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2017-06-16T23:28:43Z names: ccl-logbot jackdani1l Bike specbot minion milanj Posterdati rumbler31 aeth slyrus gko oleo whiteline DGASAU eschatologist nzambe nyef` fiddlerwoaroof zdsjqzrlbo jdz DeadTrickster Intensity dustinm` kini Shinmera Reinisch foom pchrist ebdreger|work myrkraverk xristos lonjil dougk_ malm jyc nicdev flip214 Guest1445 brucem abbe White_Flame jibanes Colleen mood leo_song jsnell carvite p_l |3b| nimiux angular_mike_ sigjuice drmeister dim fjl leah2
2017-06-16T23:28:43Z names: christoph_debian swflint mjl adlai luis jackc Blkt_ fe[nl]ix Lord_Nightmare salva Merv phoe irsol ave1 Ober les PuercoPop
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2017-06-20T00:15:59Z 
2017-06-20T00:15:59Z names: ccl-logbot irsol_ pchrist_ nimiux_ phoe_ White__Flame abbe pkhuong_ jibanes_ jackc_ lacedaemon Blkt DGASAU` Shinmera- minion nyef`` |3b|` specbot foom2 jack_rabbit wildbartty_ Bike ave1 fiddlerwoaroof karswell Merv_ Posterdati mood leo_song carvite p_l |3b| angular_mike_ sigjuice dim fjl christoph_debian swflint mjl adlai luis Lord_Nightmare Merv PuercoPop brucem flip214 nicdev myrkraverk Reinisch Shinmera Intensity gko Colleen lonjil Guest61524 drmeister
2017-06-20T00:15:59Z names: DGASAU whiteline ym slyrus jsnell aeth leah2 nzambe stassats les jyc_ dustinm`_ krkini malm DeadTrickster dougk_ salva jdz
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2017-06-20T16:52:37Z aeth: Is there something that stops SBCL from tracking usage of macros, inline functions, and structs and recompiling those users when the dependency is recompiled?
2017-06-20T16:53:19Z stassats: do that yourself
2017-06-20T16:53:40Z aeth: So it's a flaw in SLIME rather than SBCL?
2017-06-20T16:53:44Z aeth: Possibly.
2017-06-20T16:53:57Z stassats: slime would be the place for that to happen
2017-06-20T16:54:02Z aeth: Okay.
2017-06-20T16:54:07Z aeth: Thanks.
2017-06-20T16:54:08Z stassats: but not by default
2017-06-20T16:54:11Z stassats: it's not a flaw
2017-06-20T16:54:21Z stassats: and slime's xref can recompile all references already
2017-06-20T16:54:56Z aeth: Yes, but in code that revolves around structs, macros, and inline functions, repeated M-x s-r-i-l is annoying.
2017-06-20T16:55:22Z stassats: restarting?
2017-06-20T16:55:27Z aeth: Yes.
2017-06-20T16:55:37Z aeth: Especially with the structs.
2017-06-20T16:56:05Z stassats: well, it's your choice to restart
2017-06-20T16:56:07Z stassats: i don't
2017-06-20T16:58:08Z stassats: http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/11174492567/cross-referencing
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2017-06-20T17:01:43Z aeth: Is there a solution that applies to redefining a widely used struct, though? That seems like a problem that's not even a problem in all CLs.
2017-06-20T17:02:41Z stassats: just combine the above to work on structures
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2017-06-20T17:54:21Z flip214: aeth: if you have an ASDF file with dependencies, simply writing the one with the DEFSTRUCT and re-loading the system should recompile the needed parts, right?
2017-06-20T17:54:31Z flip214: most probably too much, but that shouldn't be a problem.
2017-06-20T18:07:20Z aeth: That works?
2017-06-20T18:07:46Z aeth: Hmm, I wonder what thing breaks things, then, because there is definitely some reason I decided to s-r-i-l before every system reload.
2017-06-20T18:08:03Z Bike: it wouldn't catch a redefinition in the repl.
2017-06-20T18:08:04Z aeth: Possibly package redefinitions?
2017-06-20T18:08:51Z aeth: There is a way to handle some of the package issues (just unintern manually in the package and then switch back out to whatever package I was in) but it seems much faster just to restart SLIME when those things pop up
2017-06-20T18:10:57Z aeth: Bike: Once I get to the point where I'm using structs, I'm no longer using the REPL directly (for most things) and am instead just SLIME-compiling functions/etc. in a source file.
2017-06-20T18:11:18Z aeth: If not done at the file level that might count as redefinition in the REPL? Not sure.
2017-06-20T18:12:25Z Bike: well, asdf only knows about file modification times, is the point
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2017-06-20T18:37:26Z aeth: ah
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2017-06-20T22:21:53Z 
2017-06-20T22:21:53Z names: ccl-logbot flip214_ Merv_ karswell` Shinmera Bike eschatologist Colleen minion scymtym salv0 Posterdati DeadTrickster jdz aeth oleo salva stassats pkhuong les dustinm` fiddlerwoaroof jackdaniel ym irsol pchrist_ nimiux_ phoe_ White_Flame abbe jibanes jackc_ fe[nl]ix Blkt DGASAU` |3b|` specbot foom ave1 mood leo_song carvite p_l angular_mike_ sigjuice dim fjl christoph_debian swflint mjl adlai luis Lord_Nightmare Merv PuercoPop brucem nicdev myrkraverk
2017-06-20T22:21:53Z names: Reinisch Intensity gko lonjil xristos drmeister whiteline slyrus jsnell leah2 nzambe jyc_ krkini malm dougk_
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2017-06-21T20:30:04Z Bike: (let ((x (make-array 1 :element-type 'base-char :initial-contents "x")) (y (make-array 1 :element-type 'base-char :initial-contents "y"))) (write (list x y) :readably t :circle t)) outputs (#A#1=((1) BASE-CHAR . "x") #A((1) BASE-CHAR . "y")) on d74fc0324 which i realize is a few weeks old.
2017-06-21T20:30:32Z Bike: er, wrong output.(#A#1=((1) BASE-CHAR . "x") #A#1#) ie it's the same array twice.
2017-06-21T20:38:50Z Bike: on a2cc604 as well.
2017-06-21T20:40:24Z Bike: i'll file a bug
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2017-06-21T21:11:37Z Bike: it goes away if i remove the dynamic-extent declaration in output-unreadable-array-readably. maybe if you write a compound object with arrays in it, the array gets stored in the circularity table outside of the declared dynamic extent, and something goes wrong?
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2017-06-21T23:54:19Z theethicalegoist: http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/ returns a 500
2017-06-21T23:54:28Z stassats: as it should
2017-06-21T23:55:28Z theethicalegoist: why have a link to something in the sbcl manual if it's just going to return a server error?
2017-06-21T23:55:42Z stassats: to keep you on your toes
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2017-06-21T23:57:07Z theethicalegoist: Maybe you should consider returning a 418 instead
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2017-06-22T00:00:26Z theethicalegoist: is there a good place to start, if I'm interested in understanding sbcl source?
2017-06-22T00:00:49Z stassats: M-. on the thing you're interested in
2017-06-22T00:01:35Z theethicalegoist: (sigh) emacs
2017-06-22T00:02:29Z Bike: stassats: thanks
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2017-06-22T18:19:47Z stassats: the disassembler seems to be borked
2017-06-22T18:20:27Z stassats: maybe it got fixed already
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2017-06-22T18:26:06Z stassats: indeed
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2017-06-22T18:50:43Z stassats: how can (WAIT-ON-SEMAPHORE SEMAPHORE-NOTIFICATION LP-1038034) be Unexpected success and Expected failure at the same time?
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2017-06-22T20:55:49Z quadresce__: What was sb-vm:instance-header-widetag replaced with, if anything?
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2017-06-22T20:57:13Z quadresce__: Just sb-vm:instance-widetag?
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2017-06-22T21:13:47Z stassats: quadresce__: why are you asking?
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2017-06-22T21:17:11Z quadresce__: stassats, because I had code that broke that depended on it
2017-06-22T21:17:52Z stassats: why's your code depending on such internals?
2017-06-22T21:19:06Z quadresce__: because such internal is exported and also because I'm using it to discriminate objects in a sb-vm::map-allocated-objects call
2017-06-22T21:19:53Z stassats: it's exported not for you
2017-06-22T21:20:27Z quadresce__: ok, nix the "is exported" as a reason, then
2017-06-22T21:20:49Z stassats: but typep in map-allocated-objects would give you the same thing
2017-06-22T21:21:07Z quadresce__: fair enough
2017-06-22T21:23:02Z quadresce__: stassats: what would I use to discriminate sb-vm:code-header-widetag with typep?
2017-06-22T21:23:28Z quadresce__: or even sb-vm:funcallable-instance-widetag?
2017-06-22T21:24:57Z quadresce__: all of this is SBCL-low-level hackery inspired alastair. I of course don't expect it to be supported by you folks.
2017-06-22T21:25:42Z stassats: sb-kernel:code-component
2017-06-22T21:25:57Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-06-22T21:26:10Z stassats: well, it won't make your code any more supported
2017-06-22T21:26:52Z quadresce__: not asking for it to be more supported
2017-06-22T21:27:06Z stassats: why not?
2017-06-22T21:27:23Z quadresce__: I don't expect SBCL devs/maintainers to support random things for my application
2017-06-22T21:27:34Z stassats: make them non-random
2017-06-22T21:27:57Z quadresce__: I want a tree shaker, and SBCL devs have already expressed non-interest in building that.
2017-06-22T21:28:05Z stassats: oh yeah
2017-06-22T21:28:05Z quadresce__: "tree shaker" or some similar idea
2017-06-22T21:28:28Z stassats: no tree shaker here
2017-06-22T21:29:04Z quadresce__: wild wild west of open source
2017-06-22T21:30:44Z quadresce__: can't pay anybody, can't get anything i want done :D
2017-06-22T21:31:45Z stassats: each year there's no tree shaker implemented the hard drives get even bigger
2017-06-22T21:31:47Z stassats: more RAM
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2017-06-22T21:32:05Z stassats: so, the strategy is just to never implement it
2017-06-22T21:32:08Z quadresce__: maybe im not optimizing disk space, but stealability
2017-06-22T21:32:29Z stassats: besides, if you want more RAM, the GC is atrocious
2017-06-22T21:34:37Z stassats: huh, is M-. broken?
2017-06-22T21:34:49Z quadresce__: M-. didn't work for code-component, for me
2017-06-22T21:35:27Z stassats: doubt it should
2017-06-22T21:35:31Z stassats: but M-. is in fact broken
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2017-06-22T21:39:20Z stassats: in (defun a () (labels ((b ())) (b ))) A is mislocated
2017-06-22T21:39:23Z stassats: the hell
2017-06-22T21:39:58Z stassats: when did that happen?
2017-06-22T21:41:10Z stassats: very strange
2017-06-22T21:41:26Z stassats: i guess i'll bisect
2017-06-22T21:42:25Z quadresce__: brb
2017-06-22T21:43:03Z stassats: and the form-number is wrong, character-offset is corcet
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2017-06-22T21:52:42Z stassats: ok, apparently, the local function now gets a correct form number
2017-06-22T21:52:54Z stassats: but it's used for the main function for some reason
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2017-06-22T21:56:06Z stassats: because SB-INTROSPECT::DEBUG-INFO-DEBUG-FUNCTION returns bun
2017-06-22T21:56:08Z stassats: k
2017-06-22T21:57:46Z stassats: because SB-DI::FUNCTION-START-PC-OFFSET does
2017-06-22T21:58:55Z stassats: because SB-DI::fun-word-offset does
2017-06-22T22:00:23Z stassats: don't tell me it's broken across all the backends
2017-06-22T22:05:14Z stassats: now to remember what it used to do
2017-06-22T22:09:14Z stassats: ok, i think just need to mask off some other data
2017-06-22T22:12:03Z stassats: but the high bits appear to always be #b100000001100000000001100000011
2017-06-22T22:12:29Z stassats: (sb-kernel:make-lisp-obj #b100000001100000000001100000011) => #<LAYOUT for FUNCTION {20300303}>
2017-06-22T22:12:31Z stassats: riight
2017-06-22T22:13:56Z stassats: as much i suspected, but now i need the constant to mask this off
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2017-06-22T22:15:43Z stassats: (defconstant sb!vm:function-layout (logior (+ immobile-space-start (* 3 256)) instance-pointer-lowtag)) that's a very interesting definition
2017-06-22T22:16:47Z stassats: i guess there's no way around that
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2017-06-22T22:47:59Z stassats: ok, M-. back to being sane
2017-06-22T22:55:34Z stassats: but slime breakage doesn't stop at this, no
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2017-06-23T07:56:07Z ChanServ has set mode +o Xof
2017-06-23T07:59:20Z Xof: it's sbcl freeze announcement day!
2017-06-23T07:59:27Z Xof: can I get a \o/?
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2017-06-23T08:03:37Z jackdaniel: \o\ \o/ /o/
2017-06-23T08:11:25Z Xof: that'll do
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2017-06-23T08:21:48Z flip214:  /o\
2017-06-23T08:21:53Z flip214: oh, sorry, wrong way around.
2017-06-23T08:22:01Z jackdaniel: heheh
2017-06-23T08:24:50Z Xof: the sky is falling!
2017-06-23T08:26:05Z jackdaniel: flip214: revert quickly and hold up the sky
2017-06-23T08:26:25Z flip214: ¯\O/¯
2017-06-23T08:26:34Z flip214: I hope that's enough
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2017-06-23T13:09:53Z stassats: sigh, a test for a thing i fixed a while ago is not failing when i roll back the fix
2017-06-23T13:10:11Z stassats: it doesn't even fail when i test an older revision
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2017-06-23T13:14:51Z stassats: this is great, the revision before the fix doesn't even build
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2017-06-23T13:18:03Z stassats: built it, doesn't fail there either, what was i testing?
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2017-06-23T13:23:49Z stassats: the test from the ticket fails on older sbcl, but not on the current with the fix rolled back, sigh
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2017-06-23T15:15:20Z stassats: ok, bisected, found the culprit, adjusted the test and made a better fix
2017-06-23T15:15:33Z stassats: which also fixes the ARM64 problem from May
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2017-06-24T11:22:07Z stassats: so the callback thing is actually caused by GCC7
2017-06-24T11:22:24Z stassats: is it my first GCC bug or is it still SBCL's fault?
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2017-06-24T11:37:16Z stassats: yeah, gcc is doing some utter nonsense, but still not clear if it's faulty
2017-06-24T11:39:25Z stassats: may be caused by misaligned stack
2017-06-24T11:41:23Z stassats: but it's in foreign code, we do align stuff before calling foreign code
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2017-06-24T11:55:35Z stassats: here's the nonsense GCC produces https://godbolt.org/g/5ZCZLg
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2017-06-24T12:05:06Z stassats: maybe the wrapper doesn't align the stack
2017-06-24T12:22:53Z stassats: Xof: would a fix for callback wrapper alignment be acceptable?
2017-06-24T12:23:08Z stassats: otherwise they're hosed on targets built with gcc-7
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2017-06-24T12:27:33Z stassats: i'd say yes, since it's a simple fix and it's important to get the fix out for the distributions like arch linux
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2017-06-24T12:36:52Z stassats: and good luck reporting bugs to gcc...
2017-06-24T12:37:37Z stassats: their loss
2017-06-24T12:43:11Z stassats: i pushed it
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2017-06-24T13:24:28Z Xof: I would have said "yes" if I'd been paying attention :-)
2017-06-24T13:25:35Z Xof: thank you
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2017-06-24T17:54:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: Is there any way to extend the set of character names?
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2017-06-25T21:42:54Z stassats: i wonder if more of the debug info could be compressed
2017-06-25T21:43:38Z stassats: debug info is the prime target for compression, but compressing it more means encoding it into a single vector
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2017-06-27T09:37:37Z names: swflint christoph_debian fjl dim angular_mike_ p_l carvite leo_song
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2017-06-28T08:38:09Z flip214: having a vector of 20M fixnums - is it reasonable that SORT takes 42 [sic] seconds to sort it?
2017-06-28T08:38:22Z flip214: that is, 42 second if it's already sorted, 41 if it's in reverse order.
2017-06-28T08:40:08Z flip214: sounds like too long for a 2.5GHz machine...
2017-06-28T08:43:05Z Xof: takes 1 second here
2017-06-28T08:43:44Z flip214: http://paste.lisp.org/display/349636
2017-06-28T08:44:00Z flip214: yeah, thought I'm doing something wrong...
2017-06-28T08:44:35Z flip214: but what _can_ I do wrong with that little code?
2017-06-28T08:44:58Z flip214: not adjustable, no fill pointer, a simple vector...
2017-06-28T08:45:37Z Xof: that takes 1 second here too
2017-06-28T08:45:43Z flip214: grmmmpf
2017-06-28T08:46:06Z Xof: hey, wait, no it doesn't
2017-06-28T08:46:27Z Xof: a vector of all zeros takes 1 second
2017-06-28T08:46:36Z Xof: an already-sorted vector takes 17 seconds
2017-06-28T08:47:21Z flip214: but I tried to switch between #'< and #'> (on the same array), so it would've been re-sorted, and still it took ~42 seconds
2017-06-28T08:47:37Z flip214: is already-sorted AND already-reverse-order both a worst case?
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2017-06-28T08:51:32Z Xof: quite possibly
2017-06-28T08:51:41Z flip214: hrmpf
2017-06-28T08:52:34Z Xof: I wonder how this heap is built
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2017-06-28T08:54:39Z flip214: well, initializing with (mod (* 12451399 i) length) makes it need 58 seconds
2017-06-28T08:55:28Z Xof: try initialising with 0
2017-06-28T08:56:36Z flip214: yeah, 2.8 seconds then
2017-06-28T08:56:50Z flip214: with #'< or #'>
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2017-06-28T08:57:47Z Xof: I *think* this is to do with what heapsort does, and that 40 seconds is actually about right
2017-06-28T08:57:48Z flip214: #'>= .... 43 seconds.
2017-06-28T08:58:39Z Xof: yes.  To do a heapsort, you move the biggest element to the front (as part of building a heap), then you put that biggest element at the back, bring a small element to the front, and restore the heap property
2017-06-28T08:58:55Z Xof: if the numbers are all the same (compare as false) restoring the heap property is constant-time
2017-06-28T08:59:04Z Xof: if the numbers are different, restoring the heap property is O(log N)
2017-06-28T08:59:57Z Xof: you can probably save yourself a factor of 3 if you use a (VECTOR T) rather than a (VECTOR FIXNUM)
2017-06-28T09:00:03Z flip214: uhm... setting to ((* 124513 i) 20M) takes 0.667 seconds... so O(N log(N)) would get me 4.8 seconds, assuming that MOD and * take as long as compare and swap
2017-06-28T09:00:23Z Xof: it's not that simple
2017-06-28T09:00:37Z flip214: really? an untyped vector is faster for sorting? but then all the other operations on it get slower...
2017-06-28T09:00:53Z Xof: there's a specialized code path for (VECTOR T)
2017-06-28T09:01:03Z Xof: dating back to sbcl-0.6 days
2017-06-28T09:01:11Z Xof: wnewman liked his (vector t)s
2017-06-28T09:22:24Z flip214: yeah, (vector t) is initially twice as fast... but the sorting time grows faster with the size than with typed vectors
2017-06-28T09:23:05Z flip214: size times 4 means sorting time is 4.7 to 4.8 times longer with a typed vector
2017-06-28T09:23:18Z flip214: for (vector T) it's 5.0 to 5.2
2017-06-28T09:25:51Z flip214: Xof: well, thanks for the tip... not sure how to proceed.
2017-06-28T09:26:09Z flip214: my perl executable initializes _AND_ sorts 20M integers in 13,5 secs.
2017-06-28T09:28:51Z flip214: and python claims 2.1 seconds
2017-06-28T09:29:37Z flip214: well, perl returns a new array, python sorts inline
2017-06-28T09:30:48Z flip214: thank you!
2017-06-28T09:36:51Z Xof:    7    182   5.3    182   5.3   3417 100.0        -  IDENTITY
2017-06-28T09:36:53Z Xof: haha
2017-06-28T09:38:14Z Xof: I would suggest filing a bug
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2017-06-28T10:41:46Z flip214: looks like beach's "Fast, Maintainable, and Portable Sequence Functions filetype" paper would apply, yeah
2017-06-28T10:42:01Z flip214: can't find a public pdf now, though
2017-06-28T10:43:51Z flip214: ah, the ELS proceedings includes a copy.
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2017-06-28T12:24:54Z pkhuong: wrap that sort in a function and get it specialized.
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2017-06-28T13:28:44Z Xof: it'll still only get you to a similar time as the (vector t) case.  (Less, with all the calls to #'identity...)
2017-06-28T13:36:34Z jsnell: or just use stable-sort
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2017-06-28T14:01:47Z Xof: I'm slightly surprised that after all these years I still haven't managed to release sbcl with the wrong version number
2017-06-28T14:01:51Z Xof: feels like an accident waiting to happen
2017-06-28T14:02:39Z Shinmera: Sounds like something that could be automated too.
2017-06-28T14:03:51Z Xof: yeah, except that it will break the first time because my automation will be buggy, and then annoy me the day I want to release 1.4 or 2.0 :-)
2017-06-28T14:10:43Z Xof: speaking of broken automation, argh, I've upgraded things and now emacs is refusing to pgpsign my launchpad mail
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2017-06-28T14:42:13Z stassats: the latest SBCL shaves off 10MB from my app, which is nice
2017-06-28T14:42:37Z stassats: (that's more than 10%)
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2017-06-28T17:44:23Z flip214: #+#.(cl:if (cl:find-package "SB-POSIX") '(and) '(or))
2017-06-28T17:44:33Z flip214: interesting things can be found...
2017-06-28T17:45:23Z flip214: anyone using SBCL_MAKE_PARALLEL on a regular basis?
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2017-06-29T07:32:22Z Shinmera: Trying to build SBCL 1.3.19 on Mint I get linker errors. Am I missing a dependency? https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/655#655
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2017-06-29T10:40:46Z scymtym_: compiling a particular large function that makes heavy use local tail recursion takes 85 seconds in SBCL master. i tried to improve on that in http://paste.lisp.org/display/349688 . does this seem worthwhile?
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2017-06-29T17:35:12Z stassats: combination-implementation-style prevents type derivation
2017-06-29T17:35:40Z stassats: and is such a hack anyway
2017-06-29T17:35:49Z stassats: (and breaks arm64)
2017-06-29T17:46:08Z stassats: the arm64 breakage is incredibly silly, though
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2017-06-29T21:03:29Z |3b|: Shinmera: looks like sbcl problem rather than missing deps, are you building without LDB?
2017-06-29T21:03:37Z Shinmera: Yes.
2017-06-29T21:04:23Z |3b|: ok, complain to someone that traceroot.c looks like it won't build without LDB (it tries to use things that are only included when LDB is active)
2017-06-29T21:05:32Z Shinmera: I'll try to remember to fill a bug ticket tomorrow
2017-06-29T21:05:38Z Shinmera: *file
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2017-06-29T21:13:59Z stassats: scymtym: no (safety 0) please
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2017-06-29T21:42:00Z scymtym: stassats: sure, it's just a draft. the optimization settings are for profiling
2017-06-29T21:42:31Z scymtym: i mainly wanted to ask whether the hoisting idea makes sense
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2017-06-30T11:13:12Z Xach: Hi friends. Can you tell me if http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-06-30/failure-report/spinneret.html#spinneret is due to sbcl, spinneret, or what?
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2017-06-30T11:43:42Z fe[nl]ix: Xach: it's SBCL
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2017-06-30T11:44:23Z fe[nl]ix: Doug changed the interning of symbols so that the symbol-name is now of type (simple-array 'base-char (*)) which conflicts with (SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (*))
2017-06-30T11:44:29Z fe[nl]ix: saves a lot pf space in an image
2017-06-30T11:45:37Z fe[nl]ix: so bad declaration in Spinneret
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2017-06-30T12:00:49Z stassats: and internal symbols have always been base-strings
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2017-06-30T12:02:35Z scymtym: seems to go through FORMAT in this case, but i think doug optimized that as well
2017-06-30T12:02:54Z stassats: yeah, w-o-t-s
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2017-06-30T12:04:18Z Xach: thanks
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2017-06-30T12:14:57Z Xach: Sorry I did not test in time.
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