00:02:19 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 00:03:52 bal -> ( bal ) | ( unbal ] 00:04:01 unbal -> ( unbal | bal 00:04:22 Thanks. I'll look at that. 00:05:11 Any comments on my three questions on #lisp? 00:06:12 Hrm.... 00:06:46 *chandler* just noticed that 00:06:50 *arcfide* starts to ponder the right tty to use for his rfcomm_sppd program. 00:09:03 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:09:37 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:14:53 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:16:27 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:38 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.211.123.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:23 raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 00:19:05 a-s [i=root@93.112.77.64] has joined #scheme 00:25:23 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 00:26:18 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:27:20 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:28:08 npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has joined #scheme 00:28:09 arcfide: any progress on the mother-of-all-scheme-repositories? 00:28:52 klutometis: Yes, some progress, but mostly in scoping, ideas, direction, and the like. I haven't had the time to implement it. 00:31:32 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has left #scheme 00:34:16 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 00:34:53 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133117089.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:36:25 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:36:45 Klutometis: Unfortunately, it has become rather busy for me. I never did expect to have a lot of time to work on the Coop. 00:37:00 However, I did manage to populate my gopher server. :-) 00:37:10 So we are making progress towards that end. 00:41:32 great 00:52:32 foof: you around? 00:52:58 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:59:33 -!- raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:03:21 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 01:03:58 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:11:59 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:12:59 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:39 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless318.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:00 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 01:26:47 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:05 subversus [n=elliot@corecrusher.angrycoder.org] has joined #scheme 01:31:56 -!- subversus [n=elliot@corecrusher.angrycoder.org] has quit [Client Quit] 01:33:47 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 01:34:59 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:35:06 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:39:04 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-227-32.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 01:42:55 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:47:28 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:50:01 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:50:22 Piranha__ [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #scheme 01:51:23 -!- Piranha__ [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has left #scheme 01:56:21 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:57:11 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:17 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-219-83.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:00:32 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 02:02:00 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 02:02:24 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:13:15 -!- mejja [n=user@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:18:00 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #scheme 02:23:27 seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 02:23:48 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- duncanm_ [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- Poeir_ [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- mopped [i=3lliott@user.custhost.se] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:48 -!- pjdelport [n=pjd@ampere.divmod.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:23:59 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:24:33 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 duncanm_ [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 Poeir_ [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 mopped [i=3lliott@user.custhost.se] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 02:24:33 pjdelport [n=pjd@ampere.divmod.com] has joined #scheme 02:26:01 npe: hey 02:26:27 duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 02:26:41 How's naist? 02:27:04 OK 02:27:11 I've got to get to work on my thesis. 02:27:21 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:27:35 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:27:54 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:28:20 Don't you still have 6+ months? 02:28:38 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- mopped [i=3lliott@user.custhost.se] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- Poeir_ [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- duncanm_ [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- pjdelport [n=pjd@ampere.divmod.