00:00:16 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:01:45 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:04:20 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 00:08:50 brianf [n=brian@external-asa-hq-bllvwa.corp.strata8.net] has joined #scheme 00:10:28 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:12:55 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:01 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.88.42] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:25:08 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:52 *elf* blinks a bit. 00:27:58 whoa, kicks happened. 00:28:35 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 00:28:51 more to come if you don't watch out *shakes finger* 00:29:04 *elf* raises an eyebrow. 00:29:45 :P 00:30:04 *gnomon* kicks elf in the shin 00:30:11 *gnomon* points at merlincorey 00:30:22 mornin gnomon. 00:30:25 what is nnl-labs? 00:30:45 I give up. What is it? 00:31:01 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:02 (morning, elf!) 00:31:11 A web site where at least one thick-skulled cretin spews spittle. 00:31:17 (This narrows it right down on the internet.) 00:31:20 im not impressed with the 'omg i dont know how to trace funccalls and im too dumb to go to the chicken site to read the internals doc' 00:32:17 *elf* ponders clogging the tubes enough to make people actually talk to the people physically around them again. 00:32:19 He wasn't too dumb to do that, elf. 00:32:46 He didn't, however, want to learn anything from them. 00:32:55 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 00:32:56 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 00:32:56 'and the web, the web was useless when it came to trying to find resources for reverse engineering chicken applications' 00:33:00 i see. 00:33:59 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:38:08 weird question: does anyone know of any reasonable united-states-national dsl providers that will give static ips and do dns reversing? 00:38:36 reversing a Scheme application is really annoying compared to something like C or C++, I am pretty sure. 00:39:29 chicken compiles to c, not to native. 00:39:38 you'd have to know how a Scheme implementation implements the compiled code, and since almost all the code you end up reversing is not in C... 00:39:41 so if hes looking at a binary, it is from c code. :) 00:39:43 Adamant, you think that's bad? Try reverse-engineering code written in dc(1)... or, $DEITY help you, Malbolge. 00:40:24 elf: it still doesn't work like a regular C binary 00:40:50 and I should say "not in Scheme", not "not in C" 00:44:06 *elf* ponders. the behaviour that hes describing, as i see it, is normal behaviour under -Os in gcc. 00:44:22 it has nothing to do with it being from scheme code. 00:47:53 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057C01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:00:43 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:02:29 bcow, I see that you lied about having six days until the assignment was due. I'm not impressed by that at all. 01:06:01 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:06:25 i lied gnomon ? 01:06:27 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:07:11 http://pastie.org/309968 <-- i can't seem to find the appropriate objects (unless there is parsing going on). 01:07:21 minion: who do you return? 01:07:22 me 01:07:37 minion: nooooh, "continuous passing style" 01:07:38 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 01:07:40 bcow, the due date for the assignment was today, not six days hence. 01:08:38 umm no... its due nov 11th 01:09:27 Oh? 01:09:44 ya... 01:10:07 what made you think otherwise ? 01:12:24 do schemers choose scheme over lisp because Common Lisp is bloat? 01:12:53 bcow, I was under the impression that you were working on assignment 4 for CSC 330 of UVic. 01:13:11 JohnnyL, in a word, no. 01:13:36 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:14:33 gnomon nah, wrong province man 01:14:48 Ah! 01:15:08 In that case, I beg your pardon. Thanks for being more courteous about the misunderstanding than I was. 01:15:31 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #scheme 01:15:32 JohnnyL: a perceived clumsiness prevents me from going to CL from scheme 01:17:55 klutometis ok 01:18:46 np 01:19:24 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 01:20:24 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:20:42 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:25:59 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:48 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 01:28:31 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:30:04 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 01:30:20 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-212.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:31:46 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:32:20 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:33:27 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 01:34:36 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:35:39 error_de1eloper_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:35:47 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:40:01 duke523 [n=duke523@h-69-3-223-38.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 01:40:11 -!- duke523 [n=duke523@h-69-3-223-38.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has left #scheme 01:40:36 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:42:14 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 01:47:18 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:49:02 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:50:27 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 01:59:09 -!- ggbbgg [n=russd@willers.employees.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:04:15 -!- error_de1eloper_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:05:00 rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 02:08:07 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:08:45 whats the magic in make-url? 02:20:47 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.202.0] has joined #scheme 02:21:31 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:22:47 demoncyber_ [n=demoncyb@189.31.114.185] has joined #scheme 02:25:02 emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:25:54 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:45 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 02:30:53 -!- emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:31:08 emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:32:41 there's magic? 02:33:11 Magic! 02:33:53 I like make-url... in python there is no standard URL object. -_- 02:35:43 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:36:59 -!- emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:37:11 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:39:11 klutometis what part of lisp do you think is clumsy. lol 02:41:20 nring [n=nring@CPE-124-191-37-233.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 02:43:16 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:43:29 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:45:07 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 02:46:10 funcall is the obvious example, JohnnyL. restricted namespaces in general. 02:54:38 synthasee what do you mean by restricted namespaces? 02:54:42 synx ^ 02:56:24 JohnnyL: You cannot name a lambda as a function in lisp. Only certain names can be used as functions, and you don't have access to them. You have to assign it to the "not functions" namespace, then use funcall to call it. 02:57:02 Or at least that's what I was told, is that using funcall everywhere is much more reasonable than intruding upon the functions namespace. The goal I think is so you can have a function called car and a variable called car at the same time. 02:57:25 So (car car) would be valid lisp, depending on the syntax. And (funcall car car) could be something totally different. 03:04:45 Ask on #lisp though, people here are biased towards #scheme :> 03:04:49 cl I mean, by lisp 03:09:29 synx ah ok. 03:09:31 thanks 03:10:07 besides come on 03:10:17 who wants to use a web server called "hunchentoot?" 03:10:25 annodomini [n=lambda@c-66-30-138-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:10:25 me meee 03:10:50 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11:05 I'd settle for having named a server "hunchentoot." 03:11:41 I'd settle for a servant named Hunch N Toot 03:11:49 I'd even fill in his withholding forms for him 03:11:56 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:12:52 ;_; 03:14:24 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:15:53 No, I'll name it "Klactoveedsedstene." 03:16:30 we need more computer-science terms named after S J Perelman characters. 03:16:33 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:17:44 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 03:17:53 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:20:12 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179196092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:37 sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 03:31:27 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 03:37:16 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-22-23.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:37:41 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:48:25 Hrm, recommendations for CSV libraries anyone? 03:51:41 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-241-233.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:48 there's something that works in PLaneT 03:52:52 I used it once 03:54:36 offby1: Is that the one from neilvandyke? 03:54:45 yes. 03:54:57 Eherm, I guess, Neil Van Dyke makes more sense. 03:55:07 Hrm. That's GPL. 03:55:14 *arcfide* shrugs. 03:55:21 *offby1* shrugs 03:55:22 I guess it will work for my purposes. 03:57:58 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 03:59:23 I have an issue with the GPL 03:59:59 When you use GPL code, generally it makes your own code GPL, unless you use their enigmatic "binary interface" exception. And actually I'm fine with that. 04:00:50 But they require you put the entire GPL preamble at the top of every file, and that's annoying. I hear it's a legal technicality, but if the license is already viral, why can't I just put a file in the directory saying what governs the code? 04:01:25 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180069002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:02:28 synx: I actually prefer License information in the file. 04:02:32 elmex [n=elmex@e180067036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:03:49 It's so redundant... 04:04:09 synx: It is, but I at least like to have something. 04:04:20 I suppose. 04:04:42 You know, it's almost impossible to do GPL work without all your code you write going GPL. 04:04:47 Like all code you've ever written. x3 04:05:25 synx: That's why I don't write my code in the GPL. 04:05:36 If you ever have to use code that you made which is an extremely common, useful and simple algorithm, you still have to GPL it, and if it's been used in all your projects, then all of them get GPL'd too. 04:05:56 but arcfide, how can you have the GPL at the top of the file, if it's not released under the GPL? 04:07:12 Eh? 04:07:49 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:12:57 replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:13:20 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 04:17:35 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 04:19:47 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-241-233.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 04:25:51 -!- cpfr [n=cf@dynamic-162-112.usc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:45 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 04:30:41 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 04:30:45 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:33:32 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-29-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:34:28 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:37:53 grnman [n=grnman@c-76-110-165-179.