would you consider formalizing the de facto semantics of forward-slashes? 04:48:00 Debolaz [n=debolaz@195.159.114.206] has joined #scheme 04:51:47 Modius [n=Modius@davidp4.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #scheme 04:53:15 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-75-52-174-185.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:54:51 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:01:35 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:02:39 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 05:14:37 -!- Modius [n=Modius@davidp4.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:35 Modius [n=Modius@davidp4.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #scheme 05:23:40 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:24:43 dlurf [n=dlurf@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 05:26:04 -!- Kumool [n=Banano@63.245.38.81] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:27:36 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176220156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:44 tjafk [n=timj@e176216079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:28:11 klutometis: i use the forward-slash for 'or' too, eg first/default 05:28:34 unless you can suggest me something else :) 05:28:56 besides first-or-default 05:30:23 rudybot: eval (current-seconds) 05:30:23 offby1: ; Value: 1231133423 05:30:27 rudybot: eval (date->string (current-seconds)) 05:30:28 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: date->string 05:30:34 rudybot: eval (seconds->date (current-seconds)) 05:30:35 offby1: ; Value: #(struct:date 34 30 0 5 1 2009 1 4 #f -18000) 05:30:43 rudybot: eval (require scheme/date) 05:30:48 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds))) 05:30:48 offby1: ; Value: "Monday, January 5th, 2009" 05:30:52 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds)) #t) 05:30:53 offby1: ; Value: "Monday, January 5th, 2009 12:30:52am" 05:34:14 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-148-198.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:34:14 -!- Modius [n=Modius@davidp4.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:42:16 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:44:47 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:46:32 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:50:21 rudybot: seen ventonegro 05:50:21 proqesi: ventonegro was seen in/on #scheme one week, six days ago, saying "ah, that's why #lisp banned him", and then ventonegro was seen quitting in/on 136.166.1.3 one week, six days ago, saying "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" 05:50:43 :( 05:51:07 rudybot: seen geckosenator 05:51:07 geckosenator: geckosenator was seen joining in/on :#scheme fifty-seven minutes, fifty-two seconds ago, and then geckosenator was seen in/on #scheme one second ago, saying "rudybot: seen geckosenator" 05:51:25 rudybot: seen rudybot 05:51:26 geckosenator: rudybot was seen quitting in/on li11-10.members.linode.com nine weeks, six days ago, saying "Remote closed the connection", and then rudybot was seen quitting in/on li11-10.members.linode.com five days, eight hours ago, saying "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" 05:51:49 wow, rudyboot sees itslef 05:52:20 yes, but he's insecure 05:52:52 rudybot: eval eval 05:52:52 geckosenator: ; Value: # 05:52:59 cool, can eval too 05:55:33 rudybot: ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) 05:55:48 rudybot: 'hello 05:56:12 uhh... 05:57:40 what is the best scheme for extending an application as a scripting language? guile? 05:57:56 can't be GPL though 06:00:00 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:02:48 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-148-198.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:02:56 guile is gpl 06:03:19 wy: you didn't say eval 06:03:36 rudybot: eval (let 'hello 'display) 06:03:36 geckosenator: error: eval:1:5: let: bad syntax (not an identifier and expression for a binding) at: quote in: (let (quote hello) (quote display)) 06:03:42 rudybot: eval 'hello 06:03:43 wy: ; Value: hello 06:03:51 rudybot: eval (let 'display 'hello) 06:03:52 geckosenator: error: eval:1:5: let: bad syntax (not an identifier and expression for a binding) at: quote in: (let (quote display) (quote hello)) 06:03:54 aw 06:03:59 geckosenator: good. so I didn't do the evil thing 06:04:07 rudybot: eval (let ('display) 'hello) 06:04:07 geckosenator: error: reference to undefined identifier: hello 06:04:18 i'm apparently bad at scheme today 06:05:12 geckosenator: no, guile is LGPL 06:05:46 leppie: that's interesting 06:06:32 rudybot: eval (let ('display) '`hello) 06:06:32 geckosenator: ; stdout: "hello" 06:06:35 heh 06:07:43 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:07:46 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-157-51.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:08:17 ah well, guess I'll use guile then. it may suck a bit, but at least it runs on my zaurus 06:09:47 I wouldn't say guile sucks. 06:10:19 For one, it has the only glade library in any scheme. as part of the glade-gnome project. 06:11:19 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:22:01 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 06:24:04 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:40:35 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:46:42 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:49:09 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-148.