00:01:15 arcfide: the IO size is pretty small. 00:04:53 -!- mib_eh86rw [i=43b9044f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-999c237c607cda3a] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 00:05:03 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit ["Smile! "] 00:05:26 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:05:56 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:25 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:05 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-063-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:47 -!- aquanaut` [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:15 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 00:37:43 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:38 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:41 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 00:39:49 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:40:01 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:43:57 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:46:30 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133117089.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:50:33 eli: Looking at it, I guess you're right, though it did seem to have some strange CPU reports on my machine. 00:50:58 Anyways, I'm on to other challenges now. I finally have the proper method for soft-boiled eggs! 00:51:17 It took me long enough to figure it out . . . :| 01:05:03 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:06:22 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 01:10:58 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:11:15 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:14:06 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 01:18:47 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:18:58 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:29 grnman [n=grnman@c-76-110-165-179.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:49 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:26:49 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:31:50 I'm sure you were all eminently aware of this, but I'd just like to remark that shell scripting is brain-damaged beyond humanly words of derogation. 01:34:20 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [] 01:37:37 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-a85a94c4a03df2c4] has joined #scheme 01:38:28 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 01:42:06 two- or three-line scripts are OK :) 01:42:19 Here is a disturbingly useful fragment in a shell script: foo="'`printf '%s' "$bar" | sed -e 's/'"'"'/'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'/g'`'" 01:42:25 :) 01:42:39 I've never had to do anything _quote_ that bad, but ah feel yo pain. 01:42:42 ha 01:42:46 Freudian typo 01:43:00 In fact, that is among the most useful fragments in shell scripts I've thought of in a long time. 01:43:35 Unfortunately it is not as portable as one might wish. 01:43:48 I honestly am not sure what it does. Adds quotes? Turns one flavor of quote into another? 01:44:38 The right way to do it is really with a heredoc: 01:44:57 foo="'`sed -e 's/'"'"'/'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'/g < $bar 01:44:59 EOF 01:45:03 `'" 01:45:14 s/right/portable/1 01:45:36 It quotes single-quotes so that they are suitable for generating shell scripts as output. 01:45:56 yeah. 01:45:58 *shudder* 01:46:07 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 01:46:14 if I had that problem, I'd probably invoke perl or some other handy language. 01:46:15 This lets one, for example, actually use arguments that have spaces in them. 01:46:25 gol-lee 01:46:26 Shell scripting is messed up. That's why, if I ever intend to keep the shell script around, I rewrite it in Scheme. 01:46:27 who'd'a thunk 01:46:51 all shell scripts eventually get rewritten in _something_ better. 01:47:01 offby1: sometimes, but not always. 01:47:16 I know some shell scripts that have existed and continue to exist: they just won't die. 01:47:26 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:47:48 always! 01:47:51 read mah lips 01:48:10 Actually, I personally think that, had autoconf been written in something other than shell scripts, there might actually be some hope of redeeming it, no matter how small. 01:48:19 meh 01:48:25 To be honest, I'd rather use that little monstrosity than try to quote Perl scripts. 01:48:26 automake is perl, and it's a botch, too :-| 01:48:36 autoconf had a legitimate reason to be written in shell script. 01:48:49 'twas the only language sure to be available 01:48:55 automake is just a botch and deserves no further existence. 01:49:01 I use one very useful perl program -- set of perl programs -- the code for which I do not examine: pkg_* tools on OpenBSD. 01:49:13 Those are written in Perl on OpenBSD? 01:49:27 I don't care _what_ something is written in, as long as it works, and I don't have to look at it 01:49:59 Riastradh: They were written in C, and then someone rewrote the entire thing in Perl to provide additional features and ease maintainability. They actually improved the speed, feature set, and reliability of the software. I was amused. 01:50:42 offby1: Given my involvement with OpenBSD at some level as a port maintainer, I do stand the risk of having to read the PKG_* tools' sources. 01:50:52 Riastradh: Undeadly.org has some information about the rewriting. 01:51:04 perl, to ease maintainability? hmm 01:51:31 mbishop: That just shows how bad the C code was for them at the time. It was an architectural as well as lingual shift. 01:51:41 *offby1* reflexively throws his dentures at mbishop 01:52:02 Riastradh: autoconf may have had a legitimate reason to be written in shell scripts, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. 01:52:29 benny [n=benny@i577A0DDB.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 01:52:30 Do you care to suggest an alternative, arcfide? 01:52:37 `Use OpenBSD' is not an alternative. 01:52:42 *arcfide* chuckles. 01:53:29 Well, the software projects I have had the most ease and least amount of trouble working with when they run into an environment with which they are not familiar is a well designed set of Makefiles and system specific declarations. 01:53:51 I am not saying that this is a good replacement for autoconf, but I believe that it has been far more pleasant for me than autoconf based software. 01:54:21 git doesn't use configure at all, as far as I know. There's just a Makefile, and if you're missing some library, it fails to compile. Pretty simple, actually. 