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:28:38 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:29:22 _p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 02:29:22 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:29:22 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 02:29:22 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:29:22 Poeir_ [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:29:22 mopped [i=3lliott@user.custhost.se] has joined #scheme 02:29:22 set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 02:29:22 pjdelport [n=pjd@ampere.divmod.com] has joined #scheme 02:29:42 I think the first draft is due in January? But I don't want to put it off until the last minute. 02:30:02 foof: aaah but that's only for the spring folks right? 02:30:05 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 02:30:07 you came in the fall. 02:30:14 I plan to graduate in the Spring. 02:30:54 lol... trying to ditch us are you? 02:31:18 Speaking of which, when are you coming back? You're signed up for kenkyuukai in November. 02:31:32 lol... 02:31:41 that's not happening. 02:32:03 My ticket is feb 1st 02:37:59 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:43:07 -!- set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:43:11 echo-area [n=user@cmdev1.test.cnz.alimama.com] has joined #scheme 02:43:46 -!- sili [n=sili@121.96.161.215] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:45:56 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:47:28 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:53:53 Vi^3PirePengy [n=orangero@71-220-29-23.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 02:55:12 does anyone know were i can possibly find a cobol irc channel 02:56:06 I don't think COBOL and IRC go together, I honestly can't think of one 02:57:14 AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has joined #scheme 02:58:56 i dont seem to find one either Adamant 03:06:28 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:06:37 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 03:17:15 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:23:05 Vi^3PirePengy: http://fr.irc-monitor.com/channels-directory-224994 03:23:50 #cobol on irc.synirc.net 03:25:11 kk ill check it out klutometis.. ty 03:26:04 -!- Vi^3PirePengy [n=orangero@71-220-29-23.mpls.qwest.net] has left #scheme 03:34:01 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:38:25 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:34 christ: i wonder what the cats are like at #cobol (you thought #ada was bad) 03:42:16 give them prune juice for regularity and I'm sure they're fine to be around 03:53:34 heh 03:55:34 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-254-191-148.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:56:37 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bedtime"] 03:57:23 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:06:03 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:13:56 So, in order to get an existing commandline bluetooth serial emulator to work as a subprocess to my Scheme program, I had to actually write a patch for it. Bleh. 04:14:21 Who on earth doesn't expect a CLI serial emulator to be used on something other than a TTY? 04:14:26 strange.. praying usually works just as well 04:14:36 arcfide, talk to Rob Landley about that. 04:14:44 gnomon: Who is he? 04:14:54 At any rate, the fix was relatively easy, so it's working now. 04:15:16 I sent the patch upstream, which made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 04:15:24 Until they tear down my patch as useless. :-) 04:15:26 Or wrong. 04:15:41 (one of the early Busybox developers; a common kernel contributor; tcc compiler hacker; currently reimplementing a busybox workalike for political and licensing reasons) 04:15:51 everyone likes to bag on COBOL, but almost nobody I know seems to think there's any problem with using SQL for database queries. 04:16:15 There's nothing wrong with using SQL to perform relational lookups. 04:16:22 synx: Database queries in general are yucky. 04:16:32 Using SQL to pull data in what is essentially a glorified log format wastes everyone's time. 04:17:10 Long live flat file DBs! 04:17:15 Alright, that's enough of that. 04:17:18 I'm off to goof. 04:17:21 I just had to rant. 04:17:23 See y'all. 04:17:28 *eli* +1s arcfide 04:17:53 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-209-18.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:17:54 -!- hellues [n=hellues@78.183.204.79] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:18:33 hellues [n=hellues@85.96.6.193] has joined #scheme 04:27:49 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176206146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:28:11 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176218022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:30:56 -!- ivan [n=ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has left #scheme 04:31:07 rudybot: eval (display "yes, eli; I'm still up") 04:31:07 offby1: ; stdout: "yes, eli; I'm still up" 04:31:11 -!- nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:31:13 good boy 04:36:29 *eli* pets rudybot 04:37:47 hey, that's blue, white, and red, on my screen 04:37:58 "eli" is blue, "pets" is white, "rudybot" is red. 04:38:07 Odd. 04:38:53 yes, three is indeed odd 04:38:54 prime, too 04:39:29 *eli* throws a purple hat on rudybot 04:39:47 oh, I guess everything you say in a "/me", by default, is white. 04:40:08 Everything she says is a lie, including "and" and "the". -- Mary McCarthy on Lillian Hellman 04:40:22 alas, all I know of this "Mary McCarthy" is that quote 04:41:31 -!- npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has quit [] 04:42:25 offby1: Wikipedia is always there, ready to suck your time on stuff you didn't really care to know. 04:43:09 Down to the fact that she must have used chopsticks as toothpicks. 04:44:19 mm hm 04:44:35 something tells me I'd rather not look at her picture. 04:45:28 :) 04:45:35 ha! she's from Seattle. 04:46:08 her granpa founded Preston, Gates, & Ellis! 04:46:21 synx: SQL is still being used in new development. COBOL isn't. there's a reason for that. 04:47:02 Adamant: So SQL is basically COBOL2 then amirite 04:47:25 no 04:47:36 one is a overly wordy programming language 04:48:00 the other is just a OK way to specify database records and do searches 04:49:04 -!- ineiros [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:49:24 All I ask is to be able to tell what is an argument of what. And to have sane inline string formats. 04:49:24 (select '* (from "table") (where (= 'column 42))) 04:49:26 or something. 04:49:31 Adamant, I'm afraid that's just not true: COBOL is still being used to write new code daily in any number of large financial institutions, and not a few medical ones. 04:49:38 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:49:48 It's unpleasant, but it's real. 04:49:59 gnomon: but it primarily interacts with existing COBOL code right? 04:50:12 ergo, it's legacy and not really "new" 04:50:23 Stuff like how A INNER JOIN B INNER JOIN C is A INNER JOIN (B INNER JOIN C) but not (A INNER JOIN B) INNER JOIN C is really confusing. 04:50:24 It primarily interacts with existing data sets. 04:55:42 morning gnomon 04:57:15 Good morning, igli! 04:57:16 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:57:27 how are you, sir? ;) 04:58:18 A bit annoyed, a bit chilly at the tips, about to enjoy a cup of coffee of monstrous proportions and a spinach danish alongside, and revving it to dive into some C code. And yourself? 04:59:39 i need bigger cups... 04:59:43 coffee and danish? at midnight? 04:59:45 buckets maybe 04:59:54 offby1, I'm on the 2300h-0700h shift until Monday. 04:59:57 heh yeah about to have a cup of tea and a smoke 05:00:52 gnomon: what the f*** did you do? 05:01:10 I came to work for a team that started two bodies short and then lost two more. 05:01:14 awww 05:01:34 *gnomon* shrugs 05:01:39 I knew what I was getting into, mostly. 05:05:21 I bet you're working for ITA, or one of those companies with two of the four Lisp jobs in North America :-| 05:05:24 *offby1* seethes with envy 05:05:35 HAR 05:05:42 I know I "shouldn't worry" about it but can some explain to me how in http://paste.lisp.org/display/68992#1 get-bigloo-var ever gets called by bigloo-version? (i've read about quasi-quotation and not much else) if it's something i need to wait a while for, fair enough. 05:06:14 intartubes be slow today 05:06:31 heh 05:06:39 no effing idea. 05:06:47 too many backticks and whatnot 05:07:11 eh? there's only one afaict, but np 05:07:24 gnomon: you're right, C is more fun ;) 05:08:11 More fun that Perl, certainly. 05:08:28 heh definitely 05:10:30 have to admit i quite like perl tho, unlikely as i am to use it much 05:10:55 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A11A6.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:13:20 perl was my primary language at one point. Even did a bunch of mod_perl apache stuff with it. 05:13:26 me too 05:13:32 not the mod_perl; just "primary language" 05:15:56 mod_perl was interesting. I've been drifting away from being a big fan of "teh web" though. 05:16:59 apache is a giant kitchen sink server, and firefox is a giant kitchen sink browser. I have less headaches avoiding those and writing my protocol to be precisely what I need instead. 05:17:35 lighty is quite nice; fcgi protocol is cool imo (haven't coded it yet mind) 05:19:00 lighty is okay. fcgi kind of bugs me though, because it's hard to understand how it compartmentalizes things. 05:23:02 authoriser and content? (i think there was another one) 05:23:17 "firefox is a giant kitchen sink browser". Ha. Not disputing that, but recall that it was created as a reaction to the bloat of Mozilla 05:25:32 ah filter 05:31:35 I still have hope for Firefox. If nothing else, I love how Tracemonkey, V8 and SquirrelFish are introducing a new generation of coders to an environment wherein a dynamic language is backed by an optimizing compiler (or at least a JIT). Who knows? In a few more revisions, details of the compiler may actually be exposed to the runtime environment! 05:33:27 tsk tsk tsk 05:34:23 heh a scheme browser would be fun (is there one?) 05:35:02 Well, http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/ 05:35:29 ooh 05:36:04 experimental TeX-like paragraph formatting and hyphenation support # sounds fun 05:37:34 I believe that Opera Mobile also supports some form of auto-hyphenation; or perhaps I am thinking of another mobile browser. 05:38:29 i'd _love_ a browser that groks TeX 05:40:39 Ever looked at Amaya? It translated HTML and CSS positional markup into an internal layout-based markup language which shared not few features with TeX. 05:41:22 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:42:37 oh? only heard of it as a compliance checker iirc 05:43:05 i just think tex combined with CSS could be really sweet 05:43:57 you'd lose styling on P in easy case, but I don't see that as a major issue 05:44:10 (well class or id) 05:45:17 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:47:11 Isn't TeX kind of... complicated? I mean... even LaTeX is hard to create unusual documents in, and I think some things are hard coded like the notion of "page". 