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 07:07:08 -!- dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:18 dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:25 ExcelsisD [i=email@89.180.227.177] has joined #scheme 07:22:09 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 07:25:02 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:25:15 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 07:31:11 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:32 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-218-78.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:03 oSand [n=heartles@118-92-118-248.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:41:14 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:53:13 -!- oSand [n=heartles@118-92-118-248.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:56:13 haole [n=ivan@189.4.157.194] has joined #scheme 07:56:40 hey there... i'm using gambit under emacs, and i'm experiencing some problems.. is this a good place to get support for this? 07:57:17 oSand [n=heartles@118-92-118-248.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:03:12 haole: try asking your question and waiting 08:03:17 haole: if someone knows, they will answer 08:03:26 i'm having troubles with gambit under emacs 22... after some time using the interpreter, it starts telling me that every define i try to do is ill-placed, even something like (define a 10)... what could this be? 08:04:28 did you have an unclosed prior expression or something? 08:07:03 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:07:18 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:09:16 Elly: maybe... but how do i know that? i'm not used to emacs yet 08:09:27 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:10:25 i just checked... typing ) and hitting enter... it told me this >> Datum or EOF expected 08:10:26 I don't know; I don't use emacs :) 08:16:00 elmex [n=elmex@e180069098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 08:17:18 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 08:33:14 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:16 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:41:44 haole: problem is not with emacs, and it's not a problem at all. It's just gambit's debug mode. 08:41:59 it's actually really useful 08:51:48 -!- lambda [n=lambda@c-24-5-198-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:53:05 lambda [n=lambda@c-24-5-198-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:02:38 M-AO-CUBO [n=aa@89.180.22.231] has joined #scheme 09:03:56 olgen [n=jacobm@2005ds3-by.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 09:04:50 hi can somebody do a battleship in scheme? 09:09:28 ejs1 [n=eugen@92.49.232.3] has joined #scheme 09:12:38 (BATTLESHIP LONGBOAT 3 2) 09:13:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-148.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:44 M-AO-CUBO: I was doing good, but sarahbot sunk it 09:18:58 Should a feature that both acts as a predicate and produces a side effect be called 'procname?!' or 'procname!?'? 09:19:05 M-AO-CUBO: yes; in fact a few of them have been driven under vasco da gama 09:19:14 s/feature/procedure/ 09:19:32 bombshelter13, the existence of such a thing is worrying 09:19:33 bombshelter13: is one or the other feature more prominent or interesting? 09:19:53 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:11 vixey, klutometis: Well, it's a 'try to modify this and tell me if it worked' sort of function 09:20:32 oh that sounds like a ! to me 09:20:41 i concur 09:20:49 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 09:20:50 hm, alright 09:21:09 bombshelter13: read this: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 09:21:18 it's best to interpret the suffixes by spirit and not letter 09:21:26 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 09:21:36 in fact, there are cases where mutative procedures wouldn't necessarily carry the bang 09:22:03 klutometis: yeah, I suppose his 'primary purpose' clause suggests that the modification is more important. 09:22:36 bombshelter13: again, though; feel free to develop your own style, even if it seems weird to the veterans 09:24:15 i've had a few interrobangs (?!) in my day, too 09:24:44 fuck the dogma 09:25:02 down with that sort of thing! 09:25:50 incubot: it's questionable whether the interrobang is mutation or predicate first 09:25:52 not afaik. Parrot's design is questionable, so I think most people are going to wait until its a bit more proven before wasting any time. 09:28:20 incubot: oh, I'm sure those perl folks know what they're doing.. I mean, perl's a great language, right? 09:28:22 hey, folks, if you're invited to a wedding, please return your RSVP cards promptly. It is very stressful for all involved when the number of guests is not even close to known less than two weeks before the wedding. :( 09:28:55 oh my 09:29:02 -!- proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:29:53 -!- M-AO-CUBO [n=aa@89.180.22.231] has quit [] 09:30:40 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@92.49.232.3] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:32:17 M-AO-CUBO [n=aa@89.180.22.231] has joined #scheme 09:32:28 dzhus [n=user@93-80-209-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:41:30 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:48:19 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-071-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 09:51:16 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-065-196-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 09:59:57 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-119.