00:01:27 by inserting printfs, of course 00:01:31 like any other language 00:03:22 bombshel5er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:03:24 -!- bombshel5er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:04 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-67-186-250-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:04:15 specbot: clisp format 00:04:20 Drat. 00:04:23 fnord123 [n=fnord123@host217-42-143-207.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:04:39 What's the CLisp reference bot? 00:07:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:09:42 specbot: format 00:09:51 I'd have thought it was indeed specbot 00:09:56 maybe specbot be daid. 00:10:02 Maybe I should teach rudybot some new tricks 00:12:31 specbot: r5rs list 00:12:31 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_416 00:12:32 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5ppw5q 00:12:39 specbot: cl format 00:12:52 *offby1* drums fingers 00:12:57 I too thought specbot spoke Common Lisp 00:13:01 specbot: lisp format 00:13:04 ... 00:13:08 specbot: help 00:13:08 To use the specbot bot, say something like "database term", where database is one of ("clhs", "r5rs", "cocoa", "elisp", "clim", "ieee754", "ppc", "posix", "man", "cltl2", "cltl2-section") and term is the desired lookup. The available databases are: 00:13:09 "clhs", The Common Lisp HyperSpec; "r5rs", The Revised 5th Ed. Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme; "cocoa", Classes in the Cocoa Foundation and Application kits; "elisp", GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual 00:13:09 "clim", Common Lisp Interface Manager II Specification; "ieee754", Section numbers of IEEE 754; "ppc", PowerPC assembly mnemonics; "posix", Single UNIX Specification 00:13:12 aha 00:13:15 specbot: clhs format 00:13:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 00:13:21 Aaah. 00:13:24 rtfm. 00:13:34 or rtfh, in this case. 00:13:43 specbot: man specbot 00:13:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for specbot. 00:14:18 specbot: posix strlcat 00:14:18 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for strlcat. 00:14:26 Huh, neat-o. 00:17:51 -!- fnord1231 [n=fnord123@host86-151-2-154.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:41 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless17.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 00:19:20 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 00:21:11 fnord1231 [n=fnord123@host217-42-143-207.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:21:20 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@host217-42-143-207.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:21:26 specbot: posix lolcat 00:21:27 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for lolcat. 00:39:13 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:45:11 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:55:49 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 00:57:50 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:03 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:09:53 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:10:06 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:10:28 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:10:44 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:10:52 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:16:30 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:17:03 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:17:41 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 01:17:57 -!- perv [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:56 incubot: rudybot 01:20:59 say something funny 01:21:08 hmm. 01:21:24 usually incubot responds with a sentence that includes at least one of the words _you_ said. 01:21:35 incubot: butter-cream 01:21:37 what is plum butter? 01:21:47 incubot: shea butter 01:21:49 on earth is plum butter? 01:21:50 incubot: who wrote rudybot? 01:21:52 eval (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) 01:21:57 incubot: who made you? 01:21:59 ``Financially, the Cube was so successful that Rubik became the first self-made millionaire in a communist country.'' 01:22:07 "made" 01:22:10 *offby1* rollws eyes 01:28:21 -!- hoho [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:28:47 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 01:34:10 I doubt there's ever been a completely self made millionaire. The dollar isn't that worthless yet. 01:38:24 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:45:13 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:46:26 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:53:44 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-73-185.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:57:47 karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-239-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 01:59:18 hi 01:59:30 i'm currently playing around with plt scheme's events 01:59:47 does anyone know how to specify the order in which events are processed? 02:00:11 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF8AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:25 the default behaviour is to process events in pseudo random order as specified by a random number generator, but i want one event to be processed only if all of the other events are not ready 02:04:51 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 02:07:46 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-239-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11:23 karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-239-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 02:11:26 oops 02:16:22 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFC947.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:16:44 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 02:16:55 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:21:04 hmm 02:21:08 bet there's a way 02:24:15 karsten_: eli will know 02:24:23 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless17.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:25:12 I thought that events were fifo, mod their priority (high, low, or the magic internal UI priority). But that was just my intuition-- I haven't read the impl. 02:27:10 I wonder if we're talking about two different kinds of events -- one kind is described in the "Concurrency" chapter of the Reference; the other kind is part of the GUI toolkit 02:27:15 maybe they're the same thing; I dunno 02:28:02 i'm actually talking about the thread syncing events, as defined by evt? and used with sync :) 02:28:27 ok, those are the only ones I know about anyway. 02:29:31 now, I suppose you could just wait on the one event, and then say (when (not (sync/timeout 0 other events ...)) (do-your-stuff)) 02:30:10 hm, that would work 02:30:16 oh good 02:30:46 although that's not exactly a clean solution 02:30:59 *shrug* 02:31:46 but it's better than nothing, so i'll just implement it and ask eli when i see him active 02:31:51 offby1: thanks :) 02:31:54 that's what I'd do too 02:32:01 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:28 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:54:26 offby1: yah, I was thinking of UI events. 