05:47:20 paper size and the like. 05:48:20 well those are in document class declaration and preamble/included stuff. markup itself is pretty simple (tho i don't like using {} personally) 05:49:22 "document class declaration" so, no need for CSS then? 05:50:18 "markup itself is pretty simple" -- ha! 05:50:27 I wouldn't mind TeX support, maybe the way the "Adobe" PDF support works. 05:50:31 no, CSS is a lot nicer to work with imo so it's still needed 05:50:40 igli: You couldn't be farther away from "simple". 05:51:01 The character-set issues alone are crippling. 05:51:13 HTML is pretty nice to work with. :p I don't see TeX as out-gunning it. 05:51:27 eli: it's easier to parse than sgml-based stuff imo 05:51:56 HTML is ok, i've worked with it loads. i just prefer LaTeX 05:52:19 It's most definitely not. TeX macros can redefine how the text that follows is parsed. 05:52:32 So to "parse" a TeX file, you actually need to run it. 05:52:40 yeah so simplify; ok it's a lot easier to read then ;) 05:53:02 In that case you're no longer talking about TeX. 05:53:22 igli, that's like talking about PostScript with all the executable bits removed. It doesn't make sense. 05:53:28 not exactly no; after all we're talking about grafting in CSS so it's not the same thing in any case. just the API 05:53:33 sili [n=sili@222.127.117.92] has joined #scheme 05:54:00 gnomon: i haven't written a spec, it's just an idea 05:54:44 so there are holes in it i'm sure 06:03:54 -!- mackid [n=dan@unaffiliated/mackid] has quit ["out"] 06:06:46 -!- hellues [n=hellues@85.96.6.193] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:06:56 hellues [n=hellues@85.96.145.161] has joined #scheme 06:17:13 elmex [n=elmex@e180065016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 06:18:26 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [] 06:20:41 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:20:51 -!- sili [n=sili@unaffiliated/sili] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:26:33 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 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[n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:01:29 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:03:28 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054182.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:06:12 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:09:37 it seems like the phrase, "without loss of generality," confers a cheap authority on the speaker; like: "oh, this cat has a subtle argument" 08:09:46 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:09:48 if only real authority were that easy 08:20:02 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 08:20:11 foof [n=user@clair01.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:24:41 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A3B7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 08:48:26 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054182.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:21 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[n=npe@32.97.110.63] has joined #scheme 14:01:25 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 14:04:03 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 14:10:11 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:37:39 aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:39:19 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@78-0-90-7.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:42:56 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 14:43:14 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-117-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:56:11 klutometis: many technical / mathematical phrases are prone to that 14:56:18 klutometis: depends largely on who's doing the speaking 14:58:04 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:59:08 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:04:25 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 15:11:14 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless135.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:11:21 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 15:12:18 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@p54B858F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:13:01 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:18:57 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A3B7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 15:21:07 npe_ [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 15:22:59 geezus krayst: http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=45213 15:25:36 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 15:35:55 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:30 What? Programs like that are written in reverse. 15:36:42 Without loss of generality, we can prove the case for n = 2, and then the induction is obvious! 15:37:09 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.63] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:39:02 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:41:28 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:43:16 sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-95-83.