01:54:30 When placed in environments where both build systems know what to do, I believe they don't really cause much difference one way or the other. 01:54:59 offby1: One program I use is NN, and it is built with some config files that you edit to run. They are well documented, and they work very nicely. 01:55:12 There are some others that I have used which work equally nicely. 01:55:22 wow, the old newsreader? 01:55:29 offby1: it isn't that old. 01:55:39 offby1: Okay, well, yes, it is. 01:55:39 I'd have guessed 20 years, actually 01:55:47 I think about 24 actually. 01:55:53 But it has a relatively recent release. 01:56:19 It's the best newsreader for my purposes. And it has a very pleasing build system; especially after . . . MIT Scheme. ;-) 01:56:42 Not that I am implying all autoconf programs are as bad as MIT Scheme was at one time. 01:57:30 Isn't someone trying to rewrite the Chicken build system to unify and simplify the whole thing? 01:57:46 offby1: What do you use for news? 01:59:46 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:59:48 hemulen_ [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 01:59:53 gnus 02:00:23 arcfide: a year or two ago a (at the time) local guy named Brandon Van Every was rewriting the Chicken build system, using CMake. 02:01:06 Gnus, eh? :-D 02:01:10 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 02:01:21 Do you use it to read your mail, RSS, and future as well? 02:01:34 mail, yes; others, now. 02:01:35 now. 02:01:36 no. 02:01:38 Christ. 02:01:50 Azathoth. 02:01:58 Vishnu! 02:02:17 Ganesh... Nyarlathotep... C'mon, I'm not very good at this game; someone else pitch in. 02:03:07 Flurbithentethes 02:03:14 I think you made that one up. 02:03:29 Cat monster! 02:04:11 I give up. I'm going to bed. 02:05:40 Adagio for strings, Op. 11 -- :-D 02:06:40 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 02:06:40 -!- hemulen_ [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:03 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:10:27 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:14:02 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-1-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:16:51 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-160-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:18:04 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:23:45 bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-116-90.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 02:27:17 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:27:30 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:28:09 Anyone running Ikarus on cygwin? 02:29:01 what's ikarus? 02:29:10 Ikarus Scheme 02:29:54 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-5-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:30:40 grettke: not on cygwin I am afraid. 02:30:40 -!- cubix_ [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:30:47 Well, actually, I am glad to not be running it on cygwin. 02:31:22 cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:31:28 -!- xor_ [n=gavin@97-118-116-90.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:31:32 arcfide: You used a figure of speech, you didn't say you were sad not to be. 02:31:51 ventonegro [i=alex@189-94-15-181.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #scheme 02:32:34 grettke: by using that figure of speech, i believe I implied that I might have wished to be running it in some sense. 02:33:09 arcfide: haha no, it is more of a formality 02:33:37 I tend to take it more literally than that. 02:33:58 Hrm, it appears that I have a problem with my minimax algorithm. 02:34:40 Running my game with only one ply search depth, meaning that the program is entirely dependent on the evaluation procedure to determine the best move, I win almost all games against my random playing opponent. 02:34:56 However, introducing a 3-ply search depth results in the opponent winning more often and by a greater margin. 02:35:03 *arcfide* wonders what could introduce such a bad thing. 02:40:15 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:40:59 arcfide: scott bakulaaa 02:41:06 klutometis: huh? 02:41:13 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [] 02:41:38 arcfide: oh, sorry; the onion just imputed metaphysical powers to him: http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/scott_bakula_jumps_into?utm_source=onion_rss_daily 02:41:39 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/44m9wu 02:41:43 i'm sure he could screw up minimax 02:44:04 arcfide: you accidentally reversed the scoring or something? 02:45:00 pjdelport: I am trying to investigate this possibility, but for some reason, it doesn't affect it that much, but just enough to be noticeably worse. 02:45:06 The game still wins most of the time. 02:47:29 Piranha__ [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #scheme 02:48:59 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:00:32 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180064038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:00:42 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 03:01:58 elmex [n=elmex@e180067112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:04:05 bryan [n=bryan@202.96.19.49] has joined #scheme 03:04:25 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:06:50 pjdelport: I see, I was forgetting to put the right sign when handling special terminal cases. 03:06:59 Meaning that a lost board could be considered a good thing by the game. 03:07:21 arcfide: i was thinking something like that, yeah 03:07:25 suicide chess :) 03:08:02 -!- tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has quit ["Riece/5.0.0 Emacs/22.2 (berkeley-unix)"] 03:08:17 tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has joined #scheme 03:14:34 Riastradh: Was SCSH not a viable alternative to shell scripting? Or did you need something portable? 03:18:19 -!- bryan is now known as yezhao 03:18:30 -!- yezhao [n=bryan@202.96.19.49] has quit ["leaving"] 03:19:48 -!- allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:21:51 xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.69.41] has joined #scheme 03:21:54 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-1-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:27:26 la la la 03:27:59 -!- bsmntbombdood_ is now known as bsmntbombdood 03:30:15 hodely yodely 03:33:33 -!- OceanSpray [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:33:58 OceanSpray [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:36:43 yezhao [n=yezhao@202.96.19.49] has joined #scheme 03:39:53 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:14 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:54:07 in plt, (call-in-nested-thread) means after the current thread dies, that thread will stop, unlike (thread) where the created thread continues ad infinitum with a never ending function. I think... 