00:00:02 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:02:50 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056B22.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:02:52 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:05:17 Also how do I type hex in scheme ._. 0xFF doesn't count as a number 00:06:22 r5rs #x 00:06:22 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_234 00:06:23 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6f58dk 00:06:34 thanks! 00:11:08 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:11:10 -!- samth_away [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:19:56 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/  what software is this web documentation created with? I noticed that most scheme related books (like online-SICP and others) are created the same way. 00:20:16 tex2page, I think. 00:25:02 Yes, it's Dorai's tex2page. 00:25:06 Thx. 00:28:34 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:25 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 00:32:32 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:57 eli, is there a way to use #lang (planet ...) ? 00:35:24 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:35:45 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:37:42 jonrafkind: #lang planet ... 00:38:07 is the planet form the same as (planet ...) without the outer parens? 00:38:11 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 00:38:20 #lang planet foobar.ss ("me" "blah.plt" 1 0) ? 00:44:06 jonrafkind: it's the same as the symbolic name, something like #lang planet me/blah or me/blah:1:0/file 00:44:29 oh, I haven't used the new syntax with :1:2/foo 01:02:13 -!- allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:02:24 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 01:02:53 -!- Kinks [n=Kinks@uc288.housing.umanitoba.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:03:09 Kinks [n=Kinks@uc288.housing.umanitoba.ca] has joined #scheme 01:09:38 reified [n=luminal@z248.61-115-64.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:21:05 rudybot_: eval (let ((a 3) (b 4)) `((,a ,b) (,a ,b))) 01:21:06 zbigniew: ; Value: ((3 4) (3 4)) 01:21:14 synx: ^^^ also works 01:22:42 BW^- [i=Miranda@94.191.173.96.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 01:25:03 i'm sad to see mr. norvig do what i technically would call to lie on http://norvig.com/python-lisp.html 01:25:34 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:25:39 a computer science professional of his degree should know bether than "Take a Lisp program, indent it properly, and delete the parens, and you end up with something that looks rather like a Python program." 01:25:49 "Python can be seen as either a practical (better libraries) version of Scheme" 01:27:03 i kind of wonder why he acts like this. 01:27:13 sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:29 BW^-: probably because the CTO of Google crushed his dreams of using Scheme or CL 01:27:35 Because his employer forbids programming in anything but Python, Java and C++? 01:27:39 perhaps he had a chrisis on the subject and committed to mainstreamishness 01:27:48 And really, when the alternatives are Java or C++... 01:27:56 yeah 01:28:00 ehe, well in that light python is good, yes . 01:28:05 but still it's silly ! 01:28:16 it's silly coming from Google 01:28:27 take the first quote, "Take a Lisp program, indent it properly, and delete the parens, and you end up with something that looks rather like a Python program." 01:28:30 that's a policy I would expect from some old guard tech company 01:29:15 (for one thing, there's no such thing as a Lisp program that isn't already indented properly) 01:29:24 Haha 01:29:25 it's like saying, take Mac OS X, install another window manager, plug in an old Matrox graphics card in the puter, and you got Windows 3 ! 01:29:35 (except from rank newbiews) 01:29:53 Windows 3.11 . 01:30:09 i mean, a professional should know that there is more to it than what he expressesd 01:30:24 adamant: why would you expect that from google ? 01:30:27 I think he just likes Python. get over it man 01:30:42 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:30:48 mm. 01:30:51 BW^-: because I expect them to be less stupid than the average tech company 01:31:02 if the syntactical similarity is so great, what's the holdup with providing lambdas that span more than one line? no, they just CAN'T DO IT 01:31:18 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-13-31.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:31:42 adamant: i meant, policy you would expect from old guard .. 01:50:20 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-56-82.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:16 BW^-: a lot of them restricted the number of languages you can use 01:51:21 like Google does 01:51:47 not the really old school ones, but the "new" old ones 01:52:05 ones around since languages started standardizing and such 01:52:12 you mean, old school computer companies are more loyal toward a diversity of programming languages than the old? 01:53:03 really old school ones weren't quite as bothered by it, but that was in the days when people rolled their own language all the time 01:53:08 dum de dum 01:53:32 what's the point of limiting count of used programming languages, makes organization easier to navigate for its developers? 01:54:30 It means in theory every programmer should be able to read the code 01:54:36 duncanm: ? 01:54:37 for the whole organization. 01:54:54 Adamant: yes? 01:54:56 ... because you're dealing with mediocre developers, who can't learn 01:55:10 lots of languages, and are viewed as interchangeable parts 01:55:21 also 01:55:27 (and thus expected to be able to read the whole codebase). 01:55:47 there are real benefits with some level of standardization. tools and such. 01:56:31 And as we all know, alternate languages don't have tools. 01:56:37 :P 01:56:41 if you view all the work doen in an organization as maintenance, 01:57:02 i see the point. 01:57:08 -!- sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 01:58:18 foof: It's kind of sad that I'm stuck using this primitive SLIME thing when I could be using modern tools like Eclipse. 01:58:35 I can't imagine what a difference that would make to my productivity. 01:59:42 foof and chandler: I meant besides that. 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02:31:06 gribozavr: you're confusing me. maybe you should rewrite your expansions in Scheme syntax. 02:31:32 rudybot_: eval (3 + (2 + (1 + 0))) 02:31:32 foof: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: # 0 02:31:39 in SRFI-1: (+ 3 (+ 2 (+ 1 0))) 02:32:05 in R6RS: (+ (+ (+ 0 1) 2) 3) 02:32:59 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 02:33:10 -!- Mr_Awesome_ [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:33:17 foof: "Teaching children to use Windows is like teaching them to castrate themselves - in a world where only one company sells razors." 02:34:40 gribozavr: perhaps fold is fold-right by default? 02:34:46 gribozavr: and fold-left is, well, fold-left? :P 02:35:02 No, SRFI-1 FOLD is a FOLD-LEFT. 02:35:07 no, fold in SRFI-1 is "left" 02:35:13 it is? 02:35:21 that's weird then, SRFI-1 is backwards? 02:35:23 but not the "normal" one 02:35:59 you can also try (fold cons '(1 2 3)) --> (3 2 1) 02:36:08 But right or left is the order (associativity). 02:36:17 but in R6RS that would return an improper list 02:36:18 They should both have the same argument order. 02:36:29 I suspect the R6RS definition is just broken. 02:36:56 I don't know why you'd do a left-fold like R6RS does it. 02:37:10 hmm, it seems to me that R6RS one is the right one 02:38:10 but i don't have an R6RS implementation, i could have misread the definition :/ 02:38:15 No, the R6RS definition is just broken. 02:38:23 How the hell did that happen? 