00:01:32 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:01:57 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 00:08:33 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:43 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:52 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.199] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 00:14:00 z` [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:17:04 -!- z` [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 00:19:50 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 00:26:16 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 00:31:45 vixey: that's interesting, too 00:34:40 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:39:38 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 00:40:49 -!- dzhus [n=user@95-24-9-93.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:11 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:15 kryptiskt [n=kryptisk@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:49:13 kryptiskt_ [n=kryptisk@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:49:32 -!- kryptiskt [n=kryptisk@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:50:25 Elly: no reason AFAIK 00:52:36 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:52:57 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:53:43 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=kryptisk@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:55:33 Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:56:23 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:57:50 kryptiskt [n=irc@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:58:10 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:59:49 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.102.129.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:00:07 Mr_Awesome_ [n=eric@pool-98-115-113-166.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:12 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-40-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:21 -!- sctb [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-124-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 01:07:43 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 01:16:00 Riastradh: #; was standarized in R6RS, you might want to update your scheme rules guide. 01:16:29 The guide is great and answered some of my questions before I even asked 01:19:39 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:24:08 Armagedd1n00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:26:25 zbigniew annotated #72923 with "autre" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72923#1 01:28:05 zbigniew: Interesting. 01:28:50 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 01:32:50 I agree. Though I've never found generative `unfold' clear at all, so maybe I'm not part of the target market. 01:33:04 Also, happy new year, y'all. 01:37:25 Daemmerung: Welcome to 2009 2008 dumped you. 01:37:49 Leonidas, no, I don't particularly care to update my guide to reflect the R6RS. 01:39:23 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:49:27 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 01:51:13 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:18 zbigniew annotated #72923 with "&" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72923#2 01:51:43 -!- sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 01:51:50 welcome to dumpsville; population: you 01:53:10 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE6F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:54:16 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEB98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:37 why is it called & ? 01:58:07 Riastradh: I find myself rereading your guide once a year, around the same time that I reread Holmes and Hamlet. 01:58:56 Daemmerung: neither do i, frankly; UNFOLD has always been "caviar to the general" for me 01:59:30 zbigniew: nice; autre is easier on the eyes 02:00:57 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:01:06 klutometis: don't overlook that you can change (lambda (list) (cddr list)) to a simple 'cddr' 02:01:10 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 02:04:42 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:08:36 .oO("caviar to the general"?) 02:09:30 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:09:41 Balita [n=ase23azz@p2203-ipbfp702fukuokachu.fukuoka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:10:27 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:13:32 -!- Balita [n=ase23azz@p2203-ipbfp702fukuokachu.fukuoka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:14:47 klutometis: Wow thats for talking about the style guide I didn't know Riastradh wrote something like that. 02:15:08 Riastradh: Do you mind if I link to your style guide on community scheme wiki? 02:21:37 back to the if-question from before - how would you guys handle a nested if like this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/72930 02:22:29 maodun: only two? 02:22:43 hkBst: maybe more 02:23:22 maodun: it doesn't loook like case, but maybe cond 02:23:37 if not X: return False -----> (and X ...... 02:24:38 call/cc >:] 02:24:49 lol 02:24:50 p1dzkl: oh, I can just include the rest of my code as the second conditional, I like that 02:25:18 s/conditional/condition 02:25:30 maodun: why would you compute x if you're not going to use it? 02:25:41 (unless x is a global) 02:25:48 need more context 02:26:09 presumably `x' is to be used in `... a bunch more stuff ...' ? 02:26:14 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:26:15 yes 02:26:25 jinho [n=jinho@user-387gl9p.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 02:26:44 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEB98.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 02:27:25 what value should `x' have in `... a bunch more stuff ...' in case `char == u"\n"' doesn't hold ? 02:27:43 well, since 'and' returns the second condition - should p1dzkl's solution hold in the general case? 02:27:43 well then, you should move the 'not data' check in your python code to before the x = 1 02:28:03 zbigniew: thanks; that still gets me every now and then 02:28:06 s/should/shouldn't ... i can't type today 02:28:09 offby1: something like "pearls before swine", but more like an indigestible luxury; http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/caviar-general 02:28:43 in Fermat's Primality Test (SICP 1.2.6), the arguments for the function are "n" and "times", where "n" is the number we're testing, and "times" is the number of times we're going to repeat the test- how big should "times" be before you can be pretty sure that you have a prime number? 02:29:07 and 'x = 1' should be  'data = data[1:]', sorry 02:31:08 jinho: for some reason i used 10, but i don't know why; might as well be infinity, if i recall, for carmichael numbers 02:31:30 *ski_* wonders what `data[1:]' means 02:31:53 klutometis: I mean, if you used times = n, would be overkill? 02:32:00 ski_: it's a montyism 02:32:00 would that be* 02:32:17 jinho: what sort of processing time does that result in for large numbers? 02:32:51 klutometis: no clue...I'm still getting used to the idea of probabilistic algorithms... 