03:56:11 sounds reasonable. 03:56:14 I've never used it, though 03:57:26 I think it's okay to use... just running a thread that attempts some cleanup repeatedly, so after the "upper" thread finishes it can just die happily. 03:58:25 could be 03:58:32 pity the docs don't make it clear 03:59:14 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:01:46 Oh it won't work actually >_< 04:02:07 "The current thread blocks until thunk returns, and the result of the call-in-nested-thread call is the result returned by thunk." 04:02:15 wtf, why not just call thunk then? 04:02:29 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-160-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 04:02:30 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:02:41 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 04:04:59 Great... I'm gonna have to make a second thread to wait on the current thread and then kill the cleanup thread. 04:05:41 This is why I should be concerned about the performance of 12k threads, I always litter them all over the place. 04:09:02 calling the hunk in a separate thread might be useful in that the "child" thread cannot harm the parent's globals 04:10:19 I guess that could be useful. 04:10:32 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176221043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:11:47 synx pasted "witness my fail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68472 04:12:01 That works. 04:12:03 Um... 04:12:13 For being an awful hack, at least. 04:13:45 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:19:46 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 04:26:42 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:29:05 -!- ventonegro [i=alex@189-94-15-181.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:35:39 cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has joined #scheme 04:49:15 synx: That *is* a bad hack. 04:50:05 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:50:12 Probably if I check thread-dead? after every will-execute... only one thread needed then. 04:50:28 synx: first of all, you could use events, and make the destroying-thread wait on either the will being ready or the parent thread being dead. Detect which one happened, and act accordingly. 04:50:35 The global will be garbage collected after the thread dies...right... 04:50:53 No, not after -- if the thread dies while you're waiting for the will, then you won't wake up. 04:50:54 Ooh that's a good idea eli. I'll do that! 04:51:03 No, that's still a bad idea. 04:51:20 A better idea is to read about custodians. 04:51:49 You create a custodian, then when you want to throw the whole thing out you use `custodian-shutdown-all' which will close all ports, kill the threads etc etc. 04:51:51 meh... guess so. 04:52:15 Not need to meh -- it was designed for such situations. 04:52:23 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:38 But even more better is to just leave the thread alive. It doesn't harm anyone. 04:52:45 I don't kill the main thread explicitly. The "user" does it... 04:53:01 Well, it'd spawn a new one every time I hit Ctrl-T in drscheme is the thing. 04:53:01 Irrelevant. 04:53:11 No you won't/ 04:53:29 DrScheme starts each interaction from a clean state. 04:53:40 (And guess how it does that...) 04:53:47 No it doesn't... does it? 04:53:48 Oh okay. 04:53:52 It does. 04:53:52 Custodians, sure. 04:54:51 Riastradh: if you're using a good shell (and it seems that you are, since that code doesn't work on a sh, the quoting seems suspicious), then you can just as well do something like: foo-"'${bar//'/'\"'\"'}'" 04:54:54 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:55:16 Riastradh: should have been an assignment: foo="'${bar//'/'\"'\"'}'" 04:55:57 *aspect* eyes bleed 04:57:17 it's better than what Riastradh pasted earlier 04:59:32 what's the goal? 04:59:55 Quote a piece of a script. 05:00:19 '...' is a literal quote, but the problem is that you cannot have a ' character in it. 05:00:57 So you quote it using double quotes -- but you need to switch off the single quotes. 05:01:38 For example, you need to turn FOO'BAR"BAZ to 'FOO'"'"'BAR"BAZ' 05:02:05 ... and the above piece of bash adds a surrounding 's, and replaces every ' into '"'"' 05:02:08 Simple. 05:03:44 and if you wanted to quote that 05:03:48 FOO'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'BAR"BAZ 05:03:56 and so on 05:05:04 *aspect* would use sed and \', but that's just what I find more readable 05:06:01 pjdelport: ''"'"'FOO'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'BAR"BAZ'"'"'' to be more exact (the outer ''s are redundant) 05:06:11 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:06:21 aspect: that wouldn't help with the basic problem, it only makes it more complicated. 05:06:38 insane 05:07:30 Not insane, just a bad quoting scheme. 05:07:31 -!- replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:07:49 Quoting is a delicate business. 05:08:33 I always try to properly attribute my quotes. 05:08:33 Say that you want a simple quoting notation, and come up with this: 05:09:00 "Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but the thing dies in the process and the innards are discouraging to any but the pure scientist. --E.B. White" 05:09:05 '...' is a quoted ..., where every character in the ... stands for itself, except for ' 05:09:11 Now, _there_'s a good quote. 05:09:27 to quote a ' you precede it with a backslash 05:09:39 a backslash has no significance in itself 05:09:55 so 'a\b' is the string a-backslash-b 05:10:06 eli: I think we understand quoting as well as we need|care to 05:10:11 only \' can be used to produce a ' 05:10:30 If you want to have a \' in the string, precede that with a backslash: \\' 05:10:44 Question: is this quoting scheme broken, and if so how? 05:11:00 aspect: the tick starts clocking now. 05:11:38 *aspect* has paying work to do. which happens to be more interesting, somehow 05:12:08 *eli* boos 05:12:21 mejja [n=user@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 05:13:02 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:16:10 AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:17:07 How wonderfully coincidental! 