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:43:47 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 15:46:46 klutometis: us nerds use a _lot_ of pretentious phrases like "without loss of generality" 15:46:50 it's in our blood,maan 15:50:27 Actually it was a clever ploy by mathematics departments to reduce their chalk budget requirements. 15:57:27 -!- kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- cipher [n=cipher@inertia.acm.cs.rpi.edu] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-123.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@relay2.jet.msk.su] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- minion [n=minion@208.72.159.207] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- dlouhy [n=jdlouhy@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-225-78.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:57:27 -!- aspect [i=aspect@burns.dreamhost.com] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:58:15 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 cipher [n=cipher@inertia.acm.cs.rpi.edu] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-123.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 rmrfchik [n=paul@relay2.jet.msk.su] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 minion [n=minion@208.72.159.207] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-225-78.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 dlouhy [n=jdlouhy@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:00:54 aspect [i=aspect@burns.dreamhost.com] has joined #scheme 16:08:28 mbishop_ [n=martin@adsl-150-28-247.aby.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 16:08:33 *igli* chuckles (without the slightest loss of generality) 16:11:06 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:19:56 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:20:07 *foof* chuckles (without loss of genitalia) 16:20:15 lol 16:21:46 *pjdelport* chuckles (without loss of geniality) 16:22:53 heh i like that one 16:22:57 foof: and yet I'm pretty sure I found yours. Here, do these look familiar? 16:23:33 you should watch what you eat, offby1 ;) 16:23:37 *igli* runs like fsck 16:23:55 *offby1* wonders just how fsck runs 16:24:00 skips around, I think. 16:24:04 and slowly, too 16:26:39 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:30 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fb9cf521fb77ae49] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:29:54 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 16:30:15 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:30:54 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:31:15 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless135.wireless.utah.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:31:18 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless135.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:32:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:43:50 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 16:50:46 *synx* skips around like fsck on an encrypted partition 16:53:13 -!- npe_ [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [] 16:58:31 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 17:01:33 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 17:07:49 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:11 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 17:19:23 offby1: it depends on which fsck. if its reiserfsck, it starts by destroying the tree. then it calls assert() to test for whether the tree is oke. since it obviously isnt, it fails and dies painfully, taking your data with it. 17:23:37 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 17:26:15 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-19-69.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 17:28:36 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:28:51 -!- mbishop_ is now known as mbishop 17:35:51 elf: haha good one 17:36:23 synx: im not bitter about it or anything. 17:36:42 hey when you're right, you're right. 17:36:56 *elf* lost 13 years of work due to this. 17:37:05 *elf* mutters. 17:37:21 Any file system checker that uses assert in a production build should have its programmers lined up and shot. 17:37:29 apparently reiser spent his life killing things and taking names 17:37:46 *elf* grins. i wasnt gonna be the first to mention murderfs, but... 17:37:52 elf: wait, are you serious? 17:37:56 *synx* only lost about 3 years of random original artwork... 17:37:58 elf: reiserfsck does that?? 17:38:00 elly: quite. 17:38:02 yes. 17:38:03 O_o 17:38:08 I am kind of stunned 17:38:14 i lost data once, and then I started using backups 17:38:26 i didnt have a consistent set of backups :( 17:38:28 Elly: Normally it doesn't "destroy" the tree, but it has a very liberal definition of "fix" 17:38:34 synx: ahh :P 17:38:48 *Elly* has a complete backup from a year ago and periodic deltas from since 17:38:49 *synx* should make some backups... 17:38:50 liberal definition meaning 'overwrite the bloody bitmap' 17:39:32 oh, and if you have other reiserfs images on the partition (say, backups of smaller drives)... 17:39:37 I don't have a hundred bucks to get a backup hard disk though. Whatever can fit on DVDs... 17:39:39 youre REALLY REALLY screwed. 17:40:09 i have had reiser fail on me too 17:40:18 I should keep a record of what file was backed up when, to do file-atomic deltas, without having to read a million DVDs. 17:40:22 many years back 17:41:09 my fail was about 2 years ago. me running a program of my own creation over it to get whatever i can back has been going on for basically the entire time since then. 17:42:02 pattern matching on the disk image? 