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2017-08-01T07:49:18Z flip214: Xof++, for relieving all of us of realizing all the releasing in sbcl.
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2017-08-01T10:37:42Z phoe_: Can I destructively alter a FDEFN from inside SBCL?
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2017-08-01T12:24:40Z stassats: phoe_: what do you mean?
2017-08-01T12:34:43Z phoe_: stassats: I want to patch MAKE-CONDITION inside a running SBCL, so that all code refering to the original MAKE-CONDITION is directed to my custom code instead. Also, I want my custom MAKE-CONDITION to be able to call the original MAKE-CONDITION as a part of its functioning.
2017-08-01T12:35:16Z phoe_: Basically - I want to inject code around the original MAKE-CONDITION's body.
2017-08-01T12:35:54Z stassats: don't do that
2017-08-01T12:46:56Z phoe_: Okay.
2017-08-01T12:47:24Z phoe_: How, in SBCL, can I introduce constructors for conditions? Basically - functions that execute whenever a condition of given type is instantiated?
2017-08-01T12:47:55Z stassats: "don't do that"
2017-08-01T12:49:52Z phoe_: I want to do that - I have a use case for that.
2017-08-01T12:50:00Z stassats: your use case is wrong
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2017-08-01T13:42:15Z flip214: phoe_: would (TRACE ...) with :condition-all help your usecase?
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2017-08-01T13:56:25Z phoe_: flip214: not really.
2017-08-01T13:56:41Z phoe_: I want to make a condition class that should not be instantiated - only its subclasses should.
2017-08-01T13:59:56Z flip214: how about a slot with :initform (ERROR ...) which is overriden in child classes?
2017-08-01T14:00:20Z flip214: phoe_: ^^
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2017-08-01T14:01:04Z phoe_: flip214: sounds like a solution, but clients who subclass that condition will need to remember to need to override that slot.
2017-08-01T14:01:09Z phoe_: Ain't perfect, but works.
2017-08-01T14:01:33Z Shinmera: phoe_: I already suggested that hours ago in #lisp
2017-08-01T14:05:49Z phoe_: Shinmera: correct, I noticed that back then, except I did not want to settle for that and decided to dig a bit deeper.
2017-08-01T14:06:10Z phoe_: So, huh, time to stop digging.
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2017-08-01T14:58:59Z stassats: phoe_: don't export these conditions then
2017-08-01T14:59:41Z stassats: or just don't care
2017-08-01T15:00:05Z stassats: since this gives you nothing
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2017-08-01T15:02:06Z flip214: phoe_: you can also define an INITIALIZE-INSTANCE method for the base class that checks the exact class of the object and (ERROR)s out. same deal, but subclasses don't need to remember.
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2017-08-01T15:19:59Z phoe_: flip214: for the base class? which base class?
2017-08-01T15:23:10Z flip214: the base condition class you don't want instances created of
2017-08-01T15:23:37Z flip214: though I'm not sure whether that works for the class prototype; perhaps that method needs to check a special variable
2017-08-01T15:26:13Z flip214: that is set during your explicit call for finalize-class
2017-08-01T15:27:33Z flip214: or perhaps better check whether CLASS-PROTOTYPE is already set, and if it is, then do (ERROR)?
2017-08-01T15:27:54Z flip214: I guess this might be a good example for a meta-class ;)
2017-08-01T15:41:29Z phoe_: flip214: I can't do that. INITIALIZE-INSTANCE does not even get called when I make conditions.
2017-08-01T15:41:32Z phoe_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/352240
2017-08-01T15:42:16Z phoe_: That's my whole issue. I'd go INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AFTER if I could.
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2017-08-01T17:26:05Z flip214: phoe_: well, how about discussing to make
2017-08-01T17:26:07Z flip214:   (defun make-condition (type &rest initargs)
2017-08-01T17:26:13Z flip214: a DEFMETHOD instead?
2017-08-01T17:26:25Z flip214: would solve your issue, I guess.
2017-08-01T17:26:35Z stassats: just no
2017-08-01T17:26:38Z phoe_: ^
2017-08-01T17:26:42Z phoe_: flip214: end of discussion
2017-08-01T17:27:34Z stassats: just write in your condition documentation "only to be used by subclasses"
2017-08-01T17:28:03Z stassats: this is not a technical use case, just a "would be nice to have", but if "would be nice to have" goes against the language then it should be just dropped
2017-08-01T17:30:08Z flip214: oh yeah, this is a spec issue. well, how about (defmethod allocate-condition)? although that wouldn't help that much too,
2017-08-01T17:30:14Z flip214: I guess its package is locked.
2017-08-01T17:31:36Z flip214: hmmm, the condition system isn't using the CLOS mechanisms... for a good reason, I guess.
2017-08-01T17:34:40Z phoe_: flip214: AFAIK, CMUCL had conditions well before it had CLOS
2017-08-01T17:35:53Z stassats: flip214: i'm not willing to add an unportable extensions to support some remotely useful case
2017-08-01T17:45:32Z stassats: ugh, that arm thing, i so don't want to deal with it
2017-08-01T17:47:00Z scymtym: stassats: are you sure the code in EMIT-LOAD/STORE-INSTRUCTION is wrong and not the type inference?
2017-08-01T17:47:15Z stassats: scymtym: yeah
2017-08-01T17:47:28Z stassats: it does (tn-offset base) after (label-p base)
2017-08-01T17:48:39Z scymtym: isn't that outside the (LABEL-P ...) clause, i.e. when LABEL-P is false?
2017-08-01T17:49:10Z stassats: nope, inside
2017-08-01T17:49:19Z stassats: both
2017-08-01T17:50:00Z stassats: so i have no idea what should it be encoding
2017-08-01T17:50:04Z scymtym: hm, i will have to look again
2017-08-01T17:50:12Z stassats: i have to come with a test case, get the arm spec, etc.
2017-08-01T17:52:16Z scymtym: haha, i have been looking at EMIT-LOAD/STORE-INSTRUCTION instead of EMIT-MISC-LOAD/STORE-INSTRUCTION. that explains it
2017-08-01T17:52:37Z stassats: does it offer a fix?
2017-08-01T17:53:02Z stassats: i think it does
2017-08-01T17:53:05Z stassats: now for a test case
2017-08-01T17:53:28Z scymtym: it uses EMIT-DP-INSTRUCTION at the corresponding position
2017-08-01T17:56:33Z stassats: it's only used for byte/half-word loads
2017-08-01T17:57:31Z stassats: never against a label
2017-08-01T17:59:52Z stassats: will do the obvious fix and not test it
2017-08-01T18:01:06Z slyrus: my lazy mind read that as "well, the obvious fix is not to test it". sounds legit.
2017-08-01T18:01:25Z stassats: i doubt it'll ever be invoked
2017-08-01T18:01:44Z stassats: but the fix appears to be right, using pc-offset
2017-08-01T18:03:40Z stassats: dougk_: are you planning on making structure reads and writes using narrower load/stores?
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2017-08-01T21:18:02Z stassats: huh, read-char conses on darwin
2017-08-01T21:18:47Z stassats: can't profile it...
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2017-08-01T21:32:59Z stassats: because of WAIT-UNTIL-FD-USABLE
2017-08-01T21:33:15Z stassats: a working sprof would have saved me 20 minutes
2017-08-01T21:36:29Z stassats: and that's because sb-alien is broken
2017-08-01T21:36:36Z stassats: (consing, that is)
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2017-08-01T21:58:30Z stassats: looks like i can put some sense into sb-alien by using... setf-functions
2017-08-01T21:58:41Z stassats: instead of defsetf, which introduces variables
2017-08-01T21:59:08Z stassats: hm, but setf functions do too
2017-08-01T22:04:18Z phoe_ is now known as phoe
2017-08-01T22:06:48Z stassats: no, sb-alien is hopeless
2017-08-01T22:09:06Z stylewarning: Where in the source should I learn more about SB-ALIEN and it's interaction with the C ABI?
2017-08-01T22:09:31Z stassats: M-.
2017-08-01T22:16:32Z stylewarning: Ok
2017-08-01T22:16:47Z stassats: but it blows, don't bother
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2017-08-01T22:19:42Z stylewarning: Why is the doc policy to comment for non-public functions?
2017-08-01T22:20:23Z stylewarning: (Actually the policy seems to be "document as sparingly as possible")
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2017-08-01T22:22:50Z stylewarning: Is there a way to get an object's SAP for purposes of using with FORTRAN ABI's
2017-08-01T22:23:05Z stassats: what object?
2017-08-01T22:23:19Z stylewarning: Things like fixnums and floats
2017-08-01T22:23:33Z stassats: those are not really objects
2017-08-01T22:23:50Z stylewarning: Data that reside somewhere locatable by an address
2017-08-01T22:24:41Z stassats: fixnums and floats are not such things
2017-08-01T22:25:04Z stassats: just go through a C layer
2017-08-01T22:25:42Z stylewarning: Ok but Fortran expects a reference
2017-08-01T22:26:38Z stylewarning: And currently I'm allocating and copying, which seems a little heavy handed
2017-08-01T22:26:55Z stassats: allocating what?
2017-08-01T22:27:56Z stylewarning: Allocating sizeof(float) to get a pointer, which I can deref and set
2017-08-01T22:28:14Z stassats: there's no other way
2017-08-01T22:28:31Z Bike: you can do it on the stack though, right?
2017-08-01T22:28:32Z stassats: floats have no address
2017-08-01T22:29:25Z stylewarning: Doesn't the C ABI push them on the stack for a call?
2017-08-01T22:29:36Z stassats: which C ABI?
2017-08-01T22:29:45Z stassats: some do
2017-08-01T22:30:02Z stylewarning: AMD64 on Linux?
2017-08-01T22:30:21Z stassats: XMM registers
2017-08-01T22:30:27Z stylewarning: (I am ignorant of the precise rules of the ABI on any platform and am relying on imprecise tribal knowledge.)
2017-08-01T22:31:01Z stassats: until they run out, but they rarely do
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2017-08-01T22:36:31Z stylewarning: I need to vastly improve my knowledge of low level layout of things
2017-08-01T22:39:10Z whoman: things
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2017-08-01T22:50:40Z stylewarning: Well not "objects" apparently
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2017-08-01T22:58:41Z whoman: that which is layed out, yeah..
2017-08-01T22:59:11Z Bike: this is pretty simple. fortran doesn't expect a float or whatever, it expects a memory location. sbcl just keeps floats in registers if it can, so there isn't necessarily a memory location that has the value of the float in it.
2017-08-01T22:59:46Z stassats: sbcl already works with C, just call fortran from C
2017-08-01T23:00:24Z Bike: i don't know much fortran, but for C if you ran into this you'd use with-foreign-object or whatever sb-alien equivalent to allocate some memory (on the stack, so it's cheap) and put the float in there from the register
2017-08-01T23:03:07Z stylewarning: I'm using WITH-* and it works. It makes for messy code, esp. when dealing with things like complex doubles
2017-08-01T23:05:26Z whoman: more macros
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2017-08-01T23:07:04Z stylewarning: I'm sure I could make a joke about macros like the regex joke. "Now you got two problems" etc
2017-08-01T23:07:52Z stassats: sb-alien gives me 99 problems
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2017-08-01T23:08:02Z Bike: in C it's a little easier since you can say "int a; f(&a);" and the compiler will go "ah, i can't just keep 'a' in a register" implicitly. C is so high-level
2017-08-01T23:08:06Z stassats: so, what's one more?
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2017-08-01T23:09:00Z stassats: then it goes "jk, i inlined F"
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2017-08-02T08:27:18Z phoe: from #lisp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/352293 <- on 1.3.14.debian the file contains "admin@my-system.com" where on 1.3.20 it contains #A((19) BASE-CHAR . "admin@my-system.com")
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2017-08-02T09:19:16Z scymtym: phoe: in sbcl, there is a distinction between strings with base-char and character elements. printing a string (of either kind) that only contains potential base-chars as "CHARS" does not encode which kind it originally was. older sbcl versions did this, but when printing readably, this is obviously a problem since print then read would no longer roundtrip
2017-08-02T09:19:54Z scymtym: to fix this, printed representation you observed has been introduced
2017-08-02T09:20:55Z phoe: scymtym: I see. Is there some kind of special variable that controls specifically this behaviour?
2017-08-02T09:21:13Z phoe: Like - "switches" between the old and the new ways?
2017-08-02T09:22:57Z scymtym: not specifically, but *PRINT-READABLY*, among other things, controls this
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2017-08-02T09:36:36Z Harag: how would I cast/coerce a simple-base-string to a char array?
2017-08-02T09:40:52Z scymtym: in case of the paste, i think the root cause is a recent optimization for FORMAT that lets it output BASE-STRINGs, when possible
2017-08-02T09:42:48Z Harag: scymtym: ok, for now I just need a work around and simple-base-string does not seem to coerce to anything, this is getting lower level than my skills cover
2017-08-02T09:43:40Z scymtym: Harag: what do you want to achieve?
2017-08-02T09:44:23Z Harag: "admin@my-system.com" instead of #A((19) BASE-CHAR . "admin@my-system.com")
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2017-08-02T09:48:18Z scymtym: Harag: i mean more generally. who will consume the file you write?
2017-08-02T09:49:25Z Harag: scymtym: at the moment lisp and humans
2017-08-02T09:49:53Z Harag: so I can live with it for now, just not pretty thats all
2017-08-02T09:53:12Z scymtym: if you intend to READ the file back with SBCL, there should be no problem. on the contrary: if your code works with BASE-STRINGs, a print-read cycle turning them into CHARACTER STRINGs could lead to problems
2017-08-02T09:54:24Z Harag: just curious what would this do to some of libraries out there that produce html or jason?
2017-08-02T09:55:42Z Shinmera: Harag: what do you mean?
2017-08-02T09:56:04Z Shinmera: Those libraries won't PRINT/PPRINT lisp code structures, so
2017-08-02T09:57:58Z Harag: ok
2017-08-02T09:58:29Z Shinmera: Generally if you have a data format that is not lisp code, writing your own printer is the sane choice anyway.
2017-08-02T09:59:38Z Harag: the data format is a proper list so its lisp code just very simple
2017-08-02T10:00:30Z Harag: I will look into this again if it becomes an issue, right now I just need to get some work done, thanx for the advise and feedback
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2017-08-02T15:20:59Z dougk_: stassats: re. shorter instance reads/writes, it's something i'm thinking about. no plan currently
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2017-08-02T18:26:21Z dougk_: I am pushing some changes that once working will help me verify that every backend builds, highly parallelized. Exciting stuff.
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2017-08-02T20:34:24Z Xof: so, anyone want to tell me how to build sbcl on windows these days?
2017-08-02T20:34:39Z phoe: Xof: it's pretty simple, actually
2017-08-02T20:34:59Z Xof: I have breakage in make-target-1 with a bunch of posixish functions with conflicting types
2017-08-02T20:35:06Z Xof: (msys2, win10)
2017-08-02T20:35:13Z phoe: msys2 is the way to go
2017-08-02T20:35:23Z phoe: Xof: which tests break?
2017-08-02T20:36:15Z Xof: not nearly at the tests point
2017-08-02T20:36:26Z Xof: failing to build the runtime
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2017-08-02T20:36:49Z Xof: the first error is conflicting types for sigset_t
2017-08-02T20:36:53Z phoe: ouch!
2017-08-02T20:37:13Z phoe: Xof: which version/commit are you building?
2017-08-02T20:37:48Z Xof: HEAD
2017-08-02T20:37:58Z Xof: but I'm sure that it's likely to be something that I'm doing wrong
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2017-08-02T20:38:14Z phoe: that might be an issue though. I was building SBCL .17 some time ago and it built fine for me
2017-08-02T20:38:24Z phoe: perhaps try building an earlier version first
2017-08-02T20:39:06Z Xof: when you run msys2, do you run the msys shell or one of the mingw ones?
2017-08-02T20:40:03Z phoe: I run the respective mingw shell
2017-08-02T20:40:13Z phoe: if I built 32-bit sbcl, I run the 32-bit shell
2017-08-02T20:40:35Z Xof: let's see if that makes a difference
2017-08-02T20:42:26Z Xof: ... yes it does
2017-08-02T20:42:31Z Xof: on to make-host-2
2017-08-02T20:42:33Z Xof: thank you
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2017-08-02T20:50:02Z Xof: (brb installing diff-utils)
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2017-08-02T20:56:50Z Xof: ok, apparently make-target-contrib doesn't like spaces in my home directory
2017-08-02T20:56:57Z Xof: but I have some kind of sbcl built
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2017-08-03T10:55:51Z stassats: how hard is it to update all the Unicode data?
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2017-08-03T11:04:36Z stassats: where does allkeys.txt come from?
2017-08-03T11:05:04Z stassats: UCA
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2017-08-03T11:23:08Z stassats: now all unicode tests break
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2017-08-03T11:55:36Z Shinmera: stassats`: Any idea how to call methods like this from CommonQt? http://doc.qt.io/qt-4.8/qinputdialog.html#getInt The bool *ok parameter is giving me trouble. Passing a pointer there simply gives me a "no applicable method"
2017-08-03T11:57:19Z stassats`: do you need it?
2017-08-03T11:57:31Z stassats`: will nil/0/null-pointer suffice?
2017-08-03T11:57:36Z Shinmera: Yes, in order to know whether the user pressed cancel or not.
2017-08-03T11:57:54Z Shinmera: If it returned NIL on failure that'd be Ok by me too.
2017-08-03T11:58:22Z stassats`: are you sure it's because of ok?
2017-08-03T11:59:38Z Shinmera: Ah- balls, I passed a bad max value. Sorry for the noise.
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2017-08-03T12:40:33Z hlavaty: hi somewhere between 8d154f to b1e83e was compilation with ccl, cmucl and clisp broken.
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2017-08-03T12:51:27Z stassats`: ok, unicode 10.0 has changed more than just the data files
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2017-08-03T13:01:03Z stassats`: so, yeah, i'm not going to be the one updating to 10.0
2017-08-03T13:01:06Z stassats`: at least not now
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2017-08-03T15:04:10Z dougk_: hlavaty: i see the problem.
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2017-08-03T15:07:35Z hlavaty: dougk_: ok, thanks!
2017-08-03T15:08:52Z hlavaty: source forge rejected my email so it's without error logs this time, only via irc
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2017-08-03T22:43:31Z stylewarning: does SBCL have a built-in function to check the existence of an alien function (extra credit if it can be checked from a particular foreign lib)?
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2017-08-03T23:07:11Z |3b|: stylewarning: could try whatever is called by cffi:foreign-symbol-pointer (though that doesn't guarantee it is a function specifically)
2017-08-03T23:21:19Z stylewarning: Let me check that out
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2017-08-04T04:28:17Z stylewarning: |3b|: works good enough for me. Thanks for the suggestion!
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2017-08-04T16:56:43Z fe[nl]ix: dougk_: is it possible that the MSAN warning is caused by strcpy being vectorized, and if it works on a word at a time it can briefly read past the NUL terminator ?
2017-08-04T16:57:53Z fe[nl]ix: I didn't feel like disassembling that function to trace its execution
2017-08-04T16:58:07Z dougk_: fe[nl]ix: if the implementation of strcpy() had this problem with MSAN, then everybody in the world would have it, no?
2017-08-04T17:00:37Z fe[nl]ix: depends on what MSAN considers as "uninitialized"
2017-08-04T17:01:03Z fe[nl]ix: zeroing the buffer or reusing one would not trigger this
2017-08-04T17:02:25Z dougk_: i wonder if it's because we didn't compile the actual C code with -fsanitize=.  I have a build that does that. It doesn't run yet.
2017-08-04T17:03:07Z dougk_: in other words, you are suggesting that quite possibly the C compiler knows that it should zero-fill, if sanitizing, and I wouldn't dis-believe it
2017-08-04T17:04:25Z fe[nl]ix: yes. why doesn't it run ?
2017-08-04T17:07:06Z stassats: relocatable cores are in, what's left for sbcl.so?
2017-08-04T17:07:13Z fe[nl]ix: also, the entire trick of stack-allocating the argument to readlink() then strcpy() just saves a bit less than PATH_MAX(4k?)
2017-08-04T17:07:15Z fe[nl]ix: could have been done with calloc() + realloc()
2017-08-04T17:07:21Z stassats: relocatable static spaces? no signals?
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2017-08-04T17:18:44Z dougk_: i'm working on relocatable immobile space, and also i restored operation of gencgc without the sigsegv handler. Slow as hell, but a lifesaver when debugging something that causes our sigsegv handler to add 700 stack frames of noise to the problem
2017-08-04T17:20:00Z dougk_: i don't know why it doesn't run, to answer your question from several lines ago. If i knew, it would run.
2017-08-04T17:20:39Z stassats: dougk_: software barriers shouldn't add that much overhead
2017-08-04T17:21:11Z dougk_: yeah, that's what pvk claimed as well
2017-08-04T17:22:04Z stassats: sb-safepoint uses hardware barriers and isn't much different in performance to the signal approach
2017-08-04T17:22:11Z stassats: except that sb-safepoint is broken
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2017-08-04T17:31:56Z dougk_: apropos of this, in the gencgc page tables, it is never correct to set the 'write_protected_cleared' bit to 0. All you can ever do is set it to 1. We should remove it
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2017-08-04T18:52:52Z stassats: dougk_: should all the memsets be replaced with bzero?
2017-08-04T18:53:26Z stassats: but one
2017-08-04T19:02:11Z dougk_: i thought bzero was the deprecated one actually
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2017-08-04T20:41:59Z stassats: dougk_: ok, but we have both
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2017-08-05T00:21:22Z pkhuong_: re write barriers, we can use soft dirty page tracking on linux.
2017-08-05T00:21:50Z pkhuong_: that'd also help with the VMA count
2017-08-05T00:23:16Z pkhuong_: I hacked a prototype in a couple years ago, and there was ~0 performance difference. suboptimal interactions with THP, but that might have been fixed now (tmpfs-backed huge pages definitely work correctly with soft dirty)
2017-08-05T00:24:15Z pkhuong_: if we don't want to catch sigsegv for STW, we could mmap in a STW code page.
2017-08-05T00:25:39Z pkhuong_: make sure that stop point instructions have enough bytes for a call, and mmap in a copy that has a call to the STW handler instead of that instruction.
2017-08-05T00:27:34Z pkhuong_: we use cross-modifying code at $WORK, but there's a bunch of chips where that might trigger a HW bug and hang. mmap should force each core to handle an IPI before observing the new code, so that's safe.
2017-08-05T00:29:57Z pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong
2017-08-05T00:44:08Z stassats: is it time for "WARNING: Implicitly creating new generic function" to go?
2017-08-05T00:45:32Z stassats: first of all, why is it even a WARNING, that doesn't make any sense
2017-08-05T00:46:11Z pkhuong: IIRC implicit creation is implementation defined
2017-08-05T00:46:30Z pkhuong: we do tend to warn on code that triggers implementation defined behaviour
2017-08-05T00:47:13Z stassats: dunno, seems pretty clear to me
2017-08-05T00:47:28Z stassats: besides, nobody cares about these warnings (i don't)
2017-08-05T00:48:24Z stassats: a situation where (defmethod foo) is followed by (defgeneric foo) is more notable
2017-08-05T00:54:28Z stassats: i'm strongly for the removal that warning
2017-08-05T00:57:29Z stassats: instead, things like (defmethod b ()) (defgeneric b () (:method-class x)) should be reported
2017-08-05T01:03:48Z stassats: though, WARNING: redefining COMMON-LISP-USER::B in DEFGENERIC is probably enough
2017-08-05T01:04:27Z stassats: besides, the amount of people who do employ custom generic functions and methods classes is minuscule
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2017-08-05T02:04:22Z oleo: a method definition will create a gf (if there's non defined so far)
2017-08-05T02:04:56Z oleo: and if you first define a method that's what happens and the gf you create later overwrites the implicitly created one....
2017-08-05T02:05:40Z oleo: so it's a warning of "dude whatever you want, i defined one already for you, but you must know better...there you go"
2017-08-05T02:08:04Z oleo: and the other is a warning of "you defined a method without giving me a gf for it first, so i create it for you"
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2017-08-05T11:26:30Z Xof: the original motivation behind the warning on defmethod-without-defgeneric was to defend against hard-to-spot typos
2017-08-05T11:27:10Z Xof: (defmethod frobnicate ((x t)) 'a) (defmethod fronbicate ((x integer)) 'b) (frobnicate 3) => A ; huh
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2017-08-05T15:30:25Z pkhuong: Xof: that sounds more like a style warning
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2017-08-05T20:05:26Z stassats: Xof: too many false positives to actually be useful
2017-08-05T20:06:26Z stassats: i was thinking about (optimize sb-ext:pedantic) and also stuffing the (&optional &key) warning there
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2017-08-05T21:49:49Z fiddlerwoaroof: Is there any way to get the return value of a traced function in :print-after or :condition-after?
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2017-08-05T22:03:54Z stassats: SB-DEBUG:ARG
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2017-08-05T22:07:41Z fiddlerwoaroof: Doesn't that return the arguments passed to the function?
2017-08-05T22:07:55Z stassats: does it?
2017-08-05T22:08:20Z fiddlerwoaroof: Let me see, the only information I can find about that has it called like (sb-debug:arg 0)
2017-08-05T22:09:45Z fiddlerwoaroof: Interesting, (sb-debug:arg 0) is the return value...
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2017-08-06T07:56:11Z rub_ixCube: where could I learn SBCL Lisp?
2017-08-06T07:56:54Z phoe: rub_ixCube: do you mean Common Lisp? SBCL is an implementation of it.
2017-08-06T07:57:34Z phoe: Common Lisp is a standard, a document. SBCL is one of the many programs that provide a language adhering to that standard.
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2017-08-06T08:00:39Z whoman: rub_ixCube, many free books and tutorials for lisp on the web. a good way to learn is to install it and explore and play with it.
2017-08-06T08:03:13Z phoe: rub_ixCube: in case of the first, #clnoobs is a channel specialized for that, and one of the first books you'll get suggested is Practical Common Lisp available online at gigamonkeys.com
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2017-08-06T17:28:39Z stassats: working on (defun foo (x) (find #\x x :test #'=)) =>
2017-08-06T17:28:48Z stassats: ; caught WARNING: ;   The function = called by FIND with zeroth arguments of type STANDARD-CHAR, which conflicts with NUMBER.
2017-08-06T17:39:34Z stassats: (find x "abcd" :test #'=) => ;   The function = called by FIND with the elements of the first argument of type (SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (4)), which conflict with NUMBER.
2017-08-06T17:39:44Z stassats: a mouthful
2017-08-06T17:41:34Z stassats: just need to handle :key
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2017-08-06T18:22:04Z stassats: that handled, (find 1 "abcd") can note style-warn about it always returning NIL
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2017-08-06T20:06:57Z stassats: (reduce #'+ x :key #'code-char) =>  The function + called by REDUCE with the results of the :key function CODE-CHAR of type CHARACTER which conflict with NUMBER.
2017-08-06T20:08:04Z oleo: try char-code
2017-08-06T20:08:14Z stassats: try paying attention
2017-08-06T20:09:29Z oleo: you mean char-code won't be number too ?
2017-08-06T20:09:39Z stassats: read the logs
2017-08-06T20:10:04Z oleo: sorry i don't have any
2017-08-06T20:10:20Z stassats: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/sbcl/sbcl-2017-08.txt
2017-08-06T20:10:37Z phoe: oleo: AFAIK, stassats is working on implementing these type warnings in SBCL
2017-08-06T20:11:17Z phoe: so you get type warnings when you use HOFs at compile-time
2017-08-06T20:11:34Z oleo: which type does it pay attention to ? arg-type or ftype ?
2017-08-06T20:11:41Z stassats: another idea: (member "abc" list) => nothing that it will never be found, try using :test #'equal
2017-08-06T20:11:58Z oleo: hmm
2017-08-06T20:12:02Z stassats: just has to make sure that "abc" is not shared with anything, although would be useful
2017-08-06T20:12:25Z phoe: stassats: so basically detecting types that cannot be matched using #'eq or #'eql? sounds nice
2017-08-06T20:12:33Z stassats: i think i spent countless time on (member "abc" list) not working
2017-08-06T20:13:13Z stassats: (find 1 "abc") is easier, no false positives
2017-08-06T20:15:37Z phoe: stassats: for (member "abc" list), it might be ambiguous - does SBCL do any constant-folding, or is the #\" reader macro always creating a fresh string?
2017-08-06T20:15:52Z stassats: sbcl constant folds
2017-08-06T20:15:57Z phoe: in the second case you can always fire the warning, in the first - that string might---
2017-08-06T20:16:05Z stassats: but it's possible to detect sharing
2017-08-06T20:16:25Z phoe: oh - so you can use that and fire warnings only when they would be correct.
2017-08-06T20:16:27Z stassats: i think it's easily possible, haven't tried yet
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2017-08-06T20:17:10Z stassats: but i think it's a good idea to just always signal at least a note
2017-08-06T20:17:32Z phoe: I think the same - the implementation is not required to constant-fold, so portable code should not depend on this
2017-08-06T20:17:35Z stassats: since i can't think anyone relying on sharing for this to work
2017-08-06T20:17:55Z stassats: phoe: #1= should work, but that's silly code
2017-08-06T20:18:03Z stassats: and macros
2017-08-06T20:18:36Z phoe: stassats: in case of macros I'd fire a note anyway
2017-08-06T20:18:47Z phoe: and in case of #1= - huh
2017-08-06T20:18:49Z stassats: i'm not so certain about macros now
2017-08-06T20:19:02Z stassats: could be legitimate
2017-08-06T20:19:09Z phoe: like, someone could write a macro that would use this as a feature
2017-08-06T20:19:10Z phoe: hm.
2017-08-06T20:20:25Z phoe: EQ-comparing strings inside macros... hm
2017-08-06T20:20:46Z stassats: and i think defconstant produces the same code from this, so, no go without ensuring no sharing
2017-08-06T20:21:33Z phoe: to sum it up - you will have to ensure that nothing is shared in order to produce these notes, correct?
2017-08-06T20:22:37Z stassats: only for the string/eql case, yes
2017-08-06T20:22:59Z stassats: i just got rid of an obnoxious warning, don't need to add another
2017-08-06T20:23:22Z phoe: there's also the crazy case of equalp-comparing arrays
2017-08-06T20:23:29Z phoe: that is somewhat similar
2017-08-06T20:23:35Z stassats: (and after removing a warning, i decided to give some warnings back, but legitimate ones)
2017-08-06T20:23:55Z stassats: the implicitly defining generic function, that is
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2017-08-06T20:26:27Z phoe: I actually used that one
2017-08-06T20:26:44Z phoe: to tell me that I am missing a defgeneric for a defmethod
2017-08-06T20:27:17Z stassats: wrote you down for the (optimize sb-ext:pedantic) option
2017-08-06T20:27:36Z phoe: can I set this optimization in the sbclrc?
2017-08-06T20:27:43Z stassats: not implemented
2017-08-06T20:27:53Z phoe: but will be?
2017-08-06T20:28:08Z stassats: if there's enough interest and motivation
2017-08-06T20:28:23Z stassats: would you be willing to implement it?
2017-08-06T20:28:38Z phoe: I'll most likely need some help since it'll be my first deep dive into SBCL, but sure
2017-08-06T20:28:50Z stassats: it's not deep
2017-08-06T20:28:58Z stassats: it's signalled only from one place
2017-08-06T20:29:13Z phoe: count me in then
2017-08-06T20:29:20Z stassats: and then there's adjusting the policies.lisp file
2017-08-06T20:29:51Z phoe: /src/compiler/policy.lisp ?
2017-08-06T20:30:01Z stassats: policies
2017-08-06T20:30:33Z phoe: I can't find it in the source tree
2017-08-06T20:30:50Z stassats: right beside policy.lisp
2017-08-06T20:31:12Z phoe: d'oh
2017-08-06T20:31:16Z phoe: github search is outright stupid
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2017-08-06T20:36:27Z stassats: could make stash (find "abc" sequence) under sb-ext:pedantic too
2017-08-06T20:36:47Z phoe: stash?
2017-08-06T20:36:55Z stassats: s/make//
2017-08-06T20:38:52Z phoe: stassats: I don't think it should be pedantic though
2017-08-06T20:39:07Z phoe: if there's no sharing, it's effectively a NOP
2017-08-06T20:39:19Z stassats: can't have false positives
2017-08-06T20:39:19Z phoe: and most likely a programmer mistake
2017-08-06T20:39:30Z phoe: if there's no sharing
2017-08-06T20:39:37Z stassats: a false positive warning does more harm than no warning
2017-08-06T20:40:09Z phoe: if you can assure there's no sharing, you can safely emit it though
2017-08-06T20:40:24Z phoe: and if you can't assure it, you can only display it when pedantic
2017-08-06T20:41:13Z phoe: with comment "possibly wrong test function" or something.
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2017-08-07T12:59:58Z stassats: forward referenced classes mess up SB-KERNEL::%COMPILER-DEFCLASS
2017-08-07T13:01:01Z phoe: how so?
2017-08-07T13:01:13Z stassats: by being wrong
2017-08-07T13:01:45Z phoe: forward referenced classes are wrong, or SB-KERNEL::%COMPILER-DEFCLASS is wrong?
2017-08-07T13:02:26Z stassats: sorry, i'm not looking for questions about it
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2017-08-07T13:45:16Z stassats: forward referenced classes only bothered the overconfident can-optimize-access
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2017-08-07T16:54:51Z stassats: hmm, type derivation info is lost after a transform is applied
2017-08-07T16:56:41Z stassats: and i don't want to multiply type derivers
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2017-08-07T18:00:57Z stassats: strange, when i try to replicated it does preserve the type
2017-08-07T18:01:45Z stassats: ah, the &key is required to be present in the transform lambda-list
2017-08-07T18:02:14Z stassats: so all the optional processing stuff interferes
2017-08-07T18:05:19Z stassats: it couldn't be a regression, could it?
2017-08-07T18:08:03Z pkhuong: sometimes losing type derivation after a transform isn't a regression.
2017-08-07T18:08:42Z stassats: i mean an sbcl regression, but this appears to be old
2017-08-07T18:09:19Z pkhuong: yeah I mean that's not an SBCL regression, it's been that way for ages
2017-08-07T18:09:45Z stassats: parsed as "sometimes it's not a regression"
2017-08-07T18:10:17Z pkhuong: I never really looked at complex lambda lists, so I don't remember if that's a new way to lose derivation info.
2017-08-07T18:10:43Z stassats: probably locall not doing enough
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2017-08-07T18:55:43Z stassats: can't catch where that happens
2017-08-07T19:18:19Z stassats: giving up for now
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2017-08-08T09:08:02Z hlavaty: dougk_: thanks for fixing the build with ccl and cmucl, however clisp still doesnt build since somewhere between 	8d154f to b1e83e
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2017-08-08T17:08:31Z dougk_: hlavaty: clisp seems to be unhappy with my change from *compile-file-truename* to *c-f-pathname*.  I hope i don't have to conditionalize it, but that's certainly a possibility
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2017-08-08T17:15:54Z dougk_: incidentally, and i'm not it's unrelated to CLISP, i don't interpret http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss060_w.htm the way it's implemented. compile-file merges the output pathname with the input, but it says *unspecified* components are taken from the input. I agree with that.
2017-08-08T17:16:30Z dougk_: What i don't agree with is that an input of "foo/bar/baz.lisp" and :output-file "other-dir/mumble.fasl" should actually compile into "foo/bar/baz/other-dir/mumble.fasl" because it wasn't an *unspecified* directory
2017-08-08T17:16:43Z dougk_: CLISP does what I want, SBCL and others do what I don't want
2017-08-08T17:17:53Z dougk_: so it actually does all come back to behavior on a build system where every file is actuall named /work/{random-3-letter-prefix}/{md5hash} of the file, which is the thing i was trying to fix by my change
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2017-08-09T04:06:30Z nexxus: hi all
2017-08-09T04:09:04Z nexxus: Can you help me with hunchentoot web-server ? I trying to set document-root for acceptor (in make-instance function) but it is doesn`t work ... How I can setting up correctly ?
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2017-08-09T13:45:52Z hlavaty: dougk_: thanks, clisp build works now too
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2017-08-09T15:35:02Z eudoxia: quick question
2017-08-09T15:35:08Z eudoxia: the SBCL sources say https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/bb1e50f538da92593b4302603ccb2bc173bdef2d/src/pcl/slots.lisp#L251-L253
2017-08-09T15:35:44Z eudoxia: but page 76 of https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/Functions.pdf says slot-exists-p should be implemented with slot-exists-p-using-class
2017-08-09T15:36:06Z eudoxia: it would be useful to be able to customize the behaviour of slot-exists-p using the MOP
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2017-08-09T15:37:16Z Bike: it says that in CLHS, but the MOP actually leaves out slot-exists-p.
2017-08-09T15:38:00Z eudoxia: but AMOP describes an implementation in Closette
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2017-08-09T15:38:20Z eudoxia: although I suppose Chapter 5 doesn't list it in chapter 6
2017-08-09T15:38:20Z pkhuong: eudoxia: " Subsequent changes will be
2017-08-09T15:38:21Z pkhuong: handled through the usual editorial and cleanup processes."
2017-08-09T15:38:44Z pkhuong: the draft is a bit older than the final spec.
2017-08-09T15:39:09Z eudoxia: pkhuong: and the final spec leaves out slot-exists-p-using-class?
2017-08-09T15:39:53Z eudoxia: what a sad omission. I'm trying to implement a silly hack just to show the power of the MOP and it's kinda impossible without faking the existence of slots
2017-08-09T15:40:00Z Bike: that's what i mean, those particular chapters are the MOP "standard", not the appendix. not that amop is actually a standard
2017-08-09T15:40:29Z Bike: "silly hack" doesn't sound very enticing
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2017-08-09T15:42:26Z eudoxia: no, it doesn't :) basically, I'm trying to define metaclasses to allocate slot values in a way other than the CLOS implementation default
2017-08-09T15:43:22Z eudoxia: but 1) customizing allocate-instance is undefined 2) PCL will allocate space for all the effective slots in my metaclass 3) i can't customize the behaviour of slot-exists-p, so I can't make the metaclass's compute-slots method return nil and handle everything on my own
2017-08-09T15:44:31Z Bike: i don't think customizing allocate-instance is undefined.
2017-08-09T15:44:52Z Bike: i think making compute-slots lie might be, though
2017-08-09T15:45:13Z Shinmera: clhs says: "The consequences of adding methods to allocate-instance is unspecified. This capability might be added by the Metaobject Protocol."
2017-08-09T15:45:24Z eudoxia: yeah what Shin said
2017-08-09T15:46:04Z eudoxia: hmm, it might be workable
2017-08-09T15:46:15Z Bike: i think doing so is fine in the mop.
2017-08-09T15:46:24Z Shinmera: however, the mop entry on allocate-instance mentions nothing about it being forbidden.
2017-08-09T15:46:35Z Shinmera: I just says "see also hyperspec"
2017-08-09T15:46:46Z Shinmera: Which I don't know how to interpret to be honest.
2017-08-09T15:46:56Z eudoxia: is there a way to create an instance of some class but ensure CLOS doesn't create any value storage for it? I realize this question is kinda vague
2017-08-09T15:47:24Z Bike: not really. if you're taking over allocate-instance you have to do the whole thing.
2017-08-09T15:47:52Z Bike: if i remember the mop example right, it added an extra slot to instances and put an alist of "slots" in them.... or something.
2017-08-09T15:48:27Z eudoxia: wait, which MOP example?
2017-08-09T15:51:02Z eudoxia: I guess I could fake it by surreptitiously giving each slot :class allocation, so PCL won't allocate anything for them, then adding a hidden slot with instance allocation to do the actual storage. then use slot-value-using-class and slot-boundp-using class to do the work
2017-08-09T15:51:13Z Bike: the one in the appendix.
2017-08-09T15:51:27Z Bike: i think that if you're doing this as a demonstration, workarounds like that will just look silly.
2017-08-09T15:51:38Z Bike: there are plenty of other things you could demonstrate.
2017-08-09T15:52:54Z eudoxia: sure, things like abstract classes and singletons can be demonstrated easily
2017-08-09T15:53:31Z eudoxia: this demonstration would be useful, though, even if it's just to delineate the limitations of the MOP
2017-08-09T15:53:48Z eudoxia: anyways, thanks for the help!
2017-08-09T15:53:50Z Bike: there's also https://github.com/hankhero/cl-json/blob/master/src/objects.lisp
2017-08-09T15:54:32Z eudoxia: Bike: you mean the clever usage of slot-missing?
2017-08-09T15:57:47Z Bike: just generally a class where you can add and remove slots
2017-08-09T15:57:47Z Bike: i don't know the implementation details
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2017-08-10T14:50:44Z dougk_: eudoxia: afaiu, slot-exists-p-using-class was a somewhat deliberate omission in that you have to be able to compute "all" slots, which is to say, in the end CLOS is actually not able to emulate an object system in which objects accrete slots over time (either as individuals or as a class).
2017-08-10T14:51:40Z dougk_: so you can not implement slots in the sense of Javascript where you can just keep adding random stuff to the bag, via CLOS
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2017-08-10T15:31:30Z whoman: ahh, thats what i thought you meant.. i thought this was possible, it seems so simple, to add slots to individual instances
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2017-08-11T18:46:47Z stassats: that "The value NIL is not of type SB-C::IR2-LVAR" is puzzling
2017-08-11T18:47:18Z stassats: lvar's dest is a cast, then another cast, and then nil, which means the lvar is never annotated
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2017-08-11T18:56:50Z stassats: that second has a :VESTIGIAL-EXIT-LEXENV
2017-08-11T19:01:42Z stassats: so, ok, it can't be deleted due the vestigial-exit-lexenv, but why does it lose the lvar?
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2017-08-12T22:45:42Z jrm: Is there a straightforward way to build a custom core file, so that sbclrc is searched for in ${PREFIX}/etc/ instead of /etc/ ?  I know the environment variable SBCL_HOME can be set and the command line option --sysinit exists.
2017-08-12T22:49:49Z pkhuong: jrm: look at src/code/toplevel.lisp
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2017-08-12T22:50:34Z jrm: Thanks pkhuong :)
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2017-08-17T04:48:36Z 
2017-08-17T04:48:36Z names: ccl-logbot sdemarre intrigue christoph_debian sjl zulu_inuoe luis Shinmera- salva Intensity minion ave1 adlai kini specbot malm Lord_Nightmare Colleen mood drmeister joshe gingerale les jdz abbe angular_mike_ Merv |3b| dim foom leah2 gko xristos brucem fe[nl]ix Blkt nicdev stylewarning p_l lonjil PuercoPop sigjuice mjl swflint hzp jyc__ pchrist
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2017-08-17T10:12:54Z |3b|: what is "wallclock profiling" in sb-sprof?
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2017-08-17T10:16:48Z |3b|: same as :cpu just different method of triggering the samples?
2017-08-17T10:16:53Z jackdaniel: name suggests its about time perceived by the user
2017-08-17T10:17:14Z jackdaniel: wallclock as a clock hanging on a wall
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2017-08-17T10:17:33Z |3b|: yeah, familiar with the term, just not sure how it relates to profiling :)
2017-08-17T10:18:02Z |3b|: or more specifically statistical profiler
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2017-08-17T13:08:00Z jrm: Hi.  For the FreeBSD binaries available on http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html, on what version of FreeBSD were they built?  FreeBSD doesn't guarantee binary compatibility against major versions and there are currently two supported major versions 10.x and 11.x.
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2017-08-17T14:11:27Z jrm: Oh, and on the download table, the cell for DragonFly/X86 should be grey.  DragonFly only supports amd64.
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2017-08-18T02:59:25Z |3b|: https://gist.github.com/3b/2fc0313bf7ddbe786089d76e42b2892c
2017-08-18T03:00:05Z |3b|: does sb-sprof usually do something to filter out sleeping/blocked threads? (or not see them in the first place for some reason?)
2017-08-18T03:10:03Z |3b|: also https://gist.github.com/3b/2fc0313bf7ddbe786089d76e42b2892c#gistcomment-2179383
2017-08-18T03:11:46Z |3b| wonders if the debugger part would be worth adding to sbcl, since it depends on an extra lib from MS
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2017-08-18T04:47:40Z slyrus: broken build :(
2017-08-18T04:47:51Z slyrus:   undefined variable: *SEQUENCE-KEYWORD-INFO*
2017-08-18T04:56:58Z slyrus: putting the new defglobal of *sequence-keyword-info* back in an eval-when clause fixes things
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2017-08-18T16:52:27Z dougk_: is this NEWS entry parseable? " a reentrancy bug in the compiler affecting compilation of  of GF dispatch functions while already in the compiler has been fixed"
2017-08-18T16:52:46Z dougk_: the "has been fixed" at the end bothers me, but that's English for you
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2017-08-18T17:18:54Z whoman: the "of  of" doesnt bother you?
2017-08-18T17:19:15Z whoman: a [reentrancy] bug [..desc..] has been fixed
2017-08-18T17:19:23Z whoman: quite simple structure to me
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2017-08-18T17:28:25Z hlavaty: hi, sbcl build was broken bfc678 to a0c1f9, : undefined variable: *SEQUENCE-KEYWORD-INFO*
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2017-08-18T18:41:02Z pkhuong: dougk_: two sentences? :\
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2017-08-18T20:10:05Z dougk_: pkhuong: different answer: i may not advertise this yet; the problem is worse than i thought :-(
2017-08-18T20:10:27Z dougk_: i merely moved the crash from fasl-dump to register packing
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2017-08-18T20:12:45Z pkhuong: I think that's my cue to part the channel.
2017-08-18T20:13:18Z dougk_: you don't need to; i have a plan of attack
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2017-08-20T00:51:28Z scymtym: for dotted lists in application forms like (cons 1 . 2) we produce an error from within the compiler. does this look ok as a fix: http://paste.lisp.org/display/353484 ?
2017-08-20T01:23:25Z joshe: oh boy, another openbsd security feature to work around in sbcl
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2017-08-21T19:54:08Z flip214: does anybody else see 1.3.20.123.master.3-55ef2a710 (or similar) go OOM with hunchentoot?
2017-08-21T19:55:09Z flip214: swank reports "Could not create a new thread.", sbcl says "mmap: not enough memory available", but there are only 9 pthreads active.
2017-08-21T19:55:47Z flip214: and I can reproduce with manual reloading in the browser (sometimes), too, so it's not really a high-load scenario only
2017-08-21T20:34:34Z flip214: Can I ask for the thread_control_stack_size from lisp?
2017-08-21T20:35:32Z flip214: hmmm, is at the default of 2M...
2017-08-21T20:44:29Z flip214: seems to be some glibc logic that does 64M and 128M mmap()s...
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2017-08-21T22:20:42Z JuanDaugherty: http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/ is broken
2017-08-21T22:21:00Z JuanDaugherty: (on http://www.sbcl.org/links.html )
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2017-08-21T23:13:22Z JuanDaugherty: http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl-internals/Implementation-_0028Linux-x86_0029.html#Implementation-_0028Linux-x86_0029 implies thread exit is a stop the world event
2017-08-21T23:15:08Z stassats: are we reading the same thing? i see no mentions of exiting
2017-08-21T23:16:47Z JuanDaugherty: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Garbage-Collection#7.4
2017-08-21T23:18:54Z JuanDaugherty: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Garbage-Collection rather, where I've assume that the gc it refers to generally does happen
2017-08-21T23:18:59Z JuanDaugherty: *assumed
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2017-08-23T09:11:43Z stassats: hmm, (the fixnum (* (the fixnum x) 2)) on non-x86oids is not optimal
2017-08-23T09:12:32Z stassats: well, on ppc
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2017-08-23T09:22:13Z stassats: (lambda (x) (declare (optimize speed)) (the (unsigned-byte 62) (* (the sb-int:index x) 2))) has trouble on arm64
2017-08-23T09:22:31Z stassats: unsigned-byte 60, even
2017-08-23T09:23:40Z stassats: why though?
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2017-08-23T11:20:00Z stassats: representation selection is playing tricks again
2017-08-23T11:20:11Z stassats: misrepresentation selection
2017-08-23T11:21:30Z stassats: and that causes allocate-vector to be a full call in allocate-vector-with-widetag
2017-08-23T11:25:19Z stassats: i can see ppc and x86-64 differing, but arm64 and x86-64 select different vops
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2017-08-23T11:55:44Z stassats: somehow the type that comes from a known fun definition is different from a manual cast
2017-08-23T11:55:48Z stassats: but only from allocate-vector...
2017-08-23T11:56:26Z stassats: allocate-vector is an assembly routine on arm64 and an ordinary vop on x86-64, but both are vops anyway
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2017-08-23T14:07:29Z stassats`: maybe it's because of modfx or something
2017-08-23T14:09:04Z stassats`: oh, maybe it's the cast elimination thingy for externally-checkable casts
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2017-08-23T14:10:13Z stassats`: right, if i disable cast-externally-checkable-p, representation selection does change
2017-08-23T14:11:23Z stassats`: difficult to solve that
2017-08-23T14:12:29Z stassats`: considering that transforms already mess things up by inserting too much casts, and here there's not enough casts
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2017-08-23T14:15:33Z stassats`: guess it's normally not a problem, since ALLOC-SIGNED-BIGNUM-IN-X will only happen on the error path, but ALLOCATE-VECTOR gets a full call, but not on x86-64..
2017-08-23T14:18:00Z stassats`: looks like it's all about cast-externally-checkable-p here too
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2017-08-23T15:38:31Z attila_lendvai: stassats: not sure if it's related, but there's that thing that (declare (some-type x)) results in different optimizations/notes as (check-type x some-type)
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2017-08-23T16:54:18Z pkhuong: that's because check-type has a restart that assigns a new value.
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2017-08-25T09:15:08Z smokeink: is this a sbcl bug? http://pastecode.ru/83a9c8/
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2017-08-25T09:18:52Z scymtym: smokeink: probably. does this also happen with the master version of sbcl?
2017-08-25T09:19:56Z Xof actually does some sbcl development!
2017-08-25T09:20:03Z Xof: one line patch.  But still, baby steps
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2017-08-25T12:33:17Z stassats: The build seems to have finished successfully, including       18 (out of       18)
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2017-08-25T12:33:17Z stassats: why so much whitespace?
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2017-08-25T12:33:53Z stassats: ok, that's how wc -l on macos works
2017-08-25T12:36:19Z stassats: (throw 'no-such-tag t) segfaults on any x86
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2017-08-25T12:47:18Z stassats: but why
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2017-08-25T13:01:59Z scymtym: stassats: this seems to have started with the "Remove 'word_t' type" commit (or one of the tree commits following it, but that seems less likely)
2017-08-25T13:02:24Z stassats: scymtym: and not "Access a few 'struct thread' slots directly, if that's what they are"?
2017-08-25T13:04:00Z stassats: the first SB-VM:*CURRENT-CATCH-BLOCK* has the value of previous of 90
2017-08-25T13:04:30Z scymtym is checking build logs
2017-08-25T13:06:27Z scymtym: stassats: right, the logs have already been pruned. it is totally possible that the problem has been introduced before the commits i mentioned
2017-08-25T13:08:55Z stassats: 90 is unbound symbol?
2017-08-25T13:10:33Z stassats: no-tls-value-marker-widetag
2017-08-25T13:15:45Z stassats: passed it along
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2017-08-26T09:42:55Z smokeink: hello , the bug i reported yesterday happens in the latest master sbcl as well: http://pastecode.ru/83a9c8/
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2017-08-26T11:57:25Z |3b|: smokeink: 32bit or 64bit?
2017-08-26T11:57:43Z |3b| gets no errors on 64bit linux or windows
2017-08-26T12:00:46Z |3b|: smokeink: also, what does (ql:where-is-system :erudite) return?
2017-08-26T12:02:16Z |3b|: smokeink: might also try running sbcl with --no-sysinit and --no-userinit and see if it still breaks
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2017-08-28T05:28:09Z flip214: stassats: looks like you're the one doing releases for slime; please do a 2.20, so that QL gets to include 0f3459f558bb71daab2416102b99a8ce39947d83.
2017-08-28T05:28:12Z flip214: thanks a lot!
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2017-08-28T11:16:42Z scymtym: stassats: if you have time, could you make a drakma release so that the most recent commit makes it into quicklisp? the combination of drakma and cl+ssl currently in quicklisp does not work w.r.t. :verify
2017-08-28T11:17:31Z scymtym: minion: memo for stassats: if you have time, could you make a drakma release so that the most recent commit makes it into quicklisp? the combination of drakma and cl+ssl currently in quicklisp does not work w.r.t. :verify
2017-08-28T11:17:31Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks.
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2017-08-28T11:46:16Z stassats: if i can remember how to a) make slime releases b) make drakma releases
2017-08-28T11:46:16Z minion: stassats, memo from scymtym: if you have time, could you make a drakma release so that the most recent commit makes it into quicklisp? the combination of drakma and cl+ssl currently in quicklisp does not work w.r.t. :verify
2017-08-28T11:46:55Z scymtym: stassats: thank you
2017-08-28T11:46:58Z stassats: (after having a couple of beers)
2017-08-28T11:48:09Z stassats: quicklisp now fetches github releases, so, that part is easy
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2017-08-28T19:59:07Z vtomole: I'm getting an error when i try to install sbcl "ubuntu@ip-172-31-10-30:~/sbcl-1.3.20$ sh install.sh  install.sh: 13: .: Can't open output/prefix.def"
2017-08-28T19:59:42Z scymtym: vtomole: which commands did you execute before that?
2017-08-28T20:00:03Z vtomole: tar -xvf  sbcl-1.3.20-source.tar.bz2?download
2017-08-28T20:01:35Z scymtym: you have to execute something like sh make.sh --fancy --prefix=/opt/sbcl/ to actually build the system before you can install
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2017-08-28T20:21:38Z oleo: err
2017-08-28T20:21:55Z oleo: vtomole: try tar jxvf sbcl-1.3.20-source.tar.bz2
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2017-08-28T20:22:41Z oleo: oh wait
2017-08-28T20:22:50Z oleo: the other one will work too
2017-08-28T20:24:38Z oleo: what i usually do is: export SBCL_HOME=/usr/lib64/sbcl; sh make.sh --prefix=/usr --fancy --dynamic-space-size=2Gb --xc-host="../sbcl-1.3.20-x86_64/run-sbcl.sh"; cd docs; sh make-doc.sh; cd ../tests; sh run-tests.sh
2017-08-28T20:25:46Z oleo: and if it looks good finally: sh install.sh as root (exporting SBCL_HOME again, and putting in my .bashrc or /etc/profile)
2017-08-28T20:27:52Z oleo: make sure /bin/ed is installed and make sure you have the libfixposix lib installed too (some of the libraries in quicklisp depend on it)
2017-08-28T20:28:04Z oleo: that's how it works here
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2017-08-28T20:35:02Z oleo: actually there are other dependencies too (system side) depending on which system you are you have to have the headers and/or the libs installed, like libffi and gsl for gsll for example
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2017-08-29T09:04:56Z some-user: hello
2017-08-29T09:05:36Z some-user: trying to inspect function in slime with sbcl but getting sb-kernel:%simple-fun-self is undefined
2017-08-29T09:05:59Z some-user: my sbcl version is SBCL 1.3.20 and slime is slime-20170820.1946
2017-08-29T09:06:11Z stassats: slime too old
2017-08-29T09:06:50Z some-user: stassats: which version should i use?
2017-08-29T09:06:56Z stassats: the latest
2017-08-29T09:07:00Z stassats: (duh)
2017-08-29T09:07:45Z some-user: stassats: got it, thanks! :)
2017-08-29T09:07:56Z jackdaniel: some-user: https://github.com/slime/slime
2017-08-29T09:08:49Z stassats: by the way, slime is not versioned by "20170820.1946"
2017-08-29T09:11:08Z some-user: stassats: sorry, but how do i get proper slime version?
2017-08-29T09:11:40Z stassats: C-h v slime-version
2017-08-29T09:12:29Z some-user: stassats: thank you(it says 2.19)
2017-08-29T09:12:58Z stassats: well, we've already established that it's too old
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2017-08-30T01:54:46Z stassats: is more-args-type ever really used? what can it be used for?
2017-08-30T01:56:56Z stassats: i guess just for indicating that :more t is used
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2017-08-30T13:39:28Z haom: hello, is anyone around?
2017-08-30T13:41:48Z oleo: sure
2017-08-30T13:43:01Z haom: i have a possible bug with sbcl's format code, which i'd like to discuss.
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2017-08-30T13:43:15Z oleo: shoot away
2017-08-30T13:44:10Z stassats: if it's related to float formatting then i wouldn't like to discuss
2017-08-30T13:44:56Z haom: ok, this is my situation: i have defined gray streams for rendered characters, using stream-write-char.
2017-08-30T13:45:51Z haom: i can display a rendered character by calling write-char, but it fails when i try to display a rendered char calling format stream "~C".
2017-08-30T13:46:16Z stassats: ~c uses write-char
2017-08-30T13:46:18Z haom: i get (SB-FORMAT::FORMAT-ERROR-AT* "~C" 1 "~S is not of type CHARACTER."
2017-08-30T13:46:24Z haom: i know.
2017-08-30T13:46:35Z stassats: well, it wants characters, true
2017-08-30T13:47:09Z stassats: write-char is going to give you trouble on non-characters as well
2017-08-30T13:47:12Z haom: i have a method that specializes on rendered characers, and write-char accepts that.
2017-08-30T13:47:23Z haom: no, write-char works.
2017-08-30T13:47:29Z stassats: well, it appears to work
2017-08-30T13:47:57Z stassats: it's declared to only accept characters
2017-08-30T13:48:57Z haom: even if the gray stream method specializes on a class "rendered-char"?
2017-08-30T13:49:06Z stassats: even then
2017-08-30T13:49:42Z stassats: thanks for informing that a full call to write-char succeeds, that shouldn't happen
2017-08-30T13:49:51Z haom: so is there a canonical way to use format to display other types of objects other than characters?
2017-08-30T13:50:13Z stassats: ~/display-object-other-than-character/
2017-08-30T13:52:34Z haom: what do you mean?
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2017-08-30T13:52:42Z stassats: clhs ~/
2017-08-30T13:52:42Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ced.htm
2017-08-30T13:54:08Z haom: ok, thanks.
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2017-08-30T14:29:54Z haom: stassats: what about stream-write-string? does that run write-char repeatedly under the hood?
2017-08-30T14:30:31Z stassats: write-string only works on strings, you won't be able to have strings of non-characters
2017-08-30T14:31:04Z stassats: and the default method of stream-write-string does repeatedly call stream-write-char
2017-08-30T14:31:48Z stassats: you'll have to accept that gray streams will only work on characters and integers
2017-08-30T14:32:37Z haom: thats disappointing, I've been using gray streams to print rendered characters and strings for 1-2 years now.
2017-08-30T14:34:57Z haom: the avalable documentation on gray streams never mentions that the second argument can not be specialized on.
2017-08-30T14:35:43Z stassats: this is not about specializing gray stream methods
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2017-08-30T14:36:03Z stassats: this is about write-char or write-byte not accepting mismatched types
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2017-08-30T14:41:02Z haom: ok, if I may ask something else: what do the directives ~A and ~S use under the hood? if I cant use ~C to print rendered chars, can I use ~A or ~S?
2017-08-30T14:41:31Z stassats: as i said, you can't do anything
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2017-08-30T14:44:51Z pkhuong: well. strings are stateful, so there's the old trick of augmenting a closed class with a weak hash table
2017-08-30T14:45:18Z stassats: too heave-weight
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2017-08-30T14:47:02Z stassats: and ~// should work just as well
2017-08-30T14:47:30Z haom: what you are saying is a tiny catastrophe for me, I've been confident that the gray stream docs "STREAM-WRITE-CHAR stream character [Generic Function]" can be interpreted so that the second argument can _also_ be specialized on.
2017-08-30T14:47:34Z haom: but oh well.
2017-08-30T14:47:53Z stassats: well, it can be
2017-08-30T14:47:56Z pkhuong: haom: if your implementation lets you subclass character, I suppose it could be specialised on.
2017-08-30T14:48:02Z stassats: but the standard has no stream-write-char
2017-08-30T14:48:05Z stassats: clhs write-char
2017-08-30T14:48:05Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_cha.htm
2017-08-30T14:48:43Z haom: pkhuong: i'm using sbcl only at the moment.
2017-08-30T14:49:29Z haom: does sbcl allow subclassing character?
2017-08-30T14:49:44Z stassats: no
2017-08-30T14:51:24Z haom: *sigh*
2017-08-30T14:51:30Z haom: okay.
2017-08-30T15:10:41Z haom: ok, well, ~/xyz/ will do.
2017-08-30T15:10:57Z haom: thanks.
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2017-08-31T09:38:16Z Xof: OK, last chance for release-critical emergency regression notices
2017-08-31T09:38:53Z Xof: firing up my squeeze virtual machine...
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2017-08-31T13:10:47Z zulu_inuoe: Hello all. I had a question regarding the SBCL releases. Because of the nature of these things, I want to say ahead of time that I hold absolutely no contempt nor malicious intent, but am asking entirely out of wanting to understand and mayhaps contribute. With that said, on to my real question:
2017-08-31T13:10:47Z zulu_inuoe: What's the process for SBCL releases? I notice that the available releases for each platform are not consistently available, even for very similar platforms, such as x86 and AMD64 variants of the same O.S.. Given that, I assume it's not due to "it not building" on those platforms.
2017-08-31T13:14:45Z zulu_inuoe: I ask this question as a Windows SBCL developer. That platform has been historically less stable than others, and certain versions can have very important fixes or breaks in them. Additionally, that platform is very much more based around binary releases as opposed to source releases. Especially when using SBCL in a script-like environment where I deploy lisp files, not a binary, on the users machine
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2017-08-31T13:17:31Z jackdaniel: zulu_inuoe: you are asking about packaging - I think it's a matter of human effort and trust, namely: you can't let *anyone* build for Windows and publish as the official binary for obvious reasons, and building on 8 or so platforms x 8 or so architectures requires huge effort
2017-08-31T13:18:20Z Xof: it's not due to it not building, right
2017-08-31T13:18:25Z jackdaniel: also, for distributions (not very much revelant to Windows though) it is a system package maintainer job to update the packages, binaries on website are more-or-less a bonus
2017-08-31T13:18:57Z Xof: my take is: the release is the source code.  I make the default download from sourceforge, for all OSes, the source code
2017-08-31T13:19:22Z Xof: in doing a release, I have to build at least one binary, to run tests on the current system.  I am happy to upload that binary
2017-08-31T13:20:23Z Xof: I do not want to spend time or energy building, testing and uploading other binaries, when a large part of the point of SBCL is that it is straightforward for users to build it themselves
2017-08-31T13:20:58Z zulu_inuoe: jackdaniel: Well, first I wanted to get an idea of how those releases get on the official sbcl page before suggesting or pursuing anything
2017-08-31T13:21:44Z zulu_inuoe: Xof: I understand. That makes sense
2017-08-31T13:26:35Z zulu_inuoe: Thank you. That was easy enough to understand. I think I will be pursuing adding SBCL to my build server then, and consuming binaries from there
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2017-08-31T13:41:05Z Xof: let us know if this causes substantial problems
2017-08-31T13:41:22Z Xof: I'm not sure what we'd do about it if it does, but even having that information would be good
2017-08-31T13:48:31Z zulu_inuoe: Xof: Well, I try to be reserved, but it wouldn't be a bad idea in the future to have build bots configured to at least the more populat platforms. Binaries would be a side-effect of that. However, that's to do with a lot of things I am not at all familiar with, such as who does what, who owns what, and what resources (hardware) are available in the SBCL team, as it were
2017-08-31T13:48:31Z zulu_inuoe: The biggest thing about binary releases on Windows provided by SBCL official is they have a high trust and convenience factor for the users of SBCL. But it does at a cost to SBCL itself, both in build times and downloads (I have no idea who pays for hosting and such)
2017-08-31T13:49:59Z zulu_inuoe: I think a better approach is to get a system working. If it works and works well, you'll hear about it and maybe it gets integrated. If it does badly and fades into nothing, it didn't cost any important people any time or effort
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2017-08-31T14:05:25Z Xof: we have (some) buildbots; I'm not all that comfortable uploading their artifacts for all to download
2017-08-31T14:05:43Z Xof: and yes, everything is done on volunteer or borrowed-employer time
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2017-08-31T17:42:45Z jackdaniel: carried from #lisp:  (destructuring-bind (foo nil bar) (list 1 2 3) (cons foo bar)) works on SBCL, treating nil basically as "ignore" - behavior unique to SBCL - is it a bug, or intentionally put there?
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2017-08-31T17:51:15Z scymtym: jackdaniel: i can imagine that this is an unintended consequence of the lambda list parser rewrite some time ago. changing (atom …) to (not (listp …)) in one place changes the behavior from "ignore" to "match empty list". is there a definitive answer regarding which behavior is mandated by the spec?
2017-08-31T17:51:53Z scymtym: (the old lambda list parser and destructuring-bind matcher were much worse)
2017-08-31T17:57:07Z |3b|: it is incorrect by my reading of the spec
2017-08-31T17:57:25Z |3b|: the lambda lists don't have the same shape
2017-08-31T17:57:51Z |3b|: (and if it is treated as a symbol rather than a list, it is binding (or failing to bind) a value to the constant NIL)
2017-08-31T17:58:28Z |3b|: so by either interpretation of NIL it looks wrong to me
2017-08-31T17:59:57Z sjl: relevant sections of the spec are: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_dda.htm and http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ddaa.htm
2017-08-31T18:01:10Z sjl: like |3b| said, the spec is a bit ambiguous on `nil` -- it could be a list (and match only the empty list) or a symbol (a variable name, which would always be an error)
2017-08-31T18:01:26Z sjl: but neither of those is "match anything & ignore"
2017-08-31T18:03:53Z sjl: treating it as a list and matching exactly the empty list seems like the most useful of the two possible readings of the spec
2017-08-31T18:04:47Z sjl: this is what CCL does, for what it's worth
2017-08-31T18:05:39Z sjl: also ABCL and ECL
2017-08-31T18:08:24Z scymtym: i come to the same conclusion. another way to look at it is the "pattern" production in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_dd.htm . a "pattern" seems to specify the syntax for nested destructuring lambda lists and () clearly matches a pattern with no components
2017-08-31T18:11:20Z scymtym: changing the behavior at least doesn't break the build. running tests
2017-08-31T18:41:05Z scymtym: jackdaniel |3b| sjl: draft: http://paste.lisp.org/display/354825
2017-08-31T18:43:00Z jackdaniel: scymtym: looks good. does it need such a monsterious test?
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2017-08-31T18:48:05Z scymtym: jackdaniel: i thought we didn't have any tests for ds-bind, but now i found one. i will maybe try to merge them
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2017-08-31T19:28:31Z |3b| isn't sure from reading it, is there a test for () not matching non-empty lists?
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2017-08-31T22:50:58Z dougk_: stassats: arm64 fails to build "The variable SB!ASSEM::**CURRENT-SEGMENT** is unbound"
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