05:17:31 I was just writing about proper quoting technique a few minutes ago. 05:20:42 aoeuid [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 05:21:12 is there something wrong with the plt-scheme.org site? I can't seem toget to it at all... 05:21:21 downforeveryoneorjustme.com 05:22:01 atleastyourircworks.org 05:22:02 plt-scheme.org is up for me 05:22:09 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/ 05:22:12 that one doesn't 05:22:19 thats up too 05:22:29 but.. really you should use your localhost for the docs. its much faster 05:22:32 that site's telling me it's not 05:22:36 where is it here? 05:22:40 plt-help 05:23:31 in... dr scheme? 05:24:49 look in file:///home/you/.plt 05:24:55 look in file:///home/you/.plt-scheme rather 05:25:13 on my box it's file:///home/erich/.plt-scheme/4.1.1/doc/index.html 05:25:19 only plt-prefs.ss here 05:25:22 naturally the login name and version number will vary 05:26:30 and the site still isn't working =/ 05:26:48 is there a mirror or something where I can get the pdf version of the docs? 05:27:30 mua ha ha 05:27:40 hm? 05:28:00 that's evil laughter. 05:28:09 I've never seen them in PDF; just HTML 05:28:11 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:28:22 so you're running DrScheme? 05:29:48 hm 05:29:49 yeah 05:30:06 I saw a link to http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/pdf/ 05:30:13 so what happens when you choose the "Help" menu, and select the first item on it: "Help Desk" ? 05:30:13 but I obviously can't see what's there 05:30:51 ooh, that's cool 05:30:52 -!- cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:31:01 but in a really annoying format/little window 05:31:39 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 05:31:48 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:31:50 ? 05:31:57 what version of DrScheme are you running? 05:31:59 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 05:33:25 372 05:33:30 and I don't mean it's bad 05:33:38 just in a weird format 05:33:46 is there any way to browse it with like firefox? 05:34:09 dunno; can't remember. 372 is pretty old :) 05:34:13 try v4 05:34:15 aoeuid: yes, upgrade to the recent release -- 4.1.1. 05:34:30 gnomon: what was the issue? 05:34:39 *eli* just loves quoting 05:34:54 v4? 05:35:06 I downloaded the version from the ubuntu repos 05:35:27 aoeuid: use the installers at download.plt-scheme.org, they're better. 05:36:17 *offby1* nods sagely 05:36:28 pity nobody has packaged v4 for Ubuntu yet 05:36:29 I'm sure that would be nice, but that url's not accessible either :/ 05:36:33 eli, you won't like it. 05:36:34 http://awk.freeshell.org/PrintASingleQuote 05:37:24 and this documentation is amazing! 05:37:50 aoeuid, are you sure your internet works? 05:38:02 gnomon: nicely written 05:38:30 yeah, other sites work fine 05:38:34 pretty weird 05:38:40 gnomon: that's the same issue as above -- the stupidity of shell quotes. 05:38:44 but this stuff in the help desk should be about all I need :) 05:38:52 gnomon: guy I worked with once thought awk was the be-all and end-all 05:39:12 *aspect* likes awk 05:40:16 offby1: it's strange that people like that exist. Like some Neanderthal perl hackers. 05:40:19 Crom! There's an entire #awk channel?? 05:40:24 cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:40:32 zaktly. 05:41:11 Plan 9 people love awk/sed/etc. and hate Perl. 05:41:31 So nobody has an answer to the quoting problem I wrote? 05:42:17 offby1, thanks! 05:43:00 offby1, as for awk being all that and a bag of chips... I *like* awk, perhaps to an unreasonable degree, but I have illusions about its many limitations. 05:43:12 s/have/have no/ 05:43:14 ... ? 05:43:25 Daemmerung, the entire #awk channel is a ragtag bunch of language weenies, of which I am a proud member ;) 05:43:33 Er, yes. Rather. 05:43:56 foof, I like awk quite a bit. I quite like a bit of sed. 05:43:58 the last useful thing I saw awk being used for was as an embedded interpreter to prevent code being written to disk for anti-forensics purposes 05:44:18 in new code at least 05:44:27 Adamant, if that's really the last useful piece of awk you've seen... oh, ok. 05:44:45 gnomon: yeah, I know awk is all around us if we use Unix 05:44:57 *Daemmerung* wrote some Awk to process `empire' data... long, long ago 05:45:19 The last useful bit of awk I saw was a very simple program to iterate through every line in a file and split it into four parts, so that the input list could be fed into four separate machine instances to parallelize load. It was about a 15-byte program. Awk excels in its niche. 05:45:32 structs are a gift from the heavens 05:45:50 eli: That quoting scheme isn't concatenative. 05:45:56 i.e. quote(ab) != quote(a)quote(b) 05:48:20 gnomon: if that's *your* page, then you should definitely add the '"'"' -- it's pretty common. 05:48:24 foof: that's just a hint that something is probably wrong; but the real answer should be a simple string that you cannot quote. 05:49:07 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:49:14 eli, er? 05:49:26 *gnomon* reads further into the scrollback buffer 05:49:37 gnomon: for example: 05:49:52 awk 'BEGIN{print "it said '"'"'Hello, World!'"'"' and then returned 0";exit 0}' 05:50:12 Well, there's a simple rule so you can quote/unquote anything. 05:50:32 You want some x s.t. unquote(quote(x)) != x ? 05:50:44 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 05:51:07 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51:08 foof: No, that's a basic requirement from every quotation. What I wand is some x such that quote(x) does not exist. 05:51:26 I can't imagine any... 05:51:58 (Using the quotation I specified earlier...) 05:52:00 Holy doodle, eli - I think that's even uglier than the bits that I complained about in the wiki article. 05:52:40 gnomon: Yes, it's far from pretty. But it works robustly enough to be common. (eg, see Riastradh's thing above.) 05:52:44 eli: I mentally changed the specification to simply: prefix ' w/ \ 05:52:58 Which gives the same result when you want \' 05:53:43 You can write that up as an algorithm, so there's nothing that 05:53:46 can't be quoted. 05:54:06 right, but you also want to prefix \' with a \ to follow the specs. 05:54:20 That's what I'm doing differently. 05:54:45 With the same result in that simple case. 05:55:10 In any case, there is still a problem even with your simplification. 05:55:15 i.e. for simple cases that extra rule is superfluous. 05:57:00 Maybe. I still can't think of an x for which unquote(quote(x)) != x 05:57:12 Or equivalently x, y s.t. quote(x) == quote(y) 05:58:10 I give up. 05:58:12 \ 05:58:32 What, a single backslash? 05:58:36 Yes. 05:58:56 In the algorithm in my head, that's handled perfectly unambiguously. 