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:02:57 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 10:09:39 -!- Axioplase is now known as 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dsmith heat maxote djjack saccade levi inhortte mornfall 14:07:14 -!- names: Riastradh rotty lisppaste specbot mbishop sad0ur_ ski_ pjdelport minion nasloc__ jdev aspect Mr_Awesome_ pbusser2 Deformati mqt Poeir subversus cky bpalmer tltstc incubot leppie gribozavr nothingHappens Arelius pfo qebab Gracenotes duncanm wastrel dfeuer Kusanagi Paraselene__ isomer gaja ricky Elly tabe jonrafkind mjonsson_ synx jberg- ttmrichter sladegen offby1 offby1-quassel amoe borism ecraven dnm r0bby wasabi__ p1dzkl elias` rudybot DuClare 14:07:14 -!- names: XTL z0d emma felipe elf_ vincenz klutometis mr_uggla ineiros zbigniew sjamaan dlouhy Adrinael Leonidas ski__ clog 14:10:00 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:31 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-165-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:11:06 nickgibbon [n=nickgibb@CPE-124-191-40-218.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 14:11:47 -!- dzhus is now 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[n=G-Brain@ip4da02711.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #scheme 14:40:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-227-196.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:37 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:44:51 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 14:51:32 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-116-4.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:28 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 14:58:50 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-116-4.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 14:59:28 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 15:00:29 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:02:08 klutometis: how is that interesting? 15:14:01 -!- nickgibbon [n=nickgibb@CPE-124-191-40-218.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:16:48 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 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[n=lars@p5B0DC8A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:18 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:42:49 klutometis, forward slashes are also often used to separate a prefix that supplies context. 15:44:11 I'm not sure even that those slashes that separate suffixes are all interpreted as the preposition `with'. 15:46:00 I'm sure that they are not all interpreted thus, indeed. 15:46:23 The slash-suffix sometimes names a variant or a case of a procedure. 15:47:20 For example, if there is a FOO that has a case for bars, bazzes, and quuxen, those cases might be broken down into FOO/BAR, FOO/BAZ, FOO/QUUX. Or a general fooing operation might have three different ways to be invoked, by those same names. 15:47:26 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 15:50:23 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:59:16 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:03:40 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:16 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 16:04:27 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 16:04:50 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@2005ds3-by.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 16:07:50 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 16:07:53 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:08:56 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:44 -!- cracki [n=cracki@47-252.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 16:11:45 -!- dzhus [n=user@93-80-209-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:52 hi; is this possible to specify a default value in define-record ? 16:13:04 it seems I can't (at least with chicken scheme) 16:17:23 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:21:11 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:27:50 -!- higepon [n=taro@FLH1Ael060.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:29:20 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:34:53 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 16:38:41 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:39:55 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:48:57 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DC8A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:51:38 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 16:52:02 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:56:41 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-119.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:13 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 17:04:18 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-065-196-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:39 benny [n=benny@i577A0953.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 17:16:48 choas [n=lars@p5B0DC8A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:16 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:32:59 Student [n=Magical@5ac32715.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 17:35:07 sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 17:35:59 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:36:26 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:36:30 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 17:38:11 Riastradh: would you mind adding a subsection to the style guide to that effect? 