02:33:45 (klutometis : and what might a "montyism" be ?) 02:33:53 ski_: (substring data 1) 02:34:29 ski_: google for 'monty python' 02:36:02 jinho: try it, then; i imagine it will be untractable for large n 02:36:11 zbigniew : .. and then ? 02:36:32 ski_: then the skit ends abruptly 02:38:05 (maodun : and as zbigniew suggested, we can't do much but guessing, until you provide more of the context) 02:39:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/72931 02:39:51 (zbigniew : i fail to grasp a connection to `data[1:]' .. maybe that means i should go to sleep) 02:40:12 ski_: that is okay, because neither do i 02:40:38 maodun : next time, annotate the original paste .. also, next time use the following url 02:40:42 lisppaste: url 02:40:50 klutometis: duly noted 02:40:52 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 02:41:25 ski_: ok, thanks 02:41:37 maodun : that way, the paste, and annotations, are automatically given in channel 02:41:41 yuck 02:41:49 (i mean links to them are given) 02:42:05 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 02:42:07 ah 02:42:42 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-56.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:43:08 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:21 here is the problem: you are still thinking in python. you should rewrite this algorithm from the ground up in scheme 02:44:50 i know that is facetious, but it is difficult to translate idiomatically directly from one language to another 02:45:35 one can write Fortran in any language 02:45:37 zbigniew: I kind of figured as much. I've mostly been translating in order to learn scheme's syntax. I'll do that then. Thanks. 02:46:12 -!- Mr_Awesome_ [n=eric@pool-98-115-113-166.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:46:51 Mr_Awesome_ [n=eric@pool-98-108-4-133.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:47:10 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:47:11 maodun: have you tried any of the scheme tutorials out there, including SICP? 02:48:14 SICP would help you approach problems in a more Schemely manner, for example 02:48:25 zbigniew: I've read peter siebel's lisp book and some of paul graham's on lisp, but nothing specifically scheme 02:48:26 Just learning scheme syntax would not help you with scheme much. 02:49:07 SICP don't even teach you any syntax, think there was about a paragraph or two devoted to it. 02:49:43 maodun: start here: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-9.html#%_chap_1 02:50:20 yeah - so I've been discovering. This is actually part of a much larger program - an html parser, which uses a set of objects which use python's generators to generate tokens and build the parse tree piece-by-piece. I wrote a defgenerator macro to emulate 'yield' and have been emulating objects with closures, but it feels incredibly wrong. 02:51:03 Even section 1.1 alone is quite interesting. 02:51:21 zbigniew: ok, I'll read this. thanks a lot. 02:51:38 Does it? What's your definition of "object"? 02:51:54 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 02:52:46 dudrenov - by object I mean a class in python 02:52:51 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 02:54:08 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:54:49 maodun: The bad part is it's not immediately practical--although you can get practical html parsing examples alongside it from elsewhere--but if you're interested in Scheme you're probably interested in fundamental concepts rather than just reimplementing another HTML parser 02:56:51 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:03:07 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-56.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:03:36 Biggest problem with HTML parsers I've seen is, you cannot technically stream a document. Its state is poorly defined until if not the last tag, the last few tags. 03:04:04 synx: That's *exactly* the problem my HTML parser solves. 03:04:19 So usually they just load it up as a block in memory. A DOM. So if the page is coming in slowly... you just have to sit there waiting. 03:05:45 foof: It's a problem with HTML itself though. Closing tags and later tags can retroactively affect the previous parts of the document. Ignoring that would be useful sure, and SAX does that. But it would possibly be incorrect. 03:05:56 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Operation timed out] 03:06:25 No, my parser lets you stream and fixes the tree structure on the fly. 03:07:00 Most of the erroneous stuff with streaming HTML ends up to be paragraph alignment and other margins, so it wouldn't matter at all unless you were writing a HTML displayer. 03:07:12 Like how tables sometimes smoosh around while a page is loading in Firefox. 03:07:16 browsers, unless it's a xml based doc, useally parse and render as they go 03:07:25 and back track on errors accordingly 03:07:46 synx: Again, this is a problem I've thought a lot about, and my parser really does solve it. 03:08:05 what so XML is _worse_? 03:09:15 foof: How can you tell if one part of the document is going to be "fixed" when the rest of the page loads? 03:09:46 sounds interesting at least 03:10:09 It just gets the tree structure right - if you were implementing an HTML renderer, contents streamed later could cause resizing or other changes. 03:10:39 XML recuires that it's well formed, etc. sgml based ones, certain error handling is allowed. and that allows you to render as you go. 03:10:50 xml you must have the whole doc before rendering 03:11:03 Oh okay, so it isn't a time machine. Had me worried for a minute there. 03:11:29 ugh, remind me to never use XML like, ever. 03:12:04 synx: never use XML, like, ever. Omigod. Gag me with a spoon. 03:12:15 there exists no other so widely adopted document format though... 03:12:23 *gnomon* runs out of stereotypical valley-girl speech 03:12:33 *dudrenov* picks up his sharpy and writes on synx forhead XML 03:12:48 sharpie even 03:13:04 gnomon: I meant only like forever, not literally forever. 03:13:20 incubot: dtd 03:13:24 *synx* looks at forehead `-`? 03:15:00 *zbigniew* places a U+2767 ROTATED FLORAL HEART BULLET in your brain 03:16:09 U+1814 ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS PRINCE 03:16:46 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:16:54 you tricked me 03:17:34 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has left #scheme 03:17:42 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 03:17:48 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 03:18:16 i'm debugging the output of macroexpand, the code is impossible to read 03:18:18 is there a way to prettyprint ? 03:18:23 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 03:18:39 Most Scheme systems have pretty-printers. Which Scheme are you using? 03:18:43 chicken 03:19:10 the idea solution would be, since i'm in emacs 03:19:14 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:19:14 There probably is a pretty-printer somewhere (at the very least, in an egg, if not included with Chicken), but I don't recall off-hand how to invoke it. 03:19:23 to have the output somehow get filtered to emacs, and have emacsc auto ident it for me 03:19:54 er, (pretty-print x)? 