05:59:07 So obviously I don't understand your specification at all. 05:59:22 OK, so how do you quote it? 05:59:40 "a backslash has no significance in itself" 05:59:47 So \ is just \ 06:00:08 The unquoter looks, sees a \, sees the next char isn't ' and so 06:00:11 Outputs a \ 06:00:34 foof: the problem is quoting a string holding just \ -- that can't be done. 06:01:02 How can't it? The specification you gave works fine. 06:01:31 Just write it. You need to write a string (in that quotation) -- something that starts and ends with a ' 06:02:19 oh, nm 06:02:24 The thing that, if it were using conventional backslash-as-escape, would be written as '\\' 06:02:40 I was ignoring the rule that the string itself begins and ends with ' 06:07:02 Ohh so '\' won't work right. 06:07:24 Though it could detect that as a special case... instead of erroring out with an unterminated string. 06:32:55 *foof* has coffee now and his brain is partially functioning 06:34:44 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.1"] 06:34:49 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 06:42:06 -!- yezhao [n=yezhao@202.96.19.49] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:57:38 what exactly does this error mean? 06:57:39 set-node-connections!: expects args of type ; given instance of a different 06:58:20 you evaluated "define-struct" twice 06:58:36 or perhaps you're using transparent structs 06:58:49 defining the same thing twice is bad? 06:58:59 (defining it to be the same thing each time) 06:59:22 yep 06:59:28 lol 06:59:36 read the docs about structures; they're specifically designed to do just what you're seeing 06:59:40 ok, I'll know that for the future 07:20:00 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:23:35 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053CFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:25:12 http://xkcd.com/488/ 07:29:30 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:32:15 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:36:50 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-118-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 07:37:41 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has joined #scheme 07:42:25 that's why I like amazon.com for music 07:42:38 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-5-43.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 07:42:38 although they need to hurry up and put more albums in the mp3 section 07:44:40 rmrfchik [n=paul@relay2.jet.msk.su] has joined #scheme 07:58:39 amazon.com sells non-drm music? 07:59:27 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:26 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:09:04 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 08:16:24 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #scheme 08:20:38 foof` [n=user@clair01.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:25:27 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053CFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:33:50 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:33:55 -!- foof` is now known as foof 08:36:45 -!- mejja [n=user@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:45:24 pfo_ [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 08:45:31 -!- dfeuer 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[n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:16:34 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:46:51 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.186.97] has joined #scheme 10:00:57 how can I do this without .? http://pastebin.com/m70bfbd8a 10:02:05 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-a85a94c4a03df2c4] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:32 You can't. 10:05:55 However, if you're sure that `rest' is a proper list, you can use: 10:06:02 (bar rest ...) 10:10:00 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-216.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 10:10:12 -!- bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:10:57 bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #scheme 10:11:38 it'd like to be able to write something like (foo (1 2 3 4)) and get this transformed to (map display (list 1 2 3 4)) 10:13:07 s/map/for-each, or anything else 10:13:46 You can change '. rest' to 'rest ...' 10:14:12 oh, sorry 10:14:17 foof answered your question 10:14:28 so.. (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules ((foo rest ...) (for-each display ...)))) ? 10:14:35 erm 10:14:41 (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules ((foo rest ...) (for-each display rest ...)))) ? 10:14:50 it looks weird 10:15:00 (for-each display (list rest ...)) 10:15:05 oh no 10:15:14 (for-each display 'rest ...) 10:15:30 Debolaz [n=debolaz@195.159.114.206] has joined #scheme 10:16:26 I think it works.. thanks 10:17:15 http://bit.csc.lsu.edu/~gb/csc4101/Reading/gigo-1997-04.html <- is this real?! 10:17:49 athos [n=philipp@p54B84669.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:19:35 I tried writing ((foo rest ... f) (for-each f 'rest ...)) and it works, but I still have problems with my original macro :) 10:20:28 That won't work unless f expects multiple arguments. 10:20:39 You probably want '(rest ...) 10:21:02 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-138-236.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:21:20 I get a "no pattern variables before ellipses in template in: ...: error in mine 10:21:40 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-138-236.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 10:25:56 GrayShade: Then you're doing it wrong. 10:26:17 Did you maybe use (foo . rest) in the pattern and rest ... in the 10:26:19 template? 10:26:27 closest to what I want would be ((foo (rest ...)) (list rest ...)) 10:27:11 no, I use ... 10:27:54 maybe it's because I'm defining a macro inside another one? 10:28:37 and it thinks that the ellipsis in the inner macro is a reference to something in the outer one? 10:30:51 like this: http://pastebin.com/d5a558818 10:32:42 GrayShade: Yeah, that doesn't work. 10:33:00 There's no way to do that with R5RS SYNTAX-RULES. 10:33:08 dne [i=1811f11c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-23cefb7604e65da6] has joined #scheme 10:33:17 is there any (easy) way? 10:33:30 *aspect* returns to another discussion about an inadequate quoting system .. this one real 10:33:34 the easiest way is to use . 10:33:49 I don't know why you wanted to get rid of that before. 10:34:13 I didn't, but I couldn't get it to work with . either 10:34:33 is there a good way to figure out if an input is a single alphabetic char? char-alphabetic takes in the #\ char form, this would be like 'x 10:35:11 Your example is bizarre, and you're just giving snippets of things 10:35:19 similar to what you want to do. 10:35:23 Which makes it hard to help. 10:35:40 But if you really want (foo (1 2 3 4)) 10:35:46 instead of (foo 1 2 3 4) 10:35:51 then use (foo rest) => (list . rest) 10:36:18 I needed (foo (1 2 3 4) bar) 10:36:38 Then use what I wrote. 