02:54:36 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-62-wfor-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:54:42 silly boy 02:55:07 It'd be easier if everything was called "thangs." 02:59:32 but they are. 02:59:41 It's a synonym for "dingus", which may be what's confusing you. 02:59:54 Either that, or what's confusing you is just the nature of my game. 02:59:56 Hoo hoo. 03:03:52 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:25 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:31 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 03:08:39 hm 03:08:46 does scheme have a comment form nicer than ;? 03:08:55 SML has (* comment *), which looks better to me 03:09:06 #| and |# in some schemes (incl. r6rs i think) 03:09:14 that gives you block comments 03:09:15 Elly: Are you saying you want block comments, or some form of line commenting that is nicer than ;? 03:09:17 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.17.144] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:09:23 there's also an expression comment too 03:09:26 #; i think? 03:09:27 I want block comments that look like the rest of scheme does 03:09:46 Elly: IMO, that would defeat the purpose of comments. I want them to look different. 03:09:55 duncanm: On some Schemes, this works. 03:09:57 oh 03:10:03 I want them to syntax-highlight differently 03:10:12 Elly: Some of us do not use syntax highlighting. 03:10:15 I guess that is a good point though 03:10:17 arcfide: really? o_O 03:10:26 Elly: go use a nice editor that highlights it differently (like emacs) 03:10:43 *Elly* uses vim 03:10:49 ahh, i should patch nuscsh to include SRFI-62 comments 03:11:16 Elly: Not to mention, if you have syntax highlighting, then there is no problem with having the comments in any form you want, because you can pretty much make the characters that delimit a comment disappear and the text in the comment shine brightly. 03:11:16 -!- athos_ is now known as athos 03:11:29 arcfide: yeah, I could do that 03:11:51 i can't imagine coding without syntax highlighting 03:11:59 me either, really 03:12:02 authorblues2 [n=authorbl@c-68-58-203-33.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:27 -!- authorblues2 [n=authorbl@c-68-58-203-33.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has left #scheme 03:22:41 sigh 03:25:03 I foolishly resisted syntax highlighting for a long time. 03:25:07 Glad I got over it. 03:25:13 offby1: congratulations 03:25:23 offby1: i'm missing disc 1 from season 3 of The West Wing 03:25:31 hm 03:25:35 well, I don't have it :-| 03:25:37 now i'm just sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for the torrent to dwonload 03:25:48 go watch "The Wire"; it's better 03:26:11 heh 03:26:19 jimt [n=jim@202.27.212.33] has joined #scheme 03:27:06 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.245.27] has joined #scheme 03:43:23 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:43:35 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 03:44:04 -!- bombshel3er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 03:51:35 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 03:52:32 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:52:32 -!- bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:52:34 -!- bombshel4er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:53:04 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:01:19 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:02:15 elmex [n=elmex@e180068093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:09:22 -!- tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has quit ["Riece/5.0.0 Emacs/22.3 (berkeley-unix)"] 04:13:02 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:13:21 ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@221.235.60.240] has joined #scheme 04:16:48 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:24:26 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:25:21 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.245.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:38 -!- nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:36:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["*bork bork*"] 04:48:53 bpt [n=bpt@12.160.80.36] has joined #scheme 04:50:00 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 04:51:08 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 04:51:10 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:52:13 augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:54:52 -!- fnord1231 [n=fnord123@host217-42-143-207.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:55:42 -!- augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58:28 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF8AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:08:54 offby1: ping 05:09:00 karsten_: ping 05:09:03 Elly: ping 05:09:09 Kapwing! 05:09:12 hello! 05:09:18 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 05:09:20 ay 05:09:25 eli: hi :) 05:09:46 Elly: If you want comments that look like the rest of scheme, and if your implementation supports them, then you can use #; -- just do something like #;(...) 05:09:57 ahh 05:10:01 karsten_: What is it exactly that you are trying to achieve with events? 05:10:04 I was looking for something like (; ...) 05:10:31 pling! 05:10:34 Elly: Well, #;(...) is close enough... If you realy want, you can use #;(comment ...) 05:10:46 heh 05:10:47 oh well 05:10:54 eli: pong 05:11:03 ka-ching 05:11:46 karsten_: It looks to me like you don't really want priorities, just run the code that you want to run, with a sync with a 0 timeout every once in a while. Similar if not the same to what was suggested, IIUC. 05:11:52 offby1: What about Windows? 05:12:01 Unfortunately, Emacs's support for #; is feeble, and works much better if the line is broken between the semicolon and the following S-expression. 05:12:10 eli: i wrote a wrapper around subprocess. i use events to check for output from the process and whether the process has died. the problem is that the event that checks whether the process has died always gets fire before all output gets read. 05:12:22 +d 05:12:33 Emacs is feeble. 05:12:58 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-29-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:13:00 Riastradh: depends on the version, on newer ones even a newline doesn't help, and the whole commented sexpr is treated as a comment -- as if it was done especially for me, to convince me why it's a really bad idea to do that. 05:13:09 Do better, foof. 05:13:55 karsten_: what do you mean by "the event that checks whether the process has died"? 