17:41:08 pitui [n=pitui@doh.research.att.com] has joined #scheme 17:43:00 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 17:43:08 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:43:55 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.99] has joined #scheme 17:44:09 rudybot: seen jcowan 17:44:09 proq: jcowan was seen in/on #scheme fourteen hours, fifty-four minutes ago, saying "klutometis: for "certain amount o which" read "total"", and then jcowan was seen quitting in/on cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com fourteen hours, fifty-four minutes ago, saying ""Bailing out"" 17:44:44 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 17:47:46 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 17:47:57 -!- gribozavr [n=grib@193.138.147.22] has quit ["    (xchat 2.4.5  )"] 17:48:35 what characteristics must a language have to qualify as a lisp? 17:48:56 for instance, why is lua a lisp? 17:49:01 it must process lists 17:49:04 :) 17:49:27 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:49:41 oh, is that all? :) well then 17:50:27 i dunno ;] 17:52:40 proq: http://3e8.org/pub/the-roots-of-lisp.pdf 17:54:54 thanks :) 17:55:21 -!- dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:04:53 galdor: take a look at srfi-57 and record composition 18:13:19 aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:13:47 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-157-51.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 18:20:57 -!- sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 18:21:48 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:24:57 Armageddon00 [n=danking@129.10.228.88] has joined #scheme 18:25:18 jberg [n=moo@107.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 18:27:21 -!- Armageddon00 [n=danking@129.10.228.88] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:27:57 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:29:57 krat3r [n=krat@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has joined #scheme 18:35:51 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057010.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:37:46 -!- jberg- [n=moo@107.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:06 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:44:48 leppie: Following your post in IronScheme blog (http://xacc.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/ironscheme-does-cps/) - did you use a letrec-to-let conversion to make cps of letrec? 18:45:24 yes, everything down to lambda 18:46:16 but very slow, when i start rewriting my compiler that will become my priority 18:46:20 hi there 18:46:37 Something, like this algorithm: www.cs.indiana.edu/~dgerman/vpcps-intro.pdf 18:46:46 ? 18:47:27 no, as per the definition in the R6RS 18:48:04 can someone tell me what's the difference between vectors and lists in scheme, and which are the advantages that one has over the other 18:48:07 ?? 18:48:41 the same difference between an fixedsize array and a single linked list 18:49:54 humm tnks 18:50:34 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:51:48 graywh [n=graywh@160.129.18.69] has joined #scheme 18:51:58 leppie: So, frankly speaking, you use 'set!' (or something like this) to assign values to variables in letrec? 18:52:10 yes 18:52:20 thnx 18:52:34 i am not aware of a way to do it without set! 18:52:51 how can i do 'and' on the items in a list? 18:54:00 (every identity LIST) ? 18:54:28 or for-all or and-map? ;p 18:54:45 leppie: What's and-map? 18:54:53 i dunno :) 18:54:58 leppie: This paper: www.cs.indiana.edu/~dgerman/vpcps-intro.pdf suggests converting letrec to let via modifying assigned values (i.e. adding extra arguments to lambdas) 18:56:14 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0953.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:56:45 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 18:57:00 leppie: Anyway, using 'set!' seems more convenient 18:57:44 graywh: What kind of 'and'? 18:58:08 graywh: Maybe, you should use some kind of 'fold'? 18:58:45 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.227.177] has left #scheme 19:00:30 sjamaan: http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#9LxHl0iNYkE/guile-ii/guile/Gmodules.scm&q=lang:scheme%20%22and-map%22 19:00:31 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/94b3wl 19:00:32 -!- oSand [n=heartles@118-92-118-248.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:41 so it does exist 19:02:16 "The requested URL /codesearch/javascript:'' was not found on this server." 19:02:30 That's what I get when I open the IFRAME that the page you linked to shows 19:02:51 *sjamaan* hauls out Firefox 19:03:33 Sounds like and-map and or-map are the same as every and any from SRFI-1 19:04:14 But it's older than SRFI-1 19:04:38 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:13:59 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:16:06 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:33 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:24:32 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:57 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-209-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:34:20 Kumool [n=Banano@63.245.38.81] has joined #scheme 19:40:11 z` [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:42:50 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 19:51:53 haole [n=ivan@189.4.157.194] has joined #scheme 19:53:28 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 19:54:09 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-161.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:56 fnpod [n=irchon@116.58.16.121] has joined #scheme 19:59:26 I miss sarahbot 20:02:06 fnpod: the bots are grieving, too 20:02:17 incubot: didn't you have a crush on sarahbot once upon a time? 20:02:19 From what I understand, best in life is To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women! 20:02:52 incubot: dude, i love conan 20:02:54 Quota exceeded, dude. 20:02:57 heh 20:03:31 imcubot: (* 2 2) 20:03:47 incubot: (* 2 2) 20:03:47 4 20:04:23 ircing on an iPod touch. typing sexps is painful 20:05:21 nice; yeah, i tried hacking scheme on the iphone...for about 2 mins 20:10:30 time to zzz 20:11:34 heh. I'll get an iphone when it gets a real keyboard 20:15:17 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-251-219.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:15:25 -!- khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 20:16:24 -!- fnpod [n=irchon@116.58.16.121] has quit [] 20:17:14 hey there... i'm beginning with scheme, and i'm having troubles in the function i'm trying to write... i define some constants in a let, and after the constants i try to define some procedures and one of them uses let inside of it... however, this "second" let won't acknowledge the constants that i defined early... what am i doing wrong? gonna pastebin it soon 20:17:52 http://pastebin.com/d7f12d772 20:18:57 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:20:42 you need to use let* for that 20:20:52 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:05 actually letrec would be fine 20:21:23 ok, gonna study about both of them :D 20:21:34 leppie: but do you know why it didn't work this way? 20:22:27 rewrite that let into a lambda, then you will see the variable are out of scope 20:24:58 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:31:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:34:58 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:34 certaint1 [n=closure@dslc-082-082-128-142.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:36:31 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:54 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:38:38 geckosenator [n=sean@ppp-69-218-241-177.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 20:41:38 -!- JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-065-196-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 20:42:05 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176216079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:14 tjafk [n=timj@e176222236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:44:06 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 20:46:48 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:47:26 -!- certainty [n=closure@dslb-088-070-196-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:49:35 -!- haole [n=ivan@189.4.157.194] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:52:34 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-86.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:53:21 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:58:57 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:01:40 waterh [n=waterh@114.143.36.66] has joined #scheme 21:02:44 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:08:54 isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:11:05 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:11:20 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:50 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 21:13:37 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-065-196-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:14:57 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:09 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:29 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:17:29 nickgibbon [n=nickgibb@CPE-124-191-40-218.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 21:18:56 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 21:19:15 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176222236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:45 tjafk [n=timj@e176196252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:21:11 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:24 Is there a tool that can 'beautify' scheme code (make proper indentation and etc.)? 21:24:12 Mr-Cat: emacs and C-M-\ 21:25:15 proq: Thnx, but are there any non-interactive tools? 21:26:09 astyle perhaps 21:26:16 -!- JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-088-065-196-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 21:27:49 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:28:28 -!- Kumool [n=Banano@63.245.38.81] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:28:32 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:44 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 21:29:18 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:30:58 -!- mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:04 Mr-Cat, M-x indent-region could be made non-interactive 21:31:34 chturne [n=charlie@host86-139-71-1.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:32:28 Seems, that I'll have to learn emacs ))) 21:32:59 how do i generate a list of numbers from 0.10 to 1, each element an increment of 0.10 from the previous? Every time i try CONS with recursion, my adding never works. 21:33:30 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:33:42 chturne, that's roughly it just do it more better and it will work 21:34:09 ok 21:35:54 is it homework? 21:36:07 jberg- [n=moo@107.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 21:36:39 sladegen: if thats for me, no it isn't. It's an excersise the How To Design Programs book. 21:38:07 chturne: same thing... 21:38:24 sladegen: no it isn't. Homework is assigned. I'm doing this independantly. 21:38:37 chturne: same thing... 21:38:43 -!- jberg [n=moo@107.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:46 lisppaste: url 21:41:46 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 21:42:22 hkBst pasted "enumerate integers" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73135 21:42:38 chturne: maybe that will help you 21:43:30 sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 21:46:16 hkBst: Thanks for your time. Unfortunatly I haven't met most of those words in that program, so I can't follow the logic. I'm sure in time I'll figure it out how to this one, hehe. 21:48:04 -!- waterh [n=waterh@114.143.36.66] has quit ["later"] 21:50:05 chturne pasted "create-prices" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73136 21:50:21 is what my functions looks like 21:50:54 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:53:08 mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 21:53:57 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:54:30 -!- dlurf [n=dlurf@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #scheme 21:54:46 chturne: so for ... you want n (create-prices (- n 10) or so 21:55:22 dlurf [n=dlurf@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 21:56:35 -!- jberg- [n=moo@107.80-202-161.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:40 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:58:55 hkBst: no i don't think so, cos for an input of say 10, that would produce (cons 10 empty) whereas I would like (cons price-in-interval (cons price-in-interval-again+0.10 (cons... and so on another 7 times 22:00:26 minion: advise for chturne 22:00:27 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``advise''. 22:00:35 minion: advice for chturne 22:00:35 chturne: #11950: Now you are just being superstitious. 22:01:31 haha 22:02:10 well im going to take my supersitions and cry. I think the best advice is to skip this question and read on. Later it will probably be clear what im not doing 22:03:46 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 22:09:34 -!- mjonsson_ [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-92.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:09:59 mjonsson_ [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-92.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #scheme 22:25:27 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:25:39 Just FYI: C's syntax is obnoxious. 22:26:39 Riastradh: any particular part of it? 22:27:12 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:27:23 Declarations, type specifiers, declarators, type names, qualifiers, pointers, and storage classes. 22:27:31 haha :P 22:27:40 most of those use a fairly straightforward syntax though :) 22:27:44 No, they don't. 22:27:56 hm? 22:27:58 do explain? 22:28:21 Semantically a type is a single entity. Syntactically it is written as a single entity only in some cases, and in most cases is broken into different parts. 22:28:29 Consider, for example, the following horrible fragment: 22:29:04 int (*foo[]) (int foo), bar; 22:29:37 array of function pointers taking an integer and returning an integer, then an integer 22:29:54 but the way pointer syntax works is known to be broken anyway :P 22:29:58 Yes, precisely. But `array of pointers to functions (int -> int)' is a single type. 22:30:00 case in point: char* p, q; 22:30:13 You just can't write it as a single syntactic entity, in most contexts. 22:31:06 Even worse, try pointers to functions returning function pointers! 22:33:00 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:35:00 I don't even know how to write that. I need to write a program to figure it out. 22:45:52 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:46:00 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:49:47 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:03:25 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:07:58 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-209-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:32 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless9.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 23:12:15 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:09 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:15:26 Look at it this way. C++'s syntax is even worse. 23:16:18 Yes,I'm trying hard to be glad that I'm not dealing with C++. 23:18:08 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:20:55 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:25:11 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.199.141] has joined #scheme 23:27:45 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:28:05 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:06 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:17 annodomini [n=lambda@129.170.131.195] has joined #scheme 23:41:56 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DC8A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:42:08 typedef int (*fupp[]) (int); fupp foo, bar; 23:57:15 yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@ludios.net] has joined #scheme