10:37:09 (syntax-rules () ((foo rest bar) (list . rest))) 10:37:33 dne: (= 1 (length (string->list (read-line fport))))? or smth like this? 10:37:45 NaNO2x [n=NaNO2x@vergil21.u.washington.edu] has joined #scheme 10:38:18 hmm i guess that would work 10:38:52 r5rs string-length 10:38:52 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_496 10:38:54 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5gt5v8 10:38:55 bah 10:40:08 *sladegen* kills #scheme. 10:40:43 *keyofnight* dies with it. 10:41:23 foof: it woks, thanks 10:41:27 works* 10:41:41 Does anyone use r6rs yet? 10:41:49 It woks too. syntax-rules makes an excellent stir-fry. 10:41:59 :) 10:42:16 keyofnight: Not for any serious projects. 10:42:17 *sladegen* woks alone 10:42:28 keyofnight: But keep an eye on Ikarus. 10:43:04 neet. 10:43:43 ok, this is dne, for some reason my client was dying on me, but yeah, so the params i'm taking are (name x y) and i'm wanting to check if y is a single char, it could be a list, a number, a single char, etc and i want the single char case 10:44:05 -!- dne [i=1811f11c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-23cefb7604e65da6] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 10:47:15 i mean the problem is that like (length 'a) is just erroring 10:47:21 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.186.97] has quit [] 10:47:26 NaNO2x: so what's the problem? 10:47:55 well i'm taking in something that is 'a - 'z 10:48:13 how can i figure out that it's that instead of say a list 10:48:59 rudybot: eval (char? ((lambda () #\a))) 10:48:59 sladegen: ; Value: #t 10:49:18 but i'm not given a #\a 10:49:21 i'm given a 'a 10:49:32 rudybot: eval (char? ((lambda () 'a))) 10:49:32 sladegen: ; Value: #f 10:49:39 rudybot: eval (symbol? ((lambda () 'a))) 10:49:39 sladegen: ; Value: #t 10:49:55 the problem is that 10:50:08 rudybot: eval(symbol? 'ab) 10:50:31 rudybot: eval (symbol? ((lambda () 'ab))) 10:50:32 NaNO2x: ; Value: #t 10:50:34 there 10:50:55 that should be false for the case i'm trying to produce 10:51:05 so you admit a single letter symbol, too 10:51:18 r5rs symbol->string 10:51:19 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_444 10:51:20 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3equbh 10:52:11 jgracin [n=jgracin@89-172-54-225.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 10:52:32 read r5rs from cover to cover once... you can do it over night methinks. 10:53:20 there we go 10:53:26 (= 1 (string-length (symbol->string 'ab))) 10:53:43 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 10:53:45 sladegen, if this was my only class i would 10:53:58 hell this assignment isn't even due for a while, i just need to get a jump 10:55:47 tbh i'll probably never use scheme again 10:55:51 after this class 10:55:56 and while it's interesting to me 10:56:03 i kinda need to focus on things i'll use for now 10:56:06 aww. :( 10:56:21 ok ok ok fsck you too ;-p 10:56:26 :P 10:56:35 just tellin it like it is 10:57:18 I feel you. The only reason I'm coding ruby and not scheme is that I need a site and know ruby better. hehehe 10:57:36 if you have 'info r5rs' there is an index use / on it... 10:57:39 see, i still haven't evolved from php 10:57:57 Oy. I gave up PHP so long ago. 10:58:03 though this class, the next language we will be working on is ruby 10:58:08 and then smalltalk 10:58:13 html version should have index too. 10:58:20 then i think we will be building a metacircular interpreter 10:58:23 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:58:27 That's interesting! ruby and smalltalk! 10:58:28 is there a non html version 10:58:42 while i like recursion in small doses, this is just a bit too much 10:58:50 i grew up on c damit! 10:59:04 I, honestly, don't know any language very well. 10:59:12 I'd like to learn scheme really well. 10:59:22 i don't know any language really well anymore 10:59:30 so, after finishing that class you'll not know scheme, ruby and smalltalk, heh. 10:59:37 but non interpreted langauges i can do fairly well 10:59:48 smalltalk actually seems interesting 11:00:00 and ruby i might use if it seems i can really make a difference from php 11:00:05 *foof* just realizes it's the beginning of the school year 11:00:07 because it's kinda a big upgrade at this point 11:00:10 ... in most of the world, anyway 11:00:16 foof, not quite beginning 11:00:22 1/4 down, 3/4 to go 11:00:30 speaking of learning... 11:00:32 of the first 1/4 11:00:33 :p 11:00:36 what's the recommended way to learn scheme? 11:00:47 apparently read the sicp 11:01:00 Eeesh. that book nearly killed me last time I tried. 11:01:13 I guess I'm not MIT CS material. lol 11:01:34 i have the language down fairly well, it's wrapping my head around everything being recursive and programming nicely, like not with fsking mutations 11:02:31 keyofnight: read a book? perhaps from the topic... teach scheme in fixnum days perhaps for "quickness" 11:03:13 keyofnight: HTDP gets recommended as a more human-accessible alternative to SICP 11:03:47 crazy humans 11:04:25 NaNO2x: if you "think" ruby (on rails) but seem to like smalltalk there is seaside... 11:05:30 welp, i've had a long day, i think i'm gonna hit the sack 11:05:32 4am and all 11:05:41 i'll be back in an hour or two to work on this more :P 11:06:40 the main point of this assignment is to write differentiations smartly 11:06:58 well less smartly, more modularized 11:07:54 -!- dnm [n=dnm@cpe-67-246-46-208.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [] 11:09:10 (define (diff f x) (/ (- (f (+ x (d x)) (f x)) (d x))) 11:09:13 done 11:15:39 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 11:23:13 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 11:33:16 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 11:35:06 foof` [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 11:43:15 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:44:02 foof`, scsh was not a viable alternative because it's full of broken and I don't have time to rewrite it. 11:44:15 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:44:36 Has SCSH been abandoned? 11:44:43 -!- foof [n=user@clair01.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:44:46 -!- foof` is now known as foof 11:47:59 eli, what I typed into the IRC channel with heredocs was missing a quote somewhere. If I fix the quotation, it certainly works to produce the same output in lots of shells. 