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:41:44 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 04:44:26 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:45:21 You said you didn't write your code under the GPL... 04:45:30 oh 04:45:33 duh 04:45:44 You put the license in the file, and it's not the GPL. 04:45:58 synx: Yes. :-) 04:46:16 Actually, reading about combined stuff, I see that the ISC license, which I use, is GPL-compatible. 04:46:43 But, I don't see in this case what happens if I want to release a combined program without the source code for an ISC Licensed part of that combination. 04:46:51 It appears that this isn't possible. 04:47:30 I don't like the idea of someone taking my freely contributed code, claiming it as their own, and selling some closed source product for big bux. But at the same time it's troublesome to have that retroactive licensing, where nothing GPL can use anything non-GPL. 04:48:12 synx: I have problems with someone claiming it as their onw, but selling it as a closed source product? No. 04:48:56 Well they can't close the source if they don't conceal where the source came from. Otherwise their competitors just look at your source. 04:49:14 synx: Well, the ISC License prohibits that. 04:49:23 synx: You still have to include the license terms and notices. 04:49:25 example being the GPL code in the leaked version of Windows 2k 04:49:28 Including copyrights. 04:49:39 Oh, but not the source? 04:49:45 synx: Right. 04:49:59 hm... 04:50:01 The license says that you can do with it as you please so long as you include the permissions and copyrights, &c. 04:50:19 How would you tell that your code was being used, if they closed the source? 04:50:23 So, for example, I think Opera contains some of this stuff, and in the About Opera page, you have those notices and copyrights. 04:50:32 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-22-23.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:51:30 synx: If you look at the about page for Opera, you'll see that the string-to-number and such libraries are under an ISC license. 04:52:09 Well, it's not quite ISC, but it's close. 04:52:40 I hear you, but that's because the Opera developers admitted so out of the kindness of their hearts. 04:52:41 Actually, that's what the big uproar in OpenBSD was about a while back, because some people thought that the ISC License let them "relicense" the code into GPL. 04:53:17 synx: Well, that's the case with anything. If some company included GPL software, but hides it well, how would you know? 04:53:41 Heh, like Windows 2K 04:53:49 I thought were just sick of GPL people taking BSD code and not giving any BSD licensed code back 04:53:54 synx: I don't think they hid it well. 04:54:02 synx: was there actualy GPL code in Win2K? 04:54:09 They did until it got leaked! 04:54:16 I know there is various flavors of BSD 04:54:27 It's illegal to look at the Windows 2K source code, but it's just a silly rumor I heard. 04:54:29 but that's all legal and proper 04:54:31 Adamant: That was a general complaint, but no, in this particular case, some guys tried to change the licenses. 04:54:42 ah 04:55:13 yeah, you can't change a copyright license 04:55:23 usually 04:55:24 Actually, funny as it seems, I think that many patches are contributed by big corporate employees who use the stuff in the course of their commercial products. 04:55:43 they probably are 04:55:46 I kind of like those "creative commons" licenses. BSD would be "by-nc" and GPL would be "by-nc-sa" 04:56:02 Apple uses a lot of BSD code and contributes a fair amount back 04:56:13 Really the problem is that in a voluntary openness situation, the people who game the system and close source are at an advantage. 04:56:17 yes 04:56:28 I find it funny that the GPL people are so set on their GPL License (some of them) that they aren't willing to "give back" many times. 04:56:30 but the problem is people don't want GPL for everything either 04:56:33 It's like if you're allowed to turn yourself into the cops. Ain't gonna happen. 04:56:49 unless you're a free software zealot 04:56:58 many times you don't want to use the GPL 04:56:59 synx: Enforcing copyright has always been hard. 04:57:03 arcfide: Legally it may be impossible to "give back" as you say. They're bound by the GPL on their own code after all. 04:57:14 for instance, language implementations 04:57:25 synx: As copyright owners, they can license it however they want. 04:57:32 No I mean enforcing openness. Copyright is easy to enforce, just keep everything secret and don't help anyone. 04:58:12 synx: Well, assuming that you want people to use your code, but only use it the way you want, which I guess you would call openness. 04:58:17 If nobody ever sees your source, they can't copy it, problem solved. Getting people to play nice is much more difficult to enforce. 04:58:19 the push to either use standardized languages or ones with very permissive licenses is due to too many people being screwed by either proprietary vendors or the GPL or similarly restrictive licenses 04:58:47 LunarCrisis [n=LunarCri@toronto-hs-216-138-195-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #scheme 04:59:12 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0376.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:59:16 synx: I would disagree with that given the current state of reversing technology. 04:59:19 Is there a gensym for syntax objects in plt-scheme, or should I just use #`#,(gensym)? 04:59:36 arcfide: Sorry I was getting sidetracked. I meant that people who do have unrestrictive copyrights are at a disadvantage, not that those copyrights aren't still closed in one way or another. 05:00:08 Adamant: Has anyone ever gotten screwed by the GPL? o.O I only talk about it in theory... 05:00:24 synx: not specifically the GPL 05:00:36 reversing technology is illegal 05:00:43 but OCaml has had adoption problems due to their compiler license 05:00:44 synx, `it's illegal to look at the Windows 2K source code' -- that is patently absurd. 05:00:58 Yes, but you included the GPL in that "things which have screwed people" 05:00:59 synx: no. some EULA's may say it is 05:01:14 synx: GPL can create similar problems 05:01:25 it was the Q License IIRC 05:01:26 Riastradh: It's true though. It's a trade secret violation. You have to sign a NDA or something, after proving your loyalty sufficiently. 05:01:28 yes the old one 05:01:48 QT's license? 05:01:53 synx, it may be illegal to *distribute* the source code. 05:02:03 synx: trade secret prosecution is incredibly difficult unless you are the one who leaked it 05:02:09 synx, there is a world of difference between distribution and eyeballing, however. 05:02:25 I'm not a lawyer, just a programmer trying not to get screwed over. 05:02:30 yeah 05:02:54 Riastradh: There are some who would dispute that. It all comes down to "it's only illegal if I'm not making money" I'd say. 05:03:16 well trade secrets are the least respected IP laws, in general. even trade secret lawyers complain about that 05:03:28 It's legal to sing songs, unless you try to sell yourself singing them, then the lawyers start to descend. Suddenly singing becomes illegal, at the convenience of the industry. 05:04:00 heh didn't that Scientology guy get extradited from Canada just because of some trade secret violation? 05:04:04 I wouldn't read MS source code if you work on a competing OS 05:04:24 no, copyright 05:04:37 unless he directly leaked their stuff 05:05:02 as in he was a member and had access 05:05:37 the Church has their stuff copyrighted as well 05:05:43 He leaked the 'secret documents' or whatever. They tried copyright and failed, but eventually found a way to get him on trade secrets. 05:06:54 yeah, they can get him then, since he was part of the organization 05:07:04 On an unrelated note one of the things in those docs says that one should game the legal system to punish people who threaten your beliefs. 05:07:19 quelle surprise 05:08:00 anyway 05:08:22 So trade secret laws are enforced... 05:08:42 one of the reasons Haskell has had very good adoption is because it's niche is partially filled by OCaml, but compiler tinkerers can work with Haskell more easily 05:08:44 I'm not sure how much though. Every programming job pretty much comes with an NDA... 05:09:29 synx: you're not a MS employee or affliated partner and you didn't sign a NDA 05:09:42 that's pretty much what protects you in the specified case 05:10:40 it's more or less the same theory as the Pentagon Papers. it was illegal for D.E. to leak them, but not illegal for the NYT to print them once he gave them to him 05:14:06 Ah okay that makes sense. 05:14:13 I don't hafta like it, but it makes sense 05:17:11 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:20:03 wy_ [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:20:33 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:26:16 synx: right, fortunately the First Amendment has trumped any attempt at a Official Secrets Acts in the US 05:26:40 that's why government employees with clearances have to sign most of these rights away 05:27:09 -!- wy_ [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:27:33 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176208166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:57 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176200030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:29:56 ? 05:30:16 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless297.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:30:37 So you're saying First Amendment has not trumped it, since they're forced to sign it away anyway. Or you mean that it still exists, but only for the NYT... 05:31:47 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:33:07 synx: no, you have to sign away it because of the First Amendment. government employees can voluntarily have some of their rights restricted, see: US military and the otherwise unConstituional US Code of Military Justice. 05:33:28 the Official Secrets Act applies to EVERYONE in Britain 05:33:32 government employee or not 05:33:51 incubot: are contracts that require the signing away of constitutional rights enforceable in court? 05:33:53 Hacker, mountain climber, self-taught Constitutional guru. If anything he's overqualified for the position. 05:34:05 haha 05:34:22 this is just my understanding of the law 05:34:37 and I am decidedly not a lawyer 05:35:18 but military contracts are obviously not illegal, and they require it. 05:35:48 the UCMJ enforces several unConstitutional provisions 05:35:59 at least if you applied it to civilians 05:38:00 Ohh okay, my bad. 05:38:37 summary execution is generally not cool from a Constitutional standpoint but legally kosher in certain situations under the UCMJ. 05:39:09 The Constitution really isn't that great a document. Heck they had to amend it a bunch of times. even then... 05:39:30 synx: you're right, but get a load of what the French created 05:39:46 libertie, egalitie, guillotinee 05:40:05 The 1st amendment doesn't say the president can't use his army to stop free speech, nor does it say that you can't stop free speech using threats or bullying. All it applies to is the laws Congress passes. Which is important, granted, but... 05:40:46 synx: posse comititus, terroristic threats 05:40:48 It's not as great as people think it is. Very little freedom in fact. 05:41:36 given that not a single other country on Earth has a real equivalent to the First Amendment, I'm gonna disagree. 05:41:54 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 05:41:58 which is really sad given that they give lip service to the principle. 05:42:03 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.60.161] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:44:00 -!- replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:48:11 *klutometis* had to sell his soul for level 1 clearance 05:50:01 incubot: source 05:50:04 I most run from either the stable package, or building the CVS source, so I'm not sure about how that 299 version package works 05:50:10 tsk tsk 05:50:18 klutometis: is the source available? 05:51:18 offby1: there's a git repo 05:51:28 let me make sure i didn't check in any passwords; one sec 05:58:08 hee; I've done that 06:00:11 hallo klutometis 06:01:42 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:05:16 offby1: the git repo has a circo ~500 MB download because of the db; here's a tarball of the source http://incubot.org/incubot.tar.gz 06:05:29 if you want the repo, too, let me know 06:05:38 a1len: enjoy colbert; how's sicp coming? 