05:14:15 Riastradh: I need a good Scheme implementation first :/ 05:14:19 eli, oh, the issue I had in mind is not that Emacs treats the commented S-expression as a comment; the issue is that, when I last checked, Emacs's S-expression parser didn't recognize `#;', and instead read the semicolon as the beginning of a line comment. (Font Lock, however, knew about S-expression comments.) 05:15:01 eli: er? What _about_ what about Windows? 05:15:03 eli: the process that is returned as the first value from subprocess can be used as an event that is being triggerd as soon as subprocess-wait wouldn't block. that's pretty much when the process has died. 05:15:06 oh. 05:15:11 eli: f*** 'em :-| 05:15:23 or make one of those shell shortcuts; that'd be equally useful, actually 05:17:14 Riastradh: Well, it does treat it as a comment now -- which really messes up sexpr-navigation inside such a commented expression, which makes things pretty horribly broken if you depend on such navigation as much as I do. I'm just too lazy to disable the damn thing, so I use #;#;!!!...commented-expr... which is the shortest way I found that fools it. 05:17:42 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF8AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:17:51 karsten_: So if you do a sync on some things including such a subprocess value, and that fires then everything works as it should no? 05:17:58 Eck. 05:18:19 Have you submitted any bug report, eli? 05:18:19 offby1: I'm pretty sure that a desktop shortcut wouldn't help you with bookmarks inside the docs. 05:18:27 eli: what kind of navigation can emacs do inside S-expressions? 05:18:39 eli: bummer 05:18:43 eli: but you see the problem? 05:19:04 Elly, well, by using a sextant and peering up at the north star, and with a sufficiently accurate chronometre... 05:19:08 Riastradh: No, I'm way too lazy for that. Especially since it looks like an intended behavior -- similar to the mess you get if you ;;-prefix a bunch of lines that a re a single sexpr and try to navigate inside that. 05:19:38 eli: no, when i sync on that process handle _and_ the output port returned by subprocess, the process handle will be triggered before all output is read. 05:20:04 offby1: yes, I definitely see the problem. I really know about it, since `plt-help' is the best we could come up with as a way to do it. 05:20:14 eli, well, line comments don't require their contents to be lexically valid S-expressions. Expression comments are different. 05:21:09 So if it is the intent to edit expression comments as free-form text, the intent is a bug. 05:21:15 offby1: [btw, such a symlink should point to the `doc' not to the toplevel version directory since that will create all kinds of messy code. And even with that, there are some cases where the docs are inside the collections.] 05:21:57 Riastradh: Yes, that's a valid point, of course -- but I'm sure that whoever replies to the report will tend to specify how exactly it is doing the right thing... 05:22:32 eli, Riastradh: what do you use #; for? 05:23:15 Er...to comment expressions? 05:23:44 I mean, what sort of expressions? Why do you leave them commented out inside the file, and why not use line comments? 05:23:46 Riastradh: IOW, in this case the code is, I suspect, correct, but the design is broken -- and these bugs need a little more enthusiasm than what I can offer. Besides, the whole #; thing sort of convinced me that I really don't want the commented sexpr to be treated as a comment at all. The most I'd want is to have some visual indication that composes with the usual syntax colors. 05:24:06 foof: They're *very* convenient for debugging. 05:25:29 what actually bothers me more is that the output port event will be triggered over and over again once the process has died. but then again, that's the documented behaviour, as read doesn't block and returns eof. 05:25:38 karsten_: that's expected -- most processes would be done when their output is completely in the buffer, I think that that's what you see. So in any case, after the process is done you still need to deal with its output until it's closed. 05:27:40 karsten_: What I usually do is deal with a subprocess as a single unit: first process its output until it's closed, then check that the subprocess is dead (which is usually immediate since its stdout was closed). 05:29:04 foof: BTW, they're even more useful since they compose nicely with ; comments. For example: (begin;#;expr1;#;expr2;#;expr3) -- now you have a single 1-character way of toggling expressions in and out. 05:30:24 tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has joined #scheme 05:31:56 That's... confusing :) I'd rather use the two characters to insert/delete #; 05:32:46 foof: that wont work so well in an 'if' for example 05:32:56 ? 05:33:13 #; ignores the expression that follows 05:33:28 foof: Well, I just like the idea of a one-char switch... Even more -- I usually have something like ";#; ; the following expression wil blah blah" 05:34:16 eli: that's a nice workaround 05:34:37 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 05:34:55 foof: ignore my comment, i just woke up :p (i will try recall what has triggered that thought) 05:35:21 karsten_: not really a workaround when you consider the buffer... 05:35:28 I generally have two usage cases for commenting expressions when debugging. One is to comment out print-debug lines, and ideally I prefer a more structured framework for that (e.g. debug levels). 05:36:27 The other is when I want to try a different expression from the original. If I'm not confident, I want to leave the original in the source commented out. 05:36:42 foof: [If you have a multi-level debug facility, then you're already way beyond the kind of debugging I use this thing for.] 05:37:20 foof: The second one is something that I use it for too -- but in that case I usually just use `;;' on the lines instead of a `#;'. 05:38:03 eli: it's a workaround in the sense that it doesn't answer the original question, but solves my current problem :) 05:39:19 Hmmm... given (foo bar)#;|(baz qux) with the point at |, should transpose-sexps produce (baz qux)#;|(foo bar) ? 05:39:26 That could be handy. 05:40:13 foof: That's not what Emacs is doing, but I came to a conclusion that it's what I'd want to happen. 05:40:19 offby1: BTW, if you have any working solutions, I'd be very happy... 05:40:28 :-( 05:40:30 plus, it reduces the length of my function by 50%, so consider me happy :) 05:41:26 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 05:45:10 augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:46:41 karsten_: Are you Zukowski by any chance? 05:47:11 eli: no. who's zukowski? 05:47:59 can we have a definition file preloaded into the definition window, when we start DrScheme? 05:48:22 karsten_: Just someone who asked a question on the mailing list that seemed like it was similar to what you described. 05:48:52 augustbankr: Just run drscheme with the file as a command line argument (or drop the file on the drscheme icon if you're in some GUI environment.) 05:49:54 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-141-154-225-78.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:58:31 eli: i am on ubuntu and the drag and drop method worked when I dropped the definition into the Definition window, but somehow it did not work when I dropped it on the Icon. 06:01:03 augustbankr: What did it do when you dragged a scheme file over the drscheme icon? 06:03:17 it opened drscheme plainly.. my apologies,, previously i dragged the icon on the the gnome-panel drscheme launcher and it didnot work.. now i have created the launcher on the desktop and then tried dragging the file onto it and it worked.. 06:04:53 augustbankr: Well, that sounds like something that depends on the combination of your desktop (probably gnome/whatever) and your window manager. I rarely use that stuff... 06:16:02 this method is very good.. it works. thanks for the tip. 06:20:04 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF8AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:20:36 -!- augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:25:07 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:27:13 augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:35:53 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit ["leaving"] 06:39:07 dum de dum 06:46:55 hodely frodely 06:54:57 -!- augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:56:40 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:05:07 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:08:31 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 07:18:28 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection 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14:15:33 hmmm 14:15:42 mmmmh 14:15:50 what should (values 1 2 3) return? 14:16:00 it's not further specified ;-/ 14:16:42 It returns three values, which can be received and processed by CALL-WITH-VALUES. 14:16:49 hmm 14:17:04 but only call-with-values can do useful things with it? 14:17:28 so (+ (values 3 2 1)) can yield an error, or 3? 14:17:51 In the basic language specification, yes; in the real world, anything built on top of CWV can accept VALUES, as well as anything built into the core implementation. 14:18:15 hm, ok 14:18:37 (+ (values 3 2 1)) doesn't make sense. 14:18:42 yea 14:18:50 the 'continuation' expects only one value 14:18:59 the one yielded by evaluating (values ...) 14:19:32 Right: (+ 1 (values 2)) does what you might expect. 14:19:39 hm, k 14:19:43 (+ (values 1 2 3)) is just an arity error. 14:22:15 -!- aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 14:23:03 Anyhow, you might want to think about this instead: (apply + (call-with-values (lambda () (values 1 2 3)) (lambda args args))) 14:23:57 sounds trivial 14:23:59 (lambda args args) takes the set of possible arguments and packages it up into a list, which can then be returned as a single value. It's a hack, and it's ugly, but it may provide the behaviour that you want. 14:24:05 It *is* trivial. 14:24:14 :) 14:24:22 (: 14:24:42 i'm just wondering how values might be implemented, sscm seems to pack them up into a single value 14:24:45 (sigscheme) 14:25:29 Then it's Doing It Wrong(tm), and relying on that behaviour is just as bad as relying on the evaluation order of procedures with side effects. 14:25:37 Possibly worse. 14:25:57 Anyhow, it's almost half past nine and I haven't yet had a cup of tea. I really should be going. Best of luck! 14:26:04 *gnomon* wanders off in search of breakfast 14:26:04 thanks, cu 14:26:52 i wonder why it's wrong? 14:29:05 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 14:32:15 Because it's returning a single value instead of three. 14:32:43 -!- perv [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:44 well, the distinction doesn't seem to be that important 14:33:17 r5rs example implementation uses lists to pack up multiple values 14:33:19 It's as if you called ((lambda (a b c) (+ a b c)) 1), and the system decided to pick random values for `b' and `c' instead of raising an arity error. 14:33:19 (define (values . things) 14:33:19 (call-with-current-continuation 14:33:19 (lambda (cont) (apply cont things)))) 14:38:46 It doesn't say so in the text, but the formal semantics specify an error. 14:45:44 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:48:33 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055F10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:50:38 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 14:52:14 hmm, a lot of implementations choose to make an extra value 14:57:15 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 14:58:37 jdijk [n=jerry@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #scheme 15:03:06 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 15:04:07 -!- jdijk [n=jerry@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [] 15:04:45 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 15:06:42 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:03 -!- DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:08:15 Sure. Gambit being in my opinion the most significant among them. If you have a R4RS system, or a system that otherwise for whatever reason assumes that every continuation accepts but a single value, and then by fiat you are told to support R5RS, then shoveling the values into a list is an expedient way to support values and call-with-values. However, such will fail to detect incorrect code. 15:13:44 cajetanus [n=cajetanu@aarl116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:14:51 darx [n=darx@82-37-17-145.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:15:55 hi, how can I list all the environment of a scheme session? 15:16:24 there is no standard way i know, depends on your scheme implementation, some don't even support something like that 15:16:43 hmm. 15:17:36 would have been a cool feature i think. 15:20:14 __DeepBlue [i=DeepBlue@adsl196-185-85-206-196.adsl196-3.iam.net.ma] has joined #scheme 15:20:16 yea 15:20:18 some support it 15:22:02 Doesn't belong in the language spec. Check the documentation of your implementation's debugger. Both Gambit and PLT have this (to some extent) in their debugging support. 15:25:13 -!- bpt [n=bpt@12.160.80.36] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:25:51 -!- cajetanus [n=cajetanu@aarl116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 15:30:26 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #scheme 15:34:57 Daemmerung, doesn't Scheme48 also support something similar? 15:36:42 I don't know. Wouldn't surprise me if it did. 15:44:49 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:49 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:49 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:49 -!- peyt [n=pete@li6-11.members.linode.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:49 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:49 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:45:42 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:46:14 peyt [n=pete@li6-11.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 15:49:07 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:49:19 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 15:54:50 hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC57397.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:55:42 npe [n=npe@c-24-60-48-136.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:57:16 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit ["leaving"] 15:57:25 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:57:38 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:02:31 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 16:20:01 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:34:21 I dimly recall that PLT has an API for "namespaces"; I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "gimme all the identifiers" function 16:35:03 I think it's called NAMESPACE-MAPPED-SYMBOLS. 16:37:23 rudybot: eval (namespace-mapped-symbols) 16:37:24 offby1: ; Value: (procedure? apply map for-each andmap ormap call-with-values values call-with-escape-continuation call/ec call-with-current-continuation call/cc continuation? call-with-continuation-barrier call-with-continuation-prompt call-with-composable-continuation abort-current-continuation continuation-prompt-available? make-continuation-prompt-tag default-continuation-prompt-tag continuation-prompt-tag? call-with-semaphore call-with-sema 16:37:26 *offby1* ducks 16:37:34 is it over? 16:37:44 rudybot: eval (length (namespace-mapped-symbols)) 16:37:44 offby1: ; Value: 1576 16:37:50 darx: ya got that? 16:37:51 lol 16:37:55 rudybot: eval (last-pair (namespace-mapped-symbols)) 16:37:55 offby1: ; Value: (match) 16:38:00 rudybot: eval (last-pair (sort (namespace-mapped-symbols))) 16:38:00 offby1: error: procedure sort: expects 2 arguments plus optional arguments with keywords #:cache-keys? and #:key, given 1: (procedure? apply map for-each andmap ormap call-with-values values call-with-escape-continuation call/ec call-with-current-continuation call/cc continuation? call-with-continuation-barrier call-with-continuation-prompt call-with-composable-continuation... 16:38:10 rudybot: eval (last-pair (sort (namespace-mapped-symbols) string offby1: error: string as 1st argument, given: apply; other arguments were: procedure? 16:38:28 lol 16:38:37 rudybot: eval (last-pair (sort (namespace-mapped-symbols) stringstring)) 16:38:37 offby1: ; Value: () 16:38:42 rudybot: eval (first (sort (namespace-mapped-symbols) stringstring)) 16:38:42 offby1: ; Value: #%app 16:38:56 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC57397.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:39:43 vasa [n=vasa@mm-186-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 16:42:49 -!- __DeepBlue [i=DeepBlue@adsl196-185-85-206-196.adsl196-3.iam.net.ma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:37 hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC57397.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:53:24 moghar` [n=user@156.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #scheme 16:53:53 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:56:08 pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-1-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:57:26 -!- moghar` [n=user@156.185.jawnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:57:29 moghar`` [n=user@156.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #scheme 17:00:02 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-141-154-225-78.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:28 -!- cracki is now known as cracki__ 17:04:30 -!- cracki__ is now known as cracki 17:04:57 -!- cracki is now known as cracki_ 17:06:08 perv [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has joined #scheme 17:06:25 fnord123 [n=fnord123@93-96-146-136.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:06:46 -!- moghar`` is now known as moghar 17:08:41 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:01 aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:10:12 sdda [n=SD@85.102.164.246] has joined #scheme 17:11:11 hey how can i write apply function in drscheme.Appearently apply function in drscheme is too long.Is it possible to write apply function more simple 17:19:08 -!- npe [n=npe@c-24-60-48-136.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:19:34 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@93-96-146-136.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:19:42 fnord123 [n=fnord123@93-96-146-136.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:21:48 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 17:22:24 sdda: what? (apply ...) already exists 17:25:10 apply already exist but i have to write with my hands to use another programming environment 17:25:19 in drscheme 17:25:45 I do not understand what you are talking about 17:25:56 are you saying you need to reimplement apply in some other language? 17:26:11 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:26:42 yes 17:27:04 he's probably got an assignment to implement apply, without using apply 17:27:43 which should be easy when implementing curry first 17:28:27 i implement curry actually and curry use (apply (append q s)) like that 17:30:18 are you saying that you used apply in your implementation of curry? 17:30:22 but i have to rewrite apply to use in module which is not defined in scheme.My instructor defines a module whose name is giuseppe.And while writing function giuseppe,function takes only one parameter.Example (define foo (lambda(x) (lambda(y) (lambda(z)... 17:30:32 yes 17:30:40 i am using apply in my curry function 17:31:59 karsten_, 17:32:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/71264 my curry implementation 17:34:41 nvteighen [n=nvteighe@23.Red-88-8-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:39:29 are there another way to implement curry without apply 17:42:41 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-117-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:42:50 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:43:44 a-s [n=user@92.80.98.132] has joined #scheme 17:45:17 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC57397.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:46:38 sdda: buying some in your supermarket? 17:46:48 I'm not entirely sure you _can_ write apply ... 17:47:09 aren't there a few builtins that you cannot write on your own? Certainly "lambda" is one such 17:47:53 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@93-96-146-136.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:53 yeah, well, you can write curry using apply or apply using curry, but i don't know how to write either of them without the other 17:47:56 offby1: If you have an upper bound on the number of arguments passed to a procedure, you can write "apply". 17:47:56 chandler, memo from michaelw: do the current sbcl binaries for OSX work on 10.4? 17:48:10 chandler: aha 17:48:17 offby1, actually i just wonna not use apply.I dont wonna struggle with apply :D 17:49:28 r5rs eval 17:49:28 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_578 17:49:29 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/4qfyda 17:49:31 I have no idea how I'd write "curry" :-| 17:49:41 the two bots are like a tag team! 17:49:46 Tinker to Evans to Chance! 17:50:25 If your Scheme's eval allows you to include a literal procedure in the expression, you can abuse that too. 17:50:51 rudybot: eval (let ((f (lambda x x))) (eval `(,f 1 2 3) (null-environment))) 17:50:51 chandler: error: reference to undefined identifier: null-environment 17:51:14 rudybot: eval (null-environment 5) 17:51:14 chandler: error: reference to undefined identifier: null-environment 17:51:20 ...? 17:51:29 rudybot: eval (scheme-report-environment 5) 17:51:29 chandler: error: reference to undefined identifier: scheme-report-environment 17:51:38 rudybot: eval (interaction-environment) 17:51:38 chandler: error: reference to undefined identifier: interaction-environment 17:51:48 offby1: what is this broken bot? 17:51:59 incubot: eval (null-environment 5) 17:52:00 # 17:52:04 I'm pretty sure PLT doesn't allow literals in macroexpansions, if that's what you meant. 17:52:15 incubot: eval (let ((f (lambda x x))) (eval `(,f 1 2 3) (null-environment 5))) 17:52:15 Error: illegal non-atomic object: # 17:52:25 chandler: I think you need to explicitly ask for R5RS-ness 17:52:57 ... and I'm not sure if you can get rudybot to ask, since I've already chosen the "language" it uses to eval; I dunno if you can supplant it 17:53:07 I could add an "r5eval" command or something. 17:53:51 rudybot: eval (begin (require r5rs) (scheme-report-environment)) 17:53:53 offby1: error: procedure scheme-report-environment: expects 1 argument, given 0 17:54:08 eval (let ((f (lambda x x))) (eval `(,f 1 2 3) (null-environment))) 17:54:11 rudybot: eval (let ((f (lambda x x))) (eval `(,f 1 2 3) (null-environment))) 17:54:11 offby1: error: procedure null-environment: expects 1 argument, given 0 17:54:14 hmm 17:54:47 rudybot: eval (let ((f (lambda x x))) (eval `(,f 1 2 3) (null-environment 5))) 17:54:47 offby1: ; Value: {1 2 3} 17:54:51 there ya go 17:55:07 i wrote a curry (define curry (lambda (f) 17:55:07 (lambda (x) 17:55:07 (lambda (y) (f x y))))) but something diffrence in other curry i pasted http://paste.lisp.org/display/71264.The difference curry in address takes several variable and a function.This cury i wrote in the channel takes one funtion and two variable.Hot can i fix that. 17:55:07 the curly braces indicate that the list is made of _mutable_ conses, which aren't default in PLT scheme 17:56:43 pardon, but what is 'curry' supposed to be? 17:57:31 nvteighen: it takes a procedure of n arguments and m arguments, where m <= n. it returns a procedure of n-m arguments that behaves just as the procedure passed as the first argument, but with the first m arguments predefined. 17:58:05 ok 17:58:16 i guess curry is haskell function 17:58:41 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:59:54 karsten_, 18:00:20 well, it's acutally named after a guy called haskell curry :) 18:00:26 curry inthat address http://www.cs.utah.edu/classes/cs2010-mflatt/f03/lecture16-4u.pdf is wrong ?Because in that function curry takes two variable and one function 18:02:02 sdda: no, it's just a simpler version of curry that doesn't deal with variable numbers of arguments 18:03:01 hmm 18:04:03 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 18:04:05 i know that logical of curry is that curry behaves like an argument of other function 18:04:08 for example 18:05:15 -!- nvteighen [n=nvteighe@23.Red-88-8-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 18:07:30 anyway 18:08:27 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE216.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:12:45 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 18:13:18 Vítejte. 18:14:59 I'm guessing "Vítejte" is a greeting, but ... what language? 18:15:27 ah, Czech 18:16:33 hey 18:16:45 are there a function that works like apply in scheme 18:16:55 I can't think of one 18:17:40 hmm 18:17:52 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 18:19:41 i wrote a simple curry function this is very simmple.But i am not sure.This works like original curry. (define (curry f) 18:19:41 (lambda (v1) 18:19:41 (lambda (v2) 18:19:41 (f v1 v2)))) original curry is (define curry 18:19:41 (lambda (f . ps) 18:19:43 (lambda qs 18:19:45 (apply f (append ps qs))))) 18:20:39 fnord123 [n=fnord123@93-96-146-136.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:21:27 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:25:11 fnord1231 [n=fnord123@93-96-239-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:26:51 -!- fnord1231 [n=fnord123@93-96-239-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has left #scheme 18:30:39 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 18:35:59 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:36:32 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:38:42 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 18:40:01 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@93-96-146-136.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:07 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 18:43:05 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE216.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:45:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:56 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 18:46:03 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 18:46:47 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 18:47:47 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 18:56:15 -!- aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:25 incubot: able was I ere I saw elba 18:56:28 well, last time they put an eloquent French leader on Elba, he managed to talk the prison staff into being _his_ staff, and eventually took over europe... 18:56:59 aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:59:11 incubot: It is for the connection with Napoleon that Elba is best known internationally. 18:59:14 Let's put him on Elba! 18:59:32 incubot: Napoleon's stay on Elba is the basis for the famous English language palindrome: "Able was I ere I saw Elba." 18:59:35 well, last time they put an eloquent French leader on Elba, he managed to talk the prison staff into being _his_ staff, and eventually took over europe... 19:00:30 incubot: Vive La Napoleon! 19:00:33 Vive La Stalin! All your balls belong to us! Dutch beer sucks! Gee, what a great game! 19:02:14 incubot: Too bad Heineken sucks.. 19:02:16 Bah, Y sucks. 19:04:24 incubot: Are you recurring? 19:04:26 Right, you had the recurring incorrect impression that I was in Austin, whereas I was only IRCing from a machine there. I think I was in Pittsburgh last time I was a regular here. 19:10:49 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:10:49 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-89.