11:48:57 gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host129-17-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 11:52:20 foof, it was pretty much abandoned several years ago. 11:52:58 Someone should turn off the FAQ postings then. 11:53:34 (Not to mention that it was broken before the postings; I just never scrutinized its code enough to notice how broken it was until a year or two ago.) 11:54:43 ...before the postings? 11:54:44 What specifically is broken? 11:54:48 Before it was abandoned. 11:55:05 Take all of the C code for example. 11:55:09 It's full of subtle GC-related bugs. 11:55:35 You can still build software on top of that. 11:55:41 Like my Emacs that keeps segfaulting. 11:56:05 I don't burn with rage every time that happens... 11:56:11 Here, for example, is a bug that I just found in scsh/network1.c: 11:57:26 Oops, that one's been fixed. 11:57:54 No, never mind, it hasn't. 11:58:25 S48_RECORD_SET (host_info, 0, s48_enter_string (host->h_name)); 11:59:35 foof, I'm not willing to build software on top of it until I'm willing to rewrite nearly all of it, because fundamentally its core is badly written and highly error-prone. 12:01:45 Ooh, here's a whole slew of bugs in scsh's STAT. 12:01:55 Half of the lines in the function are bugs. 12:02:58 foof, the difference between scsh and Emacs here is that at least someone else -- in fact, lots of other people -- are using and fixing Emacs. 12:14:43 "Half of the lines in the function are bugs." That's better than average! 12:26:36 ilSignorCarlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 12:30:29 SICP is complicated. :( 12:31:40 keyofnight: start slow and build. 12:32:13 How slow? 12:32:36 keyofnight: do 10 pages a day if you have to, to start with 12:32:50 work all the exercises 12:33:02 you can ask questions here 12:34:18 How'd you learn scheme, Adamant? 12:34:42 keyofnight: SICP, a bit of HTDP, and working on a Scheme-ish language. 12:35:34 Adamant: You wrote a scheme-a-like? 12:35:43 keyofnight: no, worked with someone who was 12:36:00 That's awesome. 12:36:26 keyofnight: what languages do you know already? 12:36:37 or are you starting from scratch 12:37:19 we can get you up to speed either way 12:37:24 I know a little c, a little ruby, a little php... 12:37:29 ah. 12:37:41 well if you know some Ruby, you can learn some Scheme 12:38:09 matz, the designer of Ruby, was very influenced by Scheme and Smalltalk when he wrote Ruby 12:38:23 he gives a lot of credit to both languages 12:39:10 the biggest difference between the two languages is macros 12:39:34 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 12:39:41 macros, eh? 12:39:57 don't concentrate on that yet, but when the time comes, if you can figure out macros, you'll have done a lot of what you need to do. 12:40:20 Adamant: and the poor broken blocks in ruby.. 12:40:34 is anyone here proficient in ruby and python? 12:41:06 I know both but I wouldn't call myself proficent in either. I think foof is good for both. 12:41:48 a friend who doesn't know either has to write a medium size script, which of them should i suggest? i know ruby, but almost no python ;) 12:42:02 either is fine 12:42:11 doesn't really matter than much 12:42:17 that's what i though ;) 12:42:21 in theory Python is nicer for newbies 12:42:39 I can't stand the mandatory whitespace. 12:42:59 But the language is nice. (: 12:43:20 i'd suggest Scheme, but he doesn't like it :( 12:43:34 also we don't have (portable) database interface libraries 12:44:59 (system "mysql ...") 12:45:06 if it's a script ;) 12:46:20 database interface libraries would be nice. 12:46:55 Riastradh: I think that something did look fishy in that version, but regardless, I think that the variable substitution version is much clearer (not to mention that it's much faster too, if speed makes any difference). 12:47:45 IMO, if you're getting to *those* kind of cases, then you're better off sticking with bash -- or you're in danger of ending with an autotools-lookalike... 12:53:29 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-201-22.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:58:42 xwl [n=user@221.221.155.21] has joined #scheme 12:59:44 Oh man! I'm officially a graduate! 13:00:09 Wow! 13:00:18 congrats 13:00:31 try not to fall into the 9 to 5 rat race now 13:01:46 Congratulations! 13:03:13 Thanks. (: 13:03:33 Grad school next, hopefully. That or freelancing. (: 13:04:38 xwl` [n=user@123.112.115.58] has joined #scheme 13:07:21 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 13:10:05 Riastradh: I was being sarcastic. 13:10:10 I'm about fed up with Emacs. 13:11:58 foof: start a Schemely editor! 13:12:51 -!- vega_ [i=vegard@cpe-211-23.vktv.no] has left #scheme 13:12:57 I wonder if I can still use textmate for scheme coding. 13:12:58 lol 13:13:04 I sort of doubt it. 13:20:19 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A3AF7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:08 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.155.21] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:25:27 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-195-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 13:28:40 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-206-125-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:40:12 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:43:20 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:55:44 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:55:49 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 14:06:00 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-5-43.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:08:40 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 14:09:49 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-58-207.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:21:36 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has quit ["bbl"] 14:24:03 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133117089.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 14:24:23 -!- xwl` [n=user@123.112.115.58] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:31:46 -!- cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 14:37:38 eli, if my goal were to write a useful, permanent program, I'd avoid using shell scripts in the first place. Using bash would require that I clutter the neurons devoted to shell scripting with half a zillion bells & whistles of bashisms that aren't useful to anyone whose default userland is not a GNU one, and if I plan to bring in an elaborate implementation of a hefty programming language for more permanent programs, there are m 14:37:54 cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:39:02 there are m and n and o and p... give me a q! 14:39:24 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B84669.