00:04:35 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:06:28 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:08:18 -!- andr3n [i=blogger_@217.129.2.137] has quit [] 00:09:59 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 00:11:44 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:08 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-132-109.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 00:13:17 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 00:13:58 sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 00:15:18 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:24:09 offby2 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 00:26:33 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:26:37 -!- offby2 is now known as offby1 00:26:44 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:27:41 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-135-72.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:34:27 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C430AF.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:37:16 -!- dzhus [n=user@95-24-29-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:12 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 00:40:18 -!- alp2 [n=alp2@host76-219-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 00:42:27 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055BB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:44:01 -!- qen [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:12 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-222-54-6.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 00:51:47 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:01:41 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-166-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:08:21 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 01:14:39 synx: what's wrong with bias? bias makes the world go 'round 01:14:51 you would have to be a monster or a god to banish bias, but not a man 01:15:23 and it would certainly make for dull reading 01:17:06 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 01:23:22 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:19 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:25:26 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-222-54-6.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:26:37 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-156-71-107.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:22 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:32:36 Fare [n=Fare@bas2-montreal45-1242554703.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 01:36:07 *klutometis* thanks "${god}" that SICP is not unbiased 01:37:06 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 01:37:35 -!- sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 01:37:54 "biased"? I didn't know that is a synonym for "insightful". 01:37:55 define: biased 01:38:39 How many of you have done _all_ exercises of the book? 01:39:08 melito [n=melito@c-71-197-146-242.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:39:26 dudrenov: you're the only one who still has to do quite a few of them 01:39:33 I've done all up to chapter 5. Soon I'm gonna pick it up again and do all exercises of chapter 5. 01:43:43 dudrenov: got up to 5.5; need to do that last translation of the metacirc into a low level language 01:44:02 been meaning to set aside a few weeks; i've heard the median is about 3 weeks 01:44:34 hkBst: indeed; it sometimes is 01:45:01 I got to chapter 5, and then work wife, work etc. needed my attention so I have not touched it for 2-3 months. But have to pick it up again soon. 01:45:21 name [n=name@chello062178002083.1.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 01:45:28 hkBst: i was mainly responding to synx's assertion that SICP is romantically biased about tail recursion 01:45:30 The end of chapter 4 took me almost a month. 01:45:44 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:00 i wonder what synx thinks of sussman on the amb operator, to which he attributes certain metaphysical powers and access to parallel universes 01:46:03 And I'm still somewhat unhappy with my environment based solution for the query language 01:46:07 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:46:22 dudrenov: why's that? 01:46:32 i did an environment based; seemed to do the trick 01:46:35 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:46:42 if i'm thinking of the same problem set 01:46:50 I think I liked the stream one better 01:47:10 oh, interesting 01:47:26 The amb stuff was a lot of fun and the evaluator was easy actually. 01:48:56 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 01:49:42 The funny thing was, that you read about amb in the beginning and you are like "wow this is amazing how does it work? Must be something ingenius design"; later when you look at the implementation you realize it's just passing continuations. 01:50:08 I guess the simplicity of it is what's so ingenius. 01:50:48 dudrenov: nevertheless, amb is still magical; i wield it like a talismen when dealing with certain decision problems 01:51:24 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 01:53:39 klutometis: agreed 01:53:49 where does sussman speak about amb? 01:54:07 it's not in the videos. 01:54:14 Look at the online version of the book 01:54:22 I think it's chapter 4.3 01:55:24 klutometis: I was thinking, when I get some free time, to pick up "To mock a mockingbird" and try and solve all the puzzles in that book using amb. 01:55:39 If I'll ever actually have the time is another story. 01:56:58 dudrenov: great idea, actually; you would certainly be an amb-jedi 01:57:30 (amb) 01:58:35 heh 02:00:38 -!- melito [n=melito@c-71-197-146-242.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:00:42 melito [n=melito@c-71-197-146-242.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:07:14 -!- dudrenov [n=user@h-67-101-217-41.snfccasy.covad.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:08:13 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE30A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:37 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE493.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:01 hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 02:15:06 -!- hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Client Quit] 02:15:31 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-f600d5e645dcffcd] has joined #scheme 02:16:39 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:17:49 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has left #scheme 02:17:54 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:43:27 i skipped the last few exercises in 5.5 as well... also that one that said 'a good answer is probably worth a Ph.D.' ... and a few others just because I got bored 02:46:02 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 02:50:01 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:51:18 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE493.