00:00:56 johnnyl: i know there's a guy who uses Chicken for this currently 00:01:05 also someone is writing a Nintendo DS game in Gambit 00:02:04 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:03:48 sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:31 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 00:09:31 00:09:31 -!- names: ccl-logbot sctb bpt attila_lendvai raikov moonfart BW^- Wardje Poeir gweiqi kniu synthasee Daemmerung JohnnyL bombshelter13 arcfide MichaelRaskin_ ggbbgg tizoc Modius error_developer_ tltstc` sm benny ug cracki schme_ melito Cale kilimanjaro Adamant z0d hiyuh underspecified foof pchrist tjafk2 eno synx grnman offby1 vkm Kinks nicholasw REPLeffect jeremiah elf ski_ ricky mornfall specbot kazzmir_ dfeuer certainty|work Mr_Awesome samth Debolaz 00:09:31 -!- names: pitui bsmntbombdood pjdelport mmc1 aquanaut pchrist|univ mbishop araujo levi sjamaan Kusanagi sladegen tarbo CaptainMorgan proq aspect a-s jdev nowhere_man seth keyofnight saccade merlincorey tessier ttmrichter p1dzkl cky elias` sphex xz felipe ineiros rudybot_ rdd tabe Khisanth Axioplase_ duncanm pfo_ borism r0bby travis|away bascule tltstc ctsprsrcl viocizgd djjack_ Elly nasloc__ agemo rmrfchik minion Riastradh dlouhy leppie Leonidas 00:09:31 -!- names: Paraselene_ gnomon qebab emma Arelius vincenz Deformative pbusser2 j4cbo chandler xian michaelw XTL Adrinael klutometis clog bunz mqt lisppaste zbigniew ski maskd eli kalven heat 00:10:35 I have a problem understanding how people roll out scheme applications... 00:10:54 Or if "application" makes sense at all in scheme... 00:11:13 It does not make sense in the most generic incarnation of Scheme. 00:11:20 It does make sense in the context of a particular implementation. 00:12:07 BW^-: howdy. 00:14:59 so... say you're dealing with an implementation like 48... 00:15:03 s48... 00:15:33 would you save out an image and call that an application? What exactly is an "image" anyway? 00:17:06 raikov` [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 00:20:05 keyofnight: I might describe this poorly, but an `image' would be the code and program state of a Scheme that supported the concept. You would use a VM to load an image, giving you a running system. 00:20:51 that's pretty cool. (: 00:20:56 In the case of Scheme48, I think you might write a shell script to invoke the VM to load your saved image, and call some specified procedure as the entrypoint to your `application' 00:21:25 The regular s48 repl does that, in fact 00:24:06 So that's what a scheme is? A few functions written in some low-level language, and an "image" of the rest of the language? 00:24:36 The rest of the implementation, I mean? 00:24:55 No, not generally 00:25:45 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:02 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 00:27:03 Scheme refers to the language itself, not the implementation 00:27:34 keyofnight: Different implementations have different ways of rolling out applications. Some document their methods fairly thoroughly. 00:27:54 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:57 keyofnight: Common among them all is a runtime library -- though some embed this in the executable. 00:28:39 keyofnight: As for what makes up an implementation, or rather, how Scheme is implemented, that differs almost as widely as do implementations. 00:29:21 keyofnight: Some Schemes are, I believe, written entirely in other languages. I think most have some set of primitives that are defined in another language, and then the rest of the system is written in Scheme. 00:29:39 Many implementations are written almost entirely in Scheme. 00:33:11 -!- raikov` [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:34:41 keyofnight: There is not much commonality to speak of here, though I would be surprised if there was a true Scheme where at least one function was not written in Scheme 00:34:55 How that works in practice varies wildly. 00:37:20 do you know who Nathan Tern is? 00:37:27 apparently he made cygwin ports for many scheme implementations 00:38:21 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 00:39:03 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:41:03 mmm. 00:41:05 That's interesting. 00:41:29 A friend of mine gave me the idea of writing a scheme implementation... to learn. 00:41:36 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:41:41 keyofknight: good idea. good luck! 00:41:49 I think that's a very ambitious project, and I think that my friend is just an ambitious person. 00:41:56 BW^-: I once got pscheme mail from him. Though I doubt he was porting it to cygwin! 00:42:07 aha? 00:42:09 pscheem? 00:42:23 (A Scheme of mine that runs on PDAs and Smartphones.) 00:43:17 Awesome. (: 00:43:32 aha 00:43:53 keyofnight: making a scheme yourself is an experience of a lifetime, or how you call it 00:44:01 i didn't, but i wrote an operating system model 00:44:10 you will always be proud of yourself, with good reason 00:44:16 and you'll see how simple it is 00:44:35 Awesome. (: 00:44:49 it's about bringing you to another level 00:45:19 I could write the primitives in C... and then start implementing the core... 00:45:25 but I barely even know the language. (; 00:45:30 right! 00:45:41 good way to learn it :) 00:45:43 so what are you waiting for, you already know enough. :) 00:51:28 Wow. Worst Scheme implementation name ever: http://armpit.sourceforge.net/index.html 00:51:57 But, it appears to be neat. No bignums, but it *does* appear to have full call/cc in a tiny-embeddable implementation. 00:52:34 *Daemmerung* resolves to create "Stalin's Armpit" 00:52:45 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:53:28 Do Chickens have armpits? 00:53:30 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:54:17 eh 00:54:32 a full Scheme on a decent sized ARM is not all that impressive 00:54:54 at least not more than a full Scheme on a regular arch 00:55:22 leppie: You here? 00:55:33 now if you could do a Scheme on an AVR or PIC, that would be quite impressive 00:56:43 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:57:13 Adamant: these are not "decent sized" ARMs, but rather small systems that compete with high-end 8-bits 00:57:27 ah 00:57:49 And he wrote the damned thing in ARM asm. 00:57:52 *Daemmerung* is impressed 00:58:10 ARM asm is not unpleasant to work in. The ability to make almost anything a conditional is nice. 00:58:23 ARM asm is impressive 00:59:04 echo-area [n=user@cmdev1.test.cnz.alimama.com] has joined #scheme 01:00:06 It's a sweet asm. But writing a Scheme in it is still a laudable feat. 01:01:45 -!- ug [n=merlin@67.159.169.138] has quit ["leaving"] 01:07:12 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:12:25 *keyofnight* giggles. 01:12:27 armpit. 01:13:17 I am just waiting for someone to come here and ask for an implementation for an ARM microcontroller 01:13:37 newuser: I think you should look at armpit 01:13:57 -!- newuser has left [well, if you're just going to insult me] 01:14:16 man. I totally don't have experience in anything. lol 01:14:35 I guess this is what they warned me about when coming out of college. 01:15:22 keyofnight: if you do your job right, in twenty-five years you'll still have that same clueless feeling. 01:15:39 What did I do wrong? 01:15:49 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 01:17:09 Interesting that armpit works on a Luminary processor. I thought those were Thumb-2 only. 01:18:01 Oh, it probably works due to source-level compatibility in the assembler. 01:18:06 Daemmerung: you know... I think you're right about that. If I lose this feeling, I might become as egotistical, complacent, and foolish as some people I know. 01:18:19 It's just a really nervous position to be in. 01:18:34 chandler: luminary processor? 01:18:45 keyofnight: http://www.luminarymicro.com/ 01:18:50 -!- echo-area [n=user@cmdev1.test.cnz.alimama.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:18:56 ARM Cortex-M3, which is a Thumb-2 only processor 01:19:11 it is ARM's attempt at killing most of the 8-bit midrange. 01:19:42 Adamant, speaking of Scheme on PIC microcontrollers, have you looked at Feeley's PicoBIT and PICBIT systems? 01:19:51 Guess what hardware they target? 01:20:01 gnomon: AVR? (I wish) 01:20:11 Think I can get a sample? lol 01:20:17 I will have to look at those. 01:20:52 chandler, did you catch the news about ARM trying to push the Cortex A8s and A9s into the netbook space/ 01:20:54 I realize people did the whole 8-bit Lisp thing in the 80's on micros 01:20:55 ? 01:21:22 I would cheerfully melt down a busful of nuns to get my hands on a portable A9 machine running Debian. 01:21:41 gnomon: Yes, I did. I am very interested in that. 01:21:58 Wirth's latest compiler (for Oberon-07, the latest 'version' of Oberon) is for ARM, has a nice paper showing the asm code certain Oberon code produces 01:23:06 Neat! Got a link to that paper? 01:23:47 gnomon: http://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/Articles/Oberon/Oberon.ARM.Compiler.pdf 01:23:48 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5fqzl8 01:24:26 Thanks, mbishop! 01:24:29 (Gosh, Oberon still exists?) 01:24:42 Yes, and I think work on Native Oberon is still ongoing. 01:24:43 Not only still exists, but Wirth still works on it heh 01:24:48 The 07 stands for 2007 01:24:49 (Gosh, Wirth still exists?) 01:24:55 Indeed 01:25:14 Your questions are not adding much of... eh, I won't bother 01:25:30 chandler: yeah, the system is no longer called Oberon though. It changed to Bluebottle, and now they call it "A2" 01:25:54 mbishop: yes, but I did not remember the name :-) 01:32:06 Wow... 01:32:13 (Gosh, I still exist?) 01:32:22 Oberon...that brings back memories. 01:33:48 wow. Oberon is such an... old looking language. 01:33:49 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@ZQ062141.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:34:07 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 01:34:47 keyofnight: What? Let me put a little more fresh paint on this Pascal^H^H^H^H^H^Htotally new programming language. Better? 01:35:09 (; 01:35:35 arcfide: what kind of memories? 01:35:56 Oberon is indeed pascal, only with less crap 01:36:05 and amazingly, the crap it lost makes it better heh 01:36:33 pascal is a language I kinda... skipped over. (: 01:36:37 Common Lisp is to Scheme as Pascal is to Oberon (well, sort of) 01:37:07 Does Oberon at least have arrays of length not statically fixed? 01:37:28 mbishop: That analogy would work better if I thought less of Comon Lisp, or more of Pascal. 01:37:56 Riastradh: yes 01:37:57 "Common" 01:38:08 they call them "open arrays" 01:38:20 `Better' in the sense that a stick in the eye is better than a barbed spear in the eye, perhaps. 01:38:46 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:38:54 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:39:48 Or to faint with damn praise, "At least it's not C". 01:39:57 indeed 01:46:58 -!- sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49:35 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 01:58:36 (: 02:01:42 When Wirth is gone Oberon will be wirthless. 02:01:51 no 02:02:02 you can still call it by name OR value! 02:02:08 har 02:03:52 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:03:56 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 02:15:11 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit ["Goin' away"] 02:15:13 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:15:15 mbishop: Oberon and Native Oberon were the first "Alternative OSes" that I used. 02:15:23 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 02:15:30 Well, at least, one of the first. 02:17:30 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 02:21:55 My first was called Windows. I tried it for about a year once in college. 02:23:46 -!- pitui [n=pitui@doh.research.att.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:23:57 foof: did you ever get over it? 02:24:48 *foof* twitches 02:25:01 *mbishop* backs away 02:25:22 I remember something about making MS Access databases... 02:29:20 I remember something about DOS 02:35:39 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:38:59 yome [n=guillaum@bas4-montreal28-1279577780.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 02:39:31 So, um, how's my practicality looking, yome? 02:40:31 ? 02:40:42 Practicality for employment? 02:40:45 The other day yome walked in here requesting that I be practical. I've yet to figure it out. 02:41:58 Riastradh, oh, it was about your post on the Gambit mailing-list regarding using C casts instead of using inexact->exact. 02:42:35 Gambit is so hideous it's painful :( 02:43:21 foof, yes. The sources. But the resulting implementation is quite nice. 02:43:49 It's so badly missing a real module system, though. 02:44:53 The initial snow proposal, as I recall, was a joke, but Feeley seemed 02:45:06 to be improving things. Did it never evolve into a real module system? 02:45:37 I don't think it has. 02:49:16 (offtopic: I can never get over the fact that in Japanese the words for "science" and "chemistry" are homophones) 02:55:24 *foof* whistles out the window to tell the dorm cat it's feeding time 02:57:05 Riastradh: ping? 02:57:34 anyone familiar with enum-sets and finite-types in scheme48? 02:57:57 Whoopie! My CVS repo is now on a remote server. 02:57:59 What do you want to know? 02:58:05 (CVS...?) 02:58:55 BW^- thanks 02:59:10 Riastradh: I know, I know. :-) 02:59:15 Daemmerung the Scheme interpreter (ARMpit) right? 02:59:28 I've been using CVS to track my sources lately instead of Darcs and the like. 02:59:39 ...why...? 02:59:47 *arcfide* shrugs. 02:59:54 Honestly, because it's in the Base installation. 03:00:19 It doesn't have any strong rationale, but since it doesn't harm my productivity any, I'm okay. 03:00:32 Riastradh: i'm having trouble making new instance of finite-types, when i put the type definition in a structure 03:00:39 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 03:01:09 duncanm, please be more specific. 03:01:32 I like the automatic backup aspect of using CVS with a remote server. 03:02:17 You can get the same automatic backup aspect with any other revision control system you want, with no more (or perhaps with less) effort than with CVS. 03:02:54 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 03:03:06 CVS is an old, funky system with lots of limitations and strange gotchas; I like it. :-) 03:04:09 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:04:56 duncanm pasted "enum-sets and finite-types" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69483 03:05:51 You didn't export FOO as syntax, duncanm. 03:05:55 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 03:06:00 ah 03:06:13 i get it 03:09:48 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:11:27 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:12:01 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 03:19:46 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:20:00 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:20:42 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:21:07 Base of what? OpenBSD? 03:28:39 xz: yes. 03:40:11 darcs :D 03:40:49 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:42:17 htmlprag: when will it be fixed? :) 03:46:03 sh10151: What's the problem? 03:46:37 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:47:03 foof: doesn't run in PLT 4 03:53:45 Should be easy to fix. 03:54:12 aha 03:54:34 There are two uses of SET-CDR! 03:55:19 Daemmeru` [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 03:55:29 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:24 ... and they're used to build the returned sxml representation :/ 03:56:33 So I take that back, it's not easy to fix. 03:57:05 It involves a core change to the logic of how htmlprag builds the result. 03:57:34 A hack solution would internally use mutable pairs, and convert them 03:57:43 to immutable pairs once on output. 03:59:59 This is a common Lisp optimization, and one not mentioned in: 04:00:01 http://blog.plt-scheme.org/2007/11/getting-rid-of-set-car-and-set-cdr.html 04:06:57 I think Neil has been wanting to rewrite it for a while 04:07:22 it was the first thing he wrote, I think 04:07:48 My HTML parser is better anyway :P 04:13:06 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:14:36 -!- travis|away is now known as travisbemann 04:14:41 what is it? 04:20:23 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 04:32:07 Oh, heh, it's not on my site :) 04:32:44 A lot of my best code isn't :) 04:33:01 It was available as a Common-Scheme package. 04:37:14 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 04:39:27 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 04:41:34 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:41:43 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 04:46:08 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:52:52 *arcfide* sleeps. 04:59:26 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberries"] 04:59:51 -!- yome [n=guillaum@bas4-montreal28-1279577780.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:00:37 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0084.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:01:41 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:03:04 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:11:32 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:21:54 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bedtime"] 05:27:32 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176194253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:46 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176221057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:30:17 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Connection reset by beer"] 05:30:25 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 05:33:45 cky_ [n=cky@203-211-92-114.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:33:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:35:35 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:36:43 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 05:36:43 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:39:24 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:39:25 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 05:45:00 foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:48:12 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-219-83.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:49:08 melito [n=melito@c-24-16-193-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:49:26 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 05:52:07 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:52:44 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:53:04 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 05:55:54 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 05:59:59 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:00:11 incubot: (+ 2 2) 06:00:11 4 06:00:37 how bots do we have here? :p 06:00:45 how many 06:01:03 we had zero chicken bots; now there's one 06:01:32 incubot: (cluck) 06:01:33 Error: unbound variable: cluck 06:01:37 :) 06:01:39 heh 06:01:58 klutometis, before bringing a bot into the channel, please (in general) OK it with the operators. What does `incubot' do? 06:01:58 Error: unbound variable: klutometis 06:02:05 i have gotten to writing the connection bit for an IRonSCheme bot 06:02:18 LOLOL 06:02:35 So far it appears to respond in bizarre ways to any message with the text `incubot' in it. 06:02:37 Bshift & breset have very bizarre semantics that defeat the purpose of composable or partial continuations in the first place. 06:02:52 incubot: tell incubot incubot 06:02:54 I will tell my friend you said I am philosophy of life IS eval lambda x Snakes on a Plane Sarahbot what. Ummm......What were we talking about again? 06:02:57 Riastradh: oh, sorry; i asked you about it the other day, and didn't get an explicit negative 06:03:02 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:03:05 killed it 06:03:14 sorry to take that for an implicit positive 06:03:17 klutometis, sorry, I don't remember that; can you refresh my memory? 06:03:39 it's a chicken repl with a four year log of #scheme convos indexed by words greater than three letters 06:03:45 It should speak, if ever, only when addressed. 06:04:10 Riastradh: indeed; I'll convert that to a "^incubot:" 06:04:27 An (inc incubot). 06:05:06 "^incubot[:,>]" 06:05:11 ...hm, that's usually the SUCC procedure. And why not a succubot? 06:05:46 Did I respond to your inquiry, klutometis? I have no recollection of it -- which could be the failure of my memory. 06:05:54 Daemmerung: good point; there's a subtle pun with incubus and incubation (eggs, etc.) 06:05:57 Time stands still while you and the succubot lie in each other's arms. 06:06:15 I feel experienced! 06:06:17 Riastradh: you waxed nostalgic about #scheme-repl, and went to bed. 06:07:30 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:14:53 luhar [i=3ba24401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-39fa3756620fb127] has joined #scheme 06:22:47 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:24:37 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:27:18 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 06:34:52 brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:39:22 automejja [n=edwin@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:39:34 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:40:51 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:41:11 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 06:41:52 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 06:53:59 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:54:09 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 06:55:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:00:24 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:00:55 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 07:04:24 let incubot naught speak lest spoken to 07:07:32 incubot: ciao! 07:08:50 incubot: speak, however, when spoken to 07:09:15 okay; back to the drawing board 07:09:30 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:11:57 sigh... graphics is hard 07:11:57 -!- Kinks [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:12:14 synx: #t dat. 07:12:26 *foof* goes shopping 07:12:41 One of my projects is to show the difference between an old byte array and a new one, via colored squares, letting you click on them to change the new array. 07:13:00 displaying that difference was pretty easy. But "letting you click on them" is danged hard. 07:13:34 What's giving you grief? 07:14:10 Kinks [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has joined #scheme 07:14:33 converting mouse coordinates to canvas coordinates, mostly. I think it's necessary to manually check the values of the scrollbars, unless I'm mistaken. 07:15:38 Also somewhat concerned I might kill X by allocating 4-pixel squares for 4 million bytes. Need zooming or something... 07:17:10 I don't think I've ever had a project with scrollbars that didn't give me a headache. 07:17:39 I don't know X, but generally, mouse coords are going to be window-relative, not canvas-relative. 07:17:48 (assuming that your canvas is the scrollable entity) 07:19:59 I'd do without the scrollbars, but I know I won't be able to fit more than 300K pixels on the screen that way. 07:21:28 Not saying you should bag the scrollbars. Just sympathizing. 07:25:08 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 07:27:48 thanks 07:27:50 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:29:53 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 07:37:12 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@119.96.9.0] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:38:39 papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has joined #scheme 07:38:41 zbigniew_ [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #scheme 07:40:09 foof: if you're still in old Nippon, I need a favor. I need you to take a train to Tokyo, find whoever was broadcasting "Tokyoninja" from his employer's attic, and convince him to get his ShoutCast channel back on the air. It was a marvelous thing, more so now that I don't have it. 07:40:39 Will you pay for the $300 round trip train fare? 07:42:22 I will pay you in lovingly fedexed baked goods. Probably cost me close to that you get it to you semi-fresh. 07:43:00 (unless you dig rye, in which case I can send it via transPacific container vessel) 07:44:55 Actually, I have something of a baked goods dilemma. 07:45:22 There is only one English muffin producer in the Japanese Isles, 07:45:34 and they recently decided to start advertising on TV. 07:45:35 leppie_work [n=DKK@196.211.225.67] has joined #scheme 07:45:47 The result is muffins are now perpetually sold out. 07:49:34 Hm. Engleesh muffins are pretty far from my domain of expertise. But I do know that they freeze well, since they're 1) loaded with fat, and 2) always re-baked ("toasted"). So if you ever do score some, buy as many as you can and stuff them all in the freezer. 07:50:40 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-18-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 07:50:42 More of a lean-dough/pain au levain/whole-wheat ("pain complet") guy myself. 07:50:59 That, and Vollkornbrot. 07:51:31 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:57 I tend to prefer French breads, but sourdough is also hard to come by 07:52:02 here. 07:53:42 Analyzing binary data is kind of fascinating. It's byte-aligned but... 07:53:51 ROM dumps specifically. 07:54:49 I need to record two, both which should be identical, and then mark their differences as to be ignored. Then making a significant change, the only difference left over should be what changed. 07:55:54 A 3-stage difference algorithm like that I've never seen before... It's like initial, same, different. Maybe with set operations... 07:56:45 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 07:59:04 synx: like xdelta? 08:00:01 Yeah, but... I don't know that file format. 08:00:39 That's really only for a 2-stage diff anyway. I guess what I'm thinking could emerge from that. 08:02:07 i know there has been several versions of that, i read through it some (5 or so) years, wass interesting 08:07:31 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-68-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:08:54 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 08:09:26 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:13:07 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has joined #scheme 08:13:25 elmex [n=elmex@e180066111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 08:15:37 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 08:17:25 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 08:18:37 foof: it surprises me that you can't find sourdough. The Japanese have wrought havoc in recent World 08:18:37 Cup baking competitions. Maybe that's a Tokyo thing, or else just a few obsessed folks whose work doesn't reflect 08:18:37 elsewhere. 08:19:13 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:26:07 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:29:00 I'm confused... 08:29:03 ...but hungry. 08:33:37 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:48 Daemmerung: the Japanese wrecked havoc in 60's volleyball. I've never heard of volleyball being particularly popular in Japan. 08:38:05 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 08:39:47 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 08:41:10 hmm... I could get multiple "identical" save states, and eliminate all their differences... 08:42:11 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-098-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 08:53:38 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 08:57:20 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:57:29 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:57:47 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 08:58:23 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3f06295b8c82f327] has joined #scheme 08:59:05 Why does SVN add .so files by default? 09:01:12 no clue 09:01:30 foof: You can add an .svnignore on .so files 09:02:04 Sure, I'm talking about the default behavior though. 09:02:09 (define (call-with-input-files proc . files) whimper...) 09:02:17 That's more or less #1 on the list of extensions not to include. 09:02:52 foof: And .exe, .com, .obj, ... 09:03:15 sure 09:03:30 My personal ignore list should be limited to .[ch] ;) 09:03:39 :) 09:06:53 benny [n=benny@i577A0DC7.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 09:11:48 -!- melito [n=melito@c-24-16-193-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 09:14:41 mine includes .vb* .htm* .php .java .js .delphi :) 09:15:20 talking about delphi, ohloh detects scheme as pascal... 09:15:30 It doesn't 09:15:45 Maybe you have something funky in your source that causes it to do so 09:15:52 My code all gets detected correctly 09:15:57 well maybe it does not like .ss or .sls extensions 09:16:02 oh 09:16:04 *sjamaan* uses .scm 09:16:13 You can ask them 09:16:18 #ohloh is pretty friendly 09:16:24 ahh ok 09:16:43 (can take a while before you get a reply, but eventually you will) 09:17:30 yeah, thanks 09:17:41 i just posted the message there now :) 09:18:13 What's your username on ohloh? 09:18:18 leppie 09:18:21 :) 09:18:39 it's nice having nick almost no one uses 09:18:49 well it is being used more nowadays 09:19:08 a few years back i was pretty much gaurenteed to get my desired username 09:22:05 mmm, maybe its detecting my .pp (post processed) file as pascal 09:23:01 ah, that sounds likely 09:23:11 You can download ohcount and check for yourself, btw 09:23:23 (if you're willing to create a full ruby environment...) 09:23:49 i can do that tonite i guess 09:25:00 hmm, it shows 0 lines of scheme code 09:25:01 -!- foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:25:03 https://www.ohloh.net/projects/IronScheme/analyses/latest 09:25:20 ouch 09:25:37 I bet it's the .ss extension that's not recognised 09:25:46 _and_ the .pp being recognised as Pascal 09:25:48 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3f06295b8c82f327] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 09:26:08 Ohloh has quite a few problems detecting languages 09:26:09 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:26:38 I added the Chicken wiki content (it uses svnwiki, so content is versioned), and it sees nothing 09:26:46 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.48.196.230] has joined #scheme 09:26:57 Only one Scheme source file that's in the wiki 09:27:16 Funny thing is, it _does_ see the commits I did on it :) 09:27:42 So zero files, but a lot of commits :) 09:28:15 i think it does the same for me 09:28:21 on .ss files 09:28:38 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:29:37 okay, so create states before, and after. Eliminate differences in the two sets. Then examine differences between the two sets. 09:29:39 Oh, or maybe sleep. 09:31:38 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 09:34:27 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:36:17 lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 09:37:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:41:18 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 09:41:28 -!- lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 09:41:59 lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 09:42:19 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:42:32 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 10:24:01 Snowflakes 10:32:09 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38:12 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 10:38:50 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 10:44:41 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:46:35 -!- luhar [i=3ba24401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-39fa3756620fb127] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 10:51:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:55:34 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-25931156f7181b3e] has joined #scheme 10:56:13 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:58:43 sjamaan: .pp does map to pascal, and scheme only gets detected on .scm files 10:58:53 looking at ohcount 11:01:12 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 11:04:13 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:04:53 -!- automejja [n=edwin@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 11:07:36 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has 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[i=a@c-67-185-17-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:32:41 offby1: ping! 15:34:44 Go Phillies! :) 15:35:21 *eli* wonders if "duncanm" is more likely to get offby1's attention... 15:35:45 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 15:36:17 offby1: duncanm! 15:37:14 *offby1* glowers 15:41:47 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:43:04 *eli* runs off to his class 15:43:15 duncanm: if you see this, then today is the fun LC stuff 15:43:24 SinDoc [n=SinDoc@ip-213-49-145-54.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #scheme 15:44:23 If you can read this, then you're spending too much time on IRC! Get a life! 15:44:25 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:48:41 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 15:49:14 Wondering how to use MVC pattern in Scheme; 15:49:48 "Design Patterns don't exist in Lisp" - Peter Norvig 15:49:56 actually he didn't said that :-) 15:50:17 Hmmm... Or was it Gabriel? 15:50:40 Norvig, you mean the AI guy now at Google? 15:51:32 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:53:35 yeah, he or Gabriel said that most design patterns are not necessary in Lisp 15:54:47 Well, how would one build a GUI using Scheme while separating concerns? 15:55:08 Gosh, I didn't know Peter Gabriel used Lisp. 15:55:54 lol 15:56:09 arcfide: you called earlier? 15:56:58 leppie: yeah, I did. I was checking on .NET based versions of Scheme. 15:57:07 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 15:57:23 I have a guy who is building his own scheme because he couldn't find any .NET versions he wanted. I think he was basing it on the DLR. 15:58:04 well he will have a hard time 15:58:08 He mentioned that he looked at IronScheme pretty heavily, but that you had indicated you weren't going the DLR route. 15:58:18 the DLR is not suitable as is, as I discovered 15:58:25 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-249-113.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:28 Apparently the implementation is still rough, but he claimes that the DLR has changed a lot. *shrug* 15:58:41 maybe he meant to 'pure' DLR route 15:58:52 well then it wont be SCheme, no tail calls 15:59:24 leppie: Could you emulate tail calls? 15:59:43 leppie: I have trouble believing that a general purpose language would be incapable of expressing tail calls in some way or another. 15:59:44 if you do tail call elimination, sure 16:00:05 the CLR supports tail calls, the DLR have not that functionality 16:00:17 i requested it, never happened 16:00:43 leppie: How can the DLR not support tail calls? I mean, it's a general purpose language, right? So doing tail calls should be possible, even if the language itself doesn't support it. 16:00:43 they also have some arb way of doing thing, that just didnt work for me 16:01:13 yes tail calls is possible, like I added, but there are a few considerations to take 16:01:47 i think the DLR authors just though it's not viable 16:02:02 TauPan [n=taupan@dudelab.org] has joined #scheme 16:02:13 I mean how many run of the mill hackers will know what a tail call is? 16:02:41 Currently I'm half-seriously considering using scheme for a system administration script. I wonder what would be the best scheme implementation for the job. 16:02:41 Eh, hackers do, but I think little programming monkies generally have little to no clue. 16:02:59 the only place IronScheme does not do tail calls where required is in dynamic-wind 16:03:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:22 TauPan: scsh maybe? 16:03:52 scsh seems a bit unmaintained 16:03:56 although i dont like that , syntax they have 16:04:29 If your only complaint with scsh is the use of commas for unquotation, uh... 16:04:30 TauPan: You can probably get away with using just about any decent Scheme for that, but you could give more details and then maybe we could recommend something. 16:05:05 Riastradh: it looks weird :) it probably works very well though 16:05:30 `I don't like English because of the way that question marks look.' 16:05:37 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:06:07 I dont liek english, because you cant ask where someyhing is at 16:06:14 :) 16:06:27 *Riastradh* blinks. 16:06:45 iow, you cant end a sentence with a preposition 16:07:00 *arcfide* chuckles. 16:07:13 Why can't you? 16:07:15 so you have to do: where is this place at, asshole? :p 16:07:23 lol 16:07:31 its not proper english 16:07:48 You are citing a two-century old mistaken importation of a Latin rule into English that was just as bogus then as it is now. 16:07:51 leppie: There are a few other "Standard English Rhetoric" complaints about asking where something is at. 16:08:03 arcfide: I wonder what kind of details might help you... I certainly like the posix interface available in scsh, but I think something similar is available for scheme48 nowadays. The job is really trivial, read and parse a config file, output some configuration files in a different format and then start (and possibly control) daemons that read in the configuration. 16:08:24 No, TauPan, Scheme48's POSIX interface is not really comparable to scsh's, and it doesn't work very well. 16:08:27 the *real* goal here is to show off the elegance and usability of scheme for such a job 16:08:41 Riastradh: thanks for clearing that up... I never really looked at that. 16:08:41 TauPan: then write it in your favorite Scheme, and write it well. 16:09:04 I don't really have a favorite scheme implementation at the moment... didn't program in scheme in a year. :) 16:09:30 I was planning to take a closer look at plt and/or chicken. 16:09:38 they are probably both up to the job 16:09:47 TauPan: A few Schemes have "scripting" type support that allows you to treat a file as a script like you would a perl file. 16:10:01 leppie, so, please try to do a better job of finding complaints. That is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put. 16:10:30 I am sure Petite, Chicken, PLT, MIT, Scheme48, &c. will be fine. 16:10:33 i wasnt complaining, Riastradh :) purely stating my opinion 16:11:06 leppie, well, to be precise, you were also claiming a bogus proposition to be fact. 16:11:12 Stylistic, I was taught that it should read, "I will not put up with this sort of nonsense." 16:11:17 i have never used scsh before, so I shall make any judgement, just what I saw from some tutorials 16:11:52 well, maybe I was just taught ending a sentence in a preposition is not correct 16:12:14 maybe the definition of accepted english has changed since I been to school 16:12:28 arcfide: is that srfi implemented in chicken? 16:12:33 not that I was very good at it to start with (error again) 16:12:34 leppie: It is a rule that exists in the Grammars of some English books, and one which I rather like, but which does not really stand as accepted fact among all Grammarians. 16:12:56 TauPan: What SRFI? 16:13:05 arcfide: I have dared studying english that well :) 16:13:09 #! script support is a srfi, iirc 16:13:14 I have NOT dared... 16:13:17 duh 16:13:21 TauPan, you don't want to use that SRFI. 16:13:41 TauPan: I think that it is in R6RS in some suggestion or something like that, but I would just check the implemtnation of your choice. 16:13:44 wait 16:14:00 chicken is compiled to standalone binaries anyways... I forgot 16:14:14 <- confused, don't let that confuse you. 16:14:48 Riastradh: I do not? Didn't you forget the jedi master handwave? 16:15:05 this is not the scheme you looking for? :p 16:15:19 SRFI 16:15:20 oops 16:15:28 leppie, there is no `definition of accepted English', but in any case, no one has failed to understand a sentence merely because it ended with a preposition, and no one but doddering, ignorant prescriptivists, citing a mistaken rule from two hundred years ago that hitherto had been neither practised nor preached. 16:15:55 ...er: no one but doddering, ignorant prescriptivists, citing such a mistaken rule, reject the ending of sentences by prepositions. 16:16:34 see, my english is do bad, I dont even know the defintion of 25% of the words you used! (well more like 50% but I can deduce some meanings) 16:16:51 /sdo/so 16:16:55 /s/do/so 16:17:55 At best, it is merely a suggestion of style that a sentence is stronger if it ends on a word other than a preposition. 16:18:02 (in some cases) 16:19:42 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:20:15 -!- mmc1 [n=gvtk86@217.147.104.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:20:31 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 16:25:53 *TauPan* downloads chicken. 16:26:39 -!- SinDoc [n=SinDoc@ip-213-49-145-54.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:37:52 *Daemmerung* splits an infinitive 16:40:24 Daemmeru` [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 16:40:24 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:43 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 16:41:00 *proq* wonders why not knowing what prescriptivist means would make someone's english bad 16:41:29 -!- TauPan [n=taupan@dudelab.org] has left #scheme 16:41:35 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless212.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:41:53 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 16:42:00 -!- hemulen is now known as unhemulen 16:42:09 -!- unhemulen is now known as hemulen 16:43:29 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:50:33 Wohoo...I know have an anoncvs repository. 16:50:38 s/know/now/ 16:51:22 -!- lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:52 cvs??? 16:55:14 does anyone still use that? 17:00:45 (format "All the cool kids are using ~a" (apply amb (filter (lambda (e) (not (eq? e 'cvs))) (all-sccs-installed)))) 17:16:24 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:21:56 leppie: I still use CVS, and lot's of people still use CVS. 17:22:29 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 17:22:52 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:23:20 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:32:56 besiria [n=user@ppp083212086009.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 17:33:52 Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 17:44:24 oh dear, you would think people would know the difference between a statement and an expression... 17:44:47 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057B21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:41 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["foobar"] 17:48:04 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:05 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:52:09 leppie: you'd be surprised 17:52:47 lucky in scheme people dont have to worry about that (too much) 18:00:54 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-206-75-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 18:07:29 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:44 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:10:53 Oh, how cute. A Hallowe'en Easter-egg in DrScheme. 18:12:17 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:12:33 and what is that? 18:13:05 a stack trace? 18:13:11 Lambda Jack-O-Lantern splash screen. 18:16:09 heh, cool 18:18:29 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:19:17 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:19:45 pitui [n=pitui@doh.research.att.com] has joined #scheme 18:22:34 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@156-56-204-215.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:28:23 borism [n=boris@195-50-212-207-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 18:30:05 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:35:07 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-206-75-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:35:20 leppie, yes, because there are no statements in Scheme, only expressions in command contexts. Of course, this doesn't actually stop people from talking nonsense about statements... 18:36:35 expressions are awesome. Statements are part of what kills Python lambdas (only allows expressions and too many things are statements) 18:37:29 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:37:30 -!- papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:37:31 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 18:41:21 ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has joined #scheme 18:43:14 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212086009.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:41 Riastradh: there are definitions and syntax definitions, which are Not Expressions. 18:43:58 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 18:45:01 Yep. Those are definitions and syntax definitions, which are indeed not expressions, nor even commands (i.e. expressions in command contexts). There are also sequences, which may be expressions or not depending on their context. 18:46:10 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 18:47:13 I guess a "statement" in the Pascal sense would entail either one of those not-expressions, or else one of the many charming expressions with undefined values. 18:48:10 `Statement' is not a term in the Scheme lexicon, and has no linguistic right to serve as a substitute for the term `command'. Its place sensibly lies in logic languages such as Prolog which actually do have declarative statements, rather than imperative commands. 18:48:11 a statement is anything that cannot occur on the right hand side of an assignment 18:48:14 generally 18:48:42 *Daemmerung* campaigns for the linguistic rights of oppressed Statements 18:48:43 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:44 Its use to mean `command' is a historical accident that ought to be rectified. 18:49:32 but even a scheme 'command' is a still an expression, albeit a context sensitive one 18:49:32 leppie: better yet, it's something that has a value (can be eval'ed) 18:50:01 ventonegro: try explain that to people coding in visual basic :) 18:50:19 leppie: they must repent their imperative ways! :-D 18:50:45 http://xacc.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/helpme.png?w=500&h=48 18:51:00 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:51:05 thats the vb i have to deal with at work... 18:51:41 *Daemmerung* time-travels back 50 years to protect the Algol designers against the fury of Riastradh 18:51:54 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 18:52:40 leppie: that picture was too much for my emacs 18:52:44 it crashed 18:52:48 lol :p 18:52:59 i do that many times a day :| 18:53:53 i wish someone would pay me to do something useful one day 18:54:14 i have this tendency to join titanic companies it seems 18:54:27 leppie: I shared your wishes 18:54:34 share* 18:54:38 last one sank in Feb this year, and the current on is sinking in Dec 18:54:46 heh 18:55:03 at least i have '2 month notice' 18:55:14 leppie: i'm sorry 18:55:19 Cale_ [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:55:25 it sucked anyways 18:55:29 i was dead bored 18:55:42 i feel too guilty hacking scheme at work for my own joy 18:55:55 I do not :-) 18:56:08 it's for my mental sanity 18:56:30 i do little bits, but not much 18:57:05 this last week involved crystal reports... 18:57:15 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-73-186.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:57:30 it's kinda a low point in my carreer i think 18:57:34 :| 18:57:46 what are you doing next? 18:58:03 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:58:48 testing client side integration, involving that vb.net section you saw, thats the middle man, the client is pure vb, i dare not go there 18:59:34 i mean, after your notice 18:59:42 lol 19:00:06 no i meant the company will probably go down in 2 months, they need a new investor... 19:00:12 im looking for work now 19:00:39 i doubt they will find an investor, poor product 19:00:41 hemulen_ [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:00:52 leppie: Investors don't care 19:01:27 A client of ours has been carting in investor money for close to 3 years now with a horrible product which still has made zero money 19:01:33 lol, i think it's poor product... 19:01:55 i just wanna be kept busy doing not so bring shit 19:01:59 boring 19:02:48 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:02:50 there are people there that takes a week to write the code in php to connect to a .net webservice, then still struggle 19:03:01 heh 19:03:04 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 19:03:11 PHP programmers.. 19:03:17 Don't get me started! 19:03:26 no, a delphi wannabe in an VB role 19:03:30 doing PHP 19:03:50 very documentation agnostic 19:04:02 heh 19:04:12 maybe VB docs were really bad :) 19:04:33 then i cant blame them 19:05:24 wtf 19:05:33 ubuntu.org is not ubuntu? 19:06:13 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 19:10:45 SGIN FAIL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm hahaha 19:10:52 oops SIGN 19:11:20 FAIL NOTICE FAIL 19:11:27 :| 19:15:02 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@208.72.159.207] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? 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It's not the Supreme Court (yet), but... 21:16:31 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:35 Holy doodle! 21:16:38 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:16:42 I called that one *totally* wrong. 21:16:56 We'll need a jaw-broom here, I imagine. 21:18:33 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-254-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:19:18 Hmmh 21:19:34 The world's still going to hell 21:19:43 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-254-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:19:59 Interesting, though most patent lawyers specializing in technology will phrase software patents as an instantiation of a combined software / hardware system already. 21:20:08 It is a faint glimmer of light amidst the murk of submersion in a cesspool. 21:20:18 So, I'd imagine thata good number of software patents will not be affected by this. 21:21:07 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:21:18 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:24:30 Here's the full opinion of the court, by the way: . 21:24:54 (Ironically, I first spotted this in the Register, and haven't seen it in any major US news sources.) 21:25:23 Riastradh: groklaw covered it, iirc 21:27:37 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 21:29:20 -!- nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:32:17 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 21:51:08 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 21:52:10 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:52:27 annodomini_ [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 21:55:43 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:55:47 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 21:56:59 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:06 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Client Quit] 21:57:16 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:08:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:54 -!- GoNoGo [n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 22:16:14 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:18:43 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:20:26 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 22:20:41 -!- ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has quit ["bbl"] 22:22:16 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:33 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:26:07 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:15 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:29:33 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:30 Hey... what do you guys think of test driven development? 22:34:42 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:02 AUGH 22:35:25 *synx* has a post-traumatic freak out 22:36:13 So...many...tests... 22:42:02 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:04 keyofnight: it's pretty cool 22:42:08 keyofnight: I should do it more often :) 22:44:01 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@79.248.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:44:12 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:24 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:44:41 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:44:42 -!- mib_2vd1uj9a [i=43c78706@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4c21f69cbd24362d] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:50:29 ahahaha 22:50:34 It's freaking me out. 22:50:55 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057B21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:57 keyofnight: it's pretty easy to do in a lispy language, I would say 22:58:38 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 22:58:41 following the HtDP style, it's nice you can just kinda write some assertions like (= 0 (myfunction 'data data)) and build out a bunch of those as contracts that your code must fulfill 22:59:03 really gives you a bit of a focus and of course the actual point of tests, verification 23:01:48 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:04:52 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:07:53 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:09:54 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 23:13:20 -!- nicholasw [n=nw@ckc-109-118.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [] 23:33:04 testing and development are like eval/apply 23:33:29 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:41:18 -!- rebe [n=rebe@151.Red-79-150-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:44:39 -!- Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 23:47:48 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Remote closed the connection]