03:20:19 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 03:21:45 or (pp x) if prefer the more scatological invocation 03:21:58 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:22:23 *gasp* 03:22:28 he said "pp" 03:22:31 *offby1* giggles 03:23:01 hml: believe me, if the output is at all large, you don't want Emacs doing the indentation 03:23:38 offby1: U+0902 03:24:29 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 03:24:51 *offby1* chuckels 03:24:54 *offby1* chuckles 03:25:03 some people can tell 'em; some people can't 03:25:14  03:25:54  03:26:09 *zbigniew* brushes his screen off 03:26:17 how did you make that symbol 03:26:34 well, jonrafkind, when a man and a woman love each other very much... 03:26:46 I can't see a damned thing. 03:26:52  03:26:58 wtf is that 03:27:19 That's odd. 03:27:32 jonrafkind: in Emacs, I M-x ucs-insert RET 902 RET. (I also typed C-q 902 RET, but that relies on a non-standard setting to work) 03:27:40 oh of course :p 03:28:34 In 'ucs' input mode, you can also type U902. 03:31:35 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:31:48 the font I use wont render it :( 03:32:04 here's a nickel, kid; get yourself a better font 03:32:42 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 03:36:10 A nickel? Thanks for nothing! I got kids to feed! 03:37:58 And English to learns! 03:38:31 me fail english? &c. 03:38:47 Yes, English is not my first language. 03:39:06 -!- Armagedd1n00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:39:14 -!- Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:34 Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:40 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 03:40:19 -!- Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:40:22 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-164-7.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:42 That's okay. Normally you have to be with a few languages before you find the one you want to settle down with. 03:41:08 I are good at engrish. 03:41:59 wait. 03:42:02 My spoken English is decent, but my writing skills are pour at best, in any language! 03:42:04 I am good at english. 03:42:22 I use emacs to get better at english . improve-writing-mode 03:42:51 no such mode on my copy of eamcs 03:45:06 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:45:28 what do you call someone's who's monolingual? a native English speaker 03:45:33 *someone 03:45:38 native language speaker of one language 03:46:07 the joke is that Anglophones are notoriously bad about learning other languages 03:46:15 Adamant: see IRONY 03:46:20 Adament: what do you call someone who make's jokes about monolinguals? 03:46:30 zbigniew: ouch 03:46:39 apostrophic failure 03:47:02 man, #scheme is getting brutal these days 03:47:51 Adamant: like Riastradh he keeps on talking about learning another language. 03:47:59 Adamant: I am pretty horrible too. 03:48:24 I'm only a polyglot for computer languages unfortunately 03:48:26 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:48:27 When you know more then 3 languages, you start mixing them up. 03:53:27 dudrenov: Than? 03:53:49 heh, yes. 03:55:15 I passed far beyond the point where I'd be offended by people making fun of my spelling on IRC. Corrections are gladly accepted, but thinks like "Learn English" are just silly. 03:55:25 fortunately, scheme is not a detriment as english prepositions are, as the name suggests, already in prefix position 03:55:33 I am learning English that's why I'm chating with you in English. 03:56:13 dudrenov: Seeing that you are chatting in English, I think you've gone beyond learning and into practicing ;) 03:56:52 Practice is just advanced learning. 03:56:54 dudrenov: your english is better than my scheme 03:57:26 I can speak a little Japanese... a little less Spanish. Coincidental languages are a lot harder on my brain than constructed ones... 03:57:39 I'm sure that your scheme is better then mine. 03:57:59 dudrenov: is just silly. 03:58:18 I speak 4 languages fluently. 03:58:27 s/4/3.5/ 03:58:58 dudrenov: Which ones? Scheme, common lisp , haskell and ml? 03:59:04 I write well in none. 03:59:11 http://paste.lisp.org/display/72932 <-- please help; if you can help me && you're a single, young, smart, attractive, young female, I'll considering getting coffee with you 03:59:18 r2q2 I ment human spoken languages 03:59:29 I heard the third language is easier, after mastering your second. I never made it that far though, it's like trying to run through molasses. 03:59:31 dudrenov: I was being sarcastic. Which human spoken languages? 03:59:53 sarcasm is wasted on me :p 03:59:59 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 04:00:05 hml: I am a single, young, smart , attractive male. I don't want coffee with you. 04:00:08 Bulgarian, Russian, English, Spanish. 04:00:09 Well, that rules out this channel. 04:00:23 The third language is easier if it's related to the second. 04:00:36 I assume everyone in here is a dog or a bot. 04:00:39 zbigniew: Except for evoli, emma, and medfly. I think the last two don't come here that often. 04:00:46 r2q2: the && short circuits; helping me is required even before evaluating the second part 04:01:08 && ? 04:01:53 hml What is &&? 04:01:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/72932 <-- please help; if you can help me && you're a single, young, smart, attractive, young female, I'll considering getting coffee with you 04:02:05 OH 04:02:25 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180065146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:02:41 Doubly young? What are you getting at, hml? Does Andrew Cuomo need to know about you? 04:03:05 dudrenov: Of each of those languages, do you know anyone else who speaks it fluently? 04:03:25 -!- greyface [n=greyface@94-69.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 04:03:28 hmm, humor has failed me; let's try this instead: 04:03:28 Can you lisppaste a complete example that exhibits the problem and that someone else can use to reproduce the problem? 04:03:36 Yes, for shame hml 04:03:39 Young young females should not be drinking coffee. 04:03:54 Riastradh: ah, taht is what I should do; hacking on that now 04:04:42 hml: What is it supposed to do? provide an assertion and see if they are equal to each other and return #t or #f ? 04:04:58 I mean test the equality of two assertions? 04:05:02 hml: uh... ''environment, would that resolve to '' and environment? 04:05:08 hang on, let me do what riastradh suggested, get a single screenful of code that gets this working 04:05:14 I've never seen '' in scheme before. 04:05:24 rudybot: eval (car ''foo) 04:05:25 Riastradh: ; Value: quote 04:07:00 synx: this often happens when one passes a quoted symbol into a macro which expects an unquoted one 04:07:40 oh so it's (quote (quote foo)) not (quote quote) foo. Okay. 04:07:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/72933 04:07:47 the first assertion passes, the second fails 04:07:50 i'm baffled as to why 04:07:50 this is why I try to avoid macros... 04:08:29 hml: Which implementation is this? 04:08:35 chicken 04:08:39 What child is this? 04:08:55 Mine 04:09:00 Does anone have a quicksort handy that will sort vectors of pairs of integers by the first element of each pair? 04:09:00 hml: annotate your existing pastes please. 