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:10:49 -!- jimt [n=jim@202.27.212.33] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:10:49 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:10:53 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:35 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 19:12:36 jimt [n=jim@202.27.212.33] has joined #scheme 19:13:48 incubot: later tell sarahbot: Let's rendezvous in the forests of Fontainebleau! 19:13:50 "Earth's forests are too big to disappear completely..." 19:17:03 klutometis: if incubot finds a number of matches for a word, how does it pick one? 19:18:46 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 19:29:43 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-33-237.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["aunt jemima is the devil!"] 19:30:39 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-89.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:32:49 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-9-80.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:35:35 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:55 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-89.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:40:51 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE216.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:40:54 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:40:57 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 19:42:39 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 19:44:40 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 19:45:48 incubot: recuring earth 19:45:50 Lets see. Basically I was doing stuff with lists like recuring up and down them. 19:46:10 incubot: help 19:46:12 I nominate you to help. 19:46:18 incubot: forests 19:46:20 In a place out of doors, near forests and meadows, stands a jar of vinegar - the emblem of life. Confucius approaches the jar, dips his finger in and tastes the brew. "Sour," he says."Nonetheless, I can see where it could be very useful in preparing certain foods." Buddha comes to the vinegar jar, dips in a finger and has a taste. "Bitter," is his comment. "It can cause suffering to the palate, and since suffering is to be avoided, the stuff should be dis 19:47:42 amazing how effective those quotes are. 19:51:00 -!- jimt [n=jim@202.27.212.33] has left #scheme 19:52:21 -!- aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 19:53:02 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 19:54:57 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:41 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:02:47 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:00 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:03:45 incubot: zymoscope 20:03:54 incubot: zymoscope 20:04:29 zymoscope are fun 20:04:34 incubot: zymoscope 20:04:41 *eli* slaps incubot 20:05:22 slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB4DAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:07:43 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 20:10:23 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:11:31 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:12:12 augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:12:17 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-141-154-225-78.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:12:30 DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:16:44 -!- augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:22:42 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 20:26:35 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:26:52 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 20:34:57 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 20:36:12 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@user-0c8h205.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 20:40:51 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:42:08 athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 20:43:46 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:46:18 -!- athos_ is now known as athos 20:55:31 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:56:11 -!- Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:56:16 Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 20:56:56 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-225-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:57:23 -!- mike is now known as Guest15123 20:58:06 -!- Guest15123 is now known as mike______ 21:00:29 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:35 -!- slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB4DAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:06:42 benny [n=benny@i577A1D0F.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 21:09:06 what was I gonna ask eli ... 21:09:08 nuts 21:09:23 incubot: coffee 21:09:25 you're either going to program for Microsoft or make coffee for Starbucks? 21:09:32 very impressive. 21:16:27 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:17:34 incubot: tea 21:18:54 oh, c'mon. 21:19:02 Surely he knows something with the word "tea" in it. 21:19:14 It seemed likely given the name 21:19:28 ? 21:19:33 rudybot: uptime 21:19:33 offby1: I've been up for one week, six days; this tcp/ip connection has been up for one week, six days 21:20:58 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:08 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:21:16 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:25 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:21:49 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 21:28:51 saccade_ [n=saccade@207.180.186.165] has joined #scheme 21:30:07 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@207.180.186.165] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:13 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:32:24 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:34:14 the uptime record seems to be about three weeks, back in September. Let's try to beat that! C'mon, everybody! 21:34:55 What, we all band together to not ask awkward questions? 21:35:05 something like that. 21:35:08 Also pray for him. 21:35:27 Jarvellis: it used to be that "eval" would ... occasionally ... kill him. I _think_ I've fixed that. 21:35:33 rudybot: eval (die die die) 21:35:33 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: die 21:35:36 I have nothing to pray to, but rudybot is cleverer than me, so i can do the hard question bit 21:35:38 rudybot: eval (exit 1) 21:35:38 offby1: error: exit: user code cannot exit 21:36:57 That's a stupid error message. 21:37:21 if you say so 21:37:41 I wonder if `exit' should just kill the sandbox... 21:38:05 That will probably make all kinds of things break though. 21:38:10 -!- mike______ [n=mike@dslb-088-066-225-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:38:26 huhm 21:38:39 rudybot: eval (let loop ((s "")) (loop (string-append s "X"))) 21:38:44 karsten_: error: with-limit: out of time 21:38:51 So rudibot is yours offby1? 21:39:26 rudybot: eval (let loop ((s "")) (loop (string-append s (make-string 100000 #\space))))) 21:39:26 karsten_: error: eval:1:73: read: unexpected `)' 21:39:47 rudybot: eval (let loop ((s "")) (loop (string-append s (make-string 100000 #\space)))) 21:39:49 karsten_: error: with-limit: out of memory 21:39:49 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:40:11 Jarvellis: yes 21:40:44 offby1: jolly good show 21:41:01 he doesn't do much, but what he does do, he does pretty well. 21:41:39 He seems to do enough to be very useful 21:41:51 thanks 21:42:28 rtra_ [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 21:42:37 Is he open source? 21:43:58 *eli* added a new `sandbox-exit-handler' parameter 21:44:24 huh 21:44:26 Jarvellis: yes 21:44:28 rudybot: source 21:44:28 offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot 21:45:01 offby1: thanks 21:45:05 rudybot: thanks 21:45:06 the hardest thing about git is remembering which working tree has my unpushed changes ... 21:45:17 offby1: Just so you can, at least in theory, control what happens when someone evaluates `exit'. 21:45:31 I know I added some more security stuff around the sandbox code, but never pushed it ... now I can't remember which machine that code is on :-| 21:45:53 eli: couldn't I accomplish the same thing by simply binding "exit" to the procedure of my choice? 21:46:24 offby1: You could, but that's the same kind of cheating as making a safe sandbox by removing all FS bindings... 21:46:37 dunno how it's "cheating". 21:46:44 Sure it is... 21:46:58 You'd also need to control `require' so people can't get it in themselves, 21:47:10 ah yes 21:47:18 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE216.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:47:20 and you'd also need to make sure that you hide all functions that might call `exit'. 21:47:25 it almost seems like there needs to be a "sandbox" language 21:47:54 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:58 but surely there are lots of other dangerous functions besides "exit"; would we need a separate parameter for each of them? 21:48:02 Well, that's very easy -- but it's not really the right facility to get a *practical* sandbox -- one that is the full language. 21:48:27 Yes, there are several of them -- but not that many. 21:48:49 I keep thinking I should have the sandbox simply be a separate process (running as a user with very few privileges), and let the OS handle the security. 21:48:55 In a sense, the sandbox library abstracts over all of them, so you don't need to think of new features making it possible to break your bot. 21:49:07 Why? 21:49:26 That would be a cheap trick... 21:49:39 seems safer -- it's less likely that there's a leak in the OS than in the sandbox code (no offense) 21:51:04 Of course it is -- but it's really nice to be able to do so in scheme... 21:51:37 Besides, it shouldn't come as a surprise that OSs have holes too -- so you really need a separate virtual machine. 21:51:57 And from there it's easy to require a separate physical machine. 21:51:58 If I need to eval something... (define (func) (eval test)) what's a good default for test that would effectivelly be a no-op? 21:53:05 Arelius: 0? #f? #:? 21:53:37 Ahh yes, I was trying '() but as you can imagine, that ends up as () 21:54:46 rudybot: eval (eval 3) 21:54:47 offby1: error: procedure meval: expects 2 arguments, given 1: 3 21:54:57 rudybot: eval (eval 3 (null-environment 5)) 21:54:57 offby1: ; Value: 3 21:55:08 rudybot: eval (eval '(list 1 2 3) (null-environment 5)) 21:55:08 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: list 21:55:14 rudybot: eval (eval '(list 1 2 3) (scheme-report-environment 5)) 21:55:14 offby1: ; Value: {1 2 3} 22:06:47 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 22:07:01 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:39 slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB6DBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:07 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180068093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:06 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:18:18 wow... the whole dispatch concept is pretty cool... learned it over a month ago.. but after continued practice, it usefulness eventually becomes evident 22:21:15 -!- sdda [n=SD@85.102.164.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:59 hi, could someone help me in finding out why (fak2 n) never really ends? http://np.gfx-dose.de/869/na/ 22:23:14 because if cannot be implemented as a function 22:23:38 arguments are evaluated strict in scheme, so all arguments are evaluated _before_ they are passed to the function. 22:24:17 so..it actually doenst get to the if in the my-if function? 22:24:31 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:25:36 right, it always evaluates (= n 0), 0 and (* n (fak2 (- n 1))), which in turn evaluates (= n 0), 0 and.... 22:27:10 ok thanks :) 22:27:12 bzw danke 22:27:18 bitte :) 22:28:58 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:29:04 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 22:33:45 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 22:35:05 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 22:42:42 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-186-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:50:39 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has left #scheme 22:54:33 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:01:09 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:34 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 23:01:52 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.175] has joined #scheme 23:09:28 -!- slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB6DBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:10:07 augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:11:10 aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 23:15:05 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 23:15:14 -!- augustbankr [n=augustba@68-116-166-32.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:16:50 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 23:28:14 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska144121.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:31:17 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:33:42 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 23:39:43 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-103-31.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:41:45 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:47:13 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.175] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:47:19 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 23:47:20 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? 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