06:06:12 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 06:06:50 @klutometis: About to crack open the text right now. Windows crashed in my sister's laptop, so I'm fixing that for her right now. 06:07:20 @klutometis: So I'm actually going to crack the text in about a half hour XD 06:11:10 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:11:21 want repository! want repository! 06:12:43 -!- LunarCrisis [n=LunarCri@toronto-hs-216-138-195-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has quit ["Succumbed to RL"] 06:15:51 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:15:52 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberries"] 06:19:11 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.202.0] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:19:50 boy, that object #78 sure is a doozy 06:21:27 which one's that: do you have a sha1? 06:21:29 they're all doozies 06:22:25 nah 06:22:33 I assume it's the ~500MB db 06:23:13 offby1: not sure how to handle that, now that i've tainted the repo 06:23:28 it makes it unwieldy, and yet i'd like to have some canonical examples to test on 06:23:40 i wonder if i can recontsruct the repo without the db somehow 06:30:01 sure 06:30:06 git-filter-branch 06:30:18 never used it, but I hear it's all the rage 06:32:08 i feel like such a loser going on these WEP-cracking channels 06:32:17 but i promised a friend i'll look into cracking some wireless for him 06:32:26 cracker! 06:32:27 honky! 06:32:28 and the people in those channels are rude too 06:32:36 I'm shocked, shocked. 06:34:42 I know how to crack wireless :) 06:34:46 klutometis: funny, rudybot too has separate "main" files for freenode and otherwise. 06:34:52 a1len: oh, i really need some help 06:34:56 a1len: would you mind? 06:35:04 Sure. What os do you use? 06:35:12 a1len: i'll do this in a /query 06:36:01 offby1: it seems to be the cleanest way to go, doesn't it? 06:36:40 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:42:33 Motoko-Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:42:33 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:45:17 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:54:27 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 06:57:05 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-33-237.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:03:31 sigh 07:03:37 i'll try this wep cracking another day 07:03:58 What do you want to crack it for anyway? 07:04:02 duncanm: need help? 07:04:05 heh 07:04:13 People don't take kindly to crackers... people, or judges. 07:04:36 a1len: i don't need it now, but it'd be useful getting access to other APs in the bldg in case my wireless dies 07:04:42 they're hackers, just hackers doing illegal things and possibly of a bad nature. 07:04:49 a1len: a friend of mine wants to be able to check e-mail at home 07:05:32 duncanm: I was joking... I have all of my neighbor's wep keys in the apartment complex. 07:05:43 Just in case I need them :) 07:05:57 duncanm: the book "Wi-Foo" would help. if they know the neighbor and vice versa it might just be easier to ask them for the key 07:06:13 Adamant: yeah, i asked him to do that, but his English is not that great 07:06:24 Adamant: i was using this as a guide, http://thew0rd.com/2008/08/19/tutorial-cracking-wep-using-backtrack-3/ 07:06:44 Adamant: it all works, until the aireplay-ng -3 bit 07:06:54 what card? 07:06:59 centrino a/b/g 07:07:18 i think the reason may be because the network i was targetting has no other cards associated to it 07:07:35 i can go over to his house tomorrow and try, maybe it'll all work out 07:07:50 a1len: i see quite a few of my neighbors switched over to WPA 07:08:01 that can be the case 07:08:24 if there's nobody associated you can't steal a MAC and it won't work IIRC 07:10:08 I just don't know backtrack... I have an atheros so I know how frustrating wep cracking can be.. i feel for you duncanm 07:11:03 a1len: yeah, i bet the 'pros' have it all sorted out and with some money and connection, you can prolly buy a kit that'll do it all 07:11:18 as it is, this 'amateur' way of doing it, it seems like a hit or miss 07:11:35 the scripts have to be stringed together, it depends on the hardware and the driver, etc etc 07:11:40 it's all a waste of time ;-) 07:12:03 duncanm: anything can be did. 07:12:32 WPA may be partially cracked as well 07:12:35 just a headsup 07:12:44 Adamant: yeah, i've been following the news ;-) 07:14:21 switch to ubuntu and i'll walk you through it ;) 07:14:33 a1len: are you sure the drivers will all work out? 07:15:28 The cool thing is that.. you can change how you bring them up. 07:15:35 I'll show you in one more /q 07:15:40 one second. 07:15:46 a1len: i'll do that another time ;-) 07:15:52 i have better things to do ;-) 07:15:55 Alright. 07:16:02 thanks for the offer, though 07:16:12 no problem XD 07:16:42 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:19:22 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:19:28 Actually, I'm glad you asked in the first place; new next-door neighbors. 07:19:34 heh 07:25:21 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.19.241] has joined #scheme 07:26:48 a1len_ [n=James@cpe-76-174-234-139.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:27:37 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:27:41 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:27:56 -!- a1len_ is now known as a1len 07:28:17 whoops 07:29:44 xwl [n=user@221.221.150.23] has joined #scheme 07:38:51 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-0-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 07:44:16 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:50:01 benny [n=benny@i577A01AD.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 07:52:49 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:53:20 r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:54:15 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 07:54:26 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:56:32 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-29-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:33 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Client Quit] 07:56:48 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 07:57:58 *elf* ponders. 07:59:59 -!- bcow [n=null@S01060050fc051c84.lb.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:00:04 elf: that's bad for you; might get all existential 08:02:52 *elf* doesnt exist, so is unlikely to get existential. 08:04:27 whoops: but you cogitated, and therefore are; fell into the ol' cartesian trap (general akbar style) 08:04:45 *elf* laughs. 08:05:07 *elf* is too polar to get coordinated cartesian style. 08:05:45 oke, people just came over. afk yet again. life is exciting. sigh. 08:06:19 *r2q2* ponders about elf pondering. 08:09:26 r2q2++ 08:11:36 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-9-198.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 08:18:53 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05540B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:19:56 tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-6-38.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 08:20:41 Adamant: :-) 08:20:42 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-0-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:21:23 now is where you tell us elf is going to take over the world, zot 08:21:53 All hail elf. 08:22:00 One before elf. Two before elf. 08:25:44 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:36:49 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-9-198.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:43:28 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 08:57:18 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:00:27 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 09:02:07 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 09:12:20 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:13 -!- nring [n=nring@CPE-124-191-37-233.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:17:30 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 09:18:23 I finally get to scheme! 09:18:37 My syster is like poison to computers. 09:18:45 lol 09:18:46 syster 09:34:06 a1len: how often do you light up? 09:34:23 dum de dum 09:34:48 'smoke reefer' light up? 09:35:35 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 09:36:26 yeah 09:40:04 is this a jocular klutometis? 09:43:15 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 09:50:00 i'll have you know, good sir, that i do not smoke marijuana. good day sir. 09:50:50 a box on the ears! 10:03:22 i'm totally box-pissed 10:04:26 'that was an unpleasant box waft' 10:05:50 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:09:54 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:10:24 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:19:54 cpfr [n=cf@cpe-76-171-165-212.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:25:00 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-244-026.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:25:29 -!- mike is now known as Guest2708 10:30:47 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A187F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:33:11 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 10:34:58 kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:37:32 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:38:12 incubot: how high is her box waft factor? 10:38:14 only if you are referencing a code-unit or there are no Unicode characters in the high range in the string. 10:39:10 haha 10:45:34 Well, I'm gonna hit the hay. 10:45:41 Goodnight folks. 10:45:59 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:47:42 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:55:07 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 11:02:56 incubot? 11:02:59 thats a new one on me. 11:03:21 incubot: can you sing and dance? 11:03:23 "Hark, the herald angels sing" 11:03:50 GoNoGo [n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 11:04:19 hark the herald-tribune sings, advertising wondrous things. 11:04:28 who does incubot belong to? 11:04:45 i put it up a week or so ago 11:04:55 we needed a chicken repl 11:04:56 ah, cool. what abilities? 11:05:00 nice, a chicken bot! 11:05:00 incubot: (chicken-version) 11:05:01 3.4.0 11:05:13 not many extensions, because the chroot is tight 11:05:20 but i may ease it up a little 11:05:26 m. 11:05:34 you know the sandbox egg, yes? 11:05:42 Daemmerung, eli, zbigniew, and company were trying to break it the other day 11:05:47 elf: no i don't actually 11:05:47 or the environments egg? 11:05:49 ah. 11:06:00 i had to invent a chroot-capable daemon from scratch 11:06:01 the sandbox egg would almost work, except that it prohibits io , if i recall correctly. 11:06:08 heh. 11:06:32 that's great; offby1 used plt's sandbox, but had some problems 11:07:00 incubot: (make-vector 999999999 1) 11:07:02 Eval 8695 timed out. 11:07:05 i was jealous he had a sandbox, nevertheless 11:07:31 heh. 11:07:33 klutometis: How did you implement this? Simply a thread that times execution and shoots the other thread? 11:07:40 yeah, look at the sandbox egg and the environments egg 11:08:07 sjamaan: thread didn't work, since you could segfault it by merely calling (thread-sleep!) etc. 11:08:16 So you fork? 11:08:19 i have to dispatch a fresh, statically compiled binary every time 11:08:27 no; call it with (process) 11:08:28 Nifty 11:08:29 (actually, thread-sleep is threadsafe now. as is sleep) 11:08:37 i want maximal segregation 11:08:43 m. 11:08:45 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.150.23] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:03 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has left #scheme 11:09:26 it should be possible to run the bot in a non-chrooted env which will spawn children in a chrooted env only. 11:09:45 elf: Wouldn't that require it to run as root? 11:10:06 it runs as root, chroots itself, and drops privelegs; the children inherit the dropped priveleges 11:10:14 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-4-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:11:36 sjamaan: depends on the os. 11:11:48 in linux, you can just give it sys_chroot capabilities. which is weird. 11:12:12 wow, linux chroot is weird. 11:12:17 It sounds like a good idea though 11:12:38 It's insane to require root rights to give yourself _less_ stuff 11:13:00 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:13:00 thats not what was weird. 11:13:02 true; i played around with dropping sys_chroot. it involved a lot of ffi stuff, though, and was messy 11:13:12 it gives the recipe for getting out of chroot jails in the man page. 11:13:12 also there's all these bizarre root exploits for breaking out of jails 11:13:21 and open fds outside the jail arent closed. 11:13:34 and it doesnt autochange you into the chroot dir. 11:13:59 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:14:36 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-25-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:26:35 -!- tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-6-38.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:30:51 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-4-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:36:41 man, the sandbox egg is great; i hate it when i reinvent the wheel, poorly 11:36:51 ejs [n=eugen@126-242-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 11:38:19 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:51:06 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-41-83.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:51:26 klutometis: use a kernel that doesnt introduce multiple security holes every very frequent minor revision 11:51:50 that's your best defense against kernel exploits 11:52:06 :) 11:52:07 and chroot jailbreaking 11:52:55 of course I don't listen to my own advice. 11:55:18 heh; any suggestions? plan9? 12:03:46 OpenVMS 12:04:06 obscure and designed with security in mind BEFORE it was cool 12:04:14 double layer of protection 12:04:29 almost mostly not written in C (yet) 12:04:33 *also 12:06:50 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:08:53 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-25-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:13:34 pozic [n=Pozic@unaffiliated/pozic] has joined #scheme 12:21:52 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 12:22:16 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:22:21 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 12:23:42 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-41-227.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 12:34:20 use Open Genera. 12:34:40 that would work also, not on Tru64 12:35:37 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.19.241] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:40:15 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-41-83.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:03 -!- GoNoGo [n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 12:43:54 -!- mrtsunami [n=tsunami@gnuteens/MrTsunami] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:45:43 -!- demoncyber_ [n=demoncyb@189.31.114.185] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:50:41 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.18.214] has joined #scheme 13:08:49 mike_ [n=mike@dslb-088-066-234-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 13:09:18 -!- mike_ is now known as Guest16333 13:17:31 Daemmerung: heavy hangs the head that wears the @; eh, old boy? my kingdom for a spork, etc. 13:20:15 -!- Guest2708 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-244-026.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:13 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 13:36:59 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-44-64.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 13:45:28 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 13:47:22 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:47:45 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43E3B.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 13:49:47 xwl [n=user@221.221.150.23] has joined #scheme 13:53:15 klutometis: why you cheater -- incubot uses some sorta IRC library! 13:53:20 *offby1* sniffs 13:53:29 in MY day we wrote our IRC protocol code ourSELVES 13:53:34 oh, did you do it from scratch? 13:53:41 well, you used a sandbox library! 13:53:47 i did my sandbox from scratch 13:53:55 !! 13:53:59 I sure 'nuff didn't 13:54:06 oh wait, you're right 13:54:09 you wrote a sandbox?! 13:54:19 has Eli been at it yet? You can't handle the Eli. 13:54:31 well, a chrootable daemon; and an unprivileged process spawner 13:54:38 ah, excellent idea 13:54:47 turns out chicken has a bona fide sandbox; should have used it, actually 13:54:52 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-41-227.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:55:23 so ... << shifty eyes >> ... how does one install these here extensions? As is becoming clear, i don't use Chicken much 13:56:16 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:56:20 chicken-setup 13:56:26 ooh, new ... completely inscrutable ... logo for chicken 13:56:35 what the heck _is_ that blob 'sposed to be? 13:56:44 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:58:36 whee 13:58:44 this here chicken-setup is surprisingly easy to use 14:01:45 hmm, d'you suppose I need a version of chicken different from what I've got (2.5)? The sqlite extension fails to install, complaining "Error: argument is not a string or string vector: ("easyffi.so" "chicken-wrap")" 14:02:35 hmm, i'm using 3.3.9/3.4.0 14:02:39 mmm ... chicken wrap ... 14:02:57 that's probably it. I thought I had a dev version of chicken installed, but apparently I don't. Off to git it. 14:02:58 are you using your distros, or did you compile it? 14:03:02 distro's. 14:03:21 although it's Ubuntu (Inrepid Ibex), which I'd have thought would be reasonably up to date 14:06:47 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:07:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:08:21 ooooh. The chicken logo is ... a chicken. Sorta. 14:08:23 *offby1* squints 14:09:36 i think they were going for egg-closure dada 14:10:04 what's with the strudel? Are their spammers about? 14:10:11 You've been wearing it since last night, if I recall correctly. 14:10:15 ow. 14:10:15 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:10:17 s/their/there/ 14:10:59 not sure; Daemmerung and I were anointed by chandler 14:11:28 as temporary deputies for hellues-whack-a-mole 14:11:46 ah, good ol' hellues 14:11:58 i thought i'd set aside the crown; but, alas, it sticks 14:12:10 I can recommend a dentist 14:12:14 heh 14:13:20 is Felix Brasilian? 14:13:25 thot he was in .de 14:13:50 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A187F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:32 thought so, too 14:15:02 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Operation timed out] 14:17:16 *offby1* "git svn clone"s chicken 14:17:34 I no longer use svn if I can avoid it :-| And I was such an svn fanboy at first ... *sigh* 14:19:56 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 14:21:58 it bugs me, when using git-svn, to be constrained to linear development 14:22:07 branches are out, i think 14:22:10 Felix is German 14:22:28 But there are a number of users from Brazil 14:23:56 They were kind enough to set up a server for the wiki 14:24:25 (the wiki software, svnwiki, was also made by them) 14:24:43 klutometis: I'm slowly experimenting with branches and git svn. It's certainly doable; what I'm not sure of is: what's the _best_ way to do it? 14:24:54 sjamaan: oho! 14:25:06 oho? 14:25:09 aha! 14:25:12 "I see!" 14:25:16 "gotcha!" 14:25:18 "Roger!" 14:25:29 "I understand!" 14:25:40 etc. 14:26:46 aye 14:29:15 Speaking of VCSs, is there anything (even when considering commercial systems) better than Git? 14:30:24 Well that's a controversial question :-) 14:30:35 :) 14:30:39 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-035-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 14:30:50 I have used darcs and Git. For me Git wins, because it has some tool support. 14:31:01 What about hg? 14:31:02 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-035-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:16 chandler: how do i set aside the ampersand? i feel self-conscious 14:31:17 Oh, I also used svn, but that was a long time ago and I didn't like it. 14:31:31 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o klutometis 14:31:32 pozic: Any particular reason? 14:31:33 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-035-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 14:31:47 great; i tried messaging chanserv and got rebuked ;) 14:32:02 eww, now I can see your bald spot 14:32:06 put it back 14:32:12 You could have done /mode #scheme -o klutometis 14:32:17 But that's OK :-) 14:32:21 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o chandler 14:32:25 -!- chandler has set mode -o Daemmerung 14:32:27 -!- chandler has set mode -o chandler 14:32:29 right 14:32:34 sjamaan: the UI for git was fairly easy to learn, just like Darcs. Since SVN was my first version system, I might have been biased. 14:32:43 pozic, sjamaan : in my humble opinion, git is kinda hard to learn, and is nasty to get working on Windows. Other than that, it's awesome. 14:33:05 I am completely ignoring Windows, so I didn't notice. 14:33:15 offby1: I've heard the same 14:33:16 Has git settled down, or is the interface still changing rapidly? 14:33:27 offby1: I hear hg is git without the shit :) 14:33:37 (ie, working windows support and a sane CLI) 14:33:47 Does hg have something like gitk? 14:33:50 I'm still on svn 14:33:54 chandler: hard to tell. Seems stable to me, but on the other hand, I hear rumblings of changes to come (like replacing use of the word "index" with the word "staging") 14:33:55 pozic: What's that? 14:34:14 sjamaan: it shows a graph of patches and it scales to the Linux kernel. 14:34:17 Also, the design of git smells 14:34:25 offby1: OK. That is one of my major criteria for adoption. 14:34:32 sjamaan: hg indeed is reminiscent of git, and has first-class Windows support, and certainly has a simpler command set. I've never done more than play with it though 14:34:37 With its lost+found nonsense 14:34:42 Yes, the source code was not easy to read. Substitute easy with impossible if you want. 14:34:48 er not easy 14:35:01 sjamaan: really? What I know of the git's design is, to me, delightfully clean 14:35:02 pozic: That's another thing that's worrying 14:35:27 Git's design is clean, AFAIK. Just the program isn't. 14:35:28 offby1: I read that if a git commit or sth doesn't get completed properly, cruft is left in the system, which needs to be GC'ed 14:35:30 The other criteria is whether it'll be around in ten years (for definitions of around that are more than just "here's a five year old tarball that probably doesn't compile out of the box on OS X 10.27") 14:35:35 offby1: thanks for the filter-branch tip, by the way; worked wonders (after about two-dozen arcane follow-up commands) 14:35:47 git seems to be well on the road to passing that one. 14:36:16 chandler: I think all of the major VCs will be around in 10 years 14:36:17 sjamaan: it's true, it needs occasional gc-ing, but a) it does the gc itself automatically every once in a while; and b) you'll never notice the cruft anyway 14:36:25 sjamaan: How do you define "major"? 14:36:29 sjamaan: http://lwn.net/Articles/140350/ 14:36:31 klutometis: yay! 14:36:34 sjamaan: a screenshot 14:36:36 klutometis: should I re-clone? 14:36:38 That's my point. TLA was major for a while :-) 14:36:43 *shudder* 14:36:45 chandler: Used by enough people 14:36:50 however hard git is to learn, TLA was worse 14:36:54 TLA had that, too. 14:36:56 chandler: I think even CVS will be around in 10 years 14:37:04 *shudder* 14:37:04 Of course CVS will, as will SVN. 14:37:07 svn certainly has enough users, as does git 14:37:11 Not sure about hg 14:37:12 offby1: what is hard to do in git? 14:37:17 darcs seems too fringe to matter 14:37:19 offby1: yeah; brought it down to a couple hundred kilos 14:37:32 offby1: It does everything I need, but maybe I don't need that much. 14:37:36 pozic: getting up to speed is hard :) Once you've done that, though, pretty much everything is at least doable 14:37:43 I'm using SVN now. I won't move on to $NEWSEXY if I'm not sure it'll pass the 10-year test, which means it needs to be stickier than TLA was. 14:37:53 chandler: quite sensible. 14:37:57 What's TLA? 14:38:02 Tom Lord's Arch 14:38:22 chandler: I don't know of any big project using TLA 14:38:38 I think there were some. I'd have to go back and look. 14:38:49 klutometis: I hope I'm the only one to whom you've given the git:// URL -- filtering a repository that you'd published is considered a Bad Idea 14:38:52 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-035-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:39:07 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 14:39:07 chandler: I've certainly never heard of a big project that uses TLA. 14:39:23 offby1: you're the only one 14:39:33 OK. Then I guess I misoverestimated its stickiness. I remember a lot of the "cool kids" talking about it, but perhaps that was just idle chatter. 14:39:46 probably. 14:39:50 Cool kids talk about Bazaar and darcs too 14:39:58 'course most of the git chatter is idle, too, but then some projects actually use it. 14:39:58 But I don't see any really big projects using them 14:40:10 I think Rails moving to git was a big push 14:40:17 Now all the ruby community seems to use it 14:40:20 Arch has been a successful project, culminating 14:40:21 I would be more impressed that Linus is using it if it weren't preceded by the BK disaster. 14:40:21 ultimately in its "takeover" by Canonical corp. 14:40:22 Which is pretty big 14:40:33 According to Tom. 14:40:46 sjamaan: Heh. I'm not sure of the stickiness of Ruby, either :-) :-) 14:40:55 chandler: That's a good point 14:41:08 However, the community is currently very big, and I think it's still growing 14:41:16 In fact, even this Scheme stuff is too new-fangled for me. I'm going back to #lisp. ;-) 14:41:20 People using git now will carry it over to whatever they will use after Ruby 14:41:21 the FSF is pushing to use bzr for Emacs. Last I checked, though, bzr is too slow to use on a project that size ... but to be fair, it's gotten faster 14:41:23 :) 14:41:48 The FSF has a big NIH syndrome. 14:41:49 offby1: That *could* matter, but I don't count on it 14:42:04 Just like Hurd and the term "GNU/Linux" :) 14:42:06 pozic: it's more "bzr is a GNU project so we should support it" 14:42:31 Who owns the copyright to bzr? 14:42:34 Tooling is important 14:42:35 pozic: it's OK, though: someone out there has a git repository for Emacs which they update very frequently; I just use that :) 14:42:36 The FSF? 14:42:41 pozic: dunno, I'd guess Canonical 14:42:42 svn and git win big time, there 14:42:42 Being a GNU project is not any guarantee of success, even when it is a good project. It seems to be orthogonal. 14:43:06 It just depends on the amount of programmers that know something about computing. 14:43:06 If bzr is a GNU project, doesn't the FSF require copyright assignment? 14:43:34 And the tool must be used by some people before a release. 14:43:38 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:43:46 XMonad has a very nice development "model", imho. 14:43:54 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 14:44:16 Lots of automated testing to verify whatever invariant the programmer had in mind. 14:44:38 Not as good as having it written in Coq with correctness proofs, but still nice. 14:44:52 heh 14:44:56 "It's been proven correct? Then I *know* it doesn't work!" 14:45:14 :-| 14:45:20 Nice paraphrase, chandler :) 14:45:28 in my experience such proofs are harder to read than the code they're proving 14:45:37 Nah, there is a huge leap between a specification and something that implements the specification. 14:45:54 Specification is hard; let's go shopping. 14:46:12 Specifying something useful is probably much harder than writing the code that implements it. 14:46:18 Specification is easy, making it run efficiently is the hard part. 14:46:44 Specifying from random user requirements is hard, though. 14:46:56 Everything is easy for definitions of easy that involve non-heuristic solutions to NP-complete problems. :-) 14:47:17 chandler: in other news, all problems are O(1) to solve. 14:47:41 1. Pick correct solution. 2. ??? 3. Profit! 14:47:43 At least to find an optimal algorithm for such a problem. 14:48:20 In some sense it's amazing that humans pick the right path to a solution so often. 14:48:44 In another sense, mostly they are solving easily decomposable problems. 14:48:47 we're clever buggers 14:49:03 I think we remember the hits and forget the misses. 14:49:41 I remember "Titanic"! What a hit that was. 14:50:13 But do you remember "Gigli"? 14:52:48 *elf* hms. 14:52:48 [6~[6~[6~[6~[6~/window 51 14:53:05 Please don't cough that up into the channel. 14:53:23 aspect [i=aspect@burns.dreamhost.com] has joined #scheme 14:53:45 *offby1* glares at elf, and brushes off his suit 14:54:24 my network card is constantly spamming and flipping out. 15:00:23 well, at least try to collect some of the revenue from the spam. 15:00:34 what products is it touting? The usual Viagra etc.? 15:02:09 Subject: Enhaance yuor E macs! 15:02:50 Subject: Double her bufffers over night. 15:06:03 It takes a tough man to build Chicken. 15:10:12 wow, last time I used chicken, apparently, its version number was "315". 15:13:48 vasa [n=vasa@mm-77-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 15:17:27 annodomini [n=lambda@c-66-30-138-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:24:03 -!- kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 15:29:25 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:32 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-77-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 15:35:47 klutometis: gaah, incubot is too hard to build :-| 15:35:58 or, rather: chicken is hard 15:36:00 *offby1* goes shopping 15:39:10 *leppie* goes with 15:41:23 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-59-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:42:51 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:43:14 *offby1* curses pilot error 15:43:21 for some value of "pilot", i.e., me 15:43:33 besiria [n=user@ppp083212086002.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 15:43:56 Warning: global variable `overloaded-binding-theory' is never used 15:43:58 ok 15:43:59 gotcha 15:44:01 duly noted 15:47:00 man, running "chicken-setup" over and over is pretty tedious. 15:47:18 I wish the thing I was building would just install what it needs for me. 15:47:21 *offby1* glowers 15:48:22 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 15:50:27 glerg. 15:51:01 offby1: it should. 15:51:12 which version are you running? 15:51:20 any egg should install its dependencies automagically. 15:52:22 (you can also specify multiple eggs on the command line and use the -d switch so it doesnt ask about downloading) 15:55:08 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 15:58:24 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-44-64.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:32 offby1, why are you using the syntactic-closures egg? 16:04:37 elf: the _eggs_ indeed automagically install their dependencies, but this app I'm running isn't itself an egg 16:04:44 ah. 16:04:44 Riastradh: because the app I'm running requires it 16:04:49 What app is that? 16:04:53 incubot doesnt have an egg setup script? 16:05:03 elf: Version 3.4.0 16:05:17 Riastradh: klutometis' "incubot" 16:05:25 elf: it might, in fact; I didn't think to look for one 16:05:39 it doesnt. 16:05:42 klutometis, why are you using the syntactic-closures egg? 16:07:04 *offby1* cringes empathetically 16:07:18 hes not. 16:07:27 hes using syntax-case egg 16:08:44 Somewhere along the line Chicken compiled the syntactic-closures egg on offby1's machine. 16:11:02 besiria` [n=user@ppp083212086002.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 16:11:16 offby1: run 'chicken-setup -d syntax-case srfi-27 sqlite3 irc foof-loop') 16:11:58 (without the paren and the quote, obviously. that will install all the required eggs, from the looks of it. 16:12:07 riastradh: hm. 16:12:29 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212086002.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:12:47 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-60.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:13:19 elf: oho 16:13:58 elf: I probably would have figured out that I can glom all the egg names onto one command line. But what's irksome is that I need to install _one_ pile of eggs to get incubot compiled; and then another to allow it to run. 16:14:11 there ought to be a command in the makefile, by golly! 16:14:15 *offby1* brandishes his cane 16:14:36 erm, thats all the references to eggs that i found in the source. 16:14:52 so running that should take care of everything. 16:15:06 you'd think. 16:15:22 needs srfi-95 at runtime 16:15:26 dunno why 16:15:52 riastradh: foof-loop requires synclosures 16:16:17 oh, i totally missed that line. 16:16:19 I guess that means Riastradh didn't make the egg 16:16:25 whats srfi-26 ? 16:16:28 dunno 16:16:49 oh, cut/cute 16:16:54 oh yeah 16:17:11 I started using that everywhere once I started doing the Project Euler problems. 16:17:38 Never had the need for it before that; then I used it lots 16:17:42 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:18:27 i wish there was a treewalking cut/cute. 16:18:51 i always end up needing it for something like (proc (car <>)) , which of course doesnt work. 16:25:38 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.26.50] has joined #scheme 16:25:40 yhara [n=yhara@207.13.14.193] has joined #scheme 16:25:46 ayup 16:26:01 wonder if arc's square-brackets do that 16:26:37 arc's square brackets can travel through time. 16:26:38 -!- yhara [n=yhara@207.13.14.193] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:42 they are a whole new paradigm. 16:26:44 *elf* yawns. 16:26:45 klutometis: I'm seeing incubot time out trying to connect to my local ircd, whereas rudybot has no trouble. Interested in details? 16:27:18 (offby1: im interested in why.) 16:28:59 elf: are you saying you'd like me to whine about incubot not working to _you_? 16:29:03 I'd be happy to :) 16:29:24 however I don't know the _why_; that's why I'm nagging Mr Klu To Metrics 16:29:24 yes, im curious whats not working. 16:30:48 all I know is: he emits USER, PASS, and NICK as soon as he connects, whereas for reasons that are lost in the mists of time, I chose to have rudybot wait until he gets a NOTICE message from the server before emitting NICK and USER 16:31:09 on the other hand, the bot clearly works, as evidenced by its presence here 16:31:11 incubot: right? 16:31:11 offby1: Some servers refuse connection to clients that do that 16:31:13 but it's good testing silly things to work right 16:31:17 It depends on the server 16:31:32 sjamaan: same server on my local box, though, as far as I can tell, as here on freenode: dancer-ircd 16:31:40 same configuration? 16:31:41 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 16:31:47 well, probably not, no. 16:31:49 (this isnt an incubot issue so much as an irc egg issue) 16:31:52 sure 16:31:55 *offby1* sniffs 16:32:00 *my* bot works on *both* 16:32:06 hehe 16:32:06 *offby1* nods smugly 16:32:10 *elf* laughs. 16:32:23 *elf* points to the documentation for the irc egg, regarding its state of completion. 16:32:34 gimme the exec summary 16:32:41 I hate to say it, but the irc egg is pathetic 16:32:42 it aint complete. 16:32:43 "this is a piece of junk; use it at your own risk" 16:32:49 more or less, yes. 16:33:03 it _almost_ never occurred to me to use a ready-made library to do the IRC stuff 16:33:06 it was a partial implementation written in an afternoon and ignored ever since. 16:33:07 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:33:09 haw 16:33:12 there ya go, then 16:33:26 *elf* should really write up an irc protocol lib for chicken. sigh. 16:33:28 as opposed to my code, which as you know I've been working on since 1978 when NASA commissioned it 16:33:43 it controls the space shuttle! 16:33:48 NASA really know their stuff! 16:33:52 well, it controlled the Challenger ... 16:33:54 *elf* controls the vertical. 16:33:56 heh :) 16:33:59 *elf* controls the horizontal, too. 16:34:12 mmm, crispy fried McAuliffes. 16:34:16 hey now. 16:34:23 I restrained myself a _little_ 16:34:25 *elf* banishes himself into the realm of poor taste. 16:34:28 yeah 16:34:33 apologies. 16:35:21 (it wouldnt have been in truly poor taste unless someone made a pun about dead ringers, but ...) 16:36:11 *elf* whacks himself in the head. 16:36:28 oo 16:36:32 self-whacking! 16:36:38 it was well-deserved. 16:38:29 man, keeping a copy of the chicken repo on a usb drive plugged into a hub which contains all i/o devices for the machine ... 16:38:41 connected into a single usb 1.0 socket... 16:38:48 takes a long bloody time to synch. 16:39:41 got via git-svn? 16:39:48 hm? 16:40:04 no, why would i use git-anything ? 16:40:10 just 'svn up' 16:40:44 oh, just terminology: you said "copy of the repository", which to me means "all the history". If I do "svn up", though, I'd merely say I have a "working copy" 16:41:35 i keep all the history. 16:41:55 er? 16:41:58 how? 16:43:58 hm, maybe i dont. i know that i scripted it to grab each rev piecemeal initially, and to save history locally. 16:44:06 but i dont know how, and the docs seem to indicate that im wrong. 16:44:08 vasa [n=vasa@mm-77-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 16:44:31 sounds hackulous 16:44:53 git svn does that for you, but of course it requires git, with which some people may not be comfortable. 16:44:58 i hate git. 16:45:20 *offby1* notes that incubot spawns a thread that says "PING" every 30 seconds, wheres rudybot merely responds "PONG" when the server says "PING" 16:45:33 s/wheres/whereas/ 16:47:16 -!- certainty|work is now known as certainty 16:49:42 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 16:51:45 oh man, i feel naughty 16:51:53 i cracked one wireless network 16:54:11 prestoo [n=presto10@cs180038.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 16:54:31 duncanm: I just added a comment to the duncanm-specific bit of rudybot 16:55:25 offby1: thank you 16:56:04 wait, I didn't tell you what it says! 16:58:29 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 16:58:30 Wow, all the cool kids have bots. 17:00:22 ayup 17:00:24 where's yours? 17:00:32 oh, I forgot: you're SQUARE 17:00:33 *offby1* laughs cruelly 17:00:39 it's a rite of passage. 17:00:41 *Daemmerung* cries, runs from playground 17:00:48 most nerds write their bot when they're about 14. I was a little overdue. 17:00:49 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:02 A *little*, he says 17:01:54 well. 17:01:57 what's a couple of decades? 17:02:29 In the grand _scheme_ of things? 17:02:43 Sir, that was un-called-for. 17:03:27 *offby1* slaps sjamaan upside the haid 17:03:57 heh 17:20:51 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.150.23] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:25:39 offby1: you're right; i get conflicting performance with certain ircds 17:25:47 it just happened to work with unreal and freenode 17:25:55 but i've had to kludge in the past 17:27:07 well, I've only ever tested _my_ bot on two: dancer in its default-outta-the-box setup, and dancer on freenode. 17:27:27 *offby1* notes once again, now that klutometis is back, that incubot spawns a thread that says "PING" every 30 seconds, wheres rudybot merely responds "PONG" when the server says "PING" 17:27:42 a previous version of rudybot used threads everywhere. 17:27:44 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:27:45 made my head hurt. 17:27:52 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 17:27:53 now ain't no threads a-tall 17:27:55 exactly; that's a hack because chicken's port times out after 60 seconds 17:28:01 what?! 17:28:01 there should be a way to fix that 17:28:04 you can't control that? 17:28:20 that deserves a comment in the code, at least 17:28:39 -!- prestoo [n=presto10@cs180038.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:28:58 hmm: looks like my expletives didn't make it into git 17:29:05 trust me: i had some good cussing over that one 17:29:18 would have been less stress to ask in #chicken or #scheme, i'm sure 17:30:31 heck, you've only been hacking on this a couple weeks, if git is to be believed 17:30:36 not bad for such a short time 17:31:15 it was really a four day job; i had 96 hours to kill while the database compiled 17:32:00 (give or take) 17:32:12 what is this database of which you speak? 17:32:45 i compiled four years of scheme conversations, and indexed every discourse unit by speech tokens 17:32:59 holy crap! 17:33:06 no wonder the output is so realistic 17:33:21 there are roughly c. one million discourse units; and hundreds of thousands of tokens 17:33:35 so when I say "fnord", it looks for previous sentences that include "fnord", and returns one at random? 17:33:41 sqlite manages to hold up though 17:33:51 not quite: there's a logarithmic bias in the selection 17:33:57 well, ok 17:33:59 for some value of "random" 17:34:02 but that's the gist? 17:34:28 it extracts a list of interesting words; calculates frequencies; and picks less frequent words most of the time 17:34:31 yeah that's the gist 17:34:42 incubot: Lillehammer 17:34:56 incubot: where'd I leave my keys?! 17:34:59 Too bad sarahbot isn't here. You could leave nome a message. 17:35:08 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:18 incubot: Moose bites can be very nasty. 17:35:20 moose bites can be veri nasti 17:36:24 my sister was bit by a moose once. 17:36:36 No realli! 17:36:44 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 17:37:05 I'd have typed that but I was busy looking for Ø 17:37:21 M-x ucs-insert requires that you know the first few letters of the character's Unicode name 17:37:29 Maybe the consolas slashed zero? 17:37:31 *elf* sacks all of you. 17:37:40 *offby1* staples elf's knees togehter 17:37:42 together 17:38:04 ucs-insert? I had no idea. Sweet. 17:38:47 emacs: escape-meta-alt common-sense ? 17:39:40 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 17:40:20 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:14 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-61-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:43:05 Daemmerung: I just use C-x 8 for all my non-ASCII needs 17:44:34 Daemmerung: had a blast playing remus/costello/ted to your romulus/abott/bill; would do again; A++ 17:45:40 ? 17:45:48 who was Punch, and who was Judy? 17:45:57 Dude. We have totally been lied to by our album covers. 17:45:58 who was Alvy, and who was Annie? 17:46:01 Nick/Nora 17:46:02 etc. 17:46:34 Daemmerung: I dunno. I hear that John Lennon's schlong as seen on the cover of "Two Virgins" really was as small as it appeared 17:46:57 DO NOT WANT 17:48:31 What about that guy's ear on `In the Court of the Crimson King'? 17:48:59 very red indeed 17:49:32 I'm not talking about red (actually, it was pretty blue, too); I'm talking about *big*. 17:49:47 people still listen to that? 17:50:41 klutometis: as you probably know, rudybot's only attempt at "natural language processing" (har) is his ineffably-complex "quote" command. 17:50:42 viz: 17:50:43 rudybot: quote 17:50:44 offby1: Let's suppose that we do, in fact, have some data that manages to be so universal that it works across major software packages. 17:50:52 took months of research to code that up, I'll tell ya 17:51:18 whence are you pulling the quotes? 17:51:24 mostly from #emacs 17:51:34 and within #emacs, mostly from one guy named jordanb :) 17:51:39 *Daemmerung* is still playing with iso-transl 17:51:53 by an amazing coincidence, this same jordanb is also the primary client of the "quote" command :-| 17:52:31 hmm; i guess he had a self-cannibalizing wit 17:52:41 there's another word that comes to mind 17:54:08 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-59-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:00:43 as long as he cleans up afterwards. 18:04:02 ayup, that's the word 18:09:28 Traveler1 [n=traveler@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has joined #scheme 18:09:44 hello 18:11:05 -!- Traveler1 [n=traveler@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:14:03 freerfoid [n=ben@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has joined #scheme 18:14:56 best scheme compiler? 18:15:12 T. 18:15:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@126-242-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:17 Heh. 18:16:29 NIL 18:16:48 *elf* has a tron morning. 18:16:50 freerfoid: Chicken, Gambit, and PLT would be good options for compilers. 18:16:51 Microsoft Visual Scheme 2012 with Objects and Crunch-berries 18:17:11 stalin is the best compiler. 18:17:22 compiler from scheme to what, is an important question. 18:17:59 C or machine code 18:18:22 oke, so no java compilers, no specialised bytecode compilers, etc. 18:18:31 no interpreter-only schemes... 18:18:53 No jitters. 18:19:01 Somthing that has aninterpreter as well would be nice. 18:19:26 ding. your search is now complete. you have successfully narrowed to merely 91% of the available implementations. list them? (Y/N) 18:19:34 haah 18:19:37 Gambit, Chicken, Chez. 18:19:50 bigloo 18:19:56 what is the difference between chicken and gambit/bigloo 18:19:57 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:01 *elf* points freerfoid to www.schemers.org 18:20:04 I've looked at bigloo some 18:20:07 theres a list of implementations there. 18:20:18 find whichever one youre comfortable with. thats the best measure. :) 18:20:36 There's so many though.... 18:20:47 ... so? 18:21:13 You'd have to try them all to know what you like. 18:21:24 ... so? 18:21:35 ... so? 18:21:49 You've received a short list here. Read about each of them. 18:22:01 fair enough 18:22:01 you are assuming that you do not have the ability to figure out what you enjoy. 18:22:11 sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:41 once you recognise certain things that you like/dont like/need/despise/whatever, going through the list is a lot faster. 18:23:20 some of the implementations are not currently active, some are for specialised hardware, some are in java, some in c, some bootstrap themselves, some have ffis, some dont, some turn into giant squids and eat your eyeballs, but we dont talk about that. 18:23:53 theres a lovely faq page on schemers.org that goes over some of the common things people look for in an implementation, and how to distinguish between them. 18:23:58 eyeballs are yummy 18:24:02 ... 18:24:05 Or so I've heard 18:25:12 *elf* hides the Tentacles of Sjamaan (TM) under a blanket. 18:25:28 *sjamaan* glances around nervously 18:25:39 *Daemmerung* loosens his collar with an index finger 18:25:53 I thought that was rudybot's job? 18:26:30 I'm filling in for Rudy this morning. 18:26:40 ic 18:27:46 *leppie* defeats dynamic-wind finally! 18:28:06 leppie has slain the dynamic-wind. i have never before seen such valour. 18:28:10 leppie shot the food. 18:28:16 (what are you doing, leppie?) 18:29:03 Is there anything like slime for scheme? 18:29:34 There is backend support for at least one Scheme in SLIME 18:29:43 slime? 18:29:47 Or rather, available for SLIME 18:30:17 elf, trying to work out the R6RS semantics with dynamic-wind in the presence of continuations 18:31:00 leppie: how did the semantics for d-w change in r6? 18:31:29 that i cant tell you 18:31:45 maybe they didnt change 18:32:49 ... 18:33:13 what is difference about r6 dynamic-wind in the presence of continuations from r5? 18:33:36 wow, that was terrible english. apologies. 18:34:11 rudybot no longer loosens his collar, alas. 18:34:20 that feature was excised in The Great Excising 18:34:41 followed by the Great Fastening? 18:34:43 freerfoid: Riastradh wrote a slime48 for scheme48. 18:36:03 yeah I just looked at the slime48 website. It looks pretty dead. 18:38:31 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:39:45 ventonegro [i=alex@189-95-168-186.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #scheme 18:40:52 what exactly does slime do? 18:41:13 (and why are people so obsessed with it? it seems like every third day someone asks something about slime support.) 18:41:37 It is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs 18:41:42 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/ 18:41:42 well, roughly: it's a nice interface between emacs and an inferior lisp, gives you something like intellisense, quick links to docs, etc 18:41:57 elf: ever write elisp? 18:42:01 elf, if you are curious but don't feel like trying it for yourself, there are a few SLIME movies out 18:42:02 axelars [n=xzt@78.183.196.20] has joined #scheme 18:42:06 screencasts of people using it 18:42:08 it's quite pleasant (the editor interaction; not the language itself) 18:42:24 SLIME aims to bring that pleasantness to CL 18:42:31 hey lift function is known as higher order function ? 18:42:42 ? 18:42:45 map,foldr etc. 18:42:56 I've heard of "higher order functions". I've never heard of "lift function". 18:43:00 map foldr is lift function 18:43:04 hmm 18:43:08 yes, map, foldr etc are indeed known as "higher order functions" 18:43:24 intellisense? 18:43:26 http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_order_function 18:43:35 elf: oh please don't make me define intellisense again. 18:43:38 offby1: ive never touched elisp voluntarily. i use vi, remember. 18:43:48 elf: http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellisense 18:44:08 elf: you expect me to remember something you said, like, five minutes ago?! 18:44:29 i see. 18:44:38 my teacher said generalise lift function 18:45:06 intellisense is ... whats it called. that annoying thing that people think is so great about eclipse, with the highlighted nonsense and bubbles popping up and general obnoxiousness. 18:45:22 anyway 18:45:23 well, completion is indeed nice. 18:45:24 in general 18:45:32 *elf* can bench 250 lbs. 18:45:32 elf: I hate that shit 18:45:35 never used eclipse so I don't know how nicely they do it 18:45:45 *elf* is in the heavy lambda lifting division. 18:45:47 Sometimes I have to write code in Zend Studio, which is some kind of Eclipse derivative 18:45:50 I used to object to syntax coloring, too, at one point. 18:45:52 It annoys me to no end 18:45:54 *offby1* slaps forehead 18:45:57 now I can't live without it 18:46:05 However, real contextual completion *is* a good thing 18:46:05 i generally object to syntax colouring. 18:46:18 i dont object to highlighting paren matches, though. 18:46:28 As long as the user can ask for it, and it is not obnoxiously presented to him 18:46:43 (think shell tab completion) 18:46:49 i used to, but dont anymore, as its a pain in the arse to keep track in ones head of the matching for long procs. 18:46:59 shell tab completion is nice. 18:47:12 its irrelevant to programming though, in my mind. 18:47:28 Suppose you go (let ((blahblah )) (+ blah[TAB] 18:47:36 It would be nice if it were to auto-complete to blahblah 18:47:56 in Emacs, M-/ does a surprisingly good job of that ... considering how dumb it is 18:47:57 mentally, the tab would be a break in my thought flow. 18:48:09 and if i didnt know the name of the var im trying to use, something is wrong. 18:48:18 elf: Is it a break in your thought flow in the shell? 18:48:24 It's not that dumb offby1! 18:48:31 It's not about knowing, it's about not wanting to type it out 18:48:40 but you have to wait and see if it completes correctly. 18:48:52 you have to go into a parse-waiting-for-input, which breaks the flow. 18:49:08 I don't feel like that in the shell 18:49:11 for the shell, its not an issue. 18:49:20 Why is the shell so different? 18:50:01 i have to write function with memoised function by using assoc.Can you give an address to how to do that ? 18:50:07 one generally doesnt use varnames over 8 chars long or so. 18:50:18 (generalisation) 18:50:28 elf: But APIs usually have those 18:50:31 (not counting namespace prefixes etc) 18:50:35 If you're using libraries, it's useful 18:51:11 with-output-to-string, dynamic-wind, ... 18:51:13 sctb: it just looks for matches in various buffers. It neither knows nor cares what programming language, if any, your buffer is in 18:51:26 call-with-cthulhu 18:51:42 offby1: true, it also remembers completions, and uses context to try and match more intelligently 18:51:53 its the waiting to see if it can complete the word, which branches into 'could complete' , which branches to 'completed correctly' or 'completed incorrectly' on one side, and on the others goes to 'handle ui for finding correct completion' 18:51:55 sctb: I didn't know that. 18:51:59 elf, you may write cryptic and obscure programs, but I give many variables names that exceed eight characters. 18:52:04 offby1: but like you said, it works surprisingly well 18:52:15 I never lie, and I'm always right. 18:52:20 with-output-to is a common prefix for a large number of procs. 18:52:33 riastradh: i said generalised. i meant to say localised. 18:52:45 i like how you say varnames instead of variable names, procs instead of procedures 18:52:50 you're the real deal 18:52:56 elf: So? Proper completion would complete upto the dash after 'output-to-' 18:52:56 meaning that at least i rarely if ever have to name local vars more than a small number of chars. 18:53:03 Then you'd only have to type the remainder 18:53:08 fight, fight 18:53:13 right, but then i have to wait for it to jump over there. 18:53:25 and process how far it completed to. 18:53:41 what happens if theres a procedure 'with-output-toenails' 18:53:49 It would stop at to 18:53:53 output-to 18:54:05 Since that's the longest unique prefix 18:54:22 I'm missing some context, because I didn't bother to read the preceding conversation. Are you arguing against name completion, elf? 18:54:23 youll be missing the dash, which means that youd either be typing ahead automatically and have to go back once you realise, or you'd have to stop and process that it looks different immediately. 18:54:35 elf: sorry, i dont know, i was referring to my context 18:55:18 lambda-monkey [i=gaimuser@gateway/tor/x-284c7e0c21a22374] has joined #scheme 18:55:24 riastradh: all i said was that i dont see where name completion is relevant to programming. 18:55:54 You are welcome to remain in the dark, then, elf, while the rest of us exploit the fruits of name completion. 18:56:07 .oO("exploit the fruits"?) 18:56:10 that's not very nice! 18:56:14 they have a hard enough time as it is 18:56:15 to me, it seems like the mental stop-and-go of checking the completion all the time far outweighs the supposed benefit of not typing a few extra chars. 18:56:16 Not to mention pseudo-structural editing, which I hold in higher regard than name completion 18:56:18 i would be a very slow coder without name completion 18:56:19 Hmm. `Enjoy' would have been a better word. 18:56:30 yes. 18:56:58 I only have 16k of memory to run in... what would the smallest implementations of scheme be? 18:57:15 elf, then don't use name completion and don't worry about it. 18:57:19 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:57:30 riastradh: i wasnt. 18:57:39 Why is anyone arguing? 18:57:50 i wasnt aware that we were arguing, either. 18:58:08 i hadnt heard of this particular practise and was trying to explain why it was weird to me. 18:58:27 SLIME started it all. 18:58:28 and why its fundamentally different from tab completion in the shell. 18:59:07 (`Practise' is a verb.) 19:00:50 Note: The analogy of the English language requires that the 19:00:50 noun and verb which are pronounced alike should agree 19:00:50 in spelling. Thus we have notice (n. & v.), noticed, 19:00:50 noticing, noticer; poultice (n. & v.); apprentice (n. & 19:00:50 v.); office (n. & v.), officer (n.); lattice (n.), 19:00:53 latticed (a.); benefice (n.), beneficed (a.), etc. Cf. 19:00:55 sacrifice (?; n. & v.), surmise (?; n. & v.), promise 19:02:16 (Please don't paste multiple lines into the channel like that.) 19:02:34 sorry, didnt know that it was going to wrap like that. 19:03:17 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:04:23 (let ((a aardvark)) <-- name completion yay 19:04:49 nicw 19:06:07 the closest thing i use to name completion regarding programming is that my start page for lynx has direct pointers to various places on call-with-current-continuation.org, cause i got sick of typing it so bloody often. 19:07:31 Are you very fast at typing? 19:09:34 *elf* shrugs. i type reasonably. 19:10:55 BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.212.71.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 19:11:08 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 19:11:08 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 19:11:20 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.212.71.bredband.tre.se] has left #scheme 19:11:26 There is more to name completion than merely saving typing time. It gives feedback on mistakes or forgotten names; the difference between typing C-M-i and looking for `No completions' versus `Sole completion', and looking up an entry in an index or switching to the REPL to retype the name, is immense. 19:12:00 hey 19:12:15 memoize is a standart function in drscheme 19:12:19 thats my whole objection! 19:12:19 like map foldr 19:12:29 it interrupts the flow. 19:12:36 axelars: That's probably not going to suffice for your assignment... 19:13:30 the feedback is external data of multiple potential types that i have to process that has nothing to do with what im thinking about. 19:13:37 elf: I have a feeling you misparsed Riastradh's statement 19:14:13 elf, how else would you expect an answer when you wish to ask the machine whether it knows the name you have just typed? 19:14:54 haha 19:15:01 i dont expect the machine to be giving me feedback about what im typing, when im coding. 19:15:04 where is the paste bot 19:15:07 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 19:15:52 there is a time for name related feedback, and thats after im done with my thought stream, not in the middle of it. 19:16:37 So don't ask for the feedback. 19:16:39 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-16-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:16:44 i dont. 19:17:18 i wasnt trying to make this into a big thing. apologies if people were taking this as some kind of holy war of elf vs the tabcompletionists or something. 19:17:23 i read sicp book.http://paste.org/index.php?id=4272 this is memoized version of fib 19:17:31 it uses (memoize .... 19:17:37 but memoized is not defined 19:18:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:10 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-77-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 19:18:52 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:03 ejs [n=eugen@94.178.17.182] has joined #scheme 19:20:09 axelars: Go ahead and define it yourself, like you were instructed, using ASSOC 19:20:09 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:16 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:32 axelars, did you read the rest of that *sentence* in Exercise 3.27? 19:21:18 yes 19:21:51 So, where do you expect MEMOIZE to be defined? 19:22:10 arent there any smart kids in your class who you can pay to do your homework for you? 19:22:30 Do you expect it to be built-in, or do you expect that you will have to define it as SICP instructs? 19:22:32 *elf* ponders writing an essay entitled 'homework isnt open source' 19:22:37 hehe 19:22:39 Why, when he can pester random people in #scheme for free? 19:23:14 actually i am new in memoize i dont know exactly memoize is,just my teacher said write memoized version of refursive fibonacci procedure,using assoc 19:23:25 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["He rode off into the sunset. . ."] 19:23:30 the creative commons licence, if extended to homework, could be kinda amusing. 19:23:44 ii expect "built-in" 19:24:16 Well, then you are nuts. It has furthermore come to my attention that you have already been expelled once from this channel because you are nuts. 19:24:25 ...expelled more than once. 19:24:41 someone would write a decent paper, maybe even a good paper. other people would cut up the paper, and combine it with other papers or with itself in no particular order. sometimes, like monkeys on typewriters, theyll come up with something good. 19:24:47 Will you leave of your own accord, or will you need assistance? 19:25:11 Riastradh: Don't do that. He will almost cry! 19:26:03 chandler, dont give up to me 19:26:17 i wonna learn something.Sorry for crying 19:26:28 I guess you need help to leave. 19:26:28 i dont ask lots of question 19:26:31 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:26:34 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Riastradh 19:26:42 passengers needing assistance, those with small children, pregnant and nursing mothers, and anyone else who needs a few extra moments can come forward at this time. 19:26:55 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has left #scheme 19:27:13 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-225-78.bos.east.verizon.net] has been kicked from #scheme 19:27:22 we will start general boarding at this time. 19:27:26 pwned 19:27:35 -!- Riastradh has set mode -o Riastradh 19:27:59 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 19:28:01 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o chandler 19:28:03 are the semicolons in the kick message because you were writing it in c? 19:28:13 -!- chandler has set mode +b *!*@78.183.196.20 19:28:15 -!- chandler has set mode -o chandler 19:34:27 exit 19:34:48 -!- freerfoid [n=ben@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has quit ["[BX] They killed Kenny! THOSE BASTARDS!"] 19:35:10 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-68-12.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 19:35:53 freerfoid [n=user@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has joined #scheme 19:40:19 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-61-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:42:28 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:42:42 -!- freerfoid [n=user@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:45:33 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:26 npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has joined #scheme 19:48:04 funcorid [n=user@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has joined #scheme 19:48:44 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:52:34 -!- ventonegro [i=alex@189-95-168-186.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:55:31 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 19:59:44 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:03:25 sctb` [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:26 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:45 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:04:50 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:05:09 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:42 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:10:22 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:46 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 20:15:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94.178.17.182] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:17:56 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 20:19:44 *leppie* deals dynamic-wind and call/cc its final blow! DIE! 20:20:17 writing CPS like code in C# is hard... 20:21:07 try VB 20:21:52 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:22:48 haha 20:24:53 *elf* writes fortran in scheme. 20:25:00 real programmers can write fortran in any language. 20:27:49 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-202-0.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:00 Hello All. 20:31:13 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:43 kib2_ [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:32:02 hi 20:32:12 -!- sctb` [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:21 -!- allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:33:56 heya arcfide. 20:34:12 elf: How is it going? 20:34:21 been better, yourself? 20:34:27 It's going well. 20:35:18 elf: Lot's of coding being done. 20:35:28 woot! 20:35:33 elf: Working on these stinkin' scribblers is frustrating but fun. 20:35:48 elf: I keep adding code to try to make them work, but they just won't listen to me. :- 20:35:57 hm. 20:35:58 Still quite fun. 20:36:22 are you having to start more-or-less from scratch for the control interface for em? 20:36:25 And I finally moved my content to Gopher + CVS and am working on some other little project ideas on the side. 20:36:33 em? 20:36:50 I am doing a port from Bad Python to good Scheme. 20:36:56 Right now the Scheme is not so good. 20:37:06 But it's in the "Just get it to behave correctly" stage. 20:37:41 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-29-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:37:53 right. 20:38:06 I feel a little better though, after understanding some more about the libraries, that they don't handle bluetooth very nicely either. 20:38:20 wait, its using bluetooth for radio control? 20:38:24 Yes. 20:38:35 um. 20:39:21 Right now I am just using sub processes to communicate with the bluetooth device. 20:40:53 At the moment the bluetooth is working, and I can communicate with the bluetooth attachment of the robot, which is kind of a robot in itself, but I can't get to the underlying robot. 20:41:57 why not? 20:42:39 Well, the firmware for the robot apparently isn't installed, so I started to write the code necessary for putting new firmwares into the robot. 20:42:52 -!- kib2_ [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:13 I got that to supposedly "work" the way I thought it should, but the firmware update isn't going as well as I thought it was. 20:43:32 So now I'm trying to figure out why the robot still isn't getting the firmware loaded onto it. 20:45:21 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:12 So it works sort of like a serial port or some tcp port. 20:46:20 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:46:50 w00t 20:46:56 one of my friends just gave me "The Reasoned Schemer" 20:47:13 Congrats 20:47:19 That's a great book 20:47:42 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:47:59 *elf* seasons a schemer and slows down the turning spit. dinner will be ready soon. 20:48:22 *sjamaan* thinks elf should be more reasoned 20:48:42 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:48:57 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:49:00 I'm working at that API level. 20:49:04 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:49:14 The User level API just has an upgrade_firmware() procedure. 20:51:20 r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:31 *elf* ponders the age of reason. 20:51:38 usually around 7. 20:51:47 I'm having a problem finding an error in list-ref even though I can't find it in the source 20:51:50 lisppaste: 20:51:54 lisppaste: url 20:51:54 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 20:53:07 r2q2 pasted "javascript.ss error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69974 20:53:43 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-16-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:42 -!- lambda-monkey [i=gaimuser@gateway/tor/x-284c7e0c21a22374] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:14 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:18 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:48 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:02:14 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:08 schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:11:21 sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:11:34 besiria`` [n=user@ppp083212084218.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 21:15:23 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 21:19:17 -!- Guest16333 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-234-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:19:53 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:23:20 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:47 -!- besiria` [n=user@ppp083212086002.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:37:21 annodomini [n=lambda@c-66-30-138-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:44:09 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:44:45 -!- funcorid [n=user@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:59 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:51:29 r2q2: can you try it with errortrace loaded? And why are you using such an ancient version of javascript.plt? 21:53:07 Riastradh: ping? 21:55:27 (planet x ("dherman" "javascript.plt" 3)) is two years old; I wouldn't expect it to run in 4.0 et seq. Upgrade. 21:56:04 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:56:14 (I assume from your use of #lang scheme that you're running a 4.0-series PLT.) 21:56:59 -!- besiria`` [n=user@ppp083212084218.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [No route to host] 22:01:18 -!- pozic [n=Pozic@unaffiliated/pozic] has quit ["leaving"] 22:02:03 foof: around? 22:07:11 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska213070.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:09:42 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:09:49 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:21:27 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:28:59 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska213070.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:23 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43E3B.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:33:54 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.101] has joined #scheme 22:43:10 prestoo [n=presto10@cs180038.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 22:50:09 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:52:19 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:00:35 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.101] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:05:01 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:11:18 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05540B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13:22 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 23:13:53 eli: hey ho 23:13:59 ping ring zing! 23:16:55 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:23 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 23:28:38 rudybot: seen eli 23:28:38 offby1: eli was seen in/on #scheme one day, six hours ago, saying "Daemmerung: Yes, I had some random question, but I'm fine now...", and then eli was seen doing ACTION: quasiquotes his way to class in/on #scheme one day, six hours ago 23:28:51 teaching class! The nerve. 23:29:56 the noive? 23:31:46 *Daemmerung* nyuk-nyuks 23:34:43 a wise guy 23:36:18 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-54-87.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:40:11 -!- maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:41:21 maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #scheme 23:44:47 bcow [n=null@S01060050fc051c84.lb.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 23:48:21 I wonder how to get a programming job. 23:49:38 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 23:50:38 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:51:07 1) learn to program; 2) apply; 3) Profit!! 23:51:09 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-29-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:52:00 I only have a 2 year degree... 23:52:12 synx: i heard there is an opening at the prestigious firm of Howard, Fine, and Howard 23:52:14 Most places say they are only looking for the "best and the brightest" 23:52:23 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-68-12.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:52:39 Who who and who? x3 23:53:03 oh good grief xD 23:53:44 synx: Well, just so them that you are the best and the brightest. 23:54:03 The last programming job was way over my head. I don't want to repeat that, it was miserable... 23:54:05 Wear christmas lights 23:54:31 if it's over your head, just stand upside down 23:54:44 synx: Hehe, then you should probably learn to swim. 23:54:55 argh.. no john, have coffee before going on the internet.. 23:55:04 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:55:12 I had to program a device using only FTP upload and HTML ASP pages, over wireless. 23:56:13 There wasn't even memory for ASP at all, and the only way to change things was with authenticated HTTP POST. And of course I had to figure out digest authentication. 23:56:26 Because of course python wouldn't think to provide such a thing. 23:57:56 Everything "worked" but with slow response times and sometimes changes would mysteriously fail to be set. Not good for a factory floor. 23:58:16 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 23:58:25 And the boss kept leaning on me saying, "So when do you think you'll be done with this?" 23:59:20 meh, work sucks. More trouble than it's worth.