04:09:29 bombshelter13: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-32/ 04:09:34 bombshelter13: wouldn't any sort algorithm do that? 04:09:44 hml, presumably you meant to return DISPATCH from CREATE-ENVIRONMENT? 04:09:44 typically you can define the < operation with any procedure of two arguments. 04:09:48 offby1: I've got a quicksort but it expects real numbes :/ 04:09:58 bombshelter13: then that's a surprisingly-limited sort 04:09:58 i'm an idiot 04:10:10 offby1: well, it was the first one i found. ;) 04:10:20 bombshelter13: isn't there one built in to your implementation? 04:10:26 bombshelter13: SRFI-32 is withdrawn but you could use that. 04:10:47 r2q2: What does 'withdrawn' mean in this context? 04:11:09 bombshelter13: let me google that for you 04:11:29 50% of the time it means you avoided forking a child process. 04:12:04 bombshelter13: see http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-process.html process # 4-5 04:12:28 *offby1* glowers at zbigniew 04:12:39 bombshelter13: It will work. 04:12:52 r2q2: I'll look at that, thanks 04:13:19 bombshelter13: Oh wait srfi-95 is in final status 04:13:24 bombshelter13: NVM probably use that. 04:13:36 okie, looking up documentation on that instead then 04:13:48 No need let me past the url 04:13:49 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-95/srfi-95.html 04:14:00 r2q2: never trust any SRFI over 30. 04:14:40 `Withdrawn' (by Olin Shivers) means that the author didn't have enough time to work out the last remaining 1% of the issues with the SRFI, so several years later someone else screwed up 50% of it in a new one and finalized it. 04:14:52 Hm, looks like I may need to update my mzscheme to get it, doesn't look like I have 95... *updates it* 04:15:29 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:17:01 zbigniew: Yea I know. 04:17:12 zbigniew: I forgot about that that some of the higher srfi's were crap. 04:17:38 oops take back yea I know because I really didn't know. 04:17:46 'finalized', by the way, sometimes means "widely adopted within the Scheme community and then gratuitously reimplemented in an incompatible way by R6RS' 04:17:59 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:17:59 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:18:48 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 04:18:51 -!- jinho [n=jinho@user-387gl9p.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 04:19:25 my, we're all snarky tonight. 04:20:01 Not me. I'm full of Gemuetlichwhatsit. 04:20:28 anyone want to summarize the contents of the mailing list archive for why srfi 12 is now withdrawn? 04:20:56 Condition handling is hard. 04:21:05 *foof* goes shopping 04:22:03 does 'condition' and 'exception' in this case mean the same thing? if not, why is exception handling withdrawn rather than just ahve the condition handling part ripped out 04:22:42 Some draw a distinction between the two terms. 04:22:43 *offby1* invents a new concept to go along with condition and exception: "situation" 04:22:45 y'all like it? 04:23:24 In SRFIs 12, 34, 35, and 36, I think that `exception' is a situation that requires handling, and a `condition' is an object describing an exceptional situation. 04:26:16 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:26:33 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:30:24 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 04:35:27 Hmm, I've updated but still can't figure out how to get srfi 95 :/ 04:44:04 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["new year, new Emacs"] 04:51:27 rudybot: eval (sort '((1 . a) (3 . b) (2 . c) (0 . d)) (lambda (x y) (< (car x) (car y)))) 04:51:28 zbigniew: ; Value: ((0 . d) (1 . a) (2 . c) (3 . b)) 04:51:45 rudybot: eval (require (lib "32.ss" "srfi")) 04:51:59 rudybot: eval (vector-sort (lambda (x y) (< (car x) (car y))) '#((1 . a) (3 . b) (2 . c) (0 . d))) 04:52:00 zbigniew: ; Value: #((0 . d) (1 . a) (2 . c) (3 . b)) 04:53:42 oddly, the arguments to vector-sort are in the opposite order to what I would expect 04:54:31 huh... that looks very similar to what I was doing, gonne line em up and see what the difference is. 04:54:40 s/gonne/gonna 04:55:24 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:56:13 zbigniew: the data is the last argument for hysterical raisins. In inline code I agree it reads better when the code is the last arg. From the commentary in the SRFI I gather that different impls differ. 04:56:27 The sortin' SRFI, I mean. 04:56:41 there ain't room enough in this town fer the both of us 04:56:50 Huh. Only difference in syntax from the vector-sort example was that i was trying to use the desctuctive version :/ 04:57:01 *Daemmerung* switches from sortin' whiskey to fightin' whiskey 04:58:22 Daemmerung: you mean, the documentation to SRFI 32 mentions that historical implementations of sort use different argument orders? Or that implementations of SRFI 32 do? 04:59:12 The former. 04:59:39 Or maybe it was the associated rabbinical commentaries on the discussion-list. I forget. 04:59:56 Daemmerung: but the doc to SRFI 32 says vector-sort is (vector-sort v <) 05:00:29 and the vector-sort from srfi/32.ss in mzscheme is (vector-sort < v) 05:01:47 *zbigniew* is confusèd 05:02:06 Looks like a bug to me. 05:02:18 *offby1* hurls his glass at the floor 05:02:30 *offby1* hurls his dentures at mbishop 05:02:33 Bugs, Mr Zbigniew! 05:02:52 Daemmerung, I'm a doctor, not an entomologist! 05:03:13 Heh. 05:04:58 *mbishop* is lucky he was releasing all those bugs, or else those dentures might have hit him 05:05:34 offby1, you have bugs in your teeth. Or teeth in your bugs. 05:06:24 I drive fast. 05:07:33 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 05:09:36 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:13:12 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 05:19:39 zbigniew: your command of esoteric unicode is astounding 05:20:19 Motoko_Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:20:40 -!- mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:20:40 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:20:40 -!- inhortte [i=polaris@fucksheep.org] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:20:40 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:20:40 -!- djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-016-166.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:20:40 -!- offby1 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wasabi_________3 [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:24:19 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 05:24:19 Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 05:24:19 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 05:24:19 peyt [n=pete@li6-11.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 05:24:19 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #scheme 05:25:10 I did invent the question mark 05:25:58 By the way, if you're on OS X, this is a fun application: http://earthlingsoft.net/UnicodeChecker/ 05:28:28 -!- inhortte [i=polaris@fucksheep.org] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:28:28 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:28:28 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:28:28 -!- mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:28:28 -!- 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Work beckons, and I must obey! 05:33:50 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:39:31 What's zune? 05:39:42 foof: zune is zinished after the leap bug 05:40:03 All in all, it's just another brick in the wall. 05:42:11 Ick, even if it weren't buggy that algorithm is slow and ugly as hell... 05:42:39 What algorithm? 05:42:46 http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/zune-news/38143-cause-zune-30-leapyear-problem-isolated.html 05:42:47 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/9b4hmy 05:45:58 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:46:11 I'm tempted, but can't persuade myself, to have sympathy for the, oh, about five people who are bummed out by this. It was their faults for buying Zunes in the first place. 05:47:39 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-118.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 05:49:22 People buy zunes? 05:49:41 I thought they buy the empty shell and use it to hide an ipod. 05:50:09 Well, at least someone must have bought a Zune in order to notice it become a brick. 05:51:14 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:51:36 rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 05:53:36 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 05:54:21 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 05:54:51 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:54:55 Yea his name is bill gates. 05:55:54 Anyways 05:56:11 enough about misplaced relations 05:56:25 its stupid. everyone knows.... 05:57:24 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:59:11 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 06:00:20 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 06:00:49 rudybot: eval (>= 365 366) 06:00:49 r2q2: ; Value: #f 06:01:00 rudybot: eval (> 365 366) 06:01:00 r2q2: ; Value: #f 06:01:12 rudybot: eval m$ 06:01:13 r2q2: error: reference to undefined identifier: m$ 06:01:17 rudybot: eval 'm$ 06:01:17 r2q2: ; Value: m$ 06:11:05 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 06:17:42 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:52:08 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 07:00:07 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:05:50 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:06:09 bpalmer [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #scheme 07:10:15 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:12:53 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:14:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:21:48 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 07:28:41 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-147-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:32:57 -!- dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:36:58 Is there a way, in PLT, to make doing something like (map display '("Items: " 5)) not print (# #) afterwards? I.E, i just want to apply the map, not print it's return values. 07:42:07 (begin (map ...) nil) ? 07:42:23 #f, rather. 07:43:16 Does the trick, thanks! 07:45:28 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:45:42 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 07:48:22 phrx [n=me@pool-98-108-147-99.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:54:53 bombshelter13, (for-each display ...) applies a function without returning a value 08:03:35 jonrafkind: even easier, thanks 08:09:42 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:17:43 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-225-187.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 08:27:34 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 08:42:01 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054DC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:53:40 chturne [n=charlie@host86-164-146-181.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 08:55:33 if your expected input for a function is number, how to you pretend it's a list? I want say 103 to be my input, and my output should be (cons 1 (cons 'pound (cons 3 (cons 'pence empty)))). 08:56:05 chturne, you can use '() instead of empty 08:59:01 vixey: ? I'm haven't come across that notation before. In my definition, I want to be able to say (first my-input) and have it tell me it's 1 if the input was (my-function 103) 08:59:18 so you want to turn a number into a list of digits? 08:59:26 bpalmer: yes 08:59:38 chturne, by the way, your list (1 pound 3 pence) is a bit tricky 08:59:45 I suggest to go for: 08:59:52 ((pound . 1) (pence . 3)) at first 09:00:02 but once you have _that_, you can easily turn it into (1 pound 3 pence) 09:00:24 to get a list of digits, an easy way would be to just recursively do division-and-remainder for powers of 10 09:00:45 chturne, assuming here, the idea is 103 = 1 * 100 + 3 * 1 (100 = pound, 1 = pence), right? 09:02:00 vixey: yes, i think i know what to do now :) 09:02:00 one momeny 09:03:35 (print 103) 09:03:35 '(1 pound 3 pence) 09:03:35 > (print 2103) 09:03:37 '(21 pound 3 pence) 09:03:38 like that? 09:03:56 i've been having trouble sleeping 09:04:11 how does this work? 09:04:26 you can use QUOTIENT and REMAINDER 09:04:51 im doing this now :) 09:04:56 duncanm, you aren't the only one 09:05:12 and if use quasiquoting, it's much easier to write than a bunch of CONS 09:05:40 *vixey* was gonna trick them into taking a list like ((pound . 100) (pence 1)) as a parameter 09:05:44 the interesting thing would be to add support for shillings, farthings, ha'pennies, and the other esoteric sizes. 09:05:51 bpalmer, right :) 09:06:02 bpalmer: dealing with the plural -s is annoying too 09:06:31 duncanm: heh, thats in the problem statement too by the way :D 09:08:21 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:10:57 > (print-money 100) ;=> '(1 pound 0 pence) 09:10:57 > (print-money 200) ; => '(2 pounds 0 pence) 09:10:57 > (print-money 299) ; => '(2 pounds 99 pences) 09:11:05 this is so silly 09:11:09 hehe 09:12:14 i choose "pence" cos you don't need the plural duncanm ;) 09:12:22 oh 09:12:23 pennies 09:12:42 nah, pence is fine :P 09:12:42 or cents 09:12:45 either way 09:12:49 the code is easy to write 09:12:56 im done now 09:13:05 haven't got the plural bits finished yet 09:13:13 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 09:16:33 duncanm: did you use a COND in your list to determine plurals? 09:17:10 this is what i did 09:17:12 http://pastebin.com/m6de5f91e 09:17:25 chturne: i used IF, but that's the same as COND 09:17:57 ah, haven't seen that yet. Thanks for everyones help. 09:20:02 chturne: my version is a little nicer looking, because i used LIST instead of CONS 09:21:23 duncanm pasted "print-money" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72943 09:22:30 it feels like a bit of a shame, quotient and remainder being calculated separately 09:22:47 it's really the one algorithm... which does them both at once 09:23:15 but R5RS has no quotient/remainder procedure which gives both values though..... 