17:42:04 ouch 17:42:42 synx: going through every chunk and trying to find all possible definitions and links for it. 17:42:49 factorial time. :( 17:42:55 i lost my shiny raptor hard drive less than a year after i got it :( but lucky TRK saved me once again when windows failed 17:43:00 Oh...ouch 17:43:15 How many chunks? >_< 17:43:24 another reason why reiserfs sucks... each chunk can have multiple interpretations. 17:43:55 erm, it was a 50G drive with ... i think 2k chunks. 17:44:10 That's a legacy you pass on to your progeny. 17:44:30 well, once i get all that i care about off, ill stop running the blasted thing :) 17:44:39 why dont you go visit him in prison and ask to help you? :p 17:44:42 Oh, we both know that's a lie. 17:44:56 without the tree you're kind of screwed... 17:44:57 ive gotten most of it out again, although without filenames or directory structure. 17:44:57 By then, processors will be much faster, and the runtime left won't seem so long... 17:45:07 ...and it would be such a shame to leave it half done... 17:45:22 ...and what else are you using all those cycles for? Besides, it's easier to let it keep running than turn it off. 17:45:26 gnomon: i doubt that ill care about the old contents of /usr/X11R6 ... 17:45:27 Repeat every five or six years. 17:45:37 right, and ponies will fly out my arse 17:45:50 just look for text i guess? 17:45:58 Get a webcam and an Ad Words account. You could make a killing. 17:46:11 pdfs arent in text. 17:46:27 only code and text is text. postscript, images, etc... 17:46:38 pr0n... 17:46:39 :p 17:46:56 each innovation advances logistically as we max out its usefulness... overall technology resembles a step curve. 17:47:09 pr0n wouldnt be a problem, you can always get more these days, if thats what you want. 17:47:16 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 17:47:19 jumps up every now and again... slowly degrades back as old knowledge is lost... 17:47:37 pretty creative interpretation of statistics to turn that into a geometric ascent. 17:48:16 technology is a depressing waste of time. i should go become a hermit and whack goats with sticks. at least i'd still know what was going on in my field. 17:48:26 -!- mmc1 [n=gvtk86@217.147.104.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:30 scheduling algorithms would be easier too. 17:48:40 hehe goat whacking 17:48:42 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 17:48:44 5am: wake up. 6am: whack goats with sticks. 17:48:52 field, being the field where the goats herd in? 17:48:56 none of this 'what state is the thread in' 17:49:00 precisely, leppie. :) 17:49:04 :) 17:49:16 no need for threads when you're clothed in raw animal hide. 17:49:28 Just kind of piled on top there. 17:49:29 maybe we should go back to being hunter-gatherers. 17:49:49 You go back to hunting and gathering. I'm going to raid your fridge while you're out whacking goats. 17:49:58 *elf* thinks that leaving the oceans in the first place was a bad idea. 17:49:59 most of us are well beyond the maximum lifespan of a hunter/gatherer anyway 17:50:17 teh elf 17:50:17 gnomon: dont have a fridge atm :( 17:50:22 teh sjamaan! 17:50:25 lets go back in time and let the abacus be based on lambda calculus instead 17:50:26 Pantry? 17:50:39 *synx* thinks elf should try returning to the oceans, see how well that works out for him. 17:50:40 dont even have an apt. :) 17:50:51 synx: theyre cold and wet. 17:50:54 I am *not* raiding your pocket lint. That's just nasty 17:51:01 kin-kay. 17:51:58 elf: where do you keep your stuff? 17:52:11 in my parents house atm. :( 17:52:20 piled high in boxes. 17:52:33 ew 17:52:49 You piled your parents in boxes!? 17:52:53 ...and now we're back to Reiser. 17:52:58 *elf* laughs. 17:53:17 :) 17:53:42 my other car is missing its front passenger seat. i cdr body up. 17:54:06 *elf* mutters. 17:54:14 *gnomon* facepalms 17:54:17 oke, catcha later schemers, going to look at more apartments. 17:54:18 Well played, sir. 17:54:21 life is odd... 17:54:24 thank you, sir. :) 17:54:40 bye 17:54:41 I hope one day to be able to afford to live in a trailer park. 18:13:35 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-19-69.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:19:38 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-19-69.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:22:34 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #scheme 18:26:48 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-19-69.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:26:59 bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:18 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:27:35 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:32:39 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 18:36:34 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:38:03 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:41:17 wingo-tp [n=wingo@22.Red-79-156-144.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:49 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 18:44:36 looking at http://barzilay.org/Swindle/swindle/doc.txt is really interesting -- still scheme, but not what i program in 18:52:55 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:53:05 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 18:59:04 mike_ [n=mike@dslb-088-066-241-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:02:57 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:03:03 cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 19:05:51 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 19:11:18 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:11:53 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:42 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 19:12:44 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-10-58.