02:38:57 ok, lets look at the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fold_%28higher-order_function%29 02:39:14 foldl there is defined like R6RS one... 02:39:15 Yay, argument through Wikipedia! 02:39:17 One of the most important properties is that if KONS is associative and 02:39:23 I know *just* how to win this argument. 02:39:33 KNIL is the identity, then FOLD-LEFT and FOLD-RIGHT are equivalent. 02:39:48 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:39:52 no, wiki is not an argument for me, just another source of information ;) 02:40:41 At any rate, reversing the order of the accumulator is insane. 02:40:44 bpt [n=bpt@rrcs-70-63-155-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:41:23 *foof* sighs 02:41:46 This never would've happened if they based R6RS on the peer-reviewed SRFI-1. 02:41:51 Oh I forgot about `, neat. Thanks zbigniew 02:42:10 uh, so i'm not misreading r6rs? "... combine is first applied to nil and the respective first elements of the lists in order..." 02:42:12 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:42:19 Anton? Is that you? 02:42:19 http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2007-January/001429.html 02:42:41 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 02:42:55 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:44:44 ... except he got the argument wrong. 02:44:53 *jcowan* unvanishes, perning in a gyre. 02:45:44 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 02:45:52 jcowan: ... widening? 02:46:47 Actually it's the circles that widen, not me. 02:49:28 Another argument is that CONS is the canonical example of the KONS function, which serves as a mnemonic. 02:50:12 ...another argument is ex. 2.38 from SICP ;) 02:51:20 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 02:52:14 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:52:33 -!- travis|away is now known as travisbemann 02:54:44 So CONS = Canonical kONS? 02:54:55 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 02:56:31 Well, if you really wanted to change the order I wouldn't call you insane. 02:56:44 But a different argument order for left/right _is_ insane. 02:57:09 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:59:32 Yes, but if you look at your monitor upside down and squint, it makes things nice and symmetric! 03:00:00 *jcowan* turns his monitor upside down, but remains unenlightened. 03:01:25 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:02:34 I know: let's stand him on his head! 03:02:40 Now it's morrrning ... 03:03:09 If all the bits pour out of his ears, when we stand him upright he'll think R6RS is a good idea. 03:03:37 Who, me? I already thought it was a good idea, though not the best possible idea. 03:03:54 The content of the standard itself, that is. 03:05:42 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 03:06:10 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberry!"] 03:08:06 foof, hmm, is it like Haskell where foldr and foldl pass arguments in the reverse order? 03:08:49 (To be honest I seldom use fold anyway.) 03:09:15 hey Riastradh 03:09:26 Hi. 03:09:31 I'm procrastinating. 03:09:52 Riastradh: i was in the process of working on adding READ-LINE support into the command processor 03:10:07 Riastradh: that is the idea, I think. 03:10:35 chandler, a very clever idea: now everyone has to look it up every time anyone wants to use it, because no one can get the arguments straight. 03:10:56 Riastradh: i started by passing a read-line argument into READ-COMMAND-CAREFULLY, but then I noticed that it just means I need to thread the argument thru a lot of API, like RESTART-COMMAND-PROCESSOR and so on 03:11:07 Riastradh: so, isn't the better solution here to use a fluid? 03:11:09 Clearly the identity foldl f x l = foldr (flip f) x (reverse l) ought to be good enough for anybody! (But which one is which?) 03:11:46 i find the point-free style favored by haskell programmers to be very difficult to understand 03:12:49 Point-free style = obfuscated APL 03:12:58 Only more so 03:13:13 That's why we call it `point-less style' in this camp. 03:14:03 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:05 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 03:15:38 Riastradh: am i not making any sense? 03:18:18 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-4-98.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 03:18:43 la la la 03:19:21 Riastradh: Yes, it's like Haskell. 03:19:45 Haskell is very consistent at making rules that are impossible to remember. 03:20:03 duncanm, well, really, you don't want to use READ-LINE; you want an analogue of READ that allows editing of the input expression. 03:20:15 Like the precedence and layout rules... ugh... 03:20:17 *foof* twitches 03:20:28 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:20:37 That's OK, foof. You can introduce your own precedence rules if you're not satisfied with the ones already supplied! 03:20:49 BTW, who is JRM of the syntax-rules primer? 03:20:57 jcowan: joe marshall 03:20:57 Joe Marshall 03:20:58 Joe Marshall 03:21:04 heh 03:21:05 *foof* wins! 03:21:14 No, foof, duncanm won. 03:21:20 Your IRC client echoed too fast. 03:21:23 haha 03:21:26 *jcowan* blammos duncanm just to maintain the balance 03:21:28 d'oh 03:21:31 (Remember that the IRC protocol is brain-damaged, just like the R6RS.) 03:22:07 In principle, different people (excluding the actual posters) might see different orderings. 03:23:48 Riastradh: i started by adding (let ((i-port (make-string-input-port (read-line i-port))) ... ) to REALLY-READ-COMMAND 03:23:50 duncanm, why are you passing READ-LINE as an argument to RESTART-COMMAND-PROCESSOR &c.? Why not just change read-command.scm so that it calls your READ-LINE rather than the usual Scheme I/O? 03:24:06 I mean: why make READ-LINE a parameter (for the moment)? 03:24:29 Riastradh: i don't want to always turn on the 'smart' readline, in case the i'm in a dumb terminal 03:24:52 Riastradh: i was only gonna do it for scsh, so i was gonna then make the next change in scsh/top.scm, which is where scsh starts the command processor 03:25:10 (well, i'm only looking at the scsh source, because that's what i've been using) 03:25:51 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:25:58 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #scheme 03:26:44 Riastradh: i suppose the less lazy way is to rewrite REALLY-READ-COMMAND, and have it process the input one line at a time, instead of having all the various READ-CHARs and READ-something else 03:27:41 OK, then if you want to simplify the changes, make a user context slot for the line reader. 03:28:02 Riastradh: if i do that, is there anything to export in terms of the module system? 03:28:22 user context slot sounds like what i want 03:28:47 See user.scm. (Also, just peruse the whole command processor; it's not very big.) 03:29:11 Riastradh: yeah, i'm been doing that 03:29:39 Riastradh: i see that user.scm is under a directory named 'unused'? 03:29:57 Unused? 03:30:00 I'm talking about scheme/env/user.scm. 03:30:08 (All the command processor is in scheme/env/.) 03:30:33 Riastradh: that's not in my tree 03:30:42 did that come after scheme48 0.53? 03:30:47 ...oh, right. 03:30:50 Yes, it probably did. 03:30:55 i see the user context stuff in command-levels.scm 03:31:04 command-level.csm 03:31:17 it's probably some reshuffling 03:31:28 i'd love to at least port scsh to s48 0.57 03:31:38 but the 0.53 -> 0.54 jump is pretty substantial 03:32:00 Yes, it is. 03:32:19 0.54 to 0.57 is pretty straightforward in comparison ;-P 03:33:06 I'm working on creating a scsh equivalent for Lua called plwsh 03:33:21 I don't care for popular shoe branding, but if you want to do this, you'll just have to do it. 03:33:48 jcowan: how do you like programming in Lua? 03:34:39 I find it quite appealing, close in spirit to Scheme without macros. 03:35:10 but very small, like the shell I intnend to create. 03:35:36 plwsh is an acronym for "powerful lightweight shell", and also happens to be the Welsh for "plush" (as in the integument of a teddy bear) 03:35:55 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:36:42 jcowan: i was watching some of the talks on Oslo from Microsoft's PDC last week - now that i've learned to program in Scheme, it's funny to see those who can't program in s-expr work so hard to approximate scheme macros 03:36:55 *jcowan* nods. 03:37:04 I haven't looked at Oslo at all. 03:37:13 -!- JohnnyL [n=atomicto@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 03:38:03 jcowan: they somehow believe that mainstream programmers will grok the idea of writing grammars/schemas and come up with custom little languages for their problem domains - it's fun to see them try it, but i can only wish them the best of luck ;-P 03:38:09 There is a top-level (basically a yacc parser that translates the mixed sh and Lua into pure Lua, and then there's a Lua library that processes scsh-style representations of shell actions. 03:38:41 What do these custom LLs translate to? C#? IL? 03:39:07 jcowan: XAML and SQL, from what i can glean from the talks 03:39:24 XAML is their XML language that can be used to write down .NET object graphs 03:40:48 http://www.pluralsight.com/community/blogs/aaron/archive/2008/11/03/introducing-quot-oslo-quot.aspx -- i haven't finished reading this post yet, but it seems like it's the best summary of the motivation for Oslo so far; the MS folks haven't been very successful in selling the *why*, IMHO 03:40:50 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6cx4yc 03:43:18 jcowan: oh, so you have a mini language for writing shell like commands that turn into lua? 03:44:23 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 03:44:42 i took out the bit from commander-s and got a little toy thing that can 'compile' "ls | more" into (run (| (epf (ls)) (epf (more)))) 03:44:51 No, it really is a shell: you can type "ls | wc -l" and that translates into a call on plwsh.run on a data structure representing that. 03:44:54 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:44:58 Exactly like scsh. 03:45:12 Only with two cooperating syntaxes instead of just Scheme + macro extensions. 03:45:46 ah 03:46:00 jcowan: sounds fun 03:46:10 jcowan: do you have a syntax for 'piping' into lambdas? 03:46:34 i don't have a design for that right now, but it's be fun to have something like ls | ,(lambda (each-dir) ...) 03:46:35 does scheme have a pi built in? 03:46:38 apart from (/ (log -1) +i) 03:47:21 cky [n=cky@203-211-93-118.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 03:47:31 (atan 0 -1) 03:47:43 nice 03:48:14 duncanm: Lua's a statement language, so you write "ls | do ... end" where the do-end block reads filenames from standard input. 03:48:22 what does second arg to atan mean? 03:48:54 xz: (atan x y) computes the arctan of y/x correctly even if there is no support for complex numbers. 03:49:02 (except for (atan 0 0) which is undefined) 03:49:06 ah 03:49:20 hmm 03:49:31 jcowan: i can keep asking question, but i probably should learn some Lua first ;-) 03:49:36 That's not quite right, jcowan. 03:49:51 Not suprising. Wherein did I err? 03:50:22 (ATAN x y) returns the unique complex argument of x + i y in the interval (-pi, pi]. 03:51:00 do you mean artangent? 03:51:01 (`Complex argument' refers to the argument of complex numbers, not that the argument itself is a complex number.) 03:51:02 arc 03:51:14 oh 03:51:23 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-b9e5b3e900a55c88] has joined #scheme 03:51:24 It can be calculated in terms of unary ATAN by a collection of cases on the signs of x and y. 03:51:29 the argument is like the angle? 03:51:37 from real axis 03:51:44 Yes. 03:51:51 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atan2 , and ignore me. 03:52:21 In other words, (ATAN x y) = (ANGLE (MAKE-RECTANGULAR x y)). 03:53:14 rudybot eval (atan 0 1) 03:53:19 is there rudybot? 03:53:39 xz: 0 03:53:49 (angle (make-rectangular 0 1)) is not 0 03:54:20 Oops. I got the arguments mixed up. 03:54:28 Riastradh: Except it works even if general complex numbers aren't provided. 03:54:30 (ATAN y x) = (ANGLE (MAKE-RECTANGULAR x y)) 03:54:35 Right, jcowan. 03:54:36 and atan takes the y first? 03:54:47 (Read it as sort of `atan (y/x)'.) 03:55:23 so pi = (angle -1) 03:55:32 that is finally something that looks obvious =) 03:55:57 i didn't know about angle - thansk 03:55:59 Right. But, as jcowan said, ANGLE is not guaranteed to work in systems without complex numbers. 03:56:21 okay 03:56:27 (Such systems are absurd, but exist. In any case, usually ANGLE will be defined in terms of ATAN rather than the other way around.) 03:56:30 systems? 03:56:33 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:56:36 Scheme systems. 03:56:37 can't the implementation itself do it? 03:56:40 oh okay 03:57:36 Chicken, for example, provides only small integers and floats by default; all other types of numbers must be added as an option. 03:57:47 (Absurd, but existent!) 03:58:55 Actually, I think it's a good thing that Chicken is modular in such a fashion. 03:59:09 Small core + extensions. 03:59:09 hmm, what's the history behind guile? i get this impression that most people don't think of it as a particularly good implementation of Scheme 03:59:33 i've been following Andy Wingo's posts on Planet GNOME, he seems to be hacking quite a bit on it 03:59:34 Unfortunately, in the case of numerics it results in very poor generic arithmetic performance. 03:59:35 BAAAAHAHAHAHAH HaHAHAA HA HA HHHHA AH *snort* HA HHA HAHAHA HA HAH HAH HAH HAHAH HAH HAH oh man HAH AH HAAAAA HAAAHHH *cough* *cough* *cough* hah hehhh hehhhhh geez.. *cough* 04:00:05 hey offby1 04:01:00 offby1: ? 04:01:01 The main problem is that the numbers egg is not well integrated into Chicken's core. 04:02:37 ? 04:02:47 why y'all lookin at me like that 04:03:05 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:03:40 We are concerned for your health, offby1. 04:03:57 *jcowan* wishes XChat implemented general dictionary word expansion instead of just nicks and channels. 04:04:13 Was it duncanm's understatement that caused your outburst? o_O 04:04:29 duncanm, the history is that RMS wrote a big flame about Tcl, and someone picked up SCM and hacked it up without really understanding Scheme implementations, and somehow it stuck and from the GNU name affixed to it attracted lots of people who didn't really understand the design and implementation of implementation of Scheme. 04:04:43 foof: yep 04:04:49 jcowan, `M-$'! 04:05:03 jcowan, M-x flyspell-mode RET! 04:05:22 *jcowan* doesn't use altmode-altmode-cokebottle editors, thankyouverymuch. 04:05:56 I bet you also wind your own clocks, Mr Decrepitude! 04:06:07 Wind, no. Reset, yes. 04:06:20 Not only did they not understand the implementation of implementation of Scheme, but they didn't understand the implementation of Scheme! 04:06:32 Well, surely that follows. 04:06:33 (...please disregard the ticking sound that may be playing into this laptop's microphone from the hunk of gears next to it which can't possibly be a clock.) 04:07:02 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:07:39 Riastradh: there was some licensing issues with scheme48 in the late 90s too, wasn't it? 04:08:20 well, despite the fact that it may be poorly executed, guile seems to come with quite a bit of code 04:08:30 hmmm 04:08:34 Yes: the issue was that whoever was considering a foundation for guile never bothered to talk with Jonathan about Scheme48's licence and ruled it out immediately. 04:09:26 it's too bad that the work done on s48 is spread across 3 forks 04:09:38 it'd be nice to get them all into one tree 04:09:39 Whatsoever king may reign, I will edit with 'ex', Sir! 04:09:53 What was wrong with mit-scheme? 04:10:00 (to the air of "The Vicar of Bray") 04:10:10 Guile was intended to be small and embeddable. 04:10:17 ... 04:10:17 foof: yeah, olin seems to be really negative about it (mit-scheme) 04:10:37 does chanson still have time to maintain MIT Scheme? 04:10:37 SCM wasn't small to begin with. Guile is bigger. 04:10:49 And has the worse FFI I've ever seen in a Scheme implementation. 04:10:54 "Intended" is the operative word. 04:10:58 i only learned last week that mzscheme was based on something called libscm (i think?) 04:11:15 In theory Chris prepared a new snapshot the other week. 04:11:26 At least, that's what he told me. I haven't seen him update the web site, though. 04:11:44 But Guile is still very useful for exposing ambiguities in R5RS: if there's more than one way to do something, Guile will do it the opposite way from everything else. 04:12:51 Let's talk in even more vague generalities! It's more fun that way. 04:13:22 Yargh blargle blogglethorpe flurtzelweifer. 04:13:59 minion: chant! 04:13:59 MORE VAGUE 04:14:08 .oO("blogglethorpe"? I know him well) 04:14:49 (Pop quiz: How does one pronounce the trailing `e' in `blogglethorpe'?) 04:14:56 silently. 04:15:28 No! You've been listening to too many Tom Lehrer songs for Sesame Street again. 04:15:41 there's only the one. 04:16:01 Nope. There're several. 04:16:16 In fact you quoted one but alluded to another. 04:17:07 I think I'd better go to bed. 04:21:29 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:54 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:22:09 -!- bweaver_ [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 04:24:27 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:27:55 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 04:28:23 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:31:21 Yes, I think so, too. 04:35:42 You think you should go to bed? 04:39:45 -!- replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:41:36 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:43:17 *foof* thinks johnnowak should go to bed 04:43:27 *johnnowak* kicks foof 04:43:27 *johnnowak* kicks foof 04:43:34 *jcowan* thinks he himself should go to bed, but alas, it is not to be. 04:43:43 i just got up from a nap actually 04:43:45 *jcowan* sits Dorian in the crook of his arm and goes on typing. 04:49:15 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:52:30 You can type holding a baby? 04:54:15 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:55:57 How do you get the modulus in scheme? 04:56:32 *synx* is typing holding a cat. Arm is asleep T_T 04:56:48 synx: modulo 04:56:52 Or remainder. 04:57:17 Hum... and div? 04:58:16 like (inexact->exact (floor (/ a b)) 04:58:27 divide 04:58:55 In Scheme the first thing to try is just spelling out the word normally :) 04:58:59 divide isn't defined. Modulo is. 04:59:05 oops 04:59:07 modulo I mean. 04:59:07 quotient 04:59:14 Ah okies 04:59:16 *foof* needs coffee 04:59:28 quotient/remainder, gotta remember that. 05:01:05 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:02:16 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:02:40 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:04:41 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-192-29.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:14:32 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 05:19:23 npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has joined #scheme 05:20:19 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [] 05:20:31 foof: you there? 05:22:42 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-119-195.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:26:35 yep 05:27:12 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:27:38 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176208002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:58 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176199038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:31:10 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 05:31:29 offby1, what was the name of that Belgian beer that you mentioned sometime last night 05:31:32 ? 05:31:48 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-20-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:32:50 chimay 05:38:59 Right, but as it turns out there are several varieties produced by that particular brewery, and they are all rather startlingly expensive. 05:40:17 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:45:42 bpt_ [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:45:51 -!- bpt [n=bpt@rrcs-70-63-155-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51:43 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-13-31.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:52:25 reified [n=luminal@z248.61-115-64.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:54:19 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 06:04:10 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:05:21 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@nat/redhat-in/x-6b5cdfb9967c5176] has joined #scheme 06:06:26 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-102-24.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:10:00 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@ZQ062141.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:11:10 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-1-249.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 06:14:43 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:16:57 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["brb"] 06:23:47 -!- npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has quit [] 06:27:08 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-102-24.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:29:33 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-20-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:37:13 foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:40:16 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:41:42 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 06:47:07 I thought I could use else in syntax-case 06:47:38 I guess Ill just match _ 06:48:00 That matches anything (including lists). 06:48:37 uh, yea I know. 06:49:05 actually matching "else" should be the same as _ 06:51:06 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 06:51:12 Not in any Scheme matching syntax I've ever seen. 06:52:25 (syntax-case stx () (x #'1)) 06:52:27 will match anything 06:52:30 replace x with else 07:03:40 It's different - that assumes x is not in the literal list, and is not used anywhere else in the pattern. 07:06:04 -!- tessier is now known as semanticman 07:06:12 whatever. its close enough to the same thing 07:06:13 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:06:19 technicalites aside 07:06:41 This is code - technicalities are all that matter! :) 07:07:04 -!- semanticman is now known as tessier 07:08:25 I suppose if you like arguments.. 07:11:02 ...or if you like code that compiles and runs. 07:18:20 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 07:25:19 drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 07:31:51 -!- tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has quit ["Riece/5.0.0 Emacs/22.2 (berkeley-unix)"] 07:32:01 tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has joined #scheme 07:33:49 drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 07:37:50 -!- gribozavr [n=grib@193.138.147.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:12 -!- drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:46:36 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:48:59 -!- drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:51:11 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 07:56:00 -!- drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:04:51 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 08:13:57 elmex [n=elmex@e180066015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 08:14:24 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0553F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:16:10 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:20:26 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:23:00 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 08:23:33 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 08:27:21 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:33:30 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 08:43:45 -!- Kinks [n=Kinks@uc288.housing.umanitoba.ca] has quit [No route to host] 08:49:51 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 09:11:38 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0553F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:52 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0421.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:21:41 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 09:25:48 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 09:29:39 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 09:30:01 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:31:45 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d509b47af6e4f65b] has joined #scheme 09:33:50 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-64-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 09:34:59 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 09:52:57 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:54:08 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 09:56:13 morning 10:21:54 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-b9e5b3e900a55c88] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:24:11 AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #scheme 10:29:40 -!- travisbemann is now known as travis|away 11:03:09 -!- Leonidas` is now known as Leonidas 11:08:23 Bloody daylight savings time! 11:09:41 Much as I like getting that extra hour of sleep back, can we please have it @!#&$!%^& abolished? 11:10:54 daylight savings doesn't give you an extra hour of sleep 11:10:59 it takes one away 11:11:18 then at the end (daylight standard time) you get it back 11:11:39 Yes, I know, Arelius. What I want abolished is the whole switching bogosity. 11:11:47 Agreed 11:11:59 foof` [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 11:12:06 Wide-scale disruption of circadian rhythms ought to be an international felony. 11:12:08 I was just stating how that the extra hour of sleep is not a part of daylight savings 11:12:17 so only more of a reason to get rid of it 11:13:56 *foof`* slips Riastradh's cats vivarin 11:19:50 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit ["leaving"] 11:19:57 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 11:20:03 Ashy [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #scheme 11:24:47 -!- foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:27:31 -!- foof` is now known as foof 11:37:16 benny [n=benny@i577A0FFC.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 11:41:14 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-123.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:41:59 luz [n=davids@201.29.235.134] has joined #scheme 12:02:52 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 12:11:40 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 12:27:29 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:32:01 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@ZQ062141.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 12:36:08 -!- Ashy [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:37:24 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:49:28 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-249-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 12:49:58 -!- mike is now known as Guest47763 12:58:01 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d509b47af6e4f65b] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 13:05:02 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 13:07:31 Riastradh: I thought you never slept anyway, you just wait 13:08:04 hehehe 13:21:46 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 13:24:36 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0421.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:27:46 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:28:35 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:29:14 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 13:34:10 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 13:41:26 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:41:55 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 13:45:23 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 13:47:51 -!- brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has left #scheme 13:48:48 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad45df41f443154e] has joined #scheme 13:50:52 kib2_ [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:55:06 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:55:53 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:57:30 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 14:04:55 -!- reified [n=luminal@z248.61-115-64.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:06:51 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p2084-ipbf1006osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:11:52 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:12:54 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [No route to host] 14:22:31 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:09 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 14:31:09 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p2084-ipbf1006osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:08 notyouravgjoel [n=jmccrack@student312-1.psc.edu] has joined #scheme 14:34:49 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:57 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #scheme 14:37:01 does anyone know how to get/use the sicp compatability package for mit scheme? 14:37:35 viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has joined #scheme 14:37:35 -!- viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has quit [K-lined] 14:38:41 Debolaz [n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has joined #scheme 14:42:29 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:47:44 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 14:49:28 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 14:51:28 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:52:47 Poor little cats. They don't understand DST. 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has quit [] 18:55:19 ventoneg` [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 18:58:50 mejja [n=user@c-6bbae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:00:06 geckosen1tor [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:00:15 -!- geckosen1tor [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:02:11 mib_uq2fm1 [i=c7aca920@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d67fd3a7e7bdb890] has joined #scheme 19:06:07 POSIX threads `work' however they are implemented, which varies widely from system to system. 19:08:22 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:09:03 any bigloo users in here? 19:10:16 -!- ventoneg` is now known as ventonegro 19:11:41 Probably not. 19:12:04 *sjamaan* wonders why that is 19:12:16 (or isn't, rather :P ) 19:13:47 i'm astonished by how effective green threading is in solving the data synchronization issue within the boundaries of single CPU cores 19:14:22 i know the "proof as it looks on paper", but really having all structures processing in parallell and it just works is an amazing feel 19:14:58 sjamaan why arent you surprised ? :) 19:15:12 hm? 19:15:22 is this deeply PLT territory ? 19:15:27 No. 19:15:42 I hope it is no particular `territory', or if anything `neutral territory'. 