09:23:20 duncanm: oh, thanks duncan. I wonder whoose is more efficient :P 09:24:04 probably doesn't matter for such a simple procedure 09:24:41 vixey: yeah, that'd be nice 09:25:11 vixey: since the language has built-in support for multiple values return too 09:25:27 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #scheme 09:25:42 I can't remember if I actually ever /used/ multiple values but they are really interesting (implementation wise) 09:27:14 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054DC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:27:44 OMFG. I actually had been thinking about that problem for ages, and then when someone here recommended to use QUOTIENT and REMAINDER the solution was obvious.... I read 3 more fsking lines down, and guess what, QUOTIENT and REMAINDER are described ! 09:28:49 vixey: it's useful when you need it 09:39:46 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:42:08 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:52:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-225-187.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:00:09 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-164-7.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 10:11:53 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 10:14:01 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:34 barney [n=bernhard@p549A01CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:43:30 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-139-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 10:44:30 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-150-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:44:32 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 10:45:00 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-092-074-126-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:47:51 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 10:55:45 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:00:25 wartalker1 [n=wartalke@222.129.31.218] has joined #scheme 11:00:46 mit-scheme nil is not supported 11:00:56 someone help 11:02:16 wartalker1: just use '(); or (define nil '()) 11:04:08 klutometis: thanks 11:05:50 wartalker1: sicp? 11:06:20 dzhus [n=user@93.81.188.8] has joined #scheme 11:06:25 klutometis: yes 11:13:23 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:13:48 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.116.244] has joined #scheme 11:14:51 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 11:28:29 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEB98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:39:37 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:52:12 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 12:00:41 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:28 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2095.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:08:56 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-182-174-47.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 12:09:08 Is there a build in function to insert an element to the end of the list? 12:10:21 not that its hard to implement but was just wondering 12:25:41 kiri [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-176-144-12.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 12:26:23 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-182-174-47.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:30:57 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:36 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 12:31:50 -!- wartalker1 [n=wartalke@222.129.31.218] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:33:35 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A01CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:35:27 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:44:19 -!- glorybox [n=ssinkovs@195.238.191.213] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:29 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 12:53:19 barney [n=bernhard@p549A01CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 12:54:22 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:03:55 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:08:22 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:16:28 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:17:51 benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:25:50 glorybox [n=ssinkovs@195.238.191.213] has joined #scheme 13:32:07 -!- kiri is now known as Tankado 13:33:35 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:35:11 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:21 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 13:40:42 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:41:13 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 13:44:44 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 13:47:54 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-180.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 13:48:17 Tankado: like APPEND, or something else? 13:48:35 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 13:50:21 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:54:25 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:54:30 klutometis : nvm i made a simple one myself, thanks anyway 13:56:51 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:58:46 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-176-144-12.red.bezeqint.net] has left #scheme 14:05:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-180.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:10:08 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 14:12:25 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 14:12:46 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:33:39 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:47 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:41:29 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:43:09 -!- glorybox [n=ssinkovs@195.238.191.213] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:44:31 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 14:48:26 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:50:36 greyface [n=greyface@234-206.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 14:54:58 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:59:06 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 14:59:23 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 15:04:31 sjamaan: SYN 15:05:30 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:10:55 -!- dzhus [n=user@93.81.188.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:11:21 dzhus [n=user@93.81.188.8] has joined #scheme 15:17:24 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:06 benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 15:20:26 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 15:20:41 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:26:29 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 15:47:26 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-30-250.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:47:42 hi 15:56:56 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-176-144-12.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 15:57:07 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:02:40 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:03:37 isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:03:40 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-176-144-12.