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:13:26 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-31-63.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:13:28 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 19:15:27 lolcow [n=lolcow@dsl-243-19-92.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:19:33 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:22:44 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-123.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:22:52 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 19:23:34 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:02 Cale_ [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:41:25 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:41:31 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 19:45:49 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43B6D.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 19:46:52 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 19:55:21 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:56:00 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.92] has joined #scheme 19:56:25 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:58:59 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.63] has joined #scheme 19:59:01 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.63] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:08 shiranaihito [i=joo@cs181212115.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:01:21 -!- shiranaihito [i=joo@cs181212115.pp.htv.fi] has left #scheme 20:03:18 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless135.wireless.utah.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:03:23 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless135.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:03:38 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:08:20 synx: are things really that bad? 20:09:20 proq: Seems that way. I'm living on someone else's dime right now, so <0. 20:09:27 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:09:37 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:36 -!- igli [n=igli@fu/coder/igli] has left #scheme 20:12:02 yeah, I've been working long hours to keep things sane 20:13:00 hey! 20:13:07 no hours left for me! :> 20:13:35 how is that? 20:14:38 hard workers raise the bar, kind of like strike breakers. 20:15:11 -!- cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 20:15:17 getting to be that investors only need to hire one person to do the work of 10, but at the same time there's little support for the 9 left over with nothing to do. 20:15:20 a good deal of the work is for myself 20:15:59 I was just unemployed two months ago, and got a chance to start some ideas 20:16:09 oh, well that's totally different. 20:16:28 I do a lot of work like that. <.< 20:17:30 I just like to advise people that the consequences of hard work aren't always beneficial (though sometimes are). 20:22:06 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.63] has joined #scheme 20:22:08 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.92] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 20:23:39 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.63] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27:16 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 20:32:27 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:37:08 -!- xerox [n=xerox@unaffiliated/xerox] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:37:43 xerox [n=xerox@unaffiliated/xerox] has joined #scheme 20:40:46 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-166-102.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:42:18 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:54 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.99] has joined #scheme 20:47:56 annodomini_ [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 20:48:21 -!- annodomini 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[n=hellues@88.235.220.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:50:34 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:57:04 Jarv2 [n=Jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:58:20 -!- cipher [n=cipher@inertia.acm.cs.rpi.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 22:58:52 -!- Jarvellis [n=Jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:59:01 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 23:02:57 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:03:56 kilimanjaro [n=foo@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 23:13:03 cipher [n=user@inertia.acm.cs.rpi.edu] has joined #scheme 23:13:23 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-209-18.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:13:37 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-186-236-123.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:51 Hello everyone. 23:18:16 arcfide: no y'all affectation today ;) 23:18:41 Heheh, I like to mix up the Northern and the Southern. 23:19:04 nice; that may be what they call hegelian dialectic 23:19:13 marriage of extremes 23:19:22 *Axioplase* doesn't understand 23:19:25 Actually, I took one of those little accent tests, the other day, and it claims that I have a Northern Accent, just because I make slight differentiations in the way I pronounce Dawn and Don. 23:19:35 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 23:19:51 Well, and other words similar to those. 23:20:09 don't those tests rely on self-evaluation, though? it's extraordinarily hard to hear one's own accent (at least for me) 23:20:44 klutometis: I am at least aware of how I pronounce some words, and they did not ask me anything I was not aware of myself. 23:20:48 But yes, I would agree. 23:20:53 that's interesting 23:21:34 Axioplase: understand what? 23:21:34 Of course, when I am speaking very quickly, without much attention to precision and diction, then Dawn and Don might sound similar. 23:22:08 arcfide: do you often have occasion to pay speak with precision? 23:22:15 how from "hello everyone" he went to "hehe, I like to mix..." 23:22:16 s/pay// 23:23:21 Axioplase: arcfide will anounce himself with "y'all"; but today he diverged 23:23:21 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless135.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:44 -!- mike_ [n=mike@dslb-088-066-241-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:23:49 klutometis: Actually, yes, there are plenty of times that I find being precise helps. 23:23:58 klutometis: to hear your own accent, you have to live a while surrounded by another standard intonation... 23:24:01 Ah, I see 23:24:12 Of course, plenty of times when it doesn't matter, too. 23:25:24 In my Middle/High School, our Grammar classes focused some on diction and the way different words were pronounced in accents other than normal. We spent some time working on immitating accents around the world, including English, Bostonian, Southern, &c. 23:25:37 Axioplase: my father's accent is invisible to me, bizarrely, though i'm surrounded by another intonation all the time 23:26:36 arcfide: i ask because i had to make a cd of myself the other day, reciting solutions to CLRS; my natural imprecision inspired me to think about my syllables for subsequent recordings 23:26:41 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180065016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:26:58 but thinking about syllables feels unnatural 23:26:59 klutometis: I lived in Quebec, and now I'm back in France, I *notice* other people's accents (regional French accents, which are bery subtle, compared to what I experienced in London) 23:27:35 klutometis: Well, my natural spoken clarity has deteriorated somewhat recently. People used to remark on my speech as exceptionally neutral and clear, but I doubt this is true anymore. 23:27:48 Axioplase: i think in France, the difference between the northern and southern accents is quite noticable 23:28:02 klutometis: It only feels natural if you are not constantly worrying about your speech anyways. 23:28:59 s/natural/unnatural/ 23:29:07 duncanm: it is. But one can't tell with a precision below, say, 300 miles around 23:29:16 Axioplase: true 23:29:37 Axioplase: compared to Spain and Italy, i think France is already quite homogenous, in terms of regional accents 23:30:05 klutometis: It also helps if you suffer punishments in school for not being aware of your pronunciation. 23:30:10 Axioplase: other people's accents is the key, i think; could you describe your oe diphthong in a vacuum, for instance, without comparing it to the parisian or moroccan one? 23:30:13 Whereas I could (should I live there long enough) guess on which side of the Thames you live, if not in which street :) 23:30:20 arcfide: catholic? corporal? 23:30:42 klutometis: Private non-denominational. 23:31:15 AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #scheme 23:31:24 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 23:31:41 klutometis: I do need to compare. There's the BBC English, the NHK Japanese, and the TF1 French (parisian accent as known 50 years ago has almost disappeared) 23:32:28 But some (most?) differences can be written in terms of IPA indeed 23:33:13 What was parisian accent 50 years ago? 23:33:32 I suppose you can listen to 1960's TV to know 23:36:24 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:33 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 23:36:34 Or a (famous) movie like "Les Tontons flingueurs" 23:37:20 Just like when I watch old American B&W movies... I've never heard anyone talk like that nowadays 23:39:25 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:39:48 Axioplase: or even rene clair's "le million" 23:42:30 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-186-236-123.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["New Kernelq"] 23:42:30 I realised that my French has shifted a lot. A few "quebecisms", but also, now, I tend to acquire many fluctuations of the language. The least modulation of tone I hear may modify my own way to speak. Now, friends of mine ask me why I'm using various accents in a single sentence (accents that I do hear myself, but that I don't really control) 23:47:03 -!- aspect [i=aspect@burns.dreamhost.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:48:44 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-195.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:50:02 -!- papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:50:03 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [] 23:53:59 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 23:54:50 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:24 Axioplase, dis, tu m'files un bec? 23:59:39 (tabarnak!)