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 14:40:51 ...much better options than bash. 14:41:48 The only real reason to use shell script in the first place is to avoid pulling in a dependency on a non-standard programming language, so using bash at all for anything except interactive use is awfully silly. 14:46:30 We need a scsh->sh compiler. 14:46:40 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:47:08 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 14:48:34 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host129-17-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 14:49:09 -!- cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 14:50:21 first do sh->scsh then simply invert it... 14:52:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:52:39 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@89-172-54-225.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:56:17 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:59:19 Riastradh: I completely agree. 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joined #scheme 19:21:43 -!- Jarvellis is now known as JHVH 19:23:22 evening 19:23:24 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0F79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:32 -!- sidewinder128 [n=chatzill@nttkyo589168.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:51 what non-r6rs Schemes do people here recommend these days? 19:24:17 well just exlude me then :( 19:24:46 you are r6rs? 19:24:52 yes 19:25:08 what is your Scheme? 19:25:14 IronScheme 19:25:26 that's the .net one? 19:25:40 yip 19:25:48 how well does it work on linux? 19:25:58 Chicken is non-r6rs 19:26:27 it runs very well under mono 1.9+, relatively good on 1.24 19:26:31 but slow 19:26:41 pretty slow on windows too :) 19:34:25 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 19:35:19 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:41:30 *leppie* kills syntax-case 19:42:07 hehe, why? 19:43:37 probably because i am doing soemthing wrong :( 19:45:15 but basically i am trying to do a source->source transform 19:46:55 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 19:49:42 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host195-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 20:00:40 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:59 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-72-23.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:04:39 schumaml [i=58804c90@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-67c90ff08d37aef7] has joined #scheme 20:07:02 ecraven: DrScheme and Gambit 20:09:00 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056481.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:44 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-68-60-17-78.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:14:14 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-72-23.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:15:05 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 20:20:27 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-195-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 20:24:59 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] 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-!- OceanSpray [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:43 Hello Everyone. 22:57:42 Hello Arcfide. 22:58:00 jcowan: What's new? 22:58:12 That is classified. 22:58:24 jcowan: Oh, come now, I've got the clearances, right? 22:58:38 *arcfide* slips you a small green paper. 22:59:17 *jcowan* slides the paper under a low arch on his desktop to see if it fits. Nope. 22:59:20 Sorry, no clearance here. 22:59:42 jcowan: I think you'll find it fits well in your wallet. 23:00:28 *jcowan* looks for wallet. 23:00:30 *jcowan* finds wallet. 23:00:34 *jcowan* opens wallet. 23:00:38 BOOOOMMMMM! 23:00:42 'Fraid not. 23:00:46 Drat. 23:00:48 Ah well. 23:01:00 A guy's gotta try, right? 23:01:12 *jcowan* returns the shreds of green paper to arcfide. 23:02:22 .oO(I've got to get me a new counterfeitter.) 23:03:04 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@67.161.236.94] has quit [] 23:03:32 Has anyone here seen an effort to develop a portable repository of scheme code which is not implementation or framework specific? 23:03:47 Sorry, a repository of portable scheme libraries. 23:04:08 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:06:21 snow, span, common-scheme... slib ;?) blam! 23:08:29 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [] 23:08:36 -!- brandelune [n=JC@pl323.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:08:41 -!- aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:08:58 sladegen: Snow was a framework, SLIB is a virus, the others? 23:09:56 sladegen: do you have URLs for span or common-scheme? 23:10:17 the other's are footnote in history... just like holy grail. 23:10:37 sladegen: Common-Scheme is a module system. 23:10:59 sladegen: I am looking for someone who has attempted to just collect or provide a means of collecting the code, not to enforce some usage on other people. 23:11:10 srfis have portable implementations? right? 23:11:47 sladegen: but that's a different thing than a repository. 23:12:11 I am just wondering if anyone has actually done this kind of thing before. 23:12:20 I'd be curious to see why it failed. 23:12:40 oh it was csan... a la cpan. 23:13:05 timeouts... 23:15:18 it's like anarchy. looks great on paper but benevolent monarch trumps the cards. 23:17:31 "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." 23:18:30 "If you set a million monkeys typing at a million keyboards, one will produce a correct Scheme program. The rest will produce correct Perl programs." 23:21:35 -!- bzren [n=bzren@77-233-72-20.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [] 23:27:33 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:29:40 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless128.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Success] 23:33:00 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 23:35:20 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:36:07 -!- ilSignorCarlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:45 aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:51 -!- viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:10 viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has joined #scheme 23:42:46 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:42:49 benny [n=benny@i577A1B3D.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 23:46:00 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:53:46 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme