00:00:15 me, nothing exciting, been cleaning my HD this past weekend. having <50MB free in / sucks. 00:03:04 jonrafkind: still in the channel but voice banned. 00:03:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:03:23 ah, thats what that was. I thought voice ban was set mode -v 00:06:19 jonrafkind: actually, its -q and thats internally the same as +b %foo 00:07:24 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:10:52 -!- hellues_ [n=hellues@88.235.213.14] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:44 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:16:58 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:17:49 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.237.8] has joined #scheme 00:19:29 *Leonidas* wishes for fortune cookies with kzo's quotes. 00:19:45 The more I read them, be funnier they seem. 00:19:57 s/be/the/ 00:23:25 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-166-102.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:26:44 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 00:31:18 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:36:11 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 00:37:23 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 00:42:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-51.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:44:52 sili [n=sili@222.127.65.136] has joined #scheme 00:46:28 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:52:07 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-19.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 00:53:53 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:07 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:54:32 la la la 00:56:02 would y'all rather take a course named "How to cope with being a geek" or "OS X is better than U(nix)"? 00:57:12 ... 00:57:34 I'd rather hack Scheme! 00:57:39 same. 00:57:49 even if I haz the noobness. 00:58:02 I could attempt teaching scheme? 00:58:06 i'd rather not 00:58:09 i'm not there yet 00:58:22 i _could_ do some robotics though 00:58:23 Riastradh: noted, thanks 00:58:30 dfg59 [n=dfg59@12.50.174.130] has joined #scheme 00:58:42 What is your audience, and what are you trying to accomplish, mheld_? 00:58:53 hey all, i just downloaded plt scheme for os x and i don't see plt as a language option. 00:59:08 middleschool/highschool students, and a class that someone would want to take 00:59:12 dfg59: Ironic, isn't it? 00:59:37 dfg59: You need to beat the final boss to unlock the PLT language level. 00:59:45 :) 01:00:04 <- obviously a scheme noob 01:01:50 just confused as the website talked about an R6RS implementation and all i seem to be able to select is R5RS 01:02:15 i apologize if this is a dumb question, i've used quite a few implementations, just trying to poke around at dr scheme 01:02:53 dfg59: to use r6rs, start your code with #!r6rs 01:03:15 mheld_, you may well observe that your audience in this channel is unlikely to have a large intersection with your desired audience for your class. By the way, this is not, by any chance, a weekend class that will happen some time in mid-November, is it? 01:03:32 umm... possibly :-D 01:04:33 i _do_ have experience teaching robotics though. 01:05:08 eli: thanks 01:07:27 eli, why would you point him at r6rs instead of #lang scheme ? 01:08:11 jonrafkind: "dfg59: ... the website talked about an R6RS implementation and all i seem to be able to select is R5RS" 01:08:51 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@ZQ174212.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:08:58 alright.. dfg59 are you experienced enough with scheme to use r6rs ? 01:08:59 jonrafkind: in fact, i attempted to run the code #lang scheme, as the tutorial noted, but was greeted with an exception 01:09:09 jonrafkind: not really, just trying to get my bearings here 01:09:15 oh what tutorial and what exception did you get 01:10:01 i was just following the plt scheme guide on the plt website 01:10:03 and i'm seeing 01:10:18 reference to undefined identifier: module 01:11:48 echo-area [n=user@cmdev1.test.cnz.alimama.com] has joined #scheme 01:12:06 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:15:05 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:16:15 nring [n=nring@CPE-124-191-37-233.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:17:12 dfg59, where do you see module in the guide 01:17:42 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/intro.html 01:17:51 i'm just attempting to run "#lang scheme" 01:17:55 and that's the error i'm seeing 01:18:05 what language are you in 01:18:10 you have to select the module language 01:18:16 alright 01:18:18 as opposed to beginning student or something 01:18:40 i see, seems it defaulted to r5rs, possibly because of some toying i'd done earlier 01:18:43 thanks for the help 01:18:57 ok 01:19:05 Riastradh, eli: I'd like to summarize our discussion yesterday about the Ikarus method of handling libraries and REPLs. Am I accurate in saying that the main points were 1) Implicit Phasing's safeness; 2) the ability to invoke libraries that contain no definitions; 3) the REPLs dynamic behavior and lack of phase separation? 01:19:42 (The word is usually spelt `safety'.) 01:19:53 Riastradh: Eherm, yes. 01:20:27 *foof* jabs arcfide with a safeness pin 01:20:49 eli: Does PLT Scheme make guarantees about how many times and when library code will be invoked? That is, the expressions in a library form. 01:21:07 There is little difference between items 1 and 3. Implicit phasing appears to precisely be phase conflation. 01:21:11 eli: I'm curious about how PLT Scheme compares in its evaluation of libraries compared to Chez. 01:21:21 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-122.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 01:21:29 Yes, arcfide. There is an oft-cited paper called `Composable and Compilable Modules' which describes what PLT does. 01:22:11 Riastradh: Point three is about the ability to type a procedure into the REPL, and then subsequently use it in a macro definitions meta phase without having to place it into this phase explicitely, which differs from implicit phasing of libraries. 01:22:32 Riastradh: I suppose this is searchable? 01:23:08 All that I interpret by that is that phases are conflated in the REPL just as much as in libraries. 01:24:38 Riastradh: Well, okay, but this is a different problem, that exists outside of libraries. Wrapping a set of definitions and macro definitions in a LET () that once worked in the REPL could result in non-working code. That's different than libraries. 01:25:14 The effect is much the same. 01:25:15 Only in the details of how it fails to separate phases. 01:25:31 -!- ug [n=merlin@64.47.164.86] has quit ["leaving"] 01:25:33 Riastradh: this paper you mentioned relates to R6RS librareis and is the paper by Flatt (2002)? 01:25:50 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:26:08 Yes. R6RS libraries are semantically not far from PLT modules, which the paper is about. 01:26:18 Okay, thank you. 01:28:19 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:28:33 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:28:39 arcfide: Yes, PLT *always* separates phases; repl or no repl. 01:29:21 The bottom line is that semantics of code in module is *always* the same, and a very strong separation means that you can always rely on being able to compile code separately. 01:29:36 [Ignoring stuff that it cannot protect from, like using a file.] 01:29:44 -!- dfg59 [n=dfg59@12.50.174.130] has quit [] 01:30:08 As for R6RS, I think that the phase separation business is not strictly enforced, but I really don't remember the details. 01:31:06 One of the things that were mumbled yesterday by primop was a quotation of Matthew saying: "the repl is hopeless" (or something like it) 01:31:19 Yes, I recall that. 01:31:31 The quotation is correct -- but *module* code that is evaluated in the repl still has the same semantics. 01:31:46 Yes. 01:31:52 Makes sense. 01:31:57 That is, the hopelessness of the repl makes it confusing at times, but not inconsistent. 01:31:59 ...in PLT (and in Scheme48), but not in Chez (or Ikarus?). 01:32:33 Riastradh: assuming that you're completing my sentence -- yes; and that really surprised me. 01:32:57 Yes, sorry: I was completing the sentence `...but module code that is evaluated in the REPL still has the same semantics' 01:32:59 (I talked to both Matthias and Matthew, just to see if they knew about it -- that's how surprised I was...) 01:33:02 Riastradh: I don't think that Chez's handling of libraries in the REPL is inconsistent, but definitely its handling of normal separation outside of libraries. 01:35:50 What surprised me was that merely importing a library does not require that the library be invoked. 01:36:11 Riastradh: Right, and this is manifested in certain types of libraries and on the REPL. 01:36:51 Riastradh: To clarify, would you expect only one invocation regardless of the number of times it is imported inside a series of libraries, or would you expect a separate invocation for every time it was used? 01:36:57 This is, however, the nonsense that one finds in the R6RS, I have just discovered. 01:37:29 Riastradh: Nonsense in that it allows this behavior? 01:37:58 Yes, arcfide. So there is no way in the R6RS to record dependencies of effects. 01:38:03 eli: Did Matthias and Matthew have a response? 01:38:50 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless223.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:39:14 Riastradh: What do you mean specifically? You mean, that given a library that exists only for its effect, there is no way in R6RS to explicitly note and require that a library be invoked? 01:39:22 (Syntactically R6RS libraries are brain-damaged anyway. There is no legitimate reason to prohibit mixture of definitions and commands in library bodies. Furthermore, a separate notion of `top-level program' is silly.) 01:39:45 arcfide, yes, as far as I am aware. 01:40:37 arcfide: Yes they did, but I shouldn't be speaking on their behalf. 01:40:46 Riastradh: So, as far as how you would handle top-level, would you just assume all code to be executed in some presumed library that implicitly imports the default library for that implementation? 01:41:00 eli: No records? :-) If you would, I'd be very happy if they could send their comments to me. 01:41:07 -!- offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["reboot"] 01:41:11 Eli: I'll email them, I guess, 01:41:12 I assume all code to be organized into libraries or some analogous construct. 01:41:40 arcfide: No, no records -- one face to face and one phone call. 01:41:48 Riastradh: Doing so would prevent or eliminate the possibility of the "dynamic" phase fuddling of Chez's REPL, right? 01:42:12 arcfide: Or, if you *really* want to, you can use the mailing list. 01:42:21 eli: I'd prefer just their opinions. :-) 01:42:41 There is no intrinsic technical limitation that prevents Chez from engaging in nonsense wherever and whenever it so pleases. 01:42:53 Hehehe. 01:43:25 Actually, I anticipate that this will result in quite an interesting discussion in tomorrow's class. 01:43:31 arcfide: Feel free to CC me if that will make you more comfortable, or if you think it will help getting an answer. 01:43:34 Since pretty much the whole class is oriented towards libraries. 01:43:49 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:43:49 What is this class? 01:43:51 eli: It wouldn't offend me if they didn't answer. 01:44:02 Riastradh: It's B629 Special Topics with Kent. 01:44:43 Riastradh: Basically, it's an umbrella for discussing R6RS libraries, their design, their limitations (we all dislike them) and then having to use them in real-life code. 01:44:53 More or less. 01:45:13 With the details of macros and the like thrown in to make sure it is sufficiently complex. 01:45:43 I don't think there is a person in there that thinks R6RS libraries are very good. 01:46:59 Not even the one who was among those principally responsible for the R6RS, whose name is in big letters on the first page of the R6RS? 01:47:12 Riastradh: He has a lot of issues with the libraries. 01:47:35 arcfide: BTW, if you only want to hear their opinion for the sake of their opinion then it's fine -- but if you really want to be aware of the design issues, then I think that Riastradh was very thorough with you. 01:47:49 eli: It's mostly for the sake of their opinion. 01:48:01 eli: Potentially high entertainment value. 01:48:02 :-) 01:48:11 arcfide: And be sure to read Matthews paper in any case -- otherwise it will be the first thing you will be told. 01:48:24 eli: I have downloaded it already. 01:49:03 Riastradh: I shouldn't speak for him, of course, but I would feel confident saying that he's not satisfied with them. 01:49:04 Riastradh: I suspect that the same holds for Matthew; for example, the definitions--expressions division is not something that sounds like him. 01:50:14 OK. (I wonder whose fault that division was? But to answer that would require wading through years of discussion archives, a great sink of time to which my curiosity is too weak to impel me.) 01:50:45 Same here, naturally. 01:51:38 I don't think anyone was too happy with the result, actually. 01:52:07 arcfide: No one in the class likes the R6RS libraries, why? 01:52:16 grettke: Because we actually have to use them. 01:52:28 Some of us have had to implement them. 01:52:31 arcfide: So I shouldn't bother reading about them?! 01:52:39 Those of us who do find them tolerable are the least experienced of the bunch. 01:52:48 Oh no, read all you want. :-) 01:52:59 arcfide: So I shouldn't bother to use them?! 01:53:08 Oh no, use them if you want. 01:53:18 arcfide: I will hehe, just wondering what the pain is about. 01:53:22 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:24 People use MIT Scheme's Package nightmare, but that doesn't mean people like it. 01:54:13 grettke: 1) You are potentially forced to use the #!blah cruft when the library fails to accurately express its contents; 2) There is no separation of dependencies and evaluation; ... 01:54:36 3) they are not friendly to macros (that is, macros generating libraries or other such things. 01:55:07 4) They do not allow for interspersed imports, exports, definitions, or expressions. 01:55:23 Need I go on? 01:56:46 arcfide: Remind me why I want to use them? 01:56:50 Generally, the R6RS's library system is a collection of compromises between multiple systems each of which had supporting rationale, but whose intersection is inexplicable as a system in its own right and unusable for any but the most basic usage, partly because its semantics is so hazily defined. 01:57:45 grettke: In all likelihood, you don't, except as a wrapper for making incorporation into other systems marginally easier. 01:58:15 According to one of the editors, they weren't really meant to be used by humans anyway, so much as employed as a `distribution format' (exact words, I think). 01:59:06 I see, wow. 01:59:11 Actually, some people take issue with them as having been designed too much with humans in mind, making them hard to automate. 01:59:46 Basically, this is why you don't try to make a universal module system. 02:00:56 That sentence, arcfide, would elevate the R6RS library system too much by suggesting that its existence has some merit in providing a lesson to anyone. 02:01:24 Riastradh: You don't think people will be convinced? 02:01:42 Or rather, you don't think it makes a good lesson? 02:02:10 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:02:50 I don't think it makes a good lesson, because many of the failures of its design were avoidable, and its effect, I suspect, will be to convince many who encounter it that the whole business of `phase separation' is far too confusing for anyone to spend time thinking about it (especially if the authors of the document couldn't figure out a sensible compromise). 02:03:45 Riastradh: out of curiosity, does MIT Scheme's REPL have the phase separation that Scheme48 exhibits? 02:04:22 So what is The Right Thing? Something has to be. 02:04:24 I sha'n't claim that understanding phase separation is exactly easy, but it is certainly much less muddled than the R6RS (and Chez and Ikarus) makes it seem. 02:04:29 jcowan: No. 02:04:57 arcfide, no. However, at the very least, it doesn't *pretend* to be principled, or apply bogus principles to yield bogus results. 02:05:06 Right. 02:05:33 Well, I don't think anyone claims Chez's REPL design was ever principled. 02:05:34 :-) 02:05:49 Isn't Aziz writing his dissertation on its principles...? 02:05:53 -!- alexbobp [n=liz@66.112.249.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:06:07 Sorry, libraries, not REPL. 02:07:00 Riastradh: Yes, Aziz is trying to demonstrate something about phasing being automatable. I don't know if he addresses whether such automation is desirable, though I would expect that he thinks it is, from talking to him. 02:07:34 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-19.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 02:07:35 I don't know whether he would consider implicit phasing a good thing outside of library imports though. 02:07:45 I'm going to ask him that. 02:08:00 To what else would `implicit phasing' apply? 02:08:04 (could) 02:08:21 Riastradh: For example, the REPL. 02:08:39 There phase separation elimination is probably more accurate though. 02:08:49 The REPL should make the best effort to reflect the semantics of permanent code. 02:08:50 Or maybe convolution. 02:09:24 I am pretty sure he doesn't think it's a good idea to meddle with phase inside the library body though. 02:10:01 That is, I think he wants people to have to use somethng like (META DEFINE ...) for procedures referenced in macro definitions, and not get the kind of behavior of jumping phase. 02:10:47 I have no objection to a (META DEFINE ...) construct. I don't know what the last clause of your sentence means. 02:11:31 Riastradh: in other words, getting the confusing phase elimination of Chez's REPL inside a (LET () ...). 02:11:45 Or, making the use of META unnecessary. 02:11:52 I think everyone knows this is wrong. 02:11:54 I hope. 02:12:09 Now I'm missing fragments of sentences and referents of pronouns. 02:12:33 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:12:45 *they know about it more than* 02:12:57 Riastradh: Simply, I do not think anyone things that (LET () (DEFINE FOO ...) (DEFINE-SYNTAX BAR ... FOO ...)) where FOO is outside of a SYNTAX is a good thing. 02:13:07 s/things/thinks 02:13:42 I thing it's a good think. 02:13:55 foof: My replacement was plural. 02:14:00 :-P 02:14:10 He things those're a good thinks. 02:14:27 *foof* is not as think as you drunk he is 02:14:44 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:16:02 good to know 02:16:20 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@APuteaux-155-1-100-164.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["aaaaaargh"] 02:19:31 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:22:50 You know, I'm afraid that I'm becoming more of a programming languages person than a cognitive scientist. Oh no! 02:24:48 Yeah. Oh no. 02:30:36 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:30:50 This is what I think phase separation is; someone correct me if I'm wrong, please: 02:31:01 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 02:32:33 you're wrong 02:32:37 it's more like this: 02:35:31 Procedures at phase k can only be written using macros that invoke procedures defined in earlier phases. 02:37:15 But what I can't remember is whethere earlier phases are lower or higher numbers. 02:38:02 The run-time of the final program is the lowest phase (or, the ground storey in the syntactic tower). 02:38:40 The phase in which the macros defined as part of that program, or any of its run-time dependencies, are run is the next higher phase (or the next storey in the syntactic tower). 02:38:40 -!- travisbemann is now known as travis|away 02:39:52 So primitive procedures are conceptually at phase \inf? 02:39:59 Huh? 02:41:14 A macro at phase 1 can't have a run-time dependency on a procedure defined at phase 0, right? 02:42:34 That's right; the procedures created at phase 0 don't exist when evaluation happens at phase 1 (of the same unit of code; e.g., the same library). 02:43:01 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:43:36 Primitive procedures (meaning those not defined in Scheme), therefore, are defined in a phase higher than any other phase. 02:46:25 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:47:04 I don't understand what libraries have to do with it. 02:47:28 foof: headed to greece tomorrow. 02:49:27 -!- FareWell [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:51:04 npe: awesome! 02:51:20 I'm going to Italy Nov 20-26. 02:51:31 cool. what are you going to get up to there? a conference? 02:51:44 No, just vacation. 02:52:21 Didn't go anywhere over the summer, and just realized that if I don't travel now, and end up employed in April, I won't have a chance until 2010. 02:53:23 true that. Are you looking anywhere for work yet? 02:56:39 (Sorry, I'm trying to figure out a bizarre network failure here.) 02:57:12 (A gateway near me has ceased to route packets to Verizon IP addresses, rendering the machine on which my IRC client is running unreachable.) 02:57:28 (...at least, to a certain subset of Verizon IP addresses (and maybe some non-Verizon ones as well).) 02:57:33 npe: Not yet, only just yesterday updated my resume. 02:57:58 Are you going to try and stay in kansai or head back to Tokyo? 02:59:37 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:59:40 I'm just looking around now to see what's available. I'd consider both, and might still stay in school. 03:00:17 Riastradh: ping 03:00:22 oh yeah, you don't have graduate if you don't want to do you? lol 03:00:25 I haven't had time to make any real startup progress though. 03:00:51 foof: hmmmm... I'd be interested in the Gifu thing. 03:00:54 jcowan: pong 03:01:10 Eric also mentioned something about a Mito grant. 03:01:18 foof: what's that? 03:01:46 Riastradh: Primitive procedures (meaning those not defined in Scheme), therefore, are defined in a phase higher than any other phase. 03:01:56 s/defined/written/1 03:02:14 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:02:28 npe: Dunno, need to look into it :) 03:02:49 But he said it's $50k to write "interesting" software. 03:03:07 jcowan, `define' is the wrong word here. `Exist' would be better; primitive procedures exist in the execution engine at any phase. 03:03:12 foof: sounds good to me. 03:03:46 brb need to get my clothes from the washer. 03:03:56 foof: oh yeah I got a brand new shannon webphone from 1998 03:04:16 jcowan, definitions have to do with associations in environments. Existence has to do with values which programs can operate on. 03:04:42 Riastradh: Which reduces to what I said: primitives conceptually exist at phase \inf and all later phases. 03:04:51 Yes. 03:07:37 foof: back 03:09:07 So what's going on in Greece? 03:09:13 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:17 foof: iwp9 03:09:43 ah 03:09:46 presenting? 03:09:50 yeah. 03:11:27 xz [n=ramana@c-98-228-42-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:13:42 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:13:54 What on? 03:13:57 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 03:14:18 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-14-108.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:14:30 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 03:15:31 sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 03:15:55 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-10-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:15:57 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 03:16:23 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:18:11 foof: I did a little morphological analysis framework in limbo. 03:18:14 I wish to make a mailing list type system that uses cryptographically signed messages to identify users and filter out spam. 03:18:37 it's not unique other than I used the method from early 2000 treating all languages as non segmented. 03:18:48 and then made the only variable parts the dictionary and path finding. 03:19:26 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:19:28 the main implementation problem in inferno is lack of a mmap(come to think of it, how do you deal with huge secondary storage data structures in your analyzer?) 03:19:37 I'm tired of all these rotten web BBSes, want something that actually works. 03:20:13 synx: Long live usenet. 03:20:32 arcfide: spam killed usenet too. 03:20:34 Not if Andrew Cuomo has anything to say about it. 03:20:40 Hehe. 03:20:49 synx: I don't have a problem with spam on Usenet at all. 03:21:37 arcfide: Really? Last I checked it was flooding everything of note in alt.* and thanks to the lame NNTP Path: algorithm completely untraceable. 03:22:14 npe: Will you have decent time for sightseeing? 03:22:18 synx: I don't think I've seen much more than one or two spam messages a week to the groups I frequent, some of which are the alt.* hierarchy. 03:22:34 foof: not really. 03:22:38 hmm... 03:22:45 thankfully all the flights on saturday were too early. 03:22:53 so I get saturday to mess around. 03:23:04 2 other guys have rented a car so we'll hang out Ii think 03:23:04 synx: I am cheating a bit, though, because I have a server that does a lot of filtering, apparently. 03:23:12 There's another problem with usenet. I can't afford to buy access to it... 03:23:18 synx: Hahaha. 03:23:26 arcfide: ah, that would help yeah. 03:23:38 synx: That's probably a bigger problem. 03:24:01 synx: I thought that only mattered if you wanted to download kitty porn? 03:24:15 otherwise use google groups. 03:24:20 Would someone *please* think of the kittens??! 03:24:24 npe: GG is terrible. 03:24:28 oy... 03:24:46 npe: The reason is I'm tired of all the lame web BBSes...like Google Groups. 03:25:09 arcfide: lol... how awfully unpc of you. don't you know that a cloud of crappy web interfaces is the future? 03:25:34 Implemented in PHP no doubt. 03:25:39 npe: I refuse. In fact, I have gone a little obsessive and converted my web site to a Gopher server. 03:25:47 npe: Implemented in Scheme, of course. 03:25:58 Clearly the distribution of kitten pornography is a serious danger to society, and must be stamped out of existence. 03:26:11 arcfide: then why aren't you on #gopher? 03:26:13 Riastradh: lol... I knew that meme would stick. 03:26:28 Riastradh: Well, that was Comcast's excuse for cutting out usenet service to all its customers...without reducing their bill. 03:26:36 npe: Why? Hehe, I get distracted enough on this channel. 03:26:41 No, synx, that wasn't Comcast's excuse. 03:26:44 arcfide: lol. 03:26:54 Oh it wasn't? 03:26:57 because that's where the gopher action is at. 03:27:07 npe: The purpose of me setting up the Gopher server was to remove the potential for distractions. 03:27:14 Some sort of porn think of the bunnies thing. 03:27:19 Comcast's excuse was: `The attorney general of New York is threatening us with costly litigation over an issue that most of our customers don't care about.' 03:28:08 litigation involving immoral acts with kittens? 03:28:10 I doubt whether anyone at Comcast actually cares about kitten pornography on Usenet, while I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers and business-types at Comcast who care about avoiding costly litigation. 03:28:29 http://www.futureofthebook.org/sivavaidhyanathan/archives/kitten103.jpg 03:28:43 I think they care about a lot of things...but they should reduce the bill if they're going to cut off service. 03:28:56 So we can buy our own access to usenet. 03:29:20 Cuomo's excuse, however, is that he is a demented brain case (and probably a felopaedophiliac one at that, considering what he is crusading most strongly about). 03:30:04 npe, watch it! You may be in Japan, but the attorney general of New York can still go after you with threats of litigation! 03:30:10 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:30:18 Riastradh: lol... do a whois 03:30:50 npe: On enough channels there? 03:30:58 arcfide: lol... no 03:31:06 Oh. Well, fine, you were in Japan last I looked at your hostname. But even Texas ain't safe from attorneys general of New York when kittens are on the line! 03:31:33 (unless ARIN is wrong about your address, too) 03:31:35 Riastradh: lol.... don't you know that texas is bevo porn? 03:31:44 Riastradh: nope in Texas till feb. 03:31:49 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 03:31:57 -!- sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 03:33:07 foof: a friend in NC just looked at my facebook profile pic and said "2cups1guy" 03:35:59 saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:36:13 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:39:48 Could someone with a subtle command of english expostulate on the difference between a smart-ass and a wise-ass; preferably with reference to #scheme-personae? 03:39:52 Videlicet: "e.g. offby1 is a smart-ass, but e.g. klutometis is a wise-ass." 03:40:41 Somehow I doubt whether Fowler has anything to say on the subject. 03:41:08 Too bad; neither does the OED. 03:41:45 (Alas, my copy of Fowler is presently a hundred miles distant.) 03:42:51 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:42:53 Riastradh: thanks for the tip; I think I'll pick up Fowler in preference to Strunk or even Chicago. 03:43:24 That's a little silly. Those are three different resources that serve three different purposes. 03:43:56 smart-asses are smarter 03:44:00 But with a name like, "The King's English;" how can you not aspire to universal applicability? 03:44:24 offby1`: but wise-asses are older; age before beauty 03:45:15 Fowler is a dictionary of English *usage*, i.e. the nuances, evolution, and relations of the words in the language. Strunk (& White) is a guide to the style of clear English composition. The Chicago Manual is a reference volume on a much broader range of subjects than merely the composition of English prose. 03:46:29 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 03:46:36 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:47:22 http://turbulence.org/spotlight/thinking/chess.html 03:47:35 For example, you won't find anything about bibliographical formatting in Fowler or Strunk; you won't find a discussion of the evolution and vestiges of the English subjunctive in Strunk or in the Chicago Manual; and you won't find a concise and fairly cohesive list of straightforward rules for composing clear prose in Fowler or the Chicago Manual. 03:49:03 And you won't find Fowler's entertaining and occasionally vitriolic wit in Strunk or in the Chicago Manual. 03:50:08 And yet the purposes are not entirely disjoint: Chicago has a section, for instance, on common solecisms; Fowler, on punctuation; Strunk, on the judicious use of humor, etc. 03:50:17 foof: that is freaky 03:50:36 It's reasonably strong for a javascript engine. 03:50:59 Gosh, of what use is a nearly blank, grey page...? 03:51:18 foof: did you kick its butt? 03:51:31 npe: of course :) 03:52:07 foof: heh 03:52:07 :) 03:53:09 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 03:53:17 pretty mate too: http://synthcode.com/chess.png 03:56:12 heh, blank in ff2.x 03:56:49 Oh wait... it was a Java applet, not Javascript, that makes more sense. 03:57:02 Mornin' 03:57:07 foof: lol... chrome isn7t that good yet? 03:58:00 Chess with minimax is *seriously* computationally intensive. 03:58:17 minimax? 03:58:27 Minimax algorithm. 03:58:51 just a little info before I get off my butt and google 03:59:15 ... probably the most obvious search algorithm for zero-sum games. 03:59:38 Just imagine how you'd choose your best move, considering all your opponents responses. 03:59:59 ... then imagine how he'd choose, considering your counter-responses. 04:00:02 aaaaah.... 04:00:04 And recurse ad infinitum. 04:00:32 And then built specialized hardware for it, and you can beat grandmasters :) 04:00:46 lol... deep blue! 04:00:59 deep stack 04:01:03 That's not seriously what Deep Blue was doing overall...? 04:01:07 (and people think AI has actually advanced in 50 years) 04:01:18 Riastradh: Yes, that's what Deep Blue was doing. 04:01:23 *Riastradh* blinks. 04:01:24 Okey. 04:01:28 With pruning and opening and endgame books. 04:01:37 Right. 04:02:35 It also used very, very tightly bummed C code, and cached positions. 04:02:52 But really nothing new. 04:03:00 :( chess 04:03:01 (Grandmaster singular.) 04:03:11 :) backgammon 04:03:50 foof: have you ever messed with cache line size? 04:03:58 nope 04:04:05 I've been learning lots of freaky things about architecture. 04:04:14 But read this: http://lbrandy.com/blog/2008/10/how-we-made-our-face-recognizer-25-times-faster/ 04:04:14 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5lv3kt 04:05:20 foof: yup that is what my bosses are running into. 04:06:20 He was getting a 7x slowdown just by aligning his variables on a different cache line. 04:10:09 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-112-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:17:18 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:23:13 http://www.conservapedia.com/Obama 04:23:25 "If elected, Obama would become the first person having ties to a known terrorist to gain control over America's atom bombs." 04:24:09 wow, the first person? really? 04:25:24 What about that evil terrorist G. Gordon Liddy and his association with members of the Republican Party? :P 04:25:29 synx: lol... I think manuel noreiga was a "freedom (drug) dealer" 04:25:45 I love conservapedia. 04:28:20 today I'm more interested in communication than elections really. 04:28:50 http://www.conservapedia.com/Kangaroo 04:29:01 According to the origins theory model used by young earth creation scientists, modern kangaroos are the descendants of the two founding members of the modern kangaroo baramin that were taken aboard Noah's Ark prior to the Great Flood. 04:29:32 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:29:34 who wants to be a baraminologist? 04:29:35 http://www.conservapedia.com/Baraminology 04:30:34 I would like to figure out what to do to help people out, so they'll help me in return. 04:31:04 ostensibly by communicating Usenet style, but with a system that protects from spam at the fundamental level. 04:31:17 In creation science, baraminology is a system for classifying life into groups having no common ancestry, called "baramins". 04:31:26 i've never heard of this before 04:31:45 I try not to think about it too much. 04:32:08 The idea of a baramin was proposed in 1941 by Frank Marsh, but was criticized for a lack of formal definition. In 1990 Kurt Wise and Walter ReMine introduced baraminology in pursuit of an acceptable definition.[8] ReMine's work specifies four groupings: holobaramins, monobaramins, apobaramins, and polybaramins. 04:32:15 holobaramins, that's an awesome name 04:33:46 Maybe there's something better to do than just sit around on IRC. 04:34:09 All I can find is stuff like "consulting" and "web services" stuff that doesn't help anyone. 04:34:41 maybe it does help people. It's just so intangible! 04:35:24 (define consulting consulting) 04:39:54 I'm going to go out tomorrow. I'm going to help people and work hard. And then when I'm all done I'll be in the exact same sucky situation as I was before. 04:40:50 -!- travis|away is now known as travisbemann 04:42:00 Tried soup kitchens? 04:42:48 life starts at the bottom of a whiskey bottle 04:43:28 Not starving at this point, just not improving. 04:43:39 I meant from the other direction, synx. 04:43:55 It's lame for me to talk about it on IRC, so I wish there were a more appropriate medium. 04:44:19 Riastradh: How would volunteering at a soup kitchen improve my lot in life? 04:44:27 I was joking. 04:44:28 That's what I'm doing tomorrow is volunteering. 04:45:23 oh okay 04:45:33 sorry my sense of humor is shot :) 04:46:12 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["sleep time is now"] 04:51:25 -!- nring [n=nring@CPE-124-191-37-233.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:55:07 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:55:27 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 05:03:29 synx: if you volunteer at a soup kitchen you get free food. 05:04:36 ... if you show up at a soup kitchen you get free food :) 05:04:43 really? huh... 05:04:58 might cut a meal off the grocery bill. 05:06:05 Only if you're...unemployed.. BUT STILL 05:06:06 Other people need to eat more than I do. 05:08:54 become a freegan 05:09:36 jonrafkind: Watch your language, there are children present! 05:10:19 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176221150.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:29 *johnnowak* whacks jonrafkind with a copy of Atlas Shrugged 05:11:35 im only 11 05:11:42 (in base 24) 05:12:05 now i'm not sure what to do. 05:13:01 give in to the dark side 05:15:30 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 05:26:20 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176218174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:19 -!- sili [n=sili@222.127.65.136] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:44:30 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:49:58 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.237.8] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:50:20 Volunteering is good. 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quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:44:15 brandelune [n=JC@pl157.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:45:40 -!- foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:52:42 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:59:28 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-166-102.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:00:22 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A05C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:02:09 *elf* ponders the nature of the universe. 10:02:11 oom. 10:07:09 -!- pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-1-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:09:51 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-253-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:12:52 *keyofnight* wishes he had gone python. 10:12:59 hm? 10:13:31 At least django has docs that support why it does what it does. :/ 10:14:23 I've been writing a blog for a week. I should at least have some rudimentary thing that adds to a database by now. Something. Not this piecemeal progress. 10:14:51 Sorry. Totally inappropriate for the channel. 10:15:04 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:16:46 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:18:19 schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 10:18:21 pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-1-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:19:10 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 10:21:18 elf: nothing like pondering natura universalis; especially under the noctial canopy; especially over against natura particularis 10:22:08 *elf* laughs. 10:23:07 *elf* ponders natura klutometem 10:23:43 heh 10:24:35 keyofnight: that's not scheme's fault; i'm sure the django-hordes will receive you with open arms ;) 10:24:54 why should you have chosen python, out of curiousity? 10:25:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 10:25:15 maybe he's thinking library support 10:25:35 can someone point a link to the role of the steering committee vs the role of the editors for the scheme standardisation process? 10:26:49 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 10:26:50 elf: do you really think they can steer the thing around? 10:27:00 theres no obvious link on the r6 site, nor on schemers.org 10:27:24 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:27:34 sphex [n=sphex@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 10:28:56 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 10:29:00 elf: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2155 10:29:12 with a choice quote from the ratification procedure 10:30:09 hm. 10:30:11 elf: because in writing ruby, I feel I'm at the mercy of someone who is not looking out for me. Every answer points to some obscure text in some obscure Rdoc somewhere written with the author in mind. Either that, or the answer is burried in some comment somewhere on Github, where users are developers and their chatter clouds up whatever joy I might have gotten out of code. :P 10:30:41 keyofnight: oh, so you didn't do it in scheme? 10:30:46 oke, so thats why you shouldnt use ruby... 10:30:52 but i dont see how this relates to scheme? 10:31:26 elf: it certainly doesn't. Hence "totally inappropriate for the channel." 10:31:28 lol 10:31:56 elf: weird; did lambda-the-ultimate.org just die for you, too? 10:32:00 ah, sorry, i missed that line :) 10:32:11 klutometis: no, it just didnt answer the question. i only was on it for a sec. 10:32:31 youre writing a blog in ruby? 10:32:45 yeah. 10:32:58 that sounds... marvelous. 10:32:59 I suppose this is where I'm told to write it in scheme. heheh 10:33:02 if youre a masochist. 10:33:16 it's all an uphill battle. 10:33:34 i would have written it in scheme, but thats just me :) 10:33:42 code in general. not even sure I should be doing it at all.. hahah 10:33:42 i can tell you to write it in scheme, but it wont do much good :) 10:34:00 I just lurk hoping to pick up something. 10:34:38 elf: that the editors submit the standard and the steerers review it, isn't enough detail? 10:35:01 so how do the editors get picked? 10:35:05 and what else does the steering committee do? 10:35:07 if anything? 10:35:12 http://www.r6rs.org/ratification/ 10:35:18 that's r6rs, though 10:35:26 they have a role other than ratification, i thought. 10:35:32 has some tidbits about removing voters, etc. 10:35:49 i vaguely remember something pre-r6 about their roles in the review process. 10:36:31 hmm; maybe you can pull something out of the mail archives 10:36:35 i'd be curious, too 10:37:04 maybe someone will respond to my question on r6discuss list and post a complete document before the whole process for determining the committee goes through. 10:37:10 its kinda relevant to have this data. 10:37:29 keyofnight: pick up what kind of thing? 10:37:43 code in general is an uphill battle? 10:37:52 as in youre trying to determine if you should go into coding ? or ? 10:38:25 I've been trying to learn for years, and it just doesn't seem to click. 10:38:28 hrm. 10:38:52 how many years? and how much time have you put into it? 10:39:27 Well.. admittedly, I've not put as much time into it as I should. I'm working on it now, and I wonder how anyone does it. heheh. 10:39:40 I think 10 years? 10:39:40 m. 10:39:43 That sounds right. 10:39:51 not very long, then. 10:39:56 No? 10:40:02 *elf* shrugs. 10:40:08 10 years is nothing. :) 10:40:10 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 10:40:20 especially if you havent been doing it fulltime for 10 years. 10:40:23 I know kids who can code circles around me after 6 months. 10:40:33 papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has joined #scheme 10:40:35 Oops, silly me, I strayed into column 80, causing Emacs to segfault :/ 10:40:35 how much time do they put into it? 10:40:35 But you're right... time invested. 10:40:41 aye. 10:40:48 foof: What a silly thing to do 10:40:58 -!- sphex_ [n=sphex@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:45 emacs: every margin access column segfaults 10:42:09 :) 10:43:23 -!- echo-area [n=user@cmdev1.test.cnz.alimama.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:44:19 cky [n=cky@202-74-219-83.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:44:29 mornin cky 10:44:41 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1a05429c4328697d] has joined #scheme 10:46:22 Those margins are in a really high memory region. 10:49:00 elf: Heya! 11:09:41 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:12:23 whassup, mr cky? 11:12:54 Not too much, just answered this question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/242697/do-stdout-output-with-specific-speed :-) 11:12:55 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6g889e 11:13:00 What's new with you, elf? 11:13:23 havent died recently. moving into an apt next week. 11:13:38 how about you? 11:14:11 Yay for finding an apartment! Hope the move goes well. 11:14:19 thanks. 11:14:29 Me, I'm just getting used to my new job (it's going pretty well). :-) 11:14:32 hrm, you cant pipe data at specific rates particularly easily. 11:15:03 I figured you can, but I thought I'd try my hand at a no-frills C solution, just for fun. :-) 11:15:19 theres limits to how much can go into a pipe at os level in linux, so you have the write, which may block, the read, with a max limit of usefulness, and the os regulation. 11:15:54 Yep, true. 11:16:03 *cky* read your "cant" as "can", sorry. :-P 11:16:35 It's true that you can't stop the OS slowing your writing down. However, the exercise is in artificially slowing down the writing. :-) 11:17:37 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-166-102.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:18:09 i thought the exercise was to pipe at a specific rate. 11:18:35 It is, but only at a very rough level. 11:18:36 if you get rid of the pipe, you should be able to write at specific rates fairly easily. 11:18:46 The OP didn't care if a burst came, then a big wait, then another big burst. 11:18:47 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-166-102.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:19:09 yes, but its not possible to regulate beyond very specific limits with pipes. 11:19:20 due to the pipe size restriction. 11:19:50 True. Maybe I'll advise the OP to use tcpclient instead of piping to netcat. 11:20:03 *klutometis* really wants to like stackoverflow.com; but is irritated that they wrote it in .NET, for some reason 11:20:40 What tcpclient does is simply associate the socket as an FD (6 and 7 for reading and writing, respectively, if I remember right). No pipes involved. 11:21:03 klutometis: Hahahaha. 11:21:15 You mean the framework they use decides for you how much you like it? :-P 11:21:17 m, i would just write a small c app to connect to the socket directly. 11:21:50 That works too, though that might double the size of my sample code. :-P 11:21:55 then you still have limits due to packetsize and whatnot, but theyre more reasonable. its only when you want to stresstest beyond a few thousand connects per sec that it falls down. 11:22:12 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-122.naist.jp] has quit [] 11:24:56 Yep, true. Okay. I'll make a comment to that effect. :-) 11:27:57 cky: i try not to be a framework snob; but the choice of frameworks has a subtle effect on the look-and-feel of the joint 11:28:05 almost like a sapir-whorf of frameworks 11:28:15 Hahaha, nice. 11:28:33 So let me guess, you prefer continuation-based frameworks? :-) 11:28:46 heh 11:28:54 Or what kind of Sapir-Whorf effect are you talking about, as far as frameworks are concerned? 11:29:11 i.e., what does ASP.NET MVC not let you do that could affect the look-and-feel of the site? 11:30:57 i don't understand it in the negative, i.e. what .net doesn't let you do; but positively: .net's verbose nature created a verbose aesthetic 11:31:21 there's an overabundance of boxes and side boxes and faux-buttons ... 11:31:37 weird tag-diarrhea 11:31:55 it looks like crap in text-only mode. 11:31:58 which is what i browse in. 11:32:04 and a bunch of the links dont work. 11:32:44 elf: same here; MCMXCII-style 11:33:48 Heh, Jeff Atwood meant for the site to work well in simple browsers; obviously something has failed there. 11:34:07 asp.net never works in simple browsers. 11:34:11 ever ever. 11:34:11 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-45-204.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 11:34:17 at best it will work and be hideous looking. 11:34:20 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-45-204.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:34:20 normally it wont work. 11:34:27 Ah. :-) 11:35:06 I can't comment on the verbose aesthetic and its links to .NET, but that's more because I have no aesthetic sense. :-P 11:35:13 heh. 11:35:24 i must go as the gf is yelling about the typing noise. back later. gnight all. 11:35:29 Have fun! 11:35:58 cky: aesthetics aside, it's actually a pretty useful site; do you lurk there often? 11:36:08 -!- keyofnight [n=key@ec2-75-101-138-129.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit ["leaving"] 11:36:47 I did, for the last three months. 11:37:00 However, now that I have a fulltime job, I don't have the time to hang out there as often as I like. 11:37:22 If you use the site a lot, you may be interested in the #stackoverflow channel, where there is a bot announcing new questions. 11:38:43 nice; i notice sicp gets about 60 hits 11:40:20 Hmm, a tag search seems to reveal only two questions with tag sicp.... 11:41:23 I guess there are lots of _answers_ discussing SICP, but not so many questions doing same. :-) 11:42:44 i guess #scheme is still relevant after all ;) 11:43:48 Oh, totally. 11:44:32 I think more and more people are starting to get Scheme-like concepts (at least dynamic typing, lexical scoping, and closures) from languages like JS or, well, any of the modern dynamic languages that more and more people use. 11:44:34 :-) 11:45:44 I would like to see tail recursion and continuations go into the next revision of JS. That will mean lots more programmers will make contact with those concepts. 11:47:35 Macros are another story. :-P 11:58:37 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 12:15:16 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@ZQ062141.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 12:16:36 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 12:26:25 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:17 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:28:36 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 12:36:37 -!- mheld_ [n=mheld@pool-141-154-251-146.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 12:42:37 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:43:21 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 12:43:26 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 12:43:30 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 12:43:37 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 12:44:33 hemulen_ [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:46:14 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1a05429c4328697d] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:57:31 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 12:58:05 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 12:59:42 hyperspace189 [n=hyperspa@216.16.236.2] has joined #scheme 13:01:52 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:04:44 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.14.208.195] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:06:12 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 13:10:33 cky you mean tail call optimization? 13:10:52 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:11:07 Axioplase [n=Pied@APuteaux-155-1-100-164.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:12:40 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:12:52 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 13:14:21 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 13:15:25 JS needs coroutines 13:16:33 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:18:38 write your JS in CPS form. 13:20:45 -!- noclouds [n=mhfan@61.190.36.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:21:01 -!- hemulen_ is now known as hemulen 13:26:47 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["exi"] 13:27:47 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:00 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 13:33:37 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 13:35:04 mr_ank_ [n=ank@220-244-42-72.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 13:36:32 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 13:38:47 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 13:40:12 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["¬"] 13:40:49 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:43:10 -!- lukeparrish [n=opera@74-36-210-33.dr01.hmdl.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:46:10 -!- papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:34 -!- mr_ank [n=ank@220-244-42-72.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:48:29 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:48:38 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 13:48:44 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00:19 cracki [n=cracki@43-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 14:01:00 sreeram [n=sreeram@61.247.251.10] has joined #scheme 14:09:58 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:16:13 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:18:59 -!- merlincorey [n=merlin@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:26 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@61.247.251.10] has quit [] 14:19:43 sreeram [n=sreeram@61.247.251.10] has joined #scheme 14:21:06 -!- hyperspace189 [n=hyperspa@216.16.236.2] has left #scheme 14:24:57 vkm [n=vkm@EVIL-DEMON.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 14:25:37 How can I make mzscheme adopt the language conventions of drscheme when the "Pretty Big" language is selected - and, in particular, support IF forms that don't have alternates? 14:26:01 Bonus points if I can do this using a preamble to the scheme files I instruct mzscheme to (LOAD ...). 14:26:25 You use the module system, not LOAD. 14:27:16 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-24-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:28:38 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-4-40.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:28:55 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 14:29:14 Is that the only way to do this? I'm working under a hard time constraint, and would prefer to avoid having to learn about the PLT module system and then restructure my program if I can possibly avoid it. 14:30:00 I found some evidence that there used to be a #lang directive, but the documentation I've seen on it appears a bit inconsistent (and possibly out of date). 14:31:07 It is the only sensible way to organize a program. You don't, however, need to dramatically restructure all your code. You can just add a separate file for a module declaration (one will suffice; you can also make several to separate the components to a finer grain) which will use the INCLUDE macro to refer to your original code. 14:32:12 (Also, if I'm not mistaken, `Pretty Big' is now archaic in PLT v4.) 14:32:33 Yes, it's kept for legacy. 14:32:50 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-10fcc671d5dcf57a] has joined #scheme 14:33:08 vkm: Specifically, if you want the backward-compatible language that allows one-armed `if's, use `#lang mzscheme' 14:33:28 (But even if the language allows them, they're not a good idea.) 14:33:35 I have to disagree on 'only', though it's certainly one reasonable way. In this case, I happen to have a little recursive program that crunches a bunch of numbers and I'd like to run it a lot with as little overhead as possible. 14:34:07 eli: Thanks. (Re one-armed: yeah, it's frustrating, but, time constraints.) 14:34:16 (Implied in my sentence was that the program were a PLT Scheme program.) 14:34:57 vkm: you can quickly replace them with `when's. 14:35:46 And re the module overhead -- if you refer to runtime, then using a module will speed things up. 14:36:33 No, I meant the programming and readibility overhead - time for me now (to relearn it), time for a couple collaborators to deal with it (when, like me, they tend to take a R4 or maybe R5 view of scheme). 14:36:52 When I've developed larger PLT programs in the past I've definitely used (earlier versions of) it. 14:39:36 npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has joined #scheme 14:39:50 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:40:19 At the very least, if you create one module for all your code, you can easily control what view of Scheme all your code will get. 14:41:04 It won't improve the organization of your code, but it will tell MzScheme that you want a specific view of Scheme, rather than whatever is currently most fashionable as the default in the PLT world. 14:41:14 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-10fcc671d5dcf57a] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:43:15 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0befc2b1ae2b1ef8] has joined #scheme 14:43:34 ... and it looks like I'll probably have to switch to WHEN s anyways, since switching the language to mzscheme is causing all kinds of dependency hell - perhaps unsurprisingly, since I'm not doing things The Way I'm Supposed To. 14:46:35 vkm: Like what? 14:47:17 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:48:15 vkm: If you somehow are in the weird position that your code relies on the newer languages but still uses one-armed if's then the easiest solution (in terms of getting things to work quickly) is to redefine `if' as a macro that allows the one-armed-ness. 14:48:35 The simplest way to get that is probably (require (only-in mzscheme if)). 14:49:16 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 14:50:06 (only-in new-york) 14:50:11 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 14:51:05 eli: Rock on. Thanks much! 14:52:37 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has quit ["bbl"] 14:52:46 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-35.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 14:53:40 -!- cracki [n=cracki@43-016.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Success] 14:55:34 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:58:45 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:01:37 rudybot_: eval (only-in new-york) 15:01:41 eli: error: eval:1:0: only-in: illegal use of syntax in: (only-in new-york) 15:01:51 offby1: ThereYouGo. 15:02:04 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:03:09 mike_ [n=mike@p54A1D40B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:03:41 -!- mike_ [n=mike@p54A1D40B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:10:47 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:15:11 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:16:28 yawn 15:19:44 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0befc2b1ae2b1ef8] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:22:07 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@119.96.9.0] has joined #scheme 15:25:09 *leppie* wonders why everyone dislike R6RS libraries so much, can anyone give a concrete example where it 'fails'? 15:25:58 tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #scheme 15:26:12 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 15:29:21 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless183.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:29:42 merlincorey [n=merlin@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:18 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:15 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 15:31:25 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 15:34:25 wtf? why wont my replies show up on comp.lang.scheme? 15:39:14 sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-94-11.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:10 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 15:46:04 -!- pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-1-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:46:15 haha 15:47:04 i changed to another ISP because of that ISP's terrible shaping/service 15:48:30 sladegen: ping 15:54:49 pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-1-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:55:43 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit ["Smoove out."] 15:57:01 ejs [n=eugen@139-193-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 16:04:31 huyslogic [n=Huy@192.206.112.168] has joined #scheme 16:04:43 are there libraries for connecting to an Oracle database? 16:05:22 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:06:19 huyslogic: what scheme? 16:06:25 plt-scheme 16:06:32 i'm open to other schemes i suppose 16:06:35 *rmrfchik* knew it ;) 16:06:45 did you check plt-scheme.org? 16:06:49 plt scheme seems to be the largest scheme 16:06:58 yeah i just see something under srfi for postgres 16:07:04 in our project, we use OCI exposed in scm 16:07:20 ...and we use postgres as well 16:07:35 the scm interface is the same for both dbms 16:07:36 oracle is not my choice, we have this existing db 16:07:49 i just need to perform the queries 16:08:12 how do you have oci exposed? 16:08:31 you are not using plt? 16:08:41 mzscheme 16:08:45 plt, indeed 16:08:47 nod 16:09:02 huyslogic: something like a db interface wouldn't be part of the SRFIs 16:09:10 wait how do you go about this 16:09:13 huyslogic: we just wrote an extension 16:09:20 huyslogic: if you're using PLT, you probably wanna look into Planet 16:09:20 darn i'm too new at scheme to do this 16:09:33 __name__ [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 16:10:25 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 16:10:50 i'm not sure I can give away the lib :( 16:10:55 i understand 16:11:06 i have a project that i'll probably do in python + django 16:11:15 I can give you a hint, if u need 16:11:27 okay hints are cool 16:12:03 (: 16:12:58 hmm, I mean, I can paste piece of code 16:13:31 can you pm me? 16:13:32 papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has joined #scheme 16:19:35 rmrfchik, hey dude, nice to see you here 16:19:55 hey! 16:20:08 i'm alwyas hunging here ;) 16:20:32 so am I last couple of weeks 16:20:42 :-) 16:21:04 welcome to the FP world ;) 16:21:21 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:40 rmrfchik, hooray ;-) 16:22:04 have to go, bye 16:22:18 see you 16:23:34 -!- papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:24:42 -!- huyslogic [n=Huy@192.206.112.168] has left #scheme 16:38:30 -!- npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has quit [] 16:39:33 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-94-11.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:45:11 pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has joined #scheme 16:48:54 -!- 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[n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:07:29 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:08:30 Jarv2 [n=Jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:10:06 saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:10:38 npe [i=npe@dhcp65-74-212-57.airport.aus.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:32 -!- Jarvellis [n=Jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:12:09 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 19:12:45 yakov2 [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #scheme 19:13:12 I'm using DrScheme and I'm wondering which lang pack I need to use to get the "print" procedure 19:15:54 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 19:18:15 I'm currently using "Essentials of programming languages" and I get the error "undefined identifier: print" 19:18:59 do you want to use essentials of programming languages? 19:19:04 or do you just want to use print 19:19:21 Not necessarily 19:19:21 if you use the module language and put #lang scheme at the top then you can use print 19:19:29 oh okay 19:19:35 does that contain most stuff or? 19:19:44 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/search/index.html?q=print 19:19:50 yes, #lang scheme contanis a bunch of stuff 19:19:57 okay, cheers 19:20:00 anything you want to look for just look in that search page 19:20:06 if it lists scheme as the module then its in scheme 19:20:26 okay cheers :) 19:23:10 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:28:07 -!- npe [i=npe@dhcp65-74-212-57.airport.aus.wayport.net] has quit [No route to host] 19:28:28 npe [i=npe@dhcp65-74-212-57.airport.aus.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 19:29:46 -!- npe [i=npe@dhcp65-74-212-57.airport.aus.wayport.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:22 npe [i=npe@dhcp65-74-212-57.airport.aus.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:47 -!- npe [i=npe@dhcp65-74-212-57.airport.aus.wayport.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:38 -!- errordeveloper 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closed the connection] 22:41:51 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:43:24 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 22:47:15 npe [n=npe@69.150.142.131] has joined #scheme 22:55:02 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:58:19 BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.214.139.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 22:58:20 mr_ank [n=ank@220-244-42-72.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 22:58:24 rudybot: eval (letrec ((five 5 ) (hello five )) code) 22:58:28 rudybot: eval '(letrec ((five 5 ) (hello five )) code) 22:58:49 wops, code shouldn't eval 23:06:10 rudybot: eval error 23:06:16 is it alive? 23:06:28 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-156-92-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:06:28 rudybot seen rudybot 23:07:44 rudybot WHERE ARE YOU? 23:07:49 rudybot_: quote 23:07:49 chandler: I'll read you. 23:10:37 -!- mr_ank_ [n=ank@220-244-42-72.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:27 rudybot_: seen rudybot 23:11:28 xz: rudybot was seen quitting in/on li11-10.members.linode.com eight weeks, six days ago, saying "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)", and then rudybot was seen quitting in/on li11-10.members.linode.com one day ago, saying "Remote closed the connection" 23:11:51 rudybot_: seen _rudybot 23:11:51 xz: No sign of _rudybot 23:12:00 rudybot_: seen rudybot_ 23:12:00 xz: rudybot was seen quitting in/on li11-10.members.linode.com eight weeks, six days ago, saying "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)", and then rudybot was seen quitting in/on li11-10.members.linode.com one day ago, saying "Remote closed the connection" 23:12:09 hmm 23:14:37 rudybot_: who is responsible? 23:15:57 dum de dum 23:16:08 what's going on? 23:16:17 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:20:20 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 23:20:48 Adamant 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[n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:43:12 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:44:19 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055672.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:46:07 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@APuteaux-155-1-100-164.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["leaving"] 23:47:17 Axioplase [n=Pied@APuteaux-155-1-100-164.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 23:49:21 keyofnight: it's a little embarrassing the way dizzy gillespie goes into a boy-like falsetto for "peanuts" 23:50:34 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:51:05 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-236-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:09 -!- aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]