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:04:56 rtra_ [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 16:06:46 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:54 Archville [n=arc@178.Red-83-39-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:07:56 Hi 16:08:25 quick one, what's the difference between procedures such as "take" and "take!" or "drop" and "drop!" ? 16:08:36 the manual says, it's a linear update variant 16:08:45 but i don't really know what that exactly means 16:08:46 There is no DROP!, but TAKE! is permitted to destroy its argument. 16:08:52 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 16:09:00 i'm trying it on mzscheme 16:09:07 See . 16:09:17 yep, that's what i was reading 16:09:26 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 16:09:28 > (define x '(20 30 40)) 16:09:28 > (take! x 2) 16:09:28 (20 30) 16:09:28 > x 16:09:29 (20 30 40) 16:09:33 that's what confuses me 16:09:47 Don't pass literal constants to TAKE!. 16:09:47 isn't x supossed to be (20 30) after take! ? 16:09:53 No. 16:09:54 ah 16:10:09 X shouldn't be a literal constant, and its value may be arbitrarily scribbled over by TAKE!. 16:10:24 TAKE! could leave X as (FOOBAR FISHMONGER) if it so desired. 16:10:38 This is a perfectly valid definition of TAKE!: 16:10:43 (define (take! list count) 16:10:46 (let ((result (take list count))) 16:10:53 (set-car! list 'FOOBAR) (set-cdr! list 'FISHMONGER) 16:10:54 result)) 16:11:05 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:10 uhmm 16:11:44 then if i'm writing a scheme interpreter i can just define "take!" exactly the same as "take" ? 16:12:01 Yes, that works too. But why would you write your own definition, rather than using the reference implementation of SRFI 1? 16:12:14 because i'm writing all procedures in C# 16:12:18 not Scheme itself 16:12:25 Why on earth would you do that!?? 16:12:41 efficiency 16:13:08 You will spend more time rewriting code in C# than you will lose by waiting for a program using TAKE to complete in your slow interpreter. 16:13:27 i don't care about rewriting them 16:13:34 it's a cool thing in the proccess of learning 16:13:46 :) 16:14:35 OK. 16:14:48 Archville: you will find most procs easy to write in Scheme, im busy doing that for a lot of C# procs in IronScheme 16:15:22 yep, it's easy to write them in Scheme 16:15:50 and efficient when the interpreter compiles to IL (like yours) 16:16:08 lucky my compiler is close to the speed of C# if I had written it in C# 16:16:31 :D 16:17:02 well there is quite a lot of scope for improvement by using better closure structures 16:17:37 but the DLR is not so nice in that area, still looking to see if I can modify it to my needs 16:18:07 i prefer the naive approach 16:18:09 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:18:14 using the DLR is too complex for me 16:18:34 however it yields better results, and speed 16:19:07 i feel it's a bit too python centric 16:19:17 i analyze closures and do some basic things like lambda lifting but i can't get close to the benchmarks for IronScheme 16:19:22 ideally for ver 2 i will rewrite that from scratch :) 16:19:27 but it's fun to try :) 16:19:50 i made some nice improvements lately with a cheap optimization I found 16:19:58 the DLR... at least from what i've seen... it's nice 16:20:13 if you are going to write an interpreter for Ruby, Perl, Python... 16:20:24 or maybe Javascript 16:20:47 for Lisp-like languages, it hurts my head :P 16:24:52 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:24:56 it would be possible to write a scheme like language using LINQ 16:25:22 Archville: do you know any F#? 16:25:37 not much 16:25:48 i know it's related to Ocaml and such languages 16:25:57 im tempted to rewrite my compiler using that 16:26:00 it would be fun to try writing a toy interpreter in it 16:26:08 but I have not used it at all 16:26:12 mmmm 16:26:21 for the DLR too ? 16:26:42 no, you use their compiler framework then :) 16:27:00 from what I can see, very similar semantics to Scheme 16:27:02 F# looks interesting 16:27:30 maybe go 1 step further, and 1 less for effort, and make it a typed Scheme 16:27:50 statically typed that is 16:27:50 recursive types, closures, type inference with all the nice libraries of .NET 16:28:47 typed Scheme is ok, at least the one that comes with PLT Scheme 16:29:13 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:30:38 aardvarc [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has joined #scheme 16:35:06 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 16:41:57 vasa [n=vasa@mm-54-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 16:42:04 kenjin_ [n=kenjin@210.223.99.210] has joined #scheme 16:42:40 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 16:44:33 -!- kenjin_ [n=kenjin@210.223.99.210] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 16:44:38 -!- aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has quit [Network is unreachable] 16:45:49 aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has joined #scheme 16:46:40 kenjin [n=kenjin@210.223.99.210] has joined #scheme 16:48:37 -!- aardvarc [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:53:04 I need an implementation that has a decent debugger other than DrScheme. 16:53:15 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0560D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:54:16 Gambit 16:54:38 But it might help if you defined `decent' and enumerated your problems w/ Dr 16:55:33 You mean DrScheme? 16:57:39 Scheme48 and MIT Scheme also have pretty interesting debuggers. 16:58:32 qen [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 16:58:46 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:59:00 -!- qen is now known as Guest77826 16:59:06 Thank you, I'll try them 17:04:53 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:34 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:08:03 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 17:08:46 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:09:31 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:14:39 rm -f FixNums.cs :) 17:19:33 -!- greyface [n=greyface@234-206.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 17:20:35 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:22:42 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the 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has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:59:58 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:35 klutometis: ACK 20:08:51 (but afk soon) 20:11:47 No, no, sjamaan! 20:12:09 ? 20:12:09 The response to a SYN is a SYN ACK. *Then* klutometis replies with an ACK. 20:12:18 Ach, of course! 20:12:43 what does SYN stand for? 20:13:14 synchronize? 20:13:32 sjamaan: You mean "ACK, of course!" don't you? 20:13:37 :) 20:16:18 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 20:16:30 *mejja* \026\006 20:19:30 *sjamaan* afk 20:27:58 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-201-40-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:39 certaint1 [n=closure@dslb-088-070-203-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:32 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-40-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 20:37:31 -!