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 02:52:58 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:53:16 Guys who is the programmer who said that programs are written for others programmers to read, not for the computer? 02:53:45 grettke: DEK 02:54:08 hkBst: Thanks. 03:02:22 NorthStar [i=email@89.180.234.69] has joined #scheme 03:02:51 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:13 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.181.46.147] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:38 -!- greyface [n=greyface@246-207.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:07:58 greyface [n=greyface@246-207.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 03:09:41 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:10:05 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 03:13:28 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:58 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:17:37 grettke: next time my CPU is a computer programmer I'll be sure to adhere to that 03:20:40 your CPU doesn't read your source directly anyway 03:20:46 so you might as well write it for humans :) 03:21:25 "Programs should be written for humans to read, and only incidentally for computers to execute" 03:23:48 synx: When that time comes how much woud you push and poke him? 03:24:35 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Connection reset by beer"] 03:25:44 I think writing programs in a clear and concise manner helps computers understand it too. 03:27:09 synx: that's crazy talk. 03:27:15 what does it mean for a computer to "understand" a program? 03:27:25 At the very least, it helps programmers understand how to optimize your code best for the computer. 03:27:43 evoli [n=yuhsin@ALL-NIGHT-TOOL.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:27:48 Elly: To execute is to understand. 03:28:02 have you heard Searle's chinese-room argument? 03:28:17 No, sorry. 03:28:31 it was a thought experiment to show that that statement is not true 03:28:57 his example was that you could give him a big table mapping two languages he does not know to each other 03:29:11 then give him text in one language, and he would give you back the corresponding text 03:29:18 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 03:29:27 it is a stretch to describe him as having understood either language, since he can't read them 03:29:37 bah, that's just restricted execution. 03:30:25 If you run a program, but disallow all commands that communicate with the hard disk, then that program probably won't erase the hard disk either. 03:30:33 I think "execute" is a shallow definition of "understand" 03:30:57 Maybe it is. I won't deny that you can execute programs in a way that cannot harm the computer. 03:31:07 that is not what I am talking about 03:31:17 it is though 03:31:33 He's translating a text in a way that cannot harm his mind. 03:31:43 my point was that searle, in the thought experiment, is "executing" the language in question with no semantic understanding of it - he does not know what the words *say*, but merely what they *look like* 03:32:24 do we ever really know what the words say? The information is in their connections... 03:32:31 Elly: Searle plus the room understand how to translate though 03:32:56 hkBst: that depends upon what you think the program is 03:33:42 hkBst: if you think the program is the book, perhaps you could argue that, but if the program is the input text, which produces the desired output text when evaluated according to the reduction rules in the book, then I don't know 03:33:58 He knows how to translate Chinese to Arabic, but does not know how to translate Chinese into a recipe he could cook or into the relationship he has with apples. It's restricted execution. 03:34:30 that's not restricted execution any more than "this program is written in Lisp, not BASIC" is restricted execution 03:35:51 I guess, but he already has the rules for parsing these two foreign languages. 03:36:29 sure 03:36:33 Even random garbage can be a program in any language, just the only thing it does is "fail as a syntax error". 03:36:42 that's not true 03:36:50 you can define formally what programs in a language are 03:36:59 then anything that does not match those rules is not a proogram 03:37:51 to steal prolog notation for a second, we could invent a programming language composed exclusively of '+' and '-', say, and write rules like this: 03:38:00 program([]). -- the empty list is a program 03:38:02 Can you? I mean even then your interpreter will follow a certain behavior according to what it's fed, and hopefully that behavior would be to fail. 03:38:32 program(['+' | Xs]) :- program(Xs). -- inductive rule for the '+' token 03:38:42 program(['-' | Xs]) :- program(Xs). -- inductive rule for the '-' token 03:38:44 and we're done 03:39:20 and :- means <== ? 03:39:23 the syntax is so simplistic that there are no valid token streams which are not programs 03:39:27 :- means "if" 03:39:33 Could you write a program that interpreted that language, but did not run any program at all when it got non-program letters? 03:39:40 certainly 03:39:59 check that program(S) before you try to evaluate S 03:40:58 whether there is an interpreter or a syntax error or not is immaterial - we can formally specify what is and is not a program in a given language 03:41:05 Well, you could call that parsing attempt a program... it is a bit of a stretch though. 03:41:16 I'm not very formal, sorry. 03:41:17 oh, no, the grammar itself is certainly a program 03:41:21 it's just a program in a different language 03:41:22 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:41:28 I guess it is possible to write a language that some things aren't programs for it. 03:41:34 ah, I am used to thinking formally :P 03:42:57 Anyway, my point is that the ignorant translator is being restricted to prevent any connections with his own thoughts, and the languages he's translating. 03:43:43 It's a really neat thought experiment, but I wouldn't say that it means this guy isn't understanding the rules of translation. 03:43:43 that isn't true - he is still holding the image of the symbol in his head, and perhaps the sound if he knows how to say it 03:43:57 but he has no grasp of the semantics of the language, only the syntax 03:45:21 These days I'm becoming less convinced that semantics even exist. 03:45:35 heh 03:45:41 well, that is an altogether different question 03:46:14 I've been trying to make an image tagger program. 03:46:41 Works good, for an image tagger program. But it opened up a lot of holes in the whole semantic system I haven't a clue how to fill. 03:46:49 like what? 03:47:18 well, drawings have artists right? 03:47:24 And artists like to use funny names. 03:48:02 So supposing there's an artist named "strange carob". He doesn't draw carob nuts. 03:48:11 How do you tag that? 03:48:19 "artist:strange carob"? 03:49:11 That's what I thought. But... 03:49:15 So then someone draws a picture of him as an anthropomorphic carob nut. 03:49:31 all your tags need namespaces 03:49:39 How would I connect that image with the artist known as "artist:strange carob", using tags? 03:49:49 "of:strange carob" is distinct from "artist:strange carob" 03:50:06 if you want it noted that strange carob is an artist, then you end up with of:artist:strange carob 03:50:11 jinho [n=jinho@user-387gl9p.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 03:50:16 which begets an unfortunate adventure into RDF 03:50:26 So there should be three tags? 03:50:45 : is right-associative 03:50:50 so of:(artist:strange carob) 03:51:14 I'm doing Exercise 1.16 from SICP, and I came up with this: http://pastebin.com/m6b2c271, but I'm not quite sure that I successfully created an iterative solution- could someone please critique my code? thanks! 03:51:23 So if I want to pull up everything having to do with this artist, but nothing to do with carobs... 03:51:44 then you'd grep for '*artist:strange carob*' 03:51:47 why would he be artist: in someone else's picture? Maybe he's "of:someguy:strange carob" 03:51:56 no 03:52:03 artist:strange carob is itself an atom 03:52:09 saying that strange carob is an artist 03:52:12 regexp string matching is hardly the best way to represent a data structure 03:52:21 so your picture might be 03:52:27 I'm not sure it is. 03:52:38 of:(artist:strange carob) by:(artist:another person) 03:52:52 then you could search for the atom 'artist:strange carob' appearing anywhere 03:53:06 of course, it gets problematic when you care about multiple dimensions of category at the same time 03:53:06 why not just "of:strange carob" and "by:another person"? 03:53:17 artist: and by: seem to have the same function here. 03:53:32 because then you have no way to distinguish pictures of *a* strange carob and pictures of the person strange carob 03:53:56 so it should be "person:strange carob" 03:54:07 Which itself smacks of tags. 03:54:26 Maybe this "strange carob" guy should have the tag "person" to indicate he's a person not a weird nut. 03:54:34 maybe! 03:54:51 it is still problematic though, because you might care that strange carob is an artist - what if you want all pictures of artists? 03:54:57 But that would mean tags could tag tags. 03:55:13 Then just tag him with "artist" and do a search on "artist" 03:55:22 I do not know 03:55:33 representing human knowledge generally is a Hard Problem, I suspect 03:55:53 Me neither... but it's something I have struggled with. 03:56:05 Really it's the SQL that gets me the most. 03:56:36 relational databases are one way of dealing with it 03:56:41 there's also navigational databases 03:56:50 which might be closer to how humans work 03:57:14 You can have a table of persons, and a table of images, but you cannot (easily) arrange for an id cell unique to both tables, i.e. for a tag relationship "X -> anything" 03:57:43 Best I could figure is to hard code some arbitrary index for each table, and have the tag relationships go tag -> table, index-in-table 03:57:55 I've never heard of a navigational database. 03:58:20 look it up on C2 03:58:26 they have a better explanation than I can give 03:58:53 sure 04:00:53 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180064163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:02:08 elmex [n=elmex@e180068254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:03:11 sorry for repeating guys, but I'm doing Exercise 1.16 from SICP, and I came up with this: http://pastebin.com/m6b2c271, but I'm not quite sure that I successfully created an iterative solution- could someone please critique my code? really appreciate it! 04:03:26 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:03:48 jinho, what makes you think your solution is iterative 04:04:04 jinho: does SICP use nested defines? Seems odd... 04:04:27 oh wait I guess it is 04:04:52 synx: it showed it somewhere I think...I just find it easier to do it that way 04:05:34 would this work in O(1) space? or is this still running in O(n) space? 04:05:51 jinho: (fast-expt a b) computer a^b, but (expt-iter a b) computes b^(a+1) ? 04:06:23 looks iterative to me 04:06:42 jinho: write some tests -- if they pass, your code is about as good as it gets 04:07:13 offby1: tests don't judge code quality 04:07:26 sure they do 04:07:35 if the tests fail, the quality is low :) 04:07:36 It does look iterative to me too. You can tell because nothing's being done with the return value except to pass it on up. 04:07:40 yup 04:07:41 right...the tests work, but they dont show me if I'm using O(1) or O(n) 04:07:46 the recursive calls are in tail position. 04:07:55 jinho: it's neither; it's O(log(n)) 04:08:04 ah 04:08:35 offby1: time or space? 04:08:37 I think you can prove the O(log(n)) of that particular function by induction... 04:08:54 is tail position simply (if E0 E1 E2), where E2 -> is a recursive call that passes the return value? 04:09:11 hkBst: time; space ought to be constant more or less 04:09:22 jinho: something like that, yes. 04:09:45 ah, ok, cool- thanks a lot guys 04:09:55 the definition is complex and wordy, if I recall correctly, but roughly it means "if you don't do anything with the expression other than just return it, then it's in tail position" 04:10:07 yeah, what offby1 said 04:10:09 i see 04:10:32 (+ (foo) bar) -- neither foo nor bar are in tail position 04:10:45 If you pass the return value of the recursive call to a continuation, can that be in the tail position? 04:10:53 + is in tail position though. 04:10:56 dunno what "pass to a continuation" means 04:11:42 um... *fiddles* 04:12:30 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 04:13:06 synx: it's about whether the continuations are the same or not 04:13:09 offby1: I thought there were more entertaining things to do in Deadwood 04:13:33 synx: so + is not in tail position in that expression 04:14:04 synx: as it still has to be applied 04:14:20 Adamant: girls are all shopping in the city 04:14:43 are the built-in functions like "square" written in scheme? 04:14:52 tail-call summing of a list would be: (define (sum a l) (if (null? l) a (sum (+ (car l) a) (cdr l)))) 04:15:24 offby1: I meant gamble and punch out Swerengin 04:15:57 offby1: https://synx.us.to/feepcode/is-this-tail.ss 04:16:01 ...is what I mean. 04:16:15 jinho: Does a tail call make sense to you now? 04:16:36 mmm, tail-call 04:17:21 grettke: as of right now- I believe it does- I'm sure that in a few problems I'll find something that confuses me a bit more, but till then I think I'm good for now 04:17:50 elly: If you just made the joke I think you did... hehehe 04:18:06 I didn't even realize I did! 04:18:14 I was *actually* talking about tail-call optimization :P 04:18:43 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:18:46 the world hungers for booty-call optimization 04:18:52 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 04:19:54 jinho: An easy way to see whether or not it is a tail call is to take into account the fact that Scheme evaluates its arguments. If the last expression in a function body takes the result of applying a function, it isn't a tail call. 04:20:20 Elly: I see. You are innocent aren't you. 04:20:21 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:20:45 synx: firefox wants me to tell you: invalid security certificate. 