19:15:55 (or: `Scheme territory') 19:16:15 I hope so too, which is why I'm surprised there are no biglooers here 19:16:36 I claim this territory for the Queen. 19:16:46 Oh noes! 19:16:59 where are the biglooers? 19:17:04 In the loo. 19:17:07 i was just getting my feet wet with the bigloo FFI. i had a question and posted it to the mailing list. since i havent heard back was hoping to try my luck here 19:17:32 mig_uq2fm1: bigloo seems a very nice scheme implementation to me ! 19:18:11 i was amazed to see it give me a 6KB binary for (display "Hello world") 19:18:48 yeah thats super neat. directly being able to call c code is neat too. being able to use gprof, vtune etc for performance tuning is the best part 19:19:06 you have a profiler there? 19:19:10 neat! url? 19:19:16 what's vtune? 19:20:16 well vtune is intels performance analyser 19:20:21 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056140.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:20:30 bigloo has an inbuilt profiler which is available if you build bee 19:20:46 (the emacs dev environment for bigloo) 19:20:50 bpt__ [n=bpt@rrcs-70-63-155-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:22:52 k 19:23:15 how does bigloo do runtime library linking? 19:23:27 Gambit, for instance, links in the entire 3MB runtime library to any binary. 19:23:38 Thanks God it compresses so well using the 7zip algorithm. :) 19:23:43 => 588KB. 19:23:49 cant u just use strip? 19:24:17 oh by the way, Marc just made a beta Tree Shaker for Gambit too, so required binary size is decreasing. 19:24:38 leppie: strip? 19:25:01 does gambit not compile to C? 19:25:04 bw - bigloo compiles down to c 19:25:29 leppie,mib_uq2fm1: i know. and, yes, gambit compiles to C too. 19:25:59 and, there's a gamba.lib or something that contains the runtime library, which consists of mixed C and Scheme=>C code. 19:26:05 you need to link it in to any binary. 19:26:22 how do a make a binary on gambit? 19:26:39 leppie: (compile-file "helloworld.scm") 19:26:47 and then i think it is (link "helloworld") 19:26:52 ok 19:27:12 but, you very seldom actually need to produce final executable binaries, because the dynamic load function of compiled object files is so good. 19:27:34 for instance, in our module system, we just (use lib/http-server), and it loads the http server and all of its dependencies in compiled format automatically 19:27:45 and compiles whatever object files where there's newer source files 19:28:32 though for an executable file to distribute to end-user machines, sure a binary executable standalone is good. 19:28:33 BW^-: that gives unbound variable: compile-file 19:28:45 leppie: are you running gsc ? 19:28:51 erm, no! 19:28:54 damn 19:29:03 you only ends up with 3MB programs if you link statically with the Gambit runtime, of course 19:29:08 Gambit comes in two variants, gsi and gsc. gsi is the interpreter variant, gsc has the scheme=>C stuff too 19:29:18 yes that's right. 19:29:23 funny i thought i had it installed 19:29:29 and, as i said, there's a way around the 3MB thing. 19:29:49 and that is, use Marc's tree parser, and then compile your app's C code together with the runtime library's C code 19:30:14 there's currently one terrible limit in doing that, though, and that is that you're not allowed to use (eval) in your app, that disables the tree shaking. 19:30:20 however, 588KB for runtime is not too much. 19:31:01 3MB is not much 19:31:04 try SBCL 19:31:15 how much is SBCL? 19:31:34 oh, by the way, our XML parsing (both serialization and deserialization, that is, sxml->xml and xml->sxml) take 85KB in total compressed :) 19:31:37 in binary form 19:31:38 it's free :-) 19:31:42 that's like nothing. 19:31:49 how big i mean? 19:32:14 rotty` [n=user@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 19:32:32 -!- rotty` [n=user@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has left #scheme 19:32:44 I don't remember exactly the size of the image I ended with, but it was > 10MB 19:32:51 oh 19:33:10 to summarize a bit, i think 580KB is good too. 19:33:36 3 mb is good :) 19:33:42 yes. 19:33:46 (too) 19:34:00 k 19:34:24 if only more implementations shipped with snazzy debuggers and profilers 19:34:28 life would be awesome 19:34:39 mib: gambit does debugger. 19:34:42 (drscheme is awesome in this regard) 19:34:46 profiler, i would say, umm, *maybe*.- 19:34:51 Debugger? DrScheme has a debugger now? 19:34:55 mib_uq2fm1: Gambit has a statistical profiler 19:35:21 right. anyone could implement a YourKit-alike one too. 19:35:30 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 19:35:32 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #scheme 19:35:33 though i think it requires the code to run interpreted. not sure though. 19:35:36 riastradh - yes it has a pretty decent debugger where you can step through code 19:35:54 Can you inspect objects on the stack, mib_uq2fm1? A stepper is very different from a stack inspector, and often much less useful. 19:35:55 and inspect variable values by hovering your mouse over them 19:36:10 yes you can inspect the stack :) 19:36:15 And can you do this post-mortem? 19:36:32 what do you mean post mortem ? 19:36:55 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-123.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:36:55 Can the signalling of an error drop you into the debugger, whence you can inspect the stack as it was whwen the error was signalled? 19:37:12 i havent tried that 19:37:31 So you have to step through your whole program for this to work, then? 19:37:58 you have things similar to c debuggers - like run till here 19:38:46 *Riastradh* hiccups. 19:38:48 will try what happens on signalling an error tonight 19:39:03 (Sorry, I find it truly sad that the point of comparison here is `C debuggers'.) 19:39:27 :) 19:39:55 are there any sophisticated profilers for any Scheme environment? 19:40:05 something you can log into and see different stats of what's happening 19:40:31 bigloo has both memory and execution profilers 19:40:52 anything like YourKit Profiler for Java 19:41:02 i have a real ugly one :) 19:41:15 leppie: for which scheme? 19:41:24 for IronScheme 19:41:33 k 19:42:28 well for any .net app 19:42:37 k 19:42:56 bw - if your code is compiling down to C - cant you use any C profiler ? 19:43:39 mib: yes that is correct. 19:43:45 in particular when compiling with debugging symbols. 19:44:11 somehow you can get your object/executable files either contain Scheme or C/C++ code for debugging symbolos. 19:44:23 so you can use the GooglePerfTools profiler for instance, yes. 19:44:46 even though perhaps that one would be kind of meaningless to use, as it analyzes mallocs for you 19:44:51 and gambit has an internal memory system. 19:45:00 could be useful for FFI interfacing. 19:45:05 what more nice C/C++ profilers are there? 19:45:52 *leppie* wonders where gambit installed itself... 19:46:18 bw - vtune is really good but only works on intel processors 19:46:25 leppie: /usr/local/Gambit/current/bin/gsc 19:46:31 a free version is available for non commercial use 19:46:43 url? 19:47:01 where are the bigloo guys hiding? is there any irc channel or anythin? 19:47:12 i mean, it's a highly developed scheme 19:47:24 It's a highly developed C++ in parentheses. 19:47:26 http://www.intel.com/cd/software/products/asmo-na/eng/239145.htm 19:47:40 it appears its all one guy - manuel serrano :) 19:49:07 does biglo generate c++ code ??? 19:49:40 dont know 19:50:14 ive only recently started using it after writing a game in drscheme and wanting something where i can do some kind fo performance analysis 19:50:23 nice! 19:50:56 am working on getting some GL and Glfw bindings going for bigloo 19:51:00 How would I test a value for equivalence to +nan.0 on PLT Scheme? 19:51:30 nan? 19:51:39 The number that is not a number. 19:51:55 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:52:06 (and (nan? x)(nan? y)) 19:55:17 The answer is -- wait for it -- (eqv? x +nan.0). 19:55:21 *Daemmerung* facepalms 19:55:29 no 19:55:46 that is incorrect 19:56:02 Really? Why? 19:56:08 rudybot_: eval (list (= +nan.0 +nan.0) (eqv? +nan.0 +nan.0)) 19:56:08 Riastradh: ; Value: (#f #t) 19:56:12 well = might work 19:56:20 No, leppie, = will absolutely yield false. 19:56:26 o ok 19:56:29 leppie: I said /on PLT Scheme/. 19:56:30 Everywhere, universally, in any IEEE 754 implementation. 19:57:08 *Daemmerung* resolves to RTFM a bit more often 19:57:10 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0421.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:59:04 NAN hell 20:01:07 rudybot_: eval (eqv? +nan.0 -nan.0) 20:01:10 leppie: ; Value: #t 20:04:15 incubot: ping 20:04:18 Ping 20:04:33 incubot: R6RS 20:04:44 incubot: (list (= +nan.0 +nan.0) (eqv? +nan.0 +nan.0)) 20:04:44 (#f #f) 20:04:52 wow, no answer to R6RS 20:05:00 Chicken is funky. 20:05:16 Funky chicken? 20:05:26 *Daemmerung* does it 20:05:58 *sjamaan* joins 20:06:25 incubot: (letrec ((identity (lambda (x) x)) (x (call-with-current-continuation identity)) (y (call-with-current-continuation identity))) (x y)) 20:06:27 Eval 27288 timed out. 20:06:29 Now is the time on #scheme when we dance! 20:07:45 incubot: (make-vector (expt 2 32)) 20:08:08 yay? 20:09:34 That's just mean. 20:10:44 incubot will have his revenge 20:11:01 saccade_ [n=saccade@18.188.69.183] has joined #scheme 20:11:47 incubot: ping 20:11:49 *ping* 20:11:54 Hm. It's still alive. 20:11:58 incubot: (+ 2 3) 20:11:58 5 20:12:04 incubot: (make-vector 10) 20:12:04 #(# # # # # # # # # #) 20:12:12 incubot: (make-vector (expt 2 10)) 20:12:13 #(# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #... 20:12:20 incubot: (make-vector (expt 2 20)) 20:12:21 #(# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #... 20:13:23 incubot: (let loop ((x '())) (loop (cons (make-vector (expt 2 20)) x))) 20:13:25 Eval 27305 timed out. 20:13:31 incubot: (let loop ((x '())) (loop (cons (make-vector (expt 2 25)) x))) 20:13:33 Eval 27306 timed out. 20:13:40 incubot: (let loop ((x '())) (loop (cons (make-vector (expt 2 29)) x))) 20:14:29 killing robots is fun 20:17:40 incubot: (current-directory) 20:17:40 Error: unbound variable: current-directory 20:17:57 incubot: (exit 1) 20:17:57 incubot 20:19:39 incubot: (transcript-on "/etc/passwd") 20:19:39 Error: unbound variable: transcript-on 20:19:46 hee. 20:19:52 incubot: (load "/etc/passwd") 20:19:53 Error: (open-input-file) can not open file - No such file or directory: "/etc/passwd" 20:20:00 incubot: (load "/etc/") 20:20:00 Error: (open-input-file) can not open file - No such file or directory: "/etc/" 20:20:36 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@18.188.69.183] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:20:42 incubot: (rmdir ".") 20:20:43 Error: unbound variable: rmdir 20:21:10 incubot: (use posix) (current-directory) 20:21:10 Error: unbound variable: posix 20:23:06 -!- mib_uq2fm1 [i=c7aca920@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d67fd3a7e7bdb890] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 20:24:10 incubot: (software-version) 20:24:10 linux 20:26:51 incubot: (get-call-chain) 20:26:51 (#(incubot-read.scm: 5 min #f #f) #(incubot-read.scm: 5 substring #f #f) #(incubot-read.scm: 5 print #f #f) #(incubot-read.scm: 7 read #f #f) #(incubot-read.scm: 7 iter #f #f) #(incubot-read.scm: 4 eval #f #f) #( (get-call-chain) ... 20:29:21 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:30:43 incubot: (getenv "LOGNAME") 20:30:44 root 20:30:57 o_O 20:31:12 incubot: (getenv "SHELL") 20:31:12 /bin/bash 20:31:26 incubot: (getenv "SSH_CONNECTION") 20:31:26 #f 20:31:44 incubot: (getenv "PATH") 20:31:44 /home/pcdanenb/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/lib64/ccache:/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin 20:31:45 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:32:14 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:32:42 incubot: (system "echo Caveat emptor.") 20:32:42 32512 20:34:57 choas [n=lars@p5B0DC9D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:16 that must be a pid 20:35:45 does it really execute system calls? 20:36:24 It's spawning a shell. 20:36:28 klutometis: PING dammit 20:36:34 incubot: (getpid) 20:36:34 Error: unbound variable: getpid 20:37:55 incubot: (system "echo 'Hi klutometis' | mail -s howdy root") 20:37:55 32512 20:38:07 heh 20:38:19 I hope that exit status 127 means he's sandboxing it. 20:38:31 incubot: (system "killall csi") 20:38:31 32512 20:38:49 incubot: (system "pkill csi") 20:38:50 32512 20:38:52 incubot: (system "/bin/ls") 20:38:52 32512 20:39:30 Looks safe. 20:39:45 incubot: (current-process-id) 20:39:46 Error: unbound variable: current-process-id 20:39:53 incubot: (system "shutdown -p now") 20:39:54 32512 20:40:22 I wonder why it gives this odd response everytime 20:40:42 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-183.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:40:52 Probably because he's removed the shell that "system" is trying to spawn. 20:40:54 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:41:07 /bin/bash ? 20:41:52 incubot: (import posix) 20:41:52 Error: unbound variable: posix 20:42:00 incubot: import 20:42:03 Is import network aware now? 20:42:07 incubot: (list import) 20:42:07 Error: unbound variable: import 20:44:38 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-183.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:47 incubot: (setenv "SHELL" "/bin/ls") 20:49:47 Error: unbound variable: setenv 20:52:18 incubot: (define incubot) 20:52:19 # 20:52:26 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #scheme 20:52:38 incubot: (on-exit (lambda () (display "#scheme was here") (newline))) 20:52:38 #scheme was here 20:52:40 incubot: incubot 20:52:51 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:52:58 incubot: incubot 20:53:03 incubot: (define incubot 1) 20:53:03 # 20:53:07 incubot: incubot 20:53:18 :( 20:53:24 incubot: (list incubot) 20:53:24 Error: unbound variable: incubot 20:53:29 incubot: (Define incubot 1) 20:53:29 Error: unbound variable: incubot 20:53:33 gr 20:53:38 It appears to be spawning a fresh instance of csi for each response. 20:53:39 incubot: (define incubot 1) 20:53:40 # 20:53:44 incubot: (list incubut) 20:53:44 Error: unbound variable: incubut 20:53:46 argh! 20:53:48 *chandler* gives up 20:53:51 ouch! 20:53:54 incubot: eval (print "hi") 20:53:54 # 20:54:25 incubot: (display "hi") 20:54:26 hi# 20:54:27 incubot: (current-milliseconds) 20:54:27 792 20:54:32 Whoa. Fresh. 20:54:42 incubot: eval (##sys#call-with-cthulhu (lambda () 'aaaagh)) 20:54:42 # 20:55:02 heh 20:55:06 :] 20:55:12 How to abuse a bot :) 20:55:34 lol it makes me think twice about doing one for IronScheme 20:55:41 i'll have no PC left :p 20:56:17 I trust that klutometis has this running on some sort of scrap-metal beater. 20:57:13 If not, it soon will be 20:57:19 incubot: (##sys#halt) 20:57:19 incubot 20:57:51 incubot: (argc+argv) 20:57:51 1 20:58:02 incubot: (values argv) 20:58:03 # 20:58:07 incubot: (require-extension posix)(current-directory) 20:58:07 Error: (load-library) unable to load library 20:58:09 incubot: (argv) 20:58:09 (incubot-read) 20:58:12 incubot: (##sys#fudge 1) 20:58:12 #!eof 20:59:02 incubot: (load-library 'posix) 20:59:02 Error: (load-library) unable to load library 20:59:24 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 21:00:14 incubot: (features) 21:00:14 (srfi-69: srfi-28: extras: ports: data-structures: srfi-8: srfi-6: srfi-2: srfi-0: srfi-10: srfi-9: srfi-55: srfi-61: applyhook: ptables: manyargs: little-endian: x86-64: gnu: linux: unix: chicken: srfi-23: srfi-30: srfi-39: srfi-62: srfi-17: srfi-12:) 21:00:38 Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 21:00:41 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:01:38 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:01:52 incubot: (getenv "LD_LIBRARY_PATH") 21:01:52 #f 21:02:01 incubot: (repository-path) 21:02:02 /usr/local/lib/chicken/3 21:02:56 incubot: (dynamic-load-libraries) 21:02:56 (libchicken.so) 21:07:03 (load-library "/usr/local/lib/chicken/3/posix.so") 21:07:24 incubot: (load-library "/usr/local/lib/chicken/3/posix.so") 21:07:25 incubot: (load-library "/usr/local/lib/chicken/3/posix.so") 21:07:25 Error: (load-library) bad argument type - not a symbol: "/usr/local/lib/chicken/3/posix.so" 21:07:27 Error: (load-library) bad argument type - not a symbol: "/usr/local/lib/chicken/3/posix.so" 21:07:44 incubot: (load-library 'posix) 21:07:44 Error: (load-library) unable to load library 21:07:54 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:08:38 posix is actually embedded in libchicken.so, so that won't work, even if you use "load" instead of "load-library" 21:08:48 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:09:28 (load-library 'posix "/usr/local/lib/chicken/3/libchicken.so") 21:09:37 Dawgmatix [i=c7aca923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d20b66e85141cf02] has joined #scheme 21:09:39 incubot: (load-library 'posix "/usr/local/lib/chicken/3/libchicken.so") 21:09:39 Error: (load-library) unable to load library 21:09:56 were still at this!! 21:10:04 ...beats working. 21:10:12 i was logged in as mib_.... earlier 21:10:36 dawg: how much space do compiled bigloo apps take, in your experience? 21:10:59 ive only compiled a glfw example 21:11:11 ok how much? 21:11:14 i didnt check on size - since i wasnt worrying much about size 21:11:21 will get back to you once i am home 21:11:38 do you work on embedded systems ? 21:11:51 no 21:12:02 -!- Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 21:12:09 was just curious about why you care about executable size 21:12:22 it's for a client app for very wide distribution. 21:12:26 people care about download times. 21:12:35 it's key for first impressions. 21:12:35 ahh i see :) 21:12:49 compare myTorrent vs bittorrent for instance. 21:12:54 or Spotify vs. iTunes 21:12:57 youre using scheme for work ? :D 21:13:08 yes 21:13:10 where is this i would kill to be in your spot 21:13:42 dawg: you're welcome to the boat in some time. 21:13:54 you dont have to answer that. i was just voicing my incredulity 21:18:27 reified [n=luminal@z248.61-115-64.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:23:12 rudybot_: version 21:23:13 hkBst: c73ba6f 21:23:44 rudybot_: eval (version) 21:23:45 hkBst: ; Value: "4.1.1" 21:24:01 incubot: eval (version) 21:24:01 Error: unbound variable: version 21:24:49 minion: smite the other bots, please 21:24:50 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 21:24:53 heh :-) 21:25:14 :D 21:25:32 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-251-185-93.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:41 minion: eval (version) 21:29:42 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 21:30:13 heh. #lisp-specific message there :-) 21:30:17 minion: version? 21:30:17 This is the minion bot, running on a X86 (Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz) and running under SBCL 1.0.1. 21:31:37 someone switch off the power guzzling pentium D 21:33:04 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-192-29.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:01 -!- Dawgmatix [i=c7aca923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d20b66e85141cf02] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:37:07 AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #scheme 21:46:35 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:50:54 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DC9D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:51:42 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 21:52:51 daskeyboard.com is good for coding 21:52:52 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.237.181] has joined #scheme 21:52:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:54:06 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:58:17 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:08:56 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:09:41 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 22:12:22 -!- npe_ [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [] 22:15:10 incubot: (chicken-version) 22:15:10 3.4.0 22:24:22 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:27:18 annodomini [n=lambda@nat-204-170.Dartmouth.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:28:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-6bbae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:31:00 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:31:21 -!- pitui [n=pitui@doh.research.att.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:35 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:33:19 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:48:21 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:02 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:53:06 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:53:29 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:53:42 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:47 -!- kib2_ [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 23:03:56 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:08:10 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:24 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:28 -!- bpt__ [n=bpt@rrcs-70-63-155-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:46 Daemmerung: i don't have any of the shared libraries an the chroot 23:19:52 s/an/in/ 23:20:07 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:20:20 but the thing's castrated without them, it's true; maybe i'll put them in after all 23:21:46 that seems... scary 23:23:15 Scary? 23:25:23 indeed; even with the posix egg, you could fork processes like crazy that i wouldn't know about 23:25:40 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:27:56 so there's a statically compiled reader in a chroot without access to libraries; some of the srfis should be fair game, though 23:30:08 BW^-: my wife made me abandon das keyboard after the time-warped 1980s-style clicking chattered her teeth from across the house 23:30:44 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:39 heh 23:35:50 happy hacking is superior, anyway ;) 23:36:03 where else can you spend $300 for a tiny, labelless kb? 23:36:44 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:37:30 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:40:29 viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has joined #scheme 23:40:29 -!- viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has quit [K-lined] 23:41:10 klutometis: happy hacknig keyboard? 23:41:23 i mean, the point of das keyboard is it's nice to type on 23:41:27 what about h.h.? 23:41:57 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.237.181] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092414]"] 23:42:56 it's has wonderful response and key switch characteristics 23:42:57 http://www.pfusystems.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/keyspec.html 23:43:48 the professional is out of stock, though, because of RoHS 23:44:56 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:48:22 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:50:43 saccade_ [n=saccade@207-180-186-165.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:50:57 cky_ [n=cky@202-74-211-194.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:54:12 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:55:59 wingo-tp [n=wingo@243.Red-79-156-144.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:15 klutometis: yay for chroot 23:56:56 Daemmerung: christ, you guys had me sweating whilst i was reading the logs ;) 23:57:52 it's LOGNAME is reported as root, i think, because i have to chroot before i drop permissions 23:58:13 s/it's/its/