- chturne [n=charlie@host86-164-146-181.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:09 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:45:45 mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 20:46:35 -!- certainty [n=closure@dslb-088-070-040-123.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:18 Is there a definition for prefered library file extentions for R6RS? Someone mentioned to me "sls" is for libraries and "sps" for programs. Is this officially or semi-officielly stated anywhere? 20:47:25 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 20:49:24 *mejja* recommends ".silly" 20:50:27 -!- Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:51:24 mdmkolbe: look at the implementations to find out what subset of extensions is supported; I know from experience that .sls works for Ikarus, Ypsilon, PLT and Larceny 20:51:58 incubot: Silly! 20:51:58 *gnomon* recommends ".this-is-the-default-extension-for-scheme-programs-as-used-my-mdmkolbe" and ".this-is-the-default-extension-for-scheme-libraries-as-used-by-mdmkolbe", respectively 20:52:00 that page is hardly an exposition of usability crimes of PDF, and it is mostly inaccurate as well, even when it is not irrelevant. The linearity of PDFs is often intended, as it is, for example, in this problem set description; the 'jarring user experience' might be found in any software anyone ever used, and 'crashes and software problems' is just silly to claim as a drawback of PDF; &c. 20:52:02 sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:52:03 mdmkolbe: program extensions are not as important, as they do not need to be mapped to library names 20:52:04 rotty: you can add the new versions of Chez to that list once it comes out 20:53:04 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:53:11 mdmkolbe: ah, nice 20:53:43 rotty: yes, except that as a library developer (1) I don't want my users to have to rename the files I distribute and (2) I want an excuse (i.e. point to some standard) that I can use if users do have to rename any files ;-) 20:59:46 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:06:40 regulate [i=regulate@notchill.com] has joined #scheme 21:19:16 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:20:03 Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:21:22 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 21:23:24 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:34:06 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:35:33 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:39:09 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 21:41:50 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-251-219.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:47:13 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:49:08 benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 21:51:19 annodomini_ [n=lambda@erlang.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:51:19 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 21:52:36 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-251-219.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:55:06 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 21:56:17 annodomini_ [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 21:57:33 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:59:42 M-AO-CUBO [n=aa@89-180-27-243.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 22:05:17 kryptiskt [n=irc@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:14:36 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:40 gribozavr [n=grib@193.138.147.22] has joined #scheme 22:17:17 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:18:53 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:20:36 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:21:37 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:27:54 k [n=aa@89.180.22.231] has joined #scheme 22:28:23 -!- k is now known as Guest97963 22:32:27 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 22:33:14 -!- M-AO-CUBO [n=aa@89-180-27-243.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:35:36 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-128-105.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 22:36:01 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:11 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-139-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:36:13 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 22:36:16 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:40:25 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 22:40:26 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:45:21 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:50:00 -!- mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 22:58:44 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:02:24 sjamaan: ACK. Why did you resort to bizarre sxml-match constructs for selecting children and attributes when, say, ((sxpath '((*not* @))) content) and ((sxpath '(@)) content) might have sufficed? 23:03:20 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.171] has joined #scheme 23:06:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:09:32 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:28 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:14:20 benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 23:16:33 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:19:48 *offby1* will bet: because he didn't know he could do that 23:20:02 sxpath is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, on a bed of crisp lettuce 23:21:04 *johnnowak* secretes italian dressing 23:21:47 *mejja* ponders twelve monkeys on the telly 23:22:22 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:22:39 benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 23:29:33 exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.74.182] has joined #scheme 23:32:05 LAMBDA is syntax 23:32:06 not a procedure 23:32:12 wfm with guile 23:32:46 guile> (begin (define x ( (x) (* x x))) (x 5)) => 25 23:33:08 proq: Please, I'm eating leftover roquefort... 23:33:26 precede that with: guile> (define  lambda) if you're not familiar with the original comment 23:34:05 mejja: I don't know if I should be envious or sympathetic 23:35:46 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-54-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:36:32 guile is an unusual scheme 23:36:34 guile> (define (foo x) (write x)) 23:36:35 guile> (foo lambda) 23:36:37 #guile> 23:38:43 there are more unusual schemes than usual ones 23:40:56 you could have just done: guile> lambda => # 23:43:19 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:43:51 No. 23:49:32 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:13 -!- melito [n=melito@c-71-197-146-242.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:56 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 23:56:41 offby1: that sums up all of xml for me, actually; sxpath, i thought, made xpath just slightly more tolerable 23:58:14 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0560D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]