04:21:22 synx: damn, I have no idea if that's a tail call :) 04:21:26 grettke: not THAT innocent, given that I spotted it after the fact :) 04:21:29 3 04:21:31 oops! 04:21:37 grettke: you mean if there's some calculations being done outside the call to the function? 04:21:56 Elly: that's _tail_, not _booty_ 04:22:04 although in most dialects those are close synonyms 04:22:31 grettke: (+ 2 (f (- n 1))) vs (f (- n 1) (+ a 2)) 04:22:41 grettke: kind of like that? 04:22:57 offby1: oops, well sorry :) 04:23:16 grettke: first being not a tail call, second being one? 04:23:24 neithr of those is tail-call 04:23:29 offby1: I can't afford a certificate signed by the cartel Mozilla hangs out with, so it gives those warnings. 04:23:30 damn 04:23:34 because the + is not yet evaluated in the first one 04:23:50 to make something tail-call, you usually add an accumulator 04:23:56 which is passed into the callee 04:23:57 jinho: tail call: (f 10) 04:24:09 jinho: non tail call: (+ 12 (f 10)) 04:24:15 tail-call fib is interesting :P 04:24:26 synx: signing certificates is expensive! 04:24:45 offby1: I'll sign yours for free! 04:24:55 I'll sign yours -- criss/cross! 04:25:02 ^^ "Strangers On A Train" ^^ 04:25:12 heheh 04:25:24 grettke: so in the tail-call the "parent function" finishes all its work, and passes it on to its "child function"? 04:25:27 It's more trustworthy than the ones Mozilla picks out. :p 04:25:41 grettke: for lack of better words 04:25:45 jinho: yes, there is no work left to do 04:26:10 http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_call 04:26:12 grettke: so then the interpretor can just reuse the memory of the parent function for the child function? 04:26:44 jinho: the only memory kept for the stack frame of the parent function is its return address 04:27:09 jinho: Read "LAMBDA: The Ultimate GOTO" 04:27:30 grettke: is this a book or a chapter in SICP? 04:27:41 Elly: I see. You are slightly innocent. 04:27:51 jinho: It is a paper on Scheme. 04:28:22 jinho: The normal place where you can find it is down for a week or two: http://library.readscheme.org/page1.html 04:28:29 jinho: I can DCC it to you if you like 04:28:40 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:28:49 Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:29:01 sure that'd be cool 04:29:33 jinho: I'll send two papers that are relevant here. They make both a technical and a philosophical case for tail recursion (should be called tail-transfer). 04:29:50 grettke: kk thanks 04:32:40 -!- Fare [n=Fare@bas2-montreal45-1242554703.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:34:47 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:38:32 jinho: your code is bugged, try (fast-expt 2 5) ==> 64, but 2^5=32 04:39:25 hkBst: crap- thanks for showing me that! 04:44:15 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:44:17 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:38 -!- jinho [n=jinho@user-387gl9p.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 04:47:49 lisppaste: url 04:47:49 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 04:48:13 hkBst pasted "fast-expt" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72864 04:49:00 -!- evoli [n=yuhsin@ALL-NIGHT-TOOL.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:50:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 04:59:12 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 04:59:15 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:00:10 synx: i sense you're going through a dorian gray transition into a cynic 05:04:01 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2105.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:04:25 Um, except I'm not a homoerotic hedonist with a magical painting. 05:07:57 wait, do I get to join the League? 05:15:40 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:20:33 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:22:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:23:58 -!- NorthStar [i=email@89.180.234.69] has left #scheme 05:27:39 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176206151.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:47 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:33:48 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@pool-70-111-163-83.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:34:23 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:36:46 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 05:37:18 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:58:11 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:12:03 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:24:48 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 06:31:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:33:16 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:36:21 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 06:48:11 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:01:16 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@pool-70-111-163-83.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:05:31 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:51:47 quiet 08:00:40 No, I'll be as loud as I want! 08:09:04 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:09:16 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:09:28 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:12:03 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 08:15:06 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:35:00 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 08:35:13 incubot: every once and awhile i would like to project a rapturous joy towards scheme and schemedom, but lack the expression 08:35:15 (I'm leaning towards "yes", mostly because it looks like fun) 08:35:21 i agree 08:58:40 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:59:03 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:07:31 incubot: in fact, scheme is its own analytics of the sublime (das Erhabene); and could have taught kant a thing or two 09:07:31 Error: unbound variable: in 09:07:49 incubot: in fact, scheme is its own analytics of the sublime [das Erhabene]; and could have taught kant a thing or two 09:07:51 Kant. 09:07:55 heh 09:09:36 barney [n=bernhard@p549A0A7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:18:48 09:18:48 _ _ _ _ 09:18:49 | | | | __ _ _ __ _ __ _ _ | \ | | ___ __ __ 09:18:49 | |_| | / _` || '_ \ | '_ \ | | | | | \| | / _ \\ \ /\ / / 09:18:51 | _ || (_| || |_) || |_) || |_| | | |\ || __/ \ V V / 09:18:55 |_| |_| \__,_|| .__/ | .__/ \__, | |_| \_| \___| \_/\_/ 09:18:59 |_| |_| |___/ 09:19:02 __ __ 09:19:05 \ \ / /___ __ _ _ __ 09:19:09 \ V // _ \ / _` || '__| 09:19:09 | || __/| (_| || | 09:19:12 |_| \___| \__,_||_| 09:19:15 09:19:18 09:19:34 *johnnowak* kicks btw0 in the face 09:20:40 oh, already? 09:24:34 I hope 2009 is worse than 2008 09:25:07 aye 09:25:12 i didn't live all these years just to be happy 09:28:59 -!- btw0 [n=wu@mail.madk.org] has left #scheme 09:40:10 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:40:43 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:57:19 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:57:44 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 10:14:00 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-227.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 10:27:12 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 10:33:04 dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:52:51 -!- greyface [n=greyface@246-207.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:54:59 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 10:56:07 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 10:58:26 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:19 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-227.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:11:01 vasa [n=vasa@mm-56-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 11:23:37 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0568A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:34:45 -!- Vital303 [n=vital303@e181017149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:35:42 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE493.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:47:33 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.234.69] has joined #scheme 11:53:22 lol 11:53:26 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 12:03:24 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-167-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 12:12:46 dzhus [n=user@93-80-219-108.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 12:13:29 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-146-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 12:15:24 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [] 12:19:13 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 12:22:22 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-132-109.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:22:25 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 12:24:21 Leonidas pasted "Postfixed Scheme" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72872 12:24:48 can someone help me how to get the macro to be applied recursively on subforms? 12:26:04 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 12:26:24 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-56-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 12:30:11 Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has joined #scheme 12:33:56 or do I need syntax-case for that already? 12:35:08 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 13:00:17 Vital303 [n=vital303@e181006254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 13:02:38 benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:15:17 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 13:31:30 vasa [n=vasa@mm-142-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 13:31:37 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 13:32:38 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:00 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:35:38 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:36:00 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 13:46:56 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:55:31 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 13:58:03 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 13:58:16 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-177.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 14:00:20 benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 14:01:59 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 14:04:26 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:05:46 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:10:35 -!- pbusser2 [n=peter@82.174.238.138] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17:14 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-156-71-107.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:44 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:16 greyface [n=greyface@134-92.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 14:20:21 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176222220.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:24:42 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 14:25:22 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-f600d5e645dcffcd] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:30:15 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 14:31:39 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 14:34:16 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:35:46 krat3r [n=krat@a83-132-32-164.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 14:38:22 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:49:23 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:50:47 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 14:52:34 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:00:28 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 15:02:17 can someone help me on how to get macros to work recursively? 15:03:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/72872 15:03:44 it is just for learning how macros work. 15:08:38 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 15:19:39 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-142-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:20:16 Leonidas: http://www.xs4all.nl/~hipster/lib/scheme/gauche/define-syntax-primer.txt 15:22:38 r2q2 annotated #72872 with "see r2q2-postfix" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72872#1 15:22:50 evoli [n=yuhsin@SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:23:14 Hi evoli 15:23:22 heya :) 15:23:25 happy new year 15:23:26 evoli: Are you cleaning your computer?? 15:23:32 I've got a bit more than half an hour to go 15:23:33 Leonidas: Does that work? 15:23:33 me? 15:23:41 evoli: Yea your hostname is scrubbing bubbles 15:23:52 ah. not my fault 15:23:55 evoli: Nevermind bad joke. 15:23:57 I like cleaning my computer though. 15:24:02 evoli: Happy new year pretty lady :-) 15:24:26 if you like funny host names I can log in from a ton. then again, I guess anyone can just set it to whatever they want... 15:24:46 oh okay. 15:25:01 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 15:25:10 evoli: What are your new year plans? 15:25:46 gosh, the usual thing 15:25:55 I'm in Taiwan. eat tons of food with relatives before and after. 15:26:11 family also moved to a new home 15:26:50 fireworks 15:26:53 stuff 15:27:02 what are your plans? 15:27:50 Uhh 15:27:54 Nothing really 15:27:56 Spending time at home 15:28:52 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:49 Leonidas: sorry I am confused but that guide will help you 15:31:42 Leonidas: I thought you were doing list recursion and you just had to replace your single form with a recursive one. 15:34:15 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 15:34:21 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 15:35:45 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:35:48 bweaver_ [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:39:22 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE493.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:45:44 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:45:55 r2q2: sorry, didn't see your answer. 15:46:28 -!- mxcarron [n=maxime@fedora/Pingoomax] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:36 r2q2: no, I am just trying to play with macros by moving the function call at the end of the form 15:46:46 (2 3 +) -> 5 15:46:49 mxcarron [n=maxime@fedora/Pingoomax] has joined #scheme 15:46:57 and useless stuff like this. 15:47:55 xvc [n=chatzill@82-69-45-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:51:59 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:56:20 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [] 15:58:30 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 16:01:19 pbusser2 [n=peter@82.174.238.138] has joined #scheme 16:03:11 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 16:04:42 choas [n=lars@p5B0DDD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:08:53 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 16:09:23 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:10:25 -!- xvc [n=chatzill@82-69-45-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.14/0000000000]"] 16:12:09 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:42 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #scheme 16:12:56 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:16:26 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:17:08 Leonidas: how about ((_ (?operands ... ?operator)) ((_ ?operator) (_ ?operands) ...)) plus a definition for atoms. 16:18:27 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 16:21:46 yeah, something like this. I seem to be unable to use my brain today. 16:24:49 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:53 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:21 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 16:27:18 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #scheme 16:32:02 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:33:15 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-177.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:01 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-177.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:39:51 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 16:41:17 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:42:43 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:43:44 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-140.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 16:44:06 reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:45:04 -!- evoli [n=yuhsin@SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:47:32 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 16:48:46 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 16:55:39 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 16:57:03 -!- mxcarron [n=maxime@fedora/Pingoomax] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:45 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 16:59:10 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:59:42 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DDD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:00:40 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 17:01:40 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:06:15 -!- reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06:34 reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:07:07 -!- reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:35 reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:08:21 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:45 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 17:11:53 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-140.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:16:49 benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 17:17:24 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 17:20:08 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 17:31:29 vasa [n=vasa@mm-54-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 17:31:55 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:04 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:33:14 -!- Vital303 [n=vital303@e181006254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:33:28 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 17:34:54 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:43:45 -!- dzhus is now known as dzhus[afk] 17:47:41 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:37 -!- dzhus[afk] is now known as dzhus 17:53:08 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0A7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:54:35 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:56:04 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 18:00:27 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 18:01:42 -!- dzhus [n=user@93-80-219-108.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["NY"] 18:06:42 qen` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 18:08:11 -!- krat3r [n=krat@a83-132-32-164.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:08:27 -!- rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:11:46 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:13:27 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 18:19:35 how is rudybot doing today? 18:19:41 rudybot, eval (define  lambda) 18:19:42 proq: error: eval:1:10: lambda: bad syntax in: lambda 18:19:48 oh, he works 18:22:47 dum de dum 18:23:30 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 18:23:40 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:28:06 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:30:50 Madars- [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has joined #scheme 18:41:47 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 18:42:11 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:45:55 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 18:46:03 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 18:46:27 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 18:48:14 andr3n [n=aa@217.129.2.137] has joined #scheme 18:49:09 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:29 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:57:03 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 19:05:02 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:10:05 tole ya 19:12:05 (add1 offby1) 19:12:30 you should script your client to change your nick in cases like that 19:16:58 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:19:17 Vital303 [n=vital303@e181032086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:19:32 -!- Vital303 [n=vital303@e181032086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #scheme 19:25:35 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:26:40 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #scheme 19:31:17 cases like what? 19:32:08 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:57 ,(add1 offby1) 19:33:08 (sub1 offby1) etc. 19:35:32 actually I have changed my client to do just that, just a couple of days ago: (setq erc-nick `("offby1" "offby2" "offby3" "offby4" "offby5")) 19:35:36 it cycles through those valus 19:35:39 values 19:35:44 as you can see I'm too lazy to automate it 19:44:09 dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:45:09 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 20:00:04 hellus [n=chatzill@85.96.228.33] has joined #scheme 20:00:21 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:01:15 he i read sicp and i study for stream but i am newbie sicp is little complicatedçCan you suggest a tutorial that tells stream more simple ? 20:02:07 SICP 20:02:46 except sicp :X 20:03:09 uhm, sicp 20:03:38 hellus, what can you mean .. not SICP? 20:03:57 hellus, I would say that you could read other things but I don't really htink they are any better 20:03:58 i mean this sicp is little complicated 20:04:08 hellus: maybe you can watch the video lecture they have on streams. 20:04:11 i need a basic tutorial to understand stream 20:04:18 would you like a different SICP? 20:04:56 I like their explanation there of showing a stream as a, no pun intended, series of tubes. 20:04:58 dudrenov: where is video ? 20:05:07 i want more simple sicp 20:05:10 see topic 20:05:14 is there ? 20:05:24 I though SICP was pretty simplle 20:05:28 simple, rather 20:05:33 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:41 I'm not sure how it could be simplified without losing nuance 20:05:43 it would not be SICP then. 20:05:58 what is nuance ? 20:06:08 What chapter were streams 3.5? 20:06:15 actually i want something that tells step by step 20:06:18 3.5 20:06:19 nuance is the subtleties of the ideas 20:06:41 hellus: http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 20:07:08 I guess lecture 6[a,b] is what you want. 20:07:56 But the book explains it pretty clearly. Helps if you trace down on paper a couple of simple streams. To see how it works 20:08:26 dudrenov: address not found unfortunately 20:09:38 then pen and paper are your best choices :) 20:10:03 yes i understood stream issue but just i am student and i have final exam than i study for and i understand the stream 100 percentage.That is my problem.So i am finding the simplest tutorial for stream.I dont know there is one.Just i am finding :d 20:10:51 So your problem is that you understand them 100%? 20:11:07 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 20:11:08 That's a good problem to have imo. 20:11:23 yes 20:11:36 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:11:37 my only problem understand this %100. 20:11:54 i am able to understand whole code in sicp 20:12:16 and i did almost all exercise in sicp 20:12:27 is there something on MIT OCW perhaps? 20:12:46 hmm i dont know what is mit ocw ? 20:12:50 you could look at the SML streams implementation for CMU 15212 - it's really well-documented, but it's in SML :P 20:13:01 open courseware - MIT posts course material online for free 20:13:18 dudrenov: page opens 20:13:37 you are in a dark room 20:13:41 i see the condition-case part of the documentation; and I have working code with that, and it catches exceptions taht chicken throws 20:13:46 however, how do I raise my own exceptions? (searching for "raise" in the manual, i don't find much) 20:15:42 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:15:53 Try the word `signal', hml, rather than `raise'. 20:16:22 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 20:20:18 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 20:20:48 Elly i open mit ocw page and i join course but i cannot find cmu 15212 20:21:03 which department has cmu 15212 20:23:53 no, CMU is a different school 20:23:56 -!- bweaver_ [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:23:57 disregard the comment about 212 20:25:50 sorry oke 20:26:09 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 20:29:01 Elly: you talk about this http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~me/212/textbooks.html 20:29:08 yep! 20:29:12 Erdmann is a great teacher 20:30:40 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-156-125-187.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:12 thanks 20:32:26 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:47:23 i ahve a really shitty scheme interpreter. it tells me that blah.scm has an unterminated list that ends at EOF, but not where it begins. is there a way to have emacs get me linue number / highlight in red my unterminated lists? 20:48:07 M-x check-parens RET 20:48:36 awesome; thanks 20:54:18 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 20:57:31 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:02:00 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 21:02:41 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-156-125-187.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:07 -!- dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:40 dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:42 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:16:55 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:17:26 Happy New Year! 21:20:01 -!- greyface [n=greyface@134-92.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 21:28:58 -!- reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31:17 reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:32:51 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:36:17 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@pool-70-111-163-83.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:51 -!- reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40:47 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 21:43:18 Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:44:49 reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:46:12 well, boys and femmes, it's the last of the aughts, dammit 21:46:22 i'm going to have to refer to the decade as the "teens" next year 21:46:31 doesn't have nearly the aplomb of the "aughts" 21:50:59 rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 21:59:45 -!- hellus [n=chatzill@85.96.228.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:27 how is '08 any less aughty than '09? 22:03:22 He's off by a year. 22:03:29 2009 -> 2010 22:09:37 by "next year", i mean '10; sorry, a day ahead 22:10:26 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:10:48 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 22:15:07 See? Off by one. 22:16:14 Riastradh: how goes? 22:20:55 thot so 22:22:50 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:26:15 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-54-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:30:27 sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 22:31:38 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 22:31:44 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:33:18 -!- andr3n [n=aa@217.129.2.137] has quit [] 22:33:56 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 22:38:50 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-156-69-229.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 22:39:05 offby1: syn 22:39:36 #scheme: syn 22:40:25 -!- Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:45:37 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:45:52 -!- dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:01 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:06 ? 22:52:10 ACK 22:52:11 I guess 22:52:42 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 22:54:48 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:55:24 offby1: thanks; i'm doing research into the viability of SYN/ACK replacing ping/pong 22:58:32 No, no, offby1. 22:58:39 Allow me to demonstrate. 22:58:43 klutometis, begin again. 22:59:35 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:59:43 ...or, since klutometis appears to have fallen off the network, I shall demonstrate without him: 22:59:50 Riastradh: syn 22:59:59 klutometis: syn ack! 23:00:13 that didn't happen 23:00:19 this is fabricatino 23:00:22 Riastradh: ack. I have a question concerning the philosophical nature of continuations in meerkat habitats. 23:00:57 hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 23:01:14 -!- hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:51 klutometis: You speak nonsense. Fin. 23:02:47 RST 23:03:07 duly noted. 23:03:32 My BitTorrent connection just died! All that half-downloaded kitten porn, down the Andrew Cuomo toilet! 23:04:03 .oO("Andrew Cuomo"?) 23:04:34 Andrew Cuomo, the crusader against kitten pornography and other moral depravities on the internet, such as Usenet, or perhaps the internet in general. 23:05:05 Riastradh: thanks for this demonstration of SYN/ACK-etiquette; we hereby beknight thee the Amy Vanderbilt of TCP. Emily Post remains to be nominated. 23:05:12 I mean the crusader from the New York attorney general's office; of course there are other equally nitwitted crusaders, such as Andrew Burnham. 23:05:20 He could adapt Ted Stevens famouse quote to "The Internet is a series of kitten porn tubes" 23:05:26 famous* 23:05:28 klutometis: Emily Post confines herself to netnews 23:05:33 heh 23:06:30 eli` [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:06:45 offby1: ping 23:06:49 hjey hey 23:06:51 No, no, no, eli`! 23:06:53 long time no etc. 23:06:56 You missed the demonstration. 23:06:59 Let me show you. 23:07:00 offby1: syn 23:07:04 Riastradh: syn ack 23:07:13 Yeah, my office machine is still connected now. 23:07:14 offby1: ack! Eli has a question for you, or a comment for you, or something. 23:07:25 *offby1* freezes with stage fright 23:07:44 offby1: Did that segfault get solved? 23:07:54 yep -- in fact it had already been fixed before I reported it. 23:08:14 it's like Flatt can _read minds_ 23:08:16 *offby1* shivers 23:08:21 OK, just making sure that I matchedMatthew's reply and your comment. 23:08:24 yep 23:08:33 he was all over that like white on rice, I'll tell ya. 23:08:44 Couldn't have been more than a few minutes between my post and his response 23:08:48 I'm not too well connected for about another week. 23:08:56 JFYI. 23:09:00 sure sure 23:09:11 *eli`* is in a hot place. 23:09:26 no bragging. 23:09:33 (For several meanings of "hot".) 23:10:38 If he's where I'm guessing he is, I don't think that remotely qualifies as bragging, judging by recent events, this past week. 23:11:02 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:12:07 we'll let him tell. Or not. 23:13:18 Yes, Riastradh's guess is right -- and I'm staying in the "zone" that is nearest to the "festivities". 23:14:56 no effing clue. 23:15:02 Some New England thing, I guess 23:15:10 ...uh, pretty far from it. 23:15:16 It's cold here in New England. 23:16:26 offby1: I'm about 5-8km from the Gaza strip. 23:16:27 No one is dropping bombs anywhere around here (and I don't think that the snowflakes qualify). 23:16:33 eli`: that just dawned on me. 23:16:55 That's close enough to hear booms on both sides. 23:26:14 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-136-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:31:00 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:00 -!- reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:29 reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:34:49 -!- reprore [n=reprore@p3006-ipbf210hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:35:15 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-146-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36:32 -!- sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 23:37:16 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:37:51 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:18 danking [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:18 sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 23:46:42 -!- danking [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:17 Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:48:38 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:49:07 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 23:49:29 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-156-69-229.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:24 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-150-28-86.aby.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:50:36 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:52:25 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:52:30 tizoc [n=user@r190-133-132-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:52:52 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:54:09 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:03 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 23:59:33 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme